Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Video and unschooling
Jessica Kelly
we do own one tv, and it's in a cupboard with doors that close it from view
99% of the time. when we do turn it on, it's only to watch videos that our
-5yo son jake has chosen from the library -- and since he almost always
chooses bill nye, which is fun and full of info (despite the annoying jump
cuts), we're not too bent out of shape about it. we almost ditched the tv
completely when he was a baby, but then my partner and i decided that we might
want to rent a movie some night, some day, after jake started going to sleep
before midnite <g>, and so we kept it as a monitor only. the reason we
started allowing videos for jake at all is because he discovered the rack of
vidcassettes at the library and wanted to see what they were -- and we try to
stick to the "don't offer, don't deny" rule as much as possible. (here's
where you can point out that if we HAD ditched the tv, we could have just
explained what they were but wouldn't have had to show them to him.)
sometimes he chooses things that i don't like, like the amazing animals videos
that star an annoying, wisecracking lizard, but it's really just a mild and
infrequent annoyance. what i absolutely hate are all the ads at the head of
many tapes, but thanks to them we were able to introduce the subject (and
purpose) of advertising, so jake usually fast-forwards through the ads,
complaining all the while that they're just trying to sell something that no
one needs. i will admit that sometimes we do wish we'd ditched the tv
completely -- and so no, you're definitely not alone in your view of tv as
ugly incarnate -- but the tv also gives me a good sense of my own parenting
and family priorities. for example, if jake's watching a video on a sunny
day, perhaps i should have arranged the day around a bike ride, or left his
paints out, and saved the laundry for evening or the next rain...
tv, the drug of the nation...
--
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
99% of the time. when we do turn it on, it's only to watch videos that our
-5yo son jake has chosen from the library -- and since he almost always
chooses bill nye, which is fun and full of info (despite the annoying jump
cuts), we're not too bent out of shape about it. we almost ditched the tv
completely when he was a baby, but then my partner and i decided that we might
want to rent a movie some night, some day, after jake started going to sleep
before midnite <g>, and so we kept it as a monitor only. the reason we
started allowing videos for jake at all is because he discovered the rack of
vidcassettes at the library and wanted to see what they were -- and we try to
stick to the "don't offer, don't deny" rule as much as possible. (here's
where you can point out that if we HAD ditched the tv, we could have just
explained what they were but wouldn't have had to show them to him.)
sometimes he chooses things that i don't like, like the amazing animals videos
that star an annoying, wisecracking lizard, but it's really just a mild and
infrequent annoyance. what i absolutely hate are all the ads at the head of
many tapes, but thanks to them we were able to introduce the subject (and
purpose) of advertising, so jake usually fast-forwards through the ads,
complaining all the while that they're just trying to sell something that no
one needs. i will admit that sometimes we do wish we'd ditched the tv
completely -- and so no, you're definitely not alone in your view of tv as
ugly incarnate -- but the tv also gives me a good sense of my own parenting
and family priorities. for example, if jake's watching a video on a sunny
day, perhaps i should have arranged the day around a bike ride, or left his
paints out, and saved the laundry for evening or the next rain...
tv, the drug of the nation...
--
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Nichoel
Hello Terrie,
Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own home?
It IS a personal choice, but just because your MIL does not have the same convictions is she really the one at fault? Your child will be exposed to TV in their lifetime whether it be in your MIL's house or in the airport, stores etc...That should not be a 'bad' thing by any means.
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own home?
It IS a personal choice, but just because your MIL does not have the same convictions is she really the one at fault? Your child will be exposed to TV in their lifetime whether it be in your MIL's house or in the airport, stores etc...That should not be a 'bad' thing by any means.
