halfshadow1

I am having problems with my son's behaviour and i was talking to my
friend who is a LLL and she said to me that she has been telling me
for years to see a counselor. I had a long phone talk with her about
my son's actions and she said if she was me she would be crazy!
I told her i was on the unschooling lists and some moms mention that
they too have high needs,very emotional kids and i got reassured when
they said the kids were better with age. However, she said: yes,but
your not living in peace now, your whole household is stressed!
I have read The Explosive child book, done the things it said.
Let me now explain by examples how and when these constant outbursts
occur. My 6 yo. son asks for a toy yesterday. I answer that I have no
money but daddy gets paid tomorrow and we can get it for him. Son:
screaming, knocking over the garbage can, shouting I hate you!
I always try to validate his feelings (NO BABY TALK) A few moments
later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get off
the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me. Again
an instant fit! A hour hour later son is playing with a toy and having
some trouble, i offer to help but he screams no! I hate you! I quit!
I'm leaving this house!! This happens all day. Most times i don't get
a chance to say a word before he rages. I told my friend that i
thought by nursing him until 4yo,sleeping with him, respecting
him,unschooling,etc. that he would be nice to us. My friend said i
shouldn't blame myself, That i am doing everything right. Maybe it's
food, allergy or something else. Should i get him evaluated? He does
do better when i put a daily cap. of fish oil in his juice. Have other
Unschoolers had their kids evaluated? Is this a good idea? My husband
said he acts this way because he's with me all the time. That he needs
to go somewhere with someone else or other kids for awhile. My husband
said it's so bad he doesn't want to take him anywhere...anymore. Son
had his friend over today and he is not to kind to his friend. my
husband does take him where he asks to go. please give me advice.

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I don't really have time but I just want to say that I have a d\friend that has a very explosive, energetic, 6 year old and she is in betwen mainstream ( kid go to school, gets time out, etc and AP ( breastfed , still co-sleeps) and her son sounds very much like Lukas ( from every post you have writen to date)
So going to school, geting punished, will not get the resulsts your dh wants.

Alex




halfshadow1 <halfshadow1@...> wrote:
I am having problems with my son's behaviour and i was talking to my
friend who is a LLL and she said to me that she has been telling me
for years to see a counselor. I had a long phone talk with her about
my son's actions and she said if she was me she would be crazy!
I told her i was on the unschooling lists and some moms mention that
they too have high needs,very emotional kids and i got reassured when
they said the kids were better with age. However, she said: yes,but
your not living in peace now, your whole household is stressed!
I have read The Explosive child book, done the things it said.
Let me now explain by examples how and when these constant outbursts
occur. My 6 yo. son asks for a toy yesterday. I answer that I have no
money but daddy gets paid tomorrow and we can get it for him. Son:
screaming, knocking over the garbage can, shouting I hate you!
I always try to validate his feelings (NO BABY TALK) A few moments
later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get off
the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me. Again
an instant fit! A hour hour later son is playing with a toy and having
some trouble, i offer to help but he screams no! I hate you! I quit!
I'm leaving this house!! This happens all day. Most times i don't get
a chance to say a word before he rages. I told my friend that i
thought by nursing him until 4yo,sleeping with him, respecting
him,unschooling,etc. that he would be nice to us. My friend said i
shouldn't blame myself, That i am doing everything right. Maybe it's
food, allergy or something else. Should i get him evaluated? He does
do better when i put a daily cap. of fish oil in his juice. Have other
Unschoolers had their kids evaluated? Is this a good idea? My husband
said he acts this way because he's with me all the time. That he needs
to go somewhere with someone else or other kids for awhile. My husband
said it's so bad he doesn't want to take him anywhere...anymore. Son
had his friend over today and he is not to kind to his friend. my
husband does take him where he asks to go. please give me advice.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<<>I am having problems with my son's behaviour and i was talking to my
> friend who is a LLL and she said to me that she has been telling me
> for years to see a counselor. I had a long phone talk with her about
> my son's actions and she said if she was me she would be crazy!....>>>>

When you say "evaluated" are you talking about taking him to a psychiatrist?

What will any evaluation give you? Maybe you would like more "it's not your
fault" validation. Will it make you more able to love, accept and help your
son in his day to day struggle to mature, or will you start seeing him as
broken and be looking for a treatment of some kind.

<<<<< However, she said: yes,but
> your not living in peace now, your whole household is stressed! >>>>

You told us about your son, yourself and dh - is this the whole household?
(I'm just trying to get the full picture.)

<<<< I have read The Explosive child book, done the things it said.>>>

Did you think it was going to effect a "cure"?

<<<<> Let me now explain by examples how and when these constant outbursts
> occur. My 6 yo. son >>>>

Ah.

When people talk about "better with age" they are usually talking about how
pleasant and calm and controlled and helpful and self aware their pre-teen
and teenaged children are.

If you read "Your Six Year Old" (Louise Ames) you will see that Six is just
about the most volatile year there is in a huge number of cases. The
extremes of any particular temperament will be more extreme at six.

<<<< A few moments
> later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get off
> the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me. Again
> an instant fit! >>>

He was still trying to empty his stress cup. What ways does he have to
express stress other than just screaming at you? (Don't take it personally.)

Was your sitting on the couch really worth putting in the "non-negotiable
basket", to use some of the lingo from The Explosive Child?

Jayn likes to be held or stroked a lot of the time when she is raging.
However I notice that many, many mothers report the opposite of their
children. Maybe being next to you would be sensory overload at that moment.

<<<< My friend said i
> shouldn't blame myself, That i am doing everything right. >>>

Forget about doing everything right, and forget about this adversarial
mindset. I think what is happening with this is that you are following a
formula and expecting a specific result - staying "results focused". I
suspect that you had a mental time frame that was pretty darn short.
Unschooling has shown me to make the next moment better, and eventually all
the moments add up.

I never got the idea that The Explosive Child was a "recipe book". It was a
way of changing thinking and then behavior by the parents so that living
with the inevitable rages of these volatile young personalities became
easier with time - so that they develop and learn without being overly
damaged by being treated in ways that caused them to become defensive and
feel worse about themselves.

<<<< she said if she was me she would be crazy >>>

Don't set your personal bar at this other person's low place. I would
probably stop confiding in someone who so consistently gave me such negative
feedback.

Instead read about Unschoolers with spirited children who have had successes
over time and NOT been driven crazy.

Danielle Conger has a boy who raged, less now than when he was younger. Her
energy in helping him and keeping her other two girls safe genuinely
inspires awe. She has lots of things written at her website.

http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/spirited.html

Go to this place - http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn Don't worry about
reading what I wrote if you don't want to, but scroll to the end where you
will find Treegoddess's list of really helpful physical activities to
facilitate emotional reorganization. Sandra has very helpfully colored it
green, so it is easy to see.

