"I'd hate to fail at this"
Sandra Dodd
I had an e-mail I'm going to paraphrase and leave anonymous. It
doesn't matter who sent it. It could've been anyone.
The question was whether I think someone's not unschooling enough, or
whether someone's kids should be in school.
There was further some question about whether one should be further
along with unschooling, or reading more.
Those are all hard questions. I don't want to have side e-mail about
such things for a couple of reasons. The value of this group is that
people will get different ideas, and one person will pick up on a
nuance that others miss. Also, I don't want to do one-on-one
exchanges because of time and the relative value of writing in
private as opposed to writing in public. If I write something here
and ten families benefit, it was a better use of my time.
The subject was "I'd hate to fail at this." I want to look at that
first.
Not knowing the emotions accompanying the thought that led to the
writing, I'm only guessing. Here are a couple of guesses, though. I
don't need confirmation or denial. It's just something to think
about. Could it be left over school thinking? Could it be
determination to start what one finishes? Might it be that having
declared "we're unschooling" it's self conscious fear of saying
"changed my mind"?
Okay, back to it, going another way. "I'd hate to fail at this."
Assuming one really does want to unschool smoothly and peacefully,
then reading more might or might not help. But what WILL help (and
the only thing that will help) is putting the suggestions people send
into use and seeing how it works.
Some people swear by Birkenstocks. I haven't had a pair I liked. I
like Wolkys, but honestly they look a little like old lady shoes, and
I'm a little like an old lady so I don't really mind. They're
expensive, but I don't wear my shoes out very quickly at all; they'll
last years or the rest of my life. So if in a conversation where
shoe recommendations come through, some of that might be said. It
shouldn't matter who said what, what's going to matter is that you
had more input before deciding yourself what to do. You might not
want either kind. You might have young feet and strong ankles and
can do with flip flops another few years, or some fancy sandals with
heels. We don't even need to know! The questions are asked and
people throw their best ideas onto the table. Take what you like and
leave the rest.
Now...
WHY one is considering unschooling is important. And how the kids
feel about it is important. But we don't need to know here on the
list why and how each family is unschooling. We'll discuss
particulars in general. That's how it works.
I think parenting choices are about the child's growth and learning.
Some children, for some reasons, might do better in school than at
home. Some parents, for lots of reasons, can't unschool. Don't want
to. Try but can't relax and go with the flow. Can't find the flow.
This list exists to help people find the flow. Joyce's site, my ever-
growing collection, people's blogs are all there to help people
figure out what they think and why and what they might want to change
and why, and where they are and where they could be.
Better is better. That's just true. Each little choice or word or
action has the potential to make the next moment better. A journey
of a thousand miles can take fifteen hundred miles if you're not
careful where you step. And you only step in one place at a time,
so choose it thoughtfully and happily, with "getting warm/getting
cold" in mind.
My whole "make the better choice" tool (which came out of an SCA
context, speaking of SCA this morning, which I'm not through doing
yet) is very much like the game of "you're getting warm" and "you're
getting cold." Only you can play it with yourself when you know
where you want to go.
Kirby gave directions to his friend Brett (a.k.a. Holly's boyfriend)
the other day for driving to Austin. There are several ways to drive
to Austin. Kirby was advising Roswell, Fort Stockton, go toward
Fredricksburg and come up on Austin from the SE. That didn't mean
Brett *HAD* to drive that way. It was advice based on accounts of
people having done that and done other things, and Kirby sharing
what, at the moment, he believes is the quickest way to get from our
place to his.
What people are doing on this list is similar to that. People with
older kids who have unschooled are advising people with younger kids
about how we got here, what we wish we'd done differently, what we've
seen other people do that they regretted or that never got them to
unschooling at all.
Don't worry about failing at unschooling as if it's a goal to be
accomplished. Worry about whether your kids are learning and living
in peace.
Sandra
doesn't matter who sent it. It could've been anyone.
The question was whether I think someone's not unschooling enough, or
whether someone's kids should be in school.
There was further some question about whether one should be further
along with unschooling, or reading more.
Those are all hard questions. I don't want to have side e-mail about
such things for a couple of reasons. The value of this group is that
people will get different ideas, and one person will pick up on a
nuance that others miss. Also, I don't want to do one-on-one
exchanges because of time and the relative value of writing in
private as opposed to writing in public. If I write something here
and ten families benefit, it was a better use of my time.
