tracyliebmann

If our kids can learn to read on their own...why does illiteracy
exist?? I've just been thinking about it and wanted some input. Thanks
in Advance!
Tracy

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 5, 2008, at 5:48 PM, tracyliebmann wrote:

> If our kids can learn to read on their own...why does illiteracy
> exist?? I've just been thinking about it and wanted some input. Thanks
> in Advance!

Illiteracy in schooled kids is caused by humiliation: not being able
to do what (supposedly) everyone else can. Kids can either give up as
failures or decide reading is dumb.

Illiteracy in the world is caused by a lack of support, lack of
resources. Without a need to read, without a print rich environment
where others are there to offer help and support as someone figures
it out, there isn't a reason to pick it up.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

I JUST heard Jon Scieszka (author of Stinky Cheese Man and lots of
other wonderful books) interviewed. He more or less said that schools/
teachers were ruining reading for kids by trying to make them read
what they (teachers/schools) thought they should read. AND - he said
trying to get kids to stop watching tv was not a good idea.

He was just named the first Library of Congress Ambassador for Young
People's Literature (or something like that).

-pam


On Jan 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, tracyliebmann wrote:

> If our kids can learn to read on their own...why does illiteracy
> exist?? I've just been thinking about it and wanted some input. Thanks
> in Advance!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tracyliebmann

Thanks for the responses...yet, nothing I didn't already know. I've
got to be honest I really was hoping to hear from Sandra...got
anything thought provoking to add Sandra? Goodnight everyone~ Tracy





--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> I JUST heard Jon Scieszka (author of Stinky Cheese Man and lots
of
> other wonderful books) interviewed. He more or less said that
schools/
> teachers were ruining reading for kids by trying to make them
read
> what they (teachers/schools) thought they should read. AND - he
said
> trying to get kids to stop watching tv was not a good idea.
>
> He was just named the first Library of Congress Ambassador for
Young
> People's Literature (or something like that).
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Jan 5, 2008, at 2:48 PM, tracyliebmann wrote:
>
> > If our kids can learn to read on their own...why does illiteracy
> > exist?? I've just been thinking about it and wanted some input.
Thanks
> > in Advance!
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I've got to be honest I really was hoping to hear from Sandra...got
anything thought provoking to add Sandra? -=-

I liked what others wrote. Joyce is exactly right, and Pam knew
something I hadn't heard at all.

I joked about a bumper sticker slogan years ago, and Kelly Lovejoy
made some. It was a misquote, though. Holly's fixed the one she has
on the door to her room. It says "If you don't want to read this,
blame a teacher" (in response to "if you can read this, thank a
teacher" bumper stickers).

School clearly makes a lot of kids "hate reading," and by "making
kids read" the produce adults who don't want to read unless they
"have to." It's all mind-sludging reactionary nonsense, but most
people accept it as normal and inevitable.

A child doing something cool that adults do because the child has the
instinctive urge to do it is healthy and right and natural. Because
of school, many people don't see reading as something cool that
adults do, but rather as something painful and awful that kids are
forced to do.



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tracyliebmann

Thanks everyone who wanted to respond :-) So...we can all agree that
a child who is not at school and is surrounded by words, is
supported by others who can read and not shamed...will read! It will
just be in his or her right time, and no one really knows when that
will be.

~Tracy



--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
> -=-I've got to be honest I really was hoping to hear from
Sandra...got
> anything thought provoking to add Sandra? -=-
>
> I liked what others wrote. Joyce is exactly right, and Pam knew
> something I hadn't heard at all.
>
> I joked about a bumper sticker slogan years ago, and Kelly
Lovejoy
> made some. It was a misquote, though. Holly's fixed the one she
has
> on the door to her room. It says "If you don't want to read
this,
> blame a teacher" (in response to "if you can read this, thank a
> teacher" bumper stickers).
>
> School clearly makes a lot of kids "hate reading," and by "making
> kids read" the produce adults who don't want to read unless they
> "have to." It's all mind-sludging reactionary nonsense, but most
> people accept it as normal and inevitable.
>
> A child doing something cool that adults do because the child has
the
> instinctive urge to do it is healthy and right and natural.
Because
> of school, many people don't see reading as something cool that
> adults do, but rather as something painful and awful that kids
are
> forced to do.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=- So...we can all agree that
a child who is not at school and is surrounded by words, is
supported by others who can read and not shamed...will read! It will
just be in his or her right time, and no one really knows when that
will be.-=-

We don't need to all agree.
Our 100 percent unanimous agreement wouldn't make it true.

I have seen my three children learn to read in their own ways, and have documented it i
public so others who were trying it could be encouraged.

I have three cats. They all have tails and four legs. That doesn't mean there are no cats
without tails, and no three-legged cats.

There might be a child who doesn't learn to read for some reason or combination of
reasons. There have always been, and always will be. Unfortunately, school teaches that if
a child does what teachers tell them to do, they will learn all the things in those books the
teachers distribute and then pick back up (or charge for if they're lost). Schools teach that
memorizing phonics rules equals reading.

I would bet big money that in 30 years if an illiterate adult is found in a text-rich culture,
it will be a person who went to school and was beat down and discouraged, or it's a
person with mental or visual processing exceptions and problems.