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Video and unschooling
Ariadna; I am with you on the no-tv household. It was a personal choice
before having children, it is not how I like to spend my time, and I believe
it is a as you say a tool of the the advertisers, and popular culture which
I am not a believer or participant in (ie wearing the "brand name clothes"
perfumes, perfect body, and I do not like the way many programs show people
treating each other, which is often shallow, cruel, or self serving, which
is modeling behavior I disagree with, and since I believe modeling is how
people and children learn to treat themselves and others it is not something
I want to observe or have observed by my children. I think it is a personal
choice, and if one disagrees with 90 percent of what is displayed on the
screen (this goes for most children videos too) then it is a reasonable
decision to exclude it from ones life, in the same way that if you disagree
with smoking to not allow smokers in your home while they are smoking or
have just smoked. For me, it is not just a concern of how much will my
child watch if I open the "flood gates", and will my child self moderate the
amount. It is for me, that I do not like most of what is on the tv, and it
is such a passive activity, and a bit mind numbing. I never realized the
effects the tv really had on me until I was tv free for a long time, and
then had exposures (airport, etc) and saw how choppy and short the story
lines and images were, how little time it gave for one to view a scene
before flashing to another, and it actually was uncomfortable to watch this.
It is not the way the real world is, we don't see our world around us
flashing and changing scenes and views so jarringly, I think it feels
shocking to the system that has not accommodated to that type of visual
stimuli, and I question the health of it. I feel that myself and my
child are better off self stimulating or being with stimulating humans than
a flashing inanimate box. In the same way, I never used inanimate soothing
devices for my child as an infant (i.e. pacifiers, swings, vibrating baby
seats, fake heartbeats playing on a machine because I believed his nature
was to need human contact and human soothing.
Now just because I choose to avoid tv, I am not sitting in judgement of
others who choose tv. I certainly also respect and uphold others choice to
include tv, in the same way that I respect others food choices and religious
choices. What I don't appreciate is when people (like my MIL) think my
choice has no value, and chooses to have the tv on in front of my child
behind my back, because she had decided my choice has not merit. This is a
violation, just as if she offered my child a food we avoided, or as an older
child allowed him to have alcohol or exposed him to cigarette smoke. This
is a lifestyle choice our family has made , we all agree on it, and it needs
to be respected.
Well this is my first post on this board though I've been a
lurker....perhaps I won't be welcome after this (hee hee)
Terrie mother of Oliver 3.5 years
mother of Benjamin ( a dear memory in my heart, would be 5 . 5 years)
pregnant with new life due in July
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Jessica Kelly
i just wanted to add that we had this same experience -- that of not noticing
how truly annoying (mind-numbing, desensitising, boring, whatever) tv, in
general, is until we quit watching it for some time. we had a houseguest a
couple of months ago who chose to turn the tv on one night -- to a show i'd
watched and enjoyed years ago, no less -- and i was surprised by the lack of
depth, jumpy images, etc. we have friends who've said the same thing -- that
they knew they wouldn't MISS tv, but, after they'd quit watching for a while,
were surprised how much it ANNOYED them when it was on.
btw, we're in the same boat with the toxic inlaws, too. in fact, their
extremely negative (verbal, in front of our child) response to our choice to opt
for "this homeschooling bulls**t" (the last in a string of negative responses to
just about every parenting choice we've made) has caused us to pretty much cut
off contact.
"Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa" wrote:
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
how truly annoying (mind-numbing, desensitising, boring, whatever) tv, in
general, is until we quit watching it for some time. we had a houseguest a
couple of months ago who chose to turn the tv on one night -- to a show i'd
watched and enjoyed years ago, no less -- and i was surprised by the lack of
depth, jumpy images, etc. we have friends who've said the same thing -- that
they knew they wouldn't MISS tv, but, after they'd quit watching for a while,
were surprised how much it ANNOYED them when it was on.
btw, we're in the same boat with the toxic inlaws, too. in fact, their
extremely negative (verbal, in front of our child) response to our choice to opt
for "this homeschooling bulls**t" (the last in a string of negative responses to
just about every parenting choice we've made) has caused us to pretty much cut
off contact.
"Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa" wrote:
> I never realized the effects the tv really had on me until I was tv free for--
> a long time, and then had exposures (airport, etc) and saw how choppy and
> short the story lines and images were, how little time it gave for one to view
> a scene
> before flashing to another, and it actually was uncomfortable to watch this.
