Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning]TV,Videoand unschooling
Nichoel
Terrie,
I fully understand what you are saying, can I ask an honest question? Do you think if your child had more exposure to tv he would stay mesmerized all the time by it? Or do you think that because it was so 'new' to him it was a source of fascination? I liken it to when I am on a 'diet'..When I am, and I try to 'limit' my sweets/fats, anytime I am around something sweet (chocolate is the worst!!) or fattening (French fries!!!) I almost feel like I HAVE to have them..It's a craving! But, when I am not on a 'diet' when I am just eating what I want and not counting calories or fat, then my consumption of those things are very easily limited..I can say "Nah I dont feel like that right now" much easier in those situations.
I'm not sure if that analogy is making sense, but do you think it's possible that by limiting the TV you will find that when the time comes for you and you DO introduce it, it will be something your son will want almost constantly because it is 'special' and 'new'?
And do you think that you will follow this type of an example for a lot of other things in your family's life? (Ie you decide whether or not it should be introduced and when, and set those limits for your son?) If so, what types of things do you see this being the 'norm' for?
Feel free if you'd like to continue this with me offlist if it would be more comfortable for you, I am enjoying our exchange as well but dont want you to feel like you are having to argue your points with anyone in order to answer my questions honestly =).
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
I fully understand what you are saying, can I ask an honest question? Do you think if your child had more exposure to tv he would stay mesmerized all the time by it? Or do you think that because it was so 'new' to him it was a source of fascination? I liken it to when I am on a 'diet'..When I am, and I try to 'limit' my sweets/fats, anytime I am around something sweet (chocolate is the worst!!) or fattening (French fries!!!) I almost feel like I HAVE to have them..It's a craving! But, when I am not on a 'diet' when I am just eating what I want and not counting calories or fat, then my consumption of those things are very easily limited..I can say "Nah I dont feel like that right now" much easier in those situations.
I'm not sure if that analogy is making sense, but do you think it's possible that by limiting the TV you will find that when the time comes for you and you DO introduce it, it will be something your son will want almost constantly because it is 'special' and 'new'?
And do you think that you will follow this type of an example for a lot of other things in your family's life? (Ie you decide whether or not it should be introduced and when, and set those limits for your son?) If so, what types of things do you see this being the 'norm' for?
Feel free if you'd like to continue this with me offlist if it would be more comfortable for you, I am enjoying our exchange as well but dont want you to feel like you are having to argue your points with anyone in order to answer my questions honestly =).
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning]TV,Videoand unschooling
Nichoel:
I cannot recall if I included this, but we have plans to at some point when
the time instinctively feels right, to include media such as televison,
because of several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it is
not avoidable in the wide world, and one needs to be educated about the
effects of media, the power it can have, and the lack of reality of much of
it. Also, I expect to enjoy with him, at the appropriate time, films and
video that add dimension to learning about the world at large. However at
a young age, I think he has enough important things to learn about his
little world he lives in and that is best done through his experiences with
his world, friends, environment etc.
My son has had a few unplanned tv viewings, and I was distressed by the
memorized state he went in to, and he wanted to be 1 inch away from it the
entire time. Also, my son has is spirited and passionate, easily
overstimulated by environments that are chaotic or noisy and hyper. My
instincts are that he is better off without tv for quite some time (videos
too, except we do view our family life videos on our computer, because it is
real to us and helps us enjoy our past and present.) I may add he is also
very verbal, surprisingly early, and loves to converse, is very social with
strangers and friends and seems to enjoy his life very much. He is
sensitive to the feelings of others, and easily concerned if he hears
another child crying, wanting to help or get him help. I feel good about
his little person and I think he does too. I feel good about protecting his
innocence and childhood at this time in his life. Childhood is short, life
compartively long, plenty of time to add vices, but hard to learn what life
would be like without them once vice is established.
Thanks for your civil discourse during this thread, I appreciate the ability
to discuss different choices without feeling or feeling the need to be
arguementative.
