How to better handle this situation
Lara Miller
One of the struggles I am having with unschooling parenting is what
to do when I feel my children have or are behaving inappropriately in
a public setting or when in someone else's home. I want them to have
freedom of choosing their own behavior, but at times "I" feel they
have crossed the line of acceptable and I fight this urge to jump
right in there and tell them what they need to be doing.
So here is what happened tonight. We had met another family out at a
rec hall to play some games. All of the kids were running around and
having a good time and I was explaining to the other dad how to play
this game we brought. My 8yo dd was playing under the table and
started taking the chairs and flipping them on their sides and making
a fort. The other dad, honestly thinking that dd was struggling to
turn the chairs back up right, "helped" her by taking her chairs that
she has specifically put the way she wanted and put them back
upright. Well you would have thought that the world had come to an
end. She shot up and started screaming and saying all kinds of very
inappropriate things, and saying them in such a way that they were
meant directly for this dad. In other words, she wasn't just
venting, she was bitching at him.
Well, I knew where she was coming from and have much experience with
her in these types of outbursts within our own family and close
friends who seem to understand her a bit more, but this was someone
new in our lives and I just didn't know what to do. I went over to
her and found out what was wrong, although I already knew. I
expressed to her the way she spoke to the dad was unacceptable and
she owed him an apology. Well I haven't done this in quite a while.
I can't stand the "now say your sorry in a sing-song voice but don't
really mean it" apology. But I really felt in this instance, she
owed him an apology. I have been asking myself lately (thanks to
some great advice) "would I say this to or ask this of my husband or
a friend" and I have to answer in this situation - yes. If my friend
acted that way to another one of our friends, i think I would say
"girl, you owe him an apology".
So anyhow, dd doesn't like to be put on the spot, especially with
someone she isn't familiar with. I have her come back over with me
to the table and sit beside of me (across from him) and ask her when
she is ready she can apologize. At this point I just feel awful. I
do not like what i am doing with her, but feel like I had gotten
myself into a situation I didn't know how to get out of. While she
was sitting, the dad and I continue on with our game and she starts
crying. She doesn't want to talk to him. I probably wouldn't either
if I were in her situation (yes, I know the situation that I
created). Finally I told her that if she would like to write it on
paper that would be fine, she didn't have to talk to him. A few
minutes passed and she wrote it down and I gave it to him and he
wrote her a sweet note back. Dd and I hugged and then she ran off
and stated playing like nothing had happened.
How do you handle this? When your child is rude to another. And I
don't mean they forgot to say please, but really really nasty with
another person. A similar situation happened (not this the whole
apologizing thing, but rude behavior) when we were staying at my in-
laws for the night and my two boys were taking a bath together in
Grandma and Grandpa's big giant wonderful tub in their perfect
house. <g> They were getting wilder and wilder and the water was
slashing wider and higher making big spots all over their non-tiled
walls and I repeatedly asked them to calm down, made a bunch of idle
threats and finally because my FIL was about to have a coronary in
the other room, I turned into mean mommy and the rest of the night
was a disaster.
Should I have certain standards or expectations or whatever when it
comes to other people and their stuff and how my kids treat them? I
know in both situations and other similar ones, part of MY problem is
that I feel as if I am being heavily judged by the offended person
and there is a part of me that worries what they think of how I am
handling the situation. The other part of me just doesn't care, but
mostly I wonder "are there limits"? What to do?
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently just outside of Mobile, AL!
http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to do when I feel my children have or are behaving inappropriately in
a public setting or when in someone else's home. I want them to have
freedom of choosing their own behavior, but at times "I" feel they
have crossed the line of acceptable and I fight this urge to jump
right in there and tell them what they need to be doing.
So here is what happened tonight. We had met another family out at a
rec hall to play some games. All of the kids were running around and
having a good time and I was explaining to the other dad how to play
this game we brought. My 8yo dd was playing under the table and
started taking the chairs and flipping them on their sides and making
a fort. The other dad, honestly thinking that dd was struggling to
turn the chairs back up right, "helped" her by taking her chairs that
she has specifically put the way she wanted and put them back
upright. Well you would have thought that the world had come to an
end. She shot up and started screaming and saying all kinds of very
inappropriate things, and saying them in such a way that they were
meant directly for this dad. In other words, she wasn't just
venting, she was bitching at him.
Well, I knew where she was coming from and have much experience with
her in these types of outbursts within our own family and close
friends who seem to understand her a bit more, but this was someone
new in our lives and I just didn't know what to do. I went over to
her and found out what was wrong, although I already knew. I
expressed to her the way she spoke to the dad was unacceptable and
she owed him an apology. Well I haven't done this in quite a while.
I can't stand the "now say your sorry in a sing-song voice but don't
really mean it" apology. But I really felt in this instance, she
owed him an apology. I have been asking myself lately (thanks to
some great advice) "would I say this to or ask this of my husband or
a friend" and I have to answer in this situation - yes. If my friend
acted that way to another one of our friends, i think I would say
"girl, you owe him an apology".
So anyhow, dd doesn't like to be put on the spot, especially with
someone she isn't familiar with. I have her come back over with me
to the table and sit beside of me (across from him) and ask her when
she is ready she can apologize. At this point I just feel awful. I
do not like what i am doing with her, but feel like I had gotten
myself into a situation I didn't know how to get out of. While she
was sitting, the dad and I continue on with our game and she starts
crying. She doesn't want to talk to him. I probably wouldn't either
if I were in her situation (yes, I know the situation that I
created). Finally I told her that if she would like to write it on
paper that would be fine, she didn't have to talk to him. A few
minutes passed and she wrote it down and I gave it to him and he
wrote her a sweet note back. Dd and I hugged and then she ran off
and stated playing like nothing had happened.
How do you handle this? When your child is rude to another. And I
don't mean they forgot to say please, but really really nasty with
another person. A similar situation happened (not this the whole
apologizing thing, but rude behavior) when we were staying at my in-
laws for the night and my two boys were taking a bath together in
Grandma and Grandpa's big giant wonderful tub in their perfect
house. <g> They were getting wilder and wilder and the water was
slashing wider and higher making big spots all over their non-tiled
walls and I repeatedly asked them to calm down, made a bunch of idle
threats and finally because my FIL was about to have a coronary in
the other room, I turned into mean mommy and the rest of the night
was a disaster.
Should I have certain standards or expectations or whatever when it
comes to other people and their stuff and how my kids treat them? I
know in both situations and other similar ones, part of MY problem is
that I feel as if I am being heavily judged by the offended person
and there is a part of me that worries what they think of how I am
handling the situation. The other part of me just doesn't care, but
mostly I wonder "are there limits"? What to do?
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently just outside of Mobile, AL!
http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I want them to have
freedom of choosing their own behavior, but at times "I" feel they
have crossed the line of acceptable and I fight this urge to jump
right in there and tell them what they need to be doing.-=-
There's choosing from a reasonable range of behaviors, and choosing
from an unlimited range. There are almost always real-life
limitations to what's acceptable (safe, polite, legal) in any given
place and time, and moms have a responsibility to keep their kids
within that range.
-=-I expressed to her the way she spoke to the dad was unacceptable and
she owed him an apology. Well I haven't done this in quite a while.
I can't stand the "now say your sorry in a sing-song voice but don't
really mean it" apology. But I really felt in this instance, she
owed him an apology. I have been asking myself lately (thanks to
some great advice) "would I say this to or ask this of my husband or
a friend" and I have to answer in this situation - yes. If my friend
acted that way to another one of our friends, i think I would say
"girl, you owe him an apology".-=-
I agree with you. There are other ways to deal with it, though. You
might have apologized for her, explained in as neutral a way as you
could, found some chairs she COULD turn on their sides (IF that was a
good idea; the rec manager might have thought no).
-=-I told her that if she would like to write it on
paper that would be fine, she didn't have to talk to him. A few
minutes passed and she wrote it down and I gave it to him and he
wrote her a sweet note back. Dd and I hugged and then she ran off
and stated playing like nothing had happened.-=-
That seems like a pretty cool solution!
-=-Should I have certain standards or expectations or whatever when
it comes to other people and their stuff and how my kids treat them? -=-
Yes, absolutely.
(Anyone who disagrees with my answer on that, don't bring your kids
to visit my house--seriously.)
-=-part of MY problem is
that I feel as if I am being heavily judged by the offended person
and there is a part of me that worries what they think of how I am
handling the situation.-=-
But they are. Every time we make a choice where other people are,
they see it and they have an opinion. That can't be helped.
If you let your kids damage someone else's stuff, you helped them,
pretty effectively, so it's more than a judgment of your tone of
voice and handling. It's whether YOU care about the other person's
stuff. I have a guitar out in the living room right now, leaning up
in a corner, not in a case. We've only had teens and older here for
a long time, and I'm not worried about it, but if little kids came
over and I forgot the guitar was there and the mom didn't move
QUICKLY to get between her kids and the guitar, I'd be cranky with
the mom. If I thought about it I'd take the guitar where kids
couldn't see it, and put out some kid-safe instruments.
-=-The other part of me just doesn't care, but
mostly I wonder "are there limits"? What to do?-=-
Other people's property is important.
The peace of another person's house is theirs. If they want so much
peace you can't have a pleasant visit at all, then they might lose
the privilege of seeing you.
When mine were small and the grandparents were nervous about their
noise and movement, we figured out that public places were best, or
out in the yard. Miniature golf in Ruidoso, children's museum in
Albuquerque, the little zoo and train in Alamogordo, where they live--
any of those neutral and kid-friendly places were safer and better
places to hang out. The kids could be quick and loud AND impress the
grandparents with their cleverness, and the house was safe and quiet
meanwhile.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
freedom of choosing their own behavior, but at times "I" feel they
have crossed the line of acceptable and I fight this urge to jump
right in there and tell them what they need to be doing.-=-
There's choosing from a reasonable range of behaviors, and choosing
from an unlimited range. There are almost always real-life
limitations to what's acceptable (safe, polite, legal) in any given
place and time, and moms have a responsibility to keep their kids
within that range.
