Leidloff? (?? for Schuyler)
Laureen
Heya
On Jan 21, 2008 12:37 AM, ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into so much
online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be offbalance
somehow.
--
~~L!
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Sailing here:
s/v Excellent Adventure
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/
Publishing here:
http://huntpress.com/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Jan 21, 2008 12:37 AM, ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
> One of my favorite books, my cleansing book after trying to read Leidloff,I don't think I've run into your opinions of Leidloff before, and I'd love
> is Meredith Small's book Our babies, Ourselves which is a nice review of the
> literature on infant care.
>
to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into so much
online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be offbalance
somehow.
--
~~L!
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Sailing here:
s/v Excellent Adventure
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/
Publishing here:
http://huntpress.com/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't think I've run into your opinions of Leidloff before, and
I'd love
to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into
so much
online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be offbalance
somehow.-=-
Schuyler will probably come along here, but I wanted to say that
whether it's a perfect book or not, it was a POWERFUL set of ideas
that let people look at things in a whole new way.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd love
to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into
so much
online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be offbalance
somehow.-=-
Schuyler will probably come along here, but I wanted to say that
whether it's a perfect book or not, it was a POWERFUL set of ideas
that let people look at things in a whole new way.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lara Miller
Are you talking about "A Practical Continuum"? I will have to look
into that.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently in Sunny Bradenton, FL!
http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
into that.
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently in Sunny Bradenton, FL!
http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Jan 21, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> -=-I don't think I've run into your opinions of Leidloff before, and
> I'd love
> to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into
> so much
> online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be
> offbalance
> somehow.-=-
>
> Schuyler will probably come along here, but I wanted to say that
> whether it's a perfect book or not, it was a POWERFUL set of ideas
> that let people look at things in a whole new way.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Are you talking about "A Practical Continuum"? I will have to look
into that.-=-
"The Continuum Concept," I think is meant.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
into that.-=-
"The Continuum Concept," I think is meant.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lara Miller
Okay, I have been poking around on Amazon and plan on getting a
copy. I just finished reading "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn and it poses
some similar questions and thoughts I believe, although his book has
more to do with all mankind and not so much the parent/child
relationship. Interesting stuff to think about. Ishmael really
stretched my brain a bit!
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently in Sunny Bradenton, FL!
http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
copy. I just finished reading "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn and it poses
some similar questions and thoughts I believe, although his book has
more to do with all mankind and not so much the parent/child
relationship. Interesting stuff to think about. Ishmael really
stretched my brain a bit!
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently in Sunny Bradenton, FL!
http://www.mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "The Continuum Concept," I think is meant.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
I haven't read all of the book. I got maybe a couple of chapters into it before it just felt too awful for me to read. I am sure that Sandra is right, I am sure that she is talking about ideas that needed to be talked about. My problem was that she was treating the Yekwana in a racist way. She set them up as something better than human, something simpler and more natural than human. Somehow removed from all the evil and nastiness that the rest of us more complicated folk live in. Ray Hames, who worked with the Yekwana, has a wonderful site on them, or he used to, at his pages at UNL (ah, he does still have it http://www.unl.edu/rhames/). Actually, looking over at Ray's pages he has a recent paper on the noble savage idea as expressed in regards to sustainable development (http://www.unl.edu/rhames/ms/savage-prepub.pdf\). They are just folk. They have this horrible master/slave relationship with the Yananomo, they aren't always nice, they aren't more
altruistic than anybody else.
That was what kept me from reading the Continuum Concept. That was why when I bought it I added to my amazon order a book by an evolutionary ecologist. I suppose one of my other problems is that it sets up a real sense of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another world, another life would be a better one. Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Laureen <splashing@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2008 4:10:02 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Leidloff? (?? for Schuyler)
Heya
On Jan 21, 2008 12:37 AM, ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into so much
online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be offbalance
somehow.
--
~~L!
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Sailing here:
s/v Excellent Adventure
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/
Publishing here:
http://huntpress.com/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
altruistic than anybody else.
That was what kept me from reading the Continuum Concept. That was why when I bought it I added to my amazon order a book by an evolutionary ecologist. I suppose one of my other problems is that it sets up a real sense of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another world, another life would be a better one. Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Laureen <splashing@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2008 4:10:02 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Leidloff? (?? for Schuyler)
Heya
On Jan 21, 2008 12:37 AM, ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
> One of my favorite books, my cleansing book after trying to read Leidloff,I don't think I've run into your opinions of Leidloff before, and I'd love
> is Meredith Small's book Our babies, Ourselves which is a nice review of the
> literature on infant care.
