visualizing channelled juju
Sandra Dodd
"How you live in the moment affects how you live in the hour, and the
day, and the lifetime." —Sandra Dodd
That's the quote that came up when I went to my main page (checking
links, as I'm working on repairing broken links and adding some good
stuff to other pages...)
I'm glad it came up, because I was in the throes of trying to decide
whether to bring a topic to this list or not, and that seemed to be a
good sign.
"How you live in the moment affects how you live in the hour, and the
day, and the lifetime." When I went just now to find where that
quote came from, tadaa! It's from http://sandradodd.com/balance
Balancing in the Middle Ground, which was linked here yesterday.
Okay, here's the subject matter. There seems a little storm of
confusion between unschooling and new age juju, specifically
channeling and visualizing.
I very much prefer thinking and doing to buck-passing and wishing.
Dealing directly and sweetly with one's children does not require
consultation with departed "sages" nor does it need to involve
visualizing get-rich schemes or recommending that kids run away.
This one bugged me:
"When a child has a dream and a parent says, 'It's not financially
feasible; you can't make a living at that; don't do it,' we say to
the child, run away from home...
You must follow your dream.
You will never be joyful if you don't.
Your dream may change, but you've got to stay after your dreams.
You have to."
Abraham, channeled via Esther Hicks
======================
And when I went to see who Esther Hicks was, it reminded me that
someone told me there's a new "radical unschooling" list (and I call
it that because it is [email protected]) that, once
you go to the description says: "This is a discussion and support
group for Radical or Whole Life Unschoolers. This group is unique in
that we will have a focus on using the Law of Attraction in our
Unschooling lives. This is a progressive, revolutionary approach to
parenting that we are honored to be pioneering! "
"Pioneering" the combination of that with "the Law of Attraction"
*maybe* (OR NOT, if the ReThinking Education conference wants to
claim that, as that's where the Esther Hicks quote recommending that
children with impractical ideas run away came from, but not
pioneering unschooling, nor radical unschooling.
Is it necessary for me to explicitly state that I neither advocate
nor believe in the channeling of anyone or anything?
Well "Radical Unschooling" be painted with the crazy brush?
Yes of course, curiosity leads to more curiosity and peace leads to
more peace. Respect leads to more respect. This has been being
said and explained and expanded and expounded on by people on this
list and others similar for YEARS, very many more years than some
people have been parents at all. Does it seem that when people
start talking about the law of attraction they're also asking for
money? And that people want cash when they channel spirits or teams
of spirits (this "Abraham" isn't the Abraham most people think of,
it's some otherworldly committee who seem to have summarized some
cool Hindu and Buddhist ideas, summarized the Best of the
Rosicrucians, and is being marketted as something new). Marketted is
the main part.
Here is a WHOLE LOT of free information, better, purer, and it
doesn't put any juju between you and your child:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
If you live in juju, it will affect your hour, your day and your
lifetime.
Every moment spent hoping for magical benefits could be spent gently
and directly in contact with your children getting REAL benefits.
WAIT! I'm getting a message from the spirit realm.
No, I'm not. I know some schizophrenics who are, but my head and my
home are very still and clear.
Sandra
day, and the lifetime." —Sandra Dodd
That's the quote that came up when I went to my main page (checking
links, as I'm working on repairing broken links and adding some good
stuff to other pages...)
I'm glad it came up, because I was in the throes of trying to decide
whether to bring a topic to this list or not, and that seemed to be a
good sign.
"How you live in the moment affects how you live in the hour, and the
day, and the lifetime." When I went just now to find where that
quote came from, tadaa! It's from http://sandradodd.com/balance
Balancing in the Middle Ground, which was linked here yesterday.
Okay, here's the subject matter. There seems a little storm of
confusion between unschooling and new age juju, specifically
channeling and visualizing.
I very much prefer thinking and doing to buck-passing and wishing.
Dealing directly and sweetly with one's children does not require
consultation with departed "sages" nor does it need to involve
visualizing get-rich schemes or recommending that kids run away.
This one bugged me:
"When a child has a dream and a parent says, 'It's not financially
feasible; you can't make a living at that; don't do it,' we say to
the child, run away from home...
You must follow your dream.
You will never be joyful if you don't.
Your dream may change, but you've got to stay after your dreams.
You have to."
Abraham, channeled via Esther Hicks
======================
And when I went to see who Esther Hicks was, it reminded me that
someone told me there's a new "radical unschooling" list (and I call
it that because it is [email protected]) that, once
you go to the description says: "This is a discussion and support
group for Radical or Whole Life Unschoolers. This group is unique in
that we will have a focus on using the Law of Attraction in our
Unschooling lives. This is a progressive, revolutionary approach to
parenting that we are honored to be pioneering! "
"Pioneering" the combination of that with "the Law of Attraction"
*maybe* (OR NOT, if the ReThinking Education conference wants to
claim that, as that's where the Esther Hicks quote recommending that
children with impractical ideas run away came from, but not
pioneering unschooling, nor radical unschooling.
Is it necessary for me to explicitly state that I neither advocate
nor believe in the channeling of anyone or anything?
Well "Radical Unschooling" be painted with the crazy brush?
Yes of course, curiosity leads to more curiosity and peace leads to
more peace. Respect leads to more respect. This has been being
said and explained and expanded and expounded on by people on this
list and others similar for YEARS, very many more years than some
people have been parents at all. Does it seem that when people
start talking about the law of attraction they're also asking for
money? And that people want cash when they channel spirits or teams
of spirits (this "Abraham" isn't the Abraham most people think of,
it's some otherworldly committee who seem to have summarized some
cool Hindu and Buddhist ideas, summarized the Best of the
Rosicrucians, and is being marketted as something new). Marketted is
the main part.
Here is a WHOLE LOT of free information, better, purer, and it
doesn't put any juju between you and your child:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
If you live in juju, it will affect your hour, your day and your
lifetime.
Every moment spent hoping for magical benefits could be spent gently
and directly in contact with your children getting REAL benefits.
WAIT! I'm getting a message from the spirit realm.
No, I'm not. I know some schizophrenics who are, but my head and my
home are very still and clear.
Sandra
Ren Allen
~~Does it seem that when people
start talking about the law of attraction they're also asking for
money? ~~
Or leading some "pioneering" movement. Blech.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
start talking about the law of attraction they're also asking for
money? ~~
Or leading some "pioneering" movement. Blech.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Jenny C
>This is what inherently bothers me about Steiner. Perhaps I
> If you live in juju, it will affect your hour, your day and your
> lifetime.
>
> Every moment spent hoping for magical benefits could be spent gently
> and directly in contact with your children getting REAL benefits.
>
misinterpret his ideas, but the idea that the spiritual aspect of a
person/child's life plays an equal role in the development of that
person/child. While I can agree that there is an aspect of that in
every person, it completely ignores that all "feelings/spiritual juju"
can be trumped with thought.
Pam
I enjoy Abraham-Hicks "new-age" "juju" stuff and learning about the
Law of Attraction particularly because it has helped me be a better
unschooling parent. I've learned to trust my journey with my kids
and I stand stronger now in the face of naysayers, negative opinions
from family because of what I've read and learned from
Abraham/Esther. Am I just some lazy parent "wishing" for things and
trying to channel my way to a good life without any intention? Hell
No.
I guess if you interpret all of Abraham Hicks and Law of Attraction
as just sticking your head in the sand and waiting for "stuff," then
it wouldn't serve you.
I think the Abraham-Hicks quote here in question is not great and I
think it is taken out of context. I don't interpret it to be
speaking to young children and encouraging them to run away. It
spoke to me more in terms of an older child or adult who is capable
of choosing what they want and yet don't because they are more caught
up in doing what a parent would want or seeking parental approval.
I think a really great Abraham-Hicks quote in terms of unschooling is
this:
----Home Schooled Children Feeling "Free At Last?"
Guest: I have begun home schooling our children. However, finding the
perfect teacher has been challenging.
Abraham: When people use the word "teacher", the vibration that
matches the word often feels more like asserter than it does like
allower. But, the ideal teacher is one who is an open vortex through
which desire can be satisfied, where an asserter is one who has
information that they are wanting to impart.
Jerry and Esther visited with a magnificent founder of a wonderful
school, *Sudbury Valley School in Massachusetts. And he offered
something that was so clarifying to Esther. He said that their
teachers never say, "Well, Johnny, don't you think you would like to
learn to read?" because they are understanding that unless Johnny is
asking to read, that the effort that everyone makes is going to be
uncomfortable anyway.
The ideal teacher is one who understands that desire to know is
natural, and is someone who stands by ready to offer examples to
satisfy the desire of the student... What made you realize it wasn't
working out?
Guest: Behavior issues with the kids... they were not liking the
restraints...
Abraham: The kinds of things they said to you were, "We thought it
was going to be a whole lot more fun. We thought we were going to get
to do more of what we wanted to do, and we thought we were going to
get to choose." And that's the way you felt when you were born, you
thought you were going to get to choose, that was the bargain.
And then somebody else says, "Well, here you are, and you don't get
to choose. You don't get to choose where you sit, or when you come,
or how long you sit there, and you don't get to choose what we think
about. You don't get to choose when you talk, and you don't get to
choose what we talk about. In other words, you are not free, you are
our captives. And we are here to assert good stuff into you."
And they say, "Ah, give me a break! That's not what the bargain was.
I came understanding that I am a creator. I came knowing that I get
to choose." It takes years to beat that out of them. It takes years
and years before they are willing to sit there and be quiet and do
only what is supposed to be done when it is supposed to be done. It
takes a long time to conform you into your unhappiness.
Oh, it is so delicious! When you have an environment where children
feel free, where they get to choose, and you are brave enough to ride
it out... In other words, at first they'll choose all of the things
that you have been convinced are wrong... But when you are brave
enough to let it go far enough that they actually do identify their
own personal desire, and then you stand as the loving implementer of
their desire -- you would never go back to any other form.
The other never worked. It doesn't work even a little bit. It doesn't
work at all. Not even a little bit.
Excerpted from the workshop in San Francisco, CA on Saturday, March
17th, 2001
Law of Attraction particularly because it has helped me be a better
unschooling parent. I've learned to trust my journey with my kids
and I stand stronger now in the face of naysayers, negative opinions
from family because of what I've read and learned from
Abraham/Esther. Am I just some lazy parent "wishing" for things and
trying to channel my way to a good life without any intention? Hell
No.