Terrie
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Joylyn
"Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa" wrote:
My son has had a few unplanned tv viewings,
and I was distressed by the
because he'd never seen it before? I often
wonder at our children, my daughter walks
down the isle of a store conversing with her
father on the cell phone without any idea
that this is a relatively new thing to do and
still a bit amazing to her mother. My 3 year
old asks daddy to "set it up so I can chat
with mommy" (aim chat) without any clue that
this is amazing. I think about how people
must have been memorized by indoor plumbing
at first, or, even better, talking movies.
This kind of reminds me of a scientific
America I saw, yes, on tv. It was very
interesting... here let me find the link...
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1110/resources/transcript.htm
the part that I find interesting and relevent
is:
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) We're back in the lab for another
experiment on
kids' attitudes to food. We're going to turn
one of
these foods
into forbidden fruit.
JENNIFER FISHER
In the beginning of this study we basically
are
offering
children a wheat cracker and a Goldfish
cracker, and we're
offering them
in equal amounts because we want children to
have
the ability to
have equal sort of access to both of these
foods.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) First they want to make sure the
kids will at
least eat
Goldfish. In fact they all eat a bit of both,
but not a lot of
anything. But
now, the status of Goldfish is about to be
transformed.
JENNIFER FISHER
In the second part, we're actually going to
change
the rules, so
that they can still have as many wheat
crackers as they
want, but the
Goldfish crackers are going to become off
limits. When
I ring the
bell, you guys are going to be able to eat
the Goldfish
crackers, okay?
So there are no goldfish crackers until we
ring the
bell.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) For an agonizing 5 minutes, those
delicious,
desirable,
fantastic Goldfish are absolutely
unobtainable.
JENNIFER FISHER
In one more minute I'm going to ring the
bell, OK?
Do you know
what that means when we ring the bell? OK.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) At last it's Goldfish time, and
you don't have
to be a
psychologist to figure out what happens. The
kids pig out.
It's a
forbidden fruit effect.
GIRL She got a
lot.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Clearly this isn't the way to
change kids'
eating habits.
JENNIFER FISHER
Paradoxically, restriction not only is not an
effective
way of
promoting moderation, but it seems to promote
the behaviors
that parents
intend to avoid by using that practice.
LORI FRANCIS Do
you know what tummy that is?
ELIZABETH
Empty.
LORI FRANCIS
That's an empty tummy, alright. What kind of
tummy is
this?
ELIZABETH Um
LORI FRANCIS
You'd be full, right? How do you feel right
now?
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) In our next experiment, we're
working with
kids who've
just had a meal. They shouldn't feel hungry.
ELIZABETH Full.
LORI FRANCIS
It's full. OK. We've got pretzels, peanuts
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Now Elizabeth is shown a large
tray of
snacks - chips,
ice cream, cookies -- and popcorn, which she
likes.
LORI FRANCIS
and chocolate chip cookies. Alright? Now I
need to
go next door
for about ten minutes to do some work,
alright? I'm just
going to leave
this. This is extra food that we have. If you
don't want
it, you know,
you don't have to eat it, but if you want to,
you can eat
anything you
want. And we also have this box of toys here,
this pen
here, it's a
drawing pen, so, you can write on that. So,
I'm going to
leave this box
with you and I'm also going to leave the tray
with you.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Elizabeth, once left alone,
behaves in a way
that might
surprise you. She ignores the food.
LEANN BIRCH So
far at least, Elizabeth is um not terribly
interested
in eating.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) It takes a while before, bored
with the toys,
she finally
gets around to trying just some popcorn - her
favorite
food. Now take
a look at Morgan. When he's left alone he
digs in.
Here's the
important point. Morgan comes from a home
where access
to these
attractive sweet or salty snack foods is
strictly controlled,
whereas
Elizabeth is unrestricted.
LEANN BIRCH
Parents who tended to use a fair amount of
restrictive
feeding
practices -- namely parents who are concerned
about their
kids consuming
too many of these kinds of palatable foods
and who
restricted
their kids' opportunities to eat those things
-- actually had
the children
who ate the most.
