Re: [AlwaysLearning] Experience / local groups
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/02 1:05:51 AM, felesina@... writes:
<< I mean, do you all mix with the "homeschoolers" frequently?- am I really
going to be of help there? am I going to get a feeling of community and
support from a group that generally doesn't share my philosophy and have
children younger than mine? >>
I have a hard time at the groups, because I really can't sit and calmly talk
with someone about how hard it is to get her kid to finish his math. I don't
want to go into the whole thing at a group which isnt called "unschooling"
anything, and I feel hypocritical if I just smile wanly and nod. So it's too
much work, often, to be there.
What I've been doing is staying involved with the kids, doing things with
them, instead of sitting with the moms. And I try to get moms involved in
playing or whatever, but the only ones who do sometimes are the other
unschoolers (the other TWO unschoolers, Dave and Nancy Martinez, who seem to
be the only ones there these days).
For years I organized a weekly get-together and it was called "the Goof
Group" (formal name Albuquerque Unschoolers). Because of the name and
because I was the organizer, those who were structured just didn't talk about
it there. We just laughed and played--at parks, usually, or at my house
(when we had the bigger house) or sometimes a public place (children's museum
or some such). That was more comfortable conversationally and socially, but
logistically it got old. We grew a mound of lost'n'found stuff, the kids got
tired of helping prepare, be hosts, and clean up. I got tired of the kids
being tired of other kids messing with their stuff in inappropriate ways
(although breakage was usually light, there was sometimes some damage).
The group I'm most closely associated with now is field-trip crazed. Holly
and I go to some things, and she goes to some without me, and her dad takes
her swimming with them. Kirby and Marty don't go. They're at the gaming
shop on the meeting day anyway.
Because I'm not as needy (Holly being ten), maybe I'm less patient. Maybe
because I ran a group for seven years or so, I tire easily when things are
inefficient. And most of the families have kids in the six to eight year
range (and younger).
Sandra
<< I mean, do you all mix with the "homeschoolers" frequently?- am I really
going to be of help there? am I going to get a feeling of community and
support from a group that generally doesn't share my philosophy and have
children younger than mine? >>
I have a hard time at the groups, because I really can't sit and calmly talk
with someone about how hard it is to get her kid to finish his math. I don't
want to go into the whole thing at a group which isnt called "unschooling"
anything, and I feel hypocritical if I just smile wanly and nod. So it's too
much work, often, to be there.
What I've been doing is staying involved with the kids, doing things with
them, instead of sitting with the moms. And I try to get moms involved in
playing or whatever, but the only ones who do sometimes are the other
unschoolers (the other TWO unschoolers, Dave and Nancy Martinez, who seem to
be the only ones there these days).
For years I organized a weekly get-together and it was called "the Goof
Group" (formal name Albuquerque Unschoolers). Because of the name and
because I was the organizer, those who were structured just didn't talk about
it there. We just laughed and played--at parks, usually, or at my house
(when we had the bigger house) or sometimes a public place (children's museum
or some such). That was more comfortable conversationally and socially, but
logistically it got old. We grew a mound of lost'n'found stuff, the kids got
tired of helping prepare, be hosts, and clean up. I got tired of the kids
being tired of other kids messing with their stuff in inappropriate ways
(although breakage was usually light, there was sometimes some damage).
The group I'm most closely associated with now is field-trip crazed. Holly
and I go to some things, and she goes to some without me, and her dad takes
her swimming with them. Kirby and Marty don't go. They're at the gaming
shop on the meeting day anyway.
Because I'm not as needy (Holly being ten), maybe I'm less patient. Maybe
because I ran a group for seven years or so, I tire easily when things are
inefficient. And most of the families have kids in the six to eight year
range (and younger).
Sandra
Bronwen
>talk
> I have a hard time at the groups, because I really can't sit and calmly
> with someone about how hard it is to get her kid to finish his math.right..