> It is not the way the real world is, we don't see our world around us
> flashing and changing scenes and views so jarringly...
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Jessica Kelly
I don't know Terrie, but I believe her message says that her MIL had the TV on in front of the kid's but behind the Terrie's back, and against her wishes, which is definitely a breach of boundaries. We ask my folks to turn off the tube when we visit, simply explaining that we came to actively visit, not passively veg in front of the tube. If they'd rather watch TV (like if there's a ballgame on or something), they let us know they'll be watching, and
we choose whether or not we want to go...
Nichoel wrote:
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
we choose whether or not we want to go...
Nichoel wrote:
> Hello Terrie,Jessica Kelly
> Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit perplexed--
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Jessica Kelly
I don't think it's fair to say that those who choose to avoid TV are
automatically sitting in judgement of those who choose to view the TV. It's a
personal choice, and just because some of us don't like it doesn't mean that it's
bad for everyone. I would, however, argue that there's little valuable content
on commercial broadcast television, and whatever is valuable can in almost all
cases be found elsewhere in a more "healthy" format. Of course, I'd argue that
there's also little nutritional value in a chocolate cookie (even if it's
organic, sugar-free, etc), but that doesn't mean we don't bake once in a while
for fun. And now I think it's appropriate to cop to the fact that I was addicted
to Perry Mason as a child, and I still know his office phone number... :^)
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
automatically sitting in judgement of those who choose to view the TV. It's a
personal choice, and just because some of us don't like it doesn't mean that it's
bad for everyone. I would, however, argue that there's little valuable content
on commercial broadcast television, and whatever is valuable can in almost all
cases be found elsewhere in a more "healthy" format. Of course, I'd argue that
there's also little nutritional value in a chocolate cookie (even if it's
organic, sugar-free, etc), but that doesn't mean we don't bake once in a while
for fun. And now I think it's appropriate to cop to the fact that I was addicted
to Perry Mason as a child, and I still know his office phone number... :^)
SandraDodd@... wrote:
> <<Now just because I choose to avoid tv, I am not sitting in judgement of--
> others who choose tv.>>
>
> You can say that, but by banning it from your house, you are saying it is a
> very bad thing, bad for babies, bad for children, unnatural, harmful.
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
Hi Nichoel
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
The exposure I refer was actually at a vacation rental house we all pitched
in to rent and spend a week visiting together (we are west coast and she is
east coast). So it was neutral turf, and my husband, son and I had no where
to go to avoid the tv, and we have made a concious choice to avoid it, as
firmly as a nonsmoker avoids smoke filled houses if you understand what I
mean. So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son and try and spend
the evening reading every book we could find and keep him and ourselves
entertained, yet not having the "visit" we had spent so much money and time
to go there and do. This was sort of an evening ritual for her.
We do not live near her, but if we did I would, as I said expect her to
respect our values and choices and not expose my son to tv. Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms) I feel ANY exposure, especially in
the primary years, when he is still establishing his tastes, personality,
and values, any exposure is toxic. I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point, the point is he is my responsibility, and I have
worked hard to protect his innocence as a child, that includes avoiding
media like tv and videos. If she was a smoker she would be expected not to
smoke in his presence. Same thing. Or she could choose to visit him at our
house and follow our values, if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.
To your point about exposure some day, yes, very true. In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. Also, we can explain the psychology behind manipulative
programing, advertising etc. Now I do believe at a certain time it will be
useful to include videos with information he finds useful, especially during
homeschooling, and fullu expect to enjoy with him quality movies someday.
But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or video)
that the smaller years are not the time for this type of viewing.
Thanks for your thoughtful questions!
Terrie
Mom of Oliver3.5 years
Mom of Benjamin (angel in my heart, would have been 5)
growing new life due in July
It IS a personal choice, but just because your MIL does not have the same
convictions is she really the one at fault? Your child will be exposed to TV
in their lifetime whether it be in your MIL's house or in the airport,
stores etc...That should not be a 'bad' thing by any means.