Sandra

diana jenner

My dad reads better now than he did when I was a kid.
I remember realizing he was stumbling with his paperwork for something, I
joyfully jumped in and helped. I didn't realize it was a cause of
embarrassment for him.
My kids wanted to be read to when they were young, and asked him often. I
think their non-judgment of his skill combined with the bonding of the
activity gave him the reinforcement he needed. He's read to me over the
phone for the first time in the past few years. It's a cool progression.
He's also opened up about other things in his childhood and how they could
have been handled better; especially bedwetting.
He was an unexpected support of our lifestyle choices :D Our trust that
Hayden would read has resulted in Hayden reading. Our trust that Hayden will
outgrow bedwetting when he's supposed to, our support and acceptance of the
process, has avoided giving him a stigma of shame. In both cases, we have
eliminated the opportunity for Hayden to carry the same scars my Dad has to
carry around. And given Dad an opportunity to heal by sharing himself with
us.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

melissa_hice

Wow, Sandra. I am glad I read your post. My daughter is struggling
with reading. She will be 9 in April. I taught public school for 9
years before I had her, grades 1-3 during that time period. I tried
to teach reading using the whole language approach, but was pretty
much forced to teach the phonics approach because that was the
curriculum we had to use, plus the dreaded Iowa tests.

When I decided to homeschool my daughter, of course I took
the "school" approach (I had not heard of unschooling until this past
fall). I think I am a big reason for why she is not reading. I
tried everything on that poor child. She just wasn't ready to read,
but I kept forcing her (that was the "teacher devil" in me - as John
Holt said). Boy, I tried quite a few programs to no avail. I even
thought maybe she had dyslexia and even went to a dyslexia
conference. It didn't seem to really fit, although she has a few of
the symptoms which probably most kids do at one point or another.

It makes me sad that I didn't just stop and really look at her and
see the frustration, sadness, anger, and humiliation she was
experiencing. I just kept plugging away saying school teacherish
things like "You know that word. You're just not trying" and "what
sound does that letter make?" "Come on! Just sound it out." Of
course, most of the time I was frustrated as well and I know beyond a
shadow of a doubt she knew it just based on the tone of my voice.

When I began reading about unschooling and reading your website, John
Holt's books and every other thing I could get my hands on, I guess I
saw the light. I backed off completely. No more workbooks. No more
forcing her to read aloud to me. No more turning everything into a
reading lesson. She is s-l-o-w-l-y starting to chose to read a few
very easy books on her own. I guess in a way, she is having to
deschool as far as reading goes.

The amazing thing is that she is so confident with math. I never
really did a lot of math instruction with her because I was so intent
on her learning to read at a young age. She has no fear of math and
is always coming up to me with the newest thing she learned, math
wise. One day, she made a discovery all on her own that anytime you
double a number, whether that number is odd or even, the answer is
always even. She decided one day to learn her doubles and she did.
I noticed a few months back that she would stop in front of the
analog clock and stare at it for a long time, run off and play, then
return to stare some more. By the end of the week, she had pretty
much figured out how to tell time.

I think because I love to read, I want her to "hurry up" and read
because I just "know" that she will enjoy it as well. I am having to
really step back and let her come to reading on her own terms.

My son is 5. You can bet that I have not made the same mistake. He
is not interested in reading right now, not even really interested in
letters. I am reading to both children lots and lots, we go to the
library several times a week, they dictate stories to me that I type,
and they "write" letters and cards (my 8 year old still just makes
scribbles and won't attempt to try to write words unless she
absolutely knows how) to relatives and friends that we actually send
(I remember as a teacher I'd have the kids "write" letters or cards
to book characters that never got mailed - what an idiotic thing to
do!).

I guess if I were to continue on the path of forcing my daughter to
read and using all sorts of programs to entice her and bribe her
(such as "Book It" etc.), she would end up being one of the illerate
people that we hear so much about. I am hoping that it is not too
late and that some day, she will decide to read and will want to read
for the enjoyment of it.

Thanks all for reading this long post!

Melissa




--- In [email protected], "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
> -=- So...we can all agree that
> a child who is not at school and is surrounded by words, is
> supported by others who can read and not shamed...will read! It will
> just be in his or her right time, and no one really knows when that
> will be.-=-
>
> We don't need to all agree.
> Our 100 percent unanimous agreement wouldn't make it true.
>
> I have seen my three children learn to read in their own ways, and
have documented it i
> public so others who were trying it could be encouraged.
>
> I have three cats. They all have tails and four legs. That
doesn't mean there are no cats
> without tails, and no three-legged cats.
>
> There might be a child who doesn't learn to read for some reason or
combination of
> reasons. There have always been, and always will be.
Unfortunately, school teaches that if
> a child does what teachers tell them to do, they will learn all the
things in those books the
> teachers distribute and then pick back up (or charge for if they're
lost). Schools teach that
> memorizing phonics rules equals reading.
>
> I would bet big money that in 30 years if an illiterate adult is
found in a text-rich culture,
> it will be a person who went to school and was beat down and
discouraged, or it's a
> person with mental or visual processing exceptions and problems.
>
> Sandra
>