-=-I expressed to her the way she spoke to the dad was unacceptable and
she owed him an apology. Well I haven't done this in quite a while.
I can't stand the "now say your sorry in a sing-song voice but don't
really mean it" apology. But I really felt in this instance, she
owed him an apology. I have been asking myself lately (thanks to
some great advice) "would I say this to or ask this of my husband or
a friend" and I have to answer in this situation - yes. If my friend
acted that way to another one of our friends, i think I would say
"girl, you owe him an apology".-=-
I agree with you. There are other ways to deal with it, though. You
might have apologized for her, explained in as neutral a way as you
could, found some chairs she COULD turn on their sides (IF that was a
good idea; the rec manager might have thought no).
-=-I told her that if she would like to write it on
paper that would be fine, she didn't have to talk to him. A few
minutes passed and she wrote it down and I gave it to him and he
wrote her a sweet note back. Dd and I hugged and then she ran off
and stated playing like nothing had happened.-=-
That seems like a pretty cool solution!
-=-Should I have certain standards or expectations or whatever when
it comes to other people and their stuff and how my kids treat them? -=-
Yes, absolutely.
(Anyone who disagrees with my answer on that, don't bring your kids
to visit my house--seriously.)
-=-part of MY problem is
that I feel as if I am being heavily judged by the offended person
and there is a part of me that worries what they think of how I am
handling the situation.-=-
But they are. Every time we make a choice where other people are,
they see it and they have an opinion. That can't be helped.
If you let your kids damage someone else's stuff, you helped them,
pretty effectively, so it's more than a judgment of your tone of
voice and handling. It's whether YOU care about the other person's
stuff. I have a guitar out in the living room right now, leaning up
in a corner, not in a case. We've only had teens and older here for
a long time, and I'm not worried about it, but if little kids came
over and I forgot the guitar was there and the mom didn't move
QUICKLY to get between her kids and the guitar, I'd be cranky with
the mom. If I thought about it I'd take the guitar where kids
couldn't see it, and put out some kid-safe instruments.
-=-The other part of me just doesn't care, but
mostly I wonder "are there limits"? What to do?-=-
Other people's property is important.
The peace of another person's house is theirs. If they want so much
peace you can't have a pleasant visit at all, then they might lose
the privilege of seeing you.
When mine were small and the grandparents were nervous about their
noise and movement, we figured out that public places were best, or
out in the yard. Miniature golf in Ruidoso, children's museum in
Albuquerque, the little zoo and train in Alamogordo, where they live--
any of those neutral and kid-friendly places were safer and better
places to hang out. The kids could be quick and loud AND impress the
grandparents with their cleverness, and the house was safe and quiet
meanwhile.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:39:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
If you let your kids damage someone else's stuff, you helped them,
pretty effectively, so it's more than a judgment of your tone of
voice and handling. It's whether YOU care about the other person's
stuff. I have a guitar out in the living room right now, leaning up
in a corner, not in a case. We've only had teens and older here for
a long time, and I'm not worried about it, but if little kids came
over and I forgot the guitar was there and the mom didn't move
QUICKLY to get between her kids and the guitar, I'd be cranky with
the mom. If I thought about it I'd take the guitar where kids
couldn't see it, and put out some kid-safe instruments.
*********
That's what I have done too , remove *delicate* items.
But what about a situation where you can't move something?
Like the couch. I know it's fun to jump on couches, but the fact is ,I don't
*want* other kids jumping on our couch when they are at our house. My kids
even get annoyed when they see it, but yet wouldn't say anything <<G>>.
We have one good couch in the main room of the house. We all want it to stay
fairly good-looking for *us*, and we don't have money to go buy another one.
My own kids don't even jump on our couch. Instead, there are mini
trampolines, and mattresses, cushions and pillows to jump on.
So what do you do when other kids jump on your furniture, and you don't want
them to?, especially if these parents are trying to *get* unschooling?
~marcia
HarmonyWoodsFarm
_http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony_
(http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
If you let your kids damage someone else's stuff, you helped them,
pretty effectively, so it's more than a judgment of your tone of
voice and handling. It's whether YOU care about the other person's
stuff. I have a guitar out in the living room right now, leaning up
in a corner, not in a case. We've only had teens and older here for
a long time, and I'm not worried about it, but if little kids came
over and I forgot the guitar was there and the mom didn't move
QUICKLY to get between her kids and the guitar, I'd be cranky with
the mom. If I thought about it I'd take the guitar where kids
couldn't see it, and put out some kid-safe instruments.
*********
That's what I have done too , remove *delicate* items.
But what about a situation where you can't move something?
Like the couch. I know it's fun to jump on couches, but the fact is ,I don't
*want* other kids jumping on our couch when they are at our house. My kids
even get annoyed when they see it, but yet wouldn't say anything <<G>>.
We have one good couch in the main room of the house. We all want it to stay
fairly good-looking for *us*, and we don't have money to go buy another one.
My own kids don't even jump on our couch. Instead, there are mini
trampolines, and mattresses, cushions and pillows to jump on.
So what do you do when other kids jump on your furniture, and you don't want
them to?, especially if these parents are trying to *get* unschooling?
~marcia
HarmonyWoodsFarm
_http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony_
(http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<< So what do you do when other kids jump on your furniture, and you don't
want
jump instead."
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
want
> them to?, especially if these parents are trying to *get* unschooling? >>>Say "Please don't jump on our couch. Here's the trampoline where you can
jump instead."
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/24/2008 7:32:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dezigna@... writes:
Say "Please don't jump on our couch. Here's the trampoline where you can
jump instead."
************
How very simple :)
Thanks Robyn.
~marcia
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
Say "Please don't jump on our couch. Here's the trampoline where you can
jump instead."
************
How very simple :)
Thanks Robyn.
~marcia
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lara Miller
> "I agree with you. There are other ways to deal with it, though. You[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> might have apologized for her, explained in as neutral a way as you
> could, found some chairs she COULD turn on their sides (IF that was a
> good idea; the rec manager might have thought no)."
>
> She even asked me if I could tell him. I don't know why I didn't,
> it just didn't seem right. I thought that she said all of the mean
> word, she can say the apology. The chairs were never the problem,
> neither of us had a problem with what she was doing, he just didn't
> know what she was doing and thought she needed help getting them up.
>
> "Other people's property is important."
>
> So with my boys taking a very splashy bath. What to do there. We
> don't have a tub, so it is a big novelty to take a big bubbly bath
> and want for them to be able to do that. I personally feel the my
> in-laws are way over the top when it come to keeping their stuff
> perfect. So I agree with my kids. But it isn't our stuff. The
> kids wouldn't stop what they were doing, no matter how I asked
> them. It seemed at the time, the only way for me to resolve this
> situation was to become the type of mom I don't want to be. And
> the kids don't want it either as the rest of the evening was a
> disaster. I was grumpy, they were pissed and it just kept
> escalating out of control.
>
> "The peace of another person's house is theirs. If they want so much
> peace you can't have a pleasant visit at all, then they might lose
> the privilege of seeing you."
>
> Almost two years ago, dh and I made the decision that we couldn't
> stay with his parents anymore due to this very fact. We hadn't
> planned on staying the night. The kids had been there all day and
> when we came to pick them up, we got suckered into staying there.
> Oh well, lesson learned - again!
>
> Another issue I have is my boys are very physical with each other
> and wrestle constantly. In the living room, in the yard, in the
> library, in the park, in the line at the grocery store... I talk
> with them about inside and outside places and they can't do it here
> or there, but can here and there. I think maybe I need to give
> them a task to focus on. Maybe that would keep them distracted.
> If you have seen Ice Age 2, my boys are just like those two possum
> brothers! They are 6 & 9, and I think old enough to be better in
> control of their bodies. But it is very frustrating and I find
> myself not able to focus on the task at hand, like looking for a
> specific type of grocery when they are head butting each other in
> the isle!
>
> Blessings,
>
> Lara Miller
> Currently just outside of Mobile, AL!
> http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
>
>
>
>
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Sandra Dodd
-=-But what about a situation where you can't move something?
Like the couch. I know it's fun to jump on couches, but the fact
is ,I don't
*want* other kids jumping on our couch when they are at our house. My
kids
even get annoyed when they see it, but yet wouldn't say anything
<<G>>.-=-
Say "Get off the couch." Say it to homeless guys who might wander in
and jump on your couch. Say it to three-year-olds whose moms aren't
polite or with-it enough to beat you to it. It's your couch!!
Say "If you want to jump, there's a trampoline out back."
If they shoot you a dirty look or the mom starts jabbering on about
her child's self expression...
Well what I'd do is say "Get out of my house and don't come back."
"I don't want people doing that to my couch" (or guitar, or stove, or
car, or flower bed, or TV... that's plenty to cause bad behavior to
stop right then, and right there.
There was someone who came to another discussion list years back, and
she was of a philosophy (not very widespread or successful as far as
I've seen) of figuring out how kids could do whatever on earth they
wanted to do. She assured us all that if she came to visit that if
her children wanted to walk on our coffee tables, she would try to
figure out a way to persuade us to let them. I told her not to come
to my house. I did talk to someone later who had visited with her
and her children (I don't remember in whose home, or what) but the
reports were NOT positive.
My kids would have been very careful with anyone else's coffee table,
or Ninja Turtles, or Barbie clothes, or swingset, because we had
practiced at home being careful with other people's things. It
didn't have to do with rules or threats, it had to do with
understanding and caring about the principles involved in being good
people who will be welcomed into places and situations, and probably
invited back (or praised, or hired, as years passed).
