Tami

Okay, you all were sooo wonderful offering advice on my son and his introverted nature
and shyness...I'm hoping you might also have suggestions on this new phase he's going
thru...

For the past two weeks, my 5 yr old son is having *major* clothing issues. He says every
pair of pants and/or underwear hurts him. I've looked all over his lower body and cannot
find ANYTHING that would cause the clothes to be uncomfortable - no rashes, bruises,
scratches, bumps - NOTHING. And yet trying to get him into a clean pair of underwear
and/or pants can take up to an hour and involves a lot of crying, whining, etc. (on both
our parts).

I really believe this is all in his head, because once I can get him into a pair of pants or
pajama bottoms and he wears it for a little while, he is fine and then doesn't want to
change out of them into anything else. I've given up on trying to get him dressed and am
just letting him wear his pajamas every day and night. But...he needs to at least change
his underwear (yes - he *does* need to!). I have no problem with taking him out in his
pajamas, but HE does. He doesn't want to leave the house, because he's embarrased
about wearing his pajamas, but there is no one at home to leave him with, and I have
responsibilites outside the house that need to be met. Plus, after several days, his
pajamas are very dirty and need to be washed...

Has anyone dealt with something similar? I'm trying hard to be sensitive to whatever this
is that he's going thru - being willing to take my kids out in pajamas is a *huge* step for
me, as is letting him wear pajamas day in and day out. But I don't know what else to do.

Thanks!
Tami

Sandra Dodd

This isn't off topic. He's learning how to be comfortable and have
his needs met, and you're learning that not all parenting goes easily.

Even if it is "in his head," that's his head. That's the head he
uses to love you, and to learn, and to decide whether he wants to
continue to be in the world. Cooperate with whatever's in his head
and respect it.

You're looking on him instead of on the clothes. I have to take ALL
tags out of my clothes. I rarely wear new clothes without washing
them first. Maybe you're using a fabric softener that's irritating
to him. Downy is wonderful for some kids and painful for others.

What else has changed in the past two weeks? Did you change
detergent? Are you drying things on the line instead of in a dryer?

-=-. I have no problem with taking him out in his
pajamas, but HE does.-=-

Maybe you can find "lounge pants" that are flannel but not pajama-
print. Kirby went through a long phase of not wanting to wear
anything like jeans, so he wore cotton sweatpants and sweatshirts,
day and night, for a couple of years. In the summer, lighter version
of same.

-=-Has anyone dealt with something similar? -=-

Most parents have, I think.

-=-I'm trying hard to be sensitive to whatever this is that he's
going thru --=-

It may not be something he's "going through" so much as something
that has changed in his environment or has changed in him.

Kids who are distracted or uncomfortable or unhappy or embarrassed
can't learn. He needs to be comfortable for learning to happen, so
it's very ON topic for unschooling.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vicki Dennis

Excuse me if I sound curt but I am just dashing this off in the few moments
I have.

1. Dump the "pajamas". Have him sleep in pajama-like clothing that is also
conventional for leaving the house. Sweatpants for cool weather, and what
we called "boxer" shorts (not the underwear, just elastic waist simple
design) in warm weather.

2. Remove tags/labels, etc. Also look for clothing with "flat-face" seams.

3. Underwear comes in more "styles" these days and I am not completely
familiar with what is available for the younger set. My grown sons wear
boxers or boxer briefs but only the kind where the elastic waist is
completely enclosed in fabric. They do not like the feel of "bare"
elastic. If he is wearing "tighty-whities" then you might look for
larger sizes.

4. Be sure you are using a perfume free, "non-allergenic" detergent in your
laundry. Double rinsing wouldn't hurt either. And no fabric softeners in
laundry or dryer sheets in dryer.

Being okay after having clothes on a while doesn't necessarily mean "it's
all in his head". Could be that the irritant dissipates or the fabric
softens after a while.

vicki--who still remembers her own childhood underwear issues and whose
first son did not wear blue jeans until he was 7 or 8 years old.



On 1/19/08, Tami <Tamicamp@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, you all were sooo wonderful offering advice on my son and his
> introverted nature
> and shyness...I'm hoping you might also have suggestions on this new phase
> he's going
> thru...
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laureen

Heya!

