Kim Musolff

I hope this is an appropriate thing to post on this list. My sister is
pregnant and a friend of hers gave her "Baby Wise" to read when the baby
comes. I had only heard about this book before, but last weekend I was at
her house and had the chance to skim it. OMG! It was one of those books
you want to keep reading, only out of morbid curiosity. Do people really
follow this stuff? I only read the FIRST chapter, and was literally arguing
out loud with the book (people were staring) during my sister's party. And
later, when I asked my sister what she thought about it, she said "It's
okay. So far there is nothing that I don't agree with in the book." She
was on chapter 6!!!!

So, first I want to say that reading that book, actually made me see how far
I've come on this unschooling journey. But secondly, what can I do about my
sister???? Normally, I'd be on the phone with her loudly voicing my
opinion. (It took all I had to not say anything to her.) However, I've
heard people on this list complain about how annoying and pointless it is
for relatives to tell them that the way they chose to parent and educate is
wrong. When I was about to send my sister a link to an anti-baby wise site,
I stopped, and thought of you all. I wouldn't want her sending me an
anti-unschooling link (is there even one?) and telling me how my way of
parenting is wrong. But it really bothers me that she is going to put her
poor little newborn on a feeding schedule, and let him cry and cry and cry!


This doesn't really have anything to do with unschooling, I guess. But I
was wondering what anyone's thoughts on this was, since you all can probably
understand my difficult situation more than anyone else.

Thanks,
Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 26, 2008, at 3:00 AM, Kim Musolff wrote:

> I wouldn't want her sending me an
> anti-unschooling link (is there even one?) and telling me how my
> way of
> parenting is wrong.

If she were concerned, how *would* you want her approaching you?

"How about saying "I've been reading a lot about how damaging Baby
Wise is. It seems to work in the short run when kids are easy to
control but has negative effects in the future when things get
harder. I have some books and articles if you'd like to read them
about Baby Wise and about other methods that don't have the same
effect. And if you'd like to talk, I'd love to."

And then drop it. Sew the seed. Let her come to you.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ed Wendell

Just an idea:

I don't know of any book titles to recommend because I didn't read any "how to" baby books 14 years ago, but if there is a great book out there, you could offer one as a gift and just say you came across this book and thought she might enjoy reading it. Wrap it up in special packaging: beautiful gift wrap, bow, etc and make it a gift from your heart. So she will see it that way perhaps?

Never mention you have a concern about the other book - or disagree with the other book as that might put her on the defensive - it was a gift too and not something she chose to purchase and read. But if she thinks the experts say such and such is best she may buy into it just because it's in the only book she has read.

As said "Plant the seeds."

Lisa W.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyla Wolfenstein

i have not introduced myself yet, and i will do that soon - however i wanted to respond to this, as the babywise books/system has come under *wide* scrutiny an there is a web site dedicated to exposing the background and risks - you might just send her the web site, saying you were worried when you saw the book because of everything that is on the site - it is not only counter to everything unschooling, it is downright dangerous - babies have been failure to thrive under this program, and the ezzos (authors) were kicked out of their church for what they were promoting. babywise is the secular version of "preparation for parenting - growing kids god's way"

on the site is a trifold brochure, which you could just send her if the site will be too overwhelming....

there are also a bunch of "anti-ezzo" quotes/testimony from those who wish they had known BEFORE they gave birth...

note: DON't send her to ezzoinfo.com - that is actually the ezzo's site! (i discovered from looking for this link for you!):

http://www.ezzo.info/index.htm

oh, and be careful - depending how indoctrinated she is, there is info in the book about what to say/how to deal with people who warn them about the program - veyr cultish in that way. really isolates new mothers - just what they need!

hope this helps...

Lyla


sister???? Normally, I'd be on the phone with her loudly voicing my
opinion. (It took all I had to not say anything to her.) However, I've
heard people on this list complain about how annoying and pointless it is
for relatives to tell them that the way they chose to parent and educate is
wrong. When I was about to send my sister a link to an anti-baby wise site,
I stopped, and thought of you all. I wouldn't want her sending me an
anti-unschooling link (is there even one?) and telling me how my way of
parenting is wrong. But it really bothers me that she is going to put her
poor little newborn on a feeding schedule, and let him cry and cry and cry!

.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

Have you shared any of your favorite parenting/baby books with her yet?
Or suggested that she check out LaLeche League? If she's serious about
breastfeeding, the practices in Baby Wise won't help her be
successful.

A nice first book -- granted not as radical as like, but a good bridge
from traditional to attachment parenting -- is The Baby Book, by
William Sears who is affiliated with LaLeche League (his wife was a
founder of LLL).

Everyday Blessings, The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting is another good
one, but it is very buddhist in nature, so maybe not great if your
sister is a practicing Christian.