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
The exposure I refer was actually at a vacation rental house we all pitched
in to rent and spend a week visiting together (we are west coast and she is
east coast). So it was neutral turf, and my husband, son and I had no where
to go to avoid the tv, and we have made a concious choice to avoid it, as
firmly as a nonsmoker avoids smoke filled houses if you understand what I
mean. So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son and try and spend
the evening reading every book we could find and keep him and ourselves
entertained, yet not having the "visit" we had spent so much money and time
to go there and do. This was sort of an evening ritual for her.
We do not live near her, but if we did I would, as I said expect her to
respect our values and choices and not expose my son to tv. Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms) I feel ANY exposure, especially in
the primary years, when he is still establishing his tastes, personality,
and values, any exposure is toxic. I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point, the point is he is my responsibility, and I have
worked hard to protect his innocence as a child, that includes avoiding
media like tv and videos. If she was a smoker she would be expected not to
smoke in his presence. Same thing. Or she could choose to visit him at our
house and follow our values, if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.
To your point about exposure some day, yes, very true. In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. Also, we can explain the psychology behind manipulative
programing, advertising etc. Now I do believe at a certain time it will be
useful to include videos with information he finds useful, especially during
homeschooling, and fullu expect to enjoy with him quality movies someday.
But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or video)
that the smaller years are not the time for this type of viewing.
Thanks for your thoughtful questions!
Terrie
Mom of Oliver3.5 years
Mom of Benjamin (angel in my heart, would have been 5)
growing new life due in July
It IS a personal choice, but just because your MIL does not have the same
convictions is she really the one at fault? Your child will be exposed to TV
in their lifetime whether it be in your MIL's house or in the airport,
stores etc...That should not be a 'bad' thing by any means.
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Video
and unschooling
Ariadna; I am with you on the no-tv household. It was a personal choice
before having children, it is not how I like to spend my time, and I
believe
it is a as you say a tool of the the advertisers, and popular culture which
I am not a believer or participant in (ie wearing the "brand name clothes"
perfumes, perfect body, and I do not like the way many programs show people
treating each other, which is often shallow, cruel, or self serving, which
is modeling behavior I disagree with, and since I believe modeling is how
people and children learn to treat themselves and others it is not
something
I want to observe or have observed by my children. I think it is a personal
choice, and if one disagrees with 90 percent of what is displayed on the
screen (this goes for most children videos too) then it is a reasonable
decision to exclude it from ones life, in the same way that if you disagree
with smoking to not allow smokers in your home while they are smoking or
have just smoked. For me, it is not just a concern of how much will my
child watch if I open the "flood gates", and will my child self moderate
the
amount. It is for me, that I do not like most of what is on the tv, and it
is such a passive activity, and a bit mind numbing. I never realized the
effects the tv really had on me until I was tv free for a long time, and
then had exposures (airport, etc) and saw how choppy and short the story
lines and images were, how little time it gave for one to view a scene
before flashing to another, and it actually was uncomfortable to watch
this.
It is not the way the real world is, we don't see our world around us
flashing and changing scenes and views so jarringly, I think it feels
shocking to the system that has not accommodated to that type of visual
stimuli, and I question the health of it. I feel that myself and my
child are better off self stimulating or being with stimulating humans than
a flashing inanimate box. In the same way, I never used inanimate soothing
devices for my child as an infant (i.e. pacifiers, swings, vibrating baby
seats, fake heartbeats playing on a machine because I believed his nature
was to need human contact and human soothing.
Now just because I choose to avoid tv, I am not sitting in judgement of
others who choose tv. I certainly also respect and uphold others choice to
include tv, in the same way that I respect others food choices and
religious
choices. What I don't appreciate is when people (like my MIL) think my
choice has no value, and chooses to have the tv on in front of my child
behind my back, because she had decided my choice has not merit. This is a
violation, just as if she offered my child a food we avoided, or as an
older
child allowed him to have alcohol or exposed him to cigarette smoke. This
is a lifestyle choice our family has made , we all agree on it, and it
needs
to be respected.