<<<< My husband said he acts this way because he's with me all the time.
That he needs
> to go somewhere with someone else or other kids for awhile.>>>

A veiled "he should be in school"?

Your son may need more outside time or less or more climbing or more protein
or more friend time or less enforced social time or more fun with Dad or
Grandpa or any number of things being done differently.

However not being with Mom won't change his temperament. It might make him
feel he has to "hold it in" and then it explodes out, or he might find he is
able to rage and release safely with others also if they love him.

Do you want to be your son's "safe place"? I know I want to be so for Jayn.

<<<< My husband
> said it's so bad he doesn't want to take him anywhere...anymore. Son
> had his friend over today and he is not to kind to his friend. my
> husband does take him where he asks to go. >>>>>

Maybe more playdates on neutral territory like the park?

How does you dh interact with him on these outings? Does he take ds where he
asks to go with joy and let him lead/set the pace during the outing, or is
dh taking him out, but staying in charge and setting out expectations and
trying to mediate ds's experience? Are they staying too long and ds is
getting stressed? Are they leaving too quickly?

Has dh read or discussed The Explosive Child?

Jayn used to be a very calm baby. She had gotten more volatile/explosive
over time, peaking I would say at about 6.5. She is only now starting to
retreat some from raging, and often doesn't treat us nicely. She nursed
until three days ago (so age 8). Nursing doesn't change temperament, even if
it heightens attachment and enhances health, as we all hope it does.

I have faith that we are on the right path, even if we have moments of
wobbling. The alternative paths have no better guarantee.

Robyn L. Coburn

halfshadow1

The friend is a John Holt fan and the best i have right now to talk
too. My mother is toxic,grandpa is good but he comes here. I will not
drop Lukas off at their house because my parents are too old to run
after him if he runs out the door and my mom has done some dangerous
stuff around Lukas. My friend says have him evaluated my a counsuler I
think. She said his behaviour is not apropriate(sp) that it's verbal
abuse and when you go out people don't treat each other like that.She
did say that she does think a child that can't sit still for awhile
should be rugged...natural herbal medicine. Lukas does sit still.
That's not a problem. I am still reading your good post but wanted to
answer these questions. --- In [email protected], "Robyn
L. Coburn" <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<<>I am having problems with my son's behaviour and i was talking
to my
> > friend who is a LLL and she said to me that she has been telling me
> > for years to see a counselor. I had a long phone talk with her about
> > my son's actions and she said if she was me she would be
crazy!....>>>>
>
> When you say "evaluated" are you talking about taking him to a
psychiatrist?
>
> What will any evaluation give you? Maybe you would like more "it's
not your
> fault" validation. Will it make you more able to love, accept and
help your
> son in his day to day struggle to mature, or will you start seeing
him as
> broken and be looking for a treatment of some kind.
>
> <<<<< However, she said: yes,but
> > your not living in peace now, your whole household is stressed! >>>>
>
> You told us about your son, yourself and dh - is this the whole
household?
> (I'm just trying to get the full picture.)
>
> <<<< I have read The Explosive child book, done the things it said.>>>
>
> Did you think it was going to effect a "cure"?
>
> <<<<> Let me now explain by examples how and when these constant
outbursts
> > occur. My 6 yo. son >>>>
>
> Ah.
>
> When people talk about "better with age" they are usually talking
about how
> pleasant and calm and controlled and helpful and self aware their
pre-teen
> and teenaged children are.
>
> If you read "Your Six Year Old" (Louise Ames) you will see that Six
is just
> about the most volatile year there is in a huge number of cases. The
> extremes of any particular temperament will be more extreme at six.
>
> <<<< A few moments
> > later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get off
> > the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me. Again
> > an instant fit! >>>
>
> He was still trying to empty his stress cup. What ways does he have to
> express stress other than just screaming at you? (Don't take it
personally.)
>
> Was your sitting on the couch really worth putting in the
"non-negotiable
> basket", to use some of the lingo from The Explosive Child?
>
> Jayn likes to be held or stroked a lot of the time when she is raging.
> However I notice that many, many mothers report the opposite of their
> children. Maybe being next to you would be sensory overload at that
moment.
>
> <<<< My friend said i
> > shouldn't blame myself, That i am doing everything right. >>>
>
> Forget about doing everything right, and forget about this adversarial
> mindset. I think what is happening with this is that you are
following a
> formula and expecting a specific result - staying "results focused". I
> suspect that you had a mental time frame that was pretty darn short.
> Unschooling has shown me to make the next moment better, and
eventually all
> the moments add up.
>
> I never got the idea that The Explosive Child was a "recipe book".
It was a
> way of changing thinking and then behavior by the parents so that
living
> with the inevitable rages of these volatile young personalities became
> easier with time - so that they develop and learn without being overly
> damaged by being treated in ways that caused them to become
defensive and
> feel worse about themselves.
>
> <<<< she said if she was me she would be crazy >>>
>
> Don't set your personal bar at this other person's low place. I would
> probably stop confiding in someone who so consistently gave me such
negative
> feedback.
>
> Instead read about Unschoolers with spirited children who have had
successes
> over time and NOT been driven crazy.
>
> Danielle Conger has a boy who raged, less now than when he was
younger. Her
> energy in helping him and keeping her other two girls safe genuinely
> inspires awe. She has lots of things written at her website.
>
> http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/spirited.html
>
> Go to this place - http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn Don't worry about
> reading what I wrote if you don't want to, but scroll to the end
where you
> will find Treegoddess's list of really helpful physical activities to
> facilitate emotional reorganization. Sandra has very helpfully
colored it
> green, so it is easy to see.
>
> <<<< My husband said he acts this way because he's with me all the
time.
> That he needs
> > to go somewhere with someone else or other kids for awhile.>>>
>
> A veiled "he should be in school"?
>
> Your son may need more outside time or less or more climbing or more
protein
> or more friend time or less enforced social time or more fun with
Dad or
> Grandpa or any number of things being done differently.
>
> However not being with Mom won't change his temperament. It might
make him
> feel he has to "hold it in" and then it explodes out, or he might
find he is
> able to rage and release safely with others also if they love him.
>
> Do you want to be your son's "safe place"? I know I want to be so
for Jayn.
>
> <<<< My husband
> > said it's so bad he doesn't want to take him anywhere...anymore. Son
> > had his friend over today and he is not to kind to his friend. my
> > husband does take him where he asks to go. >>>>>
>
> Maybe more playdates on neutral territory like the park?
>
> How does you dh interact with him on these outings? Does he take ds
where he
> asks to go with joy and let him lead/set the pace during the outing,
or is
> dh taking him out, but staying in charge and setting out
expectations and
> trying to mediate ds's experience? Are they staying too long and ds is
> getting stressed? Are they leaving too quickly?
>
> Has dh read or discussed The Explosive Child?
>
> Jayn used to be a very calm baby. She had gotten more
volatile/explosive
> over time, peaking I would say at about 6.5. She is only now
starting to
> retreat some from raging, and often doesn't treat us nicely. She nursed
> until three days ago (so age 8). Nursing doesn't change temperament,
even if
> it heightens attachment and enhances health, as we all hope it does.
>
> I have faith that we are on the right path, even if we have moments of
> wobbling. The alternative paths have no better guarantee.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>

