hair colour comments
blue_mountain34
Hi All
I have learned SO much from this list in the past year or so that I've
been reading it....I've appreciated being able to do so quietly, in
the background... :)
Today, dh's parents came to supper. In general, they are not
supportive of our learning-without-school-lifestyle (they are retired
teachers). However, they have respected our wish to stay off of the
topic of our educational choices.
Dd15 is very creative; one way she expresses herself is to experiment
with hair styles and hair colour. She wants to be a hair stylist, and
for several years has done a fantastic job of cutting her own as well
as my hair.
In the past year, she has had red highlights, then teal/blue
highlights and most recently has gone back to all black hair.
Today was the first time that dd's Grandma has seen dd since dd went
back to her natural hair colour. For some reason, Grandma thought it
was okay to comment by saying:
"I like your hair this colour better than the green colour."
Dd was very gracious and simply said thank you. I was so shocked all I
could think to say was, "It was teal."
A little later, Grandma asked if dd was still playing the piano. When
dd answered no, Grandma responded with "tsk, tsk." At the time I was
in another room but still within earshot...
When dh's parents had gone home, I talked with dd saying that she was
very gracious in her responses to Grandma. And I let her know that I
did not agree with what her Grandma had said to her.
I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the time
that the condescending comments were made. My mother in law is not at
all receptive to anything that suggests that she has made a mistake,
or that her comments could have been different...so I'm thinking that
any comment of mine beyond perhaps saying "I LIKE teal" might have
been counterproductive anyway.
And now I realize I could have mentioned that dd is concentrating on
singing rather than piano at the moment...
Any ideas to help me think this through are welcome and appreciated!!
~Marie
I have learned SO much from this list in the past year or so that I've
been reading it....I've appreciated being able to do so quietly, in
the background... :)
Today, dh's parents came to supper. In general, they are not
supportive of our learning-without-school-lifestyle (they are retired
teachers). However, they have respected our wish to stay off of the
topic of our educational choices.
Dd15 is very creative; one way she expresses herself is to experiment
with hair styles and hair colour. She wants to be a hair stylist, and
for several years has done a fantastic job of cutting her own as well
as my hair.
In the past year, she has had red highlights, then teal/blue
highlights and most recently has gone back to all black hair.
Today was the first time that dd's Grandma has seen dd since dd went
back to her natural hair colour. For some reason, Grandma thought it
was okay to comment by saying:
"I like your hair this colour better than the green colour."
Dd was very gracious and simply said thank you. I was so shocked all I
could think to say was, "It was teal."
A little later, Grandma asked if dd was still playing the piano. When
dd answered no, Grandma responded with "tsk, tsk." At the time I was
in another room but still within earshot...
When dh's parents had gone home, I talked with dd saying that she was
very gracious in her responses to Grandma. And I let her know that I
did not agree with what her Grandma had said to her.
I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the time
that the condescending comments were made. My mother in law is not at
all receptive to anything that suggests that she has made a mistake,
or that her comments could have been different...so I'm thinking that
any comment of mine beyond perhaps saying "I LIKE teal" might have
been counterproductive anyway.
And now I realize I could have mentioned that dd is concentrating on
singing rather than piano at the moment...
Any ideas to help me think this through are welcome and appreciated!!
~Marie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:07 AM, blue_mountain34 wrote:
"just the way she is" and they have no more power over her than an
anonymous passerby on the street.
You're giving your MIL power by wanting to counteract her comments.
You're saying "You're too powerful. I need to cut your down or change
you."
way? She's doing what you want to do to her. Do you think you can be
more effective? Is there *anything* she could say, any way she could
say it that would get you to see how wrong you are to let your
daughter to change her hair color or stop taking piano lessons?
The problem is that when we know we're right, it's hard to understand
how someone can't see it too. ;-) And it feels like if we could just
find the right comment, then the light bulb would light for them. She
has *decades* of experience that have helped her to see her way is
right. You can't make change. She can only change if she sees an
advantage in a new way of thinking and wants to change.
