Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Videoand unschooling
Nichoel
Terrie,
Thank you for the response! I really have enjoyed this thread for the most part, it has been very enlightening and has made me look at our tv viewing and think about what it 'means' to us medium wise..Very thought provoking!
I do agree with your stance given the vacation rental home situation by the way, however I'm still very interested in your position that you wouldnt expect her to turn on a tv in her own home..Can I ask what you think your son would do if that did occur? Do you think he would be mesmerized by the tv and watch it nonstop or do you think he would be quickly bored and want for more active a pass time? I realized he is still very young so it may be a completely different situation since he's not older and more able to make conscience decisions concerning things like TV vs No tv, but I guess my curiosity/question would be are you going to allow him the right to make that choice when he does get a bit older? Say 8 or 9 (My daughter's age) would you still feel the same in the MIL situation (The her house situation,hypothetically of course)..
Nichoel
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Thank you for the response! I really have enjoyed this thread for the most part, it has been very enlightening and has made me look at our tv viewing and think about what it 'means' to us medium wise..Very thought provoking!
I do agree with your stance given the vacation rental home situation by the way, however I'm still very interested in your position that you wouldnt expect her to turn on a tv in her own home..Can I ask what you think your son would do if that did occur? Do you think he would be mesmerized by the tv and watch it nonstop or do you think he would be quickly bored and want for more active a pass time? I realized he is still very young so it may be a completely different situation since he's not older and more able to make conscience decisions concerning things like TV vs No tv, but I guess my curiosity/question would be are you going to allow him the right to make that choice when he does get a bit older? Say 8 or 9 (My daughter's age) would you still feel the same in the MIL situation (The her house situation,hypothetically of course)..
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Videoand unschooling
Hi Nichoel
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
The exposure I refer was actually at a vacation rental house we all pitched
in to rent and spend a week visiting together (we are west coast and she is
east coast). So it was neutral turf, and my husband, son and I had no where
to go to avoid the tv, and we have made a concious choice to avoid it, as
firmly as a nonsmoker avoids smoke filled houses if you understand what I
mean. So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son and try and spend
the evening reading every book we could find and keep him and ourselves
entertained, yet not having the "visit" we had spent so much money and time
to go there and do. This was sort of an evening ritual for her.
We do not live near her, but if we did I would, as I said expect her to
respect our values and choices and not expose my son to tv. Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms) I feel ANY exposure, especially in
the primary years, when he is still establishing his tastes, personality,
and values, any exposure is toxic. I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point, the point is he is my responsibility, and I have
worked hard to protect his innocence as a child, that includes avoiding
media like tv and videos. If she was a smoker she would be expected not to
smoke in his presence. Same thing. Or she could choose to visit him at our
house and follow our values, if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.
To your point about exposure some day, yes, very true. In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. Also, we can explain the psychology behind manipulative
programing, advertising etc. Now I do believe at a certain time it will be
useful to include videos with information he finds useful, especially during
homeschooling, and fullu expect to enjoy with him quality movies someday.
But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or video)
that the smaller years are not the time for this type of viewing.
Thanks for your thoughtful questions!
Terrie
Mom of Oliver3.5 years
Mom of Benjamin (angel in my heart, would have been 5)
growing new life due in July
It IS a personal choice, but just because your MIL does not have the same
convictions is she really the one at fault? Your child will be exposed to TV
in their lifetime whether it be in your MIL's house or in the airport,
stores etc...That should not be a 'bad' thing by any means.
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
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----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Video
and unschooling
Ariadna; I am with you on the no-tv household. It was a personal choice
before having children, it is not how I like to spend my time, and I
believe
it is a as you say a tool of the the advertisers, and popular culture which
I am not a believer or participant in (ie wearing the "brand name clothes"
perfumes, perfect body, and I do not like the way many programs show people
treating each other, which is often shallow, cruel, or self serving, which
is modeling behavior I disagree with, and since I believe modeling is how
people and children learn to treat themselves and others it is not
something
I want to observe or have observed by my children. I think it is a personal
choice, and if one disagrees with 90 percent of what is displayed on the
screen (this goes for most children videos too) then it is a reasonable
decision to exclude it from ones life, in the same way that if you disagree
with smoking to not allow smokers in your home while they are smoking or
have just smoked. For me, it is not just a concern of how much will my
child watch if I open the "flood gates", and will my child self moderate
the
amount. It is for me, that I do not like most of what is on the tv, and it
is such a passive activity, and a bit mind numbing. I never realized the
effects the tv really had on me until I was tv free for a long time, and
then had exposures (airport, etc) and saw how choppy and short the story
lines and images were, how little time it gave for one to view a scene
before flashing to another, and it actually was uncomfortable to watch
this.