I guess if you interpret all of Abraham Hicks and Law of Attraction
as just sticking your head in the sand and waiting for "stuff," then
it wouldn't serve you.
I think the Abraham-Hicks quote here in question is not great and I
think it is taken out of context. I don't interpret it to be
speaking to young children and encouraging them to run away. It
spoke to me more in terms of an older child or adult who is capable
of choosing what they want and yet don't because they are more caught
up in doing what a parent would want or seeking parental approval.
I think a really great Abraham-Hicks quote in terms of unschooling is
this:
----Home Schooled Children Feeling "Free At Last?"
Guest: I have begun home schooling our children. However, finding the
perfect teacher has been challenging.
Abraham: When people use the word "teacher", the vibration that
matches the word often feels more like asserter than it does like
allower. But, the ideal teacher is one who is an open vortex through
which desire can be satisfied, where an asserter is one who has
information that they are wanting to impart.
Jerry and Esther visited with a magnificent founder of a wonderful
school, *Sudbury Valley School in Massachusetts. And he offered
something that was so clarifying to Esther. He said that their
teachers never say, "Well, Johnny, don't you think you would like to
learn to read?" because they are understanding that unless Johnny is
asking to read, that the effort that everyone makes is going to be
uncomfortable anyway.
The ideal teacher is one who understands that desire to know is
natural, and is someone who stands by ready to offer examples to
satisfy the desire of the student... What made you realize it wasn't
working out?
Guest: Behavior issues with the kids... they were not liking the
restraints...
Abraham: The kinds of things they said to you were, "We thought it
was going to be a whole lot more fun. We thought we were going to get
to do more of what we wanted to do, and we thought we were going to
get to choose." And that's the way you felt when you were born, you
thought you were going to get to choose, that was the bargain.
And then somebody else says, "Well, here you are, and you don't get
to choose. You don't get to choose where you sit, or when you come,
or how long you sit there, and you don't get to choose what we think
about. You don't get to choose when you talk, and you don't get to
choose what we talk about. In other words, you are not free, you are
our captives. And we are here to assert good stuff into you."
And they say, "Ah, give me a break! That's not what the bargain was.
I came understanding that I am a creator. I came knowing that I get
to choose." It takes years to beat that out of them. It takes years
and years before they are willing to sit there and be quiet and do
only what is supposed to be done when it is supposed to be done. It
takes a long time to conform you into your unhappiness.
Oh, it is so delicious! When you have an environment where children
feel free, where they get to choose, and you are brave enough to ride
it out... In other words, at first they'll choose all of the things
that you have been convinced are wrong... But when you are brave
enough to let it go far enough that they actually do identify their
own personal desire, and then you stand as the loving implementer of
their desire -- you would never go back to any other form.
The other never worked. It doesn't work even a little bit. It doesn't
work at all. Not even a little bit.
Excerpted from the workshop in San Francisco, CA on Saturday, March
17th, 2001
ron_monach
--->
is what compells most people to seek out "professionals", "experts",
even channelers for that matter. We all are given 1 shot at being
the best _______________ (you put the title in here) in this case
parent, and we want to amass as much info as possible, sift thru it
and be better than we were yesterday. I wish I had seen this site
even 8 years ago, 13 years ago......but I didn't. But I wouldn't
have found this without continual seeking to improve my parenting,
our homeschooling etc. It took me a thousand paths to find this
road.
And the deeper I dig into this road, the more gems I find.....Thank
you!
Kelley
> "How you live in the moment affects how you live in the hour, andthe
> day, and the lifetime." Sandra DoddThis quote of yours is so great. And with this in mind, I think it
> Dealing directly and sweetly with one's children does not require
> consultation with departed "sages" nor does it need to involve
> visualizing get-rich schemes or recommending that kids run away.
>
is what compells most people to seek out "professionals", "experts",
even channelers for that matter. We all are given 1 shot at being
the best _______________ (you put the title in here) in this case
parent, and we want to amass as much info as possible, sift thru it
and be better than we were yesterday. I wish I had seen this site
even 8 years ago, 13 years ago......but I didn't. But I wouldn't
have found this without continual seeking to improve my parenting,
our homeschooling etc. It took me a thousand paths to find this
road.
And the deeper I dig into this road, the more gems I find.....Thank
you!
Kelley
Sunday Cote
On Mar 26, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
the supernatural power ascribed to an object."
I've been teaching and studying metaphysics, quantum physics, and New
Thought Spirituality (which is not the same as new age) for over 20
years. Not once have I ever advocated ascribing supernatural power to
any object. In the 15 years that I've been listening to Abraham-Hicks
I have never heard them recommend giving power to an object. In fact,
they recommend not giving your power away to anything, much less an
inanimate object. Not once have I heard anyone who is talking about
Law of Attraction, which seems to be the real issue here, advocate
ascribing supernatural power to an object. It's misleading and
inaccurate to talk about these ideas and practices as new age juju.
It's inaccurate to liken channeling, and especially visualization, to
juju.
passing and wishing. There are some very thoughtful and empowering
discussions going on at [email protected] if anyone
would like to know more. None of which having anything to do with
buck-passing and wishing and a lot to do with thinking and being in
the present moment, healing past experiences, changing perspectives,
making better choices and creating new positive experiences with our
children and for ourselves.
in order for me to be a better unschooling parent. It is useful
information with regard to what I post on her list though.
Whether certain information is considered channeled or not is less
important to me than whether the information resonates with me and
helps me be a more respectful, joyful parent.
As much as I've learned and benefitted from the ideas put forth by
Sandra and other veteran unschoolers here, there have been many times
when I wanted to discuss an unschooling ideas from a more spiritual
perspective. There have been many times when I have had something to
add, but thought that it would be seen as too spiritual for this
list. So, I am very happy that there is a forum for those of us who
came to unschooling as a natural expansion and expression of what we
have learned on our spiritual paths. And I'm grateful to conferences
that add options for us. At Live and Learn, there have been topics on
Zen and Unschooling and this year I think Scott Noelle is presenting
at Live and Learn. He is as spiritual as you get and gathering from
his writings gets much of his wisdom from Abraham-Hicks. At the
Rethinking Education Conference I will be presenting several options
for those who want to go deeper into unschooling from a spiritual
perspective. There is room in Unschooling for secular and spiritual
alike. I don't think one needs to feel threatened by the other.
Separate lists are great though. :-)
at here. I can't imagine that she's saying that if a person
practices visualization or studies a teaching that is "channeled" that
will somehow put a barrier up between them and their children. I have
to say that the specific teachings of Abraham-Hicks have brought down
more barriers in my life that I can even begin to describe. I am
definitely a better, more loving, gentle parent. The basis of what
Abe-Hicks teachings is what has moved me from fear and control to
trust and freedom more easily, especially with my children.
it affects my day and my lifetime. It's really good positive stuff
that brings joy to me and my family.
and learning from Abe-Hicks for 15 years. Many, many real benefits
and yes, magical and delightful and wonder-filled as well. My
children have benefitted greatly from it.
mental consciousness, it can easily be disregarded as mental illness.
Schizophrenics experience delusion and paranoia. It is a disease that
creates chaos and harm to the person and those in their lives. I have
met Esther Hicks and I have sat in her presences while she "channeled"
Abraham. She is anything but delusional and paranoid. She is
grounded in this life, joyful and clear. She is in complete control
of her senses and her body. She doesn't call what she does
"channeling" but more the quieting of her ego and individual mind
chatter, so that she can hear universal wisdom. Something we are all
capable of doing if we choose.
I'm so grateful to Sandra for the insights that I've gained from being
part of this list. Yet knowing that many of the ideas that are
important to me are not welcomed here, I'm also grateful that there
are other places where I can bring my whole self to the table to
discuss and explore unschooling ideas. There are many, many more who
are wanting the same - maybe right on this list. I suspect there will
be a boon in membership at [email protected]. :-)
See you there,
Sunday
> Okay, here's the subject matter. There seems a little storm ofFrom Wikipedia, "Juju is a word of West African origin that refers to
> confusion between unschooling and new age juju, specifically
> channeling and visualizing.
the supernatural power ascribed to an object."
I've been teaching and studying metaphysics, quantum physics, and New
Thought Spirituality (which is not the same as new age) for over 20
years. Not once have I ever advocated ascribing supernatural power to
any object. In the 15 years that I've been listening to Abraham-Hicks
I have never heard them recommend giving power to an object. In fact,
they recommend not giving your power away to anything, much less an
inanimate object. Not once have I heard anyone who is talking about
Law of Attraction, which seems to be the real issue here, advocate
ascribing supernatural power to an object. It's misleading and
inaccurate to talk about these ideas and practices as new age juju.
It's inaccurate to liken channeling, and especially visualization, to
juju.
> I very much prefer thinking and doing to buck-passing and wishing.The ideas discussed by Abraham-Hicks have nothing to do with buck-
passing and wishing. There are some very thoughtful and empowering
discussions going on at [email protected] if anyone
would like to know more. None of which having anything to do with
buck-passing and wishing and a lot to do with thinking and being in
the present moment, healing past experiences, changing perspectives,
making better choices and creating new positive experiences with our
children and for ourselves.
> Is it necessary for me to explicitly state that I neither advocateIt's not necessary for me to know this about Sandra or agree with it
> nor believe in the channeling of anyone or anything?
in order for me to be a better unschooling parent. It is useful
information with regard to what I post on her list though.
Whether certain information is considered channeled or not is less
important to me than whether the information resonates with me and
helps me be a more respectful, joyful parent.
As much as I've learned and benefitted from the ideas put forth by
Sandra and other veteran unschoolers here, there have been many times
when I wanted to discuss an unschooling ideas from a more spiritual
perspective. There have been many times when I have had something to
add, but thought that it would be seen as too spiritual for this
list. So, I am very happy that there is a forum for those of us who
came to unschooling as a natural expansion and expression of what we
have learned on our spiritual paths. And I'm grateful to conferences
that add options for us. At Live and Learn, there have been topics on
Zen and Unschooling and this year I think Scott Noelle is presenting
at Live and Learn. He is as spiritual as you get and gathering from
his writings gets much of his wisdom from Abraham-Hicks. At the
Rethinking Education Conference I will be presenting several options
for those who want to go deeper into unschooling from a spiritual
perspective. There is room in Unschooling for secular and spiritual
alike. I don't think one needs to feel threatened by the other.