If she were being hurtful, you could tell her that unless she behaves
better she can't come back, but I think you could take a few notes
from your daughter's behavior. If you feel like you're not defending
your daughter or giving tacit approval to your MIL's comments by
keeping silent, you could talk about it later and ask about how your
daughter feels when her grandmother says things like that.
If I were your daughter, I'd want you to let the comments go. I could
shrug off the grandmother's comments, but if you jumped in wanting to
turn it into a struggle for power over the right way to think, it
would up the tension in the air and make it uncomfortable.
But if the purpose is to get her to see that your daughter is better
than her grandmother's comments imply, it will be an exercise in
frustration.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the timeIt sounds like your daughter is accepting of her and her comments as
> that the condescending comments were made.
"just the way she is" and they have no more power over her than an
anonymous passerby on the street.
You're giving your MIL power by wanting to counteract her comments.
You're saying "You're too powerful. I need to cut your down or change
you."
> so I'm thinking thatAnd how effective have *her* comments been on getting you to see her
> any comment of mine beyond perhaps saying "I LIKE teal" might have
> been counterproductive anyway.
way? She's doing what you want to do to her. Do you think you can be
more effective? Is there *anything* she could say, any way she could
say it that would get you to see how wrong you are to let your
daughter to change her hair color or stop taking piano lessons?
The problem is that when we know we're right, it's hard to understand
how someone can't see it too. ;-) And it feels like if we could just
find the right comment, then the light bulb would light for them. She
has *decades* of experience that have helped her to see her way is
right. You can't make change. She can only change if she sees an
advantage in a new way of thinking and wants to change.
If she were being hurtful, you could tell her that unless she behaves
better she can't come back, but I think you could take a few notes
from your daughter's behavior. If you feel like you're not defending
your daughter or giving tacit approval to your MIL's comments by
keeping silent, you could talk about it later and ask about how your
daughter feels when her grandmother says things like that.
If I were your daughter, I'd want you to let the comments go. I could
shrug off the grandmother's comments, but if you jumped in wanting to
turn it into a struggle for power over the right way to think, it
would up the tension in the air and make it uncomfortable.
> And now I realize I could have mentioned that dd is concentrating onYou could have as part of a conversation, as you would with a friend.
> singing rather than piano at the moment...
But if the purpose is to get her to see that your daughter is better
than her grandmother's comments imply, it will be an exercise in
frustration.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Barbara Perez
FWIW, I agree with Joyce that your frustrations were better left
unsaid...that it wouldn't get you anywhere to have expressed them. I think
your daughter's thank you was beautiful and wise: She focused on the
positive (however superficial) part of Grandma's comment and chose to ignore
the underlying negative. Making any statement on how you liked the teal
would have been focusing on the negative part of her comment, in my opinion,
and that again, would serve no one. Following your daughter's lead in the
way she handled this particular scenario seems like the best policy to me!
Isn't it wonderful when it works that way?
On the other hand, if Grandma had said something more overtly negative or
hurtful, and particularly if DD seemed to be taken aback by it, that's when
I would step in in her defense. For instance if she still had the teal
highlights and Grandma had said "I liked your other color more than this
green" I might step in with a smile and said "*I* like the TEAL, but more to
the point, (insert DD's name) does or she wouldn't have chosen it!" or
something like that. I find that stating the obvious in a cheerful way
sometimes has a way of reminding people of what should have been obvious to
them in the first place, but wasn't, for some reason! Then again, DD might
also be thinking that Grandma is entitled to her own opinion, even if it's
one different from her own? And I cannot think of a healthier attitude than
that!
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 11:07 PM, blue_mountain34 <blue_mountain34@...>
wrote:
unsaid...that it wouldn't get you anywhere to have expressed them. I think
your daughter's thank you was beautiful and wise: She focused on the
positive (however superficial) part of Grandma's comment and chose to ignore
the underlying negative. Making any statement on how you liked the teal
would have been focusing on the negative part of her comment, in my opinion,
and that again, would serve no one. Following your daughter's lead in the
way she handled this particular scenario seems like the best policy to me!
Isn't it wonderful when it works that way?