On Jan 19, 2008 6:33 AM, Tami <Tamicamp@...> wrote:

> For the past two weeks, my 5 yr old son is having *major* clothing issues.
> He says every
> pair of pants and/or underwear hurts him. I've looked all over his lower
> body and cannot
> find ANYTHING that would cause the clothes to be uncomfortable - no
> rashes, bruises,
> scratches, bumps - NOTHING. And yet trying to get him into a clean pair
> of underwear
> and/or pants can take up to an hour and involves a lot of crying, whining,
> etc. (on both
> our parts).


Oh yeah. We did this when Rowan was more like 3, but yeah, I remember it
well. =)

>
>
> I really believe this is all in his head,


woah. where else would it be?


> because once I can get him into a pair of pants or
> pajama bottoms and he wears it for a little while, he is fine and then
> doesn't want to
> change out of them into anything else. I've given up on trying to get him
> dressed and am
> just letting him wear his pajamas every day and night. But...he needs to
> at least change
> his underwear (yes - he *does* need to!). I have no problem with taking
> him out in his
> pajamas, but HE does. He doesn't want to leave the house, because he's
> embarrased
> about wearing his pajamas, but there is no one at home to leave him with,
> and I have
> responsibilites outside the house that need to be met. Plus, after
> several days, his
> pajamas are very dirty and need to be washed...


You're focusing on all the outside stuff. Ignore all that, it doesn't
matter. What matters is that he's having a CLEAR feeling, and if you start
teaching him to ignore those feelings for expediency, that's not a real good
direction to go.

>
>
> Has anyone dealt with something similar? I'm trying hard to be sensitive
> to whatever this
> is that he's going thru -


For Rowan, specifically (not saying this is true of any other kid, just
mine), he had sensory issues that came and went. Kinda like how your body
feels not-quite-like-home during a sudden weight change or growth spurt,
until your brain figures out where your balance and your extremities are? So
we did the same things with him that I did to deal with it when I was
pregnant... we did a lot of skin brushing (basically just gently stroking
the skin with a soft brush, which feels really good and reminds your nerves
where your skin is), lots of time soaking in the tub, and some
cranial-sacral adjustments (to make sure all the bits are communicating
ideally with all the other bits; if you have a nerve pinch or restriction or
something, your body can give you weird messages about itself). Every time
he'd have a big growth spurt, the sensitivity thing would re-emerge, and
we'd go through the routine. Interestingly, he's figured out at this point
that doing yoga with me seems to also help him re-establish coordination
when he's just changed shape really fast.

That's not to say that there aren't types of clothing he hates. He's super
sensitive to the smallest amount of wool content, and what the heck is it
about people who make kids clothes with those huge hunkin irritating sharp
tags in them??? He mostly lives in fleece sweats and cotton t-shirts and
cotton socks, to sleep in and to play in.

HTH!


--
~~L!

~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Sailing here:
s/v Excellent Adventure

Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com/

Publishing here:
http://huntpress.com/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

My 5 year old only wears seat pants, no tags, no underwear, special seamless socks and he picks his colors. He was even more sensitive when younger and have gone out many times in his pajamas in the past 2 years.
We always try to find him what works for him. I can understand him because I am very sensitive to clothes too. Tags can drive me insane.
We also use no fabric softener and our clothes are pretty soft but not itchy.
Try sweat pants, tag less shirts and what is the problem if he does not wear underwear?? Many men don't. (by the way my DH does)
Alex


My 5 year old


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

I think some kids are more sensitive to the feel of clothing- my
girls are 5 and 3 and they mostly spend the day in their underwear
though when visitors come over they bolt to the bedroom to get
clothes on. When we go out they pick whatever they want to wear- if
it is early morning we usually go in pj's- to church no less and
people always comment but it is a come as you are church so really
no big deal- there are a few more showing up with pj's though.

As much as possible let him wear what he wants to. Discuss that if
he has stuff in his underwear it starts to stink or makes him sore
or somthing and that changing those are a good idea.

My 3 yr old will want to wear a peed in pair of undies if she thinks
there are no more- when I explain that they are in the dryer she is
more than happy to change.