I'll bet you could also find some anti-Baby Wise info online that's
not 'radical' in nature, but still conveys how dangerous Baby Wise (any
book by Ezzo, really) is to children. You might look for stories about
Ezzo and his books in mainstream mags like Time or Parents Magazine.

Sylvia

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Tell her that the author has been excomungated from his church and it is all here:

http://www.ezzo.info/



if she wants christian parenting information to go here:

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/


ang give her The Baby Book by DR. Sears and his wife


http://askdrsears.com/



I would make sure she read those sites before she makes a choice.

Alex

Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...> wrote:
I hope this is an appropriate thing to post on this list. My sister is
pregnant and a friend of hers gave her "Baby Wise" to read when the baby
comes. I had only heard about this book before, but last weekend I was at
her house and had the chance to skim it. OMG! It was one of those books
you want to keep reading, only out of morbid curiosity. Do people really
follow this stuff? I only read the FIRST chapter, and was literally arguing
out loud with the book (people were staring) during my sister's party. And
later, when I asked my sister what she thought about it, she said "It's
okay. So far there is nothing that I don't agree with in the book." She
was on chapter 6!!!!

So, first I want to say that reading that book, actually made me see how far
I've come on this unschooling journey. But secondly, what can I do about my
sister???? Normally, I'd be on the phone with her loudly voicing my
opinion. (It took all I had to not say anything to her.) However, I've
heard people on this list complain about how annoying and pointless it is
for relatives to tell them that the way they chose to parent and educate is
wrong. When I was about to send my sister a link to an anti-baby wise site,
I stopped, and thought of you all. I wouldn't want her sending me an
anti-unschooling link (is there even one?) and telling me how my way of
parenting is wrong. But it really bothers me that she is going to put her
poor little newborn on a feeding schedule, and let him cry and cry and cry!

This doesn't really have anything to do with unschooling, I guess. But I
was wondering what anyone's thoughts on this was, since you all can probably
understand my difficult situation more than anyone else.

Thanks,
Kim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rebecca Boxwell

You could also suggest that she visit the message boards at
mothering.com. There is a lot of info there about parenting, gentle
discipline, food, support. It is really a fabulous community.

--Rebecca



On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:26:02 -0700 (PDT), "BRIAN POLIKOWSKY"
<polykowholsteins@...> said:
> Tell her that the author has been excomungated from his church and it is
> all here:
>
> http://www.ezzo.info/
>
>
>
> if she wants christian parenting information to go here:
>
> http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/
>
>
> ang give her The Baby Book by DR. Sears and his wife
>
>
> http://askdrsears.com/
>
>
>
> I would make sure she read those sites before she makes a choice.
>
> Alex
>
> Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...> wrote:
> I hope this is an appropriate thing to post on this list. My
> sister is
> pregnant and a friend of hers gave her "Baby Wise" to read when the baby
> comes. I had only heard about this book before, but last weekend I was at
> her house and had the chance to skim it. OMG! It was one of those books
> you want to keep reading, only out of morbid curiosity. Do people really
> follow this stuff? I only read the FIRST chapter, and was literally
> arguing
> out loud with the book (people were staring) during my sister's party.
> And
> later, when I asked my sister what she thought about it, she said "It's
> okay. So far there is nothing that I don't agree with in the book." She
> was on chapter 6!!!!
>
> So, first I want to say that reading that book, actually made me see how
> far
> I've come on this unschooling journey. But secondly, what can I do about
> my
> sister???? Normally, I'd be on the phone with her loudly voicing my
> opinion. (It took all I had to not say anything to her.) However, I've
> heard people on this list complain about how annoying and pointless it is
> for relatives to tell them that the way they chose to parent and educate
> is
> wrong. When I was about to send my sister a link to an anti-baby wise
> site,
> I stopped, and thought of you all. I wouldn't want her sending me an
> anti-unschooling link (is there even one?) and telling me how my way of
> parenting is wrong. But it really bothers me that she is going to put her
> poor little newborn on a feeding schedule, and let him cry and cry and
> cry!
>
> This doesn't really have anything to do with unschooling, I guess. But I
> was wondering what anyone's thoughts on this was, since you all can
> probably
> understand my difficult situation more than anyone else.
>
> Thanks,
> Kim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cory and Amy Nelson

>
> A nice first book -- granted not as radical as like, but a good bridge
> from traditional to attachment parenting -- is The Baby Book, by
> William Sears who is affiliated with LaLeche League (his wife was a
> founder of LLL).