halfshadow1

Robyn, yes it is just the three of us. Ron takes him to the park until
he wants to go home.I didn't think the book would be a cure all but i
did think aome of the stuff he suggested would work. Maybe a counsulor
could give me tools to work with? Help me understand what going on and
why?--- In [email protected], "Robyn L. Coburn"
<dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<<>I am having problems with my son's behaviour and i was talking
to my
> > friend who is a LLL and she said to me that she has been telling me
> > for years to see a counselor. I had a long phone talk with her about
> > my son's actions and she said if she was me she would be
crazy!....>>>>
>
> When you say "evaluated" are you talking about taking him to a
psychiatrist?
>
> What will any evaluation give you? Maybe you would like more "it's
not your
> fault" validation. Will it make you more able to love, accept and
help your
> son in his day to day struggle to mature, or will you start seeing
him as
> broken and be looking for a treatment of some kind.
>
> <<<<< However, she said: yes,but
> > your not living in peace now, your whole household is stressed! >>>>
>
> You told us about your son, yourself and dh - is this the whole
household?
> (I'm just trying to get the full picture.)
>
> <<<< I have read The Explosive child book, done the things it said.>>>
>
> Did you think it was going to effect a "cure"?
>
> <<<<> Let me now explain by examples how and when these constant
outbursts
> > occur. My 6 yo. son >>>>
>
> Ah.
>
> When people talk about "better with age" they are usually talking
about how
> pleasant and calm and controlled and helpful and self aware their
pre-teen
> and teenaged children are.
>
> If you read "Your Six Year Old" (Louise Ames) you will see that Six
is just
> about the most volatile year there is in a huge number of cases. The
> extremes of any particular temperament will be more extreme at six.
>
> <<<< A few moments
> > later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get off
> > the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me. Again
> > an instant fit! >>>
>
> He was still trying to empty his stress cup. What ways does he have to
> express stress other than just screaming at you? (Don't take it
personally.)
>
> Was your sitting on the couch really worth putting in the
"non-negotiable
> basket", to use some of the lingo from The Explosive Child?
>
> Jayn likes to be held or stroked a lot of the time when she is raging.
> However I notice that many, many mothers report the opposite of their
> children. Maybe being next to you would be sensory overload at that
moment.
>
> <<<< My friend said i
> > shouldn't blame myself, That i am doing everything right. >>>
>
> Forget about doing everything right, and forget about this adversarial
> mindset. I think what is happening with this is that you are
following a
> formula and expecting a specific result - staying "results focused". I
> suspect that you had a mental time frame that was pretty darn short.
> Unschooling has shown me to make the next moment better, and
eventually all
> the moments add up.
>
> I never got the idea that The Explosive Child was a "recipe book".
It was a
> way of changing thinking and then behavior by the parents so that
living
> with the inevitable rages of these volatile young personalities became
> easier with time - so that they develop and learn without being overly
> damaged by being treated in ways that caused them to become
defensive and
> feel worse about themselves.
>
> <<<< she said if she was me she would be crazy >>>
>
> Don't set your personal bar at this other person's low place. I would
> probably stop confiding in someone who so consistently gave me such
negative
> feedback.
>
> Instead read about Unschoolers with spirited children who have had
successes
> over time and NOT been driven crazy.
>
> Danielle Conger has a boy who raged, less now than when he was
younger. Her
> energy in helping him and keeping her other two girls safe genuinely
> inspires awe. She has lots of things written at her website.
>
> http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/spirited.html
>
> Go to this place - http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn Don't worry about
> reading what I wrote if you don't want to, but scroll to the end
where you
> will find Treegoddess's list of really helpful physical activities to
> facilitate emotional reorganization. Sandra has very helpfully
colored it
> green, so it is easy to see.
>
> <<<< My husband said he acts this way because he's with me all the
time.
> That he needs
> > to go somewhere with someone else or other kids for awhile.>>>
>
> A veiled "he should be in school"?
>
> Your son may need more outside time or less or more climbing or more
protein
> or more friend time or less enforced social time or more fun with
Dad or
> Grandpa or any number of things being done differently.
>
> However not being with Mom won't change his temperament. It might
make him
> feel he has to "hold it in" and then it explodes out, or he might
find he is
> able to rage and release safely with others also if they love him.
>
> Do you want to be your son's "safe place"? I know I want to be so
for Jayn.
>
> <<<< My husband
> > said it's so bad he doesn't want to take him anywhere...anymore. Son
> > had his friend over today and he is not to kind to his friend. my
> > husband does take him where he asks to go. >>>>>
>
> Maybe more playdates on neutral territory like the park?
>
> How does you dh interact with him on these outings? Does he take ds
where he
> asks to go with joy and let him lead/set the pace during the outing,
or is
> dh taking him out, but staying in charge and setting out
expectations and
> trying to mediate ds's experience? Are they staying too long and ds is
> getting stressed? Are they leaving too quickly?
>
> Has dh read or discussed The Explosive Child?
>
> Jayn used to be a very calm baby. She had gotten more
volatile/explosive
> over time, peaking I would say at about 6.5. She is only now
starting to
> retreat some from raging, and often doesn't treat us nicely. She nursed
> until three days ago (so age 8). Nursing doesn't change temperament,
even if
> it heightens attachment and enhances health, as we all hope it does.
>
> I have faith that we are on the right path, even if we have moments of
> wobbling. The alternative paths have no better guarantee.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>

halfshadow1

How does you dh interact with him on these outings?
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>Often with regret...he says he's tired and now has to be dragged out
of the house. I talked with tonight(he's at work until midnite) and
when he is home all he does is watch jerry springer,judy
whoever...doesn't "connect" with Lukas. I asked him if he could sit
and play just a half hour and maybe Lukas will feel like he's into him.

He did agree...saying:I'll try it. I said please give it time. It
might take a week, a month,whatever. Then side by side he can talk
with Lukas. He says when he tries to play with Lukas outside that
Lukas will just run off. He does try...maybe not in the right way?

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Robyn did a much beter job at writing that I could have ever done.
I wanted to add that limiting his play on his NIntendo DS like you told us you did a while ago are probably just going to add to his rages.

If I was a child I would have gotten really mad if my mom had limited my play with something I love ( luckly she never did).

