ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH

The sad thing, for me, is when parents talk about their 9 year olds behavior as early teenager rebellion. As though it is early biology catching up with them, and not a squirming response to being kept pinned under someone's thumb. I've actually heard people say that their 5 year old child is just practicing for when they hit 14. It puts the behavior beyond parental responsibility and onto the shoulder's of the child. Sigh...

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
===========
So it seems. I often receive emails and read articles online promoting
the belief that teenage rebellion is a 'normal' feature of growing up
and hear other parents talking as if it's unavoidable, but that's
total crap. My now 22 year old daughter's teenage years were a joy.

Tell that to most parents though and they think you're being sarcastic. :)

Bob




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna Murphy

--- In [email protected], ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
>
> The sad thing, for me, is when parents talk about their 9 year olds behavior as early
teenager rebellion. As though it is early biology catching up with them, and not a squirming
response to being kept pinned under someone's thumb. I've actually heard people say that
their 5 year old child is just practicing for when they hit 14. It puts the behavior beyond
parental responsibility and onto the shoulder's of the child. Sigh...
>
> Schuyler

Yes! That is the popular thing now--that nine year olds are beginning "pre-puberty" and
now that they are hormonal too, it's all about that! And, of course, when those dreaded
hormones are involved, there's just no reasoning or getting through to them, right?!?

I'm so glad we have a whole different paradigm!

Joanna

Kim H

<<And, of course, when those dreaded
hormones are involved, there's just no reasoning or getting through to them, right?!?>>

I've heard this from friends all through the years of my childs' life and he's only 8! Hormones are blamed for everything that's for sure. I have always felt extremely frustrated with these comments because it's not a reasonable, tangible thing to be discussed and thought about. Abit like the crystals and potions it is not a helpful tool to draw on when we are trying to help our children on an unschooling journey.

Kim






----- Original Message -----
From: Joanna Murphy
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:31 AM
Subject: rebellion was Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: relatives, changes, and why we can unscho


--- In [email protected], ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
>
> The sad thing, for me, is when parents talk about their 9 year olds behavior as early
teenager rebellion. As though it is early biology catching up with them, and not a squirming
response to being kept pinned under someone's thumb. I've actually heard people say that
their 5 year old child is just practicing for when they hit 14. It puts the behavior beyond
parental responsibility and onto the shoulder's of the child. Sigh...
>
> Schuyler

Yes! That is the popular thing now--that nine year olds are beginning "pre-puberty" and
now that they are hormonal too, it's all about that! And, of course, when those dreaded
hormones are involved, there's just no reasoning or getting through to them, right?!?

I'm so glad we have a whole different paradigm!

Joanna





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

" I've actually heard people say that their 5 year old child is just
practicing for when they hit 14. It puts the behavior beyond parental
responsibility and onto the shoulder's of the child. Sigh..."

I think 5 yr olds respond to control in basically the same way that a
teen does. The difference to me is that, just like many other things,
smaller kids display smaller things and bigger kids display bigger
things. Like that old saying about "little kids, little mistakes, big
kids, big mistakes". It's the nature of getting bigger and older. If
you take out the adversarial parenting aspect, you get kids that make
better decisions as they get older, because they were given the chance
to make all those little mistakes without fear and punishment.


I see clearly, when I've made a mistake in regards to handling a
situation with one of my kids, how it was MY behavior that made the
situation worse when it could've been better. I let them know when I've
done that and apologize. Over the years I make fewer mistakes in that,
but still, I'm human. I figure it's good skills to learn and copy for
me and them, knowing when you've made a mistake and fixing it and trying
not to do it again.