Separate lists are great though. :-)
>Because of this use of "juju" I'm not clear on what Sandra is getting
> Here is a WHOLE LOT of free information, better, purer, and it
> doesn't put any juju between you and your child.
at here. I can't imagine that she's saying that if a person
practices visualization or studies a teaching that is "channeled" that
will somehow put a barrier up between them and their children. I have
to say that the specific teachings of Abraham-Hicks have brought down
more barriers in my life that I can even begin to describe. I am
definitely a better, more loving, gentle parent. The basis of what
Abe-Hicks teachings is what has moved me from fear and control to
trust and freedom more easily, especially with my children.
> If you live in juju, it will affect your hour, your day and yourIf by juju you mean the teachings of Abraham-Hicks, I certainly hope
> lifetime.
>
it affects my day and my lifetime. It's really good positive stuff
that brings joy to me and my family.
> Every moment spent hoping for magical benefits could be spent gentlyOh yes, the proof is in the pudding. That's why I've been studying
> and directly in contact with your children getting REAL benefits.
and learning from Abe-Hicks for 15 years. Many, many real benefits
and yes, magical and delightful and wonder-filled as well. My
children have benefitted greatly from it.
>When a person taps into universal wisdom that is beyond their personal
> WAIT! I'm getting a message from the spirit realm.
>
> No, I'm not. I know some schizophrenics who are, but my head and my
> home are very still and clear.
mental consciousness, it can easily be disregarded as mental illness.
Schizophrenics experience delusion and paranoia. It is a disease that
creates chaos and harm to the person and those in their lives. I have
met Esther Hicks and I have sat in her presences while she "channeled"
Abraham. She is anything but delusional and paranoid. She is
grounded in this life, joyful and clear. She is in complete control
of her senses and her body. She doesn't call what she does
"channeling" but more the quieting of her ego and individual mind
chatter, so that she can hear universal wisdom. Something we are all
capable of doing if we choose.
I'm so grateful to Sandra for the insights that I've gained from being
part of this list. Yet knowing that many of the ideas that are
important to me are not welcomed here, I'm also grateful that there
are other places where I can bring my whole self to the table to
discuss and explore unschooling ideas. There are many, many more who
are wanting the same - maybe right on this list. I suspect there will
be a boon in membership at [email protected]. :-)
See you there,
Sunday
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 26, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Pam wrote:
Unschooling isn't waiting for Johnny to ask to read.
The "effort" that unschooling parents make is important (and far from
"uncomfortable") LONG before Johnny might even think of "asking to
read."
The "effort" in the above quote sounds like it still means teaching
Johnny to read, but just waiting until he asks.
The unschooling parent's effort is in creating a fantastic,
stimulating, enriched environment in which Johnny will naturally and,
most often, incidentally, begin reading as natural result of pursuing
his interests.
The above quote is very misleading if it is supposed to describe
unschooling - in fact, it is the number one most mistaken idea about
unschooling that we often run across and I feel like I spent a whole
lot of time trying to correct that idea.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Jerry and Esther visited with a magnificent founder of a wonderfulUnschooling is NOT the above, though.
> school, *Sudbury Valley School in Massachusetts. And he offered
> something that was so clarifying to Esther. He said that their
> teachers never say, "Well, Johnny, don't you think you would like to
> learn to read?" because they are understanding that unless Johnny is
> asking to read, that the effort that everyone makes is going to be
> uncomfortable anyway.
Unschooling isn't waiting for Johnny to ask to read.
The "effort" that unschooling parents make is important (and far from
"uncomfortable") LONG before Johnny might even think of "asking to
read."
The "effort" in the above quote sounds like it still means teaching
Johnny to read, but just waiting until he asks.
The unschooling parent's effort is in creating a fantastic,
stimulating, enriched environment in which Johnny will naturally and,
most often, incidentally, begin reading as natural result of pursuing
his interests.
The above quote is very misleading if it is supposed to describe
unschooling - in fact, it is the number one most mistaken idea about
unschooling that we often run across and I feel like I spent a whole
lot of time trying to correct that idea.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-From Wikipedia, "Juju is a word of West African origin that refers to
the supernatural power ascribed to an object."-=-
Is that all Wikipedia says!?? If so, Wikipedia is crap.
If you're choosing a definition other than the one you knew I
intended, that's rhetorical dodgeball.
-=-... a lot to do with thinking and being in the present moment,
healing past experiences, changing perspectives, making better
choices and creating new positive experiences with our children and
for ourselves.-=-
There's not anything on that list that hasn't been dealt with in
unschooling discussions since the mid-80's or earlier. John Holt
wasn't asking his spirit guide whether what he saw was legitimate.
-=-Whether certain information is considered channeled or not is less
important to me than...-=-
That's the idea of discussing the ideas instead of the people, but it
does matter to me whether the people who are offering information are
working from experience or theory, and it's starting to matter to me
more and more whether the ideas are their own or whether they've just
lifted them from others. There's some stuff going around that's on
the edge of plagiarism. Would claiming it came from the spirit
realm hold up in court?
-=-He is as spiritual as you get and gathering from his writings gets
much of his wisdom from Abraham-Hicks. -=-
Is there a word left out here? or commas?
All the things on your list above have been covered on this list and
Joyce's site and Ren's site. Does that give anyone reason to think
we're getting things from "Abraham-Hicks"?
What's the difference between this Abraham team and Ramtha?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the supernatural power ascribed to an object."-=-
Is that all Wikipedia says!?? If so, Wikipedia is crap.
If you're choosing a definition other than the one you knew I
intended, that's rhetorical dodgeball.
-=-... a lot to do with thinking and being in the present moment,
healing past experiences, changing perspectives, making better
choices and creating new positive experiences with our children and
for ourselves.-=-
There's not anything on that list that hasn't been dealt with in
unschooling discussions since the mid-80's or earlier. John Holt
wasn't asking his spirit guide whether what he saw was legitimate.
-=-Whether certain information is considered channeled or not is less
important to me than...-=-
That's the idea of discussing the ideas instead of the people, but it
does matter to me whether the people who are offering information are
working from experience or theory, and it's starting to matter to me
more and more whether the ideas are their own or whether they've just
lifted them from others. There's some stuff going around that's on
the edge of plagiarism. Would claiming it came from the spirit
realm hold up in court?
-=-He is as spiritual as you get and gathering from his writings gets
much of his wisdom from Abraham-Hicks. -=-
Is there a word left out here? or commas?
All the things on your list above have been covered on this list and
Joyce's site and Ren's site. Does that give anyone reason to think
we're getting things from "Abraham-Hicks"?
What's the difference between this Abraham team and Ramtha?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 26, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Sunday Cote wrote:
general way, these days:
Usage in popular culture
The phrase is used in several John le Carre novels, notably Tinker,
Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
The phrase is also featured in Graham Greene's novel The Quiet
American where narrator and protagonists Fowler remarks "and I thought
to myself 'the juju doesn't work'"
Juju is a term used to refer to energy: "good juju" is good energy;
"bad juju" is bad energy. This popular meaning has found its way to
television. The ABC series Grey's Anatomy uses the term in the episode
"Superstition", as does the CBS series The Unit, in its 2006 episode,
"The Kill Zone." It has also been used by Capitan Sig Hansen of the F/
V Northwestern on the Discovery Channel show "The Deadliest Catch."
In the music industry, Juju plays a big part in the work of J Plunky
Branch with his afro-funk jazz fusion music. From 1971 to 1974 his
band was called Juju, from 1975 to 1981 Oneness of Juju, from 1982 to
1988 Plunky & Oneness of Juju and from 1988 to present day is known as
Plunky & Oneness. The band also had an album in 1984 called Electric
JuJu Nation. (This information courtesy of the band's website: http://www.plunkyone.com
.)
The phrase "bad juju" is used occasionally in the British comedy
series "The Mighty Boosh."
Archie Shepp's 1967 album was titled The Magic of Ju-Ju.
Wayne Shorter's 1964 album was titled "JuJu", named after one of his
most frequently performed compositions.
The lyric "JuJu eyeball" appears in the popular Beatles song "Come
Together."
The fourth studio album by Siouxsie & the Banshees is named Juju (1981).
Alice Cooper has a song titled "Black Juju," and uses the lyric "juju
eye" in his song "Zombie Dance."
Sammy Hagar has a song titled "Serious Juju", located on album "Ten 13"
Albertsons sells a derivative of Swedish fish called Ju Ju Fish.
The Phrase "Bad JuJu" also appears twice in the animated feature Ice
Age 2: The Meltdownduring the dance of the mini-sloths.
The term 'Juju' also appears in the video game, and Nickelodeon show:
"Tak and the Power of Juju".
The term 'Bad Juju' is used by Hyde in That 70's Show after eating
crows cooked by Fez.
'Juju' is used as a slang term for marijuana-filled cigarettes in
Raymond Chandler's novel Farewell, My Lovely. On page 73, Anne Riordan
says 'I knew a guy once who smoked jujus...Three highballs and three
sticks of tea and it took a pipe wrench to get him off the chandelier.'
In the Walt Disney/Pixar movie Ratatouille one of the cooks, with a
Haitian background, says, during a stressful moment, "This is bad
juju." [1]
'Juju' is referred to as "the art of mentally controlling any enemy"
in the Spider-Man story that appears in Marvel Super-Heroes Vol. 1
#14. This is accomplished using a "juju doll", implying a certain
amount of confusion with voodoo.
Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane stories feature a witch doctor as a
prominent character. He refers to his magic as "juju" powers and the
narrarator refers to the witch doctor as a fetish man.
In the first book of The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, Storm Front,
the main character, Harry Dresden, states it is "bad juju" to break
into someone else's dwelling, which is why vampires don't enter homes
without invitation.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> From Wikipedia, "Juju is a word of West African origin that refers toRead the rest - it is so interesting - the word is used in much more
> the supernatural power ascribed to an object."
general way, these days:
Usage in popular culture
The phrase is used in several John le Carre novels, notably Tinker,
Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
The phrase is also featured in Graham Greene's novel The Quiet
American where narrator and protagonists Fowler remarks "and I thought
to myself 'the juju doesn't work'"
Juju is a term used to refer to energy: "good juju" is good energy;
"bad juju" is bad energy. This popular meaning has found its way to
television. The ABC series Grey's Anatomy uses the term in the episode
"Superstition", as does the CBS series The Unit, in its 2006 episode,
"The Kill Zone." It has also been used by Capitan Sig Hansen of the F/
V Northwestern on the Discovery Channel show "The Deadliest Catch."
