Strangers correcting your child - long (sorry)
melissa_hice
We just got back from Wendy's and, boy, am I mad! Here's the story:
Dd(8), ds(5) and I stopped at Wendy's for lunch after being at the
zoo for a zoo class all morning. Unfortunately, Wendy's was crowded
with the lunch crowd. Dd(8) asked if she and brother could go get a
table and wait while I orderd the food and I agreed. They were
sitting where I could see them if I leaned out from the long line I
was waiting in. I kept looking back every minute or so and they
seemed to be doing fine. Then, it was my turn to order, and
naturally, that is when something happened.
I got our food and headed to our table and ds was under the table
with his coat over his head crying. I asked him to come out and he
wouldn't. I asked him if he was hurt and Dd said, "No, he got in
trouble." When I asked him to come out and tell me what happened,
the woman who cleans the table (probably in her 60's) came over and
said, "He was licking the salt and pepper shakers and so I had to
throw them away!" She was all in a huff. Ds came out from under the
table (I was sitting on the floor by him) and crawled in my lap and
hid his face. He was obviously very upset. I asked him if that is
what he did and he shook his head no.
then the lady sitting across from our table said in a very mad and
irritated voice (she was probably also in her 60's I'm guessing) "do
you want me to tell you what he did?" and I replied, "No, I'll let
my son tell me." She said in a "knowing" sort of way, "Yeah, I
thought you'd probably want him to tell you" like she thought I'd
pull the truth out of him and then punish him.
Ds would not tell me what happened. I felt so upset because part of
me wanted to find out what happened so that I could make amends, if
need be, and part of me wanted to just let him be since he was
obviously so upset. I told Ds that I promised I would not be mad at
him no matter what happened and that I was not going to punish him.
He still wouldn't say anything except that he wanted to go home. So
we started packing up our food. Dd said, "Mommy, he wasn't licking
them, he had them under his nose and was smelling them." then she
demonstrated what he was doing and I knew he was just trying to be
silly while they were waiting for their food.
I asked Ds if that was true, that he was smelling the shakers, not
licking them, and he nodded yes. I asked him what the worker said to
him and he wouldn't talk. The worker lady then came to our table and
patted his back and said in a sickly sweet voice, "It's okay. I
threw them away. Don't be upset." Then she bent down and whispered
wickedly, "But if you do it again, I'll take you over my knee and
spank you!"
I looked at her and said, "No, you will not spank my child. I do not
spank him and you certainly will not spank him." She said she was
only teasing. I said, "I apologize for what he did, but really it
was my fault. I should not have left them unattended at the table
and we should not have come at such a busy time. I'm the one who was
wrong, not my child."
We left and on the way out, another older lady (Man, must be the day
for older ladies to go to Wendy's!) caught up with me as we were
headed to our car and told me that that old worker lady was really
mean to Matthew and that she said some very unkind things. She
called her "That mean old lady".
I also found out that she told Ds that he would have to pay for a new
set of shakers. I cannot believe she would tell that to a 5 year
old! I am so mad about this situation, and even more upset with
myself because I don't think I stood up enough for my child. I
should have probably gone to the manager or something.
How should I have handled this situation? What could I have done
differently? I would like to know if anyone else has experienced
similar situations and how you handled them so that in the future,
I'll be better prepared. Boy, wish I could just wave a magic wand
and have all the experience and knowledge some of you have on this
site! Being new to unschooling sucks in a way because I have the
drive and desire, but not the experience or knowledge.
Melissa
Dd(8), ds(5) and I stopped at Wendy's for lunch after being at the
zoo for a zoo class all morning. Unfortunately, Wendy's was crowded
with the lunch crowd. Dd(8) asked if she and brother could go get a
table and wait while I orderd the food and I agreed. They were
sitting where I could see them if I leaned out from the long line I
was waiting in. I kept looking back every minute or so and they
seemed to be doing fine. Then, it was my turn to order, and
naturally, that is when something happened.
I got our food and headed to our table and ds was under the table
with his coat over his head crying. I asked him to come out and he
wouldn't. I asked him if he was hurt and Dd said, "No, he got in
trouble." When I asked him to come out and tell me what happened,
the woman who cleans the table (probably in her 60's) came over and
said, "He was licking the salt and pepper shakers and so I had to
throw them away!" She was all in a huff. Ds came out from under the
table (I was sitting on the floor by him) and crawled in my lap and
hid his face. He was obviously very upset. I asked him if that is
what he did and he shook his head no.
then the lady sitting across from our table said in a very mad and
irritated voice (she was probably also in her 60's I'm guessing) "do
you want me to tell you what he did?" and I replied, "No, I'll let
my son tell me." She said in a "knowing" sort of way, "Yeah, I
thought you'd probably want him to tell you" like she thought I'd
pull the truth out of him and then punish him.
Ds would not tell me what happened. I felt so upset because part of
me wanted to find out what happened so that I could make amends, if
need be, and part of me wanted to just let him be since he was
obviously so upset. I told Ds that I promised I would not be mad at
him no matter what happened and that I was not going to punish him.
He still wouldn't say anything except that he wanted to go home. So
we started packing up our food. Dd said, "Mommy, he wasn't licking
them, he had them under his nose and was smelling them." then she
demonstrated what he was doing and I knew he was just trying to be
silly while they were waiting for their food.
I asked Ds if that was true, that he was smelling the shakers, not
licking them, and he nodded yes. I asked him what the worker said to
him and he wouldn't talk. The worker lady then came to our table and
patted his back and said in a sickly sweet voice, "It's okay. I
threw them away. Don't be upset." Then she bent down and whispered
wickedly, "But if you do it again, I'll take you over my knee and
spank you!"
I looked at her and said, "No, you will not spank my child. I do not
spank him and you certainly will not spank him." She said she was
only teasing. I said, "I apologize for what he did, but really it
was my fault. I should not have left them unattended at the table
and we should not have come at such a busy time. I'm the one who was
wrong, not my child."
We left and on the way out, another older lady (Man, must be the day
for older ladies to go to Wendy's!) caught up with me as we were
headed to our car and told me that that old worker lady was really
mean to Matthew and that she said some very unkind things. She
called her "That mean old lady".
I also found out that she told Ds that he would have to pay for a new
set of shakers. I cannot believe she would tell that to a 5 year
old! I am so mad about this situation, and even more upset with
myself because I don't think I stood up enough for my child. I
should have probably gone to the manager or something.
How should I have handled this situation? What could I have done
differently? I would like to know if anyone else has experienced
similar situations and how you handled them so that in the future,
I'll be better prepared. Boy, wish I could just wave a magic wand
and have all the experience and knowledge some of you have on this
site! Being new to unschooling sucks in a way because I have the
drive and desire, but not the experience or knowledge.
Melissa
Elizabeth Fritcher
melissa_hice wrote:
You are mad and I'm sitting here crying for that little boy. I can't say
what I would have done. I guess it depends on my mood at that time. I
think you handled it fine w/ the worker (I have a hard time not getting
upset and raising my voice). I think that extending the experience to
talk to the manager right then would have just made it worse for your
DS. Maybe go back tomorrow and lodge a formal complaint. No one should
feel they have the right to speak that way to your child. A worker at
the post office told my son to stop playing w/ those rope things once. I
flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it upon himself to tell my son to
stop doing something I didn't feel was destructive or dangerous. I wish
I'd said something to the man, but instead I just felt ashamed and got
upset w/ my own kids. I handled it poorly. I think on the scale of how
things are handled, you did very well. That old lady comes from a
different generation. One I'm glad I'm not a part of. I strive to be
more like you and less like that old bat everyday.
HUGS!!
Melissa
>***************
> We just got back from Wendy's and, boy, am I mad! Here's the story:
>
You are mad and I'm sitting here crying for that little boy. I can't say
what I would have done. I guess it depends on my mood at that time. I
think you handled it fine w/ the worker (I have a hard time not getting
upset and raising my voice). I think that extending the experience to
talk to the manager right then would have just made it worse for your
DS. Maybe go back tomorrow and lodge a formal complaint. No one should
feel they have the right to speak that way to your child. A worker at
the post office told my son to stop playing w/ those rope things once. I
flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it upon himself to tell my son to
stop doing something I didn't feel was destructive or dangerous. I wish
I'd said something to the man, but instead I just felt ashamed and got
upset w/ my own kids. I handled it poorly. I think on the scale of how
things are handled, you did very well. That old lady comes from a
different generation. One I'm glad I'm not a part of. I strive to be
more like you and less like that old bat everyday.