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think 5 yr olds respond to control in basically the same way that a
teen does. The difference to me is that, just like many other things,
smaller kids display smaller things and bigger kids display bigger
things. -=-

I think there is an instinct in people to leave at some point. There
comes a time when the outside world is alluring even if home is still
welcoming. I saw it in Kirby, and I'm seeing it in Marty.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

>
> I think there is an instinct in people to leave at some point. There
> comes a time when the outside world is alluring even if home is still
> welcoming. I saw it in Kirby, and I'm seeing it in Marty.
>


That is an interesting way at looking at that. I can definitely see
that in Chamille even though she is 14(as of yesterday), she wants to go
out into the world in bigger ways than I am comfortable with yet. We
are working on finding a way for this to happen. I think travel is
going to be in the near future for this girl, just not sure how to do it
yet.

We are doing a big house rearrange. When I was going through some
things of Chamille's yesterday and I found one of those girl growing up
kind of journals that a friend gave her when she was about 9 or 10. It
didn't have a lot in it, but some things were filled out and answered.
One question was "what is the perfect age?". Her answer was 14, and
that she couldn't wait to be 14 because it was the best age she could
think to be. It was really timely and I shared it with her and tucked
it away into her keepsake box.

If a kid wants to leave home they will find a way to do it. If I'm my
children's partner in that, I get to be involved, not left behind.
Chamille's desire to SEE the world has nothing to do with getting away
from us or rebeling, it's about going and doing and exploring, all those
things that we do for unschooling to work. She is thinking bigger than
I was expecting, but it doesn't surprise me, it feels a little
overwhelming, but I'm working on that.

Ren Allen

~~
Yes! That is the popular thing now--that nine year olds are beginning
"pre-puberty" and
now that they are hormonal too, it's all about that! ~~

Well then, I have three children who should be rebelling right now as
Sierra is going to be 11 in a couple of weeks! Dang, maybe I should
let my kids know they aren't being very good teens and
pre-teens...skipping out on all that rebellion stuff. They're just way
too enjoyable. I guess I'm supposed to be dreading this stage. Ah
well, I guess we'll just keep on doing what we're doing...it's so much
more fun and all.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

~~I think there is an instinct in people to leave at some point. There
comes a time when the outside world is alluring even if home is still
welcoming. ~~

Trevor too.
He's making plans to move out this summer. Has nothing to do with not
wanting to be at home and has everything to do with wanting new
experiences and to expand his world.

We have great talks about it all. He is actually having bittersweet
feelings about the whole thing...looking forward to moving out and
excited but also sad about being away from his family.

I think it's pretty natural to want to create one's own space in this
world at some point.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Joylyn

I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise me until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself.

Now,they weren't really serious. They were mostly serious. I think what they wanted to say was that they wanted me to become an independent adult. But that was not the message I got. I certainly got the message that I was not welcome or wanted after 18. I moved out when I was 18 1/2, but moved back in after the death of my best friend when I was 23. I stayed about four months, it was horrible. I moved out and now I can barely live with them for a weekend. How sad.

I, on the other hand, tell my girls I will always be there for them. Alexx used to say she was going to move out but only to next house, next door, so she could visit. Janene, when she was nursing, would say she would never ever move out, but later she said maybe but only if she could come home and nurse every night. WhenI explained that she probably wouldn't be nursing when she moved out, she thought I was joking. Not nursing? She, of course, thought she'd nurse forever. (she did wean, and earlier than Alexx).

But anyway, I want my children to know they are welcome to live with me until they are ready to move out, just as they were welcome to share my bed and to nurse until they were ready to move on. And when they do move on, I try to make sure they realize that I will always be here for them, they can always return.

Joylyn
---- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> ~~I think there is an instinct in people to leave at some point. There
> comes a time when the outside world is alluring even if home is still
> welcoming. ~~
>
> Trevor too.
> He's making plans to move out this summer. Has nothing to do with not
> wanting to be at home and has everything to do with wanting new
> experiences and to expand his world.
>
> We have great talks about it all. He is actually having bittersweet
> feelings about the whole thing...looking forward to moving out and
> excited but also sad about being away from his family.
>
> I think it's pretty natural to want to create one's own space in this
> world at some point.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>