My ds gets very frustrated and mad when he is having a hard time playing his video games.
I have not limit his time. Once he can get whatever he was trying to do done he is so happy with himself and moves on (until next challenge!)

I try to be proactive and offer breaks, feed him, and give him drinks , sit with him and share some playing(connection). I even spoon feed him if he needs. He still rages but that is OK.
I am glad he feels comfortable enough to be able to fully express his feelings in front of me.
I love when he gets mad and comes to tell me about the "dumb ashes".

Heather you have a choice to see your son, and his personality traits as
a good thing, a wonfderful, energetic, passionate, boisterous, child or someone to be fixed.
We know what his father thinks already and that is sad. I am sure he can pick up on that.

It must be hard to grow up feeling you have something wrong with you, that you are not good enough for your parents, that you need to be fixed. Don't let that happen to you son. Like Robyn said he is only 6 years old. He is a small child that needs more of his mom and dad not less.
Alex


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- I said please give it time. It
might take a week, a month,whatever.-=-



It might take a year. Each decision will move you closer to a better
relationship, or further away. Each day, your son will get older,
too. Tomorrow won't be just like today. It will be better or worse,
depending on the choices you make today.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Then side by side he can talk
with Lukas. He says when he tries to play with Lukas outside that
Lukas will just run off. He does try...maybe not in the right way?-=-

"side by side" reminded me of this. This might help your husband:



http://sandradodd.com/truck

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<< Maybe a counsulor
> could give me tools to work with? Help me understand what going on and
> why? >>>>

Maybe.

More likely if the counsellor understands unschooling.

Or maybe tools to change who your son is meant to be if they are a
mainstream person invested in school think. Risk assessment needed. You
don't need our permission, you know. People have stories of positive
experiences, and negative ones. Try searching archives.

Unschoolers *definitely* can give you tools to work with that can help you
be an Unschooling mindful parent.

What is most likely going on is that your son is six, spirited, free and
loved.

Our free little children don't look like controlled, molded, shamed,
rewarded/punished, directed little children. They often look wild, fearless,
determined, raw. Sometimes they look too big for a controlled, disciplined,
"proper" society. They experiment. They feel and express themselves,
including their negative emotions.

Then suddenly, like a miracle that we don't notice until after it is
accomplished - like the peach tree suddenly being covered in blooms - our
wild, difficult, outspoken little children, are creative, open, thoughtful,
outspoken yet courteous, loving, acceptant and tolerant, self-aware and
optimistic teenagers and young adults. They aren't secretly self
destructive, or strangers to their parents.

<<<< She said his behaviour is not apropriate(sp) that it's verbal
abuse and when you go out people don't treat each other like that.>>>

See I think this is a *very* mainstream judgmental attitude, and is probably
not helping your serenity. If you choose to label your son as an "abuser" it
is so much harder to be compassionate to him. We can choose the descriptors
we use. Your son is 6 and struggling and probably feels powerless. He is not
an adult with power abusing you. Perhaps he needs more help than a child to
whom social niceties come easily. Maybe he needs not to be taken to places
that trigger his behavior or spark fears. Sometimes it is something as
simple as flickering neon lights. (In Jayn's case, big echoey places, big
dark places.)

Certainly there is a time to explain that people shouldn't treat each other
badly. That time is not in the middle of a meltdown. But it is also
important to consider what is possible and achievable for any individual
child's development level. Constantly expecting more from him than he can
truly give will only make him feel worse about himself.

Robyn L. Coburn

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1"
<halfshadow1@...> wrote:
>
> , she said: yes,but
> your not living in peace now, your whole household is stressed!

If you are at the begining of unschooling than this is par for the
course it is stressful to change


> I have read The Explosive child book, done the things it said.

The one thing I got out of that book was what is really non-
negotiable--- really that boils down to safety- everything thing
eles is negotiable.



> Let me now explain by examples how and when these constant
outbursts
> occur. My 6 yo. son asks for a toy yesterday. I answer that I have
no
> money but daddy gets paid tomorrow and we can get it for him. Son:
> screaming, knocking over the garbage can, shouting I hate you!

make sure you are planning for a fit when you say no- be prepared
for an outburst--- lots of times I would say- no we can not get that
but lets go find a candy bar instead.




> I always try to validate his feelings (NO BABY TALK)

my daughter did not really want talking-the more I talked the worse
she got- she would say- I have it in my head now you do not need to
tell me- she was 3 and 4



A few moments
> later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get
off
> the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me.
Again
> an instant fit!

I would try hey sit next to me and then a tickle and playful- hey I
would love to get of your couch and sit in this nice chair.




A hour hour later son is playing with a toy and having
> some trouble, i offer to help but he screams no! I hate you! I
quit!
> I'm leaving this house!!

my daughter did this too- we started a game called "your out of the
family" so I would laugh and say well your out of the family so good
bye andthen she would laugh-- if she walked out the door I would not
chase her because she would then realize I was behind her and be
able to save her but by not going after her she realized wuickly she
was on her own- this may work only for some kids who would realize
that they were on their own. She has not done this in a long time

I told my friend that i
> thought by nursing him until 4yo,sleeping with him, respecting
> him,unschooling,etc. that he would be nice to us.

Just because you are nice to someone does not make it all click-
This was the biggest problem with attachment parenting it was just
about being nice

he needs something eles- sometimes I would tell my daughter- when
you yell at me it makes me feel like not getting that for you but
since I love you I will. The other day she started yelling when a
friend was here who conventionally parents and I saw her hold her
breath to see what punishment my daughter got- I raised my voice to
her level and said- why are you yelling- then she said something and
I said you are yelling because you are fursterrated. Then it was over

My daughters are now 5 and 3 and they have changed so much in the
last year of unschooling and I would not change it- does not mean
they never rage or meltdown but it is few and far between now and
usually when they are tired. So yes they CAN change but sometimes
they do not and if you have been doing this for a while instead of
thinking he will change try thinking that you will find ways to cope
and deal with it and not expect him to be different



My friend said i
> shouldn't blame myself, That i am doing everything right. Maybe
it's
> food, allergy or something else. Should i get him evaluated?

what do you want to find out? If there is a magical reason he is
acting this way and a magical fix? Stop thinking about fixing him
and just love him and live with him.

evaluated for what? at best you will get some form ADD or ADHA or
sensory issues, maybe aspie scale- they will probably want to put
him on meds even though it will not fix or end the behavior and you
will spend the next forever years going from med to med from dose to
dose and it will NEVER get better. You know he is high energy,
spirtited, what more do you want to know.