On the other hand, if Grandma had said something more overtly negative or
hurtful, and particularly if DD seemed to be taken aback by it, that's when
I would step in in her defense. For instance if she still had the teal
highlights and Grandma had said "I liked your other color more than this
green" I might step in with a smile and said "*I* like the TEAL, but more to
the point, (insert DD's name) does or she wouldn't have chosen it!" or
something like that. I find that stating the obvious in a cheerful way
sometimes has a way of reminding people of what should have been obvious to
them in the first place, but wasn't, for some reason! Then again, DD might
also be thinking that Grandma is entitled to her own opinion, even if it's
one different from her own? And I cannot think of a healthier attitude than
that!
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 11:07 PM, blue_mountain34 <blue_mountain34@...>
wrote:
> Hi All[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I have learned SO much from this list in the past year or so that I've
> been reading it....I've appreciated being able to do so quietly, in
> the background... :)
>
> Today, dh's parents came to supper. In general, they are not
> supportive of our learning-without-school-lifestyle (they are retired
> teachers). However, they have respected our wish to stay off of the
> topic of our educational choices.
>
> Dd15 is very creative; one way she expresses herself is to experiment
> with hair styles and hair colour. She wants to be a hair stylist, and
> for several years has done a fantastic job of cutting her own as well
> as my hair.
>
> In the past year, she has had red highlights, then teal/blue
> highlights and most recently has gone back to all black hair.
>
> Today was the first time that dd's Grandma has seen dd since dd went
> back to her natural hair colour. For some reason, Grandma thought it
> was okay to comment by saying:
>
> "I like your hair this colour better than the green colour."
>
> Dd was very gracious and simply said thank you. I was so shocked all I
> could think to say was, "It was teal."
>
> A little later, Grandma asked if dd was still playing the piano. When
> dd answered no, Grandma responded with "tsk, tsk." At the time I was
> in another room but still within earshot...
>
> When dh's parents had gone home, I talked with dd saying that she was
> very gracious in her responses to Grandma. And I let her know that I
> did not agree with what her Grandma had said to her.
>
> I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the time
> that the condescending comments were made. My mother in law is not at
> all receptive to anything that suggests that she has made a mistake,
> or that her comments could have been different...so I'm thinking that
> any comment of mine beyond perhaps saying "I LIKE teal" might have
> been counterproductive anyway.
>
> And now I realize I could have mentioned that dd is concentrating on
> singing rather than piano at the moment...
>
> Any ideas to help me think this through are welcome and appreciated!!
>
> ~Marie
>
>
>
Gold Standard
>>I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the timeOkay, so, of course, I agree with the fabulous insights of Joyce.
>>that the condescending comments were made.<<
But I might have been tempted to respond to
"...Grandma asked if dd was still playing the piano. When
dd answered no, Grandma responded with "tsk, tsk."
with
"Hey mom, are you still playing that violin (or knitting quilts, or
fill-in-the-blank)?" and give a wink.
It doesn't have to be antagonistic...keeping it light is usually a good way
to go. And she might feel for a moment what the question and judgment
brings, and that could be helpful.
My mom moved in with us 2 1/2 years ago. She has her own space, but we see
her a whole lot, and I walk the balancing act of letting my kids "handle"
her as they see fit, and sharing my own little responses when it seems
helpful. The goal is harmony though, and I think the kids get a whole lot
more by seeing me being gracious with my mother than seeing me respond
spitefully to her. And mostly, she's pretty cool. But there are times when
giving guidelines, information, a nudge, light-hearted responses, etc. have
been useful. And we have lots of conversations processing stuff about her
and her views when we are alone.
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of blue_mountain34
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] hair colour comments
Hi All
I have learned SO much from this list in the past year or so that I've
been reading it....I've appreciated being able to do so quietly, in
the background... :)
Today, dh's parents came to supper. In general, they are not
supportive of our learning-without-school-lifestyle (they are retired
teachers). However, they have respected our wish to stay off of the
topic of our educational choices.
Dd15 is very creative; one way she expresses herself is to experiment
with hair styles and hair colour. She wants to be a hair stylist, and
for several years has done a fantastic job of cutting her own as well
as my hair.
In the past year, she has had red highlights, then teal/blue
highlights and most recently has gone back to all black hair.