Barbara Perez

That was beautiful, Joylyn, thank you for taking the time to write and
post this. I always thought that the "out when you're 18" thing was
cultural. I'm South American and where I come from, it is practically
unheard of for parents to expect or even encourage that kind of
independence/separation. As a result of the cultural expectations
(combined with the economy) most young people continue to live at home
throughout their tertiary education (whether university or vocational
studies, neither of which are residential) and often well into their
twenties. Many don't move out until marriage, and this is seen as
perfectly natural. In fact, until a decade or so ago it was often the
opposite: When my cousin at twenty-six (!) moved out of her parents'
house into a tiny apartment of her own without getting married, there
was some concern among people that first heard about it, that this
meant there have been some sort of problem in the parent-daughter
relationship. My uncle learned to just smile and say "nothing's wrong
between us, we get along fine as ever, she just wants more
independence and privacy, that's all!"
I'm wondering whether, or how, this concept of "pushing them out of
the nest" relates to my earlier questions about teenage "rebellion".
It seems to me that at some subconscious level, it may be easier for
someone who knows they're being "kicked out" so to speak, to start
severing ties earlier on...This is consistent with the cultural
differences I have seen - come to think of it, the "rebellion" thing
doesn't happen nearly as much in the cultures I grew up in, or at
least, it didn't use to happen when I grew up, nearly as much as here.

On 4/7/08, Joylyn <joylyn1@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't
> remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my
> 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise me
> until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself.
>
> Now,they weren't really serious. They were mostly serious. I think what
> they wanted to say was that they wanted me to become an independent adult.
> But that was not the message I got. I certainly got the message that I was
> not welcome or wanted after 18. I moved out when I was 18 1/2, but moved
> back in after the death of my best friend when I was 23. I stayed about four
> months, it was horrible. I moved out and now I can barely live with them for
> a weekend. How sad.
>
> I, on the other hand, tell my girls I will always be there for them. Alexx
> used to say she was going to move out but only to next house, next door, so
> she could visit. Janene, when she was nursing, would say she would never
> ever move out, but later she said maybe but only if she could come home and
> nurse every night. WhenI explained that she probably wouldn't be nursing
> when she moved out, she thought I was joking. Not nursing? She, of course,
> thought she'd nurse forever. (she did wean, and earlier than Alexx).
>
> But anyway, I want my children to know they are welcome to live with me
> until they are ready to move out, just as they were welcome to share my bed
> and to nurse until they were ready to move on. And when they do move on, I
> try to make sure they realize that I will always be here for them, they can
> always return.
>
> Joylyn
> ---- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> > ~~I think there is an instinct in people to leave at some point. There
> > comes a time when the outside world is alluring even if home is still
> > welcoming. ~~
> >
> > Trevor too.
> > He's making plans to move out this summer. Has nothing to do with not
> > wanting to be at home and has everything to do with wanting new
> > experiences and to expand his world.
> >
> > We have great talks about it all. He is actually having bittersweet
> > feelings about the whole thing...looking forward to moving out and
> > excited but also sad about being away from his family.
> >
> > I think it's pretty natural to want to create one's own space in this
> > world at some point.
> >
> > Ren
> > learninginfreedom.com
> >
>
>

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:50 PM, Barbara Perez wrote:

> I'm South American and where I come from, it is practically
> unheard of for parents to expect or even encourage that kind of
> independence/separation

I've been so glad my husband is also from a culture where kids are
welcome to live at home with their parents until they have good reason
to move out. No pressure and not even any subtle hints that "it is
about time." I do think it is cultural - my husband sometimes asks,
"Why the heck is 18 years old such a big deal in this country? It is
like people think everything should change right then." For his
culture, it is more like when a person is ready to move on and live as
an adult, they do it. Often, very often, they stay in their parents'
home until they marry (or even forever if they don't marry). Americans
tend to look down on this - they think it is important for young
adults to live "on their own" before they marry. And maybe it is
generally good for them - I can't tell - too many other variables
involved. But in a household where kids are controlled and have
curfews and rules and all that, I can see that there is a whole lot
more reason for them to need to spend time living on their own,
learning about themselves, then there is for our kids.