The subject was "I'd hate to fail at this." I want to look at that
first.
Not knowing the emotions accompanying the thought that led to the
writing, I'm only guessing. Here are a couple of guesses, though. I
don't need confirmation or denial. It's just something to think
about. Could it be left over school thinking? Could it be
determination to start what one finishes? Might it be that having
declared "we're unschooling" it's self conscious fear of saying
"changed my mind"?
Okay, back to it, going another way. "I'd hate to fail at this."
Assuming one really does want to unschool smoothly and peacefully,
then reading more might or might not help. But what WILL help (and
the only thing that will help) is putting the suggestions people send
into use and seeing how it works.
Some people swear by Birkenstocks. I haven't had a pair I liked. I
like Wolkys, but honestly they look a little like old lady shoes, and
I'm a little like an old lady so I don't really mind. They're
expensive, but I don't wear my shoes out very quickly at all; they'll
last years or the rest of my life. So if in a conversation where
shoe recommendations come through, some of that might be said. It
shouldn't matter who said what, what's going to matter is that you
had more input before deciding yourself what to do. You might not
want either kind. You might have young feet and strong ankles and
can do with flip flops another few years, or some fancy sandals with
heels. We don't even need to know! The questions are asked and
people throw their best ideas onto the table. Take what you like and
leave the rest.
Now...
WHY one is considering unschooling is important. And how the kids
feel about it is important. But we don't need to know here on the
list why and how each family is unschooling. We'll discuss
particulars in general. That's how it works.
I think parenting choices are about the child's growth and learning.
Some children, for some reasons, might do better in school than at
home. Some parents, for lots of reasons, can't unschool. Don't want
to. Try but can't relax and go with the flow. Can't find the flow.
This list exists to help people find the flow. Joyce's site, my ever-
growing collection, people's blogs are all there to help people
figure out what they think and why and what they might want to change
and why, and where they are and where they could be.
Better is better. That's just true. Each little choice or word or
action has the potential to make the next moment better. A journey
of a thousand miles can take fifteen hundred miles if you're not
careful where you step. And you only step in one place at a time,
so choose it thoughtfully and happily, with "getting warm/getting
cold" in mind.
My whole "make the better choice" tool (which came out of an SCA
context, speaking of SCA this morning, which I'm not through doing
yet) is very much like the game of "you're getting warm" and "you're
getting cold." Only you can play it with yourself when you know
where you want to go.
Kirby gave directions to his friend Brett (a.k.a. Holly's boyfriend)
the other day for driving to Austin. There are several ways to drive
to Austin. Kirby was advising Roswell, Fort Stockton, go toward
Fredricksburg and come up on Austin from the SE. That didn't mean
Brett *HAD* to drive that way. It was advice based on accounts of
people having done that and done other things, and Kirby sharing
what, at the moment, he believes is the quickest way to get from our
place to his.
What people are doing on this list is similar to that. People with
older kids who have unschooled are advising people with younger kids
about how we got here, what we wish we'd done differently, what we've
seen other people do that they regretted or that never got them to
unschooling at all.
Don't worry about failing at unschooling as if it's a goal to be
accomplished. Worry about whether your kids are learning and living
in peace.
Sandra
Barbara Perez
Sandra,
I just wanted to say, it's writing like this that motivated me to join this
list. Inspiring and positive and full of contributions to my life. This
particular topic reminded me of something I read a long time ago about how
maybe it's impossible to fail at learning, because learning just keeps
happening all the time no matter what you do! I wish I could remember where
to give the credit, but what stuck with me was a sense that I was not just
"unschooling my kids", but we are *all* unschoolers. This may be obvious to
many here, particularly the veterans, but it was a good insight for me that
I think might help others. This is why I tend to think of unschooling as
"cooperative life learning" - even if while cooperating different
individuals within the family might take on different roles (i.e. child
discovers an interest, parent facilitates its pursuit) it emphasizes that
aspect of "can't fail this" to me, not in the sense that the person who
emailed it meant it, but because it's literally impossible to fail! I think
one of the best points you raised was that all the reading or discussing in
the world is not what makes a difference, but what you actually do with it
in your interactions with your children (this is obviously my own
interpretation of what you said, what I got from it).