In the music industry, Juju plays a big part in the work of J Plunky
Branch with his afro-funk jazz fusion music. From 1971 to 1974 his
band was called Juju, from 1975 to 1981 Oneness of Juju, from 1982 to
1988 Plunky & Oneness of Juju and from 1988 to present day is known as
Plunky & Oneness. The band also had an album in 1984 called Electric
JuJu Nation. (This information courtesy of the band's website: http://www.plunkyone.com
.)
The phrase "bad juju" is used occasionally in the British comedy
series "The Mighty Boosh."
Archie Shepp's 1967 album was titled The Magic of Ju-Ju.
Wayne Shorter's 1964 album was titled "JuJu", named after one of his
most frequently performed compositions.
The lyric "JuJu eyeball" appears in the popular Beatles song "Come
Together."
The fourth studio album by Siouxsie & the Banshees is named Juju (1981).
Alice Cooper has a song titled "Black Juju," and uses the lyric "juju
eye" in his song "Zombie Dance."
Sammy Hagar has a song titled "Serious Juju", located on album "Ten 13"
Albertsons sells a derivative of Swedish fish called Ju Ju Fish.
The Phrase "Bad JuJu" also appears twice in the animated feature Ice
Age 2: The Meltdownduring the dance of the mini-sloths.
The term 'Juju' also appears in the video game, and Nickelodeon show:
"Tak and the Power of Juju".
The term 'Bad Juju' is used by Hyde in That 70's Show after eating
crows cooked by Fez.
'Juju' is used as a slang term for marijuana-filled cigarettes in
Raymond Chandler's novel Farewell, My Lovely. On page 73, Anne Riordan
says 'I knew a guy once who smoked jujus...Three highballs and three
sticks of tea and it took a pipe wrench to get him off the chandelier.'
In the Walt Disney/Pixar movie Ratatouille one of the cooks, with a
Haitian background, says, during a stressful moment, "This is bad
juju." [1]
'Juju' is referred to as "the art of mentally controlling any enemy"
in the Spider-Man story that appears in Marvel Super-Heroes Vol. 1
#14. This is accomplished using a "juju doll", implying a certain
amount of confusion with voodoo.
Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane stories feature a witch doctor as a
prominent character. He refers to his magic as "juju" powers and the
narrarator refers to the witch doctor as a fetish man.
In the first book of The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, Storm Front,
the main character, Harry Dresden, states it is "bad juju" to break
into someone else's dwelling, which is why vampires don't enter homes
without invitation.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Juju, the word, I've known and used since I was 12 or 13 (and I'm
old), and because I was always really interested in word histories,
I've known the origin for nearly that long. In plain English it
applies to any superstition or special activity designed to create or
avoid an effect. My cousin had to walk the same way home that she
had walked before. If she went on one side of a tree, she went the
same way. If she crossed the road in one place, she'd do it the same
on the way back. She said otherwise she would "tangle up her
string." That was juju-stuff for her, and we'd go along with it, if
we were walking with her. (She lived with us from the time she was 7
to 17.)
I had a teacher from 1968 to 1970 (my English teacher for two years)
named Jacqui Littlejohn. The first class I took with her was The
Literature of Philosophy, but that was to large extent a cover for
her teaching us meditation. Same as "trancendental meditation," but
honestly? **without the juju**--she told us which part of the
traditions came from Hinduism and such. She discussed the
physiological realities and benefits, and that has always helped me.
It's what I used when Kirby was little and lost his temper so easily.
Mrs. Littlejohn used to bring New Age guest speakers to talk to us
about color energy and healing color and protection from evil spirits
and we lived in a superstitious northern New Mexico town already
where such beliefs were all around all the time. People put crosses
in the screen of the screen doors with sewing needles--VERY common.
Mrs. Littlejohn was way into spirit guides and other realms and had
been hanging out with people who knew more than she did (which
eventually was hard to come by) and she really, really cared.
After she quit teaching, she moved from Santa Fe (she had been
teaching in Espanola, where I grew up) to Albuquerque and worked full
time as a psychic. I stayed in contact with her and visited her and
she went back up to Espanola with me for one of our class
anniversaries (25th, probably). I went to her funeral, in a
wheelchair, which was just a week or so after I got back from the
first Live and Learn conference, where I broke my leg.
I'm telling this long story to point out that this isn't something I
just heard of lately. And to distinguish between "New Thought" and
"New Age" is a little like picking one definition from a long list
and holding it up like a cross to keep out evil.
None of that stuff is new to me. I do know that Jacqui Littlejohn
had a drinking problem and visualized the heck out of money she never
got, and that she could easily have been happier, but I loved her and
just ignored the parts I didn't agree with. She was a good card
reader and I always was willing to have her have a go at whatever
kind of mindreading she wanted to do, but I never took it to the
bank. She cared more about my past life than I did.
My objections have nothing to do with ignorance, my use of "juju"
isn't new or an error on my part.
Sandra
old), and because I was always really interested in word histories,
I've known the origin for nearly that long. In plain English it
applies to any superstition or special activity designed to create or
avoid an effect. My cousin had to walk the same way home that she
had walked before. If she went on one side of a tree, she went the
same way. If she crossed the road in one place, she'd do it the same
on the way back. She said otherwise she would "tangle up her
string." That was juju-stuff for her, and we'd go along with it, if
we were walking with her. (She lived with us from the time she was 7
to 17.)
I had a teacher from 1968 to 1970 (my English teacher for two years)
named Jacqui Littlejohn. The first class I took with her was The
Literature of Philosophy, but that was to large extent a cover for
her teaching us meditation. Same as "trancendental meditation," but
honestly? **without the juju**--she told us which part of the
traditions came from Hinduism and such. She discussed the
physiological realities and benefits, and that has always helped me.
It's what I used when Kirby was little and lost his temper so easily.
Mrs. Littlejohn used to bring New Age guest speakers to talk to us
about color energy and healing color and protection from evil spirits
and we lived in a superstitious northern New Mexico town already
where such beliefs were all around all the time. People put crosses
in the screen of the screen doors with sewing needles--VERY common.
Mrs. Littlejohn was way into spirit guides and other realms and had
been hanging out with people who knew more than she did (which
eventually was hard to come by) and she really, really cared.
After she quit teaching, she moved from Santa Fe (she had been
teaching in Espanola, where I grew up) to Albuquerque and worked full
time as a psychic. I stayed in contact with her and visited her and
she went back up to Espanola with me for one of our class
anniversaries (25th, probably). I went to her funeral, in a
wheelchair, which was just a week or so after I got back from the
first Live and Learn conference, where I broke my leg.
I'm telling this long story to point out that this isn't something I
just heard of lately. And to distinguish between "New Thought" and
"New Age" is a little like picking one definition from a long list
and holding it up like a cross to keep out evil.
None of that stuff is new to me. I do know that Jacqui Littlejohn
had a drinking problem and visualized the heck out of money she never
got, and that she could easily have been happier, but I loved her and
just ignored the parts I didn't agree with. She was a good card
reader and I always was willing to have her have a go at whatever
kind of mindreading she wanted to do, but I never took it to the
bank. She cared more about my past life than I did.
My objections have nothing to do with ignorance, my use of "juju"
isn't new or an error on my part.
Sandra
halfshadow1
Lukas was called Lukey. When he was a toddler he couldn't say Lukey
and instead called himself Juju.--- In [email protected],
Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
and instead called himself Juju.--- In [email protected],
Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>http://www.plunkyone.com
>
> On Mar 26, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Sunday Cote wrote:
> > From Wikipedia, "Juju is a word of West African origin that refers to
> > the supernatural power ascribed to an object."
>
>
> Read the rest - it is so interesting - the word is used in much more
> general way, these days:
>
> Usage in popular culture
>
> The phrase is used in several John le Carre novels, notably Tinker,
> Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
> The phrase is also featured in Graham Greene's novel The Quiet
> American where narrator and protagonists Fowler remarks "and I thought
> to myself 'the juju doesn't work'"
> Juju is a term used to refer to energy: "good juju" is good energy;
> "bad juju" is bad energy. This popular meaning has found its way to
> television. The ABC series Grey's Anatomy uses the term in the episode
> "Superstition", as does the CBS series The Unit, in its 2006 episode,
> "The Kill Zone." It has also been used by Capitan Sig Hansen of the F/
> V Northwestern on the Discovery Channel show "The Deadliest Catch."
> In the music industry, Juju plays a big part in the work of J Plunky
> Branch with his afro-funk jazz fusion music. From 1971 to 1974 his
> band was called Juju, from 1975 to 1981 Oneness of Juju, from 1982 to
> 1988 Plunky & Oneness of Juju and from 1988 to present day is known as
> Plunky & Oneness. The band also had an album in 1984 called Electric
> JuJu Nation. (This information courtesy of the band's website:
> .)
> The phrase "bad juju" is used occasionally in the British comedy
> series "The Mighty Boosh."
> Archie Shepp's 1967 album was titled The Magic of Ju-Ju.
> Wayne Shorter's 1964 album was titled "JuJu", named after one of his
> most frequently performed compositions.
> The lyric "JuJu eyeball" appears in the popular Beatles song "Come
> Together."
> The fourth studio album by Siouxsie & the Banshees is named Juju (1981).
> Alice Cooper has a song titled "Black Juju," and uses the lyric "juju
> eye" in his song "Zombie Dance."
> Sammy Hagar has a song titled "Serious Juju", located on album "Ten 13"
> Albertsons sells a derivative of Swedish fish called Ju Ju Fish.
> The Phrase "Bad JuJu" also appears twice in the animated feature Ice
> Age 2: The Meltdownduring the dance of the mini-sloths.
> The term 'Juju' also appears in the video game, and Nickelodeon show:
> "Tak and the Power of Juju".
> The term 'Bad Juju' is used by Hyde in That 70's Show after eating
> crows cooked by Fez.
> 'Juju' is used as a slang term for marijuana-filled cigarettes in
> Raymond Chandler's novel Farewell, My Lovely. On page 73, Anne Riordan
> says 'I knew a guy once who smoked jujus...Three highballs and three
> sticks of tea and it took a pipe wrench to get him off the chandelier.'
> In the Walt Disney/Pixar movie Ratatouille one of the cooks, with a
> Haitian background, says, during a stressful moment, "This is bad
> juju." [1]
> 'Juju' is referred to as "the art of mentally controlling any enemy"
> in the Spider-Man story that appears in Marvel Super-Heroes Vol. 1
> #14. This is accomplished using a "juju doll", implying a certain
> amount of confusion with voodoo.
> Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane stories feature a witch doctor as a
> prominent character. He refers to his magic as "juju" powers and the
> narrarator refers to the witch doctor as a fetish man.
> In the first book of The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, Storm Front,
> the main character, Harry Dresden, states it is "bad juju" to break
> into someone else's dwelling, which is why vampires don't enter homes
> without invitation.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
kitchen in Tacoma, Washington, in 1977".
http://skepdic.com/ramtha.html
JZ Knight is the lady behind the 2004 movie What The Bleep Do We Know?
There's a (less than complimentary) critique of the movie at the
bottom of the above page.
Abraham-Hicks - now a brand name as much as it is a 'philosophy of
life' (and not by accident, so I've read) - appears not to be listed
in the Skeptics Dictionary, so that's a difference to start with.
Abraham-Hicks is the subject of a more recent movie called The Secret,
though that's never actually stated in the movie itself. Most of the
alleged "Teachers of The Secret" who appear in the movie are personal
friends of Esther and Jerry Hicks. Esther Hicks was herself in the
version of The Secret that was originally released in March 2006, but
she asked to be removed after a falling out with the movie's producer,
Australian TV executive Rhonda Byrne, and the movie was re-edited and
re-released in I think the September.
The Secret reiterates the "quantum flapdoodle" of JZ Knight's movie
even though it had already been debunked by real quantum physicists.
It's The Secret that has popularised the so-called 'Law of Attraction'
and led people to believe that it's supported by "proven science".
It's not. When scientists speculate, that's still speculation not science.
The Secret has also spawned a whole new industry of so-called Law of
Attraction coaches, most of whom had probably never even heard of the
idea two years ago, and an online infestation of scumbags out to make
a buck from offering solutions of various kinds to "why the Law of
Attraction isn't working for you".
I only heard of the 'Law of Attraction' myself about five years ago.
It was always something that came from Abraham-Hicks as far as I was
concerned and I didn't have a problem with Abraham-Hicks. In fact,
Scott Noelle, the Abraham-Hicks parenting coach, features in one of
the free e-books I compiled to give away at my website because, out of
all the parenting 'experts' or 'specialists' I've encountered through
my newsletter, his parenting philosophy is the closest to my own.
But would I directly help promote Abraham-Hicks ideas about parenting
through my newsletter? Absolutely not. For me, channeling is in 'do
not touch with a bargepole' territory. Other people are, of course,
free to believe what suits them.
I'm sure I'll be having some interesting conversations about this at
the Rethinking Education conference in September. :)
Bob
>"Ramtha is a 35000 year-old spirit-warrior who appeared in JZ Knight's
>
> What's the difference between this Abraham team and Ramtha?
>
>
kitchen in Tacoma, Washington, in 1977".
http://skepdic.com/ramtha.html
JZ Knight is the lady behind the 2004 movie What The Bleep Do We Know?
There's a (less than complimentary) critique of the movie at the
bottom of the above page.
Abraham-Hicks - now a brand name as much as it is a 'philosophy of
life' (and not by accident, so I've read) - appears not to be listed
in the Skeptics Dictionary, so that's a difference to start with.
Abraham-Hicks is the subject of a more recent movie called The Secret,
though that's never actually stated in the movie itself. Most of the
alleged "Teachers of The Secret" who appear in the movie are personal
friends of Esther and Jerry Hicks. Esther Hicks was herself in the
version of The Secret that was originally released in March 2006, but
she asked to be removed after a falling out with the movie's producer,
Australian TV executive Rhonda Byrne, and the movie was re-edited and
re-released in I think the September.
The Secret reiterates the "quantum flapdoodle" of JZ Knight's movie
even though it had already been debunked by real quantum physicists.
It's The Secret that has popularised the so-called 'Law of Attraction'
and led people to believe that it's supported by "proven science".
It's not. When scientists speculate, that's still speculation not science.
The Secret has also spawned a whole new industry of so-called Law of
Attraction coaches, most of whom had probably never even heard of the
idea two years ago, and an online infestation of scumbags out to make
a buck from offering solutions of various kinds to "why the Law of
Attraction isn't working for you".
I only heard of the 'Law of Attraction' myself about five years ago.
It was always something that came from Abraham-Hicks as far as I was
concerned and I didn't have a problem with Abraham-Hicks. In fact,
Scott Noelle, the Abraham-Hicks parenting coach, features in one of
the free e-books I compiled to give away at my website because, out of
all the parenting 'experts' or 'specialists' I've encountered through
my newsletter, his parenting philosophy is the closest to my own.
But would I directly help promote Abraham-Hicks ideas about parenting
through my newsletter? Absolutely not. For me, channeling is in 'do
not touch with a bargepole' territory. Other people are, of course,
free to believe what suits them.
I'm sure I'll be having some interesting conversations about this at
the Rethinking Education conference in September. :)
Bob
Sandra Dodd
-=-While I can agree that there is an aspect of that in
every person, it completely ignores that all "feelings/spiritual juju"
can be trumped with thought.-=-
I don't know if it can be "trumped," but it can be thought about and
explained with thought (or words that came from thought and
observation and news in the field of neurology and biochemistry).
There's a collection of songs here about love--the physical feeling
of being in love. Holly and her boyfriend are experiencing some of
these things now, so it has not been in vain that I've been studying
the feeling. There are articles talking about the adaptive behavior
of this serious IN-LOVE phase. It's not "just" a crush or just
infatuation or just puppy love. It IS infatuation and that IS love
at a biochemical level.
I think there is a spiritual aspect that is a kind of higher-level
intellectual aspect, and has to do with wonder and joy and
compassion. They all have biochemical realities, all those "moods"
and states. A hundred years from now that will probably be really
well understood, but they're not yet, and so people make up stories
to make those feelings make sense. Awe. Ecstasy. Those states can
be nurtured and encouraged in our children by regular old non-
jujufied unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
every person, it completely ignores that all "feelings/spiritual juju"
can be trumped with thought.-=-
I don't know if it can be "trumped," but it can be thought about and
explained with thought (or words that came from thought and
observation and news in the field of neurology and biochemistry).
There's a collection of songs here about love--the physical feeling
of being in love. Holly and her boyfriend are experiencing some of
these things now, so it has not been in vain that I've been studying
the feeling. There are articles talking about the adaptive behavior
of this serious IN-LOVE phase. It's not "just" a crush or just
infatuation or just puppy love. It IS infatuation and that IS love
at a biochemical level.
I think there is a spiritual aspect that is a kind of higher-level
intellectual aspect, and has to do with wonder and joy and
compassion. They all have biochemical realities, all those "moods"
and states. A hundred years from now that will probably be really
well understood, but they're not yet, and so people make up stories
to make those feelings make sense. Awe. Ecstasy. Those states can
be nurtured and encouraged in our children by regular old non-
jujufied unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Call it magic, call it juju, call it the universe... thoughts attract
thoughts.~~
Sort of.
I do believe that changing one's thoughts results in different actions
but my problem with the "law of attraction" is that it seems to forget
that action can change thoughts.
It is called a "law of" as though it is some scientific law. It isn't.
It's new age whatever-you-want-to-call-it.
I believe that a shift in thinking can come from getting up off your
butt and DOING something. I also believe that sometimes action follows
a shift in thought. Either way, sitting around visualizing what you
want for your life will NOT in and of itself change your life. You
have to take responsibility for changing your life at some point. You
have to DO something. Thinking about it results in thinking about it.
That's it.
I believe very much that visualization can be a really helpful tool. I
believe that giving yourself positive messages is hugely helpful, I
talk about it all the time at conferences and workshops! However, it's
one tool amongst many. It's not the end-all-be-all only way to change
your life.
I think we have the power within each of us and relying on "experts"
or "laws" can leave us feeling that our own power is somehow less. All
of the answers we need are within us. We don't need certified leaders
or dogma or any such thing to find that.
We may need a friend or a mentor or inspiration from each other. We
may need a kind word or a kick-in-the-toosh or clarification at times.
We may need discussion or reading or observing. That's life learning
for ya! But I get tired of hearing how some anything has all the
answers. The answers are within people who are willing to question and
dig inside themselves and be curious.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
thoughts.~~
Sort of.
I do believe that changing one's thoughts results in different actions
but my problem with the "law of attraction" is that it seems to forget
that action can change thoughts.
It is called a "law of" as though it is some scientific law. It isn't.
It's new age whatever-you-want-to-call-it.
I believe that a shift in thinking can come from getting up off your
butt and DOING something. I also believe that sometimes action follows
a shift in thought. Either way, sitting around visualizing what you
want for your life will NOT in and of itself change your life. You
have to take responsibility for changing your life at some point. You
have to DO something. Thinking about it results in thinking about it.
That's it.
I believe very much that visualization can be a really helpful tool. I
believe that giving yourself positive messages is hugely helpful, I
talk about it all the time at conferences and workshops! However, it's
one tool amongst many. It's not the end-all-be-all only way to change
your life.
I think we have the power within each of us and relying on "experts"
or "laws" can leave us feeling that our own power is somehow less. All
of the answers we need are within us. We don't need certified leaders
or dogma or any such thing to find that.
We may need a friend or a mentor or inspiration from each other. We
may need a kind word or a kick-in-the-toosh or clarification at times.
We may need discussion or reading or observing. That's life learning
for ya! But I get tired of hearing how some anything has all the
answers. The answers are within people who are willing to question and
dig inside themselves and be curious.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-You
have to take responsibility for changing your life at some point. You
have to DO something. Thinking about it results in thinking about it.
That's it.-=-
I think it does more than that. It wastes time and energy, and it
arranges for a person to blame others whose lives aren't going well.
Without accepting that sometimes shit just happens, everything is
turned to cause and effect, reward and punishment, deserved success
and earned failure.
It's not compassionate and it's not realistic.
But yes, changes CAN be made without beliefs in other worlds and
forces and astral this'n'that.
People CAN make choices right away to do better and to be more
patient and aware.
-=-The answers are within people who are willing to question and dig
inside themselves and be curious.-=-
YES. And if I have something to say, I'm going to say it and put my
own real name on it. I'm not going to claim to know more than I
know, I'm not going to quote someone I think is speaking to me, I'm
not going to claim any otherworldly authority. I'm not going to deny
something I've written and say "Well I was just channeling; those
aren't *my* words."
I had an imaginary friend when I was little. My Papaw sat on him and
I cried. I don't have imaginary friends now. I have my kids, who
are real in ways some adults aren't real, and who are still willing
for me to share details of their lives so others can get ideas and
gain confidence.
