Unschooling the Pessimist
Kim Musolff
I've been having this problem with my DS (6) for about 2 years now. He
seems very grumpy all the time and has taken on a sort of pessimist attitude
about the world. For example, today DS did not want to go swimming. He
didn't have an option to stay home, because DD (4) was looking forward to
going and we were meeting friends there. There was no one to watch DS while
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.
In the car, he told me that he wished I would kill him, so he could start
his life over. We talked about how horrible his life was, because he "never
gets to do anything fun," and he's "ugly, because his head is shaped funny"
(it's not). I tried to sympathize with him and find out why he thought
these things, but he just said, "It's just how I feel." I asked him what
sort of things he would consider fun (he listed things we already do a
lot). He grumbled the whole way to the pool.
When we got there, DS happily put on his bathing suit, with no mention of
the feelings he had in the car ride. He swam and had a blast. We ended up
staying there for 4 hours! When we got in the car, I asked both kids,
casually "So was that pretty fun? Should we do that again sometime?" Of
course, DS answered, "No, it sucked!" AHHH!
It really bothers me when he thinks his life sucks, because it makes me feel
like I'm doing something wrong. It was actually one of the clues that led
me to unschooling in the first place, because I took it as a sign that what
we were doing wasn't working. It's not like we were a spanking,
inconsiderate family before unschooling. We did use occasional time outs or
taking away of privileges. But generally, I've always considered myself an
AP parent. We've always had pretty open communication.
I just don't know what to do. I feel like the "unschooling" approach would
be to embrace him for who he is. But OTOH, I feel like pessimism isn't who
someone is, it's a clue that someone is not truly happy with themselves or
with their place in the world. How do I help him feel better about
himself? Could our brief encounter with punishment and bedtime/food
limitations really be the cause of all this negative energy? Will it go
away as we get more into the unschooling mindset?
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
seems very grumpy all the time and has taken on a sort of pessimist attitude
about the world. For example, today DS did not want to go swimming. He
didn't have an option to stay home, because DD (4) was looking forward to
going and we were meeting friends there. There was no one to watch DS while
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.
In the car, he told me that he wished I would kill him, so he could start
his life over. We talked about how horrible his life was, because he "never
gets to do anything fun," and he's "ugly, because his head is shaped funny"
(it's not). I tried to sympathize with him and find out why he thought
these things, but he just said, "It's just how I feel." I asked him what
sort of things he would consider fun (he listed things we already do a
lot). He grumbled the whole way to the pool.
When we got there, DS happily put on his bathing suit, with no mention of
the feelings he had in the car ride. He swam and had a blast. We ended up
staying there for 4 hours! When we got in the car, I asked both kids,
casually "So was that pretty fun? Should we do that again sometime?" Of
course, DS answered, "No, it sucked!" AHHH!
It really bothers me when he thinks his life sucks, because it makes me feel
like I'm doing something wrong. It was actually one of the clues that led
me to unschooling in the first place, because I took it as a sign that what
we were doing wasn't working. It's not like we were a spanking,
inconsiderate family before unschooling. We did use occasional time outs or
taking away of privileges. But generally, I've always considered myself an
AP parent. We've always had pretty open communication.
I just don't know what to do. I feel like the "unschooling" approach would
be to embrace him for who he is. But OTOH, I feel like pessimism isn't who
someone is, it's a clue that someone is not truly happy with themselves or
with their place in the world. How do I help him feel better about
himself? Could our brief encounter with punishment and bedtime/food
limitations really be the cause of all this negative energy? Will it go
away as we get more into the unschooling mindset?
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
If I've calculated correctly, your son has only been out of school for about 1 1/2 months.
I'd say he needs more time to deschool. I would keep doing what you're doing--trying to
find the activities that he'll enjoy--keep enlisting his help in that. It could be that even
though he loves to swim and play with friends, the need to choose those activities for
himself is more important right now. My son LOVED to stay at home at that age, maybe
your son really wants to have all of his time to himself--ask him what he wants to do.
Perhaps you could arrange for your daughter to have playdates with friends while you stay
with your son.
One of the consistent features of life with my kids is their desire for choice. My dd has
recently surprised me by requiring a whole new level of choice about things that she just
wasn't aware of enough to care about just two weeks ago. Now the things she was happy
to have me plan for her are making her terribly unhappy because she didn't have a say.
I'm having to adjust, yet again, to a new set of variables--and they do make sense to her.
Come to think of it, my son shifted in his awareness of our calendar about a month ago-
and that had me hopping. I have an overwhelmed feeling right now about it, but trust that
will fade as I get used my new job description!
