thehomeopathicway

Hi,



I have not posted here for over a year when I first began what I thought
was unschooling. Of course I had no idea what I was talking about. I
have 2 kids, dd 10 and ds 16. They both attended ps until about a year
and a half ago when I took them both out at their request. At the time,
we lived in CA in an area where there were no other homeschool (let
alone unschooling) kids. We have since moved to Portland, OR and things
are very different here.



Here are the things I am struggling with now:



First, my dd insisted on going back to ps when we moved here. She says
she loves school. Sometimes she says she doesn't want to go, and I
always encourage her to stay home (even though the school has 'talked'
to us about too many missed days). Next year is Jr. High for her and I
REALLY want her to give it a miss. She really wants to go to school.
Am I being selfish in wanting her home? She is very bright and as a
home learner last year, she found some amazing things to do. She loves
to be busy and she is very social. Are some kids really better off in
school? I want to insist she try unschooling again but that seems so
un-unschooling-ish. Is it?

I have watched her change as she tries to fit in with all the various
social groups in school and it makes me feel sad that she feels
compelled to do that.



My ds has taken to being free very well. He would never go back. He
always enjoyed the learning part of school but not the social scene and
the peer pressure. He has gone through lots of changes in the past
year. I am sure he would not have had the opportunity to explore his
own mind in so much depth if he hadn't been unschooling. He is a very
deep thinker and he spends hours and hours talking to people from all
over the world on line. He is also fascinated with metaphysics. He has
his own radio show where he interviews leaders of strange religions and
cults. He takes acting classes and is in 2 plays at the moment. He is
doing a wonderful job of teaching me how to be more tolerant and
accepting (through his work and through his personal choices). I have a
hard time not getting crazy when he stays up all night talking to people
on the other side of the world and then sleeps half the day. Then I
have to ask myself why it matters when he sleeps and when he is awake?
Then I think, how will he ever learn responsibility and be able to work
or go to college? Do other parents of teens go through this? What do
you do?



I have also gone through lots of changes. I thought I knew what
unschooling was when I started. Now I think it's more a way of life
than a thing. I have loved it and hated it. For me, dealing with my
own feelings about things has been the hardest and most rewarding part.
The clearer I get, the more peace I have.



As a single mother, with no father in the picture, I think about how my
son will become a man. I think about how his having complete freedom
now will impact his future. I wonder if this path is really better in
the long run. Then things happen to bring me back to feeling absolutely
right about where we are. The other day, an old friend called to tell
me that his ds age 17 was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Talk about
perspective. That very day, my ds asked me if I had time to help him
make chocolate dipped strawberries and pretzels. Of course there was
time. Later he told me how much fun it had been for him. He told me
how much he loved his life now.

I have lots of family members and friends that tell me constantly how
his happiness now is not enough to justify the damage that his lifestyle
will do to his future life. Could that be true?





Thanks for listening.

Dianna

thehomeopathicway@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Sometimes she says she doesn't want to go, and I
always encourage her to stay home (even though the school has 'talked'
to us about too many missed days).-=-

This could be a serious problem. If she's enrolled, she's subject to
the laws pertaining to school kids. YOU are subject to the laws.
And truancy is a crime. You don't want to have to get a lawyer and
pay a fine.

-=-Next year is Jr. High for her and I REALLY want her to give it a
miss. She really wants to go to school. Am I being selfish in
wanting her home? -=-

If school is more fun for her than home was, then it would be worse
than selfish to want her home. If home had been more exciting
(stimulating, comfortable) than school, she'd be home.

-=-She is very bright and as a home learner last year, she found some
amazing things to do. -=-

Did you find her some amazing things to do too? If she was having to
do all the finding and doing, maybe that's why school is preferable.
Or maybe she just liked being with the kids better.

-=-Are some kids really better off in school? -=-

I think so. Some people take a political or paranoid stance and say
school is evil, but I take the stance that learning can be fun (and
that without any fun, there'll be little to no real learning). If
school is more fun, she'll be learning better there.