Today was the first time that dd's Grandma has seen dd since dd went
back to her natural hair colour. For some reason, Grandma thought it
was okay to comment by saying:
"I like your hair this colour better than the green colour."
Dd was very gracious and simply said thank you. I was so shocked all I
could think to say was, "It was teal."
I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the time
that the condescending comments were made.At the time I was
in another room but still within earshot...
When dh's parents had gone home, I talked with dd saying that she was
very gracious in her responses to Grandma. And I let her know that I
did not agree with what her Grandma had said to her.
I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the time
that the condescending comments were made. My mother in law is not at
all receptive to anything that suggests that she has made a mistake,
or that her comments could have been different...so I'm thinking that
any comment of mine beyond perhaps saying "I LIKE teal" might have
been counterproductive anyway.
And now I realize I could have mentioned that dd is concentrating on
singing rather than piano at the moment...
Any ideas to help me think this through are welcome and appreciated!!
~Marie
Jenny C
> I am wondering what are some things that I could have said at the timePerhaps grandma didn't mean it in a condescending way. I think it's
> that the condescending comments were made. My mother in law is not at
> all receptive to anything that suggests that she has made a mistake,
> or that her comments could have been different...so I'm thinking that
> any comment of mine beyond perhaps saying "I LIKE teal" might have
> been counterproductive anyway.
perfectly acceptable for a grandparent to have an opinion on their
grandchild's hair. It seemed fine enough to say "I like this hair color
better than the green". If the grandma had said "I didn't like the
green color" or had repeatedly chastized your child on her hair color
choice, that would be different. That isn't what she said though. I've
told my daughter that I like her make up better than how she did it
yesterday, or that I like her hair color better now than the last hair
color. It's my personal opinion. I could say nothing about how she
does her hair and make-up or clothing, but I think it's valuable to have
input from others that you love on these things.
I think it's part of being open and honest with our children. If I
don't like a particular style of make-up that my daughter is wearing, I
find it more helpful to say how I did like it, then to say that I don't
like it. It's a more diplomatic way of saying things in a positive
point of reference.
graberamy
<<<It sounds like your daughter is accepting of her and her comments as
"just the way she is" and they have no more power over her than an
anonymous passerby on the street.>>>>
When I was a teenager and in my twenty's if an older person told me they
didn't like my hair (clothes, nose ring, hair color, whatever) I would
have most likely thought of that as a complement! Maybe I still feel
that way...their style is definitely not mine!!
My dd 10 thinks her one grandmother buys her "baby clothes" but is
always very gracious when she receives them. However, they usually
just don't fit quite right... [;)] . She could tell her grandma that
she hates her taste in clothing but sometimes it's better just to keep
our opinions to ourselves.
amy g
iowa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"just the way she is" and they have no more power over her than an
anonymous passerby on the street.>>>>
When I was a teenager and in my twenty's if an older person told me they
didn't like my hair (clothes, nose ring, hair color, whatever) I would
have most likely thought of that as a complement! Maybe I still feel
that way...their style is definitely not mine!!
My dd 10 thinks her one grandmother buys her "baby clothes" but is
always very gracious when she receives them. However, they usually
just don't fit quite right... [;)] . She could tell her grandma that
she hates her taste in clothing but sometimes it's better just to keep
our opinions to ourselves.
amy g
iowa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
blue mountain
~~~If you feel like you're not defending
your daughter or giving tacit approval to your MIL's comments by
keeping silent, you could talk about it later and ask about how your
daughter feels when her grandmother says things like that.
If I were your daughter, I'd want you to let the comments go. I could
shrug off the grandmother' s comments, but if you jumped in wanting to
turn it into a struggle for power over the right way to think, it
would up the tension in the air and make it uncomfortable.~~~
That's
what I was wondering...whether my silence was the best way to help my
daughter, or whether it might have helped to come to her defense in
some way....knowing that many of the things that I could have said
would have had the effect that you mention :)
It's
a relief to hear an objective opinion that letting the comments go
was/is probably the best way to deal with them (similar comments come
up frequently...those ones will not likely be the last!)