Joanna
I'd say he needs more time to deschool. I would keep doing what you're doing--trying to
find the activities that he'll enjoy--keep enlisting his help in that. It could be that even
though he loves to swim and play with friends, the need to choose those activities for
himself is more important right now. My son LOVED to stay at home at that age, maybe
your son really wants to have all of his time to himself--ask him what he wants to do.
Perhaps you could arrange for your daughter to have playdates with friends while you stay
with your son.
One of the consistent features of life with my kids is their desire for choice. My dd has
recently surprised me by requiring a whole new level of choice about things that she just
wasn't aware of enough to care about just two weeks ago. Now the things she was happy
to have me plan for her are making her terribly unhappy because she didn't have a say.
I'm having to adjust, yet again, to a new set of variables--and they do make sense to her.
Come to think of it, my son shifted in his awareness of our calendar about a month ago-
and that had me hopping. I have an overwhelmed feeling right now about it, but trust that
will fade as I get used my new job description!
Joanna
--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...> wrote:
>
> I've been having this problem with my DS (6) for about 2 years now. He
> seems very grumpy all the time and has taken on a sort of pessimist attitude
> about the world. For example, today DS did not want to go swimming. He
> didn't have an option to stay home, because DD (4) was looking forward to
> going and we were meeting friends there. There was no one to watch DS while
> we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
> on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.
>
> In the car, he told me that he wished I would kill him, so he could start
> his life over. We talked about how horrible his life was, because he "never
> gets to do anything fun," and he's "ugly, because his head is shaped funny"
> (it's not). I tried to sympathize with him and find out why he thought
> these things, but he just said, "It's just how I feel." I asked him what
> sort of things he would consider fun (he listed things we already do a
> lot). He grumbled the whole way to the pool.
>
> When we got there, DS happily put on his bathing suit, with no mention of
> the feelings he had in the car ride. He swam and had a blast. We ended up
> staying there for 4 hours! When we got in the car, I asked both kids,
> casually "So was that pretty fun? Should we do that again sometime?" Of
> course, DS answered, "No, it sucked!" AHHH!
>
> It really bothers me when he thinks his life sucks, because it makes me feel
> like I'm doing something wrong. It was actually one of the clues that led
> me to unschooling in the first place, because I took it as a sign that what
> we were doing wasn't working. It's not like we were a spanking,
> inconsiderate family before unschooling. We did use occasional time outs or
> taking away of privileges. But generally, I've always considered myself an
> AP parent. We've always had pretty open communication.
>
> I just don't know what to do. I feel like the "unschooling" approach would
> be to embrace him for who he is. But OTOH, I feel like pessimism isn't who
> someone is, it's a clue that someone is not truly happy with themselves or
> with their place in the world. How do I help him feel better about
> himself? Could our brief encounter with punishment and bedtime/food
> limitations really be the cause of all this negative energy? Will it go
> away as we get more into the unschooling mindset?
>
> Kim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Kelli Traaseth
***There was no one to watch DS while
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.***
Hopefully you can try and find other options next time. A way for him not to go. I have a couple of kids who love to be at home. And to make them go with to things when they would rather be home would not be good.
He might change with time, he may not. He may be content to be home more than you or his sister. It can be challenging some times to find a way to find happiness for everyone but it's sure worth the work in the long run.
Yes, there's a balance of give and take but hopefully he doesn't have to do what he doesn't want to do, too much. I would be grumpy too if I had to go out and see people when I didn't feel like it.
I think you'll be amazed at a turn about in attitude when he gets to be in control of what he's doing. It may take some time, but it will happen. :)
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.***
Hopefully you can try and find other options next time. A way for him not to go. I have a couple of kids who love to be at home. And to make them go with to things when they would rather be home would not be good.
He might change with time, he may not. He may be content to be home more than you or his sister. It can be challenging some times to find a way to find happiness for everyone but it's sure worth the work in the long run.
Yes, there's a balance of give and take but hopefully he doesn't have to do what he doesn't want to do, too much. I would be grumpy too if I had to go out and see people when I didn't feel like it.
I think you'll be amazed at a turn about in attitude when he gets to be in control of what he's doing. It may take some time, but it will happen. :)
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/
"There are no ordinary moments." Dan Millman, Peaceful Warrior
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Sandra Dodd
-=-***There was no one to watch DS while
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing
suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.***-=-
Everyone's choices are limited. Part of maturity is that we learn to
be realistic. I don't wake up crying because I'm not living in
England. And I'm too old to move to England now, to immigrate. And
I COULD visit every year, until Keith divorced me for spending that
much money on just me or something. The choices I've made weren't
bad choices, they just couldn't possibly lead everywhere on the
planet all at once.