>
to hear them. I had my own struggles with the book, but you run into so much
online about what a fabulous book it is, I thought I must be offbalance
somehow.
--
~~L!
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Sailing here:
s/v Excellent Adventure
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/
Publishing here:
http://huntpress.com/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I suppose one of my other problems is that it sets up a real sense
of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another
world, another life would be a better one.-=-
I think the useful thing people took from it (what La Leche League
seems to have liked most about it) is that children learn from being
with adults and seeing what adults do, not from being segregated away
in nursery schools and then all six year olds together in first
grade, etc.
What she said that wasn't as fun for me was that children shouldn't
have any specifically kid stuff. But that's okay. I'm perfectly
courageous about taking what I like and leaving the rest. <g>
-=-Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more
close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I
love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having
pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter. -=-
I think if you let your kids on the internet too and they know how
the beans got into your house (at least where the market is and how
it works to exchange money or plastic credit for beans, you're
fulfilling some continuum hope.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another
world, another life would be a better one.-=-
I think the useful thing people took from it (what La Leche League
seems to have liked most about it) is that children learn from being
with adults and seeing what adults do, not from being segregated away
in nursery schools and then all six year olds together in first
grade, etc.
What she said that wasn't as fun for me was that children shouldn't
have any specifically kid stuff. But that's okay. I'm perfectly
courageous about taking what I like and leaving the rest. <g>
-=-Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more
close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I
love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having
pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter. -=-
I think if you let your kids on the internet too and they know how
the beans got into your house (at least where the market is and how
it works to exchange money or plastic credit for beans, you're
fulfilling some continuum hope.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melidi7
Hi,
I expect I should be introducing myself, as I havent yet!
my name is melissa and I am mother to 7 children, 2 years thru 20--
dh is Lorenzo and weve been together since 1986. I read the continuum concept when I
was 23, after having read The magical Child by Joseph chilton pearce while I was pregnant
with Lucia my dd1 in Japan.
These two books together sort of gave me a much needed braintwisting that had already
begun thru the travelings lorenzo and I were living...
what I got the most from TCC was how children are in effect always learning. And that
life can be coming from a joyful point of view. That there can be this simple shift of
presence (interior) and the whole world looks differently. Somehow, I did not come away
with this racist feeling but rather I had an idea that these people were just very accepting
of one another, non coercive *within their tribe* at least, and joyful. Living life joyfully.
and that childrens right place is among adults, living life fully. From birth.
so this is how I made it so far and while I have made many mistakes and expect I will
continue to do so, I did a major learning curve reading that book. It changed my life, I
expect and there fore changed the lives of my children. and rereading it still can make me
think and expand.
this does not mean I find everything JL believes and writes to be gold. I actually find some
things to be quite offputting, and non sensical--when one has had 7 children, one is
forced to open ones eyes, sooner or later.
Jl has not had any children.
anyway, I really am enjoying this list.
I have never sent my childrne to preschool. here in italy school starts in september of the
childs 6th year. Dd1(20y) is finished with school, dd 2(17y) is in her 3rd year of
highschool (here there are 5 years) ...ds3(13.75y) is in 8thgrade and ds4 is 10yrs and in
5th. I only found out last fall that I could homeschool. And dd5 (7yrs) is home
unschooling since December 2006. I would like to have ds4 and ds4 home but ds3 wants
to go, and ds4 vacilates back and forth.
so here I am , one foot in and one foot out. My personal parenting style is unschooling as
far as I can see...and yet we school. thankfully here in italy school days are only half days
with one re entry per week. My children can stay home when ever they like...and we never
fight about doing homework though unfortunately there is some stressing at times for
them.
Right now things are smoother than a few months ago--ds3 has major upset that his
sister stays at home...hes moving into acceptance but for some time there he was really
making her pay for this.
This causes me considerable pain at times, as I feel I have shoved a wedge in our home
that other wise was not there...well, really the wedge was there, it was in my dd5s heart--
she really suffered being in her little mountain school.
anyway, its late and Im starting to ramble.
hope tacking on my intro is ok. its hard to find time to write!
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
ps I dont remember this paart about kids not having "kids stuff" --the yequana children
had toys that led to their skills for adulthood yet they also had plenty of imaginary and
other play and I expect toys or games as well that were just for fun (other indigenous
cultures do)--though maybe to her western eye the sticks and stones may not have had
anymeaning...
I expect I should be introducing myself, as I havent yet!
my name is melissa and I am mother to 7 children, 2 years thru 20--
dh is Lorenzo and weve been together since 1986. I read the continuum concept when I
was 23, after having read The magical Child by Joseph chilton pearce while I was pregnant
with Lucia my dd1 in Japan.
