At a loss
Jinny Burton
I am a ball of emotions today -- yesterday I met a friend for coffee and
during our visit she brought up ds (mine) and how back in October when he
and dd where there to pick up her dd's for some afternoon fun she almost
kicked him out of her house. He was dressed in goth and apparently he was
either not in a good mood or just had the "goth" attitude that day and she
didn't really want her girls going out into town with him. She is someone
who usually says what's on her mind and often gives ds her opinion on his
hair length or style etc..... and expects him to smile and be happy about it
while she "teases". DS usually doesn't say anything when she does that and
has said that's just her opinion and it doesn't get to him, but my guess is
on this particular occasion he stood up for himself. She reasoned that is
was October after all and the month to play dress up and she let it ride.
She said on subsequent visits he was nicer and seemed more like himself. Now
ds has his girlfriend coming to visit for a week (who also likes to dress up
goth for some fun ---) and she really wants to meet friends dd. Friend said
that she and dh will not allow dd to go out of the house with my ds if he is
dressed that way because it draws "drug users and those types of people"
(her words) to you and attracts unwanted attention. She is under pressure
from her dh but said it was 50% her opinion as well. These are people we
have known and been very good friends with for over seven years. Our kids
grew up together. The last four years they have lived different places and
their eldest dd really had a hard time and ds was the one person she could
confide in and be herself with. I am just at a loss today at finding them so
shallow in only seeing the clothes and/or makeup instead of the boy they
know. Their dd has chain pants and likes to dress goth as well --- but she
doesn't do it when her dad is home and she doesn't do it when they go out in
public (because she isn't allowed to). We are very different in our
parenting styles and friend is not an unschooler --- over the years we have
been able to co-exist and maintain our friendship without bashing each
others choices.....until now. This just came so out of the blue and I am
riding a roller coaster of thoughts and emotions on how to move forward.
Jinny B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
during our visit she brought up ds (mine) and how back in October when he
and dd where there to pick up her dd's for some afternoon fun she almost
kicked him out of her house. He was dressed in goth and apparently he was
either not in a good mood or just had the "goth" attitude that day and she
didn't really want her girls going out into town with him. She is someone
who usually says what's on her mind and often gives ds her opinion on his
hair length or style etc..... and expects him to smile and be happy about it
while she "teases". DS usually doesn't say anything when she does that and
has said that's just her opinion and it doesn't get to him, but my guess is
on this particular occasion he stood up for himself. She reasoned that is
was October after all and the month to play dress up and she let it ride.
She said on subsequent visits he was nicer and seemed more like himself. Now
ds has his girlfriend coming to visit for a week (who also likes to dress up
goth for some fun ---) and she really wants to meet friends dd. Friend said
that she and dh will not allow dd to go out of the house with my ds if he is
dressed that way because it draws "drug users and those types of people"
(her words) to you and attracts unwanted attention. She is under pressure
from her dh but said it was 50% her opinion as well. These are people we
have known and been very good friends with for over seven years. Our kids
grew up together. The last four years they have lived different places and
their eldest dd really had a hard time and ds was the one person she could
confide in and be herself with. I am just at a loss today at finding them so
shallow in only seeing the clothes and/or makeup instead of the boy they
know. Their dd has chain pants and likes to dress goth as well --- but she
doesn't do it when her dad is home and she doesn't do it when they go out in
public (because she isn't allowed to). We are very different in our
parenting styles and friend is not an unschooler --- over the years we have
been able to co-exist and maintain our friendship without bashing each
others choices.....until now. This just came so out of the blue and I am
riding a roller coaster of thoughts and emotions on how to move forward.
Jinny B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 12, 2007, at 9:33 AM, Jinny Burton wrote:
it's her decision for her daughter. She gets to choose what she feels
is right for her child just as you do. It's respectful to honor that.
To be respectful of a person, to model respect for our kids, we need
to respect their right to choose for their own children. We don't
have to agree! Just say, that's her rules. Sometimes it rains.
Sometimes stores want us to wear shoes to shop. Sometimes parents get
nervous for their children. That's just as things are.
No matter where you go there will be local rules. It's our choice
whether to go along with them, flaunt them or not go in. I think we
do a disservice to our kids to stomp on others' wishes just because
it feels controlling. Courtesy is about honoring someone else's
wishes to set the rules for their own place.
Your son could flaunt her rules, maybe change clothes after they left
the daughter's house, but what will he have gained? He will have
gained control, but at what price? When the daughter's mother finds
out, what will he lose?