Did "Abraham" (any of them) homeschool or unschool? Or did they just
use Hicks to interview people? Did she homeschool or unschool?
Why go through intermediaries when your kids are in the same room you
are?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have to take responsibility for changing your life at some point. You
have to DO something. Thinking about it results in thinking about it.
That's it.-=-
I think it does more than that. It wastes time and energy, and it
arranges for a person to blame others whose lives aren't going well.
Without accepting that sometimes shit just happens, everything is
turned to cause and effect, reward and punishment, deserved success
and earned failure.
It's not compassionate and it's not realistic.
But yes, changes CAN be made without beliefs in other worlds and
forces and astral this'n'that.
People CAN make choices right away to do better and to be more
patient and aware.
-=-The answers are within people who are willing to question and dig
inside themselves and be curious.-=-
YES. And if I have something to say, I'm going to say it and put my
own real name on it. I'm not going to claim to know more than I
know, I'm not going to quote someone I think is speaking to me, I'm
not going to claim any otherworldly authority. I'm not going to deny
something I've written and say "Well I was just channeling; those
aren't *my* words."
I had an imaginary friend when I was little. My Papaw sat on him and
I cried. I don't have imaginary friends now. I have my kids, who
are real in ways some adults aren't real, and who are still willing
for me to share details of their lives so others can get ideas and
gain confidence.
Did "Abraham" (any of them) homeschool or unschool? Or did they just
use Hicks to interview people? Did she homeschool or unschool?
Why go through intermediaries when your kids are in the same room you
are?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
[VERY SORRY.... this sat on the desktop all day, under other stuff.]
Typo, and so I will repeat a bit:
Is it necessary for me to explicitly state that I neither advocate
nor believe in the channeling of anyone or anything?
Will "Radical Unschooling" be painted with the crazy brush?
(Will used to mistakenly say "well," and I'm sorry for that.)
Sandra
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
Typo, and so I will repeat a bit:
Is it necessary for me to explicitly state that I neither advocate
nor believe in the channeling of anyone or anything?
Will "Radical Unschooling" be painted with the crazy brush?
(Will used to mistakenly say "well," and I'm sorry for that.)
Sandra
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
graberamy
> We may need a friend or a mentor or inspiration from each other. WeWhen I'm feeling like a dose of attitude adjustment I often refer to
> may need a kind word or a kick-in-the-toosh or clarification at times.
> We may need discussion or reading or observing. That's life learning
> for ya! But I get tired of hearing how some anything has all the
> answers. The answers are within people who are willing to question and
> dig inside themselves and be curious.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
this book Where ever you go there you are. I always refer to one
passage that says your thoughts are your reality. If I think my life is
crappy it will be, but if I chose to think that life is great (or can
get better) it does. You're so right, the answers are within ourselves,
if we're willing to examine ourselves.
When I first came to this list I couldn't stand some of the stuff I
heard (no offense) but then I realized, as I'm sure so many have, that
what I was hearing hurt because I wasn't willing to admit that I was the
source of much of the conflict that was happening in our home.
Things were only going to get better if I was willing to change and hear
some things that I really didn't want to. I still read all your post
and blogs hoping to learn and change and be a better parent.
Just the last few days dd (10) has been reading some with me. We read
about Holly and being brave...Lydia really liked that story about her
confronting the woman in the bathroom. We often see things like that
happen at malls and such, which in all honesty just make me feel like a
great parent (and probably makes Lydia feel lucky). I just love that
Lydia is so interested in hearing these stories and perhaps they will
help her understand why we've chosen to live our life the way we have (a
lot of her friends are school at homers or public school kids). I'm
sure at times she must wonder why we do things so differently??
amy g
iowa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sunday Cote
On Mar 26, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
clarifying the distinction between two terms. There is indeed a
difference between "New Thought" and "New Age."
New Age is a catch-all term for many, many different practices and
beliefs, occult and mystical, eastern and western. There is no formal
organization, structure or ideas that are universally agreed upon.
There are no "founders" or tenets. It's a term that came into popular
use in the 70's and 80's and was a part of the evolution of the self-
help boon. Some things that are included in new age are tarot,
psychic phenomenon, crystals, reincarnation, and channeling.
New Thought refers to a very specific spiritual movement that has its
roots in transcendentalism and Christian mysticism and began in the
mid-1800, with more formal organization beginning at the start of the
20th century. It is an organizational umbrella for New Thought
centers all of the world and basic tenets are agreed upon.
New Thought does NOT teach, advocate or include tarot, astrology,
psychic phenomenon, crystals, reincarnation or channeling. Although
it doesn't condemn these practices if a person finds them valuable.
The basic beliefs include Oneness (that we are all energetically
connected to each other and our source) and that changing your
thinking can change your life. These are ideas that are put forth in
all major religions when they are stripped of the dogma that man has
created around them. The Association for Global New Thought is a
great place to find out more. www.agnt.org
New Age practices can indeed include many New Thought ideas, but New
Thought does not include all things new age. To use them
interchangeably is inaccurate.
> And to distinguish between "New Thought" andI'm puzzled by this analogy and don't know what it has to do with
> "New Age" is a little like picking one definition from a long list
> and holding it up like a cross to keep out evil.
clarifying the distinction between two terms. There is indeed a
difference between "New Thought" and "New Age."
New Age is a catch-all term for many, many different practices and
beliefs, occult and mystical, eastern and western. There is no formal
organization, structure or ideas that are universally agreed upon.
There are no "founders" or tenets. It's a term that came into popular
use in the 70's and 80's and was a part of the evolution of the self-
help boon. Some things that are included in new age are tarot,
psychic phenomenon, crystals, reincarnation, and channeling.
New Thought refers to a very specific spiritual movement that has its
roots in transcendentalism and Christian mysticism and began in the
mid-1800, with more formal organization beginning at the start of the
20th century. It is an organizational umbrella for New Thought
centers all of the world and basic tenets are agreed upon.
New Thought does NOT teach, advocate or include tarot, astrology,
psychic phenomenon, crystals, reincarnation or channeling. Although
it doesn't condemn these practices if a person finds them valuable.
The basic beliefs include Oneness (that we are all energetically
connected to each other and our source) and that changing your
thinking can change your life. These are ideas that are put forth in
all major religions when they are stripped of the dogma that man has
created around them. The Association for Global New Thought is a
great place to find out more. www.agnt.org
New Age practices can indeed include many New Thought ideas, but New
Thought does not include all things new age. To use them
interchangeably is inaccurate.
Barbara Chase
I don't have a specific problem with the Law of Attraction. It's an
idea, a thought about how to think. Years ago I read Sandra's idea
about making a different choice in any given moment, one that moved
towards unschooling instead of away from it. It's also an idea, a
thought about how to think. They have both been meaningful ideas for
me, helped me to see ways that I could make changes in my own life.
And I don't really care how these ideas come into being --
visualized, channelled, or popped into creation while taking a
shower. It's what I *do* with these ideas that matters to me. And
where I place the power, that's critical. I agree with Ren, who said
"The answers are within people who are willing to question and dig
inside themselves and be curious."
When I place the power outside of myself, whether it be with Abraham-
Hicks or Sandra, with a path home or a magical crystal, maybe that's
when it's juju.... when it takes away from my potential for actually
*making* a difference in my own life.
Mahalo,
Barbara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
idea, a thought about how to think. Years ago I read Sandra's idea
about making a different choice in any given moment, one that moved
towards unschooling instead of away from it. It's also an idea, a
thought about how to think. They have both been meaningful ideas for
me, helped me to see ways that I could make changes in my own life.
And I don't really care how these ideas come into being --
visualized, channelled, or popped into creation while taking a
shower. It's what I *do* with these ideas that matters to me. And
where I place the power, that's critical. I agree with Ren, who said
"The answers are within people who are willing to question and dig
inside themselves and be curious."
When I place the power outside of myself, whether it be with Abraham-
Hicks or Sandra, with a path home or a magical crystal, maybe that's
when it's juju.... when it takes away from my potential for actually
*making* a difference in my own life.
Mahalo,
Barbara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~When I'm feeling like a dose of attitude adjustment I often refer to
this book Where ever you go there you are. ~~
ooh,ooh! I DO love that book. It really is about shifting your own
perceptions and taking responsibility for your feelings and reactions.
Very Zen and applicable for anyone.
I quote that often in talks and used to keep it in the bathroom for a
quick read every day. For those that haven't read it, each chapter is
very short and you can skip around if you want. It's by Jon Kabat-Zinn.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
this book Where ever you go there you are. ~~
ooh,ooh! I DO love that book. It really is about shifting your own
perceptions and taking responsibility for your feelings and reactions.
Very Zen and applicable for anyone.
I quote that often in talks and used to keep it in the bathroom for a
quick read every day. For those that haven't read it, each chapter is
very short and you can skip around if you want. It's by Jon Kabat-Zinn.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~When I place the power outside of myself, whether it be with Abraham-
Hicks or Sandra, with a path home or a magical crystal, maybe that's
when it's juju.... when it takes away from my potential for actually
*making* a difference in my own life.~~
I totally agree.
Some people find a tool useful for a while, to help them shift their
thinking. Great!
But more often than not, I see people who have rejected mainstream
religions and are quite willing to accept ANY New Age rhetoric or
whatever they've decided is better than the mainstream version,
without question. That drives me bonkers.
The Law of Attraction stuff has it's value, but it's nothing new.
"Positive thinking" and other such forms have been around for a long
time. My issues with it aren't about the part on shifting your
thoughts to positive...that's usually a great idea.:)
When people believe that how they think will bring certain events into
their lives (and that again is true to a certain degree because if we
are AWARE we see opportunity we otherwise miss) I really wonder if
they realize the importance of changing actions and making better
choices,not just thinking about it.
The kid that gets raped isn't thinking negative thoughts. My Mom
didn't die because of my thoughts. Shit happens and what we are
thinking about is not the cause and effect for everything!!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Hicks or Sandra, with a path home or a magical crystal, maybe that's
when it's juju.... when it takes away from my potential for actually
*making* a difference in my own life.~~
I totally agree.
Some people find a tool useful for a while, to help them shift their
thinking. Great!
But more often than not, I see people who have rejected mainstream
religions and are quite willing to accept ANY New Age rhetoric or
whatever they've decided is better than the mainstream version,
without question. That drives me bonkers.
The Law of Attraction stuff has it's value, but it's nothing new.