HUGS!!
Melissa
Karen Smith
I am so sorry this happened to your baby. I would never have thought someone would have been so mean. How awful. I am not sure what you should have done. Sounds like you handled it the best you could. What a horrible experience!
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Saying the salt had to be thrown away, if they're disposables, isn't
too unreasonable. I think Wendy's uses solid shakers for salt.
Would you like to think that someone's child had even touched the
salt shaker to his nose even a little bit? If he wanted to smell it,
he could have shaken some out into his hand (a LITTLE bit) and
smelled that.
Kirby worked at a pizza place where high school kids showing off for
each other did horrible things to the salt and pepper and Parmesan
cheese shakers. Those were washable and not disposable. Still. He
was surprised (having never gone to school) at how really horrible
teenagers could act in such circumstances. I tell that to suggest
that your child probably wasn't the first and only kid to do
something with or to a salt shaker there.
Wendy's has a responsibility to their customers to keep the place
sanitary. Seriously.
-=-No one should feel they have the right to speak that way to your
child. A worker at the post office told my son to stop playing w/
those rope things once. I flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it
upon himself to tell my son to stop doing something I didn't feel was
destructive or dangerous. -=-
Marty pulled one of those things over on himself at a theater once
and it was HEAVY.
-=-No one should feel they have the right to speak that way to your
child.-=-
This isn't a good attitude to have, if you expect your children to
live in the world. You might not always be there with them. Lisa
Heyman died just today.
Give your children ways to understand what is expected of them in the
world. No one has the right to speak that way to your child in your
home, but the idea of helping our children grow up well is so that
they know how to act when they are NOT at home.
-=-I flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it upon himself to tell
my son to stop doing something I didn't feel was destructive or
dangerous.-=-
He was protecting the property in his place of work and the safety of
people in the post office. I'm sure it slowed the line down for him
to have done so.
Letting a child play on something absolutely strong that doesn't fall
over is quite different from playing with something unstable. But in
any case, stable or unstable, what belongs to other people belongs to
them.
Unschooling doesn't give children special privileges at Wendy's or
the post office.
Sandra
too unreasonable. I think Wendy's uses solid shakers for salt.
Would you like to think that someone's child had even touched the
salt shaker to his nose even a little bit? If he wanted to smell it,
he could have shaken some out into his hand (a LITTLE bit) and
smelled that.
Kirby worked at a pizza place where high school kids showing off for
each other did horrible things to the salt and pepper and Parmesan
cheese shakers. Those were washable and not disposable. Still. He
was surprised (having never gone to school) at how really horrible
teenagers could act in such circumstances. I tell that to suggest
that your child probably wasn't the first and only kid to do
something with or to a salt shaker there.
Wendy's has a responsibility to their customers to keep the place
sanitary. Seriously.
-=-No one should feel they have the right to speak that way to your
child. A worker at the post office told my son to stop playing w/
those rope things once. I flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it
upon himself to tell my son to stop doing something I didn't feel was
destructive or dangerous. -=-
Marty pulled one of those things over on himself at a theater once
and it was HEAVY.
-=-No one should feel they have the right to speak that way to your
child.-=-
This isn't a good attitude to have, if you expect your children to
live in the world. You might not always be there with them. Lisa
Heyman died just today.
Give your children ways to understand what is expected of them in the
world. No one has the right to speak that way to your child in your
home, but the idea of helping our children grow up well is so that
they know how to act when they are NOT at home.
-=-I flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it upon himself to tell
my son to stop doing something I didn't feel was destructive or
dangerous.-=-
He was protecting the property in his place of work and the safety of
people in the post office. I'm sure it slowed the line down for him
to have done so.
Letting a child play on something absolutely strong that doesn't fall
over is quite different from playing with something unstable. But in
any case, stable or unstable, what belongs to other people belongs to
them.
Unschooling doesn't give children special privileges at Wendy's or
the post office.
Sandra
melissa_hice
--- In [email protected], Elizabeth Fritcher <ekf@...>
wrote:
was mad at the old hags in Wendy's and at myself for not doing more
than what I did. His little tear stained face and obvious fear broke
my heart. It makes me mad that other people think they can treat my
child like a second class citizen, worse than they would a dog.
Melissa
wrote:
>Oh, I hope no one thinks that I was mad at my precious little boy! I
> melissa_hice wrote:
> >
> > We just got back from Wendy's and, boy, am I mad! Here's the story:
> >
>
>
> ***************
>
> You are mad and I'm sitting here crying for that little boy.
was mad at the old hags in Wendy's and at myself for not doing more
than what I did. His little tear stained face and obvious fear broke
my heart. It makes me mad that other people think they can treat my
child like a second class citizen, worse than they would a dog.
Melissa
Sandra Dodd
-=-I strive to be
more like you and less like that old bat everyday.-=-
If we don't want people calling our children brats for expressing
themselves honestly, perhaps there better example to set than
calling women "bats" for expressing themselves honestly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
more like you and less like that old bat everyday.-=-
If we don't want people calling our children brats for expressing
themselves honestly, perhaps there better example to set than
calling women "bats" for expressing themselves honestly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was mad at the old hags in Wendy's-=-
OH STOP!
I had already objected to "bats" before I saw this.
-=-It makes me mad that other people think they can treat my child
like a second class citizen, worse than they would a dog.-=-
Had an adult been holding the salt shaker up to his moustache or
appearing to lick it she probably would have thrown it away too.
Do you really think she treated your child worse than a dog? I don't
think a dog would've even been allowed into Wendy's.
I'm 54 and I don't think children should run wild and treat other
people's property disrespectfully. I don't hesitate to tell someone
else's child to act different at my own home. Does that make me a
bat or a hag?
-=-His little tear stained face and obvious fear broke my heart. -=-
The employees of Wendy's didn't tell you to leave the kids at the
table while you were in line.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
OH STOP!
I had already objected to "bats" before I saw this.
-=-It makes me mad that other people think they can treat my child
like a second class citizen, worse than they would a dog.-=-
Had an adult been holding the salt shaker up to his moustache or
appearing to lick it she probably would have thrown it away too.
Do you really think she treated your child worse than a dog? I don't
think a dog would've even been allowed into Wendy's.
I'm 54 and I don't think children should run wild and treat other
people's property disrespectfully. I don't hesitate to tell someone
else's child to act different at my own home. Does that make me a
bat or a hag?
-=-His little tear stained face and obvious fear broke my heart. -=-
The employees of Wendy's didn't tell you to leave the kids at the
table while you were in line.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melissa_hice
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
waitress about it and apologized. I offered to pay for the salt
shaker. I talked to DS about NOT licking the salt shakers, but never
thought about talking to him about not "smelling" the salt shakers!
but in all fairness, he didn't know it was not appropriate. And at
that age, children tend to put their noses directly on things when
they smell, or at least my ds does. Had I been sitting with him when
that happened, I could have stopped him and talked with him about why
that was not appropriate. I could have put some in my hand for him
to smell. I was foolish for not being there with them at the table.
BTW, we do not have salt and pepper shakers sitting on our table at
home. Good grief, we can't even GET to our table most of the time
due to all the stuff on it that we are working on! So I'm sure it was
a noveltly to him.
to me instead of scaring him. Especially when she told him she would
spank him next time. That is not her place to say something like
that and I don't want my son to feel that some stranger has that
right.
doesn't think about the consequences of what he does. He is
impulsive. Smelling the salt and pepper must have seemed like
something interesting to do at that moment, not something
destructive. If he were doing it to be malicious, that would be
another story.
I am the one to blame in this situation. It didn't occur to me that
Ds would want to smell the salt and pepper while I was ordering our
food.
Sandra, I appreciate your directness. It certainly gives me much to
think about. I think sometimes I tend to forget that young children
just don't know what is expected of them out in the world, and my job
is to help them, as you said, be able to function in it. Thanks for
your input. Looking forward to what else you might say!
Melissa
>isn't
> Saying the salt had to be thrown away, if they're disposables,
> too unreasonable. I think Wendy's uses solid shakers for salt.Yes, they do use the solid ones.