It is not the way the real world is, we don't see our world around us
flashing and changing scenes and views so jarringly, I think it feels
shocking to the system that has not accommodated to that type of visual
stimuli, and I question the health of it. I feel that myself and my
child are better off self stimulating or being with stimulating humans than
a flashing inanimate box. In the same way, I never used inanimate soothing
devices for my child as an infant (i.e. pacifiers, swings, vibrating baby
seats, fake heartbeats playing on a machine because I believed his nature
was to need human contact and human soothing.
Now just because I choose to avoid tv, I am not sitting in judgement of
others who choose tv. I certainly also respect and uphold others choice to
include tv, in the same way that I respect others food choices and
religious
choices. What I don't appreciate is when people (like my MIL) think my
choice has no value, and chooses to have the tv on in front of my child
behind my back, because she had decided my choice has not merit. This is a
violation, just as if she offered my child a food we avoided, or as an
older
child allowed him to have alcohol or exposed him to cigarette smoke. This
is a lifestyle choice our family has made , we all agree on it, and it
needs
to be respected.
Well this is my first post on this board though I've been a
lurker....perhaps I won't be welcome after this (hee hee)
Terrie mother of Oliver 3.5 years
mother of Benjamin ( a dear memory in my heart, would be 5 . 5 years)
pregnant with new life due in July
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Nichoel
Terrie,
I'm not sure I am getting where your parallel was with the daughter..Do you think she was right to insist that the daughter leave if she was going to partake in illegal activity? Do you think that tv watching infringes on your rights the same way someone else being high does your MIL's?
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
I'm not sure I am getting where your parallel was with the daughter..Do you think she was right to insist that the daughter leave if she was going to partake in illegal activity? Do you think that tv watching infringes on your rights the same way someone else being high does your MIL's?
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: FW: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Videoand unschooling
Hi Nichoel
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
I thought of something else I wanted to add, and wanted your thoughts on
this. My MIL has a daughter much younger than the rest of us (22) who was
also at this vacation house. The same evening I refer to with the tv
concern, this daughter arrived in the evening, and the MIL got very angry
because she felt the daughter had been out smoking pot, and warned her if
she was going to be high she could not be in her (MIL) presence, at this
vacation house (equal turf right) and eventually the daughter left the
vacation early. It seems to me this example is one of the MIL feeling her
values were being infringed on by being exposed to something (a person who
was high) being in her presence. Like I felt our values were infringed on
by playing the tv, knowing we did not enjoy it at all. What do you think?
Thanks.
Terrie (again)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
Nichoel:
I cannot recall if I included this, but we have plans to at some point when
the time instinctively feels right, to include media such as televison,
because of several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it is
not avoidable in the wide world, and one needs to be educated about the
effects of media, the power it can have, and the lack of reality of much of
it. Also, I expect to enjoy with him, at the appropriate time, films and
video that add dimension to learning about the world at large. However at
a young age, I think he has enough important things to learn about his
little world he lives in and that is best done through his experiences with
his world, friends, environment etc.
My son has had a few unplanned tv viewings, and I was distressed by the
memorized state he went in to, and he wanted to be 1 inch away from it the
entire time. Also, my son has is spirited and passionate, easily
overstimulated by environments that are chaotic or noisy and hyper. My
instincts are that he is better off without tv for quite some time (videos
too, except we do view our family life videos on our computer, because it is
real to us and helps us enjoy our past and present.) I may add he is also
very verbal, surprisingly early, and loves to converse, is very social with
strangers and friends and seems to enjoy his life very much. He is
sensitive to the feelings of others, and easily concerned if he hears
another child crying, wanting to help or get him help. I feel good about
his little person and I think he does too. I feel good about protecting his
innocence and childhood at this time in his life. Childhood is short, life
compartively long, plenty of time to add vices, but hard to learn what life
would be like without them once vice is established.
Thanks for your civil discourse during this thread, I appreciate the ability
to discuss different choices without feeling or feeling the need to be
arguementative.
Terrie
I cannot recall if I included this, but we have plans to at some point when
the time instinctively feels right, to include media such as televison,
because of several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it is
not avoidable in the wide world, and one needs to be educated about the
effects of media, the power it can have, and the lack of reality of much of
it. Also, I expect to enjoy with him, at the appropriate time, films and
video that add dimension to learning about the world at large. However at
a young age, I think he has enough important things to learn about his
little world he lives in and that is best done through his experiences with
his world, friends, environment etc.