Thanks so much for helping me think it through!
~Marie
__________________________________________________________________
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your daughter or giving tacit approval to your MIL's comments by
keeping silent, you could talk about it later and ask about how your
daughter feels when her grandmother says things like that.
If I were your daughter, I'd want you to let the comments go. I could
shrug off the grandmother' s comments, but if you jumped in wanting to
turn it into a struggle for power over the right way to think, it
would up the tension in the air and make it uncomfortable.~~~
That's
what I was wondering...whether my silence was the best way to help my
daughter, or whether it might have helped to come to her defense in
some way....knowing that many of the things that I could have said
would have had the effect that you mention :)
It's
a relief to hear an objective opinion that letting the comments go
was/is probably the best way to deal with them (similar comments come
up frequently...those ones will not likely be the last!)
Thanks so much for helping me think it through!
~Marie
__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
http://www.flickr.com/gift/
blue_mountain34
~~~When I was a teenager and in my twenty's if an older person told me
they
didn't like my hair (clothes, nose ring, hair color, whatever) I would
have most likely thought of that as a complement! Maybe I still feel
that way...their style is definitely not mine!!~~~
That's a very good point, Amy, thanks! :)
they
didn't like my hair (clothes, nose ring, hair color, whatever) I would
have most likely thought of that as a complement! Maybe I still feel
that way...their style is definitely not mine!!~~~
That's a very good point, Amy, thanks! :)
--- In [email protected], "graberamy" <graber@...> wrote:
>
>
> <<<It sounds like your daughter is accepting of her and her comments as
> "just the way she is" and they have no more power over her than an
> anonymous passerby on the street.>>>>
>
> When I was a teenager and in my twenty's if an older person told me they
> didn't like my hair (clothes, nose ring, hair color, whatever) I would
> have most likely thought of that as a complement! Maybe I still feel
> that way...their style is definitely not mine!!
>
> My dd 10 thinks her one grandmother buys her "baby clothes" but is
> always very gracious when she receives them. However, they usually
> just don't fit quite right... [;)] . She could tell her grandma that
> she hates her taste in clothing but sometimes it's better just to keep
> our opinions to ourselves.
>
> amy g
> iowa
>
>
blue_mountain34
--- In [email protected], "Barbara Perez"
<barbara.perez@...> wrote:
way she handled this particular scenario seems like the best policy to me!
Isn't it wonderful when it works that way?~~~
It certainly is!
~~~On the other hand, if Grandma had said something more overtly
negative or
hurtful, and particularly if DD seemed to be taken aback by it, that's
when
I would step in in her defense. For instance if she still had the teal
highlights and Grandma had said "I liked your other color more than this
green" I might step in with a smile and said "*I* like the TEAL, but
more to
the point, (insert DD's name) does or she wouldn't have chosen it!" or
something like that. I find that stating the obvious in a cheerful way
sometimes has a way of reminding people of what should have been
obvious to
them in the first place, but wasn't, for some reason!~~~
I have a harder time with thinking on the spot like this...which is
why I wanted to do some thinking ahead of time :) Thanks for the
suggestion!
~~~ Then again, DD might
also be thinking that Grandma is entitled to her own opinion, even if it's
one different from her own? And I cannot think of a healthier attitude
than
that!~~~
DD and I have had some great conversations about this type of
concept...not having to subscribe to 'group think', etc. <g>
~Marie
<barbara.perez@...> wrote:
>~~~Following your daughter's lead in the
way she handled this particular scenario seems like the best policy to me!
Isn't it wonderful when it works that way?~~~
It certainly is!
~~~On the other hand, if Grandma had said something more overtly
negative or
hurtful, and particularly if DD seemed to be taken aback by it, that's
when
I would step in in her defense. For instance if she still had the teal
highlights and Grandma had said "I liked your other color more than this
green" I might step in with a smile and said "*I* like the TEAL, but
more to
the point, (insert DD's name) does or she wouldn't have chosen it!" or
something like that. I find that stating the obvious in a cheerful way
sometimes has a way of reminding people of what should have been
obvious to
them in the first place, but wasn't, for some reason!~~~
I have a harder time with thinking on the spot like this...which is
why I wanted to do some thinking ahead of time :) Thanks for the
suggestion!