These two books together sort of gave me a much needed braintwisting that had already
begun thru the travelings lorenzo and I were living...
what I got the most from TCC was how children are in effect always learning. And that
life can be coming from a joyful point of view. That there can be this simple shift of
presence (interior) and the whole world looks differently. Somehow, I did not come away
with this racist feeling but rather I had an idea that these people were just very accepting
of one another, non coercive *within their tribe* at least, and joyful. Living life joyfully.
and that childrens right place is among adults, living life fully. From birth.
so this is how I made it so far and while I have made many mistakes and expect I will
continue to do so, I did a major learning curve reading that book. It changed my life, I
expect and there fore changed the lives of my children. and rereading it still can make me
think and expand.
this does not mean I find everything JL believes and writes to be gold. I actually find some
things to be quite offputting, and non sensical--when one has had 7 children, one is
forced to open ones eyes, sooner or later.
Jl has not had any children.
anyway, I really am enjoying this list.
I have never sent my childrne to preschool. here in italy school starts in september of the
childs 6th year. Dd1(20y) is finished with school, dd 2(17y) is in her 3rd year of
highschool (here there are 5 years) ...ds3(13.75y) is in 8thgrade and ds4 is 10yrs and in
5th. I only found out last fall that I could homeschool. And dd5 (7yrs) is home
unschooling since December 2006. I would like to have ds4 and ds4 home but ds3 wants
to go, and ds4 vacilates back and forth.
so here I am , one foot in and one foot out. My personal parenting style is unschooling as
far as I can see...and yet we school. thankfully here in italy school days are only half days
with one re entry per week. My children can stay home when ever they like...and we never
fight about doing homework though unfortunately there is some stressing at times for
them.
Right now things are smoother than a few months ago--ds3 has major upset that his
sister stays at home...hes moving into acceptance but for some time there he was really
making her pay for this.
This causes me considerable pain at times, as I feel I have shoved a wedge in our home
that other wise was not there...well, really the wedge was there, it was in my dd5s heart--
she really suffered being in her little mountain school.
anyway, its late and Im starting to ramble.
hope tacking on my intro is ok. its hard to find time to write!
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
ps I dont remember this paart about kids not having "kids stuff" --the yequana children
had toys that led to their skills for adulthood yet they also had plenty of imaginary and
other play and I expect toys or games as well that were just for fun (other indigenous
cultures do)--though maybe to her western eye the sticks and stones may not have had
anymeaning...
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I suppose one of my other problems is that it sets up a real sense
> of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another
> world, another life would be a better one.-=-
>
> I think the useful thing people took from it (what La Leche League
> seems to have liked most about it) is that children learn from being
> with adults and seeing what adults do, not from being segregated away
> in nursery schools and then all six year olds together in first
> grade, etc.
>
> What she said that wasn't as fun for me was that children shouldn't
> have any specifically kid stuff. But that's okay. I'm perfectly
> courageous about taking what I like and leaving the rest. <g>
>
> -=-Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more
> close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I
> love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having
> pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter. -=-
>
> I think if you let your kids on the internet too and they know how
> the beans got into your house (at least where the market is and how
> it works to exchange money or plastic credit for beans, you're
> fulfilling some continuum hope.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-ps I dont remember this paart about kids not having "kids stuff" --
the yequana children
had toys that led to their skills for adulthood yet they also had
plenty of imaginary and
other play and I expect toys or games as well that were just for fun
(other indigenous
cultures do)--though maybe to her western eye the sticks and stones
may not have had
anymeaning...-=-
I think it was not against toy versions of adult things, but of a
separate kid of kid-world of stuff that was just for kids, and that
kept kids separate. I'd have to look again, or maybe someone here
has read it more recently.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the yequana children
had toys that led to their skills for adulthood yet they also had
plenty of imaginary and
other play and I expect toys or games as well that were just for fun
(other indigenous
cultures do)--though maybe to her western eye the sticks and stones
may not have had
anymeaning...-=-
I think it was not against toy versions of adult things, but of a
separate kid of kid-world of stuff that was just for kids, and that
kept kids separate. I'd have to look again, or maybe someone here
has read it more recently.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meghan Anderson-Coates
*********
Schuyler will probably come along here, but I wanted to say that
whether it's a perfect book or not, it was a POWERFUL set of ideas
that let people look at things in a whole new way.
Sandra
*********
Yes, this is the book that started me on the path to natural/organic parenting and unschooling. I read it when I was pregnant, and it confirmed many of the ideas and feelings I had about parenting. It was a pivotal book for me.
Meghan
I can create what I can imagine. ~ Charlene Kingston
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler will probably come along here, but I wanted to say that
whether it's a perfect book or not, it was a POWERFUL set of ideas
that let people look at things in a whole new way.