I also wonder if the person who feared "failing at this" was just expressing
a feeling of being overwhelmed by the enormity of the change between their
current or recent situation and the unshcooling lifestyle? If so, I can
identify with that, and perhaps offer some reassurance that even very
positive transitions are still transitions and thus expected to cause some
stress almost by definition. Sure, losses such as divorce and death are
among the top-rated stress causes usually listed, but so are weddings and
births and adoptions, and I would add that for a parent conscientious enough
about their child's education to even be marginally interested in
unschooling, taking the actual leap, particularly if the kids have been
attending school thus far, would be up there too.
As for "you're getting warm/you're getting cold", I find that an extremely
useful guide for keeping the focus on the important stuff, and I plan to use
it! Only wish that this was more often as obvious as it can be sometimes -
wish I could have a thermometer of sorts to gauge how choices stand against
the final goal, if you know what I mean? It's not even just about knowing
where you want to go, IMO, even though that of course is essential, but
sometimes the questions of how to get "there" from "here" are not as clear.
For the times when it's clear though, which are clearly many, I'm sure it'll
be superbly helpful.
I wonder if anyone else has had that feeling of "OK, I *know* where I want
to get, but I"m not sure if this is getting me warmer, right now, or
colder"? And how do you deal with that?
I just wanted to say, it's writing like this that motivated me to join this
list. Inspiring and positive and full of contributions to my life. This
particular topic reminded me of something I read a long time ago about how
maybe it's impossible to fail at learning, because learning just keeps
happening all the time no matter what you do! I wish I could remember where
to give the credit, but what stuck with me was a sense that I was not just
"unschooling my kids", but we are *all* unschoolers. This may be obvious to
many here, particularly the veterans, but it was a good insight for me that
I think might help others. This is why I tend to think of unschooling as
"cooperative life learning" - even if while cooperating different
individuals within the family might take on different roles (i.e. child
discovers an interest, parent facilitates its pursuit) it emphasizes that
aspect of "can't fail this" to me, not in the sense that the person who
emailed it meant it, but because it's literally impossible to fail! I think
one of the best points you raised was that all the reading or discussing in
the world is not what makes a difference, but what you actually do with it
in your interactions with your children (this is obviously my own
interpretation of what you said, what I got from it).
I also wonder if the person who feared "failing at this" was just expressing
a feeling of being overwhelmed by the enormity of the change between their
current or recent situation and the unshcooling lifestyle? If so, I can
identify with that, and perhaps offer some reassurance that even very
positive transitions are still transitions and thus expected to cause some
stress almost by definition. Sure, losses such as divorce and death are
among the top-rated stress causes usually listed, but so are weddings and
births and adoptions, and I would add that for a parent conscientious enough
about their child's education to even be marginally interested in
unschooling, taking the actual leap, particularly if the kids have been
attending school thus far, would be up there too.
As for "you're getting warm/you're getting cold", I find that an extremely
useful guide for keeping the focus on the important stuff, and I plan to use
it! Only wish that this was more often as obvious as it can be sometimes -
wish I could have a thermometer of sorts to gauge how choices stand against
the final goal, if you know what I mean? It's not even just about knowing
where you want to go, IMO, even though that of course is essential, but
sometimes the questions of how to get "there" from "here" are not as clear.
For the times when it's clear though, which are clearly many, I'm sure it'll
be superbly helpful.
I wonder if anyone else has had that feeling of "OK, I *know* where I want
to get, but I"m not sure if this is getting me warmer, right now, or
colder"? And how do you deal with that?
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> I had an e-mail I'm going to paraphrase and leave anonymous. It
> doesn't matter who sent it. It could've been anyone.
>
> The question was whether I think someone's not unschooling enough, or
> whether someone's kids should be in school.
> There was further some question about whether one should be further
> along with unschooling, or reading more.
>
> Those are all hard questions. I don't want to have side e-mail about
> such things for a couple of reasons. The value of this group is that
> people will get different ideas, and one person will pick up on a
> nuance that others miss. Also, I don't want to do one-on-one
> exchanges because of time and the relative value of writing in
> private as opposed to writing in public. If I write something here
> and ten families benefit, it was a better use of my time.
>
> The subject was "I'd hate to fail at this." I want to look at that
> first.