"Positive thinking" and other such forms have been around for a long
time. My issues with it aren't about the part on shifting your
thoughts to positive...that's usually a great idea.:)
When people believe that how they think will bring certain events into
their lives (and that again is true to a certain degree because if we
are AWARE we see opportunity we otherwise miss) I really wonder if
they realize the importance of changing actions and making better
choices,not just thinking about it.
The kid that gets raped isn't thinking negative thoughts. My Mom
didn't die because of my thoughts. Shit happens and what we are
thinking about is not the cause and effect for everything!!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sunday Cote
On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:34 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Yet I've heard this exact same criticism when Sandra or others on this
list are trying to help someone see how they might have contributed to
their current situation. I've heard those things said when people are
trying to justify what's going on with their kids.
It can be the most compassion thing in the world to help someone see
how they got to their current situation. And yet, I agree that guilt
and blame have no place in moving through a bad situation. I've
always hated when someone says, "What were you thinking to get
yourself into this situation?" I think that is spiritual malpractice.
I agree that shit happens and that we may not be responsible for every
event in our lives, but we are definitely responsible for what we do
with those situations. The changes we make can indeed affect our
future. And there are situations that we absolutely play apart in
getting ourselves into. For example, it's not blame or guilt to help
a person see how their lack of self-esteem or self-worth actually did
play a part in them being victimized or taken advantage of. It's
cruel NOT to help people change what they have the power to change
within themselves so that they have happier, brighter experiences.
What we do and how we think today does help create better tomorrows
even in the midst of the random events that may befall us.
Sunday
>I agree and I don't subscribe to that philosophy at all.
> Without accepting that sometimes shit just happens, everything is
> turned to cause and effect, reward and punishment, deserved success
> and earned failure.
>
> It's not compassionate and it's not realistic.
Yet I've heard this exact same criticism when Sandra or others on this
list are trying to help someone see how they might have contributed to
their current situation. I've heard those things said when people are
trying to justify what's going on with their kids.
It can be the most compassion thing in the world to help someone see
how they got to their current situation. And yet, I agree that guilt
and blame have no place in moving through a bad situation. I've
always hated when someone says, "What were you thinking to get
yourself into this situation?" I think that is spiritual malpractice.
I agree that shit happens and that we may not be responsible for every
event in our lives, but we are definitely responsible for what we do
with those situations. The changes we make can indeed affect our
future. And there are situations that we absolutely play apart in
getting ourselves into. For example, it's not blame or guilt to help
a person see how their lack of self-esteem or self-worth actually did
play a part in them being victimized or taken advantage of. It's
cruel NOT to help people change what they have the power to change
within themselves so that they have happier, brighter experiences.
What we do and how we think today does help create better tomorrows
even in the midst of the random events that may befall us.
Sunday
Sandra Dodd
-=-New Thought does NOT teach, advocate or include tarot, astrology,
psychic phenomenon, crystals, reincarnation or channeling. Although
it doesn't condemn these practices if a person finds them valuable. -=-
I don't condemn New Thought if a person finds it valuable, but to
lead anyone else to believe that it's a part of Unschooling does
neither Unschooling nor New Thought any good.
Unschooling is a kind of homeschooling. Within homeschooling groups
and discussions, unschooling is a specific and important
distinction. From the outside, it's not.
From the inside of new age practices New Thought is a specific and
important distinction. From the outside, it's not.
I could go on and on about what a good match the SCA and unschooling
are and yet I have no desire nor need to create a group about it nor
to have a conference about it, nor to have unschooling workshops at
SCA events nor to encourage others to join the SCA.
The way that New Thought can help an unschooling family is the way
ideas from ANY religion or an ethical society or involvement in Yoga
or traditional martial arts can help a family. So if the general
terms can be discussed that's great! If a workshop at an
international conference (or a whole long series of workshops) is
help, no problem. If the workshop becomes associated with one
religion (as most homeschooling conferences are) it seems good and
honest to let people know BEFORE they sign up for it.
Most homeschooling conferences are run by Christian organizations,
and have more vendors and vending than speakers and workshops. I've
been to a couple of conferences where there were speakers talking
about the role of men to lead their families the importance of
keeping children safe from the world. It's not pretty. One of them
was pretty clearly advertised. The other was not, and the keynote
speaker (intro and closing) was VERY much a "Focus on the Family"
kind of guy (not in a general way but in a registered trademark James
Dobson kind of way.
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/
I can (and have) mentioned the value of historical reenactment for
those who like such things. So have other people. Within historical
reenactment, the SCA is very specific and sometimes not respected at
all. But within historical reenactment, they all know and
acknowledge that the SCA was there before most of the other groups
and has spawned some very cool research and activity. That's too
much information for this list, though. SOME of it is useful, but
not a total parallel of one particular hobby (no matter that within
it are dozens of hobbies--armor making, calligraphy, cooking, music,
costuming, needlework, shoemaking...) and unschooling would be
misleading and irritating to people who aren't in the SCA.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
psychic phenomenon, crystals, reincarnation or channeling. Although
it doesn't condemn these practices if a person finds them valuable. -=-
I don't condemn New Thought if a person finds it valuable, but to
lead anyone else to believe that it's a part of Unschooling does
neither Unschooling nor New Thought any good.
Unschooling is a kind of homeschooling. Within homeschooling groups
and discussions, unschooling is a specific and important
distinction. From the outside, it's not.
From the inside of new age practices New Thought is a specific and
important distinction. From the outside, it's not.
I could go on and on about what a good match the SCA and unschooling
are and yet I have no desire nor need to create a group about it nor
to have a conference about it, nor to have unschooling workshops at
SCA events nor to encourage others to join the SCA.
The way that New Thought can help an unschooling family is the way
ideas from ANY religion or an ethical society or involvement in Yoga
or traditional martial arts can help a family. So if the general
terms can be discussed that's great! If a workshop at an
international conference (or a whole long series of workshops) is
help, no problem. If the workshop becomes associated with one
religion (as most homeschooling conferences are) it seems good and
honest to let people know BEFORE they sign up for it.
Most homeschooling conferences are run by Christian organizations,
and have more vendors and vending than speakers and workshops. I've
been to a couple of conferences where there were speakers talking
about the role of men to lead their families the importance of
keeping children safe from the world. It's not pretty. One of them
was pretty clearly advertised. The other was not, and the keynote
speaker (intro and closing) was VERY much a "Focus on the Family"
kind of guy (not in a general way but in a registered trademark James
Dobson kind of way.
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/
I can (and have) mentioned the value of historical reenactment for
those who like such things. So have other people. Within historical
reenactment, the SCA is very specific and sometimes not respected at
all. But within historical reenactment, they all know and
acknowledge that the SCA was there before most of the other groups
and has spawned some very cool research and activity. That's too
much information for this list, though. SOME of it is useful, but
not a total parallel of one particular hobby (no matter that within
it are dozens of hobbies--armor making, calligraphy, cooking, music,
costuming, needlework, shoemaking...) and unschooling would be
misleading and irritating to people who aren't in the SCA.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think there is a spiritual aspect that is a kind of higher-level
intellectual aspect, and has to do with wonder and joy and
compassion. They all have biochemical realities, all those "moods"
and states. A hundred years from now that will probably be really
well understood, but they're not yet, and so people make up stories
to make those feelings make sense. Awe. Ecstasy. Those states can
be nurtured and encouraged in our children by regular old non-
jujufied unschooling.-=-
I meant to put a link or two with that.
http://sandradodd.com/wonder
http://sandradodd.com/peace/becoming
Pam Sorooshian at her best, on both of those (and lots of other
people on the first one)
http://sandradodd.com/joy
http://sandradodd.com/morning
Those are the kinds of things religious are built out of, but I'm
not at all religious. Pam is; Joyce is; lots of people on this list
are, but you don't even know it because it's not necessary for
understanding how we can help our children see the world with wonder
and awe without adding creationism or reincarnation or intentionality
or ANY big word with a long explanation.
A butterfly can be fantastically awe-inspiring and even moreso (in my
opinion) if the mom doesn't jump in to tell the kid that the
butterfly proves that God created the universe and non-Christians are
dopes, or that the butterfly will die and come back as a bird, or
that the butterfly is there because the child draws beauty to him.
JUST LOOK AT THE BUTTERFLY!!! Let the child start coming to his own
conclusions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
intellectual aspect, and has to do with wonder and joy and
compassion. They all have biochemical realities, all those "moods"
and states. A hundred years from now that will probably be really
well understood, but they're not yet, and so people make up stories
to make those feelings make sense. Awe. Ecstasy. Those states can
be nurtured and encouraged in our children by regular old non-
jujufied unschooling.-=-
I meant to put a link or two with that.
http://sandradodd.com/wonder
http://sandradodd.com/peace/becoming
Pam Sorooshian at her best, on both of those (and lots of other
people on the first one)
http://sandradodd.com/joy
http://sandradodd.com/morning
Those are the kinds of things religious are built out of, but I'm
not at all religious. Pam is; Joyce is; lots of people on this list
are, but you don't even know it because it's not necessary for
understanding how we can help our children see the world with wonder
and awe without adding creationism or reincarnation or intentionality
or ANY big word with a long explanation.
A butterfly can be fantastically awe-inspiring and even moreso (in my
opinion) if the mom doesn't jump in to tell the kid that the
butterfly proves that God created the universe and non-Christians are
dopes, or that the butterfly will die and come back as a bird, or
that the butterfly is there because the child draws beauty to him.
JUST LOOK AT THE BUTTERFLY!!! Let the child start coming to his own
conclusions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think the Abraham-Hicks quote here in question is not great and I
think it is taken out of context.-=-
I found it quoted just like that, no context. I picked up the
entirety of what I was sent.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think it is taken out of context.-=-
I found it quoted just like that, no context. I picked up the
entirety of what I was sent.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sunday Cote
Oh, yes. I meant that the original quote sent was taken out of
context, not that you took it out of context.
context, not that you took it out of context.
On Mar 27, 2008, at 8:59 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> -=-I think the Abraham-Hicks quote here in question is not great and I
> think it is taken out of context.-=-
>
>
>
> I found it quoted just like that, no context. I picked up the
> entirety of what I was sent.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-It's
cruel NOT to help people change what they have the power to change
within themselves so that they have happier, brighter experiences.
What we do and how we think today does help create better tomorrows
even in the midst of the random events that may befall us.-=-
Surely you're not accusing people on this list of not helping people
change so that they have happier, brighter experiences.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cruel NOT to help people change what they have the power to change
within themselves so that they have happier, brighter experiences.