-=-I want to insist she try unschooling again but that seems so
un-unschooling-ish. Is it?-=-

It's not about unschooling one way or the other. One of the worst
things about school is a child being there against his will. Your
daughter isn't having that problem. School is her option and her
choice, so it's probably better for her than for the other kids there.

If you force her home, you'll be re-creating one of the worst things
about school. She won't be happy and you won't be happy.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I have a
hard time not getting crazy when he stays up all night talking to people
on the other side of the world and then sleeps half the day. Then I
have to ask myself why it matters when he sleeps and when he is awake?
Then I think, how will he ever learn responsibility and be able to work
or go to college? Do other parents of teens go through this? -=-

There are some things to make you feel better here:

http://sandradodd.com/sleeping

http://sandradodd.com/teens

http://sandradodd.com/teen

-=-I have lots of family members and friends that tell me constantly
how his happiness now is not enough to justify the damage that his
lifestyle will do to his future life. Could that be true?-=-

Do any of them have radio shows or international friends who'll talk
to them late at night? Are they in any theatre productions?

Maybe they'll want to read some of the links you find when you're in
on those pages.

Maybe you could invite them to detail their concerns in writing.
Then put them in a sealed envelope, open it in two years or so and
write them a report.

Sandra

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thehomeopathicway

> -=-Sometimes she says she doesn't want to go, and I
> always encourage her to stay home (even though the school
has 'talked'
> to us about too many missed days).-=-
>
> This could be a serious problem. If she's enrolled, she's subject
to
> the laws pertaining to school kids. YOU are subject to the laws.
> And truancy is a crime. You don't want to have to get a lawyer
and
> pay a fine.

Every time she has stayed home, it's been because she told me she
didn't feel well. I don't think it's been excessive but her teacher
asked me once why she was out. I told her she wasn't feeling well.
She is the kind of kid who needs to get all A's or she can't cope.
Sometimes the stress get's too much for her and she gets sick. This
is not the way of our house. I put no pressure on her but she hears
what 'the family' says about her brother and she doesn't want to end
up like him. I always tell her the main goal is to enjoy her time
there but she says she has to go to a good college. And yes, I told
her that college's don't look at your 5th grade report card and
reject you if you get a B+ on Math instead of an A.

>
> -=-Next year is Jr. High for her and I REALLY want her to give it
a
> miss. She really wants to go to school. Am I being selfish in
> wanting her home? -=-
>
> If school is more fun for her than home was, then it would be
worse
> than selfish to want her home. If home had been more exciting
> (stimulating, comfortable) than school, she'd be home.

I think sometimes home is more fun and sometimes school is more fun.
She loves to be around other kids and that is the main difference.

>
> -=-She is very bright and as a home learner last year, she found
some
> amazing things to do. -=-
>
> Did you find her some amazing things to do too? If she was having
to
> do all the finding and doing, maybe that's why school is
preferable.
> Or maybe she just liked being with the kids better.

I think I am a pretty creative mom and I did bring a lot of cool
stuff to her home education experience. When we moved to a new
state, she just wanted to meet friends. Now that she has them, she
doesn't want to loose them.

>
> -=-Are some kids really better off in school? -=-
>
> I think so. Some people take a political or paranoid stance and
say
> school is evil, but I take the stance that learning can be fun
(and
> that without any fun, there'll be little to no real learning). If
> school is more fun, she'll be learning better there.

thank you for that.

>
> -=-I want to insist she try unschooling again but that seems so
> un-unschooling-ish. Is it?-=-
>
> It's not about unschooling one way or the other. One of the worst
> things about school is a child being there against his will. Your
> daughter isn't having that problem. School is her option and her
> choice, so it's probably better for her than for the other kids
there.
>
> If you force her home, you'll be re-creating one of the worst
things
> about school. She won't be happy and you won't be happy.
>

Do you think it would be OK for me to take her to the unschooling
conference in Vancouver, WA in May? I thought maybe if she met other
kids that were self learners that she liked and could be friends
with, she may feel more at ease to consider an option to school.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your honesty.

thehomeopathicway

> Do any of them have radio shows or international friends who'll talk
> to them late at night? Are they in any theatre productions?