Lots of them do seem to get that urge - it seems pretty natural to
want to have the experience of being on their own. But, so far, my
oldest had that urge in a big way and my second (20 yo) doesn't seem
to have it.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Holly and I went to Minnesota for a state conference last fall. In
the hotel there was a computer room and I was in there early on day.
There was a young man from the other end of Mexico (not the guys from
Chihuahua I'm used to). He was twenty-four and was on the other
computer leaving email for his girlfriend in Mexico. He was working
on some contract job that was going to end soon, and was looking
forward to getting home. Americans were bugging him.

We talked a bit about homeschooling, in way of why I was there. He
got excited, but excited in this way: He saw in me a kindred spirit,
someone who wasn't mean to kids. When he knew I had a 21 year old
who had just moved out but who was welcome to come home, he said he
had hardly met any Americans who didn't throw their kids out, and he
thought it was the source of our family problems. He said in Mexico,
parents help their children financially even when they're grown, even
when they move out, and that makes it natural for the children to
help the parents, and siblings.

He was appalled at the way family members treated each other in the U.S.

Sandra

Nancy Machaj

---I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise me until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself. ---

When I was a freshman in High School, I had a boyfriend named Kevin. He was a senior. We only dated for a month or two. His parents had been telling him for years that the day he graduated he was on his own. On May 10, a couple weeks before graduation, he shot himself. He died a week later. Thats the worst case scenario.
No, I guess worse is when teens commit violent acts on others, then themselves.

My husband's parents talk A LOT about how when their kids were little, all they could wait for was for them to grow up and move out. Every year, the family joke is that all the parents want for Christmas is peace and quiet. One of his mother's favorite refrains is "goddamn kids" and she refers to her grandchildren as Indians when they make any noise or run around.

Although they did pay for college or similar for all the kids that wanted to pursue it, it was all with strings attached. My husband isnt one to talk about his emotions or the past much, but he has said on occasion how sad it was to feel unwelcome in his childhood home. Even if there was nothing big or dramatic as a result, I believe that all the times his parents said stuff like that, it chipped away and made his life sadder, and made it harder to believe and trust in his future relationships. He often makes jokes on the premise that our children will grow up to hate us, or rebel or sneak out at night, etc. I guess, thats maybe another result...that kind of treatment makes you accept thats just how relationships are with parents and kids. I think if he *really* thought about it, he'd know thats not what he wants to happen. But he often says he wont hope for things or try too hard, just in case it doesnt work out, so he wont be disappointed. I worry
sometimes that is going to trump his desire to make our marriage and family happy and successful.

My mom used to tell me I couldnt come home or stay home sometimes, when she was mad at me. (I was 16, 17)I'd stay at my dad's or a friend's. Then she would get mad that I didnt call her to tell her where I was. Before I left for college, my dad told me he wasnt going to be my dad anymore. This is because he caught me stealing quarters from his house. I was stealing them because I hated his guts and was really pissed at hime. I had been working in his office all summer before college. He had told me that if I quit smoking cigarettes, he'd match every penny I saved when I left for school. Behind my back, he told my brother that he had no intention of paying me anything, that it was just to get me to quit smoking and save all my money. So I started smoking again and went to his house to steal his money. He caught me and when I told him my brother had told me my dad's plan, all he could say was that it wasnt my brothers business to tell me. Oh, and that he
wasnt going to be my dad anymore because I never lived up to my potential and kept disappointing him.

My parents spent a lot of time telling me that I could be anything I wanted, do anything I set my mind to. But what they really meant is that they thought I could achieve what *they* wanted for me. They always said they would be proud as long as I did my best, unfortunately, they never believed I was actually doing my best. It was a classic catch-22 situation.