Sandra
*********
Yes, this is the book that started me on the path to natural/organic parenting and unschooling. I read it when I was pregnant, and it confirmed many of the ideas and feelings I had about parenting. It was a pivotal book for me.
Meghan
I can create what I can imagine. ~ Charlene Kingston
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meghan Anderson-Coates
*********
I suppose one of my other problems is that it sets up a real sense of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another world, another life would be a better one. Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
***********
Hmm, I never thought of it that way before.
It gave me what I needed to take 'natural' parenting and integrate it into our lives in the modern world. I didn't feel any dissatisfaction with our 'modern' life though after reading it. It was 14 years ago when I read it, so I think I'd like to reread it and see what I get from it now.
I have always read books in such a way that I take what applies and leave the rest. I guess it's editing as I read, or reading between the lines?
Meghan
I can create what I can imagine. ~ Charlene Kingston
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I suppose one of my other problems is that it sets up a real sense of dissatisfaction with the world we live in, a sense that another world, another life would be a better one. Or that we aren't as good as we could be if we lived a life more close to the life we had 10,000 years ago, before agriculture. But I love the internet, and I love the immediacy of my life. I love having pinto beans for dinner in the UK in the middle of winter.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
***********
Hmm, I never thought of it that way before.
It gave me what I needed to take 'natural' parenting and integrate it into our lives in the modern world. I didn't feel any dissatisfaction with our 'modern' life though after reading it. It was 14 years ago when I read it, so I think I'd like to reread it and see what I get from it now.
I have always read books in such a way that I take what applies and leave the rest. I guess it's editing as I read, or reading between the lines?
Meghan
I can create what I can imagine. ~ Charlene Kingston
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have always read books in such a way that I take what applies
and leave the rest. I guess it's editing as I read, or reading
between the lines?-=-
It's learning. I think it's taking in those parts that fit with what
you know and that amend it in desireable ways, and ignoring the parts
that don't fit into the model of the universe you have in your mind.
A young (irritating) friend of mine wrote recently that he is bored
by most movies and only likes those that are profound.
Huh!
If he can watch a movie and not have any profound thoughts, that's
HIS problem!!
There are some movies that intend to induce profound thoughts.
The Truman Show
Bedazzled
The Matrix
Last Action Hero
Groundhog Day
About a Boy
Juno
But there are movies that, on the surface, seem just a story. Yet
someone might have their most epiphanous, illuminating moment EVER
from something that seems kind of goofy or "just for fun." Movies
that have done that for me lately are "Idiocracy" and "Music and
Lyrics."
Ditto all that with books. If the reader gets a new, life-changing
idea from a book it doesn't make any earthly difference whether that
book was philosophy, porn, humor or all three in one.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and leave the rest. I guess it's editing as I read, or reading
between the lines?-=-
It's learning. I think it's taking in those parts that fit with what
you know and that amend it in desireable ways, and ignoring the parts
that don't fit into the model of the universe you have in your mind.
A young (irritating) friend of mine wrote recently that he is bored
by most movies and only likes those that are profound.
Huh!
If he can watch a movie and not have any profound thoughts, that's
HIS problem!!
There are some movies that intend to induce profound thoughts.
The Truman Show
Bedazzled
The Matrix
Last Action Hero
Groundhog Day
About a Boy
Juno
But there are movies that, on the surface, seem just a story. Yet
someone might have their most epiphanous, illuminating moment EVER
from something that seems kind of goofy or "just for fun." Movies
that have done that for me lately are "Idiocracy" and "Music and
Lyrics."
Ditto all that with books. If the reader gets a new, life-changing
idea from a book it doesn't make any earthly difference whether that
book was philosophy, porn, humor or all three in one.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lara Miller
"take the meat and leave the bones" is a favorite saying of mine.
Funny since I am a vegeterian. ;)
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently in sunny Florida!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
Funny since I am a vegeterian. ;)
Blessings,
Lara Miller
Currently in sunny Florida!
http://mytripjournal.com/millerfamily
On Jan 22, 2008, at 3:25 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-I have always read books in such a way that I take what applies
> and leave the rest. I guess it's editing as I read, or reading
> between the lines?-=-
>
> It's learning. I think it's taking in those parts that fit with what
> you know and that amend it in desireable ways,
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-"take the meat and leave the bones" is a favorite saying of mine.
Funny since I am a vegeterian. ;)-=-
I don't guess "take the leaves and leave the stem" quite cuts it...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Funny since I am a vegeterian. ;)-=-
I don't guess "take the leaves and leave the stem" quite cuts it...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]