My husband
> said he acts this way because he's with me all the time. That he
needs
> to go somewhere with someone else or other kids for awhile.

not true- though my mom thought this a little bit too. Putting him
around other kids will not help and probably hurt them or him


My husband
> said it's so bad he doesn't want to take him anywhere...anymore.
Son
> had his friend over today and he is not to kind to his friend. my
> husband does take him where he asks to go. please give me advice.
>

What do you think he needs from you? From dad? does he need more say
so- more "if--- then" stuff- this works good with my two "if you go
potty I will fix your drink"-- If you pick up toys with me then we
can read books- most the time they do it but sometimes I get a no
and that is ok too.

Julie

halfshadow1

-I limited his Nintendo play because what she said(friend) She said
it's not good for him to be frustrated all the time, that i wouldn't
give my son alcohol,bad food..why give hin the nintendo that
frustrates him and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My
high energy boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the
video game play. It made sense to me. In defense of Lukas' dad, He
loves his son very much. He does has own limits tho, his age (going to
be 57 on the 7th,his recent stroke and working the nightshift 2 nights
a week. He is open to hearing me and seeing things different but he
does backslide.-- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
>
> Robyn did a much beter job at writing that I could have ever done.
> I wanted to add that limiting his play on his NIntendo DS like
you told us you did a while ago are probably just going to add to his
rages.
>
> If I was a child I would have gotten really mad if my mom had
limited my play with something I love ( luckly she never did).
>
> My ds gets very frustrated and mad when he is having a hard time
playing his video games.
> I have not limit his time. Once he can get whatever he was trying
to do done he is so happy with himself and moves on (until next
challenge!)
>
> I try to be proactive and offer breaks, feed him, and give him
drinks , sit with him and share some playing(connection). I even
spoon feed him if he needs. He still rages but that is OK.
> I am glad he feels comfortable enough to be able to fully express
his feelings in front of me.
> I love when he gets mad and comes to tell me about the "dumb ashes".
>
> Heather you have a choice to see your son, and his personality
traits as
> a good thing, a wonfderful, energetic, passionate, boisterous,
child or someone to be fixed.
> We know what his father thinks already and that is sad. I am sure
he can pick up on that.
>
> It must be hard to grow up feeling you have something wrong with
you, that you are not good enough for your parents, that you need to
be fixed. Don't let that happen to you son. Like Robyn said he is only
6 years old. He is a small child that needs more of his mom and dad
not less.
> Alex
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

wisdomalways5

limiting the TIME will not help him not be frustrated- learning how
to play the game will- I would make sure it was at his level ability
and maybe someone who knows the game to help show him HOW unless you
can learn and show him.





--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1"
<halfshadow1@...> wrote:
>
> -I limited his Nintendo play because what she said(friend) She said
> it's not good for him to be frustrated all the time, that i
wouldn't
> give my son alcohol,bad food..why give hin the nintendo that
> frustrates him and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My
> high energy boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the
> video game play. It made sense to me. In defense of Lukas' dad, He
> loves his son very much. He does has own limits tho, his age
(going to
> be 57 on the 7th,his recent stroke and working the nightshift 2
nights
> a week. He is open to hearing me and seeing things different but he
> does backslide.-- In [email protected], BRIAN
POLIKOWSKY
> <polykowholsteins@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Robyn did a much beter job at writing that I could have ever
done.
> > I wanted to add that limiting his play on his NIntendo DS like
> you told us you did a while ago are probably just going to add to
his
> rages.
> >
> > If I was a child I would have gotten really mad if my mom had
> limited my play with something I love ( luckly she never did).
> >
> > My ds gets very frustrated and mad when he is having a hard
time
> playing his video games.
> > I have not limit his time. Once he can get whatever he was
trying
> to do done he is so happy with himself and moves on (until next
> challenge!)
> >
> > I try to be proactive and offer breaks, feed him, and give him
> drinks , sit with him and share some playing(connection). I even
> spoon feed him if he needs. He still rages but that is OK.
> > I am glad he feels comfortable enough to be able to fully
express
> his feelings in front of me.
> > I love when he gets mad and comes to tell me about the "dumb
ashes".
> >
> > Heather you have a choice to see your son, and his personality
> traits as
> > a good thing, a wonfderful, energetic, passionate, boisterous,
> child or someone to be fixed.
> > We know what his father thinks already and that is sad. I am
sure
> he can pick up on that.
> >
> > It must be hard to grow up feeling you have something wrong
with
> you, that you are not good enough for your parents, that you need
to
> be fixed. Don't let that happen to you son. Like Robyn said he is
only
> 6 years old. He is a small child that needs more of his mom and dad
> not less.
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

halfshadow1

-I agree with that but it is really good for him to play all day? I
let him play for months thinking he would take an interest in other
things but he didn't.-- In [email protected],
"wisdomalways5" <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
>
> limiting the TIME will not help him not be frustrated- learning how
> to play the game will- I would make sure it was at his level ability
> and maybe someone who knows the game to help show him HOW unless you
> can learn and show him.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "halfshadow1"
> <halfshadow1@> wrote:
> >
> > -I limited his Nintendo play because what she said(friend) She said
> > it's not good for him to be frustrated all the time, that i
> wouldn't
> > give my son alcohol,bad food..why give hin the nintendo that
> > frustrates him and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My
> > high energy boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the
> > video game play. It made sense to me. In defense of Lukas' dad, He
> > loves his son very much. He does has own limits tho, his age
> (going to
> > be 57 on the 7th,his recent stroke and working the nightshift 2
> nights
> > a week. He is open to hearing me and seeing things different but he
> > does backslide.-- In [email protected], BRIAN
> POLIKOWSKY
> > <polykowholsteins@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Robyn did a much beter job at writing that I could have ever
> done.
> > > I wanted to add that limiting his play on his NIntendo DS like
> > you told us you did a while ago are probably just going to add to
> his
> > rages.
> > >
> > > If I was a child I would have gotten really mad if my mom had
> > limited my play with something I love ( luckly she never did).
> > >
> > > My ds gets very frustrated and mad when he is having a hard
> time
> > playing his video games.
> > > I have not limit his time. Once he can get whatever he was
> trying
> > to do done he is so happy with himself and moves on (until next
> > challenge!)
> > >
> > > I try to be proactive and offer breaks, feed him, and give him
> > drinks , sit with him and share some playing(connection). I even
> > spoon feed him if he needs. He still rages but that is OK.
> > > I am glad he feels comfortable enough to be able to fully
> express
> > his feelings in front of me.
> > > I love when he gets mad and comes to tell me about the "dumb
> ashes".
> > >
> > > Heather you have a choice to see your son, and his personality
> > traits as
> > > a good thing, a wonfderful, energetic, passionate, boisterous,
> > child or someone to be fixed.
> > > We know what his father thinks already and that is sad. I am
> sure
> > he can pick up on that.
> > >
> > > It must be hard to grow up feeling you have something wrong
> with
> > you, that you are not good enough for your parents, that you need
> to
> > be fixed. Don't let that happen to you son. Like Robyn said he is
> only
> > 6 years old. He is a small child that needs more of his mom and dad
> > not less.
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Sandra Dodd