No, I wanted to leave home. I wasnt ready for college and in fact, I dropped out/flunked out/quit, but the alternative was living at home with people who were not kind to me, so I did whatever I had to do to stay away. And that included other bad living situations, bad relationships, bad stuff.

I know I've written alot. But I found out about unschooling when I was pregnant with my first baby. It was a revelation to me. I knew pretty much right away that I had to do what it took to get *there*, to unschooling. To mindful parenting, to respect and trust and love. That I couldnt perpetrate on my children the kind of childhood I'd had. My parents said they loved me, but it never felt like love. I had boyfriends who said they loved me, but were not very nice to me and I never felt their love either.

I love my husband and my kids and I feel their love and I cant and wont do anything to ruin that.

Nancy
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joylyn

I was talking about this at LLL tonight. Both women said it's a "white" thing. So, I guess it is cultural.

Joylyn
---- Barbara Perez <barbara.perez@...> wrote:
> That was beautiful, Joylyn, thank you for taking the time to write and
> post this. I always thought that the "out when you're 18" thing was
> cultural. I'm South American and where I come from, it is practically
> unheard of for parents to expect or even encourage that kind of
> independence/separation. As a result of the cultural expectations
> (combined with the economy) most young people continue to live at home
> throughout their tertiary education (whether university or vocational
> studies, neither of which are residential) and often well into their
> twenties. Many don't move out until marriage, and this is seen as
> perfectly natural. In fact, until a decade or so ago it was often the
> opposite: When my cousin at twenty-six (!) moved out of her parents'
> house into a tiny apartment of her own without getting married, there
> was some concern among people that first heard about it, that this
> meant there have been some sort of problem in the parent-daughter
> relationship. My uncle learned to just smile and say "nothing's wrong
> between us, we get along fine as ever, she just wants more
> independence and privacy, that's all!"
> I'm wondering whether, or how, this concept of "pushing them out of
> the nest" relates to my earlier questions about teenage "rebellion".
> It seems to me that at some subconscious level, it may be easier for
> someone who knows they're being "kicked out" so to speak, to start
> severing ties earlier on...This is consistent with the cultural
> differences I have seen - come to think of it, the "rebellion" thing
> doesn't happen nearly as much in the cultures I grew up in, or at
> least, it didn't use to happen when I grew up, nearly as much as here.
>
> On 4/7/08, Joylyn <joylyn1@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't
> > remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my
> > 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise me
> > until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself.
> >
> > Now,they weren't really serious. They were mostly serious. I think what
> > they wanted to say was that they wanted me to become an independent adult.
> > But that was not the message I got. I certainly got the message that I was
> > not welcome or wanted after 18. I moved out when I was 18 1/2, but moved
> > back in after the death of my best friend when I was 23. I stayed about four
> > months, it was horrible. I moved out and now I can barely live with them for
> > a weekend. How sad.
> >
> > I, on the other hand, tell my girls I will always be there for them. Alexx
> > used to say she was going to move out but only to next house, next door, so
> > she could visit. Janene, when she was nursing, would say she would never
> > ever move out, but later she said maybe but only if she could come home and
> > nurse every night. WhenI explained that she probably wouldn't be nursing
> > when she moved out, she thought I was joking. Not nursing? She, of course,
> > thought she'd nurse forever. (she did wean, and earlier than Alexx).
> >
> > But anyway, I want my children to know they are welcome to live with me
> > until they are ready to move out, just as they were welcome to share my bed
> > and to nurse until they were ready to move on. And when they do move on, I
> > try to make sure they realize that I will always be here for them, they can
> > always return.
> >
> > Joylyn
> > ---- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> > > ~~I think there is an instinct in people to leave at some point. There
> > > comes a time when the outside world is alluring even if home is still
> > > welcoming. ~~
> > >
> > > Trevor too.
> > > He's making plans to move out this summer. Has nothing to do with not
> > > wanting to be at home and has everything to do with wanting new
> > > experiences and to expand his world.
> > >
> > > We have great talks about it all. He is actually having bittersweet
> > > feelings about the whole thing...looking forward to moving out and
> > > excited but also sad about being away from his family.
> > >
> > > I think it's pretty natural to want to create one's own space in this
> > > world at some point.
> > >
> > > Ren
> > > learninginfreedom.com
> > >
> >
> >

harmony

>
> ---I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't
> remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my
> 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise
> me until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself. ---