There is nothing whatsoever in unschooling that suggests that it's
okay to behave badly in public or to misuse other people's things.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Like the couch. I know it's fun to jump on couches, but the fact
is ,I don't
*want* other kids jumping on our couch when they are at our house. My
kids
even get annoyed when they see it, but yet wouldn't say anything
<<G>>.-=-
Say "Get off the couch." Say it to homeless guys who might wander in
and jump on your couch. Say it to three-year-olds whose moms aren't
polite or with-it enough to beat you to it. It's your couch!!
Say "If you want to jump, there's a trampoline out back."
If they shoot you a dirty look or the mom starts jabbering on about
her child's self expression...
Well what I'd do is say "Get out of my house and don't come back."
"I don't want people doing that to my couch" (or guitar, or stove, or
car, or flower bed, or TV... that's plenty to cause bad behavior to
stop right then, and right there.
There was someone who came to another discussion list years back, and
she was of a philosophy (not very widespread or successful as far as
I've seen) of figuring out how kids could do whatever on earth they
wanted to do. She assured us all that if she came to visit that if
her children wanted to walk on our coffee tables, she would try to
figure out a way to persuade us to let them. I told her not to come
to my house. I did talk to someone later who had visited with her
and her children (I don't remember in whose home, or what) but the
reports were NOT positive.
My kids would have been very careful with anyone else's coffee table,
or Ninja Turtles, or Barbie clothes, or swingset, because we had
practiced at home being careful with other people's things. It
didn't have to do with rules or threats, it had to do with
understanding and caring about the principles involved in being good
people who will be welcomed into places and situations, and probably
invited back (or praised, or hired, as years passed).
There is nothing whatsoever in unschooling that suggests that it's
okay to behave badly in public or to misuse other people's things.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/24/2008 12:03:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
My kids would have been very careful with anyone else's coffee table,
or Ninja Turtles, or Barbie clothes, or swingset, because we had
practiced at home being careful with other people's things. It
didn't have to do with rules or threats, it had to do with
understanding and caring about the principles involved in being good
people who will be welcomed into places and situations, and probably
invited back (or praised, or hired, as years passed).
There is nothing whatsoever in unschooling that suggests that it's
okay to behave badly in public or to misuse other people's things.
Sandra
+++++
My kids would never even think of jumping on other people's couches, etc
cuz they respect our,and other people's,belongings.
But i think some people,in their journey to *get* unschooling and put it
into practice, think it IS ok for their child to do just about everything. They
believe if their child *wants* to do it, then they should go along with it.
There have been times in the past that I said nothing and held my breath and
just waited for the visit to be over but never wanted them back.
Another time I was asked if i minded (after it went on for quite awhile
already)
and I unfortunately said no, which was sooo wrong cuz I did mind. It was
awkward to be put on the spot.
But it's up to ME to say how I feel and I feel better prepared
for a next time.
~marcia
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
My kids would have been very careful with anyone else's coffee table,
or Ninja Turtles, or Barbie clothes, or swingset, because we had
practiced at home being careful with other people's things. It
didn't have to do with rules or threats, it had to do with
understanding and caring about the principles involved in being good
people who will be welcomed into places and situations, and probably
invited back (or praised, or hired, as years passed).
There is nothing whatsoever in unschooling that suggests that it's
okay to behave badly in public or to misuse other people's things.
Sandra
+++++
My kids would never even think of jumping on other people's couches, etc
cuz they respect our,and other people's,belongings.
But i think some people,in their journey to *get* unschooling and put it
into practice, think it IS ok for their child to do just about everything. They
believe if their child *wants* to do it, then they should go along with it.
There have been times in the past that I said nothing and held my breath and
just waited for the visit to be over but never wanted them back.
Another time I was asked if i minded (after it went on for quite awhile
already)
and I unfortunately said no, which was sooo wrong cuz I did mind. It was
awkward to be put on the spot.
But it's up to ME to say how I feel and I feel better prepared
for a next time.
~marcia
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
susanleeb52
The other thing that can be very helpful is to have an inexhaustible
mental list of "things that would be more fun than..."
If you have a few games to play while you're waiting in line at the
checkout, and you start playing them *before* your guys start
wrestling, you might be able to avoid the problem. These can be
things like the No Materials Games (linked on the math section?), or
things that channel their energy in a less-damaging direction (we
play "Can You Jump This High?" with my hand up in the air).
If the kids are splashing in the tub, offer something better (this is
hard, I know, when it's something as fun as splashing). Bring
shaving cream to spray on the water and mess with, or a spray bottle
(this would only help if there's a tub surround, but if there is,
then it helps to direct the splashing), or put ice in the tub to play
with (nod to Sandra on that one), or have them put their ears under
water to see if they can hear when you bang on the tub in different
places.
I think we definitely need to give our kids information about
protecting other people's property, so I'm not suggesting that you
*only* offer other games and never mention the problem with water on
the walls. But depending on the child in question, you might have
better luck with the suggested alternative game if it's just a new
game, instead of "something we have to do because we can't splash."
And then, while everyone is drying off, you can mention how water
makes plaster soggy.
If all else fails and I have to remove ds from a situation because we
just can't turn it around, things go much better if I can keep myself
out of the angry, frustrated place. If I can be matter-of-fact and
sympathetic, the rest of the day or evening goes more smoothly.
mental list of "things that would be more fun than..."
If you have a few games to play while you're waiting in line at the
checkout, and you start playing them *before* your guys start
wrestling, you might be able to avoid the problem. These can be
things like the No Materials Games (linked on the math section?), or
things that channel their energy in a less-damaging direction (we
play "Can You Jump This High?" with my hand up in the air).
If the kids are splashing in the tub, offer something better (this is
hard, I know, when it's something as fun as splashing). Bring
shaving cream to spray on the water and mess with, or a spray bottle
(this would only help if there's a tub surround, but if there is,
then it helps to direct the splashing), or put ice in the tub to play
with (nod to Sandra on that one), or have them put their ears under
water to see if they can hear when you bang on the tub in different
places.
I think we definitely need to give our kids information about
protecting other people's property, so I'm not suggesting that you
*only* offer other games and never mention the problem with water on
the walls. But depending on the child in question, you might have
better luck with the suggested alternative game if it's just a new
game, instead of "something we have to do because we can't splash."
And then, while everyone is drying off, you can mention how water
makes plaster soggy.
If all else fails and I have to remove ds from a situation because we
just can't turn it around, things go much better if I can keep myself
out of the angry, frustrated place. If I can be matter-of-fact and
sympathetic, the rest of the day or evening goes more smoothly.
Sandra Dodd
-=-> So with my boys taking a very splashy bath. What to do there. We
towel, maybe let half the water out so splashing didn't go so far,
while telling the other one to keep the water in the tub. Then
switch the boys out after a while so there was only one in the tub at
a time, but he still wasn't in the bathroom all alone.
If you don't have a tub, you could do what people did fifty years
ago (what some still do): Buy a #2 washtub, or a trough (Rubbermaid
makes plastic ones now), and fill it up with soapy water on a porch
or in a room without carpet, and let them have a bath there. It
might not work if you live in an apartment or a rental, but it's
worth considering.
And if you get a trough, you can have a hot tub (if you own a yard
with some outside area) with the addition of this:
http://www.cowboyhottubs.com/
Or you could have hot bubble-baths!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> don't have a tub, so it is a big novelty to take a big bubbly bathI would have taken one of them out, gently, nicely, held him in a
> and want for them to be able to do that. I personally feel the my
> in-laws are way over the top when it come to keeping their stuff
> perfect. So I agree with my kids. But it isn't our stuff. The
> kids wouldn't stop what they were doing, no matter how I asked
> them. It seemed at the time, the only way for me to resolve this
> situation was to become the type of mom I don't want to be. -=-
towel, maybe let half the water out so splashing didn't go so far,
while telling the other one to keep the water in the tub. Then
switch the boys out after a while so there was only one in the tub at
a time, but he still wasn't in the bathroom all alone.
If you don't have a tub, you could do what people did fifty years
ago (what some still do): Buy a #2 washtub, or a trough (Rubbermaid
makes plastic ones now), and fill it up with soapy water on a porch
or in a room without carpet, and let them have a bath there. It
might not work if you live in an apartment or a rental, but it's
worth considering.
And if you get a trough, you can have a hot tub (if you own a yard
with some outside area) with the addition of this:
http://www.cowboyhottubs.com/
Or you could have hot bubble-baths!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
THIS IS IMPORTANT, oh ye who tried to get unschooling too fast, and
told your kids "From now on you can do whatever you want to":
-=-But i think some people,in their journey to *get* unschooling and
put it
into practice, think it IS ok for their child to do just about
everything. They
believe if their child *wants* to do it, then they should go along
with it.
-=-There have been times in the past that I said nothing and held my
breath and
just waited for the visit to be over but never wanted them back.-=-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
It's a Very Bad Idea to "start unschooling" before you know what
you're doing. The more rules a family had, the more gradually and
sensibly they need to move toward saying yes.
The options, in an extreme and falsely dualistic way, are
A: to say "yes" hundreds of happy, surprising-to-the-kids times,
about whether they can stay up a little later, or have another
cookie, or visit the neighbors, or jump off the porch. Saying "YES!"
is a huge thrill to kids who have been told "no" thousands of times.
B: to say, to kids who have been told their whole lives that "NO"
was good for them and was the only thing between them and hell or
prison (or both), "Oh, I've changed my mind. Do whatever you want!"