>No way! In fact, Ds once DID lick a salt shaker and I spoke to the
> Would you like to think that someone's child had even touched the
> salt shaker to his nose even a little bit?
waitress about it and apologized. I offered to pay for the salt
shaker. I talked to DS about NOT licking the salt shakers, but never
thought about talking to him about not "smelling" the salt shakers!
>And I understand that fully. I don't approve of what my child did,
> Wendy's has a responsibility to their customers to keep the place
> sanitary. Seriously.
but in all fairness, he didn't know it was not appropriate. And at
that age, children tend to put their noses directly on things when
they smell, or at least my ds does. Had I been sitting with him when
that happened, I could have stopped him and talked with him about why
that was not appropriate. I could have put some in my hand for him
to smell. I was foolish for not being there with them at the table.
BTW, we do not have salt and pepper shakers sitting on our table at
home. Good grief, we can't even GET to our table most of the time
due to all the stuff on it that we are working on! So I'm sure it was
a noveltly to him.
>your
> -=-No one should feel they have the right to speak that way to
> child.-=-Lisa
>
> This isn't a good attitude to have, if you expect your children to
> live in the world. You might not always be there with them.
> Heyman died just today.the
>
> Give your children ways to understand what is expected of them in
> world. No one has the right to speak that way to your child inyour
> home, but the idea of helping our children grow up well is so thatThat is true, but he's only 5. I think that woman should have come
> they know how to act when they are NOT at home.
to me instead of scaring him. Especially when she told him she would
spank him next time. That is not her place to say something like
that and I don't want my son to feel that some stranger has that
right.
>. . . what belongs to other people belongs to
> them.I agree and I try to instill that in my children.
>
> Unschooling doesn't give children special privileges at Wendy's orI also agree with that statement, but I think, being only 5, Ds just
> the post office.
doesn't think about the consequences of what he does. He is
impulsive. Smelling the salt and pepper must have seemed like
something interesting to do at that moment, not something
destructive. If he were doing it to be malicious, that would be
another story.
I am the one to blame in this situation. It didn't occur to me that
Ds would want to smell the salt and pepper while I was ordering our
food.
Sandra, I appreciate your directness. It certainly gives me much to
think about. I think sometimes I tend to forget that young children
just don't know what is expected of them out in the world, and my job
is to help them, as you said, be able to function in it. Thanks for
your input. Looking forward to what else you might say!
Melissa
melissa_hice
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
better than my crude comment.
would expect them to be upset over an adult doing something like that.
Melissa
>You are right! I'm getting caught up in this! This person deserves
> -=-I was mad at the old hags in Wendy's-=-
>
>
> OH STOP!
>
> I had already objected to "bats" before I saw this.
better than my crude comment.
>don't
> -=-It makes me mad that other people think they can treat my child
> like a second class citizen, worse than they would a dog.-=-
>
> Had an adult been holding the salt shaker up to his moustache or
> appearing to lick it she probably would have thrown it away too.
>
> Do you really think she treated your child worse than a dog? I
> think a dog would've even been allowed into Wendy's.Right again! Guess my anger is getting the best of me. I absoultely
would expect them to be upset over an adult doing something like that.
>someone
>
>
> I'm 54 and I don't think children should run wild and treat other
> people's property disrespectfully. I don't hesitate to tell
> else's child to act different at my own home. Does that make mea
> bat or a hag?Of course not.
>=-
> -=-His little tear stained face and obvious fear broke my heart. -
>Right. That was my mistake.
> The employees of Wendy's didn't tell you to leave the kids at the
> table while you were in line.
Melissa
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Nancy Wooton
On Feb 26, 2008, at 1:24 PM, melissa_hice wrote:
My 17 y.o. son, when asked what he wants to be when he grows up, says
"the old man who shakes his fist and yells at kids who cross his front
lawn."
What's the male version of a hag?
Nancy
>>Damn. I was gonna start a club.
>> I'm 54 and I don't think children should run wild and treat other
>> people's property disrespectfully. I don't hesitate to tell
> someone
>> else's child to act different at my own home. Does that make me
> a
>> bat or a hag?
>
> Of course not.
>
My 17 y.o. son, when asked what he wants to be when he grows up, says
"the old man who shakes his fist and yells at kids who cross his front
lawn."
What's the male version of a hag?
Nancy
Sandra Dodd
-=-What's the male version of a hag?-=-
Curmudgeon?
Crazy old coot?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Curmudgeon?
Crazy old coot?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wendy S.
I've handle situations like that several ways--either getting
embarrassed, speaking up for my child, or raising my voice to the
individual who belittled Shelby. :-}
Usually, if Shelby (9) is doing something I think or know others
would object to, I'll ask her to stop and tell her why. I tell her
that I don't agree with them or think she shouldn't be doing those
things, but that I don't want a stranger to reprimand her. She
understands that.
I have stood up to people for saying things to her, and unfortunately
that will upset Shelby even more sometimes. Sometimes I tell the
workers that if she does indeed damage something I will be happy to
pay for it. My husband has literally gotten in people's faces telling
them to *never* speak to his family that way again.
I think you handled it well. And I feel immensely for you.
Wendy S. in GA
Mom to Shelby, Age 9
http://ourjourneyfantastic.blogspot.com/
Come to the Trust Birth Conference!
March 7-9, 2008 in Redondo Beach, California
www.trustbirthconference.com
****************
BIRTH IS SAFE, INTERVENTION IS RISKY
http://www.trustbirth.com/
melissa_hice wrote:
embarrassed, speaking up for my child, or raising my voice to the
individual who belittled Shelby. :-}
Usually, if Shelby (9) is doing something I think or know others
would object to, I'll ask her to stop and tell her why. I tell her
that I don't agree with them or think she shouldn't be doing those
things, but that I don't want a stranger to reprimand her. She
understands that.
I have stood up to people for saying things to her, and unfortunately
that will upset Shelby even more sometimes. Sometimes I tell the
workers that if she does indeed damage something I will be happy to
pay for it. My husband has literally gotten in people's faces telling
them to *never* speak to his family that way again.
I think you handled it well. And I feel immensely for you.
Wendy S. in GA
Mom to Shelby, Age 9
http://ourjourneyfantastic.blogspot.com/
Come to the Trust Birth Conference!
March 7-9, 2008 in Redondo Beach, California
www.trustbirthconference.com
****************
BIRTH IS SAFE, INTERVENTION IS RISKY
http://www.trustbirth.com/
melissa_hice wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We just got back from Wendy's and, boy, am I mad! Here's the story:
harmony
Once we were at petco and the humane society was there adopting out cats. My daughter asked to hold one and she sat and held a little kitten for about 10 minutes, then it jumped off her lap when she tried to give it back. The lady told he that if the cat got away she'd have to kill her because she'd be so upset. My daughter was 7 and she was terrified of the lady. We let Petco management know about "the crazy old cat lady" They didn't do anything and the lady is still there on weekends and we have never held a cat again, but we loudly warn other customers where she can hear us.
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Elizabeth Fritcher <ekf@...>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Strangers correcting your child - long (sorry)
> Sent: Feb 26 '08 2:17pm
>
> melissa_hice wrote:
> >
> > We just got back from Wendy's and, boy, am I mad! Here's the story:
> >
>
> ***************
>
> You are mad and I'm sitting here crying for that little boy. I can't say
> what I would have done. I guess it depends on my mood at that time. I
> think you handled it fine w/ the worker (I have a hard time not getting
> upset and raising my voice). I think that extending the experience to
> talk to the manager right then would have just made it worse for your
> DS. Maybe go back tomorrow and lodge a formal complaint. No one should
> feel they have the right to speak that way to your child. A worker at
> the post office told my son to stop playing w/ those rope things once. I
> flushed and felt upset that he'd taken it upon himself to tell my son to
> stop doing something I didn't feel was destructive or dangerous. I wish
> I'd said something to the man, but instead I just felt ashamed and got
> upset w/ my own kids. I handled it poorly. I think on the scale of how
> things are handled, you did very well. That old lady comes from a
> different generation. One I'm glad I'm not a part of. I strive to be
> more like you and less like that old bat everyday.
>
> HUGS!!