When I had a 17 year old foster boy for a week I asked him what is going to happen at his foster home when he turns 18 "are they going to throw you a party and then kick you out?" He said "yeah, pretty much...but the party is optional"
That is so sad. He was right, no party :(
Harmony

Shannon Foust

I am a foster parent and this is one of my biggest pet-peaves / soap-boxes ---- gggrrrr! If someone is going to do that, PLEASE do not be a foster parent!! Though the system is taxed and in need of families -- it is in need of families who CARE beyond the support they get each month, and who CARE after that support stops. SHEESH! (not talking to any of you I'm sure....just ranting a little :) Shannon

harmony <harmony@...> wrote:

>
> ---I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't
> remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my
> 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise
> me until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself. ---

When I had a 17 year old foster boy for a week I asked him what is going to happen at his foster home when he turns 18 "are they going to throw you a party and then kick you out?" He said "yeah, pretty much...but the party is optional"
That is so sad. He was right, no party :(
Harmony





Shannon
www.myspace.com/soldout641
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1040601130
www.homeschoolblogger.com/soldout841





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-When I was a freshman in High School, I had a boyfriend named
Kevin. He was a senior. We only dated for a month or two. His parents
had been telling him for years that the day he graduated he was on
his own. On May 10, a couple weeks before graduation, he shot
himself. He died a week later. Thats the worst case scenario.
No, I guess worse is when teens commit violent acts on others, then
themselves.-=-

I'm sorry to hear that.

I had two friends commit suicide in 8th and 9th grades (ages 13,
14/15 for non-American-school readers).

One had been my boyfriend, but wasn't right at that time, but we were
very close and still friends. His dad was our art teacher and had
been since elementary school, Florencio Montoya, a silversmith.

http://sandradodd.com/people/charlesmontoya

I still haven't written it up. I'm a little wary of doing so. There
was no one good reason he shot himself, with a hunting rifle, in a
sleeping bag in his bedroom. We know of lots of little ones. And
one rarely spoken is he might've been gay. It was 1968; too soon to
be out about such things, if that was a factor. His dad was a WWII
veteran as were almost all our dads, and gave him his spot at the
cemetery. (One more person from the family can be buried there,
still.)

I'm sure part of why I've been willing to hear people's problems is
because of that. I wish Charles had talked to me (or someone), but
he didn't. I was a fair kid-counsellor when I was little. One of
the best, I guess, in our school, and the other kids knew it, but
what I was doing was really pretty much against school rules. It was
being nosy. It was talking too much. It got me B's and C's in
conduct when I was getting A's in everything else. Interpersonal
intelligence was just being a too-talkative kid, in those days. I
got no credit for fights or public scenes I helped avert, or for
peace I helped make.

When I was teaching I knowingly and purposely asked such kids to help
out when I could see trouble brewing. Within any group of kids,
there are specialities and talents like that that school tends to
ignore completely.

When we had a playgroup, from the time Kirby was a baby to when he
was 13 (started as a LLL babysitting co-op weekly playgroup and
evolved into an unschooling group), Kirby and Sarah Cordova (who was
in swimming lessons with him) were the two we asked to investigate
disputes and calm waters, if they hadn't already noticed and done it
before we asked.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-When I had a 17 year old foster boy for a week I asked him what is
going to happen at his foster home when he turns 18 "are they going
to throw you a party and then kick you out?" He said "yeah, pretty
much...but the party is optional"
That is so sad. He was right, no party :(-=-



I could be wrong, but I think this is another sad after-effect of the
Depression and WWII.