JEN SHUNK If
you came home and had any one of those snack
foods
without asking
your parents first, would they be upset? And
when
you have ice
cream, can you have as much as you want, or
does
your mom dish
out a certain amount for you?
MORGAN She
dishes out a certain amount for me.
JEN SHUNK And
if you want more, does she let you have more?
No?
MORGAN Just
one.
JEN SHUNK Just
one.
LEANN BIRCH
Restriction actually tends to foster
consumption in the
absence of
hunger in children, and increased interest in
the very
foods that
parents think children shouldn't be eating,
and
conversely,
pressuring children to eat, er, healthy foods
tends to
turn them off,
with respect to those foods. So what do you
do
instead? I
would think, as a parent, that's really the
tough part. I
think there are
a couple of things. One is, we need to help
parents
to understand
what are reasonable portion sizes for
children, so that
parents have
reasonable expectations about how much foods
kids
need to eat.
The other thing is we need to, I think, help
parents to
appreciate how
children learn to like foods that aren't
sweet and
that aren't
salty. And the way that you do that is you
have to, I
think, be
pretty patient as a parent. We know that kids
initially reject
a lot of new
foods unless they're sweet or salty, and it's
only with
repeated
presentations, non-coercive presentations,
that kids learn
to eat a lot of
those foods.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Without that kind of perceptive
parenting,
our kids are
caught in two terrible traps. First we say
finish your
food, then we
put too much food on the plate. Then we say
that high
fat, high
calorie snack foods are forbidden -- so kids
want to binge
on them. But it
gets worse. Take a look at our next story.
OK there is a LOT more, and it's really
interestinga nd worth going to read, but the
point is, I wonder if for kids who are
forbidden something, that they want it more.
Even if it's tv.
You say below he is verbal--I'm sure he has
an opinion.
describe my children too, and they watch tv.
hmmm maybe it's not the tv so much but the
parent. (can I blame it on me?) or maybe
it's just the kid?
too. I want them to be kids. We, my kids
and I, talk about this a lot. I don't forbid
Lexie to watch things, but I do highly
suggest that something isn't appropriate for
a six year old. However, on occassion I have
let her watch something I felt was not
appropriate. A good example of this was the
show that came on after star trek. She
watched it 3-4 times, it's like a cross
between a cop show and the x files, can't
remember the name. Anyway, on the 5th or so
show, she got scared! She has not watched it
since and she's more willing to listen to me
when I say something isn't appropriate. I
also came intot he room and she was reading
one of my holocaust books. She is six, and I
just am not ready for her to go there. I
asked her to trust me on this and wait. She
said ok. Id idn't move the books or box them
up or get rid of them. They are still
available to her. But because I trust her
and she trusts me, I don't think she will
read them.
I don't think anyone on this list wants our
children to loose their innocence
prematurely, I think we (or me, I should only
speak for myself) are working hard at seeing
our children as independent beings with
wonderful minds and the ability to make
choices for themselves.
Joylyn
[Click Here!]
Joylyn
Mom to Lexie (6) and Janene (3)
For great nursing clothes and slings, go to
www.4mommyandme.com
"Wasn't it Mark Twain who said it takes a
very dull person to spell a word only one
way?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son has had a few unplanned tv viewings,
and I was distressed by the
> memorized state he went in to, and hehmm, wonder if he was so memorized by the tv
> wanted to be 1 inch away from it the
> entire time.
because he'd never seen it before? I often
wonder at our children, my daughter walks
down the isle of a store conversing with her
father on the cell phone without any idea
that this is a relatively new thing to do and
still a bit amazing to her mother. My 3 year
old asks daddy to "set it up so I can chat
with mommy" (aim chat) without any clue that
this is amazing. I think about how people
must have been memorized by indoor plumbing
at first, or, even better, talking movies.