I don't
> want to go into the whole thing at a group which isnt called "unschooling"too
> anything, and I feel hypocritical if I just smile wanly and nod. So it's
> much work, often, to be there.Right! I am pretty good at helping people see a new perspective but it
takes work, and that can only happen if they have actually asked me my
opinion, but mostly they are just talking about how they got him to finally
do the math. I think my friend who runs the group is afraid that if she
made it for "unschoolers" she would not have enough peopl in the group.
>to
> What I've been doing is staying involved with the kids, doing things with
> them, instead of sitting with the moms. And I try to get moms involved in
> playing or whatever, but the only ones who do sometimes are the other
> unschoolers (the other TWO unschoolers, Dave and Nancy Martinez, who seem
> be the only ones there these days).Yeah, I push my little guy in the swing alot.
>
> Because I'm not as needy (Holly being ten), maybe I'm less patient.Right- I feel like this is the first time I have deal with a group for long
because my 9 year old is into it enough to want to keep going, it never has
been a priority for us before (i would sometimes go to group alone because
my kids didnt want to come and I had to put my co-op order in or something)
. And most of the families have kids in the six to eight year
> range (and younger).Ours seems to be younger too- hmm.
THanks for writing- good to hear
Bronwen
Jorgen & Ann
>Right! I am pretty good at helping people see a new perspective but itWe have been sometimes more and sometimes less active in our group for
>
>takes work, and that can only happen if they have actually asked me my
>
>opinion, but mostly they are just talking about how they got him to finally
>
>do the math. I think my friend who runs the group is afraid that if she
>
>made it for "unschoolers" she would not have enough peopl in the group.
>
>Yeah, I push my little guy in the swing alot.
about 9 years. I take my cue from the kids. When the group activities are
"structured" (which here translates into most parents chit-chatting about
curriculum etc. and a couple of parents trying to do specific fake-y
activities with kids), my kids don't have much interest. We sometimes have
found sub-groups like chess day that work out well--I just hang with the
kids.
I don't think it matters how big a group is because getting together for
fun doesn't take a lot of people. We have been getting together with 2 or 3
unschooling families regularly for a few months and we are now advertising
this on our local loop. It is really fun, the kids and the parents have a
blast! This keeps my spirits up.
I also do the Scholastic thing for the big group. I promote using real
books, and can use that to lead chit chat into unschooling. My kids are
also happy to talk to people about their interests and how they have
learned things on their own, which sometimes interests adults.
Ann
Cindy
SandraDodd@... wrote:
4 years ago to do it but since Megan is 6.6667... I've not actually being
doing it with a school age child in the picture that long. The support group we
attend is full of all aged children (infant to early teens) but most of them
are either structured homeschoolers or the "I unschool except ..." type.
It's "in" to be an unschooler here in CA, I think. Since Alex is 4, I can
easily avoid sitting around talking to the other parents.
The group has a lot of "clubs" some mothers have started. They meet a couple
of times a month - the Globe Trotters Club is about geography and the Time
Travelers Club is about history. From what I hear the format of the club
is that the children sit and listen to a parent's 30 min. presentation and
then they do little projects related to that day's theme. The reason I
heard about it is that one of my friends was saying that she didn't think
her 6 year old son was ready for that; they tried it once and he had a hard
time sitting for the presentation. My reply and that of another mother
was that the expectations of the people running the clubs was unrealistic.
I try to support those who seem to be seeking and I stay away from the
others.
I find I get most of my support on-line. I am just now connecting with
some families who use the same charter school that I do - it is one which
is very supportive of unschooling. I see potential for good friends for my
children and good friends for me. With the "clubby" support group I have
given up on finding friends for me (HEY, BETSY - why don't you go any more???
Cos that statement doesn't include you!) but my children have friends they
wish to continue seeing. And this way I have the park and other adults around
instead of one on one time with the other parent if we did play dates!
I do find that on Wednesdays I have to give myself a good pep talk or else
I get cranky getting ready to go - Megan and Alex are easily distracted off
task - they really want to go but the Legoes, the books, the whatever is
so, so interesting compared to getting socks on, hair brushed, shoes on, etc.
So don't give up on all of us with young children. We're out there and some
of us "get it".
