Sandra Dodd

I think Joyce wrote:

> There are more respectful ways to help a child be
> careful with tools
> than punishment.


Kim wrote:

-=-I guess one could consider that punishment. -=-

If a child loses privileges, that's punishment.

If the deal is made in advance, "Yes you can use my guitar, but you
need to put it back," that might be different. But many abusive
husbands consider that they made the deal in advance, like "Do what I
expect you to do or I'll hit you."

Some deals can't be made fairly.

And if tools or guitar use are part of learning, then the learning is
more important than the clean-up, with younger kids especially.

-=-I happen to think it's a necessary part of any communal form of
living, including the family. What happens when my child doesn't
return his books to the library on time?-=-

If you live in Albuquerque, there aren't fines. Where there are
fines, they're punitive measures intended train people to bring books
back on schedule. The library isn't a commune, though. It probably
belongs to a city, county, a university or something. They figure
out ways to take care of those books that do NOT belong directly to
the borrowers.

My children didn't join any commune. They were born into this
family. I owe them safety and comfort, and by virtue of our
unschooling choice, I owe them scads of opportunities and exposure to
cool stuff and people and places. I have way more duty to fulfill
than they do. It's not "There are five of us so each does 20% of the
work." (Kirby's moved lately, so we're four and 25%, but we don't
expect 25% from the kids. Keith and I take care of our children in
all kinds of ways, gladly and freely.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim King

Two quick points jump out at me in your post, Sandra.
First, you may have had a slight misreading of my use
of the word 'communal'. I meant it in it's more basic
sense--a gathering of two or more people who by virtue
of choice (or birth, or force, or what have you) live
together in a family, town, country, world, etc. In
such a situation there are principles which govern the
behavior of participants. Whether on chooses to live
by those principles is, of course, up to the
individual. My point was that there are consequences
to not doing so.

I also can't help but notice your use of the word
'exposure', recalling that my use of the word and
concept was what sort of tripped this wire in the
first place. I wonder why?

Kim K
-i notice there's another kim who's active; wouldn't
want her to get blamed for my rabbler ousing ;-)


--- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> I think Joyce wrote:
>
> > There are more respectful ways to help a child be
> > careful with tools
> > than punishment.
>
>
> Kim wrote:
>
> -=-I guess one could consider that punishment. -=-
>
> If a child loses privileges, that's punishment.
>
> If the deal is made in advance, "Yes you can use my
> guitar, but you
> need to put it back," that might be different. But
> many abusive
> husbands consider that they made the deal in
> advance, like "Do what I
> expect you to do or I'll hit you."
>
> Some deals can't be made fairly.
>
> And if tools or guitar use are part of learning,
> then the learning is
> more important than the clean-up, with younger kids
> especially.
>
> -=-I happen to think it's a necessary part of any
> communal form of
> living, including the family. What happens when my
> child doesn't
> return his books to the library on time?-=-
>
> If you live in Albuquerque, there aren't fines.
> Where there are
> fines, they're punitive measures intended train
> people to bring books
> back on schedule. The library isn't a commune,
> though. It probably
> belongs to a city, county, a university or
> something. They figure
> out ways to take care of those books that do NOT
> belong directly to
> the borrowers.
>
> My children didn't join any commune. They were born
> into this
> family. I owe them safety and comfort, and by
> virtue of our
> unschooling choice, I owe them scads of
> opportunities and exposure to
> cool stuff and people and places. I have way more
> duty to fulfill
> than they do. It's not "There are five of us so
> each does 20% of the
> work." (Kirby's moved lately, so we're four and
> 25%, but we don't
> expect 25% from the kids. Keith and I take care of
> our children in
> all kinds of ways, gladly and freely.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> mailto:[email protected]
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