This kind of reminds me of a scientific
America I saw, yes, on tv. It was very
interesting... here let me find the link...
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1110/resources/transcript.htm
the part that I find interesting and relevent
is:
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) We're back in the lab for another
experiment on
kids' attitudes to food. We're going to turn
one of
these foods
into forbidden fruit.
JENNIFER FISHER
In the beginning of this study we basically
are
offering
children a wheat cracker and a Goldfish
cracker, and we're
offering them
in equal amounts because we want children to
have
the ability to
have equal sort of access to both of these
foods.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) First they want to make sure the
kids will at
least eat
Goldfish. In fact they all eat a bit of both,
but not a lot of
anything. But
now, the status of Goldfish is about to be
transformed.
JENNIFER FISHER
In the second part, we're actually going to
change
the rules, so
that they can still have as many wheat
crackers as they
want, but the
Goldfish crackers are going to become off
limits. When
I ring the
bell, you guys are going to be able to eat
the Goldfish
crackers, okay?
So there are no goldfish crackers until we
ring the
bell.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) For an agonizing 5 minutes, those
delicious,
desirable,
fantastic Goldfish are absolutely
unobtainable.
JENNIFER FISHER
In one more minute I'm going to ring the
bell, OK?
Do you know
what that means when we ring the bell? OK.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) At last it's Goldfish time, and
you don't have
to be a
psychologist to figure out what happens. The
kids pig out.
It's a
forbidden fruit effect.
GIRL She got a
lot.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Clearly this isn't the way to
change kids'
eating habits.
JENNIFER FISHER
Paradoxically, restriction not only is not an
effective
way of
promoting moderation, but it seems to promote
the behaviors
that parents
intend to avoid by using that practice.
LORI FRANCIS Do
you know what tummy that is?
ELIZABETH
Empty.
LORI FRANCIS
That's an empty tummy, alright. What kind of
tummy is
this?
ELIZABETH Um
LORI FRANCIS
You'd be full, right? How do you feel right
now?
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) In our next experiment, we're
working with
kids who've
just had a meal. They shouldn't feel hungry.
ELIZABETH Full.
LORI FRANCIS
It's full. OK. We've got pretzels, peanuts
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Now Elizabeth is shown a large
tray of
snacks - chips,
ice cream, cookies -- and popcorn, which she
likes.
LORI FRANCIS
and chocolate chip cookies. Alright? Now I
need to
go next door
for about ten minutes to do some work,
alright? I'm just
going to leave
this. This is extra food that we have. If you
don't want
it, you know,
you don't have to eat it, but if you want to,
you can eat
anything you
want. And we also have this box of toys here,
this pen
here, it's a
drawing pen, so, you can write on that. So,
I'm going to
leave this box
with you and I'm also going to leave the tray
with you.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Elizabeth, once left alone,
behaves in a way
that might
surprise you. She ignores the food.
LEANN BIRCH So
far at least, Elizabeth is um not terribly
interested
in eating.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) It takes a while before, bored
with the toys,
she finally
gets around to trying just some popcorn - her
favorite
food. Now take
a look at Morgan. When he's left alone he
digs in.
Here's the
important point. Morgan comes from a home
where access
to these
attractive sweet or salty snack foods is
strictly controlled,
whereas
Elizabeth is unrestricted.
LEANN BIRCH
Parents who tended to use a fair amount of
restrictive
feeding
practices -- namely parents who are concerned
about their
kids consuming
too many of these kinds of palatable foods
and who
restricted
their kids' opportunities to eat those things
-- actually had
the children
who ate the most.
JEN SHUNK If
you came home and had any one of those snack
foods
without asking
your parents first, would they be upset? And
when
you have ice
cream, can you have as much as you want, or
does
your mom dish
out a certain amount for you?
MORGAN She
dishes out a certain amount for me.
JEN SHUNK And
if you want more, does she let you have more?
No?
MORGAN Just
one.
JEN SHUNK Just
one.