> Not knowing the emotions accompanying the thought that led to the
> writing, I'm only guessing. Here are a couple of guesses, though. I
> don't need confirmation or denial. It's just something to think
> about. Could it be left over school thinking? Could it be
> determination to start what one finishes? Might it be that having
> declared "we're unschooling" it's self conscious fear of saying
> "changed my mind"?
>
> Okay, back to it, going another way. "I'd hate to fail at this."
> Assuming one really does want to unschool smoothly and peacefully,
> then reading more might or might not help. But what WILL help (and
> the only thing that will help) is putting the suggestions people send
> into use and seeing how it works.
>
> Some people swear by Birkenstocks. I haven't had a pair I liked. I
> like Wolkys, but honestly they look a little like old lady shoes, and
> I'm a little like an old lady so I don't really mind. They're
> expensive, but I don't wear my shoes out very quickly at all; they'll
> last years or the rest of my life. So if in a conversation where
> shoe recommendations come through, some of that might be said. It
> shouldn't matter who said what, what's going to matter is that you
> had more input before deciding yourself what to do. You might not
> want either kind. You might have young feet and strong ankles and
> can do with flip flops another few years, or some fancy sandals with
> heels. We don't even need to know! The questions are asked and
> people throw their best ideas onto the table. Take what you like and
> leave the rest.
>
> Now...
> WHY one is considering unschooling is important. And how the kids
> feel about it is important. But we don't need to know here on the
> list why and how each family is unschooling. We'll discuss
> particulars in general. That's how it works.
>
> I think parenting choices are about the child's growth and learning.
> Some children, for some reasons, might do better in school than at
> home. Some parents, for lots of reasons, can't unschool. Don't want
> to. Try but can't relax and go with the flow. Can't find the flow.
>
> This list exists to help people find the flow. Joyce's site, my ever-
> growing collection, people's blogs are all there to help people
> figure out what they think and why and what they might want to change
> and why, and where they are and where they could be.
>
> Better is better. That's just true. Each little choice or word or
> action has the potential to make the next moment better. A journey
> of a thousand miles can take fifteen hundred miles if you're not
> careful where you step. And you only step in one place at a time,
> so choose it thoughtfully and happily, with "getting warm/getting
> cold" in mind.
>
> My whole "make the better choice" tool (which came out of an SCA
> context, speaking of SCA this morning, which I'm not through doing
> yet) is very much like the game of "you're getting warm" and "you're
> getting cold." Only you can play it with yourself when you know
> where you want to go.
>
> Kirby gave directions to his friend Brett (a.k.a. Holly's boyfriend)
> the other day for driving to Austin. There are several ways to drive
> to Austin. Kirby was advising Roswell, Fort Stockton, go toward
> Fredricksburg and come up on Austin from the SE. That didn't mean
> Brett *HAD* to drive that way. It was advice based on accounts of
> people having done that and done other things, and Kirby sharing
> what, at the moment, he believes is the quickest way to get from our
> place to his.
>
> What people are doing on this list is similar to that. People with
> older kids who have unschooled are advising people with younger kids
> about how we got here, what we wish we'd done differently, what we've
> seen other people do that they regretted or that never got them to
> unschooling at all.
>
> Don't worry about failing at unschooling as if it's a goal to be
> accomplished. Worry about whether your kids are learning and living
> in peace.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mamachaos
Don't worry about failing at unschooling as if it's a goal to be
As my 13 year old strives ALLLLLLLLLL week to get his new mount in WOW that was on some new "patch", I have thought the whole week about how uncomfortable I am with this being so obsessive, and yet I want to honor his drive, interests etc. My parenting inner voice is always having conversations---"if I stop him or limit him from the game, what message does that send?, Yeah, but if I don't limit him, his days will be filled only with this 1 thing and I don't feel that is healthy. You're right, it's not healthy perhaps when you look at it this way, but if you look at it in the context of him being allowed to control his own life more, it is actually empowering him, then.............." You get it...this is where I can say (to follow Sandra's great analogy) I am getting warmer. I have a great idea of where I want to go....just wondering what things should look like along the way that take me to that destination.