~~~ Then again, DD might
also be thinking that Grandma is entitled to her own opinion, even if it's
one different from her own? And I cannot think of a healthier attitude
than
that!~~~
DD and I have had some great conversations about this type of
concept...not having to subscribe to 'group think', etc. <g>
~Marie
blue_mountain34
--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@...> wrote:
~~~ But I might have been tempted to respond to
>
> "...Grandma asked if dd was still playing the piano. When
> dd answered no, Grandma responded with "tsk, tsk."
>
> with
>
> "Hey mom, are you still playing that violin (or knitting quilts, or
> fill-in-the-blank)?" and give a wink.
>
> It doesn't have to be antagonistic...keeping it light is usually a
good way
> to go. And she might feel for a moment what the question and judgment
> brings, and that could be helpful.~~~
I like this :)
I need practice, though, in order to come to the place where I can
think on the spot like that....I was stuck at --
"Good grief! Allow her (my DD, her granddaughter) the freedom to make
her own choices without shaming her!!" And I wasn't able to think past
that first reaction :/
Learning to move beyond any negative first reactions and to think more
'lightly' in those situations is one of my goals....<g> I'm getting
there...:)
~~~ My mom moved in with us 2 1/2 years ago. She has her own space,
but we see
> her a whole lot, and I walk the balancing act of letting my kids
"handle"
> her as they see fit, and sharing my own little responses when it seems
> helpful. The goal is harmony though, and I think the kids get a
whole lot
> more by seeing me being gracious with my mother than seeing me respond
> spitefully to her. And mostly, she's pretty cool. But there are
times when
> giving guidelines, information, a nudge, light-hearted responses,
etc. have
> been useful. And we have lots of conversations processing stuff
about her
> and her views when we are alone.
>
> Jacki~~~
Thanks for sharing!
~Marie
blue_mountain34
--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
giving this more thought...I'm in the place now though, that, by her
tone and other signals, she was maybe hoping her comments would
prevent/influence DD from colouring her hair blue (or green, or red)
*again* <g>
Thanks for your input!!
~Marie
>Yes, perhaps she did not mean it in a condescending way. I'll be
> Perhaps grandma didn't mean it in a condescending way. I think it's
> perfectly acceptable for a grandparent to have an opinion on their
> grandchild's hair. It seemed fine enough to say "I like this hair color
> better than the green". If the grandma had said "I didn't like the
> green color" or had repeatedly chastized your child on her hair color
> choice, that would be different. That isn't what she said though. I've
> told my daughter that I like her make up better than how she did it
> yesterday, or that I like her hair color better now than the last hair
> color. It's my personal opinion. I could say nothing about how she
> does her hair and make-up or clothing, but I think it's valuable to have
> input from others that you love on these things.
>
> I think it's part of being open and honest with our children. If I
> don't like a particular style of make-up that my daughter is wearing, I
> find it more helpful to say how I did like it, then to say that I don't
> like it. It's a more diplomatic way of saying things in a positive
> point of reference.
giving this more thought...I'm in the place now though, that, by her
tone and other signals, she was maybe hoping her comments would
prevent/influence DD from colouring her hair blue (or green, or red)
*again* <g>
Thanks for your input!!
~Marie
graberamy
I'm in the place now though, that, by her
dye her hair again!! When I say I hopefully not, it's because many
times as a young adult in my life, I made decisions based on just doing
the opposite of what my controlling elders would have wanted me to do!
I don't think this is the reason behind an unschoolers rationale
however!! [:D]
amy g
iowa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> tone and other signals, she was maybe hoping her comments wouldAnd if she's like I was (hopefully not) it will just make her want to
> prevent/influence DD from colouring her hair blue (or green, or red)
> *again* <g>
dye her hair again!! When I say I hopefully not, it's because many
times as a young adult in my life, I made decisions based on just doing
the opposite of what my controlling elders would have wanted me to do!
I don't think this is the reason behind an unschoolers rationale
however!! [:D]
amy g
iowa
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