A is months of fun, resulting in a growing mutual trust and joy
B is a frightening sense of "mom's gone crazy or doesn't love us
anymore," resulting in a frenzy of "rule breaking"--doing all the
things that were forbidden before as if there's no tomorrow, because
the kids figure that as far as the freedoms go, there is no tomorrow--
the restrictions may return at any moment, so they stay awake eating
and watching crummy TV shows for hours and HOURS because they've
never been able to make choices before and they're crap at it.
Parents have come to this list and others and said some subset of
this: "Okay, I told my kids we're unschooling now so there are no
rules. Tell me again what unschooling is. They're jumping around
like monkeys and going crazy and my husband wants to leave me and my
mom is calling the county. I told them lots of people do it and it
was perfectly legal. Now what am I supposed to do?"
Eeeek.
FIRST read and understand and have a realistic grasp of the
principles and start saying yes to your children for sensible and
good and generous reasons you understand. http://sandradodd.com/yes
Keep your kids off other people's furniture both during and after
your deschooling process.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
told your kids "From now on you can do whatever you want to":
-=-But i think some people,in their journey to *get* unschooling and
put it
into practice, think it IS ok for their child to do just about
everything. They
believe if their child *wants* to do it, then they should go along
with it.
-=-There have been times in the past that I said nothing and held my
breath and
just waited for the visit to be over but never wanted them back.-=-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
It's a Very Bad Idea to "start unschooling" before you know what
you're doing. The more rules a family had, the more gradually and
sensibly they need to move toward saying yes.
The options, in an extreme and falsely dualistic way, are
A: to say "yes" hundreds of happy, surprising-to-the-kids times,
about whether they can stay up a little later, or have another
cookie, or visit the neighbors, or jump off the porch. Saying "YES!"
is a huge thrill to kids who have been told "no" thousands of times.
B: to say, to kids who have been told their whole lives that "NO"
was good for them and was the only thing between them and hell or
prison (or both), "Oh, I've changed my mind. Do whatever you want!"
A is months of fun, resulting in a growing mutual trust and joy
B is a frightening sense of "mom's gone crazy or doesn't love us
anymore," resulting in a frenzy of "rule breaking"--doing all the
things that were forbidden before as if there's no tomorrow, because
the kids figure that as far as the freedoms go, there is no tomorrow--
the restrictions may return at any moment, so they stay awake eating
and watching crummy TV shows for hours and HOURS because they've
never been able to make choices before and they're crap at it.
Parents have come to this list and others and said some subset of
this: "Okay, I told my kids we're unschooling now so there are no
rules. Tell me again what unschooling is. They're jumping around
like monkeys and going crazy and my husband wants to leave me and my
mom is calling the county. I told them lots of people do it and it
was perfectly legal. Now what am I supposed to do?"
Eeeek.
FIRST read and understand and have a realistic grasp of the
principles and start saying yes to your children for sensible and
good and generous reasons you understand. http://sandradodd.com/yes
Keep your kids off other people's furniture both during and after
your deschooling process.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/24/2008 1:55:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
THIS IS IMPORTANT, oh ye who tried to get unschooling too fast, and
told your kids "From now on you can do whatever you want to":
It's a Very Bad Idea to "start unschooling" before you know what
you're doing. The more rules a family had, the more gradually and
sensibly they need to move toward saying yes.
****************************
Exactly.
And yet if a family wants to unschool asap, before they can truly, and
fully, put it into practice 100% *accurately* ( because let's face it, it does
take *time* to change ), I feel if they can say YES more and live with RESPECT
for all, then they are *on their way*.
But some people think saying YES means kids can do anything and everything,
but if they first look at it in terms of respect, they would be able to see
the difference.
~marcia
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
THIS IS IMPORTANT, oh ye who tried to get unschooling too fast, and
told your kids "From now on you can do whatever you want to":
It's a Very Bad Idea to "start unschooling" before you know what
you're doing. The more rules a family had, the more gradually and
sensibly they need to move toward saying yes.
****************************
Exactly.
And yet if a family wants to unschool asap, before they can truly, and
fully, put it into practice 100% *accurately* ( because let's face it, it does
take *time* to change ), I feel if they can say YES more and live with RESPECT
for all, then they are *on their way*.
But some people think saying YES means kids can do anything and everything,
but if they first look at it in terms of respect, they would be able to see
the difference.
~marcia
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Feb 24, 2008, at 4:19 AM, MarSi77@... wrote:
considerate of our stuff.
We live in Southern California and go barefoot a lot - there are times
we've gone to other people's houses and my kids played outdoors and
had dirty feet and I said, "Don't walk on the carpets, they look
really nice." Or I've snuck them off to the bathroom and washed their
feet. When we left someone's house "I" always helped to clean up and
usually just included the kids as I did that. I'd say, "Well, we're
going to need to get going in a few minutes so let's clean up a
little. Here, Roya, help me put all the blocks in that bucket, okay?"
Sometimes the kids helped, sometimes they didn't. Either way, they got
the idea that we at least offer to help, that became the "normal" way
to behave. Same with most other behaviors - if my child climbed up on
a coffee table at someone else's house, I'd swoop her up in my arms
and say, "Oooh, not on on their coffee table - here, let's do this,
instead...."
Putting chairs on their sides, in a public place, is usually not an
okay thing to do, I mean, you'd have to judge whether that really was
appropriate to be doing - but, assuming for the moment that it was
okay under the circumstances, if I saw the dad starting to turn the
chairs back upright, I'd quickly stop him, saying, "That's okay, I'm
letting her do that with the chairs."
If the child still has such an extreme reaction (and, believe me, I
have an INTENSE kid who had these kinds of reactions and I know how
quickly it can start and how extreme it can get), I would immediately
get the child off away from other people. I really think it is very
very rude to let someone have a major explosion right in the midst of
others engaged in their own activities. For the sake of the child and
the other people - move the child to a more private spot. Just that
often is enough to help them calm down and think about the situation.
Being in front of other people creates added pressures and heightens
panic and stress.
Then, the important thing is not how the dad felt about it - I mean,
maybe he should be apologizing, too, for putting up the chairs without
even bothering to notice that they were being purposely put that way.
But what is important is that the child, over time, learn better ways
to deal with frustration, obstacles, annoyances, and so on. So, next
time, the parent sees the child doing something that others might
object to or might interfere with, the parent can help the child be
prepared -- say: "If you put the chairs down on their sides, some
grown-ups or even other kids might think they're are being helpful by
putting them back upright. You can just say that you want them like
this." Or, "Some adults might not like you doing this, so if they say
or do anything to you about it, you can just come get me and I'll talk
to them for you, if you want."
And, you, the parent, then have to be on the look-out for situations
that might bring about these kinds of explosions....head them off by
preparing the child with some options of how to respond in case.
After a while, the child will have a sort of tool box filled with
options and won't need you to offer the tools every time. That'll
happen over YEARS, though.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But what about a situation where you can't move something?There are people we don't invite to our house because they're not
> Like the couch. I know it's fun to jump on couches, but the fact
> is ,I don't
> *want* other kids jumping on our couch when they are at our house.
> My kids
> even get annoyed when they see it, but yet wouldn't say anything
> <<G>>.
considerate of our stuff.
We live in Southern California and go barefoot a lot - there are times
we've gone to other people's houses and my kids played outdoors and
had dirty feet and I said, "Don't walk on the carpets, they look
really nice." Or I've snuck them off to the bathroom and washed their
feet. When we left someone's house "I" always helped to clean up and
usually just included the kids as I did that. I'd say, "Well, we're
going to need to get going in a few minutes so let's clean up a
little. Here, Roya, help me put all the blocks in that bucket, okay?"
Sometimes the kids helped, sometimes they didn't. Either way, they got
the idea that we at least offer to help, that became the "normal" way
to behave. Same with most other behaviors - if my child climbed up on
a coffee table at someone else's house, I'd swoop her up in my arms
and say, "Oooh, not on on their coffee table - here, let's do this,
instead...."
Putting chairs on their sides, in a public place, is usually not an
okay thing to do, I mean, you'd have to judge whether that really was
appropriate to be doing - but, assuming for the moment that it was
okay under the circumstances, if I saw the dad starting to turn the
chairs back upright, I'd quickly stop him, saying, "That's okay, I'm
letting her do that with the chairs."
If the child still has such an extreme reaction (and, believe me, I
have an INTENSE kid who had these kinds of reactions and I know how
quickly it can start and how extreme it can get), I would immediately
get the child off away from other people. I really think it is very
very rude to let someone have a major explosion right in the midst of
others engaged in their own activities. For the sake of the child and
the other people - move the child to a more private spot. Just that
often is enough to help them calm down and think about the situation.
Being in front of other people creates added pressures and heightens
panic and stress.
Then, the important thing is not how the dad felt about it - I mean,
maybe he should be apologizing, too, for putting up the chairs without
even bothering to notice that they were being purposely put that way.
But what is important is that the child, over time, learn better ways
to deal with frustration, obstacles, annoyances, and so on. So, next
time, the parent sees the child doing something that others might
object to or might interfere with, the parent can help the child be
prepared -- say: "If you put the chairs down on their sides, some
grown-ups or even other kids might think they're are being helpful by
putting them back upright. You can just say that you want them like
this." Or, "Some adults might not like you doing this, so if they say
or do anything to you about it, you can just come get me and I'll talk
to them for you, if you want."
And, you, the parent, then have to be on the look-out for situations
that might bring about these kinds of explosions....head them off by
preparing the child with some options of how to respond in case.
After a while, the child will have a sort of tool box filled with
options and won't need you to offer the tools every time. That'll
happen over YEARS, though.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Putting chairs on their sides, in a public place, is usually not an
okay thing to do,-=-
I'm always surprised when people will let kids do things in public
places that they wouldn't let them do at home.