Sandra also wrote :
out on this homeschooling/unschooling path yet I find I agree with your
statement above. I'm in my late 40s, I'm perimenopausal and I'm tired of
inefficiency and a lot of the crap that goes along with group dynamics. I
don't need to be joined at the hip with another adult to go to a conference or
to take my kids interesting places. A lot of the mothers I know seem to
need that.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>I have the same problems too. I am relatively new to unschooling - I decided
> In a message dated 1/29/02 1:05:51 AM, felesina@... writes:
>
> << I mean, do you all mix with the "homeschoolers" frequently?- am I really
> going to be of help there? am I going to get a feeling of community and
> support from a group that generally doesn't share my philosophy and have
> children younger than mine? >>
>
> I have a hard time at the groups, because I really can't sit and calmly talk
> with someone about how hard it is to get her kid to finish his math. I don't
> want to go into the whole thing at a group which isnt called "unschooling"
> anything, and I feel hypocritical if I just smile wanly and nod. So it's too
> much work, often, to be there.
>
4 years ago to do it but since Megan is 6.6667... I've not actually being
doing it with a school age child in the picture that long. The support group we
attend is full of all aged children (infant to early teens) but most of them
are either structured homeschoolers or the "I unschool except ..." type.
It's "in" to be an unschooler here in CA, I think. Since Alex is 4, I can
easily avoid sitting around talking to the other parents.
The group has a lot of "clubs" some mothers have started. They meet a couple
of times a month - the Globe Trotters Club is about geography and the Time
Travelers Club is about history. From what I hear the format of the club
is that the children sit and listen to a parent's 30 min. presentation and
then they do little projects related to that day's theme. The reason I
heard about it is that one of my friends was saying that she didn't think
her 6 year old son was ready for that; they tried it once and he had a hard
time sitting for the presentation. My reply and that of another mother
was that the expectations of the people running the clubs was unrealistic.
I try to support those who seem to be seeking and I stay away from the
others.
I find I get most of my support on-line. I am just now connecting with
some families who use the same charter school that I do - it is one which
is very supportive of unschooling. I see potential for good friends for my
children and good friends for me. With the "clubby" support group I have
given up on finding friends for me (HEY, BETSY - why don't you go any more???
Cos that statement doesn't include you!) but my children have friends they
wish to continue seeing. And this way I have the park and other adults around
instead of one on one time with the other parent if we did play dates!
I do find that on Wednesdays I have to give myself a good pep talk or else
I get cranky getting ready to go - Megan and Alex are easily distracted off
task - they really want to go but the Legoes, the books, the whatever is
so, so interesting compared to getting socks on, hair brushed, shoes on, etc.
So don't give up on all of us with young children. We're out there and some
of us "get it".
Sandra also wrote :
> Because I'm not as needy (Holly being ten), maybe I'm less patient. MaybeOr maybe it's a maturity thing. My children are young, I'm pretty much starting
> because I ran a group for seven years or so, I tire easily when things are
> inefficient. And most of the families have kids in the six to eight year
> range (and younger).
>
out on this homeschooling/unschooling path yet I find I agree with your
statement above. I'm in my late 40s, I'm perimenopausal and I'm tired of
inefficiency and a lot of the crap that goes along with group dynamics. I
don't need to be joined at the hip with another adult to go to a conference or
to take my kids interesting places. A lot of the mothers I know seem to
need that.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
Jorgen & Ann
>The group has a lot of "clubs" some mothers have started. They meet a coupleIf a club is a kid-driven thing it can be really fun. In the chess club
>
>of times a month - the Globe Trotters Club is about geography and the Time
>
>Travelers Club is about history. From what I hear the format of the club
>
>is that the children sit and listen to a parent's 30 min. presentation and
>
>then they do little projects related to that day's theme. The reason I
>
>heard about it is that one of my friends was saying that she didn't think
>
>her 6 year old son was ready for that; they tried it once and he had a hard
>
>time sitting for the presentation. My reply and that of another mother
>
>was that the expectations of the people running the clubs was unrealistic.