Well this is my first post on this board though I've been a
lurker....perhaps I won't be welcome after this (hee hee)
Terrie mother of Oliver 3.5 years
mother of Benjamin ( a dear memory in my heart, would be 5 . 5 years)
pregnant with new life due in July
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
Hi Nichoel
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
I thought of something else I wanted to add, and wanted your thoughts on
this. My MIL has a daughter much younger than the rest of us (22) who was
also at this vacation house. The same evening I refer to with the tv
concern, this daughter arrived in the evening, and the MIL got very angry
because she felt the daughter had been out smoking pot, and warned her if
she was going to be high she could not be in her (MIL) presence, at this
vacation house (equal turf right) and eventually the daughter left the
vacation early. It seems to me this example is one of the MIL feeling her
values were being infringed on by being exposed to something (a person who
was high) being in her presence. Like I felt our values were infringed on
by playing the tv, knowing we did not enjoy it at all. What do you think?
Thanks.
Terrie (again)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<Interesting point you bring up; I wonder though, do you think that your
MIL should not have TV on at all in *her* house when you and your family are
there? Is that where your disagreement with her lies? If so I am a bit
perplexed, why would you push your views on someone in their own home? I can
fully understanding wanting to limit/not have TV in your home however how or
why do you expect someone else to conform to your beliefs within their own
home?>>>
I thought of something else I wanted to add, and wanted your thoughts on
this. My MIL has a daughter much younger than the rest of us (22) who was
also at this vacation house. The same evening I refer to with the tv
concern, this daughter arrived in the evening, and the MIL got very angry
because she felt the daughter had been out smoking pot, and warned her if
she was going to be high she could not be in her (MIL) presence, at this
vacation house (equal turf right) and eventually the daughter left the
vacation early. It seems to me this example is one of the MIL feeling her
values were being infringed on by being exposed to something (a person who
was high) being in her presence. Like I felt our values were infringed on
by playing the tv, knowing we did not enjoy it at all. What do you think?
Thanks.
Terrie (again)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cindy
Jessica Kelly wrote:
And taking my children to Africa or China or wherever their interests might
lead them isn't always a possibility.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>If a child is a visual learner, getting it from a book won't be as useful.
> I would, however, argue that there's little valuable content
> on commercial broadcast television, and whatever is valuable can in almost all
> cases be found elsewhere in a more "healthy" format.
>
And taking my children to Africa or China or wherever their interests might
lead them isn't always a possibility.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/02 3:00:03 PM, danandterrie@... writes:
<< So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son >>
You chose to.
Maybe watching TV with grandma would have been better for him.
To set the world up so that it's so easy to violate you makes life more
dangerous than it needs to be. Creating a fragile environment is not the
best way to unschool.
<<Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms)>>
I'm thinking we understand it better than you do.
<<I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point>>
The point is whether it's a logical belief, a defensible and productive
belief.
<<if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.>>
*IF* ?
Do you feel you shoudl be able to do whatever you want in your house
regardless of the presence of others?
<< In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. >>
There was a homeschooler with a two year old who told us with confidence that
when his child was eight he would be reading the Bible in its original
languages.
I bet that didn't happen.
If you plan and predict the world in too narrow a channel, you'll be
disappointed. If you open up and accept good things happening, your world
will be larger and richer.
What if you have another child by the time you fell instinctively that it's
the right time to expose your first to television?
<<But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or video)>>
Please find that quote and bring it here. Don't give us a webpage, give us
the quote.
Sandra
<< So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son >>
You chose to.
Maybe watching TV with grandma would have been better for him.
To set the world up so that it's so easy to violate you makes life more
dangerous than it needs to be. Creating a fragile environment is not the
best way to unschool.
<<Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms)>>
I'm thinking we understand it better than you do.
<<I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point>>
The point is whether it's a logical belief, a defensible and productive
belief.
<<if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.>>
*IF* ?
Do you feel you shoudl be able to do whatever you want in your house
regardless of the presence of others?
<< In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. >>
There was a homeschooler with a two year old who told us with confidence that
when his child was eight he would be reading the Bible in its original
languages.
I bet that didn't happen.