My son has had a few unplanned tv viewings, and I was distressed by the
memorized state he went in to, and he wanted to be 1 inch away from it the
entire time. Also, my son has is spirited and passionate, easily
overstimulated by environments that are chaotic or noisy and hyper. My
instincts are that he is better off without tv for quite some time (videos
too, except we do view our family life videos on our computer, because it is
real to us and helps us enjoy our past and present.) I may add he is also
very verbal, surprisingly early, and loves to converse, is very social with
strangers and friends and seems to enjoy his life very much. He is
sensitive to the feelings of others, and easily concerned if he hears
another child crying, wanting to help or get him help. I feel good about
his little person and I think he does too. I feel good about protecting his
innocence and childhood at this time in his life. Childhood is short, life
compartively long, plenty of time to add vices, but hard to learn what life
would be like without them once vice is established.
Thanks for your civil discourse during this thread, I appreciate the ability
to discuss different choices without feeling or feeling the need to be
arguementative.
Terrie
Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
Actually Nichoel, I am still trying to figure that out, and was wondering
what you thought, but at the time my instincts were that she was offended by
a particular behavior and wanted to not be exposed to the behavior (now if
it was smoking cigarrettes it would have gotten a similar response, so I
think the fact that pot is illegal confuses the issue) but it felt like she
made a choice to not be exposed to something and that was ok, but it was not
ok for our family to make a choice to not be exposed to something, and again
it was on neutral turf and the incidents took place back to back so it
seemed somehow to me that it was a similar feeling she had but I was not
allowed to have it. Again I must add, it was the behind the back thing that
took place in the early morning when she was playing with my son, and made
the comment to mySIL ( who had just said "I don't think they like him to
watch tv") Wel they will just have to get over it. Anyhow, this board (not
your posts) has been an unpleasant place to be so I think as another has
said, I will quietly leave. I also agree the the other post that there are
some interesting rules on this board and it is not as open minded or
supportive as the intro described.
From: "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:46:24 -0800
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning]
TV,Videoand unschooling
Terrie,
I'm not sure I am getting where your parallel was with the daughter..Do you
think she was right to insist that the daughter leave if she was going to
partake in illegal activity? Do you think that tv watching infringes on your
rights the same way someone else being high does your MIL's?
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
what you thought, but at the time my instincts were that she was offended by
a particular behavior and wanted to not be exposed to the behavior (now if
it was smoking cigarrettes it would have gotten a similar response, so I
think the fact that pot is illegal confuses the issue) but it felt like she
made a choice to not be exposed to something and that was ok, but it was not
ok for our family to make a choice to not be exposed to something, and again
it was on neutral turf and the incidents took place back to back so it
seemed somehow to me that it was a similar feeling she had but I was not
allowed to have it. Again I must add, it was the behind the back thing that
took place in the early morning when she was playing with my son, and made
the comment to mySIL ( who had just said "I don't think they like him to
watch tv") Wel they will just have to get over it. Anyhow, this board (not
your posts) has been an unpleasant place to be so I think as another has
said, I will quietly leave. I also agree the the other post that there are
some interesting rules on this board and it is not as open minded or
supportive as the intro described.
From: "Nichoel" <stormyrain73@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:46:24 -0800
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning]
TV,Videoand unschooling
Terrie,
I'm not sure I am getting where your parallel was with the daughter..Do you
think she was right to insist that the daughter leave if she was going to
partake in illegal activity? Do you think that tv watching infringes on your
rights the same way someone else being high does your MIL's?
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: FW: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning]
TV,Videoand unschooling
Hi Nichoel
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family
are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I
can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how
or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
I thought of something else I wanted to add, and wanted your thoughts on
this. My MIL has a daughter much younger than the rest of us (22) who was
also at this vacation house. The same evening I refer to with the tv
concern, this daughter arrived in the evening, and the MIL got very angry
because she felt the daughter had been out smoking pot, and warned her if
she was going to be high she could not be in her (MIL) presence, at this
vacation house (equal turf right) and eventually the daughter left the
vacation early. It seems to me this example is one of the MIL feeling her
values were being infringed on by being exposed to something (a person who
was high) being in her presence. Like I felt our values were infringed on
by playing the tv, knowing we did not enjoy it at all. What do you think?
Thanks.
Terrie (again)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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