She is also the one who picks two different shoes to go out in which
gave me pause and drives grandma crazy but that is what she wants

Let go of how he is dressed being a reflection of who you are as a
parent and it get easier.

Maybe if he knows you will let him put them back on he will let you
wash them or get 5 pairs to the ones he loves.


--- In [email protected], "Tami " <Tamicamp@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, you all were sooo wonderful offering advice on my son and
his introverted nature
> and shyness...I'm hoping you might also have suggestions on this
new phase he's going
> thru...
>
> For the past two weeks, my 5 yr old son is having *major* clothing
issues. He says every
> pair of pants and/or underwear hurts him. I've looked all over
his lower body and cannot
> find ANYTHING that would cause the clothes to be uncomfortable -
no rashes, bruises,
> scratches, bumps - NOTHING. And yet trying to get him into a
clean pair of underwear
> and/or pants can take up to an hour and involves a lot of crying,
whining, etc. (on both
> our parts).
>
> I really believe this is all in his head, because once I can get
him into a pair of pants or
> pajama bottoms and he wears it for a little while, he is fine and
then doesn't want to
> change out of them into anything else. I've given up on trying to
get him dressed and am
> just letting him wear his pajamas every day and night. But...he
needs to at least change
> his underwear (yes - he *does* need to!). I have no problem with
taking him out in his
> pajamas, but HE does. He doesn't want to leave the house, because
he's embarrased
> about wearing his pajamas, but there is no one at home to leave
him with, and I have
> responsibilites outside the house that need to be met. Plus,
after several days, his
> pajamas are very dirty and need to be washed...
>
> Has anyone dealt with something similar? I'm trying hard to be
sensitive to whatever this
> is that he's going thru - being willing to take my kids out in
pajamas is a *huge* step for
> me, as is letting him wear pajamas day in and day out. But I
don't know what else to do.
>
> Thanks!
> Tami
>

Deb Lewis

***my 5 yr old son is having *major* clothing issues. ****

Stop thinking of this as "major." It is what it is.

***He says every
pair of pants and/or underwear hurts him.***

***I really believe this is all in his head, ***

Probably not. My kid was like this and later we found out he has psoriasis. Maybe the one thing had nothing to do with the other and maybe it did. You're kid probably doesn't have psoriasis but just because you don't understand what he's feeling or see any reason for him to feel that way doesn't mean what he's feeling is imaginary. If he says the clothes bug him, believe him.

I bring up the psoriasis because I get especially peeved when parents start talking about sensory this or that disorders when kids don't like clothing seams or certain textures of fabric or foods or whatever. There might be lots of reasons clothes and textures bug kids, it doesn't mean they're "disordered." We forget what it's like to be new to wearing clothes. We've been in them for years but kids are new to this and getting used to how things feel is done on the learners individual schedule same as learning to eat with a spoon and learning to use the potty and learning to read or ride a bike. Stop thinking of this as some problem or defect and you'll all feel better. Help him be comfortable. If you've ever had an uncomfortable bra think how irritated you'd be if someone said it was all in your head.

*** But I don't know what else to do.***

Try flannel pants inside out. Sweatpants inside out with the leg elastic cut. Socks inside out. Shirts inside out. Try clothes a size too big, inside out Try boxers or no underwear at all, sometimes those multiple layers rub or bunch or flap and feel weird. Don't let clothes get even a little snug. Clothes that are getting a little tight rub and constrict. Some people can ignore that and some can't. Go with big, loose, inside out.

Dylan was very sensitive about his clothes but somewhere along about seven or eight years old he gradually became more comfortable and started wearing clothes right side out.

Deb Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vicki Dennis

**slapping head*** I don't know why inside out everything didn't occur to
me when it would have been sooooooooooo helpful. Could have saved time in
looking for clothes with "finished" seams. I don't sew (more than very
minor repairs) so I was not able to utilize my mother's solution of making
most of my clothes and "flat-facing" the seams. Even as a young child I
was very appreciative of her willingness to expend the effort to keep me
comfortable.