>
> Melissa
>
Melody
> > Saying the salt had to be thrown away, if they're disposables,I don't see why they couldn't just wash the salt shakers, then. I
> isn't
> > too unreasonable. I think Wendy's uses solid shakers for salt.
>
> Yes, they do use the solid ones.
understand the need for sanitation, but that is no excuse for a
stranger to be so nasty to a small child. if I had been working
there I would have asked the child politely to stop, and if it
continued to be a problem I would talk to the parent. and after the
family left I would make sure to take the saltshaker and clean it.
by being so confrontational directly to a child, particularly one so
young (not a teenager) I think she was overstepping the appropriate
boundary.
I do not allow strangers to parent my children when we are out in
public. I realize some people, particularly from an older
generation, think it's ok to do so, but I find it extremely
inappropriate.
I had an incident once where a lady at a thrift store was being mean
to my daughter about touching the fragile stuff. I was using it as
an opportunity to teach her to touch nicely, but the lady kept
grabbing things away from her and telling her NO after I had already
given my daughter permission to touch them. I told her to leave my
daughter alone and that if she broke anything I would gladly pay for
it. she ignored me and continued harassing my daughter. I made a
complaint to the manager. apparently there had been several problems
with this lady and they asked her to stop volunteering at the thrift
store after that. I'm glad I spoke up. I have had to tell people on
occasion, "if you have a problem with what my child is doing, talk
to ME about it." obviously that boundary will have to change
somewhat as my kids get older (currently my oldest is 3), but
particularly with young kids, I just don't think it's appropriate
for random strangers to do that sort of thing.
jenbgosh
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...>
wrote:
women act haggish. (eye roll.)
Another poster said, "That old lady comes from a different generation.
One I'm glad I'm not a part of. I strive to be more like you and less
like that old bat everyday."
It's a bad idea to model calling other people mean names. Also it is
unfair to smear all members of "another generation" as cranky. (I
believe another older woman caught up with our original poster and
tried to console her by saying that the Wendy's worker was a mean old
lady. So all members of that "other generation" are not created equal.)
If we're lucky, all the women on this list will achieve the status of
old lady some day.
Jennie
wrote:
>>Well, there isn't one. Isn't that interesting? As we all know, only
> What's the male version of a hag?
>
women act haggish. (eye roll.)
Another poster said, "That old lady comes from a different generation.
One I'm glad I'm not a part of. I strive to be more like you and less
like that old bat everyday."
It's a bad idea to model calling other people mean names. Also it is
unfair to smear all members of "another generation" as cranky. (I
believe another older woman caught up with our original poster and
tried to console her by saying that the Wendy's worker was a mean old
lady. So all members of that "other generation" are not created equal.)
If we're lucky, all the women on this list will achieve the status of
old lady some day.
Jennie
Sandra Dodd
-=-the lady kept
grabbing things away from her and telling her NO after I had already
given my daughter permission to touch them-=-
The problem with that, though, is that you can't really give your
daughter permission to touch things you don't own. If you owned a
store (or if you can imagine owning a store) you would realize that
you wouldn't want everyone who comes in the door touching everything
you have, no matter how old they are.
I've recommended thrift stores and antique shops as museums, and
we've had some GREAT times talking about items in stores, but it
doesn't make them hands-on children's museums.
The grabbing is bad and the "NO" is bad, but I question the
assumption that being able to buy broken things gives the parent
privileges that other customers don't have.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grabbing things away from her and telling her NO after I had already
given my daughter permission to touch them-=-
The problem with that, though, is that you can't really give your
daughter permission to touch things you don't own. If you owned a
store (or if you can imagine owning a store) you would realize that
you wouldn't want everyone who comes in the door touching everything
you have, no matter how old they are.
I've recommended thrift stores and antique shops as museums, and
we've had some GREAT times talking about items in stores, but it
doesn't make them hands-on children's museums.
The grabbing is bad and the "NO" is bad, but I question the
assumption that being able to buy broken things gives the parent
privileges that other customers don't have.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> Yes, they do use the solid ones.
I don't see why they couldn't just wash the salt shakers, then.-=-
Because they don't come apart. It's a solid plastic shaker with a
non-refillable base of some kind.
They're disposables, but intended to last a few days on a table
before they're trashed, I think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't see why they couldn't just wash the salt shakers, then.-=-
Because they don't come apart. It's a solid plastic shaker with a
non-refillable base of some kind.
They're disposables, but intended to last a few days on a table
before they're trashed, I think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alohabun
--- In [email protected], "melissa_hice" <mhice@...>
wrote:
experience! I understand she has a job to do and wants to keep
things sanitary, but still I wish she spoke with more respect to
your son.
Perhaps this is one of those times to discuss with the kids how some
people choose to communicate...either with respect or without. And
that another person might have been able to communicate what she was
trying to say in a kind, helpful way. But for whatever reason, this
person spoke the way she did. Perhaps she was having a bad day,
never learned to speak with respect to all ages, had past
experiences of her own, learned a more harsh way of speaking, etc..
And let the kids know that there are all kinds of people in the
world and so others may not speak in the manner in which we prefer
or think is right. However, one thing we can do is to try not to do
that to others- as we know how it can feel. Laurie
wrote:
>I feel upset for you and your kids having that unpleasant
experience! I understand she has a job to do and wants to keep
things sanitary, but still I wish she spoke with more respect to
your son.
Perhaps this is one of those times to discuss with the kids how some
people choose to communicate...either with respect or without. And
that another person might have been able to communicate what she was
trying to say in a kind, helpful way. But for whatever reason, this
person spoke the way she did. Perhaps she was having a bad day,
never learned to speak with respect to all ages, had past
experiences of her own, learned a more harsh way of speaking, etc..
And let the kids know that there are all kinds of people in the
world and so others may not speak in the manner in which we prefer
or think is right. However, one thing we can do is to try not to do
that to others- as we know how it can feel. Laurie
Tricia
I have read all the responces here and while I usually don't post I
felt I had to on this one.I would have went the f#*k off on someone
telling my kid they were going to spank them,especially someone
working in a restraunt we were visiting! A total freaking
stranger.Come on people smelling,licking or snotting on a salt shaker
does not give a worker in an establishment the right to tell your kid
she is going to spank him if he does it again! And a 5 yr old at
that,hell no!--- In [email protected], "melissa_hice"
<mhice@...> wrote:
felt I had to on this one.I would have went the f#*k off on someone
telling my kid they were going to spank them,especially someone
working in a restraunt we were visiting! A total freaking
stranger.Come on people smelling,licking or snotting on a salt shaker
does not give a worker in an establishment the right to tell your kid
she is going to spank him if he does it again! And a 5 yr old at
that,hell no!--- In [email protected], "melissa_hice"
<mhice@...> wrote:
>crowded
> We just got back from Wendy's and, boy, am I mad! Here's the story:
>
> Dd(8), ds(5) and I stopped at Wendy's for lunch after being at the
> zoo for a zoo class all morning. Unfortunately, Wendy's was
> with the lunch crowd. Dd(8) asked if she and brother could go geta
> table and wait while I orderd the food and I agreed. They werethe
> sitting where I could see them if I leaned out from the long line I
> was waiting in. I kept looking back every minute or so and they
> seemed to be doing fine. Then, it was my turn to order, and
> naturally, that is when something happened.
>
> I got our food and headed to our table and ds was under the table
> with his coat over his head crying. I asked him to come out and he
> wouldn't. I asked him if he was hurt and Dd said, "No, he got in
> trouble." When I asked him to come out and tell me what happened,
> the woman who cleans the table (probably in her 60's) came over and
> said, "He was licking the salt and pepper shakers and so I had to
> throw them away!" She was all in a huff. Ds came out from under
> table (I was sitting on the floor by him) and crawled in my lap andguessing) "do
> hid his face. He was obviously very upset. I asked him if that is
> what he did and he shook his head no.
>
> then the lady sitting across from our table said in a very mad and
> irritated voice (she was probably also in her 60's I'm
> you want me to tell you what he did?" and I replied, "No, I'll letof
> my son tell me." She said in a "knowing" sort of way, "Yeah, I
> thought you'd probably want him to tell you" like she thought I'd
> pull the truth out of him and then punish him.
>
> Ds would not tell me what happened. I felt so upset because part
> me wanted to find out what happened so that I could make amends, ifat
> need be, and part of me wanted to just let him be since he was
> obviously so upset. I told Ds that I promised I would not be mad
> him no matter what happened and that I was not going to punishhim.