>
>I try to support those who seem to be seeking and I stay away from the
>
>others.
we've been going to, the kids teach each other. It's so different from my
experiences trying to (and giving up on) learning chess when I was a kid. I
may even try to play at this advanced age.
It still amazes me to see homeschoolers who are so out of touch with kids
in general and their own kids. They plan such undoable activities geared to
the adults. And often they do *so many* activities, whether their kids want
to or not.
Ann
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/02 6:11:48 PM, crma@... writes:
<< My reply and that of another mother
was that the expectations of the people running the clubs was unrealistic.
I try to support those who seem to be seeking and I stay away from the
others. >>
Oooh.
One thing that sends a shiver down me is someone who goes to teach who is NOT
aware of any child developmental stages, or the motivations of kids at
different times of their lives, or their capabilities.
Worst case is the mother of an infant attributing understanding and
manipulation to pre-verbal babies. (That would be my mom explaining to me
that my brother knew EXACTLY what she was saying, and that he was being
manipulative. He was six months old. I was 19 and too smart to believe her.)
But there are programs in some states for scientists to get into the
classroom. There's an advantage. But a friend of mine was in a California
program which taught her vaguely how schools operate, are funded, what the
curriculum and scope and sequence were, but totally left out anything about
interpersonal relationships or human development.
Maybe that's another reason, now that I think of it, that I can really get
behind unschooling, and to some extent unit studies, but structured "lessons"
are bad from average teachers, and horrible from most total amateurs.
Tolerable, maybe, to half the people there if the teacher is somehow really
bubbly and sparkly.
If I won't subject my kids to professional teachers why would I set them with
often-frustrated and wholly-inexperienced people who might be believing that
this is the kid's one chance to get this information, whatever it is.
I'm rambling, on the edge of rant, so I'll quit. I don't like classes for
homeschoolers.
Sandra
<< My reply and that of another mother
was that the expectations of the people running the clubs was unrealistic.
I try to support those who seem to be seeking and I stay away from the
others. >>
Oooh.
One thing that sends a shiver down me is someone who goes to teach who is NOT
aware of any child developmental stages, or the motivations of kids at
different times of their lives, or their capabilities.
Worst case is the mother of an infant attributing understanding and
manipulation to pre-verbal babies. (That would be my mom explaining to me
that my brother knew EXACTLY what she was saying, and that he was being
manipulative. He was six months old. I was 19 and too smart to believe her.)
But there are programs in some states for scientists to get into the
classroom. There's an advantage. But a friend of mine was in a California
program which taught her vaguely how schools operate, are funded, what the
curriculum and scope and sequence were, but totally left out anything about
interpersonal relationships or human development.
Maybe that's another reason, now that I think of it, that I can really get
behind unschooling, and to some extent unit studies, but structured "lessons"
are bad from average teachers, and horrible from most total amateurs.
Tolerable, maybe, to half the people there if the teacher is somehow really
bubbly and sparkly.
If I won't subject my kids to professional teachers why would I set them with
often-frustrated and wholly-inexperienced people who might be believing that
this is the kid's one chance to get this information, whatever it is.
I'm rambling, on the edge of rant, so I'll quit. I don't like classes for
homeschoolers.
Sandra
[email protected]
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:09:58 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
especially when they're done in a "school-ish",or a developmentally
inappropriate way. I don't have a problem with classes in general,
though. Cacie and I met a woman at park day today who works as a clown,
and Cacie was begging her to run some classes on it. I suppose we could
just ask her to teach some stuff to Cacie, and offer to pay her maybe,
but Cacie generally likes learning stuff with other people around, 1:1
doesn't work as well, so that's basically a class.
For a while, there was a ranger working at one of the regional parks near
us, and Cacie wanted to do all of her classes. Sometimes they would
putter around in the cove and talk about stuff, sometimes they would do
crafts using natural materials, and sometimes they had hikes where they
talked about various ecological issues. The other rangers weren't as
good, though, and Megan was temporary, so once she left Cacie stopped
signing up for classes.
She didn't like classes of any kind until she was 7 or so, then she
suddenyl became interested.