Thank you so much for pointing this out. It's so obvious! No, none of
them have anything like any of those things. He just told me he wants
to teach a class on the history of the occult and he wants to look for
a venue to do such a thing. So, not your run of the mill goal but
still pretty cool. Oh and he is teaching himself how to play Sympathy
for the Devil on the keyboard as I type this.

>
> Maybe they'll want to read some of the links you find when you're in
> on those pages.
>
Yes, maybe. If not, I guess they aren't that interested in his well
being, just being right. Thank you for the links, they helped.

One of the things I think is ture for me is that when I judge him and
his choices, it's almost always really about me and my unresolved
fears. Perhaps that is true for others too. I am kind of a mama bear
and I won't stand for anyone saying anything negative about my kids
(either to me or to their face). Not that they are perfect, but if I
don't think so...who will?

diana jenner

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:55 PM, thehomeopathicway <
thehomeopathicway@...> wrote:

>
> We have since moved to Portland, OR and things
> are very different here.
>
>





hi from corvallis :) (just 1.5hrs south of you!) After moving from South
Dakota, I agree, Things are veeery different 'round here and we're loving
it!! <3


> First, my dd insisted on going back to ps when we moved here. She says
> she loves school. Sometimes she says she doesn't want to go, and I
> always encourage her to stay home (even though the school has 'talked'
> to us about too many missed days). Next year is Jr. High for her and I
> REALLY want her to give it a miss. She really wants to go to school.
> Am I being selfish in wanting her home? She is very bright and as a
> home learner last year, she found some amazing things to do. She loves
> to be busy and she is very social. Are some kids really better off in
> school? I want to insist she try unschooling again but that seems so
> un-unschooling-ish. Is it?
>












It's not unschooling and I'm not advocating it... there is a Free School in
Portland, where you dd could feel like she's "part of a school" AND have the
freedom to follow her own path. I only know this school exists because
they're coming to the Life is Good
Conference<http://lifeisgoodconference.com>in May... It's an option
and it's an option between unschooling and
traditional school -- a compromise of sorts :)

As a single mother, with no father in the picture, I think about how my
> son will become a man. I think about how his having complete freedom
> now will impact his future. I wonder if this path is really better in
> the long run. Then things happen to bring me back to feeling absolutely
> right about where we are. The other day, an old friend called to tell
> me that his ds age 17 was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Talk about
> perspective. That very day, my ds asked me if I had time to help him
> make chocolate dipped strawberries and pretzels. Of course there was
> time. Later he told me how much fun it had been for him. He told me
> how much he loved his life now.
>












My dh died when my son was 2, he has no actual memories of his dad... I used
to have big Fear about the "lack of daddy" in his life and I realized Life
without Dad and with a Fearful Mama was probably worse than Life with out
Dad and a Self-Assured Mama, so I kicked the fear!

I'm also a mama who got to spend the most of her daughter's short 9.5 years
of life in Joyful Freedom! I have no regrets that I gave my child the gift
of freedom before it was too late...


> I have lots of family members and friends that tell me constantly how
> his happiness now is not enough to justify the damage that his lifestyle
> will do to his future life. Could that be true?
>
>


Sure, it *could* be. We *could be* all sucked up by a tornado, too. Life is
full of amazing possibilities, not all of them sunny and bright... My goal
is to make a whole string of Nows that are joyful and free, which
(especially for Hannah) becomes a whole life of joy and freedom.