This thread is so important--I see unschooling as my ultimate quest to be more patient. This process requires trust and patience at the same levels that for ME, ap parenting and all the choices inherent therefore required. There are no "results" given along the way as markers. You have to wait usually a long time if ever to really see that "end result". Think how different that is from our typical schooling experiences......you have a test 2x a week to let you know where you are with "results". Jobs give you reviews etc. There sure isn't some external somebody that is going to evaluate your unschooling/parenting and say "A+, keep up the solid work". You have to trust your instinct. Now that I write this, perhaps working on tuning into your instincts on all levels would be good therapy for those of us who fear, or those who constantly wonder if they are succeeding or failing. I am always asking the kids to check their instinct--their GUT feeling. Ours are not dead, just buried perhaps.
Kelley
http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/
"Childhood is a journey, not a race."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> accomplished. Worry about whether your kids are learning and livingSandra said this in her great email. Immediately when she mentioned this mother saying "I don't want to fail at this", I thought, "Oh God, me either!" Of course no one CAN fail at life, it's all relative. But, when we are looking at how to do things by the minute, by the week etc., we do want to "do well" which in some way is the opposite of failing, and therefore the fear of failing is forever present.
> in peace.
>
As my 13 year old strives ALLLLLLLLLL week to get his new mount in WOW that was on some new "patch", I have thought the whole week about how uncomfortable I am with this being so obsessive, and yet I want to honor his drive, interests etc. My parenting inner voice is always having conversations---"if I stop him or limit him from the game, what message does that send?, Yeah, but if I don't limit him, his days will be filled only with this 1 thing and I don't feel that is healthy. You're right, it's not healthy perhaps when you look at it this way, but if you look at it in the context of him being allowed to control his own life more, it is actually empowering him, then.............." You get it...this is where I can say (to follow Sandra's great analogy) I am getting warmer. I have a great idea of where I want to go....just wondering what things should look like along the way that take me to that destination.
This thread is so important--I see unschooling as my ultimate quest to be more patient. This process requires trust and patience at the same levels that for ME, ap parenting and all the choices inherent therefore required. There are no "results" given along the way as markers. You have to wait usually a long time if ever to really see that "end result". Think how different that is from our typical schooling experiences......you have a test 2x a week to let you know where you are with "results". Jobs give you reviews etc. There sure isn't some external somebody that is going to evaluate your unschooling/parenting and say "A+, keep up the solid work". You have to trust your instinct. Now that I write this, perhaps working on tuning into your instincts on all levels would be good therapy for those of us who fear, or those who constantly wonder if they are succeeding or failing. I am always asking the kids to check their instinct--their GUT feeling. Ours are not dead, just buried perhaps.
Kelley
http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/
"Childhood is a journey, not a race."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-, Yeah, but if I don't limit him, his days will be filled only
with this 1 thing-=
It's not just one thing, though, is it? It's reading and strategy
and storyline and I don't know what all. Teamwork (if he's working
with a group).
If someone reads a lot and goes through three or four books a week,
is that "1 thing" if the books are about different people and times
and places?
Marty has been doing a lot of casual sport stuff. It's just that 1
thing, sports. Only it's (this week alone) armored combat, capture
the flag, basketball, skateboarding, hiking and tomorrow morning
they're going roller skating.
That is SOOOO not "one thing." <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with this 1 thing-=
It's not just one thing, though, is it? It's reading and strategy
and storyline and I don't know what all. Teamwork (if he's working
with a group).
If someone reads a lot and goes through three or four books a week,
is that "1 thing" if the books are about different people and times
and places?
Marty has been doing a lot of casual sport stuff. It's just that 1
thing, sports. Only it's (this week alone) armored combat, capture
the flag, basketball, skateboarding, hiking and tomorrow morning
they're going roller skating.
That is SOOOO not "one thing." <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
A journey
I'm going to jot that down and use it at some appropriate time in the
future (attributed to its author naturally).
Bob
>Brilliant to read what you did write on the subject. Very uplifting! :)
> I had an e-mail I'm going to paraphrase and leave anonymous. It
> doesn't matter who sent it. It could've been anyone.
>
> The question was whether I think someone's not unschooling enough, or
> whether someone's kids should be in school.
> There was further some question about whether one should be further
> along with unschooling, or reading more.
>
> Those are all hard questions. I don't want to have side e-mail about
> such things for a couple of reasons. The value of this group is that
> people will get different ideas, and one person will pick up on a
> nuance that others miss. Also, I don't want to do one-on-one
> exchanges because of time and the relative value of writing in
> private as opposed to writing in public. If I write something here
> and ten families benefit, it was a better use of my time.