*I* like classes. I really want to go back to college again once we
move, and take some classes. Some things are much easier for me to learn
when someone else structures it. Other things aren't, of course....
I don't necessarily think a bubbly, sparkly teacher is better. I kind of
find them annoying. I like smart teachers, who know and love their
subjects, and aren't defensive when questioned.
dar
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> I don't like classes forHmmm. I don't like the way many classes for homeschooler are done,
> homeschoolers.
especially when they're done in a "school-ish",or a developmentally
inappropriate way. I don't have a problem with classes in general,
though. Cacie and I met a woman at park day today who works as a clown,
and Cacie was begging her to run some classes on it. I suppose we could
just ask her to teach some stuff to Cacie, and offer to pay her maybe,
but Cacie generally likes learning stuff with other people around, 1:1
doesn't work as well, so that's basically a class.
For a while, there was a ranger working at one of the regional parks near
us, and Cacie wanted to do all of her classes. Sometimes they would
putter around in the cove and talk about stuff, sometimes they would do
crafts using natural materials, and sometimes they had hikes where they
talked about various ecological issues. The other rangers weren't as
good, though, and Megan was temporary, so once she left Cacie stopped
signing up for classes.
She didn't like classes of any kind until she was 7 or so, then she
suddenyl became interested.
*I* like classes. I really want to go back to college again once we
move, and take some classes. Some things are much easier for me to learn
when someone else structures it. Other things aren't, of course....
I don't necessarily think a bubbly, sparkly teacher is better. I kind of
find them annoying. I like smart teachers, who know and love their
subjects, and aren't defensive when questioned.
dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Cindy
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Poland and the reason she's homeschooling is so her son can get a 'good'
education. She tried when the children were 4 to understand unschooling
but she couldn't begin to understand the concept. She was unschooling.com's
list for a few months. We would discuss various topics from the list at the
park but either I'm not that good at communicating or she was not ready to
understand. I think the thing I don't like is the attitude of "what is
Cindy doing with Megan?" since I don't do their clubs.
I am extremely cautious about the classes Megan takes. After a disasterous
ballet class where the teacher wanted Megan to sit still and be quiet while
other students danced and pulled her screaming from the room for me to
discipline, I am very careful. (We never went back to that ballet school and
I told everyone who asked about it what happened. She was 3 at the time and
I'd signed up on the recommendation of a friend.)
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>I know one of the mothers who started these clubs fairly well. She's from
> In a message dated 1/29/02 6:11:48 PM, crma@... writes:
>
> << My reply and that of another mother
> was that the expectations of the people running the clubs was unrealistic.
> I try to support those who seem to be seeking and I stay away from the
> others. >>
>
> Oooh.
>
> One thing that sends a shiver down me is someone who goes to teach who is NOT
> aware of any child developmental stages, or the motivations of kids at
> different times of their lives, or their capabilities.
>
Poland and the reason she's homeschooling is so her son can get a 'good'
education. She tried when the children were 4 to understand unschooling
but she couldn't begin to understand the concept. She was unschooling.com's
list for a few months. We would discuss various topics from the list at the
park but either I'm not that good at communicating or she was not ready to
understand. I think the thing I don't like is the attitude of "what is
Cindy doing with Megan?" since I don't do their clubs.
I am extremely cautious about the classes Megan takes. After a disasterous
ballet class where the teacher wanted Megan to sit still and be quiet while
other students danced and pulled her screaming from the room for me to
discipline, I am very careful. (We never went back to that ballet school and
I told everyone who asked about it what happened. She was 3 at the time and
I'd signed up on the recommendation of a friend.)
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
to go to school, so we found her a
homeschooling academy that met one day a
week. She claimed she lvoed it until the new
semester was going to start and then said she
didn't want to return. I tried hard to
contain my joy (it was a pain and very much
like school and filled with a bunch of school
at homers, etc.) But one thing she said is
she wanted to have time with two of the kids
who went, and she asked for some of that time
to be learning time. So I got together with
the parents and kids and we decided to meet
once every week or every other week, for
about three hours. Together we would decide
what to do. The kids wanted to read Charlie
and the chocolate factory so they did that
and then we discussed it. It was REALLY
cool. Lexie and I came up with a bunch of
literary terms that were relavent, and we
talked about our favorite characters, the
terms, etc. The kids were involved, but the
two other moms and I had a lot of fun too.