Great suggestions so far! Dr. Sears' books always seem to come across
as very non-threatening to mothers who may not be familiar with the
attachment parenting style. Also wanted to add that Sears' wife isn't
one of the LLL founders, although she and her husband are very
popular in LLL circles. The seven women who did found LLL did so 50
years ago, which probably makes her a little too young. :-)


Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99), Cole (9/03/02), Ella (10/29/05) and baby
EDD 8/19/08
http://thissideofsomewhere.blogspot.com/

"We want the spring to come and the winter to pass. We want whoever
to call or not call, a letter, a kiss--we want more and more and then
more of it. But there are moments, walking, when I catch a glimpse of
myself in the window glass, say, the window of the corner video
store, and I'm gripped by a cherishing so deep for my own blowing
hair, chapped face, and unbuttoned coat that I'm speechless: I am
living...." --Marie Howe




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Maybe you could print out all the responses to your question and bind
them with ribbon and give them to her with a copy of a Dr. Sears book!


Holly let me use her computer for a while, so I came right over here.

I remember many road trips from northern New Mexico to Texas
throughout my childhood. Not even part of any of them was as peaceful
and sweet as the trip with Holly yesterday. Partly it's that Keith
is soft and patient from seeing the good results of unschooling, from
living in the middle of a swirl of increasing goodness for all of our
kids' lives. We stopped when we wanted to, Holly ate as much or as
little as she wanted to, she slept or sat or asked us to stop, and
nobody insulted anyone or whined or cried or threatened.

I guess some of my apprehension about driving to Texas had to do with
my unexamined childhood memories.

We've driven to Ansteorra from the Outlands many times (SCA terms for
same highways and general destinations), and that never triggered
those concerns or memories. This, though, was a family driving to see
a relative, and it all welled up inside me, though I didn't know it
until this morning when we all woke up happy in a hotel room.

I'm glad we're not here for an SCA camping event. It's raining.

The longterm results of avoidance of scheduled feedings and
crying-it-out stuff are stunning, and that's what I'm trying to say.
I compare Holly's life to mine sometimes when I don't expect to.
She's ridden thirteen hours in a car with her parents and we were all
happy the whole time.

Nicole

When My youngest was born 5 years ago she was in NICU ...not sure if
this was handed out to all patients ..... we got this 3 page brocure
with the front in big bold letters some title like is babywise
really wise? It stated all the dangers of babywise and suggested a
few other books .

Im not sure where you are but she was born at methodist leboneur.
Just thinking something from a medical establishment might catch her
attention if she is the mainstream type.

Nicole






--- In [email protected], "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...>






wrote:
>
> Maybe you could print out all the responses to your question and
bind
> them with ribbon and give them to her with a copy of a Dr. Sears
book!
>
>
> Holly let me use her computer for a while, so I came right over
here.
>
> I remember many road trips from northern New Mexico to Texas
> throughout my childhood. Not even part of any of them was as
peaceful
> and sweet as the trip with Holly yesterday. Partly it's that
Keith
> is soft and patient from seeing the good results of unschooling,
from
> living in the middle of a swirl of increasing goodness for all of
our
> kids' lives. We stopped when we wanted to, Holly ate as much or as
> little as she wanted to, she slept or sat or asked us to stop, and
> nobody insulted anyone or whined or cried or threatened.
>
> I guess some of my apprehension about driving to Texas had to do
with
> my unexamined childhood memories.
>
> We've driven to Ansteorra from the Outlands many times (SCA terms
for
> same highways and general destinations), and that never triggered
> those concerns or memories. This, though, was a family driving to
see
> a relative, and it all welled up inside me, though I didn't know it
> until this morning when we all woke up happy in a hotel room.
>
> I'm glad we're not here for an SCA camping event. It's raining.
>
> The longterm results of avoidance of scheduled feedings and
> crying-it-out stuff are stunning, and that's what I'm trying to
say.
> I compare Holly's life to mine sometimes when I don't expect to.
> She's ridden thirteen hours in a car with her parents and we were
all
> happy the whole time.
>

Don & Louisa

My mother is a gp and preached to me all the time about a schedule,
feeding, discipline etc (and it scares me to think about all the
patients she's influenced) and with my first baby my husband bought us
"The Baby Book" Thank god.
My first little guy did not thrive the first week ... and some of the
stuff my mum told us to do was WRONG WRONG WRONG. I am so thankful we
had the baby book. But the wildest of all is that as I read it the
first time i did NOT agree with it (probably because of what I'd heard
all my life and other books I was given at the time "the contented
little baby book" to name one), but because it was written in such
a non threatening, non judgmental, take what you want from this book
way I kept reading it.
The short version is that I became a LLL, my third little guy (2.5)
still sleeps with us and we are very attached.
with all our boys.
It would be an EXCELLENT book to give her......
Louisa

Joylyn

I think my favorite book is "25 things every new mother should know" by Martha Sears. It is very quick to read, and really has a simple message--trust yourself.