Marty made a big fort out of a huge tarp. After they camped last
week, the tents were damp, and Keith and Marty were laying a
different out out every day, in our library, draped over chairs and
the couch, to get dry. They weren't *wet,* and it's New Mexico, and
it was just to keep them from smelly funky later.
One is just a big striped tarp, bigger than the room. For fun, Marty
made a big fort out of it--set a card table under one edge as a door,
and had chairs (wooden chairs with leather seats) holding the tarp
up in various places. He and Holly invited me in. There was room in
there for half a dozen people. I suggested using a stool to make
the center taller, so Holly got a light wood-and-raffia barstool and
set it up on a chair in the middle. It wasn't going to hurt the chair.
Over the next couple of days, other friends of theirs came over and
went in there. It was really fun.
Last night two of Marty's friends helped him fold it up and put it
all away.
Making forts with sheets is fun. This was BIG fun.
But still, if a visitor came and started doing things with and do my
furniture that made me nervous, I wouldn't like it. And I have some
chairs that would be fine to turn on their sides, but some that
wouldn't be.
(I"m just rambling, but it's more to think about.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
okay thing to do,-=-
I'm always surprised when people will let kids do things in public
places that they wouldn't let them do at home.
Marty made a big fort out of a huge tarp. After they camped last
week, the tents were damp, and Keith and Marty were laying a
different out out every day, in our library, draped over chairs and
the couch, to get dry. They weren't *wet,* and it's New Mexico, and
it was just to keep them from smelly funky later.
One is just a big striped tarp, bigger than the room. For fun, Marty
made a big fort out of it--set a card table under one edge as a door,
and had chairs (wooden chairs with leather seats) holding the tarp
up in various places. He and Holly invited me in. There was room in
there for half a dozen people. I suggested using a stool to make
the center taller, so Holly got a light wood-and-raffia barstool and
set it up on a chair in the middle. It wasn't going to hurt the chair.
Over the next couple of days, other friends of theirs came over and
went in there. It was really fun.
Last night two of Marty's friends helped him fold it up and put it
all away.
Making forts with sheets is fun. This was BIG fun.
But still, if a visitor came and started doing things with and do my
furniture that made me nervous, I wouldn't like it. And I have some
chairs that would be fine to turn on their sides, but some that
wouldn't be.
(I"m just rambling, but it's more to think about.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lara Miller
Sorry for not trimming but I am on my cell. We were in a rec hall at
an rv park and it was big and had folding tables and a slew of plastic
patio chairs. We were the only ones in there. No one to bother and I
really didn't think any harm could come from making her fort. Still
struggling with where to draw the line though. Lately we have been in
warmer climates but that means staying at rv parks with a bunch of
seniors whom are generally very nice but some are just plain rude and
grouchy! Like the ones who fussed at my boys for splashing them while
they were swimming. Boys were just swimming and just normal splashing
associated with it and the seniors were IN the pool! Not sure where I
am going with that but I guess I am just hyper sensitive lately about
whether their behavior is appropriate or not. But mostly how to
properly convey to them what needs to happen.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently just outside of Mobile, Alabama!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
an rv park and it was big and had folding tables and a slew of plastic
patio chairs. We were the only ones in there. No one to bother and I
really didn't think any harm could come from making her fort. Still
struggling with where to draw the line though. Lately we have been in
warmer climates but that means staying at rv parks with a bunch of
seniors whom are generally very nice but some are just plain rude and
grouchy! Like the ones who fussed at my boys for splashing them while
they were swimming. Boys were just swimming and just normal splashing
associated with it and the seniors were IN the pool! Not sure where I
am going with that but I guess I am just hyper sensitive lately about
whether their behavior is appropriate or not. But mostly how to
properly convey to them what needs to happen.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently just outside of Mobile, Alabama!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Feb 24, 2008, at 5:50 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-Putting chairs on their sides, in a public place, is usually not an
> okay thing to do,-=-
>
> I'm always surprised when people will let kids do things in public
> places that they wouldn't let them do at home.
>
> Marty made a big fort out of a huge tarp. After they camped last
> week, the tents were damp, and Keith and Marty were laying a
> different out out every day, in our library, draped over chairs and
> the couch, to get dry. They weren't *wet,* and it's New Mexico, and
> it was just to keep them from smelly funky later.
>
> One is just a big striped tarp, bigger than the room. For fun, Marty
> made a big fort out of it--set a card table under one edge as a door,
> and had chairs (wooden chairs with leather seats) holding the tarp
> up in various places. He and Holly invited me in. There was room in
> there for half a dozen people. I suggested using a stool to make
> the center taller, so Holly got a light wood-and-raffia barstool and
> set it up on a chair in the middle. It wasn't going to hurt the chair.
>
> Over the next couple of days, other friends of theirs came over and
> went in there. It was really fun.
>
> Last night two of Marty's friends helped him fold it up and put it
> all away.
>
> Making forts with sheets is fun. This was BIG fun.
>
> But still, if a visitor came and started doing things with and do my
> furniture that made me nervous, I wouldn't like it. And I have some
> chairs that would be fine to turn on their sides, but some that
> wouldn't be.
>
> (I"m just rambling, but it's more to think about.)
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Varela
I have been enjoying reading this entire discussion. I cringe, because I
think there have been times when I've been this mom.
My kids are not wild and generally do not destroy things. We are pretty
laid back, calm people. However, I know there were times when I've gone
into other people's houses and I'd have no idea what the kids could and
couldn't touch. Whenever I ask, I've had most people say "oh the kids will
be fine, they can touch whatever they like". I just don't know when it's
"too far", though. At our home children are allowed to jump on the couch
and beds. They are allowed to climb on furniture. My 3yo ds loves to touch
things and see how they work. He'll walk around touching everything that
looks interesting to him and push buttons, roll, poke, examine it all.
Sometimes it's OK and sometimes it's not. It gets confusing for me, for
instance, when my aunt has a guitar in the corner (I thought of this
story when you mentioned your guitar, Sandra) and my then 2yo goes for it.
I look at her because she is a person who has said that the kids can play
with "anything". She said it was OK, so, we sit him on the couch and he
gently strums, when he gets rough I tell him to be gentle. Well, we didn't
see it, but, he turned the knobs on the side and now it needs tuned. So,
now I just tell them to leave the guitar alone because my aunt got kind of
irritated about that.
When the kids were younger (they are 3 and 6 now) this was way more of an
issue for us. We spent a lot of time not going to certain places and
certain people's houses. I can still remember clearly trying to console my
sensitive dd while my little ds (around 1-2) would run off touching as many
things as he could. I had to pick and choose very carefully where we'd
spent our time because it was a difficult period for me. Still now, there
are some places we don't go very often. I took the kids to the museum the
other day after not being there for almost a year because my ds kept running
and bumping into things. Not good in a museum..! Our visit was much better
this time, but, we had to skip some things my dd was interested in because
ds wasn't interested and walked off. Thankfully we have a membership (it's
a combined one with the science center, which they both love) and I can take
her alone one day.
I am learning along with them about these things. I grew up isolated with
just my mom who didn't speak to me very often. We didn't visit people. By
the time I went to school, I was extremely shy and afraid of everyone. It
has taken me a long time just to learn the basics and I still, sometimes,
stick my foot in my mouth or do something that "normal" people wouldn't do.
I know obvious things (expensive, rare or delicate looking items) that my
children shouldn't play with or do, but, I have a hard time knowing the
rules of the house, since everyone's are so different. I usually let people
know ahead of time that while my children are well behaved, they are young,
so, let me know if there's anything you want them to stay away from.
I'm also curious as to how people have handled these situations at
other people's houses. I see here a lot of you frown on climbing on
furniture and touching certain things. When my ds was young and loved to
climb, after a few times of basically saying "they don't want you to touch
that/climb on there, get down" (basically saying No!) or redirecting, it
would get really frustrating for a small child. So, we'd just leave (which
I'm sure relieved the other person!). .
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think there have been times when I've been this mom.
My kids are not wild and generally do not destroy things. We are pretty
laid back, calm people. However, I know there were times when I've gone
into other people's houses and I'd have no idea what the kids could and
couldn't touch. Whenever I ask, I've had most people say "oh the kids will
be fine, they can touch whatever they like". I just don't know when it's
"too far", though. At our home children are allowed to jump on the couch
and beds. They are allowed to climb on furniture. My 3yo ds loves to touch
things and see how they work. He'll walk around touching everything that
looks interesting to him and push buttons, roll, poke, examine it all.
Sometimes it's OK and sometimes it's not. It gets confusing for me, for
instance, when my aunt has a guitar in the corner (I thought of this
story when you mentioned your guitar, Sandra) and my then 2yo goes for it.
I look at her because she is a person who has said that the kids can play
with "anything". She said it was OK, so, we sit him on the couch and he
gently strums, when he gets rough I tell him to be gentle. Well, we didn't
see it, but, he turned the knobs on the side and now it needs tuned. So,
now I just tell them to leave the guitar alone because my aunt got kind of
irritated about that.
When the kids were younger (they are 3 and 6 now) this was way more of an
issue for us. We spent a lot of time not going to certain places and
certain people's houses. I can still remember clearly trying to console my
sensitive dd while my little ds (around 1-2) would run off touching as many
things as he could. I had to pick and choose very carefully where we'd
spent our time because it was a difficult period for me. Still now, there
are some places we don't go very often. I took the kids to the museum the
other day after not being there for almost a year because my ds kept running
and bumping into things. Not good in a museum..! Our visit was much better
this time, but, we had to skip some things my dd was interested in because
ds wasn't interested and walked off. Thankfully we have a membership (it's
a combined one with the science center, which they both love) and I can take
her alone one day.