The kids made fruit kabobs, and played a lot
too. Lexie said later it was exactly what
she was looking to do, what she wanted....
See, I think if it's kid directed, a class is
not such a bad thing. but then, I'm still
figureing this out. Lexie wants to take an
art class and a gymnastics class too.
Joylyn
---------------------------------------------
Joylyn
Mom to Lexie (6) and Janene (3)
For great nursing clothes and slings, go to
www.4mommyandme.com
"Wasn't it Mark Twain who said it takes a
very dull person to spell a word only one
way?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>what if they ask for it. Lexie REALLY wanted
> I'm rambling, on the edge of rant, so I'll
> quit. I don't like classes for
> homeschoolers.
to go to school, so we found her a
homeschooling academy that met one day a
week. She claimed she lvoed it until the new
semester was going to start and then said she
didn't want to return. I tried hard to
contain my joy (it was a pain and very much
like school and filled with a bunch of school
at homers, etc.) But one thing she said is
she wanted to have time with two of the kids
who went, and she asked for some of that time
to be learning time. So I got together with
the parents and kids and we decided to meet
once every week or every other week, for
about three hours. Together we would decide
what to do. The kids wanted to read Charlie
and the chocolate factory so they did that
and then we discussed it. It was REALLY
cool. Lexie and I came up with a bunch of
literary terms that were relavent, and we
talked about our favorite characters, the
terms, etc. The kids were involved, but the
two other moms and I had a lot of fun too.
The kids made fruit kabobs, and played a lot
too. Lexie said later it was exactly what
she was looking to do, what she wanted....
See, I think if it's kid directed, a class is
not such a bad thing. but then, I'm still
figureing this out. Lexie wants to take an
art class and a gymnastics class too.
Joylyn
>[]
> Sandra
>
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Joylyn
Mom to Lexie (6) and Janene (3)
For great nursing clothes and slings, go to
www.4mommyandme.com
"Wasn't it Mark Twain who said it takes a
very dull person to spell a word only one
way?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
You're right, if it's a kid-idea and kids honestly have freedom and input,
it's not so bad.
But I think the existence of a bunch of classes makes new homeschoolers think
that's how homeschooling needs to be. And for some it's a replacement for
not using a curriculum. And one problem I see is that when people are
checklisting, they look for
history
science
math
language arts
and then they quit looking.
The group we go to once a week is talking about starting science classes.
They already had geography but that's being put on hiatus for while because
the organizer's tired of it, or something. It keeps kids from playing if
they want to. It causes moms to get tense about how their children are
acting/being/paying attention/learning. And those around who are sensitive
to other people's moods just have to share the experience, and wonder whether
it's OUR kid who's making theirs jealous, uncomfortable, or whatever.
But having gone to some little series of geography classes or whatever, if
the parents' not an unschooler, they check it off. And I don't think they
will look for more geographical experiences for their child for a while.
I just think the existence of a checklist is itself a detriment to "always
learning."
Sandra
it's not so bad.
But I think the existence of a bunch of classes makes new homeschoolers think
that's how homeschooling needs to be. And for some it's a replacement for
not using a curriculum. And one problem I see is that when people are
checklisting, they look for
history
science
math
language arts
and then they quit looking.
The group we go to once a week is talking about starting science classes.
They already had geography but that's being put on hiatus for while because
the organizer's tired of it, or something. It keeps kids from playing if
they want to. It causes moms to get tense about how their children are
acting/being/paying attention/learning. And those around who are sensitive
to other people's moods just have to share the experience, and wonder whether
it's OUR kid who's making theirs jealous, uncomfortable, or whatever.
But having gone to some little series of geography classes or whatever, if
the parents' not an unschooler, they check it off. And I don't think they
will look for more geographical experiences for their child for a while.
I just think the existence of a checklist is itself a detriment to "always
learning."
Sandra