Re: [AlwaysLearning] Digest Number 163
[email protected]
WOW! I'm gone for 1/2 the day and come home to a storm of activity here.
Those that are newer to unschooling, or have younger children...
Can't you see that some people are just standing on the other side right now,
and offering the wisdom of years and experience on this? Not to put anyone
down, but if you're new to Unschooling and/or have very young children then
many of us have stood where you are...you have not stood where we are today.
That's not a bad thing or a put down. It's just true. And when someone is
standing on the other side of something, and I trust the person and their
advice, then I try to assimilate what they are telling me and not take
offense.
Sandra and Pam (and others) have been successfully UNSCHOOLING for a long
time, they can offer ways of applying this philosophy to other areas of life
outside of the "educational" realm.
It pays to at least think it through and not shun their words of wisdom.
Someone wondered if the tv users could live without one, or if their children
would choose not to have one.
When there is a tv in your home, the children have total choice at any time
to be non tv viewers or tv viewers.
When there is not a tv in your home the children's choices have been limited
by YOU. And only you. Would you be comfortable letting them choose? If not,
why?
I have lived without one, my children prefer having one.
I had a similar experience to Pam (I think it was you Pam??)
about a child that seemed to have a bad reaction to extended tv viewing.
After a heated debate like this (actually a series of them) I let go of my
control.
I talked with my son about the times he got aggressive after viewing and we
worked on ways of helping him be aware of it.
Turns out, any extended period of inactivity brings out the aggressive type
behavior, not just the tv, which I blamed solely for the problem!!
If he's cooped up in the house too long and can't get very physical, he gets
grumpy.
He NEEDS physical activity. But he's learned to recognize his own needs and
he knows how to deal with it with very little verbal prompting to remind him.
Taking away the tv would have not taught him any self control.
The mom that is not allowing ANY tv at the expense of others,
the backlash WILL come, believe me.
Your child can not be hidden from real life forever.
You are not doing them any service by sheltering your ds from even knowing
what a tv is. I think the time with Grandma was more important than any
"protection" you offered him by hiding in the bedroom while renting a house
with her.
You are hurting his relationship with someone important in his life. THAT is
more damaging than anything he could see on tv. You are sending a huge
message that Grandma is WRONG and you are right.
Great if you want a self righteous child. And one that is confused about his
relationship and what's really important in life.
I can't imagine taking control to that extent that you would hide him in the
bedroom during a family get together at the expense of his time with her.
That is in direct conflict to Unschooling ideas.
Ren
Those that are newer to unschooling, or have younger children...
Can't you see that some people are just standing on the other side right now,
and offering the wisdom of years and experience on this? Not to put anyone
down, but if you're new to Unschooling and/or have very young children then
many of us have stood where you are...you have not stood where we are today.
That's not a bad thing or a put down. It's just true. And when someone is
standing on the other side of something, and I trust the person and their
advice, then I try to assimilate what they are telling me and not take
offense.
Sandra and Pam (and others) have been successfully UNSCHOOLING for a long
time, they can offer ways of applying this philosophy to other areas of life
outside of the "educational" realm.
It pays to at least think it through and not shun their words of wisdom.
Someone wondered if the tv users could live without one, or if their children
would choose not to have one.
When there is a tv in your home, the children have total choice at any time
to be non tv viewers or tv viewers.
When there is not a tv in your home the children's choices have been limited
by YOU. And only you. Would you be comfortable letting them choose? If not,
why?
I have lived without one, my children prefer having one.
I had a similar experience to Pam (I think it was you Pam??)
about a child that seemed to have a bad reaction to extended tv viewing.
After a heated debate like this (actually a series of them) I let go of my
control.
I talked with my son about the times he got aggressive after viewing and we
worked on ways of helping him be aware of it.
Turns out, any extended period of inactivity brings out the aggressive type
behavior, not just the tv, which I blamed solely for the problem!!
If he's cooped up in the house too long and can't get very physical, he gets
grumpy.
He NEEDS physical activity. But he's learned to recognize his own needs and
he knows how to deal with it with very little verbal prompting to remind him.
Taking away the tv would have not taught him any self control.
The mom that is not allowing ANY tv at the expense of others,
the backlash WILL come, believe me.
Your child can not be hidden from real life forever.
You are not doing them any service by sheltering your ds from even knowing
what a tv is. I think the time with Grandma was more important than any
"protection" you offered him by hiding in the bedroom while renting a house
with her.
You are hurting his relationship with someone important in his life. THAT is
more damaging than anything he could see on tv. You are sending a huge
message that Grandma is WRONG and you are right.
Great if you want a self righteous child. And one that is confused about his
relationship and what's really important in life.
I can't imagine taking control to that extent that you would hide him in the
bedroom during a family get together at the expense of his time with her.