What we do and how we think today does help create better tomorrows
even in the midst of the random events that may befall us.-=-
Surely you're not accusing people on this list of not helping people
change so that they have happier, brighter experiences.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 27, 2008, at 8:02 AM, Barbara Chase wrote:
extranormal power - whether that "other" is an object or a person or
even a physical action like rubbing stones or dunking someone in water.
Gaining insight from ANYTHING is cool. I read the educational
psychology studies and gain insight from them. But I don't have to
believe in them - in fact, I read them VERY critically and keep in
mind the context and underlying assumptions of the investigators.
If someone says that they are "channeling" some sort of wisdom, I flat
out do not believe it. I'm not going to pretend that I do. I've seen
no convincing evidence to support it and lots of evidence of
charlatans. What they SAY might still be interesting and valuable, but
their credibility is damaged for me, by the paranormal claims. Still,
I'll read what they say and take it at face value as much as I can and
gain what insight is there for me to gain. Again, though, as with
reading anything else, I'm reading critically.
By "critically" I do not mean trying to find fault, I mean evaluating,
thinking skeptically, being careful about what I accept. Often it
means looking at the underlying assumptions and at the logical
conclusions.
It would be good if people were careful not to confuse any particular
belief system with unschooling, particularly with radical
unschooling. It is hard enough for people to absorb and "get" what is
meant by radical unschooling without it being embedded in a certain
new age OR new thought OR any other belief system. For those who do
believe in some particular thing, I see no problem at all in
discussing it openly, forming lists with like-minded people, etc.
Just, please, make it clear you are a subset of a larger population of
unschoolers, not THE population. And if we go out speaking at
conferences or to the public about unschooling AND a particular belief
system, we should say so up front as in, "I am talking about
unschooling AND ....." whatever it is. Anything less is less than
honest. If someone was promoting Bible-based unschooling or using the
Koran as the basis of understanding unschooling, I'd say the same
thing - please identify your starting point and be honest about what
you're really supporting - a religion AND unschooling.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'd call it "juju" when someone thinks "another" has some sort of
> When I place the power outside of myself, whether it be with Abraham-
> Hicks or Sandra, with a path home or a magical crystal, maybe that's
> when it's juju.... when it takes away from my potential for actually
> *making* a difference in my own life.
extranormal power - whether that "other" is an object or a person or
even a physical action like rubbing stones or dunking someone in water.
Gaining insight from ANYTHING is cool. I read the educational
psychology studies and gain insight from them. But I don't have to
believe in them - in fact, I read them VERY critically and keep in
mind the context and underlying assumptions of the investigators.
If someone says that they are "channeling" some sort of wisdom, I flat
out do not believe it. I'm not going to pretend that I do. I've seen
no convincing evidence to support it and lots of evidence of
charlatans. What they SAY might still be interesting and valuable, but
their credibility is damaged for me, by the paranormal claims. Still,
I'll read what they say and take it at face value as much as I can and
gain what insight is there for me to gain. Again, though, as with
reading anything else, I'm reading critically.
By "critically" I do not mean trying to find fault, I mean evaluating,
thinking skeptically, being careful about what I accept. Often it
means looking at the underlying assumptions and at the logical
conclusions.
It would be good if people were careful not to confuse any particular
belief system with unschooling, particularly with radical
unschooling. It is hard enough for people to absorb and "get" what is
meant by radical unschooling without it being embedded in a certain
new age OR new thought OR any other belief system. For those who do
believe in some particular thing, I see no problem at all in
discussing it openly, forming lists with like-minded people, etc.
Just, please, make it clear you are a subset of a larger population of
unschoolers, not THE population. And if we go out speaking at
conferences or to the public about unschooling AND a particular belief
system, we should say so up front as in, "I am talking about
unschooling AND ....." whatever it is. Anything less is less than
honest. If someone was promoting Bible-based unschooling or using the
Koran as the basis of understanding unschooling, I'd say the same
thing - please identify your starting point and be honest about what
you're really supporting - a religion AND unschooling.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-What they SAY might still be interesting and valuable, but
their credibility is damaged for me, by the paranormal claims. Still,
I'll read what they say and take it at face value as much as I can and
gain what insight is there for me to gain.-=-
When someone rephrases what I've written ten years back, it's
interesting and valuable, but it still pisses me off a little. Not a
lot, if they're giving it away free, but if they're wanting to sell
it and act like they just had a brilliant stroke of insight it makes
everything else they write, say or do suspect too.
I try to be careful to credit where my ideas came from and when, and
some people either can't or don't bother, or they assume that all the
unschooling discussions in the world are generic "everyone knows,"
but there are things I got from specific other people and I'm
grateful to them for sharing and helping me make my kids' lives better.
We are giving this stuff away like free bottled sparkling water, and
have been for YEARS.
I pay for my site. I don't know if Joyce's is free or not. Actually,
mrsdebus/Lishelle, of Auckland, is paying for March, out of the
goodness of her heart and the magic of PayPal. If anyone else wants
to sponsor me a month, send $11 and I'll credit you as generous
sponsor and lovely assistant (or something). Or buy a book. The
books did cost a lot of particular time and money, and there's a pile
of them in my office looking at me.
http://sandradodd.com/puddlebook
I would like to call for simplicity and honesty and direct communion
with our children without as little overlay as possible. Fake it til
you make it, maybe, if your life is full of overlay and underpinnings
and fears and the ghosts of structures worldly and otherworldly.
Make the more present choice.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
their credibility is damaged for me, by the paranormal claims. Still,
I'll read what they say and take it at face value as much as I can and
gain what insight is there for me to gain.-=-
When someone rephrases what I've written ten years back, it's
interesting and valuable, but it still pisses me off a little. Not a
lot, if they're giving it away free, but if they're wanting to sell
it and act like they just had a brilliant stroke of insight it makes
everything else they write, say or do suspect too.
I try to be careful to credit where my ideas came from and when, and
some people either can't or don't bother, or they assume that all the
unschooling discussions in the world are generic "everyone knows,"
but there are things I got from specific other people and I'm
grateful to them for sharing and helping me make my kids' lives better.
We are giving this stuff away like free bottled sparkling water, and
have been for YEARS.
I pay for my site. I don't know if Joyce's is free or not. Actually,
mrsdebus/Lishelle, of Auckland, is paying for March, out of the
goodness of her heart and the magic of PayPal. If anyone else wants
to sponsor me a month, send $11 and I'll credit you as generous
sponsor and lovely assistant (or something). Or buy a book. The
books did cost a lot of particular time and money, and there's a pile
of them in my office looking at me.
http://sandradodd.com/puddlebook
I would like to call for simplicity and honesty and direct communion
with our children without as little overlay as possible. Fake it til
you make it, maybe, if your life is full of overlay and underpinnings
and fears and the ghosts of structures worldly and otherworldly.
Make the more present choice.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sunday Cote
On Mar 27, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
And to clarify the whole Abe-Hicks quote: Esther Hicks in no way
tries to represent herself as anything to do with unschooling. In
fact, recently a friend of mine mentioned to her something about
unschooling and she said, "What's that?" Personally I have found
many of their quotes inspirational and supportive of respectful
parenting and the principles of unschooling. For me, they were the
first to plant the seed many years ago when talking about Sudbury.
Because of their reference, I read the book, "Free at Last" and a door
to a new way of thinking about education and children opened for me.
Then years later I discovered John Holt and Unschooling and a bigger
door opened. That was my path and my connection to Unschooling and
Abe-Hicks. Esther Hicks makes no claim to unschooling and I don't
believe she has any desire to be known at all in the unschooling
world. They are just saying what they are saying, going along their
path. And some of it gives me inspiration on my unschooling journey.
I would never ever have brought up Abe-Hicks on this list if Sandra
hadn't opened up the topic. I would never represent unschooling as an
off-shoot of my spiritual philosophy. I'm on a journey, talking and
growing with others and it's helpful for me to put it all into context
with regard to my spiritual beliefs. If others find that helpful, I'm
happy to join in conversation with them. But it's alway with the
understanding that these are my beliefs AND unschooling, not just
unschooling.
Thanks for helping to clarify that.
Sunday
> By "critically" I do not mean trying to find fault, I mean evaluating,Absolutely! I agree 100% with this.
> thinking skeptically, being careful about what I accept. Often it
> means looking at the underlying assumptions and at the logical
> conclusions.
>
> It would be good if people were careful not to confuse any particular
> belief system with unschooling, particularly with radical
> unschooling. It is hard enough for people to absorb and "get" what is
> meant by radical unschooling without it being embedded in a certain
> new age OR new thought OR any other belief system. For those who do
> believe in some particular thing, I see no problem at all in
> discussing it openly, forming lists with like-minded people, etc.
> Just, please, make it clear you are a subset of a larger population of
> unschoolers, not THE population. And if we go out speaking at
> conferences or to the public about unschooling AND a particular belief
> system, we should say so up front as in, "I am talking about
> unschooling AND ....." whatever it is. Anything less is less than
> honest. If someone was promoting Bible-based unschooling or using the
> Koran as the basis of understanding unschooling, I'd say the same
> thing - please identify your starting point and be honest about what
> you're really supporting - a religion AND unschooling.
>
> -pam
And to clarify the whole Abe-Hicks quote: Esther Hicks in no way
tries to represent herself as anything to do with unschooling. In
fact, recently a friend of mine mentioned to her something about
unschooling and she said, "What's that?" Personally I have found
many of their quotes inspirational and supportive of respectful
parenting and the principles of unschooling. For me, they were the
first to plant the seed many years ago when talking about Sudbury.
Because of their reference, I read the book, "Free at Last" and a door
to a new way of thinking about education and children opened for me.
Then years later I discovered John Holt and Unschooling and a bigger
door opened. That was my path and my connection to Unschooling and
Abe-Hicks. Esther Hicks makes no claim to unschooling and I don't
believe she has any desire to be known at all in the unschooling
world. They are just saying what they are saying, going along their
path. And some of it gives me inspiration on my unschooling journey.
I would never ever have brought up Abe-Hicks on this list if Sandra
hadn't opened up the topic. I would never represent unschooling as an
off-shoot of my spiritual philosophy. I'm on a journey, talking and
growing with others and it's helpful for me to put it all into context
with regard to my spiritual beliefs. If others find that helpful, I'm
happy to join in conversation with them. But it's alway with the
understanding that these are my beliefs AND unschooling, not just
unschooling.
Thanks for helping to clarify that.
Sunday