Loose is an important suggestion. Also for "bottoms" it sometimes helps to
have overalls or coveralls so that there is nothing suspended from the
waist. Jeans may be tight all over as well as stiff and sweatpants are an
improvement but can still be irritating. "Sagging" pants is not always
just a fashion statement, it can be more comfortable. Overalls can keep
the belly warm without irritating the waist and still allow plenty of
freedom of movement so that squatting, etc. is comfortable.

I was thrilled when tagless t-shirts came out. The downside of cutting out
tags (besides leaving a rough strip or holes in the neck binding if not done
very carefully) was losing the size marking. Laundry markers or even
permanent sharpies will last for dozens of launderings. Marking the size
instead of the owner's name or initial works better when items are "passed
down" or shared. But the tagless shirts were absolutely best, the size
marking stays visible with no maintenance and for longer than even if the
tag were left on. I had teens by the time they were introduced in adult
sizes. Do they come in small children's sizes now? Are they available
on more than sports uniforms, tshirts, or tank tops?

Your comment about multiple layers made me think of something we used to
say................it was from a movie or book or something, I'll bet
Sandra can pull up the source!. Had to do with knit briefs becoming
popular (before the day of boxer briefs....anyone remember when boxers did
not have elastic waists?) and calling boxers "Indian Drawers". Some boys
preferred tighty whities to boxers because the boxers tend to "sneak up on
you". Very politically incorrect language but one of those shorthand terms
that was pretty widespread in certain decades.

Now if only I could find a satisfactory replacement for the underwear for ME
that I finally found but when I went back to stock up were no longer
available :-( :-(.

vicki



On 1/19/08, Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
>
> **
> Try boxers or no underwear at all, sometimes those multiple layers rub or
> bunch or flap and feel weird. Don't let clothes get even a little snug.
> Clothes that are getting a little tight rub and constrict. Some people can
> ignore that and some can't. Go with big, loose, inside out.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-it was from a movie or book or something, I'll bet
Sandra can pull up the source!. Had to do with knit briefs becoming
popular (before the day of boxer briefs....anyone remember when
boxers did
not have elastic waists?) and calling boxers "Indian Drawers". -=-

Sorry; unfamiliar with it.

-=-Now if only I could find a satisfactory replacement for the
underwear for ME that I finally found but when I went back to stock
up were no longer available :-(-=-



Internet Shopping.

They make socks without seams.

Lately WalMart, in the mens' section, has black cotton socks marked
as good for diabetics. I'm not diabetic, but loose black socks are
GREAT!!! I sleep in them.



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vicki Dennis

On 1/19/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -
>
> -=-Now if only I could find a satisfactory replacement for the
> underwear for ME that I finally found but when I went back to stock
> up were no longer available :-(-=-
>
> Internet Shopping.
>









Yeah, after not finding in stores (took a bit because I couldn't remember
which store they came from on the expedition where I had bought several
different types to try out....turns out it was Target) I went to the
internet. That is how I discovered they are no longer manufactured. There
was even a Wikipedia entry for "Formfit"!!.
They were really nice....all elastic fully covered including leg openings.
Better than "banded knit" legs which stretch out and ride up.


but loose black socks are
> GREAT!!!
>




Old camp ditty :
"Black socks never get dirty
The longer you wear them the blacker they get.
Sometimes I think I should wash them
But something inside me keeps saying not yet, not yet, yet.........."

Leading back to starting over endlessly.


Vicki






>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tami

Wow! Once again, thank you all for the wonderful advice/suggestions. You've definitely given
me some things to think about.

You guys are great!!

Tami

juillet727

>But...he needs to at least change
> his underwear (yes - he *does* need to!).
*****************

I hope this isn't too much info, but I just wanted to say that if a
young boy *has to* change his underwear daily, maybe a he needs a
little loving guidance with how to keep his bum clean with a warm
washcloth and some soapy water.
5yrs old can be awfully young to be able to do some things and I think
it's a kind thing to show our kids how to take care of themselves in
that way.

~~Juillet

missalexmissalex

The term "Indian Drawers" was in my all time favorite children's book,
Cheaper by the Dozen, by/about the Gilbraith family...or perhaps the
sequel, Belles on Their Toes. Maybe they said they "creep up on you"? I
read this book again and again.