That is in direct conflict to Unschooling ideas.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/2002 6:23:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
discussions. They so often boil down to some people deciding to believe some
"experts" because, imo, they're afraid the experts just might be right and
they're afraid of ruining their kids and that it'll be all their fault
because they didn't listen to the experts. But here we are on an unschooling
list where we've not only rejected the traditional educational experts, we've
rejected most of the homeschooling experts, too. Guess we're just an arrogant
bunch.
I also so often get the feeling that there is a certain amount of magical
wishful thinking in totally banning tv from kids. It sometimes sounds like a
sacrifice parents make that they hope will be rewarded with protection of
their kids from some sort of danger.
As a mom, I understand the urge to protect our kids, of course. And I
certainly wish there was something magic that I could do to protect them -
something I could sacrifice that would make them safer in this world.
But the arguments against tv don't ring true to me - based on my own
experience. (1)The argument that there is nothing good on tv - nothing of
value, for example. That is so obviously not true - we've listed many things
of value and that's just a small sampling of the great stuff on tv. (2)The
argument that the commercials are bad for kids is often made - but there is a
LOT of noncommercial tv and we usually tape anything on commercial tv and zap
through the commercials anyway. (3)The argument that tv-watching is sedentary
and bad for the kids health is made. But I've heard person after person point
out that the kids will NOT just sit and watch tv all day every day for years.
They'll go out and play and be active, tv-watching is just a small part of
their lives. It isn't logical to argue that tv watching is too sedentary
unless you don't let them sit and read, either. (4)People have argued that it
is a passive activity - my first reaction is, so what? It is okay to be
passive sometimes. Second, it isn't all that passive for most of our
children. We've talked about how they interact and dance and sing and most of
all they THINK while watching tv.
So - there ya go -- like many people here, I reject the experts who say
things like a kid watching tv is in an almost coma-like state because I've
seen my kids and other kids and it just is so obviously not true. I reject
the experts who say kids won't read because I've seen my kids and it isn't
true. I reject those experts the same way I reject those experts who say kids
have to be taught in a systematic programmed way or they won't learn. Again,
I just look at my kids and it is so obviously untrue that it even gives me
the confidence to doubt the experts in other areas. Our kids aren't just
"average kids." Our kids aren't being "schooled" (at home or in a classroom)
and everything is different because of that. We ought to always question
whether any expert's advice applies to our kids.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> There are lots of professional educators we could quote here to refute whatThis is the crux of the frustration, to me, of all of these kinds of
> we know from experience works, as unschoolers. If someone comes here and
> quotes some professional educator's opinion of unschooling, nobody here
> bursts into tears and puts a kid in school. And those who have let loose
> the
> TV reins will not be swayed by one doctor citing some study that says
> someth
> ing we see NOT to be true in ourselves and our chilren.
discussions. They so often boil down to some people deciding to believe some
"experts" because, imo, they're afraid the experts just might be right and
they're afraid of ruining their kids and that it'll be all their fault
because they didn't listen to the experts. But here we are on an unschooling
list where we've not only rejected the traditional educational experts, we've
rejected most of the homeschooling experts, too. Guess we're just an arrogant
bunch.
I also so often get the feeling that there is a certain amount of magical
wishful thinking in totally banning tv from kids. It sometimes sounds like a
sacrifice parents make that they hope will be rewarded with protection of
their kids from some sort of danger.
As a mom, I understand the urge to protect our kids, of course. And I
certainly wish there was something magic that I could do to protect them -
something I could sacrifice that would make them safer in this world.
But the arguments against tv don't ring true to me - based on my own
experience. (1)The argument that there is nothing good on tv - nothing of
value, for example. That is so obviously not true - we've listed many things
of value and that's just a small sampling of the great stuff on tv. (2)The
argument that the commercials are bad for kids is often made - but there is a
LOT of noncommercial tv and we usually tape anything on commercial tv and zap
through the commercials anyway. (3)The argument that tv-watching is sedentary
and bad for the kids health is made. But I've heard person after person point
out that the kids will NOT just sit and watch tv all day every day for years.
They'll go out and play and be active, tv-watching is just a small part of
their lives. It isn't logical to argue that tv watching is too sedentary
unless you don't let them sit and read, either. (4)People have argued that it
is a passive activity - my first reaction is, so what? It is okay to be
passive sometimes. Second, it isn't all that passive for most of our
children. We've talked about how they interact and dance and sing and most of
all they THINK while watching tv.
So - there ya go -- like many people here, I reject the experts who say
things like a kid watching tv is in an almost coma-like state because I've
seen my kids and other kids and it just is so obviously not true. I reject
the experts who say kids won't read because I've seen my kids and it isn't
true. I reject those experts the same way I reject those experts who say kids
have to be taught in a systematic programmed way or they won't learn. Again,
I just look at my kids and it is so obviously untrue that it even gives me
the confidence to doubt the experts in other areas. Our kids aren't just
"average kids." Our kids aren't being "schooled" (at home or in a classroom)
and everything is different because of that. We ought to always question
whether any expert's advice applies to our kids.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]