LEANN BIRCH
Restriction actually tends to foster
consumption in the
absence of
hunger in children, and increased interest in
the very
foods that
parents think children shouldn't be eating,
and
conversely,
pressuring children to eat, er, healthy foods
tends to
turn them off,
with respect to those foods. So what do you
do
instead? I
would think, as a parent, that's really the
tough part. I
think there are
a couple of things. One is, we need to help
parents
to understand
what are reasonable portion sizes for
children, so that
parents have
reasonable expectations about how much foods
kids
need to eat.
The other thing is we need to, I think, help
parents to
appreciate how
children learn to like foods that aren't
sweet and
that aren't
salty. And the way that you do that is you
have to, I
think, be
pretty patient as a parent. We know that kids
initially reject
a lot of new
foods unless they're sweet or salty, and it's
only with
repeated
presentations, non-coercive presentations,
that kids learn
to eat a lot of
those foods.
ALAN ALDA
(NARRATION) Without that kind of perceptive
parenting,
our kids are
caught in two terrible traps. First we say
finish your
food, then we
put too much food on the plate. Then we say
that high
fat, high
calorie snack foods are forbidden -- so kids
want to binge
on them. But it
gets worse. Take a look at our next story.
OK there is a LOT more, and it's really
interestinga nd worth going to read, but the
point is, I wonder if for kids who are
forbidden something, that they want it more.
Even if it's tv.
> Also, my son has is spirited andBut what does he think? What is his opinion?
> passionate, easily
> overstimulated by environments that are
> chaotic or noisy and hyper. My
> instincts are that he is better off without
> tv for quite some time
You say below he is verbal--I'm sure he has
an opinion.
> (videos:-) you obviously love him very much. You
> too, except we do view our family life
> videos on our computer, because it is
> real to us and helps us enjoy our past and
> present.) I may add he is also
> very verbal, surprisingly early, and loves
> to converse, is very social with
> strangers and friends and seems to enjoy
> his life very much. He is
> sensitive to the feelings of others, and
> easily concerned if he hears
> another child crying, wanting to help or
> get him help. I feel good about
> his little person and I think he does too.
describe my children too, and they watch tv.
hmmm maybe it's not the tv so much but the
parent. (can I blame it on me?) or maybe
it's just the kid?
> I feel good about protecting hisI want to protect my children's innocence
> innocence and childhood at this time in his
> life. Childhood is short, life
> compartively long, plenty of time to add
> vices, but hard to learn what life
> would be like without them once vice is
> established.
too. I want them to be kids. We, my kids
and I, talk about this a lot. I don't forbid
Lexie to watch things, but I do highly
suggest that something isn't appropriate for
a six year old. However, on occassion I have
let her watch something I felt was not
appropriate. A good example of this was the
show that came on after star trek. She
watched it 3-4 times, it's like a cross
between a cop show and the x files, can't
remember the name. Anyway, on the 5th or so
show, she got scared! She has not watched it
since and she's more willing to listen to me
when I say something isn't appropriate. I
also came intot he room and she was reading
one of my holocaust books. She is six, and I
just am not ready for her to go there. I
asked her to trust me on this and wait. She
said ok. Id idn't move the books or box them
up or get rid of them. They are still
available to her. But because I trust her
and she trusts me, I don't think she will
read them.
I don't think anyone on this list wants our
children to loose their innocence
prematurely, I think we (or me, I should only
speak for myself) are working hard at seeing
our children as independent beings with
wonderful minds and the ability to make
choices for themselves.
>but sometimes I like to argue. :-)
> Thanks for your civil discourse during this
> thread, I appreciate the ability
> to discuss different choices without
> feeling or feeling the need to be
> arguementative.
Joylyn
>ADVERTISEMENT
>
> Terrie
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
[Click Here!]
>--
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Joylyn
Mom to Lexie (6) and Janene (3)
For great nursing clothes and slings, go to
www.4mommyandme.com
"Wasn't it Mark Twain who said it takes a
very dull person to spell a word only one
way?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]