Of the *damaged* adults I know, all of them have been through the public
school system. I've yet to meet *anyone* damaged by joy and freedom. Send
your family members to do their own homework (hee hee), let them research
unschooling and find out for themselves (sandradodd.com/unschooling or
joyfullyrejoycing.com to begin) if their Truths are really True (chances are
they'll either read and figure out they've been deluded or they won't read
and stand firm in their own experiences & the "if it was good enough for
me..." mentality). School tends to make people really really afraid of life
outside of the box. We're here to tell ya Life Out Here is waaaaay cool :D
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:55 PM, thehomeopathicway <
thehomeopathicway@...> wrote:

> He is a very
> deep thinker and he spends hours and hours talking to people from all
> over the world on line. He is also fascinated with metaphysics. He has
> his own radio show where he interviews leaders of strange religions and
> cults. He takes acting classes and is in 2 plays at the moment. He is
> doing a wonderful job of teaching me how to be more tolerant and
> accepting (through his work and through his personal choices). I have a
> hard time not getting crazy when he stays up all night talking to people
> on the other side of the world and then sleeps half the day. Then I
> have to ask myself why it matters when he sleeps and when he is awake?
> Then I think, how will he ever learn responsibility and be able to work
> or go to college? Do other parents of teens go through this? What do
> you do?
>
>
>


I wanna meet this kid :D Are you guys thinking of coming to the
conference<http://lifeisgoodconference.com>?
(it's right there in your backyard!) He would meet a whole new group of
unschoolers to connect with.
Hayden, 9.5, also has a natural rhythm that is very different than mine (or
anyone else I know who is a product of "you sleep now, you wake now"
upbringing). Sometimes it's staying up all night, talking to people from all
over the world, sometimes (like this week) it's asleep by 7pm and awake at 6
am, spending all *day* talking to people from all over the place :D

One thing that really soothed me when Hayden was 4 and firmly on a night
shift, was meeting a lawyer in Rapid City who never, ever opens his office
before noon. He went to college and law school at night and runs his (very
successful) business on his own terms, on his own schedule. So it's not just
overnight warehouse jobs available to our *night owls* (though DH would say
his overnight warehouse job was the Best Job he ever had!) -- there's a
whole different way of looking at the world, if we're willing to move from
our current perspective.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thehomeopathicway

Hey Neighbor!

> hi from corvallis :) (just 1.5hrs south of you!) After moving from
South
> Dakota, I agree, Things are veeery different 'round here and we're
loving
> it!! <3

We love it too!

> My dh died when my son was 2, he has no actual memories of his
dad... I used
> to have big Fear about the "lack of daddy" in his life and I
realized Life
> without Dad and with a Fearful Mama was probably worse than Life
with out
> Dad and a Self-Assured Mama, so I kicked the fear!

I am also kicking the fear. It gets easier as I get older and trust
myself more.
>
> I'm also a mama who got to spend the most of her daughter's short
9.5 years
> of life in Joyful Freedom! I have no regrets that I gave my child
the gift
> of freedom before it was too late...

I think you are an amazing woman Diana. Thank you for being such an
inspiration!

Dianna
thehomeopathicway@...

thehomeopathicway

> It's not unschooling and I'm not advocating it... there is a Free
School in
> Portland, where you dd could feel like she's "part of a school" AND
have the
> freedom to follow her own path. I only know this school exists because
> they're coming to the Life is Good
> Conference<http://lifeisgoodconference.com>in May... It's an option
> and it's an option between unschooling and
> traditional school -- a compromise of sorts :)

I found out about the free school before I moved here and both kids
were really interested in checking it out. I don't know much about it
but it's kind of too far away from where I live to make it work. My
son has taken classes at a homeschool resource center near to where we
live and my dd could do that as well. As a matter of fact, I believe
you are speaking at a conference there in a few weeks?

thehomeopathicway

>
>
> I wanna meet this kid :D Are you guys thinking of coming to the
> conference<http://lifeisgoodconference.com>?
> (it's right there in your backyard!) He would meet a whole new group
of
> unschoolers to connect with.