>
>
A journey
> of a thousand miles can take fifteen hundred miles if you're notROFL
> careful where you step.
I'm going to jot that down and use it at some appropriate time in the
future (attributed to its author naturally).
Bob
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Barbara Perez"
<barbara.perez@...> wrote:
doing that as a parent for 23 years now and I've gotten away with it
so far. Phew! I hope nobody finds me out. LOL
<barbara.perez@...> wrote:
>I want
>
> I wonder if anyone else has had that feeling of "OK, I *know* where
> to get, but I"m not sure if this is getting me warmer, right now, orI take the step that's in front of me and look for clues. I've been
> colder"? And how do you deal with that?
>
>
doing that as a parent for 23 years now and I've gotten away with it
so far. Phew! I hope nobody finds me out. LOL
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
========================================
As my 13 year old strives ALLLLLLLLLL week to get his new mount in WOW that was on some new "patch", I have thought the whole week about how uncomfortable I am with this being so obsessive, and yet I want to honor his drive, interests etc. My parenting inner voice is always having conversations---"if I stop him or limit him from the game, what message does that send?, Yeah, but if I don't limit him, his days will be filled only with this 1 thing and I don't feel that is healthy. You're right, it's not healthy perhaps when you look at it this way, but if you look at it in the context of him being allowed to control his own life more, it is actually empowering him, then.............." You get it...this is where I can say (to follow Sandra's great analogy) I am getting warmer. I have a great idea of
where I want to go....just wondering what things should look like along the way that take me to that destination.
==================================
I've been playing a lot of World of Warcraft with Simon and Linnaea. Not all day, but every day. The goal isn't to get the new mount, none of us are high enough for a mount, yet. Our playing isn't particularly goal oriented. It is more about playing together, calling a friend or skype-ing another and playing as a group. We help each other or one of us will wander off for a quest, calling out when assistance is needed or when a special something was found that they KNOW will help someone else's character out. It is community and fellowship and a lot of joy. Occasionally there is frustration or jealousy or moments when getting up and moving are better than sitting down and playing. There is humor, oh, I don't know, there is so much more than just playing a game together. Or maybe that is all there is. Like playing Life or Monopoly or chess, maybe it is just like that, like the conversations and the stories and the companionship. When I was a child my
family would go on extended family camping trips. Canasta played a big role in those extended family camping trips. Lots of competition, some hurt feelings; I can remember by Aunt Jamie crying when my dad and my grandmother trounced her and whomever else she was partnered with. Nobody questioned the value of those games. It was encouraged. It was fun and challenging and thoughtful. Just like World of Warcraft can be.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
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As my 13 year old strives ALLLLLLLLLL week to get his new mount in WOW that was on some new "patch", I have thought the whole week about how uncomfortable I am with this being so obsessive, and yet I want to honor his drive, interests etc. My parenting inner voice is always having conversations---"if I stop him or limit him from the game, what message does that send?, Yeah, but if I don't limit him, his days will be filled only with this 1 thing and I don't feel that is healthy. You're right, it's not healthy perhaps when you look at it this way, but if you look at it in the context of him being allowed to control his own life more, it is actually empowering him, then.............." You get it...this is where I can say (to follow Sandra's great analogy) I am getting warmer. I have a great idea of
where I want to go....just wondering what things should look like along the way that take me to that destination.
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I've been playing a lot of World of Warcraft with Simon and Linnaea. Not all day, but every day. The goal isn't to get the new mount, none of us are high enough for a mount, yet. Our playing isn't particularly goal oriented. It is more about playing together, calling a friend or skype-ing another and playing as a group. We help each other or one of us will wander off for a quest, calling out when assistance is needed or when a special something was found that they KNOW will help someone else's character out. It is community and fellowship and a lot of joy. Occasionally there is frustration or jealousy or moments when getting up and moving are better than sitting down and playing. There is humor, oh, I don't know, there is so much more than just playing a game together. Or maybe that is all there is. Like playing Life or Monopoly or chess, maybe it is just like that, like the conversations and the stories and the companionship. When I was a child my
family would go on extended family camping trips. Canasta played a big role in those extended family camping trips. Lots of competition, some hurt feelings; I can remember by Aunt Jamie crying when my dad and my grandmother trounced her and whomever else she was partnered with. Nobody questioned the value of those games. It was encouraged. It was fun and challenging and thoughtful. Just like World of Warcraft can be.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
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Jenny C
> This thread is so important--I see unschooling as my ultimate quest tobe more patient. This process requires >trust and patience at the same
levels that for ME, ap parenting and all the choices inherent therefore
required.