If your son has a lot of control over his own life then this isn't
going to be a big deal to him. (Nor should you make it one.) If he
doesn't need to fight for control in his own life, letting others
have control of their own worlds, won't feel like a loss of control
to him. Only those who have so little control need to fight for
control over others.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Friend saidIt really doesn't matter why she's saying this or whether you agree,
> that she and dh will not allow dd to go out of the house with my ds
> if he is
> dressed that way because it draws "drug users and those types of
> people"
> (her words) to you and attracts unwanted attention.
it's her decision for her daughter. She gets to choose what she feels
is right for her child just as you do. It's respectful to honor that.
To be respectful of a person, to model respect for our kids, we need
to respect their right to choose for their own children. We don't
have to agree! Just say, that's her rules. Sometimes it rains.
Sometimes stores want us to wear shoes to shop. Sometimes parents get
nervous for their children. That's just as things are.
No matter where you go there will be local rules. It's our choice
whether to go along with them, flaunt them or not go in. I think we
do a disservice to our kids to stomp on others' wishes just because
it feels controlling. Courtesy is about honoring someone else's
wishes to set the rules for their own place.
Your son could flaunt her rules, maybe change clothes after they left
the daughter's house, but what will he have gained? He will have
gained control, but at what price? When the daughter's mother finds
out, what will he lose?
If your son has a lot of control over his own life then this isn't
going to be a big deal to him. (Nor should you make it one.) If he
doesn't need to fight for control in his own life, letting others
have control of their own worlds, won't feel like a loss of control
to him. Only those who have so little control need to fight for
control over others.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. I am just at a loss today at finding them so
shallow in only seeing the clothes and/or makeup instead of the boy they
know.-=-
When my kids have dressed or worn their hair in any way that
potentially sent a message of which they were unaware, I'd advise
them. Holly did the Britney Spears look a few times when she was too
young to know what it could mean to nasty older guys. Marty went
with his head shaved to the first Live and Learn conference (maybe
the first two or three) and I told him that in different parts of the
country people could misinterpret that, and he needed to be aware of it.
When a kid makes an informed choice, they need to live with the
consequences.
-=-over the years we have been able to co-exist and maintain our
friendship without bashing each others choices.....until now.-=-
She's not bashing your choices, she's uncomfortable with your son's
choices. Having let him make choices, you need to let the natural
consequences play out for him. That's how he'll learn when and how
to dress in ways of his choosing.
Friends for years doesn't guarantee friends for life, in any case,
with anyone. If he made his choices just to keep that friend it
wouldn't be any healthier than making his choices to keep his
girlfriend happy. Maybe help him consider the reasons for choices.
I think it would be wrong to condemn your friend for her attitude.
I've lost friends over the years. In a discussion just a couple of
weeks ago about someone who's a friend of several people I know, I
mentioned that she has never warmed up to me because she was unhappy
I had homeschooled. She's still waiting for me to send Kirby to
school so she can be my friend again, I said. And it's funny, since
he's 21, but that's basically the deal. She was kinda playing freeze-
out with me, and I chose Kirby over her. It was an easy choice for
me, but she didn't understand it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shallow in only seeing the clothes and/or makeup instead of the boy they
know.-=-
When my kids have dressed or worn their hair in any way that
potentially sent a message of which they were unaware, I'd advise
them. Holly did the Britney Spears look a few times when she was too
young to know what it could mean to nasty older guys. Marty went
with his head shaved to the first Live and Learn conference (maybe
the first two or three) and I told him that in different parts of the
country people could misinterpret that, and he needed to be aware of it.
When a kid makes an informed choice, they need to live with the
consequences.
-=-over the years we have been able to co-exist and maintain our
friendship without bashing each others choices.....until now.-=-
She's not bashing your choices, she's uncomfortable with your son's
choices. Having let him make choices, you need to let the natural
consequences play out for him. That's how he'll learn when and how
to dress in ways of his choosing.
Friends for years doesn't guarantee friends for life, in any case,
with anyone. If he made his choices just to keep that friend it
wouldn't be any healthier than making his choices to keep his
girlfriend happy. Maybe help him consider the reasons for choices.
I think it would be wrong to condemn your friend for her attitude.
I've lost friends over the years. In a discussion just a couple of
weeks ago about someone who's a friend of several people I know, I
mentioned that she has never warmed up to me because she was unhappy
I had homeschooled. She's still waiting for me to send Kirby to
school so she can be my friend again, I said. And it's funny, since
he's 21, but that's basically the deal. She was kinda playing freeze-
out with me, and I chose Kirby over her. It was an easy choice for
me, but she didn't understand it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]