I am learning along with them about these things. I grew up isolated with
just my mom who didn't speak to me very often. We didn't visit people. By
the time I went to school, I was extremely shy and afraid of everyone. It
has taken me a long time just to learn the basics and I still, sometimes,
stick my foot in my mouth or do something that "normal" people wouldn't do.
I know obvious things (expensive, rare or delicate looking items) that my
children shouldn't play with or do, but, I have a hard time knowing the
rules of the house, since everyone's are so different. I usually let people
know ahead of time that while my children are well behaved, they are young,
so, let me know if there's anything you want them to stay away from.
I'm also curious as to how people have handled these situations at
other people's houses. I see here a lot of you frown on climbing on
furniture and touching certain things. When my ds was young and loved to
climb, after a few times of basically saying "they don't want you to touch
that/climb on there, get down" (basically saying No!) or redirecting, it
would get really frustrating for a small child. So, we'd just leave (which
I'm sure relieved the other person!). .
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Varela
I just thought of something else that probably confused me. I remember
reading in AP books and on the lists I belonged to back then about allowing
your toddler to explore and touch things. I can remember them talking about
letting the child touch and feel and examine to learn about things. Of
course looking back, they probably meant with that person's permission, or
in your own home.
I have another example. We briefly belonged to a small playgroup that was
held at the library. It was a conference room with tables and chairs that
we moved to the side for our group. There were also some appliances (tv,
vcr up on this little stage area) in there. The lady who started the group
said that the guy she spoke with about using the library space said that the
kids were free to use anything in the room and do whatever they wanted. So,
of course, my little DS, who loves to work with his hands, liked to examine
the equipment. He was also at an age when he loved stairs, so the stage was
awesome to him. I stayed right by him and made sure he was gentle and
careful, not breaking anything. A few times my dd would get upset and I'd
have to console her, so, it was difficult to help him explore during those
moments. Anyway, another woman who worked at the library came in one day
and saw the children on the stage and said that we were not allowed on the
stage. From that point on, the class was pure hell because that's all my ds
could think about anymore once it was taken away from him. He was somewhere
between 18months and 2yrs, so, we stopped going there. It was no fun.
Should I have never allowed him up there to explore, do you think? Was it
OK, since it was originally "allowed" and I was right there to help him?
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
reading in AP books and on the lists I belonged to back then about allowing
your toddler to explore and touch things. I can remember them talking about
letting the child touch and feel and examine to learn about things. Of
course looking back, they probably meant with that person's permission, or
in your own home.
I have another example. We briefly belonged to a small playgroup that was
held at the library. It was a conference room with tables and chairs that
we moved to the side for our group. There were also some appliances (tv,
vcr up on this little stage area) in there. The lady who started the group
said that the guy she spoke with about using the library space said that the
kids were free to use anything in the room and do whatever they wanted. So,
of course, my little DS, who loves to work with his hands, liked to examine
the equipment. He was also at an age when he loved stairs, so the stage was
awesome to him. I stayed right by him and made sure he was gentle and
careful, not breaking anything. A few times my dd would get upset and I'd
have to console her, so, it was difficult to help him explore during those
moments. Anyway, another woman who worked at the library came in one day
and saw the children on the stage and said that we were not allowed on the
stage. From that point on, the class was pure hell because that's all my ds
could think about anymore once it was taken away from him. He was somewhere
between 18months and 2yrs, so, we stopped going there. It was no fun.
Should I have never allowed him up there to explore, do you think? Was it
OK, since it was originally "allowed" and I was right there to help him?
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-She said it was OK, so, we sit him on the couch and he
gently strums, when he gets rough I tell him to be gentle. Well, we
didn't
see it, but, he turned the knobs on the side and now it needs tuned. So,
now I just tell them to leave the guitar alone because my aunt got
kind of
irritated about that.-=-
I would set a kid up with a guitar to play on the carpet or on a bed,
sure, and I can tune my own guitar so that wouldn't be a problem.
It's not that I wouldn't want a child to touch my guitar, but I would
hope his mom was not saying "Sure, go all 'El KaBong' with it, you
little sweetie."
-=-When my ds was young and loved to
climb, after a few times of basically saying "they don't want you to
touch
that/climb on there, get down" (basically saying No!) or redirecting, it
would get really frustrating for a small child. So, we'd just leave
(which
I'm sure relieved the other person!)-=-
City parks are wonderful here, because kids can climb and run and
swing and the moms can sit and talk.
We have Explora in Albuquerque, which is all kid-touchable, too.
Usually when littler kids are coming over here we set out a few
things they can play with and find some good easy video games and
movies before they show up so we can make a few offers to entertain
them. Some families don't think of that, though.
We have lots of furniture kids can climb on and jump on, and we've
never owned a couch that wasn't used. We let the cats sharpen their
claws on the one downstairs, and the dog sleeps on the one upstairs.
But when someone does have a nice couch and no pets and no kids,
that's not for kids or cats or my dog! <g>
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gently strums, when he gets rough I tell him to be gentle. Well, we
didn't
see it, but, he turned the knobs on the side and now it needs tuned. So,
now I just tell them to leave the guitar alone because my aunt got
kind of
irritated about that.-=-
I would set a kid up with a guitar to play on the carpet or on a bed,
sure, and I can tune my own guitar so that wouldn't be a problem.
It's not that I wouldn't want a child to touch my guitar, but I would
hope his mom was not saying "Sure, go all 'El KaBong' with it, you
little sweetie."
-=-When my ds was young and loved to
climb, after a few times of basically saying "they don't want you to
touch
that/climb on there, get down" (basically saying No!) or redirecting, it
would get really frustrating for a small child. So, we'd just leave
(which
I'm sure relieved the other person!)-=-
City parks are wonderful here, because kids can climb and run and
swing and the moms can sit and talk.
We have Explora in Albuquerque, which is all kid-touchable, too.
Usually when littler kids are coming over here we set out a few
things they can play with and find some good easy video games and
movies before they show up so we can make a few offers to entertain
them. Some families don't think of that, though.
We have lots of furniture kids can climb on and jump on, and we've
never owned a couch that wasn't used. We let the cats sharpen their
claws on the one downstairs, and the dog sleeps on the one upstairs.
But when someone does have a nice couch and no pets and no kids,
that's not for kids or cats or my dog! <g>
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
Hi--
As for the splashy bath question I just have to chime in that we bought a small water
trough/rubber tub thing and it ended up in some of the happiest hours of my childrens'
young lives, because it was outside on the deck. There were no worries about anything--
everything just hosed down. We would make bubble baths and just add hot water when it
needed refreshing. My daughter would take 1 1/2 hour baths just playing with toys and
bubbles and enjoying the scenery and being outside. She would get in and out and just loved
the freedom. It was also great for playdates, outdoor painting, playing with flour (before the
tub), playing in the mud, etc.
The other suggestion I have is an occasional night at an inexpensive motel--especially
during the summer if you have one with a pool. They are usually designed for lots of
splashing, and my kids love the mystique of a new bathroom!
Good luck, Joanna
As for the splashy bath question I just have to chime in that we bought a small water
trough/rubber tub thing and it ended up in some of the happiest hours of my childrens'
young lives, because it was outside on the deck. There were no worries about anything--
everything just hosed down. We would make bubble baths and just add hot water when it
needed refreshing. My daughter would take 1 1/2 hour baths just playing with toys and
bubbles and enjoying the scenery and being outside. She would get in and out and just loved
the freedom. It was also great for playdates, outdoor painting, playing with flour (before the
tub), playing in the mud, etc.
The other suggestion I have is an occasional night at an inexpensive motel--especially
during the summer if you have one with a pool. They are usually designed for lots of
splashing, and my kids love the mystique of a new bathroom!
Good luck, Joanna
Sandra Dodd
-=I just thought of something else that probably confused me. I remember
reading in AP books and on the lists I belonged to back then about
allowing
your toddler to explore and touch things. I can remember them talking
about
letting the child touch and feel and examine to learn about things. Of
course looking back, they probably meant with that person's
permission, or
in your own home.-=-
I think they mean not to do what many families have done for years,
which is to leave breakable valuables down and reachable, but slap
the child's hands if they reach for them.
I don't think they meant to let a baby loose in Hallmark or a San
Francisco Music Box store. <g>
-=- another woman who worked at the library came in one day
and saw the children on the stage and said that we were not allowed
on the
stage. From that point on, the class was pure hell because that's all
my ds
could think about anymore once it was taken away from him. He was
somewhere
between 18months and 2yrs, so, we stopped going there. It was no fun.
Should I have never allowed him up there to explore, do you think?
Was it
OK, since it was originally "allowed" and I was right there to help
him?-=-
I would've asked someone with the authority to clarify whether or not
it was okay. I'd say that two people had said two different things
and you needed clearer guidelines about the room use.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
reading in AP books and on the lists I belonged to back then about
allowing
your toddler to explore and touch things. I can remember them talking
about
letting the child touch and feel and examine to learn about things. Of
course looking back, they probably meant with that person's
permission, or
in your own home.-=-
I think they mean not to do what many families have done for years,
which is to leave breakable valuables down and reachable, but slap
the child's hands if they reach for them.
I don't think they meant to let a baby loose in Hallmark or a San
Francisco Music Box store. <g>
-=- another woman who worked at the library came in one day
and saw the children on the stage and said that we were not allowed
on the
stage. From that point on, the class was pure hell because that's all
my ds
could think about anymore once it was taken away from him. He was
somewhere
between 18months and 2yrs, so, we stopped going there. It was no fun.
Should I have never allowed him up there to explore, do you think?
Was it
OK, since it was originally "allowed" and I was right there to help
him?-=-
I would've asked someone with the authority to clarify whether or not
it was okay. I'd say that two people had said two different things
and you needed clearer guidelines about the room use.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
splashing each other is ok but splashing others even if inthe pool
is NOT. Acidental spray is one thing but I hate it when kids think I
want to be splashed just because I am in the pool. Or for that
matter my girls do not like random kids splashing them when they are
not in the game.