> He still wouldn't say anything except that he wanted to go home.So
> we started packing up our food. Dd said, "Mommy, he wasn't lickingto
> them, he had them under his nose and was smelling them." then she
> demonstrated what he was doing and I knew he was just trying to be
> silly while they were waiting for their food.
>
> I asked Ds if that was true, that he was smelling the shakers, not
> licking them, and he nodded yes. I asked him what the worker said
> him and he wouldn't talk. The worker lady then came to our tableand
> patted his back and said in a sickly sweet voice, "It's okay. Iwhispered
> threw them away. Don't be upset." Then she bent down and
> wickedly, "But if you do it again, I'll take you over my knee andnot
> spank you!"
>
> I looked at her and said, "No, you will not spank my child. I do
> spank him and you certainly will not spank him." She said she waswas
> only teasing. I said, "I apologize for what he did, but really it
> was my fault. I should not have left them unattended at the table
> and we should not have come at such a busy time. I'm the one who
> wrong, not my child."day
>
> We left and on the way out, another older lady (Man, must be the
> for older ladies to go to Wendy's!) caught up with me as we werenew
> headed to our car and told me that that old worker lady was really
> mean to Matthew and that she said some very unkind things. She
> called her "That mean old lady".
>
> I also found out that she told Ds that he would have to pay for a
> set of shakers. I cannot believe she would tell that to a 5 year
> old! I am so mad about this situation, and even more upset with
> myself because I don't think I stood up enough for my child. I
> should have probably gone to the manager or something.
>
> How should I have handled this situation? What could I have done
> differently? I would like to know if anyone else has experienced
> similar situations and how you handled them so that in the future,
> I'll be better prepared. Boy, wish I could just wave a magic wand
> and have all the experience and knowledge some of you have on this
> site! Being new to unschooling sucks in a way because I have the
> drive and desire, but not the experience or knowledge.
>
> Melissa
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I would have went the f#*k off on someone
telling my kid they were going to spank them-=-
Two wrongs don't make a right.
What your kids might likely learn from such hypothetical behavior is
that it's just fine to insult and threaten people in public.
Either it's fine or it's not.
-=-Come on people smelling,licking or snotting on a salt shaker does
not give a worker in an establishment the right to tell your kid she
is going to spank him if he does it again! And a 5 yr old at
that,hell no!-=-
Instead of there being two options in such a case, there are probably
49,000, give or take 25,000.
If a child is curious about salt shakers, give him one at home and
let him smell, lick, snot, or scratch his ass with it. Let him get
it out of his system at home. Don't leave children to learn in
public what would be easily learned at home.
No human at any age has the moral right to create unsanitary
conditions in a restaurant.
The mother has already said she shouldn't have left the kids alone at
the table, that she could have come back when it wasn't crowded, that
lots of things could've been different.
What a person has a right to do verbally is a different thing from
what a person has a right to do physically, and recommending that
parents throw down in public doesn't seem to be good for the parents
or the children either.
When I'm closer to a child than his parents are, in LOTS of
situations, it sometimes happens that for reasons of safety or
propriety I say something to that child. If a parent wants to make
sure I never "have the right" to choose my own words when speaking to
another human, they will need to stay between me and their children.
Have I ever told a stranger child that I was going to spank them?
Not even nearly. I have gone up to stranger MOTHERS and told them to
stop hitting or threatening their children. Did I "have the right"
to do that?" If I were taken to court for it, not all judges would
agree.
When I told the neighbor kids to get off my back wall, after they
threw my jack-o-lantern down, and when they were just about to climb
over on an electric gate, I had the right to do that. Had they
gotten hurt, their parents could have sued me. Had they hurt my gate
it would've been a waste of time for me to even tell their parents it
happened. I told them to get down. I pointed out that they had a
wall just like mine and they should climb on that one.
When I pulled over and told a little boy (10ish) to stop bulling the
other boy he was walking with, I didn't wonder for a second what his
mother would think about me saying that. He was pushing the other
kid into the road, and there wasn't much traffic, but what if I had
been looking the other way and hit him?
One of the dangers of sending a child out into the world unprepared
to know what's expected of him, what's legal, what's courteous,
what's safe, or the danger of sending a child out into the world with
the idea that it's fine for him to go "the f#*k off on someone" is
that he is open to the criticism and disapproval of others, and when
he's old enough, he's subject to arrest, or worse.
Unschooling doesn't mean telling kids the rules of the world don't
apply to them. You can give them scads of crazy new freedom at home,
but you can't tell people in public to change their lives and
expectations because here comes an unschooled child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
telling my kid they were going to spank them-=-
Two wrongs don't make a right.
What your kids might likely learn from such hypothetical behavior is
that it's just fine to insult and threaten people in public.
Either it's fine or it's not.
-=-Come on people smelling,licking or snotting on a salt shaker does
not give a worker in an establishment the right to tell your kid she
is going to spank him if he does it again! And a 5 yr old at
that,hell no!-=-
Instead of there being two options in such a case, there are probably
49,000, give or take 25,000.
If a child is curious about salt shakers, give him one at home and
let him smell, lick, snot, or scratch his ass with it. Let him get
it out of his system at home. Don't leave children to learn in
public what would be easily learned at home.
No human at any age has the moral right to create unsanitary
conditions in a restaurant.
The mother has already said she shouldn't have left the kids alone at
the table, that she could have come back when it wasn't crowded, that
lots of things could've been different.
What a person has a right to do verbally is a different thing from
what a person has a right to do physically, and recommending that
parents throw down in public doesn't seem to be good for the parents
or the children either.
When I'm closer to a child than his parents are, in LOTS of
situations, it sometimes happens that for reasons of safety or
propriety I say something to that child. If a parent wants to make
sure I never "have the right" to choose my own words when speaking to
another human, they will need to stay between me and their children.
Have I ever told a stranger child that I was going to spank them?
Not even nearly. I have gone up to stranger MOTHERS and told them to
stop hitting or threatening their children. Did I "have the right"
to do that?" If I were taken to court for it, not all judges would
agree.
When I told the neighbor kids to get off my back wall, after they
threw my jack-o-lantern down, and when they were just about to climb
over on an electric gate, I had the right to do that. Had they
gotten hurt, their parents could have sued me. Had they hurt my gate
it would've been a waste of time for me to even tell their parents it
happened. I told them to get down. I pointed out that they had a
wall just like mine and they should climb on that one.
When I pulled over and told a little boy (10ish) to stop bulling the
other boy he was walking with, I didn't wonder for a second what his
mother would think about me saying that. He was pushing the other
kid into the road, and there wasn't much traffic, but what if I had
been looking the other way and hit him?
One of the dangers of sending a child out into the world unprepared
to know what's expected of him, what's legal, what's courteous,
what's safe, or the danger of sending a child out into the world with
the idea that it's fine for him to go "the f#*k off on someone" is
that he is open to the criticism and disapproval of others, and when
he's old enough, he's subject to arrest, or worse.
Unschooling doesn't mean telling kids the rules of the world don't
apply to them. You can give them scads of crazy new freedom at home,
but you can't tell people in public to change their lives and
expectations because here comes an unschooled child.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fulfillmentcoach
Hi, I felt sad to hear that someone was disrespectful and unkind, and
disappointed as well that there was ageist talk going on and being modeled
about older women. As a 62 year old, I deserve to be talked to and about in
a nice way just as a child does. Fortunately I have developed skills over
the years to deal with stress and in the best of all worlds parents have
these skills to pass on to their kids. This would have been and still is a
good opportunity for this mom to model and communicate things to her son
that will fortify him and that will be more useful and better for everyone
than dealing with feelings by expressing ill will and prejudice towards a
particular segment of the population. I have spent my whole life advocating
for children. My husband and I have grown kids that were never in school and
who were unschooled. I founded and was director of one of only two
non-coercive un-schools in the country that was publicly funded. At this
un-school, young people ages 5 to 19 could spend their time (within the
constraints of safety) any way they chose. They were not separated by age
and they pretty much ran the show. Parents, friends and siblings were always
welcome and it was not a prison. They could come and go at any time with
their parents consent and they could attend the number of hours that they
wanted. There was a process in place for kids to fire the staff if they
chose to. The kids also decided how money was spent and through a democratic
process where students (for lack of a better word) each had one vote
regardless of age, made decisions. My goal was to create a village for
families based on unschooling principles and it went on for 6 years. This
school closed a year ago when the state changed the way alternatives were
funded. Since then I have been working as a life coach. One of my
specialties is working with parents. I am writing this not to toot my own
horn about myself, but rather to point out that there are many people
(regardless of age) who are or may become allies and who can be a source of
support. There are also people of all ages who act badly. In my opinion, a
culture that steals away the sovereignty of children and that disrespects
and disempowers elders is in great trouble.