Any able-bodied male who was still home at 18 was a lazy wuss, unless
they owned a big farm and he planned to continue to do exactly what
his father told him to do indefinitely. Then he was an energetic
wuss, I guess.

The early 20th century was not very kind to anyone, was it? (Well,
up to about 1918 some people were having a hell of a party in parts
of the U.S., anyway! Not the recent immigrants who were preparing
food and clothes for and cleaning up after and guarding said parties.)

People who grew up with harsh, resentful parents and became harsh
resentful parents had people like me! I look back and see
generations of harsh resentment. I look the other way and I see my
kids.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am a foster parent and this is one of my biggest pet-peaves /
soap-boxes ---- gggrrrr! If someone is going to do that, PLEASE do
not be a foster parent!! -=-

I don't think she was talking about foster parents, but a state home
(county or whoever was running group homes). (I could be wrong.)
The state does cut off their benefits, though, at 18.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joylyn

My parents were foster parents to like 70 something kids... Some teens, mostly babies.

John was a student of my dad's who was kicked out of his house and lived with us as a foster kid for years, far past 18. In retrospect, I'm not even certain he was in our home as a legit foster kid or just because my dad liked the kid and brogh him home for years. He's still a part of our lives. Not much, because he's distanced himself, but he comes and goes, and is always welcome.

joylyn
---- Shannon Foust <soldout641@...> wrote:
> I am a foster parent and this is one of my biggest pet-peaves / soap-boxes ---- gggrrrr! If someone is going to do that, PLEASE do not be a foster parent!! Though the system is taxed and in need of families -- it is in need of families who CARE beyond the support they get each month, and who CARE after that support stops. SHEESH! (not talking to any of you I'm sure....just ranting a little :) Shannon
>
> harmony <harmony@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > ---I can't remember when my parents started telling me this, but I can't
> > remember not knowing this. They told me, hold on to your seats, that on my
> > 18th birthday, I would find my bags packed on the porch. They would raise
> > me until then, but after that, it was my job to support myself. ---
>
> When I had a 17 year old foster boy for a week I asked him what is going to happen at his foster home when he turns 18 "are they going to throw you a party and then kick you out?" He said "yeah, pretty much...but the party is optional"
> That is so sad. He was right, no party :(
> Harmony
>
>
>
>
>
> Shannon
> www.myspace.com/soldout641
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1040601130
> www.homeschoolblogger.com/soldout841
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Shannon Foust

" People who grew up with harsh, resentful parents and became harsh
resentful parents had people like me! I look back and see
generations of harsh resentment. I look the other way and I see my
kids."


That's so true Sandra....I think most of us are 3rd or 4th generation of that embitterment that happened - and understandably so as times were sooo hard and frustrating, it's just too bad that once times became good again, the fear and bitterness remained. I see the same thing when I look a couple of generations behind me -- a lot of harshness, bitterness, anger, control, fear, estranged relationships, etc. And up until lately, when I've looked in the mirror I've seen remnants of it but tried to hide it really well....except my children noticed because I couldn't hide it 24/7. I REALLY don't want to see that anymore. When I look the other way, I see my children....I see a lot of freedom in the younger ones, and some freedom mixed with some of the other stuff in the older ones. Hopefully, by the time the older ones start their families (probably within the next decade as the oldest is 17), they will know that I am truely FOR them, BELIEVE in them, LOVE them
unconditionally. The younger ones are eating up their new-found freedom....and loving it. The older ones seem a little on edge, like wondering when the bomb is going to drop. I'm sad I created that feeling in them, but hopefully some day soon they will trust me...and hopefully I can remain trustworthy with their feelings and emotions. Wow, that was more than I intended to say. Shannon



Shannon
www.myspace.com/soldout641
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1040601130
www.homeschoolblogger.com/soldout841





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

http://sandradodd.com/rebellion

I forgot I already had a page started on rebellion!

I guess I'll add some of this thread to it in a bit, but there's what came around another time.

Sandra