Julie
Lately we have been in
is NOT. Acidental spray is one thing but I hate it when kids think I
want to be splashed just because I am in the pool. Or for that
matter my girls do not like random kids splashing them when they are
not in the game.
Julie
Lately we have been in
> warmer climates but that means staying at rv parks with a bunchof
> seniors whom are generally very nice but some are just plain rudeand
> grouchy! Like the ones who fussed at my boys for splashing themwhile
> they were swimming. Boys were just swimming and just normalsplashing
> associated with it and the seniors were IN the pool! Not surewhere I
> am going with that but I guess I am just hyper sensitive latelyabout
> whether their behavior is appropriate or not. But mostly how to
> properly convey to them what needs to happen.
> Blessings,
> Lara Miller
> Currently just outside of Mobile, Alabama!
> http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
>
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<<> splashing each other is ok but splashing others even if inthe pool
at different times, "It's only a game (or fun) if everyone is playing."
Sometime kids like being splashed.
This reminded me of a time at a small hotel pool where Jayn and a stranger,
a boy very slightly older and certainly about the same size, started up a
splashing game. Jayn *loves* to be splashed, and will say so and also say if
it is too much. She was also clearly a competent swimmer by then.
However the boy's Mom decided that he wasn't being a gentleman and started
shouting at him, from her seat nearby me, loud and with that warning tone in
her voice that I'm sure we are all familiar with, to stop splashing and
added some reason that was an assumption about Jayn's enjoyment (I don't
remember the exact words, just the sense). With the intention of being
reassuring, I said to the mom something like (my best recollection) "Oh my
daughter likes being splashed. She's enjoying it." The mom made some
non-committal noise, and within a minute shouted at her son again the threat
that if he splashed the "little girl" he would have to get out. I seem to
remember her saying something about "violent play" which was clearly a dig
both at her son and at Jayn.
At this point I got up and went over to Jayn and said, and this I do
remember, "This boy gets into trouble if he splashes, so will you please not
splash him." She was a bit sad I think, and they very quickly stopped
playing together at all.
Soon Jayn got out to do some other playing, since she had some other friends
at the pool. They started playing a game in the garden instead, and had left
a pile of Barbies on the ground nearby. I saw the little boy get out of the
pool and walk to the jacuzzi. I saw him go significantly out of his way to
make sure that he walked over the dolls and dripped water over them.
The dolls weren't actually hurt by this - it was probably only a matter of
time before they might be in the pool too - but I felt very sad for the boy.
I am guessing he felt resentful, powerless, embarrassed, misunderstood.
Luckily his mom didn't see this little act of sabotage, and I wasn't going
to tell her about it.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
> is NOT. Acidental spray is one thing but I hate it when kids think II agree that no-one should be splashed who doesn't want to be. I have said
> want to be splashed just because I am in the pool. Or for that
> matter my girls do not like random kids splashing them when they are
> not in the game. >>>
at different times, "It's only a game (or fun) if everyone is playing."
Sometime kids like being splashed.
This reminded me of a time at a small hotel pool where Jayn and a stranger,
a boy very slightly older and certainly about the same size, started up a
splashing game. Jayn *loves* to be splashed, and will say so and also say if
it is too much. She was also clearly a competent swimmer by then.
However the boy's Mom decided that he wasn't being a gentleman and started
shouting at him, from her seat nearby me, loud and with that warning tone in
her voice that I'm sure we are all familiar with, to stop splashing and
added some reason that was an assumption about Jayn's enjoyment (I don't
remember the exact words, just the sense). With the intention of being
reassuring, I said to the mom something like (my best recollection) "Oh my
daughter likes being splashed. She's enjoying it." The mom made some
non-committal noise, and within a minute shouted at her son again the threat
that if he splashed the "little girl" he would have to get out. I seem to
remember her saying something about "violent play" which was clearly a dig
both at her son and at Jayn.
At this point I got up and went over to Jayn and said, and this I do
remember, "This boy gets into trouble if he splashes, so will you please not
splash him." She was a bit sad I think, and they very quickly stopped
playing together at all.
Soon Jayn got out to do some other playing, since she had some other friends
at the pool. They started playing a game in the garden instead, and had left
a pile of Barbies on the ground nearby. I saw the little boy get out of the
pool and walk to the jacuzzi. I saw him go significantly out of his way to
make sure that he walked over the dolls and dripped water over them.
The dolls weren't actually hurt by this - it was probably only a matter of
time before they might be in the pool too - but I felt very sad for the boy.
I am guessing he felt resentful, powerless, embarrassed, misunderstood.
Luckily his mom didn't see this little act of sabotage, and I wasn't going
to tell her about it.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Lara Miller
No, all the splasing was accidental. They were by no means
purposefully splashing these people. But it was a pool and in a pool
there is water which is wet. I can't seem to fond the right words or
examples to express myself properly.
Let me try again. I find myself in situations where I think I might
be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my children
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently on our way to Phoenix!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Feb 25, 2008, at 6:30 PM, wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...>
wrote:
purposefully splashing these people. But it was a pool and in a pool
there is water which is wet. I can't seem to fond the right words or
examples to express myself properly.
Let me try again. I find myself in situations where I think I might
be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my children
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently on our way to Phoenix!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Feb 25, 2008, at 6:30 PM, wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...>
wrote:
> splashing each other is ok but splashing others even if inthe pool[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> is NOT. Acidental spray is one thing but I hate it when kids think I
> want to be splashed just because I am in the pool. Or for that
> matter my girls do not like random kids splashing them when they are
> not in the game.
>
> Julie
>
> >
>
>
>
Lara Miller
Sorry. Hit send by accident. And secondly when they are doing
something completely inapropriate how to handle it and get their
attention and for lack of a better word: compliance while not crossing
the line? Sorry if this is choppy- I can't stand typing on a cell but
it is all I have at the moment.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently on our way to Phoenix!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
something completely inapropriate how to handle it and get their
attention and for lack of a better word: compliance while not crossing
the line? Sorry if this is choppy- I can't stand typing on a cell but
it is all I have at the moment.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently on our way to Phoenix!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Feb 25, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Lara Miller <birthmamma@...> wrote:
> No, all the splasing was accidental. They were by no means
> purposefully splashing these people. But it was a pool and in a pool
> there is water which is wet. I can't seem to fond the right words or
> examples to express myself properly.
>
> Let me try again. I find myself in situations where I think I might
> be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my
> children
>
> Blessings,
> Lara Miller
> Currently on our way to Phoenix!
> http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
>
> On Feb 25, 2008, at 6:30 PM, wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...>
> wrote:
>
> > splashing each other is ok but splashing others even if inthe pool
> > is NOT. Acidental spray is one thing but I hate it when kids think I
> > want to be splashed just because I am in the pool. Or for that
> > matter my girls do not like random kids splashing them when they are
> > not in the game.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Feb 25, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Lara Miller wrote:
the Home Education Network of Arizona conference in Tempe (near
Phoenix) this weekend (March 1 and 2).
<hena.us/conference>
-Pam Sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Lara MillerHey - speaking of Phoenix.... Sandra and I will both be speaking at
> Currently on our way to Phoenix!
> http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
the Home Education Network of Arizona conference in Tempe (near
Phoenix) this weekend (March 1 and 2).
<hena.us/conference>
-Pam Sorooshian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Let me try again. I find myself in situations where I think I might
be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my
children-=-
There are times when that's appropriate.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my
children-=-
There are times when that's appropriate.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lara Miller
That's why my sig line say "on our way to phoenix"! Will be there
with the whole family so let me know if you would like to wrestle with
the boys! Hope to meet both of you in person.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently on our way to Phoenix!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Feb 25, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
wrote:
with the whole family so let me know if you would like to wrestle with
the boys! Hope to meet both of you in person.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently on our way to Phoenix!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Feb 25, 2008, at 8:30 PM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> On Feb 25, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Lara Miller wrote:
>
> > Lara Miller
> > Currently on our way to Phoenix!
> > http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
>
> Hey - speaking of Phoenix.... Sandra and I will both be speaking at
> the Home Education Network of Arizona conference in Tempe (near
> Phoenix) this weekend (March 1 and 2).
>
> <hena.us/conference>
>
> -Pam Sorooshian
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[email protected]
HI Lara and all -
"Let me try again. I find myself in situations where I think I might
be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my children
And secondly when they are doing
something completely inapropriate how to handle it and get their
attention and for lack of a better word: compliance while not crossing
the line? "
Although I haven't read all the responses to your post, I went back and read the first one and have some ideas... take them or leave them.... perhaps they've been said already...
I don't know if this would be 'better' but it's an alternative if you could/would go back in time... : )
When you went to talk to your daughter when she was very upset and you told her that her behavior was inappropriate, an alternative would have been to 'be there for her'. Perhaps she was embarrassed about her behavior. Perhaps her emotions were still stirred up and she was still 'in the story' of 'he messed my game up on purpose'.... Another idea would have been to say, "I can see you're very upset right now. You were doing something and now it has been changed. How can I help you?" Perhaps listening... .perhaps she'd preferred to be ignored so as not to draw attention to her.... If she can't apologize that day, imo, it would have been okay for her to contact him or apologize to him next time she saw him.... (I know I've treated people poorly when in upset and just couldn't muster up the ego to admit it immediately.... )
You asked, "how do you handle when your child is rude?" In theory, I ask what's going on for my child.