BTW I really think this book is why efficiency is a big value for me,
since the dad was the first big efficiency expert. Don't worry, I don't
try to parent efficiently!!! I'm all about not interrupting my child
when she is concentrating on something :) but I do think it is great to
have systems that make daily maintance activities as quick and
automatic as possible so you have more time and energy to do other
things.

Alex

> Your comment about multiple layers made me think of something we used
to
> say................it was from a movie or book or something, I'll bet
> Sandra can pull up the source!. Had to do with knit briefs
becoming
> popular (before the day of boxer briefs....anyone remember when
boxers did
> not have elastic waists?) and calling boxers "Indian Drawers".
Some boys
> preferred tighty whities to boxers because the boxers tend to "sneak
up on
> you". Very politically incorrect language but one of those
shorthand terms
> that was pretty widespread in certain decades.

Vicki Dennis

Yes, I realized the next day that it was "creep up on you". The term just
kept floating around like snatches of a song that is stuck in your head ,
and I knew I would not get peace until I remembered or was told the source.
So thank you, thank you.
In text it was in Belles on Their Toes. But was shown in a scene in the
movie Cheaper by the Dozen. (The 1950 Myrna Loy movie based on the book,
not the one by that title made just a couple of years ago).

vicki



On 1/20/08, missalexmissalex <missalexmissalex@...> wrote:
>
> The term "Indian Drawers" was in my all time favorite children's book,
> Cheaper by the Dozen, by/about the Gilbraith family...or perhaps the
> sequel, Belles on Their Toes. Maybe they said they "creep up on you"? I
> read this book again and again.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

There are other books in addition to "Bells on their Toes" and
"Cheaper by the Dozen," written by members of this family:

Time out for Happiness by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.

I'm a Lucky Guy by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.

Innside Nantucket by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.

Of Whales and Women: One Man's View of Nantucket History by Frank B.
Gilbreth, Jr.

Loblolly by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.

He's My Boy by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.

How to be a Father by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.

Held's Angels by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr. and John Held, Jr.

Giddy Moment by Ernestine Gilbreth Carey

Rings Around Us by Ernestine Gilbreth Carey

Living with our Children by Lillian Gilbreth


-Pam


On Jan 22, 2008, at 11:48 AM, Vicki Dennis wrote:

> Yes, I realized the next day that it was "creep up on you". The term
> just
> kept floating around like snatches of a song that is stuck in your
> head ,
> and I knew I would not get peace until I remembered or was told the
> source.
> So thank you, thank you.
> In text it was in Belles on Their Toes. But was shown in a scene in
> the
> movie Cheaper by the Dozen. (The 1950 Myrna Loy movie based on the
> book,
> not the one by that title made just a couple of years ago).



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

missalexmissalex

Oh, thank you thank you, what a gift you have given me. I am so
fascinated with this family and never knew they had other books. I
just requested the 4 that my library system has. I think part of my
initial fantasies of homeschooling came from visualizing the lot of
them listening to language records during times of "unavoidable
delay" in the bathroom. :)

Alex

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> There are other books in addition to "Bells on their Toes" and
> "Cheaper by the Dozen," written by members of this family:
>
> Time out for Happiness by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> I'm a Lucky Guy by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> Innside Nantucket by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> Of Whales and Women: One Man's View of Nantucket History by Frank
B.
> Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> Loblolly by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> He's My Boy by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> How to be a Father by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr.
>
> Held's Angels by Frank B. Gilbreth, Jr. and John Held, Jr.
>
> Giddy Moment by Ernestine Gilbreth Carey
>
> Rings Around Us by Ernestine Gilbreth Carey
>
> Living with our Children by Lillian Gilbreth
>
>
> -Pam
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2008, at 11:48 AM, Vicki Dennis wrote:
>
> > Yes, I realized the next day that it was "creep up on you". The
term
> > just
> > kept floating around like snatches of a song that is stuck in
your
> > head ,
> > and I knew I would not get peace until I remembered or was told
the
> > source.
> > So thank you, thank you.
> > In text it was in Belles on Their Toes. But was shown in a scene
in
> > the
> > movie Cheaper by the Dozen. (The 1950 Myrna Loy movie based on
the
> > book,
> > not the one by that title made just a couple of years ago).
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>