To couch his choices as
a) go and swim
b) go and not swim
isn't as good as
a) take your Gameboy and books and we'll buy you a new game on the way
b) go and hang out and watch watch their DVDs
c) come out and swim if you want to
Once people start seeing more happiness and generosity, it's
everywhere. When they're used to seeing "have to" and "lame option,"
then that's everywhere.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing
suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.***-=-
Everyone's choices are limited. Part of maturity is that we learn to
be realistic. I don't wake up crying because I'm not living in
England. And I'm too old to move to England now, to immigrate. And
I COULD visit every year, until Keith divorced me for spending that
much money on just me or something. The choices I've made weren't
bad choices, they just couldn't possibly lead everywhere on the
planet all at once.
To couch his choices as
a) go and swim
b) go and not swim
isn't as good as
a) take your Gameboy and books and we'll buy you a new game on the way
b) go and hang out and watch watch their DVDs
c) come out and swim if you want to
Once people start seeing more happiness and generosity, it's
everywhere. When they're used to seeing "have to" and "lame option,"
then that's everywhere.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rod Thomas
I am having a problem coming to terms with this idea, because on occasion I
have taken my son places where he did not want to go on the condition that
he "try" it or at least observe, and if he did not want to participate or
return, that was OK. Many times he did not want to go, but we went and he
usually had a good time and wanted to go back. I often feel it is just
getting him out of his comfort zone, to try something new. We adults
frequently have problems with that also, and know what it is like, and
usually are glad we did.
So I don't know how to blend this with consensual living for our kids.
If it is something that he is already familiar with and isn't interested in,
then I have no problem leaving him home.
At the L&L last year, for instance. He did not leave the room for the first
24 hours but when he finally did, we barely saw him for 3 days. He cant
wait to return this year. In that instance, I did not coerce him at all,
just waited. But if I had nudged, he would have had another entire fun
filled day.
I'm torn,
kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Kelli Traaseth
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Unschooling the Pessimist
***There was no one to watch DS while
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.***
Hopefully you can try and find other options next time. A way for him not to
go. I have a couple of kids who love to be at home. And to make them go with
to things when they would rather be home would not be good.
He might change with time, he may not. He may be content to be home more
than you or his sister. It can be challenging some times to find a way to
find happiness for everyone but it's sure worth the work in the long run.
Yes, there's a balance of give and take but hopefully he doesn't have to do
what he doesn't want to do, too much. I would be grumpy too if I had to go
out and see people when I didn't feel like it.
I think you'll be amazed at a turn about in attitude when he gets to be in
control of what he's doing. It may take some time, but it will happen. :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have taken my son places where he did not want to go on the condition that
he "try" it or at least observe, and if he did not want to participate or
return, that was OK. Many times he did not want to go, but we went and he
usually had a good time and wanted to go back. I often feel it is just
getting him out of his comfort zone, to try something new. We adults
frequently have problems with that also, and know what it is like, and
usually are glad we did.
So I don't know how to blend this with consensual living for our kids.
If it is something that he is already familiar with and isn't interested in,
then I have no problem leaving him home.
At the L&L last year, for instance. He did not leave the room for the first
24 hours but when he finally did, we barely saw him for 3 days. He cant
wait to return this year. In that instance, I did not coerce him at all,
just waited. But if I had nudged, he would have had another entire fun
filled day.
I'm torn,
kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Kelli Traaseth
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Unschooling the Pessimist
***There was no one to watch DS while
we went. I told him he did not have to swim, or even get his bathing suit
on, but he did have to go, because there were no other options.***
Hopefully you can try and find other options next time. A way for him not to
go. I have a couple of kids who love to be at home. And to make them go with
to things when they would rather be home would not be good.
He might change with time, he may not. He may be content to be home more
than you or his sister. It can be challenging some times to find a way to
find happiness for everyone but it's sure worth the work in the long run.
Yes, there's a balance of give and take but hopefully he doesn't have to do
what he doesn't want to do, too much. I would be grumpy too if I had to go
out and see people when I didn't feel like it.
I think you'll be amazed at a turn about in attitude when he gets to be in
control of what he's doing. It may take some time, but it will happen. :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
I've had that same dilemma myself. The way I see it now, though, is that the act of
choosing is so very important, that when possible that's what we ultimately honor. I may
cajole a little, and try to sell an idea, offer ways for it to work, etc., but if they aren't going
for it for whatever reason, I try to honor that.