I have never posted here before, but felt I needed to speak up about this. I
appreciate that you are all here and that you are trying to do something
that is extraordinary in our culture. Thanks you for listening.
disappointed as well that there was ageist talk going on and being modeled
about older women. As a 62 year old, I deserve to be talked to and about in
a nice way just as a child does. Fortunately I have developed skills over
the years to deal with stress and in the best of all worlds parents have
these skills to pass on to their kids. This would have been and still is a
good opportunity for this mom to model and communicate things to her son
that will fortify him and that will be more useful and better for everyone
than dealing with feelings by expressing ill will and prejudice towards a
particular segment of the population. I have spent my whole life advocating
for children. My husband and I have grown kids that were never in school and
who were unschooled. I founded and was director of one of only two
non-coercive un-schools in the country that was publicly funded. At this
un-school, young people ages 5 to 19 could spend their time (within the
constraints of safety) any way they chose. They were not separated by age
and they pretty much ran the show. Parents, friends and siblings were always
welcome and it was not a prison. They could come and go at any time with
their parents consent and they could attend the number of hours that they
wanted. There was a process in place for kids to fire the staff if they
chose to. The kids also decided how money was spent and through a democratic
process where students (for lack of a better word) each had one vote
regardless of age, made decisions. My goal was to create a village for
families based on unschooling principles and it went on for 6 years. This
school closed a year ago when the state changed the way alternatives were
funded. Since then I have been working as a life coach. One of my
specialties is working with parents. I am writing this not to toot my own
horn about myself, but rather to point out that there are many people
(regardless of age) who are or may become allies and who can be a source of
support. There are also people of all ages who act badly. In my opinion, a
culture that steals away the sovereignty of children and that disrespects
and disempowers elders is in great trouble.
I have never posted here before, but felt I needed to speak up about this. I
appreciate that you are all here and that you are trying to do something
that is extraordinary in our culture. Thanks you for listening.
diana jenner
I work in a local cafe and we service lots of mamas and their kids during
the day. A few weeks ago was one boy's first trip to our shop... I noticed
mama was having a great time with the other mamas and her toddler was in the
toy/play area but the bigger boy (4-5?) was out of my line of sight. Later
his mama came to ask for cleaning supplies for him to "clean up the mess he
made by the water station" - He'd obviously had already been shamed for
doing what any curious kid would wanna do, while his mama hung out with her
friends, ignoring him. Though I had a great many things I wanted to say to
her, I wanted a peaceful resolution *more.* I looked at him with a smile and
said, don't worry about it, I'll clean it up, it's my job. She was about to
insist and I assured her it was fine and would be taken care of and I did.
They came back recently. I kept a closer eye on the boy this time, thinking
of ways to occupy him. He found a syrup dispenser. While I watched, he
looked at his reflection, admired the opening mechanism, watched the syrup's
slow swirl as he moved it, truly *enjoyed* this experience -- he caught my
eye and jumped! I quickly smiled and was about to talk to him when his mama
noticed and came over *to yell at him* - I stopped her (put up my hand and
smiled) and told her I was watching and it was just fine, he didn't put
anything in his mouth or touch it to his face. I quickly gave him coffee
filters and highlighters, found bread ties and I had kids (we'd caught the
attention of a couple of more by then) making butterflies at the counter. He
was SO happy to have this craft (tho he tried in vain to get his mama to
admire it) and fly it around; he couldn't wait to show his friends. Less
than 10 cents and 10 minutes.
I'd not expect this kind of service everywhere I went with kids, I sure do
appreciate it when I find it. And I'm glad to provide it. The world has
plenty of crabby folk, what we need most (and our kids *for sure*) is more
models of gentle and forgiving ways of being.
Plus, it's not that tough to have simple things like that in your purse to
pull out for the kids to do at the table while they're waiting for you. I
still carry stuff for Hayden, 9.5, when we're out and about (yesterday it
was hemp, sharpies, paper, and peg games for a trip to the beach and I
pulled out a surprise finger kite, though we had no wind!) ready for his
need for something to do at a moments notice &/or to fill those gaps in
activities.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the day. A few weeks ago was one boy's first trip to our shop... I noticed
mama was having a great time with the other mamas and her toddler was in the
toy/play area but the bigger boy (4-5?) was out of my line of sight. Later
his mama came to ask for cleaning supplies for him to "clean up the mess he
made by the water station" - He'd obviously had already been shamed for
doing what any curious kid would wanna do, while his mama hung out with her
friends, ignoring him. Though I had a great many things I wanted to say to
her, I wanted a peaceful resolution *more.* I looked at him with a smile and
said, don't worry about it, I'll clean it up, it's my job. She was about to
insist and I assured her it was fine and would be taken care of and I did.
They came back recently. I kept a closer eye on the boy this time, thinking
of ways to occupy him. He found a syrup dispenser. While I watched, he
looked at his reflection, admired the opening mechanism, watched the syrup's
slow swirl as he moved it, truly *enjoyed* this experience -- he caught my
eye and jumped! I quickly smiled and was about to talk to him when his mama
noticed and came over *to yell at him* - I stopped her (put up my hand and
smiled) and told her I was watching and it was just fine, he didn't put
anything in his mouth or touch it to his face. I quickly gave him coffee
filters and highlighters, found bread ties and I had kids (we'd caught the
attention of a couple of more by then) making butterflies at the counter. He
was SO happy to have this craft (tho he tried in vain to get his mama to
admire it) and fly it around; he couldn't wait to show his friends. Less
than 10 cents and 10 minutes.
I'd not expect this kind of service everywhere I went with kids, I sure do
appreciate it when I find it. And I'm glad to provide it. The world has
plenty of crabby folk, what we need most (and our kids *for sure*) is more
models of gentle and forgiving ways of being.
Plus, it's not that tough to have simple things like that in your purse to
pull out for the kids to do at the table while they're waiting for you. I
still carry stuff for Hayden, 9.5, when we're out and about (yesterday it
was hemp, sharpies, paper, and peg games for a trip to the beach and I
pulled out a surprise finger kite, though we had no wind!) ready for his
need for something to do at a moments notice &/or to fill those gaps in
activities.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Feb 27, 2008, at 1:37 PM, diana jenner wrote:
cards, a little travel game, a little box of colored pencils, or
something in my purse and I'm also really good at thinking up super
quick little games to play with coffee stirrers or straws or coins.
And I know lots of paper and pencil games. In fact, I have some
favorite coin games, paper and pencil games and dice games described
here:
<http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/iblog/math/C1810894749/index.html>
If you look at the categories, there are more games.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Plus, it's not that tough to have simple things like that in yourThat is a habit that I love and will never break. I always have dice,
> purse to
> pull out for the kids to do at the table while they're waiting for
> you. I
> still carry stuff for Hayden, 9.5, when we're out and about
> (yesterday it
> was hemp, sharpies, paper, and peg games for a trip to the beach and I
> pulled out a surprise finger kite, though we had no wind!) ready for
> his
> need for something to do at a moments notice &/or to fill those gaps
> in
> activities.
cards, a little travel game, a little box of colored pencils, or
something in my purse and I'm also really good at thinking up super
quick little games to play with coffee stirrers or straws or coins.