If you plan and predict the world in too narrow a channel, you'll be
disappointed. If you open up and accept good things happening, your world
will be larger and richer.
What if you have another child by the time you fell instinctively that it's
the right time to expose your first to television?
<<But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or video)>>
Please find that quote and bring it here. Don't give us a webpage, give us
the quote.
Sandra
Jessica Kelly
I don't think we're talking about the same thing, unless commercial broadcast
television has improved mightily since I last tuned in.
Cindy wrote:
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
television has improved mightily since I last tuned in.
Cindy wrote:
> Jessica Kelly wrote:--
> >
> > I would, however, argue that there's little valuable content
> > on commercial broadcast television, and whatever is valuable can in almost all
> > cases be found elsewhere in a more "healthy" format.
> >
> If a child is a visual learner, getting it from a book won't be as useful.
> And taking my children to Africa or China or wherever their interests might
> lead them isn't always a possibility.
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/02 4:25:02 PM, danandterrie@... writes:
<< Like I felt our values were infringed on
by playing the tv, knowing we did not enjoy it at all. What do you think? >>
I think smoking pot's illegal and watching TV isn't.
<< Like I felt our values were infringed on
by playing the tv, knowing we did not enjoy it at all. What do you think? >>
I think smoking pot's illegal and watching TV isn't.
Cindy
Jessica Kelly wrote:
"any other families without a TV". Sometimes local TV stations do
show national geographic specials.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>I thought you were talking about TV in general since the thread name is
> I don't think we're talking about the same thing, unless commercial broadcast
> television has improved mightily since I last tuned in.
>
"any other families without a TV". Sometimes local TV stations do
show national geographic specials.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
Abrahamson, Daniel & Teresa
I must admit, I am stunned, I mean stunned at the anger in some of these
messages, as I wrote in one of my emails, I did not want, desire or care to
convince or debate the value or lack of value of tv with others who are
users. I will also say the feeling of being attacked is shocking. I
participate in other list serves, and have not seen this type of behavior,
perhaps this is an isolated thread but it does not shed a good light on this
board. So as I have said: I simply noted a parent who was on this board
asking "is there any other parent on this board who does not use a tv? and
I desired to respond to her and make a connection. We seemed to be 1. a
minority, and 2. like minded so it was worth replying to her. I never
posted any argument to all the pro tv posts I had been seeing and reading
because as I have said repeatedly, its not my place to judge, and I may say
neither is it yours! It is not useful to continue to "debate" this issue
and defend my position to someone who disagrees because I really dont care
if you disagree with my post, I was not posting to create a discourse with
you, simply to make the connection with the parent who sounded like minded.
NOT a crime I think so I will leave this court room guilt free. I have
plenty of responses to your retorts below, but I cannot see the purpose in
continuing, with the one exception of answering your one question for a
resource and that is see it yourself in Mothering magazine, search the web
site if you don't get the magazine, or call/email the AAP yourself. It is a
quite well known recommendation that got a lot of attention (from both
sides) so I am surprised you did not know it. (perhaps it was not broadcast
on tv?)
Terrie
From: SandraDodd@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:06:46 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Video
and unschooling
In a message dated 1/28/02 3:00:03 PM, danandterrie@... writes:
<< So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son >>
You chose to.
Maybe watching TV with grandma would have been better for him.
To set the world up so that it's so easy to violate you makes life more
dangerous than it needs to be. Creating a fragile environment is not the
best way to unschool.
<<Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms)>>
I'm thinking we understand it better than you do.
<<I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point>>
The point is whether it's a logical belief, a defensible and productive
belief.
<<if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.>>
*IF* ?
Do you feel you shoudl be able to do whatever you want in your house
regardless of the presence of others?
<< In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. >>
There was a homeschooler with a two year old who told us with confidence
that
when his child was eight he would be reading the Bible in its original
languages.
I bet that didn't happen.
If you plan and predict the world in too narrow a channel, you'll be
disappointed. If you open up and accept good things happening, your world
will be larger and richer.
What if you have another child by the time you fell instinctively that it's
the right time to expose your first to television?