Yes, we are going. I can't wait. I am hoping this will get both kids
really excited about the 'un' life. Although, Matthew (ds) is already
there.

I look forward to meeting you and Hayden at both conferences.

Ren Allen

~~
-=-I have lots of family members and friends that tell me constantly
how his happiness now is not enough to justify the damage that his
lifestyle will do to his future life. Could that be true?-=-~~

I just talked about this last week in the Mythbusters talk!:) I
haven't found it to be true at ALL.
My oldest boys (18 and 14 currently) have had some really strange
sleep patterns over the years. Jared (14) is currently up all night on
WoW, partially because his best friend (aka; older brother) is gone a
lot and he's lonely at night without anyone awake in the house. Poor guy.

Anyhoo, neither of them seem to have suffered any damage whatsoever
from their bizarre sleep patterns. Up all night can translate back to
a "normal" schedule in one day if needed. I've watched them on more
than one occasion, stay up all night and then all the next day in
order to be tired so they can be up for some event or travel or job or
something important to them.

Why would sleeping when you like affect the rest of your life? Other
than knowing how to be balanced and listening to your body! People can
adapt to situations when they need to and believe me, these kids adapt
beautifully.

Trevor (18) is off at college with his girlfriend right now (she's
going, he's visiting) and I bet his sleep patterns have changed yet
again. The ability to stay up all night comes in handy at the
conferences too....:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

>
> http://sandradodd.com/sleeping
>
> http://sandradodd.com/teens
>
> http://sandradodd.com/teen
>
>

Those are great pages!
It was kinda bittersweet looking at the pics and seeing all the happy
faces. Awesome kids.:)
If you look really close at the pic of the Albuquerque dance, with
Marty's big sombrero, Trevor is directly behind the sombrero with his
foot tall mohawk.

Anyone who has doubts about unschooling needs to come meet some of
these teens and hang out for a while. It will dispel all doubt (or
send you running for the hills if you have issues with colorful hair
or strong opinions).

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

diana jenner

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:19 PM, thehomeopathicway <
thehomeopathicway@...> wrote:

> As a matter of fact, I believe
> you are speaking at a conference there in a few weeks?
> .
>
>
>


why yes I am :D It's not an unschooling specific conference
(OHEN<http://www.ohen.org/conference>)
so this is truly a new (very brave) venture for me. My talk is entitled
"Life Uncommon, Love Uncommon" and will focus on the relationship potential
we have as homeschooling parents (and a healthy dose of Urgency to make
those relationships happen right-the-you-know-what NOW!)
Be sure to c'mon over and say hello, if you'll be there :D
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am kind of a mama bear
and I won't stand for anyone saying anything negative about my kids
(either to me or to their face). Not that they are perfect, but if I
don't think so...who will?-=-

This is over a week old; I'm sorry. I had reason to go through old
mail and remembered I had meant to respond to this.

It doesn't matter anymore who wrote it. <g>



If you know a child isn't perfect, but you try to make others treat
them as though they are, that's a problem.

If you claim to think a child is perfect and you say he's not (in
public) isn't there cognitive dissonance?

By "I won't stand for anyone saying anything negative about my kids"
would that mean hitting the speaker or leaving the room or arguing
with them or insulting them? If my husband said "I won't stand
for anyone saying anything negative about my wife," what should I
think he means!? I can't imagine him saying that.

Nobody needs to answer these questions here, at all. I'm not asking
for answers. I'm asking for considerations of these things in a
dozen or a hundred people who might come by this and have those kind
of thoughts unexamined in them.

When someone says something about one of my kids and its true, it's
good for me to know. If they express it nicely or snarkily or with
some clear jealousy or fear of my kids' privileges or if they're
trying to insult me, that's a whole different level of the
conversation. That's not about my kids. That's about what the
communicator thinks of me. But the infomation about my children
might be true, and it's always worth considering such things. I
don't have to repeat it to my child, but I can consider looking at
such aspects and seeing whether a word or gesture might help the
next time.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]