And I know lots of paper and pencil games. In fact, I have some
favorite coin games, paper and pencil games and dice games described
here:
<http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/iblog/math/C1810894749/index.html>
If you look at the categories, there are more games.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lindia6870
Hi, I felt sad to hear that someone was disrespectful and unkind, and
disappointed as well that there was ageist talk going on and being modeled
about older women. As a 62 year old, I deserve to be talked to and about in
a nice way just as a child does. Fortunately I have developed skills over
the years to deal with stress and in the best of all worlds parents have
these skills to pass on to their kids. This would have been and still is a
good opportunity for this mom to model and communicate things to her son
that will fortify him and that will be more useful and better for everyone
than dealing with feelings by expressing ill will and prejudice towards a
particular segment of the population. I have spent my whole life advocating
for children. My husband and I have grown kids that were never in school and
who were unschooled. I founded and was director of one of only two
non-coercive un-schools in the country that was publicly funded. At this
un-school, young people ages 5 to 19 could spend their time (within the
constraints of safety) any way they chose. They were not separated by age
and they pretty much ran the show. Parents, friends and siblings were always
welcome and it was not a prison. They could come and go at any time with
their parents consent and they could attend the number of hours that they
wanted. There was a process in place for kids to fire the staff if they
chose to. The kids also decided how money was spent and through a democratic
process where students (for lack of a better word) each had one vote
regardless of age, made decisions. My goal was to create a village for
families based on unschooling principles and it went on for 6 years. This
school closed a year ago when the state changed the way alternatives were
funded. Since then I have been working as a life coach. One of my
specialties is working with parents. I am writing this not to toot my own
horn about myself, but rather to point out that there are many people
(regardless of age) who are or may become allies and who can be a source of
support. There are also people of all ages who act badly. In my opinion, a
culture that steals away the sovereignty of children and that disrespects
and disempowers elders is in great trouble.
I have never posted here before, but felt I needed to speak up about this. I
appreciate that you are all here and that you are trying to do something
that is extraordinary in our culture. Thanks you for listening.
disappointed as well that there was ageist talk going on and being modeled
about older women. As a 62 year old, I deserve to be talked to and about in
a nice way just as a child does. Fortunately I have developed skills over
the years to deal with stress and in the best of all worlds parents have
these skills to pass on to their kids. This would have been and still is a
good opportunity for this mom to model and communicate things to her son
that will fortify him and that will be more useful and better for everyone
than dealing with feelings by expressing ill will and prejudice towards a
particular segment of the population. I have spent my whole life advocating
for children. My husband and I have grown kids that were never in school and
who were unschooled. I founded and was director of one of only two
non-coercive un-schools in the country that was publicly funded. At this
un-school, young people ages 5 to 19 could spend their time (within the
constraints of safety) any way they chose. They were not separated by age
and they pretty much ran the show. Parents, friends and siblings were always
welcome and it was not a prison. They could come and go at any time with
their parents consent and they could attend the number of hours that they
wanted. There was a process in place for kids to fire the staff if they
chose to. The kids also decided how money was spent and through a democratic
process where students (for lack of a better word) each had one vote
regardless of age, made decisions. My goal was to create a village for
families based on unschooling principles and it went on for 6 years. This
school closed a year ago when the state changed the way alternatives were
funded. Since then I have been working as a life coach. One of my
specialties is working with parents. I am writing this not to toot my own
horn about myself, but rather to point out that there are many people
(regardless of age) who are or may become allies and who can be a source of
support. There are also people of all ages who act badly. In my opinion, a
culture that steals away the sovereignty of children and that disrespects
and disempowers elders is in great trouble.
I have never posted here before, but felt I needed to speak up about this. I
appreciate that you are all here and that you are trying to do something
that is extraordinary in our culture. Thanks you for listening.
Pamela Sorooshian
About two weeks ago we were shopping at Marshalls. The guard at the
fitting rooms was a woman who was obviously sort of miserable - she
was just short of being overly rude to me when I went in. Roxana and
Rosie came in a few minutes later, I was inside and could hear, but
the woman didn't know they were with me. She was EXTREMELY rude,
barked at them because something wasn't on a hanger (the store is a
mess, lots of stuff off hangers, draped over the tops of racks, etc),
told them they were NOT allowed to share a dressing room, harshly told
them to bring the clothes out and let her count them again when they
were done. It was very hostile, and I knew my girls were probably
really embarrassed to be treated that way - there were lots of people
around - it was very public.
So, I stuck my head out and said, "I'm here." I could see they were
both flushed and maybe even near tears.
They didn't even want to try on the clothes - so I got dressed, we
took all the clothes out and handed them to her. As we walked away,
they complained quietly to me and I said, "I'd feel better if I said
something to the store manager." They hesitated, because they didn't
want me making a scene, but I said, "I won't make a scene, but I just
want to say something."
So I did. I said, "I just wanted to say that I have two very sweet,
honest girls here, and the woman in the dressing room was very rude to
them."
He apologized directly to them and said he'd speak to her about it. I
said thank you and we left.
I felt better about it because it was calm and reasonable and we then
went out the door and let it go - didn't dwell on it.
-pam
fitting rooms was a woman who was obviously sort of miserable - she
was just short of being overly rude to me when I went in. Roxana and
Rosie came in a few minutes later, I was inside and could hear, but
the woman didn't know they were with me. She was EXTREMELY rude,
barked at them because something wasn't on a hanger (the store is a
mess, lots of stuff off hangers, draped over the tops of racks, etc),
told them they were NOT allowed to share a dressing room, harshly told
them to bring the clothes out and let her count them again when they
were done. It was very hostile, and I knew my girls were probably
really embarrassed to be treated that way - there were lots of people
around - it was very public.
So, I stuck my head out and said, "I'm here." I could see they were
both flushed and maybe even near tears.
They didn't even want to try on the clothes - so I got dressed, we
took all the clothes out and handed them to her. As we walked away,
they complained quietly to me and I said, "I'd feel better if I said
something to the store manager." They hesitated, because they didn't
want me making a scene, but I said, "I won't make a scene, but I just
want to say something."
So I did. I said, "I just wanted to say that I have two very sweet,
honest girls here, and the woman in the dressing room was very rude to
them."
He apologized directly to them and said he'd speak to her about it. I
said thank you and we left.
I felt better about it because it was calm and reasonable and we then
went out the door and let it go - didn't dwell on it.
-pam
On Feb 27, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Tricia wrote:
> I have read all the responces here and while I usually don't post I
> felt I had to on this one.I would have went the f#*k off on someone
> telling my kid they were going to spank them,especially someone
> working in a restraunt we were visiting! A total freaking
> stranger.Come on people smelling,licking or snotting on a salt shaker
> does not give a worker in an establishment the right to tell your kid
> she is going to spank him if he does it again! And a 5 yr old at
> that,hell no!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-That is a habit that I love and will never break. I always have dice,
cards, a little travel game, a little box of colored pencils, or
something in my purse and I'm also really good at thinking up super
quick little games to play with coffee stirrers or straws or coins. -=-
Holly always keeps a very well-supplied purse. She has tweezers,
bandaids, antibiotic, scissors...
Today she came and asked where decks of cards were. I showed her my
personal stash, some going back to when I was in college. She found
a deck she liked and said she wants to keep cards in her purse.
She doesn't even have kids, but she was at the department of motor
vehicles yesterday. I'm guessing that was her inspiration.
She always has a notebook and colored pens, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cards, a little travel game, a little box of colored pencils, or
something in my purse and I'm also really good at thinking up super
quick little games to play with coffee stirrers or straws or coins. -=-
Holly always keeps a very well-supplied purse. She has tweezers,
bandaids, antibiotic, scissors...
Today she came and asked where decks of cards were. I showed her my
personal stash, some going back to when I was in college. She found
a deck she liked and said she wants to keep cards in her purse.
She doesn't even have kids, but she was at the department of motor
vehicles yesterday. I'm guessing that was her inspiration.
She always has a notebook and colored pens, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
And yet an adult in a store can pick something up to turn it over and
examine it, especially if they are contemplating buying it.
Jayn liked to pick things up in stores like the little figurines in Longs
drug store. I always hovered very close. She was so delicate and careful
even as a two year old. Great fine motor skills! We were lucky. The couple
of times I noticed nervous associates, they also noticed me standing close
and her care, and nothing nasty or even cautionary was ever said. Of course,
this was mass market stuff, not something antique or unique.
The only time anyone has broken something in a store was me (and I put it
down to a design flaw in the object). I carried the thing to the cashier and
offered to pay and got told not to worry about it - thank you kind folk at
the Disney Store.