<<But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or
video)>>
Please find that quote and bring it here. Don't give us a webpage, give us
the quote.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
messages, as I wrote in one of my emails, I did not want, desire or care to
convince or debate the value or lack of value of tv with others who are
users. I will also say the feeling of being attacked is shocking. I
participate in other list serves, and have not seen this type of behavior,
perhaps this is an isolated thread but it does not shed a good light on this
board. So as I have said: I simply noted a parent who was on this board
asking "is there any other parent on this board who does not use a tv? and
I desired to respond to her and make a connection. We seemed to be 1. a
minority, and 2. like minded so it was worth replying to her. I never
posted any argument to all the pro tv posts I had been seeing and reading
because as I have said repeatedly, its not my place to judge, and I may say
neither is it yours! It is not useful to continue to "debate" this issue
and defend my position to someone who disagrees because I really dont care
if you disagree with my post, I was not posting to create a discourse with
you, simply to make the connection with the parent who sounded like minded.
NOT a crime I think so I will leave this court room guilt free. I have
plenty of responses to your retorts below, but I cannot see the purpose in
continuing, with the one exception of answering your one question for a
resource and that is see it yourself in Mothering magazine, search the web
site if you don't get the magazine, or call/email the AAP yourself. It is a
quite well known recommendation that got a lot of attention (from both
sides) so I am surprised you did not know it. (perhaps it was not broadcast
on tv?)
Terrie
From: SandraDodd@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:06:46 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Any other families without a TV Re: [AlwaysLearning] TV,Video
and unschooling
In a message dated 1/28/02 3:00:03 PM, danandterrie@... writes:
<< So it felt like a violation. She had a tv she could watch in her own
room upstairs but chose to turn on the one in the livingroom, and so we
needed to hide out in the tiny little bedroom with my son >>
You chose to.
Maybe watching TV with grandma would have been better for him.
To set the world up so that it's so easy to violate you makes life more
dangerous than it needs to be. Creating a fragile environment is not the
best way to unschool.
<<Although tv
viewers cannot understand this point of view (just like a smoker may not see
the big deal with smoke filled rooms)>>
I'm thinking we understand it better than you do.
<<I realize this is not a common belief,
but that is not the point>>
The point is whether it's a logical belief, a defensible and productive
belief.
<<if she felt she should be able to do whatever
she wants in her house, regardless of his or our presence.>>
*IF* ?
Do you feel you shoudl be able to do whatever you want in your house
regardless of the presence of others?
<< In fact I have a
plan for exposing him someday, when I feel instinctively the time is right,
and he has some stronger sense of self, and will be less able to be
disturbed or affected by the images as he will understand how unreal they
often are. >>
There was a homeschooler with a two year old who told us with confidence
that
when his child was eight he would be reading the Bible in its original
languages.
I bet that didn't happen.
If you plan and predict the world in too narrow a channel, you'll be
disappointed. If you open up and accept good things happening, your world
will be larger and richer.
What if you have another child by the time you fell instinctively that it's
the right time to expose your first to television?
<<But as I said (an amazingly even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees
in their statement that no child under age of 2 should view any tv or
video)>>
Please find that quote and bring it here. Don't give us a webpage, give us
the quote.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>i just wanted to add that we had this same experience -- that of not noticingI've always felt the same way, and I mostly avoid TV. *But* my dh loves TV
>how truly annoying (mind-numbing, desensitising, boring, whatever) tv, in
>general, is until we quit watching it for some time. we had a houseguest a
>couple of months ago who chose to turn the tv on one night -- to a show i'd
>watched and enjoyed years ago, no less -- and i was surprised by the lack of
>depth, jumpy images, etc. we have friends who've said the same thing -- that
>they knew they wouldn't MISS tv, but, after they'd quit watching for a while,
>were surprised how much it ANNOYED them when it was on.
and my son does too. He seems to do a lot of his learning by watching. We
didn't have a TV in the house for around 10 years. I thought I had the
perfect solution. There are 2 TVs next door at the in-laws, and my guys
would watch over there. At first, Lars wasn't comfortable alone in their
basement, so he really only watched when his dad did. Then he got
comfortable over there and started practically living there. They both
did. My dh basically moved his office over there and would watch while
doing paperwork.