-=--I limited his Nintendo play because what she said(friend) She said
it's not good for him to be frustrated all the time, that i wouldn't
give my son alcohol,bad food..why give hin the nintendo that
frustrates him and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My
high energy boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the
video game play. -=-



Are you on the UnschoolingDiscussion list too? It might be worth
joining and reading the discussion today about video games. Some of
the links are here, but not all:

http://sandradodd.com/screentime

http://sandradodd.com/videogames



I'm still working on that top one, but look at the first link on the
one about videogames, please.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

why would reading a book all day be "good" but playing video games
be "bad" -- I would let him play as long as he wants and if he is upset
talk about being upset when you do not know how to do something and
ways you can learn about the game in order to master it.

when he learned how to walk or crawl did you limit him to an hour of
practice a day because it was too much stress?


--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1" <halfshadow1@...>
wrote:
>
> -I agree with that but it is really good for him to play all day? I
> let him play for months thinking he would take an interest in other
> things but he didn't.-- In [email protected],
> "wisdomalways5" <wisdom1133@> wrote:
> >
> > limiting the TIME will not help him not be frustrated- learning how
> > to play the game will- I would make sure it was at his level
ability
> > and maybe someone who knows the game to help show him HOW unless
you
> > can learn and show him.
> >

Sandra Dodd

-=-limiting the TIME will not help him not be frustrated- learning how
to play the game will- I would make sure it was at his level ability
and maybe someone who knows the game to help show him HOW unless you
can learn and show him. -=-



Dan Vilter wrote something about this a few years ago that's good.

http://sandradodd.com/danvilter

It's the second one, about making video games easier. You would do
it if he were trying to learn to write or ride a bike; you would help
him. (And if you just took the pencils and paper away, or took the
bike away, he'd probably get angry, and who could blame him?)

Maybe hire an older kid to come play video games with him sometimes.
Don't say "can't afford it," because you're talking about considering
"evaluation" which would lead to drugs and maybe government
intervention. A mother's helper to play with him while you're
there might make a world of difference.

Sandra










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

emmy

great responses! also i'm wondering if he may also be overstimulated visually or another form of sensory issues. not to label or define him but to better understand him (beyond the age factor). i have this and never understood it until recently and it makes my life so much easier to understand that my senses are just overstimulated! i didn't know how to relate to it verbally so when i hit MAX it often "came" so agressively i couldn't deal with the overload so *explosion*.

didn't you say you lived around brevard county? i live in titusville maybe we can get together!!

emmy

www.foundthings.etsy.com
www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
www.emmytofa.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris

There is so much good advice on this thread I just wanted to give an
opinion about this one point - it is something that took me a long
time to come to understand.

"I agree with that but it is really good for him to play all day?"

Yes.

"I let him play for months thinking he would take an interest in other
things but he didn't."

I have come to believe that our children can sense when we
are "letting" them do "xyz" (in this case games) while secretly
hoping they will do something we feel is more worthwile. They know
there is no true acceptance of their choice - parent is tolerating
but displeased with their choice. Perhaps this could be damaging
sons trust in you, undermining his sense of security and further
complicating the rage and frustration issues.

My heart goes out to you, I can see you are trying and I hope you are
able to find peace. There is so much to learn here, keep reading.

Namaste,
Chris

ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH

For me one of the hardest things when Linnaea gets frustrated and unhappy is making room for her. Often I feel pressed by other things, other commitments. So, last night, for example. I came up to bed and Linnaea was sitting on the foot of Simon's bed and David and Simon were irritated with her. And suddenly I felt burdened by everybody elses need for sleep and calm and rational as well as a need to help Linnaea negotiate through whatever she need negotiating through. The hard thing for me is being able to shunt aside those feelings and take care of her in that moment. It is important that you figure out a way to put Lukas before your friend's needs and your husband's nneeds in those moments where he needs you to be there for him, even if he is telling you to go away (you can always give him space, but try and do it generously and try not to say "fine, I'll just go then" in the angry, hurt voice of someone who is taking it personally). Just like Linnaea
needs me to be there for her in those moments which often come when something else is pressing. Same for Simon, except he is usually likely to get tense when we are leaving to go and do something. Again a moment when I feel pressed by other people's needs, even when I'm not.

Your friend wants to fix it for you, she wants to help you feel better, she feels that by giving to your son he will learn that he can get his way when he behaves meanly or badly. The problem with that assessment is that it believes that Lukas enjoys, or at least doesn't mind, being angry and tense and stressed and yelling. I don't like that feeling that way. It hurts, my stomach hurts, my head hurts, I get thirsty, it isn't any fun. I don't imagine that Lukas enjoys that feeling either. If instead of looking at it from your friend's perspective, look at it from his, if he can see his mom reaching out to help him when he is angry and upset, when his stress cup is full (as Robyn put it) he will feel supported. Just that support will help to empty some of his stress. It won't empty it. It isn't a cure-all. But it will help. Figuring out how to negotiate with big emotions, with intense feelings is a hard job. If you can help him to have the space and the
time to move from rage to calm, and it can take hours particularly at first, he will be better equipped to deal with those feelings as he ages. I didn't have help and I have big anger issues still. Linnaea and I try and coach each other, she will tell me to breathe when I start to get angry. Helping Linnaea is helping me as well.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com


----- Original Message ----
From: halfshadow1 <halfshadow1@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 2 February, 2008 5:13:31 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Have him evaluated?

-I limited his Nintendo play because what she said(friend) She said
it's not good for him to be frustrated all the time, that i wouldn't
give my son alcohol,bad food..why give hin the nintendo that
frustrates him and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My
high energy boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the
video game play. It made sense to me. In defense of Lukas' dad, He
loves his son very much. He does has own limits tho, his age (going to
be 57 on the 7th,his recent stroke and working the nightshift 2 nights
a week. He is open to hearing me and seeing things different but he
does backslide.-- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
>
> Robyn did a much beter job at writing that I could have ever done.
> I wanted to add that limiting his play on his NIntendo DS like
you told us you did a while ago are probably just going to add to his
rages.
>
> If I was a child I would have gotten really mad if my mom had
limited my play with something I love ( luckly she never did).
>
> My ds gets very frustrated and mad when he is having a hard time
playing his video games.
> I have not limit his time. Once he can get whatever he was trying
to do done he is so happy with himself and moves on (until next
challenge!)
>
> I try to be proactive and offer breaks, feed him, and give him
drinks , sit with him and share some playing(connection). I even
spoon feed him if he needs. He still rages but that is OK.
> I am glad he feels comfortable enough to be able to fully express
his feelings in front of me.
> I love when he gets mad and comes to tell me about the "dumb ashes".
>
> Heather you have a choice to see your son, and his personality
traits as
> a good thing, a wonfderful, energetic, passionate, boisterous,
child or someone to be fixed.
> We know what his father thinks already and that is sad. I am sure
he can pick up on that.
>
> It must be hard to grow up feeling you have something wrong with
you, that you are not good enough for your parents, that you need to
be fixed. Don't let that happen to you son. Like Robyn said he is only
6 years old. He is a small child that needs more of his mom and dad
not less.
> Alex
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