Unrelated story.... when my son was 4-5yo, he would hit a lot... it was very frustrating and embarrassing for me... esp since he was a big kid..... after a long time, I figured out that he hit when he was hungry... so I got to the point of, if I missed out on noticing his hunger or feeding him regularly, that when he hit, I said, "let's go eat' (nobody was EVER hurt)... one day, I asked him what it was like when he hit and he told me through his tears that he hated it... that he got made at himself whenever he hit someone... that he felt sad when his friend was hurt.. .that he did not want to hit but it was 'an accident'....
My 'take home message' from that conversation was that I did not want to contribute to his self-criticism.... he was 'beating himself up' already after he hit someone.... I did not want to contribute to that.... so I became more 'solution' focused.. let's eat.... how do you want to handle this now that an 'oopsy' has happened.... I called his outbursts 'oopsies'..... bec. that's what it was... it was not 'intentional' to hurt someone... it just happens sometimes.... I know that to be true bec. I have oopsies, too... I don't mean to be mean to my kids but sometimes, I'm feeling badly about something and I say something mean to them.... I apologize and say it's an oopsy... not part of my intention of how to be with them....
Perhaps related or not, my son stopped hitting after that.... could have been a developmental thing... who knows... but being with him in that way was valuable to me.... to get away from right and wrong... and the experience of compassion towards him felt better in me than the feelings of anger/embarrassment....
Anyway, my kids are calling from the stable to be picked up so I can't write much more now....
I also have an opinion about public spaces and who gets to decide how the chairs are used... I'm big on communication and working things out.... I'm not big on assuming that people would have a problem with what kids/people choose to do.... So, aside from being 'really annoying' (to be personally defined : ), I'd check in with people about whether they are okay with the play and let them be responsible for speaking up.... I've been places where I shushed my kids and heard back 'we love the playful noises'..... so, watch what you assume, imo... and, imo, children can ask about jumping on furniture and be willing to hear no or an alternative....
Off I go....
Jane
(who will send this without re-reading/editing! Oh my!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Let me try again. I find myself in situations where I think I might
be putting the wants/desires/opinions of other people before my children
And secondly when they are doing
something completely inapropriate how to handle it and get their
attention and for lack of a better word: compliance while not crossing
the line? "
Although I haven't read all the responses to your post, I went back and read the first one and have some ideas... take them or leave them.... perhaps they've been said already...
I don't know if this would be 'better' but it's an alternative if you could/would go back in time... : )
When you went to talk to your daughter when she was very upset and you told her that her behavior was inappropriate, an alternative would have been to 'be there for her'. Perhaps she was embarrassed about her behavior. Perhaps her emotions were still stirred up and she was still 'in the story' of 'he messed my game up on purpose'.... Another idea would have been to say, "I can see you're very upset right now. You were doing something and now it has been changed. How can I help you?" Perhaps listening... .perhaps she'd preferred to be ignored so as not to draw attention to her.... If she can't apologize that day, imo, it would have been okay for her to contact him or apologize to him next time she saw him.... (I know I've treated people poorly when in upset and just couldn't muster up the ego to admit it immediately.... )
You asked, "how do you handle when your child is rude?" In theory, I ask what's going on for my child.
Unrelated story.... when my son was 4-5yo, he would hit a lot... it was very frustrating and embarrassing for me... esp since he was a big kid..... after a long time, I figured out that he hit when he was hungry... so I got to the point of, if I missed out on noticing his hunger or feeding him regularly, that when he hit, I said, "let's go eat' (nobody was EVER hurt)... one day, I asked him what it was like when he hit and he told me through his tears that he hated it... that he got made at himself whenever he hit someone... that he felt sad when his friend was hurt.. .that he did not want to hit but it was 'an accident'....
My 'take home message' from that conversation was that I did not want to contribute to his self-criticism.... he was 'beating himself up' already after he hit someone.... I did not want to contribute to that.... so I became more 'solution' focused.. let's eat.... how do you want to handle this now that an 'oopsy' has happened.... I called his outbursts 'oopsies'..... bec. that's what it was... it was not 'intentional' to hurt someone... it just happens sometimes.... I know that to be true bec. I have oopsies, too... I don't mean to be mean to my kids but sometimes, I'm feeling badly about something and I say something mean to them.... I apologize and say it's an oopsy... not part of my intention of how to be with them....
Perhaps related or not, my son stopped hitting after that.... could have been a developmental thing... who knows... but being with him in that way was valuable to me.... to get away from right and wrong... and the experience of compassion towards him felt better in me than the feelings of anger/embarrassment....
Anyway, my kids are calling from the stable to be picked up so I can't write much more now....
I also have an opinion about public spaces and who gets to decide how the chairs are used... I'm big on communication and working things out.... I'm not big on assuming that people would have a problem with what kids/people choose to do.... So, aside from being 'really annoying' (to be personally defined : ), I'd check in with people about whether they are okay with the play and let them be responsible for speaking up.... I've been places where I shushed my kids and heard back 'we love the playful noises'..... so, watch what you assume, imo... and, imo, children can ask about jumping on furniture and be willing to hear no or an alternative....
Off I go....
Jane
(who will send this without re-reading/editing! Oh my!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Another idea would have been to say, "I can see you're very upset
right now. You were doing something and now it has been changed. How
can I help you?" -=-
If I were frustrated and my husband came in and said "I can see
you're very upset right now. You were doing something and now it has
been changed. How can I help you?" it would make everything twice as
bad.
If he came in and said "Can I help?" it would make things better,
even if all I said was "No thanks."
But I WOULD say "No thanks," instead of being even more furious that
he was babytalking me and being condescending.
-=-so I became more 'solution' focused.. let's eat.... how do you
want to handle this now that an 'oopsy' has happened.... I called his
outbursts 'oopsies'..... bec. that's what it was... it was not
'intentional' to hurt someone... it just happens sometimes.... I know
that to be true bec. I have oopsies, too...-=-
I agree on the solution focus, on making sure kids are hungry, angry,
tired or lonely.
Prisons are full of people who are there mostly for "oopsies."
Something just happened, and someone was seriously injured or
killed. I think it's important to point out to my children when
something they do at home or with friends would be considered a
felony if an adult did it to another adult.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
right now. You were doing something and now it has been changed. How
can I help you?" -=-
If I were frustrated and my husband came in and said "I can see
you're very upset right now. You were doing something and now it has
been changed. How can I help you?" it would make everything twice as
bad.
If he came in and said "Can I help?" it would make things better,
even if all I said was "No thanks."
But I WOULD say "No thanks," instead of being even more furious that
he was babytalking me and being condescending.
-=-so I became more 'solution' focused.. let's eat.... how do you
want to handle this now that an 'oopsy' has happened.... I called his
outbursts 'oopsies'..... bec. that's what it was... it was not
'intentional' to hurt someone... it just happens sometimes.... I know
that to be true bec. I have oopsies, too...-=-
I agree on the solution focus, on making sure kids are hungry, angry,
tired or lonely.
Prisons are full of people who are there mostly for "oopsies."
Something just happened, and someone was seriously injured or
killed. I think it's important to point out to my children when
something they do at home or with friends would be considered a
felony if an adult did it to another adult.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jane S.
Hello Sandra -
Well, I can see that my suggestion would not have been helpful if you
were frustrated... (mental note in case I'm ever in that
situation.. : )
It is an alternative, though, that, imo, is useful.... It is not
meant as 'baby talk'... it is meant more as 'this is what I see'...
not judgment.... some people want to be 'seen' or 'heard'
or 'understood' so my suggestion was speaking to that possibility.
If a friend came to me and said, "I can see that you're upset and I'm
guessing it is related to xyz. Can I help you with something?" I
would appreciate the attempt to understand, listen to, and help me.
So you and I are different in our responses to that type of help... :)
Anyway, that earlier email was my story and I'm sticking to it.. : )
Did ANYBODY find it useful?
Anybody? Anybody? : )
If not, then that's a bummer - I wasted my morning coffee computer
time on it! : )
Jane
Well, I can see that my suggestion would not have been helpful if you
were frustrated... (mental note in case I'm ever in that
situation.. : )
It is an alternative, though, that, imo, is useful.... It is not
meant as 'baby talk'... it is meant more as 'this is what I see'...
not judgment.... some people want to be 'seen' or 'heard'
or 'understood' so my suggestion was speaking to that possibility.
If a friend came to me and said, "I can see that you're upset and I'm
guessing it is related to xyz. Can I help you with something?" I
would appreciate the attempt to understand, listen to, and help me.
So you and I are different in our responses to that type of help... :)
Anyway, that earlier email was my story and I'm sticking to it.. : )
Did ANYBODY find it useful?
Anybody? Anybody? : )
If not, then that's a bummer - I wasted my morning coffee computer
time on it! : )
Jane
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Another idea would have been to say, "I can see you're very
upset
> right now. You were doing something and now it has been changed.
How
> can I help you?" -=-
>
> If I were frustrated and my husband came in and said "I can see
> you're very upset right now. You were doing something and now it
has
> been changed. How can I help you?" it would make everything twice
as
> bad.
>
> If he came in and said "Can I help?" it would make things better,
> even if all I said was "No thanks."
>
> But I WOULD say "No thanks," instead of being even more furious
that
> he was babytalking me and being condescending.
>
> -=-so I became more 'solution' focused.. let's eat.... how do you
> want to handle this now that an 'oopsy' has happened.... I called
his
> outbursts 'oopsies'..... bec. that's what it was... it was not
> 'intentional' to hurt someone... it just happens sometimes.... I
know
> that to be true bec. I have oopsies, too...-=-
>
> I agree on the solution focus, on making sure kids are hungry,
angry,
> tired or lonely.
>
> Prisons are full of people who are there mostly for "oopsies."
> Something just happened, and someone was seriously injured or
> killed. I think it's important to point out to my children when
> something they do at home or with friends would be considered a
> felony if an adult did it to another adult.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>