It took me a long time, but I finally decided that having a home life
*with* TV was better than no home life without it. I was also concerned
about Lars sitting over there by himself night after night after we had
gone to bed. So last week we got a TV and cable. It's really not as bad
having it in the house as I thought it would be. They're keeping the
volume low enough so I can tune it out if I want to. (Very small
house) I've even been looking in the TV guide for things I might like to
watch. I doubt I'll ever watch much. (I'd much rather play the email
game.) But I think in the long run it's going to be a good thing. And I'm
also seeing what a variety of shows Lars watches. He watches stuff I'd
call junk, and I keep my mouth shut. But now that it's in the house, I see
how much he watches that I could call "educational". It really is an
important part of *his* education.
And the reason I finally agreed to TV in our house?.............the last TV
discussion on the other list.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
ECHSA
Hi Ariadna
You asked:
Does anyone here NOT have a TV?
Yes! We got rid of ours about a year ago. This after increasingly being
disappointed/disgusted/dismayed at the programming content (rather limited
in South-Africa, unless you have satellite TV). When we realised that there
hadn't been anything worth watching for the last (in our opinion of course)
for the last 3 months, and we still had to pay the TV license every month,
we began to rethink the situation. The kids had always enjoyed videos, but
then the video machine died on us. So the TV went. There were momentary
regrets, and every now and then one or another of us really wishes we had a
TV to watch (usually when we are feeling tired and would be better off
asleep), but on the whole none of us REALLY miss it. There are so many other
things to do. Since our parents died, hubby and I have become so much more
aware of the brevity of life. Maybe this has produced an unfair pressure in
our family - I don't know. But there are only 24 precious hours a day. I
love living life, not watching other people live it. However, I do like
reading, so I guess I am contradicting myself - reading is a kind of
''watching'', isn't it!!!
If we really want to watch something in particular, we pack up and head for
the office - there is a TV in the boardroom and the kids think it's great
fun, watching TV at dad's work! This is once every 2 months or so.
I don't regret the decision not to have a TV for now. We will see what
happens in the future. I guess that if it became a really important need for
a member of the family, we would consider the acquisition of another one,
along with a video machine (we always felt that we wouldn't want to have the
one without the other - we refuse to be dictated to by the time schedules of
a silly black box).
I know many people find TV useful/entertaining/helpful/whatever. We don't.
Blessings
Cathy
You asked:
Does anyone here NOT have a TV?
Yes! We got rid of ours about a year ago. This after increasingly being
disappointed/disgusted/dismayed at the programming content (rather limited
in South-Africa, unless you have satellite TV). When we realised that there
hadn't been anything worth watching for the last (in our opinion of course)
for the last 3 months, and we still had to pay the TV license every month,
we began to rethink the situation. The kids had always enjoyed videos, but
then the video machine died on us. So the TV went. There were momentary
regrets, and every now and then one or another of us really wishes we had a
TV to watch (usually when we are feeling tired and would be better off
asleep), but on the whole none of us REALLY miss it. There are so many other
things to do. Since our parents died, hubby and I have become so much more
aware of the brevity of life. Maybe this has produced an unfair pressure in
our family - I don't know. But there are only 24 precious hours a day. I
love living life, not watching other people live it. However, I do like
reading, so I guess I am contradicting myself - reading is a kind of
''watching'', isn't it!!!
If we really want to watch something in particular, we pack up and head for
the office - there is a TV in the boardroom and the kids think it's great
fun, watching TV at dad's work! This is once every 2 months or so.
I don't regret the decision not to have a TV for now. We will see what
happens in the future. I guess that if it became a really important need for
a member of the family, we would consider the acquisition of another one,
along with a video machine (we always felt that we wouldn't want to have the
one without the other - we refuse to be dictated to by the time schedules of
a silly black box).
I know many people find TV useful/entertaining/helpful/whatever. We don't.
Blessings
Cathy