At 21:42 2/1/2008, you wrote:
><<<< A few moments
> > later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i get off
> > the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me. Again
> > an instant fit! >>>

Once I started responding to Liam the way I could see *he* apparently
wanted me to respond to him (rather than the way I thought he wanted
me to respond to him) things gradually began to get easier and easier
and easier. Initially, my instincts told me that when he was
frustrated to be there for him and be soothing and try to help. But,
though that all seems nice, that was obviously not what he needed or
wanted! (And, in retrospect, it was, ahem, rather grandiose of me to
want to be the solution to his every problem.) He needed space to
feel and express his frustration, only he did not know how to tell me
that's what he wanted. Once I finally got it, everything was able to
get better. And, the sooner I was able to get myself out of his way,
the less need he had to rage.

In the meantime, three things sustained me:

1. I *decided* to feel honored to be Liam's safe place where he
could express the ugliest thoughts and yet know he was incredibly and
thoroughly loved and adored,

2. Where possible, I would offer constructive help (like "Do you
want me to look that up and see if there's a way to beat that
boss?"), and if he said OK, good, but if not, I'd back off, and

3. I decided not to take his rages personally.

Liam at age 13 is the same person as Liam at age 6 and younger. But,
he is so intensely considerate and sweet and kind and loving now. I
am not saying that what I did *worked*. Again, in retrospect, I see
that we were on a path of adversity, though that was not my conscious
choice. I think that by being willing to abandon my grandiose
notions of how I should parent, we were able to get on a better path
that had less to do with my ego and more to do with allowing Liam the
space to discover himself and who he really is on his own terms.

~Marji

P.S. LLLs are great, but having been one myself, I learned early on
that being a LLL is not necessarily a guarantee that that person's
parenting skills will be worthy of emulation, and parenting advice
from all sources is to be taken with at least a grain of salt.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

halfshadow1

-yes! Sure that would be great. I will email you.-- In
[email protected], "emmy" <foundthings@...> wrote:
>
> great responses! also i'm wondering if he may also be overstimulated
visually or another form of sensory issues. not to label or define him
but to better understand him (beyond the age factor). i have this and
never understood it until recently and it makes my life so much easier
to understand that my senses are just overstimulated! i didn't know
how to relate to it verbally so when i hit MAX it often "came" so
agressively i couldn't deal with the overload so *explosion*.
>
> didn't you say you lived around brevard county? i live in titusville
maybe we can get together!!
>
> emmy
>
> www.foundthings.etsy.com
> www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
> www.emmytofa.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

halfshadow1

-I should know better as an unschooler buti think what happened is i
listened to that friend when I was stressed and she said stuff that
made sense to me but not for my son.Like she said he'll start playing
with his toys again, which he is. -- In
[email protected], "Chris" <spunkyhorsey@...> wrote:
>
> There is so much good advice on this thread I just wanted to give an
> opinion about this one point - it is something that took me a long
> time to come to understand.
>
> "I agree with that but it is really good for him to play all day?"
>
> Yes.
>
> "I let him play for months thinking he would take an interest in other
> things but he didn't."
>
> I have come to believe that our children can sense when we
> are "letting" them do "xyz" (in this case games) while secretly
> hoping they will do something we feel is more worthwile. They know
> there is no true acceptance of their choice - parent is tolerating
> but displeased with their choice. Perhaps this could be damaging
> sons trust in you, undermining his sense of security and further
> complicating the rage and frustration issues.
>
> My heart goes out to you, I can see you are trying and I hope you are
> able to find peace. There is so much to learn here, keep reading.
>
> Namaste,
> Chris
>

Sandra Dodd

><<<< A few moments
> > later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i
get off
> > the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me.
Again
> > an instant fit! >>>



This part came back to my thoughts too.

Very often the problems people bring to the list aren't the real
problem. What happened before he sat on the couch or before that, or
before that? Was he made to wake up when he hadn't slept long
enough? Had he been made to go to sleep (or rather made to lie in
the bed in frustration) when he would have rather played video games
the night before?

If he feels he's being unfairly controlled, he might be trying to
unfairly-control back. If he tried those behaviors back, like "you
need to get off the couch I want to sit on," and the response was
(basically) I don't care what you want, then maybe in his head, in
his scoring system, that was ANOTHER instance of him losing and you
winning.

Others have made great suggestions about being his safe place, his
support. Be his partner. What he wants to do, you should be
helping him do, and if you really do that for a long time,
consistently, and sweetly and generously, he won't want to sit on a
couch in anger without you.

It won't happen in a few days. It won't happen in a week.

It won't happen at all if you keep "giving up" and changing the plan
and he keeps feeling powerless.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My high energy boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the video game play. It made sense to me

*****
Would it make the same sense if his 'inside/non-active' time was spent reading or playing with Legos? Or is this more about her bias against video games? The whole 'delay TV/video games, and exclude 'bad' food' is a very common ideal in LLL (speaking as a former leader myself). It's always bothered me that, when babies are small, LLL and AP folks are all about 'following the child's cues' but somewhere around 2 or 3yo (when kids are very self-determined) it becomes all about parents controlling and preventing 'bad influences.' Why is it they can trust the cues of a newborn, but not a 2yo?