I'm not sure that unschooling can truly work unless you are patient.
Patience, I don't think, can be the bi-product of unschooling. I'm a
very patient person by nature, but I had to really learn how to be more
patient with my kids, before unschooling could really work well.
Without it unschooling was only partial. Getting rid of curriculum and
the idea that you NEED school was the easy part for me. Saying "yes"
and being really mindful and patient was harder, but very very necessary
for unschooling to work. Over the years I've gotten more patient and
more mindful and unschooling has worked better and better with each
passing moment of more patience and more mindfulness.
>There are no "results" given along the way as markers. You have to waitusually a long time if ever to really >see that "end result".
My experience is that you "see" the results a lot sooner if you can
really be patient and mindful sooner. It can be from one week to the
next, one day to the next. Seeing what your kids are doing, is a key
aspect to really understanding how each individual child learns.
Without that, you really will have a hard time knowing how to add more
to it that will really encourage and enrich that child.
>Think how different that is from our typical schoolingexperiences......you have a test 2x a week to let you >know where you
are with "results". Jobs give you reviews etc. There sure isn't some
external somebody that >is going to evaluate your unschooling/parenting
and say "A+, keep up the solid work".
I think we all know this about school, most of us have been there. The
evaluation process doesn't need to happen to know that things are
working. You will know because your kids are at peace, you are at
peace, and your kids are doing the things that they want to do, or
striving to get there.
>You have to trust your instinct. Now that I write this, perhaps workingon tuning into your instincts on all >levels would be good therapy for
those of us who fear, or those who constantly wonder if they are
succeeding >or failing. I am always asking the kids to check their
instinct--their GUT feeling. Ours are not dead, just buried >perhaps.
I think a lot of parents don't really know how to parent. I certainly
don't know all the answers, but I'm better at it than I was 5 yrs ago,
or even 2 yrs ago. I think it's a lot more than trusting your
instincts. Instincts can be good, but some people like you said have
had theirs buried. Schools fail kids all the time. It is an
unavoidable part of that system. If they have successes they gaurantee
failures. Get rid of those dynamics and there is only the person and
what that person does is measured by their own internal compass bouncing
off of the world they live in. We either do or we don't do what we want
to do.
I don't see either one of my kids measuring what they do as successes
and failures. They are either doing what they want to do or not do,
they are either happy with the outcome or not. I really don't see them
internalizing these ideas of success or failure. For the most part they
are happy kids, content with their lives and what they are into.
Sandra Dodd
-=->There are no "results" given along the way as markers. You have
to wait
usually a long time if ever to really >see that "end result".-=-
When is the "end result" of high school? Going to college? What
about dropping out during grad school?
When is the end result of medical school? Going to prison for
illegally distributing methadone?
(Those two examples are people I know personally. I know lots of the
former and knew one of the latter, and attended his funeral with
Holly when she was nine.)
When is the end result of anything?
The way we unschool, the end result is now, in this moment. Five
people are upstairs watching a movie together. They went ice skating
noonish and then out to lunch and then rented videos. Two are legal
adults and could be out drinking beer (or buying beer for the rest of
them), but they're watching movies with three unschooled kids. One
of them has to go to work in a while. One of the people who skated
with them already had to go to work (another adult, who was
unschooled, who's in college and has a job).
That's some end result, in my opinion.
Sandra
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to wait
usually a long time if ever to really >see that "end result".-=-
When is the "end result" of high school? Going to college? What
about dropping out during grad school?
When is the end result of medical school? Going to prison for
illegally distributing methadone?
(Those two examples are people I know personally. I know lots of the
former and knew one of the latter, and attended his funeral with
Holly when she was nine.)
When is the end result of anything?
The way we unschool, the end result is now, in this moment. Five
people are upstairs watching a movie together. They went ice skating
noonish and then out to lunch and then rented videos. Two are legal
adults and could be out drinking beer (or buying beer for the rest of
them), but they're watching movies with three unschooled kids. One
of them has to go to work in a while. One of the people who skated
with them already had to go to work (another adult, who was
unschooled, who's in college and has a job).
That's some end result, in my opinion.
Sandra
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