Joylyn
---- Don & Louisa <clell88@...> wrote:
> My mother is a gp and preached to me all the time about a schedule,
> feeding, discipline etc (and it scares me to think about all the
> patients she's influenced) and with my first baby my husband bought us
> "The Baby Book" Thank god.
> My first little guy did not thrive the first week ... and some of the
> stuff my mum told us to do was WRONG WRONG WRONG. I am so thankful we
> had the baby book. But the wildest of all is that as I read it the
> first time i did NOT agree with it (probably because of what I'd heard
> all my life and other books I was given at the time "the contented
> little baby book" to name one), but because it was written in such
> a non threatening, non judgmental, take what you want from this book
> way I kept reading it.
> The short version is that I became a LLL, my third little guy (2.5)
> still sleeps with us and we are very attached.
> with all our boys.
> It would be an EXCELLENT book to give her......
> Louisa

Jenny Canfield

..And while not a founder, Martha Sears has been a LLL Leader and William
Sears has been on the medical advisory board for LLLI...
-Jenny Canfield

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Cory and Amy Nelson <acnelson@...>
wrote:

> >
> > A nice first book -- granted not as radical as like, but a good bridge
> > from traditional to attachment parenting -- is The Baby Book, by
> > William Sears who is affiliated with LaLeche League (his wife was a
> > founder of LLL).
>
> Great suggestions so far! Dr. Sears' books always seem to come across
> as very non-threatening to mothers who may not be familiar with the
> attachment parenting style. Also wanted to add that Sears' wife isn't
> one of the LLL founders, although she and her husband are very
> popular in LLL circles. The seven women who did found LLL did so 50
> years ago, which probably makes her a little too young. :-)
>
> Amy
> Mama to Accalia (6/14/99), Cole (9/03/02), Ella (10/29/05) and baby
> EDD 8/19/08
> http://thissideofsomewhere.blogspot.com/
>
> "
> .
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie

Kim - I have always really liked the books by Dr. Sears and his wife,
Martha. They have been helpful and supportive when so many books are
like the one you've mentioned. I cannot imagine letting any baby or
child, but especially a newborn, just cry. They cry for a reason. I
have had this debate with many moms who belive that their babies should
immediately conform to their (the mom's) schedules or desires. I tell
them to imagine being torn from their first comfort zones, all warm and
fed and cozy, and thrust into aloneness, hungry and scared and helpless.
Most cannot even imagine themselves in this situation, yet think it okay
to let their little precious babies be there. UGH!!! My little one,
who is 2 and 1/2, is currently on a sleep protest. He's still a nursing
baby and wants to nurse a lot at night. He wakes latel at 2 am and is
up for hours. I do not let him cry, do not leave him to himself.. We
rock, we sing, we nurse, whatever. Poor little things cannot help what
their bodies need at 2 am! I am ready, though, for whatever
developmental phase this is to pass!

Anyway, here is the link to Dr. Sears' site and another site I really
like. I hope your sister melts when she holds her baby the first time
so much that she cannot imagine letting such a tiny little creature cry
it out Get her a couple of the Sears books for a shower gift or
hospital care package. Anyone can write a baby book and call themselves
an expert -- look at Marilu Henner & insert eye-roll here. Good luck
planting those seeds!

Julie

www.kellymom.com <http://www.kellymom.com>

www.askdrsears.com <http://www.askdrsears.com> this one has a
newsletter that's good!







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Musolff

***I hope your sister melts when she holds her baby the first time
so much that she cannot imagine letting such a tiny little creature cry
it out***

This is what I'm hoping for! My sister is so protective of her cats (We
call her the "crazy cat lady!") So we can't really imagine her putting Baby
Wise into action, if she were to be true to herself. The problem is that
her friends and husband highly influence her, and I wouldn't really call any
of them "attached" parents.

Thank you all SO much for your ideas and references! I just bought The
Baby Book and No Cry Sleep Solution for my sister. We'll see how that
goes. And thank you to the several people who referenced Ezzo's website.
Scary stuff!

Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

missalexmissalex

Good, I was just about to suggest the No Cry Sleep Solution. A nice
sling (we liked the Moby Wrap for our newborn) would be a good gift
too. Plus I would make sure she knows what lactation help she has
available to her beforehand. It's important to know that a) hospitals
really push formula, which is not necessary or good for almost all
babies, and b) it's the number of times you nurse, not the length, that
helps you make enough milk. Schedules can limit your ability to feed
your child enough. I'd email her a link to kellymom.com too.

Best wishes!
Alex
mom to Katya 11 mos

>
> Thank you all SO much for your ideas and references! I just bought
The
> Baby Book and No Cry Sleep Solution for my sister. We'll see how that
> goes. And thank you to the several people who referenced Ezzo's
website.
> Scary stuff!
>
> Kim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>