Sylvia


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

halfshadow1

-He goes to bed/ wakes when he wants,eats,plays but your right, I have
told him to"get up, I want to sit there" I'm seeing it now Sandra.--
In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> ><<<< A few moments
> > > later son wants to sit on the couch but wants me off,demands i
> get off
> > > the couch! I tell him i just sat down and he can sit next to me.
> Again
> > > an instant fit! >>>
>
>
>
> This part came back to my thoughts too.
>
> Very often the problems people bring to the list aren't the real
> problem. What happened before he sat on the couch or before that, or
> before that? Was he made to wake up when he hadn't slept long
> enough? Had he been made to go to sleep (or rather made to lie in
> the bed in frustration) when he would have rather played video games
> the night before?
>
> If he feels he's being unfairly controlled, he might be trying to
> unfairly-control back. If he tried those behaviors back, like "you
> need to get off the couch I want to sit on," and the response was
> (basically) I don't care what you want, then maybe in his head, in
> his scoring system, that was ANOTHER instance of him losing and you
> winning.
>
> Others have made great suggestions about being his safe place, his
> support. Be his partner. What he wants to do, you should be
> helping him do, and if you really do that for a long time,
> consistently, and sweetly and generously, he won't want to sit on a
> couch in anger without you.
>
> It won't happen in a few days. It won't happen in a week.
>
> It won't happen at all if you keep "giving up" and changing the plan
> and he keeps feeling powerless.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

halfshadow1

-I keep going back to read this post. I just read it out loud to my
Husband. Boy, that was hard without tearing up. I am not going to have
Lukas evaluated!!!! I still have a problem with the videos games. The
words about power,control are swishing through my head but my mind is
also telling me that he is playing with me again, asking me to read
books too. It will be hard to hand the DS over to DS <g>-- In
[email protected], "Robyn L. Coburn" <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<< Maybe a counsulor
> > could give me tools to work with? Help me understand what going on and
> > why? >>>>
>
> Maybe.
>
> More likely if the counsellor understands unschooling.
>
> Or maybe tools to change who your son is meant to be if they are a
> mainstream person invested in school think. Risk assessment needed. You
> don't need our permission, you know. People have stories of positive
> experiences, and negative ones. Try searching archives.
>
> Unschoolers *definitely* can give you tools to work with that can
help you
> be an Unschooling mindful parent.
>
> What is most likely going on is that your son is six, spirited, free
and
> loved.
>
> Our free little children don't look like controlled, molded, shamed,
> rewarded/punished, directed little children. They often look wild,
fearless,
> determined, raw. Sometimes they look too big for a controlled,
disciplined,
> "proper" society. They experiment. They feel and express themselves,
> including their negative emotions.
>
> Then suddenly, like a miracle that we don't notice until after it is
> accomplished - like the peach tree suddenly being covered in blooms
- our
> wild, difficult, outspoken little children, are creative, open,
thoughtful,
> outspoken yet courteous, loving, acceptant and tolerant, self-aware and
> optimistic teenagers and young adults. They aren't secretly self
> destructive, or strangers to their parents.
>
> <<<< She said his behaviour is not apropriate(sp) that it's verbal
> abuse and when you go out people don't treat each other like that.>>>
>
> See I think this is a *very* mainstream judgmental attitude, and is
probably
> not helping your serenity. If you choose to label your son as an
"abuser" it
> is so much harder to be compassionate to him. We can choose the
descriptors
> we use. Your son is 6 and struggling and probably feels powerless.
He is not
> an adult with power abusing you. Perhaps he needs more help than a
child to
> whom social niceties come easily. Maybe he needs not to be taken to
places
> that trigger his behavior or spark fears. Sometimes it is something as
> simple as flickering neon lights. (In Jayn's case, big echoey
places, big
> dark places.)
>
> Certainly there is a time to explain that people shouldn't treat
each other
> badly. That time is not in the middle of a meltdown. But it is also
> important to consider what is possible and achievable for any
individual
> child's development level. Constantly expecting more from him than
he can
> truly give will only make him feel worse about himself.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I still have a problem with the videos games. The
words about power,control are swishing through my head but my mind is
also telling me that he is playing with me again, asking me to read
books too. -=-

http://sandradodd.com/respect

http://sandradodd.com/control

PLEASE don't quit where you are. Having words swishing through your
head won't solve your problem.

-=-It will be hard to hand the DS over to DS -=-

This is very clear evidence that you feel ownership and control, and
feel that your option is to let HIM have ownership and control.

Work and live and be together, facing the same direction, cooperatively.

-=- The words about power, control are swishing through my head but
my mind is also telling me that he is playing with me again, asking
me to read books too.-=-

Here's some analysis of what you chose to share.

"my head," "my mind," "me" and "me."

You're writing about what's happening with you. I think you're
listening to what's swishing through your head, still, instead of
looking at your son and really listening to him.

Sandra








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wisdomalways5

What would your son rather be doing with his time? How can you help
him accomplish what he really wants to be doing? Maybe since you
started controlling him more he is acting out more.

Sometimes when I am tired and in a controlling parent mood I think
how nice it would be to give out orders and have the children follow
them- I mean so much less work on MY part- but then I remember what
they were like before and decide I do not want those kids back.

Stop talking to a friend who wants you to conventionally parent- in
fact whatever she tells you you do the opposite- that way you will
know you are un the unschooly path. Stop talking to her about your
issues with your son-- talk about anything except the child.

Really listen to him and ask him what he wants or needs you to do
and then do it. Tell people who think you are indulging him that the
more you are taken care of the more you can in turn take care of.
The more you are listened to the more you can listen, the more you
are heard and respected the more you can respect someone else.

Julie


Julie



--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1"
<halfshadow1@...> wrote:
>
> -I should know better as an unschooler buti think what happened is
i
> listened to that friend when I was stressed and she said stuff that
> made sense to me but not for my son.Like she said he'll start
playing
> with his toys again, which he is. -- In
> [email protected], "Chris" <spunkyhorsey@> wrote:
> >
> > There is so much good advice on this thread I just wanted to
give an
> > opinion about this one point - it is something that took me a
long
> > time to come to understand.
> >
> > "I agree with that but it is really good for him to play all
day?"
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > "I let him play for months thinking he would take an interest in
other
> > things but he didn't."
> >
> > I have come to believe that our children can sense when we
> > are "letting" them do "xyz" (in this case games) while secretly
> > hoping they will do something we feel is more worthwile. They
know
> > there is no true acceptance of their choice - parent is
tolerating
> > but displeased with their choice. Perhaps this could be
damaging
> > sons trust in you, undermining his sense of security and further
> > complicating the rage and frustration issues.
> >
> > My heart goes out to you, I can see you are trying and I hope
you are
> > able to find peace. There is so much to learn here, keep reading.
> >
> > Namaste,
> > Chris
> >
>

wisdomalways5

my high energy girls get TIRED from trying to master a new computer
game----- using brain cells can be just as tiring as using physical
cells. Does he have to option to do both?



--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
wrote:
>
> and because when he played outside he got TIRED! My high energy
boy got tired. She said yeah,he's weak...because of the video game
play. It made sense to me
>
> *****
> Would it make the same sense if his 'inside/non-active' time was
spent reading or playing with Legos? Or is this more about her bias
against video games? The whole 'delay TV/video games, and
exclude 'bad' food' is a very common ideal in LLL (speaking as a
former leader myself). It's always bothered me that, when babies
are small, LLL and AP folks are all about 'following the child's
cues' but somewhere around 2 or 3yo (when kids are very self-
determined) it becomes all about parents controlling and
preventing 'bad influences.' Why is it they can trust the cues of a
newborn, but not a 2yo?
>
> Sylvia
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>