When someone has done something because of my urging, and it didn't go well, then it
was all my fault--and it was. I decided that I didn't want to be in the position of taking
responsibility for the time they had, so now if someone wants to stay home, they do, even
though it makes me sad sometimes, or I think they would've had a good time.
"In that instance, I did not coerce him at all,
stimulation yet--we've had it go both ways, and when it goes the other way it was sooo
not worth it!
Joanna
choosing is so very important, that when possible that's what we ultimately honor. I may
cajole a little, and try to sell an idea, offer ways for it to work, etc., but if they aren't going
for it for whatever reason, I try to honor that.
When someone has done something because of my urging, and it didn't go well, then it
was all my fault--and it was. I decided that I didn't want to be in the position of taking
responsibility for the time they had, so now if someone wants to stay home, they do, even
though it makes me sad sometimes, or I think they would've had a good time.
"In that instance, I did not coerce him at all,
> just waited. But if I had nudged, he would have had another entire funOr there might have been a disaster because he really wasn't ready to handle all the
> filled day."
stimulation yet--we've had it go both ways, and when it goes the other way it was sooo
not worth it!
Joanna
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...>
wrote:
oldest ds out of school. He was 12 at the time and about halfway
through 7th grade. The last straw for me was when we were headed
home after a parent/teacher conference and my ds said if he had a
gun, he would shoot the prinicipal and then himself. I drove him
straight to the ER because I've had problems with depression myself
and I was very afraid. He was evaluated and I was told he was not a
danger to himself or others. I never took him back to school. This
kind of talk did continue for a while. I don't really know how long.
He did eventually stop talking about wanting to be dead but the
negativity continued for many years. He's 17 now and just recently
started to say he was stupid but stopped himself and instead said he
was smart but just doesn't really apply himself (still thinking in
terms of school, I guess). We did go to counseling but it was family
focused, not focused on him as a problem that needed to be fixed. I
am actually the primary patient and my family comes when they can.
If it's real depression, it won't just go away. However, it may be
that he just needs more time to deschool. My ds used to say that
school took all the pride out of him. He's still recovering from it.
Alysia
wrote:
>now. He
> I've been having this problem with my DS (6) for about 2 years
> seems very grumpy all the time and has taken on a sort ofpessimist attitude
> about the world. <snip> In the car, he told me that he wished Iwould kill him, so he could start
> his life over. We talked about how horrible his life was, becausehe "never
> gets to do anything fun," and he's "ugly, because his head isshaped funny"
> (it's not). I tried to sympathize with him and find out why hethought
> these things, but he just said, "It's just how I feel." I askedhim what
> sort of things he would consider fun (he listed things we alreadydo a
> lot). He grumbled the whole way to the pool.This is exactly the reason I finally bit the bullet and pulled my
oldest ds out of school. He was 12 at the time and about halfway
through 7th grade. The last straw for me was when we were headed
home after a parent/teacher conference and my ds said if he had a
gun, he would shoot the prinicipal and then himself. I drove him
straight to the ER because I've had problems with depression myself
and I was very afraid. He was evaluated and I was told he was not a
danger to himself or others. I never took him back to school. This
kind of talk did continue for a while. I don't really know how long.
He did eventually stop talking about wanting to be dead but the
negativity continued for many years. He's 17 now and just recently
started to say he was stupid but stopped himself and instead said he
was smart but just doesn't really apply himself (still thinking in
terms of school, I guess). We did go to counseling but it was family
focused, not focused on him as a problem that needed to be fixed. I
am actually the primary patient and my family comes when they can.
If it's real depression, it won't just go away. However, it may be
that he just needs more time to deschool. My ds used to say that
school took all the pride out of him. He's still recovering from it.
Alysia
Sandra Dodd
-=-Could our brief encounter with punishment and bedtime/food
limitations really be the cause of all this negative energy?
Not "all."
He has a younger brother. He was only an only for two years, then?
Two and some? That's a biggie. Don't let the younger guy overshadow
his whole life.
-=-Will it go
away as we get more into the unschooling mindset?-=-
Probably.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
limitations really be the cause of all this negative energy?
Not "all."
He has a younger brother. He was only an only for two years, then?
Two and some? That's a biggie. Don't let the younger guy overshadow
his whole life.
-=-Will it go
away as we get more into the unschooling mindset?-=-
Probably.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]