I think the waitress handled it unnecessarily harshly, and crossed the line
by threatening to spank or indeed say anything further to the child, once
the mom was there and able to communicate. Having worked in restaurants at
different times, including a graveyard shift when all the big cleaning gets
done, I can tell you that even salt and pepper shakers do get washed if they
aren't absolutely disposable. My feeling was that the waitress was being
disingenuous about the whole "have to throw it away" guilt trip.
However we can't expect everyone we meet in life to be as kind and pleasant
and respectful as unschoolers!
I thought Melissa spoke wonderfully to the waitress. I wish I had her poise.
I tend to just leave places.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
examine it, especially if they are contemplating buying it.
Jayn liked to pick things up in stores like the little figurines in Longs
drug store. I always hovered very close. She was so delicate and careful
even as a two year old. Great fine motor skills! We were lucky. The couple
of times I noticed nervous associates, they also noticed me standing close
and her care, and nothing nasty or even cautionary was ever said. Of course,
this was mass market stuff, not something antique or unique.
The only time anyone has broken something in a store was me (and I put it
down to a design flaw in the object). I carried the thing to the cashier and
offered to pay and got told not to worry about it - thank you kind folk at
the Disney Store.
I think the waitress handled it unnecessarily harshly, and crossed the line
by threatening to spank or indeed say anything further to the child, once
the mom was there and able to communicate. Having worked in restaurants at
different times, including a graveyard shift when all the big cleaning gets
done, I can tell you that even salt and pepper shakers do get washed if they
aren't absolutely disposable. My feeling was that the waitress was being
disingenuous about the whole "have to throw it away" guilt trip.
However we can't expect everyone we meet in life to be as kind and pleasant
and respectful as unschoolers!
I thought Melissa spoke wonderfully to the waitress. I wish I had her poise.
I tend to just leave places.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Tricia Mccay
And that is probably what I would have done in the same situation,but this guard din't tell your 5 yr old she would spank him either.I am not trying to be a poop stirrer,I really think that lady (no matter her age,I am 51) should have been reported.
Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote: About two weeks ago we were shopping at Marshalls. The guard at the
fitting rooms was a woman who was obviously sort of miserable - she
was just short of being overly rude to me when I went in. Roxana and
Rosie came in a few minutes later, I was inside and could hear, but
the woman didn't know they were with me. She was EXTREMELY rude,
barked at them because something wasn't on a hanger (the store is a
mess, lots of stuff off hangers, draped over the tops of racks, etc),
told them they were NOT allowed to share a dressing room, harshly told
them to bring the clothes out and let her count them again when they
were done. It was very hostile, and I knew my girls were probably
really embarrassed to be treated that way - there were lots of people
around - it was very public.
So, I stuck my head out and said, "I'm here." I could see they were
both flushed and maybe even near tears.
They didn't even want to try on the clothes - so I got dressed, we
took all the clothes out and handed them to her. As we walked away,
they complained quietly to me and I said, "I'd feel better if I said
something to the store manager." They hesitated, because they didn't
want me making a scene, but I said, "I won't make a scene, but I just
want to say something."
So I did. I said, "I just wanted to say that I have two very sweet,
honest girls here, and the woman in the dressing room was very rude to
them."
He apologized directly to them and said he'd speak to her about it. I
said thank you and we left.
I felt better about it because it was calm and reasonable and we then
went out the door and let it go - didn't dwell on it.
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote: About two weeks ago we were shopping at Marshalls. The guard at the
fitting rooms was a woman who was obviously sort of miserable - she
was just short of being overly rude to me when I went in. Roxana and
Rosie came in a few minutes later, I was inside and could hear, but
the woman didn't know they were with me. She was EXTREMELY rude,
barked at them because something wasn't on a hanger (the store is a
mess, lots of stuff off hangers, draped over the tops of racks, etc),
told them they were NOT allowed to share a dressing room, harshly told
them to bring the clothes out and let her count them again when they
were done. It was very hostile, and I knew my girls were probably
really embarrassed to be treated that way - there were lots of people
around - it was very public.
So, I stuck my head out and said, "I'm here." I could see they were
both flushed and maybe even near tears.
They didn't even want to try on the clothes - so I got dressed, we
took all the clothes out and handed them to her. As we walked away,
they complained quietly to me and I said, "I'd feel better if I said
something to the store manager." They hesitated, because they didn't
want me making a scene, but I said, "I won't make a scene, but I just
want to say something."
So I did. I said, "I just wanted to say that I have two very sweet,
honest girls here, and the woman in the dressing room was very rude to
them."
He apologized directly to them and said he'd speak to her about it. I
said thank you and we left.
I felt better about it because it was calm and reasonable and we then
went out the door and let it go - didn't dwell on it.
-pam
On Feb 27, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Tricia wrote:
> I have read all the responces here and while I usually don't post I
> felt I had to on this one.I would have went the f#*k off on someone
> telling my kid they were going to spank them,especially someone
> working in a restraunt we were visiting! A total freaking
> stranger.Come on people smelling,licking or snotting on a salt shaker
> does not give a worker in an establishment the right to tell your kid
> she is going to spank him if he does it again! And a 5 yr old at
> that,hell no!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hpmarker
Diana,
I'm a devoted lurker at your blogs, but I had to come out of hiding
for this post to tell you that YOU ROCK!!!!!
-Hallie
--- In [email protected], "diana jenner" <hahamommy@...>
wrote:
I'm a devoted lurker at your blogs, but I had to come out of hiding
for this post to tell you that YOU ROCK!!!!!
-Hallie
--- In [email protected], "diana jenner" <hahamommy@...>
wrote:
>during
> I work in a local cafe and we service lots of mamas and their kids
> the day. A few weeks ago was one boy's first trip to our shop... Inoticed
> mama was having a great time with the other mamas and her toddlerwas in the
> toy/play area but the bigger boy (4-5?) was out of my line ofsight. Later
> his mama came to ask for cleaning supplies for him to "clean up themess he
> made by the water station" - He'd obviously had already been shamedfor
> doing what any curious kid would wanna do, while his mama hung outwith her
> friends, ignoring him. Though I had a great many things I wanted tosay to
> her, I wanted a peaceful resolution *more.* I looked at him with asmile and
> said, don't worry about it, I'll clean it up, it's my job. She wasabout to
> insist and I assured her it was fine and would be taken care of andI did.
> They came back recently. I kept a closer eye on the boy this time,thinking
> of ways to occupy him. He found a syrup dispenser. While I watched,he
> looked at his reflection, admired the opening mechanism, watchedthe syrup's
> slow swirl as he moved it, truly *enjoyed* this experience -- hecaught my
> eye and jumped! I quickly smiled and was about to talk to him whenhis mama
> noticed and came over *to yell at him* - I stopped her (put up myhand and
> smiled) and told her I was watching and it was just fine, he didn'tput
> anything in his mouth or touch it to his face. I quickly gave himcoffee
> filters and highlighters, found bread ties and I had kids (we'dcaught the
> attention of a couple of more by then) making butterflies at thecounter. He
> was SO happy to have this craft (tho he tried in vain to get hismama to
> admire it) and fly it around; he couldn't wait to show his friends.Less
> than 10 cents and 10 minutes.sure do
> I'd not expect this kind of service everywhere I went with kids, I
> appreciate it when I find it. And I'm glad to provide it. The worldhas
> plenty of crabby folk, what we need most (and our kids *for sure*)is more
> models of gentle and forgiving ways of being.purse to
> Plus, it's not that tough to have simple things like that in your
> pull out for the kids to do at the table while they're waiting foryou. I
> still carry stuff for Hayden, 9.5, when we're out and about(yesterday it
> was hemp, sharpies, paper, and peg games for a trip to the beachand I
> pulled out a surprise finger kite, though we had no wind!) readyfor his
> need for something to do at a moments notice &/or to fill thosegaps in
> activities.
> --
> ~diana :)
> xoxoxoxo
> hannahbearski.blogspot.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I am not trying to be a poop stirrer,I really think that lady (no
matter her age,I am 51) should have been reported.-=-
I would've reported the one at Marshall's, but not the one at
Wendy's, had it been me.
To say "should have been reported" is different from saying "I would
have reported it."
Not all people are equally comfortable with confrontation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
matter her age,I am 51) should have been reported.-=-
I would've reported the one at Marshall's, but not the one at
Wendy's, had it been me.
To say "should have been reported" is different from saying "I would
have reported it."
Not all people are equally comfortable with confrontation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]