Re: [AlwaysLearning]Powerlessness-was: a different gun question
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/2/2007 6:08:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jfetteroll@... writes:
I think the biggest problem is that people see children as broken and
evil. That the only reason that we're all not running amok is because
someone squashed the evil in us by making us go through the motions
of being good (no candy, no guns, no TV) until it was so ingrained
and we were old enough to tell ourselves to stop with the evil
thoughts that we wouldn't slip back.
<snip>
The people who are the *least* likely to beat you up are the people
who could mash you to a pulp. Just ask anyone with a black belt ;-)
When you have the confidence that you're powerful, there's no reason
to go around proving it.
Powerlessness is what causes people to shoot others, not guns.
Ah-HA! (The little lightbulb goes on over my head) Thanks, Joyce. I have
"heard" this repeatedly in unschooling discussions, but for some reason,
something in the way you said it *clicked*.
So, when my kids don't listen to me and I want to yell, I feel powerless. I
don't know what to *do* if I can't "punish" is my thought sometimes (not
always). So, how do I not feel powerless? Or do I actually want to feel powerful?
Is powerful different from *empowered*?
Sorry for the many posts today, folks-guess the unschooling thoughts are
just flowing today.
Peace,
De
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jfetteroll@... writes:
I think the biggest problem is that people see children as broken and
evil. That the only reason that we're all not running amok is because
someone squashed the evil in us by making us go through the motions
of being good (no candy, no guns, no TV) until it was so ingrained
and we were old enough to tell ourselves to stop with the evil
thoughts that we wouldn't slip back.
<snip>
The people who are the *least* likely to beat you up are the people
who could mash you to a pulp. Just ask anyone with a black belt ;-)
When you have the confidence that you're powerful, there's no reason
to go around proving it.
Powerlessness is what causes people to shoot others, not guns.
Ah-HA! (The little lightbulb goes on over my head) Thanks, Joyce. I have
"heard" this repeatedly in unschooling discussions, but for some reason,
something in the way you said it *clicked*.
So, when my kids don't listen to me and I want to yell, I feel powerless. I
don't know what to *do* if I can't "punish" is my thought sometimes (not
always). So, how do I not feel powerless? Or do I actually want to feel powerful?
Is powerful different from *empowered*?
Sorry for the many posts today, folks-guess the unschooling thoughts are
just flowing today.
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Joyce had written: "Powerlessness is what causes people to shoot
others, not guns."
De responded:
-=-Ah-HA! (The little lightbulb goes on over my head) Thanks, Joyce.
I have
"heard" this repeatedly in unschooling discussions, but for some reason,
something in the way you said it *clicked*.-=-
That happens with Joyce's writing lots of times!
-=-So, when my kids don't listen to me and I want to yell, I feel
powerless. I
don't know what to *do* if I can't "punish" is my thought sometimes (not
always). So, how do I not feel powerless? Or do I actually want to
feel powerful?
Is powerful different from *empowered*?-=-
I think Joyce was talking about the children feeling powerless, but
it works for moms too.
If your goal is to make your kids do exactly as you imagine they
should, you ARE powerless.
If your goal is to set a good example for them, you're not powerless
at all.
If your goal is to make their lives more pleasant in lots of little
ways, this list can empower you.
Empowerment comes from outside.
Being full of power has many aspects. You might become powerfully
good at unschooling. <g>
You have the power to screw your kids up (we all do).
Another thing Joyce mentioned was that strong people need to learn to
control their power.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
others, not guns."
De responded:
-=-Ah-HA! (The little lightbulb goes on over my head) Thanks, Joyce.
I have
"heard" this repeatedly in unschooling discussions, but for some reason,
something in the way you said it *clicked*.-=-
That happens with Joyce's writing lots of times!
-=-So, when my kids don't listen to me and I want to yell, I feel
powerless. I
don't know what to *do* if I can't "punish" is my thought sometimes (not
always). So, how do I not feel powerless? Or do I actually want to
feel powerful?
Is powerful different from *empowered*?-=-
I think Joyce was talking about the children feeling powerless, but
it works for moms too.
If your goal is to make your kids do exactly as you imagine they
should, you ARE powerless.
If your goal is to set a good example for them, you're not powerless
at all.
If your goal is to make their lives more pleasant in lots of little
ways, this list can empower you.
Empowerment comes from outside.
Being full of power has many aspects. You might become powerfully
good at unschooling. <g>
You have the power to screw your kids up (we all do).
Another thing Joyce mentioned was that strong people need to learn to
control their power.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenbgosh
> If your goal is to make your kids do exactly as you imagine theySandra, this was really, well, powerful! I think I'll print it out
> should, you ARE powerless. If your goal is to set a good example for
> them, you're not powerless at all.
and stick it somewhere where I will see it a lot.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/2007 8:28:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
If your goal is to make your kids do exactly as you imagine they
should, you ARE powerless.
When I posted, yesterday was fresh in my mind, where what seemed large to
*me* was instances where I was concerned about safety and wanted a "wait",
"stop", or pause so that I could express my concerns and see if we could
accommodate activities where they could continue in a safer way or if we could agree
on something similar that had less likelihood of major injury (mainly neck
and head injury from falling the wrong way or having someone fall on someone
else is my concern). I've tried different choices of words, and physically
interfering. Words get ignored and stopping the play myself (hug, stepping in,
joining in and redirecting) bring major protests that are too constant and loud
for anyone to hear anything I have to say. My boys are very rough and tumble,
high energy and I'm fine with most physical play, but there's sometimes when
they get so energized and in-the-moment that I *do* get concerned. They are
5 1/2 years apart and Wyl is *very* good most of the time about checking his
power, but sometimes he forgets. Storm (3) gets caught up in the "free for
all" attitude and jumps full weight (40+ pounds) onto belly, back, legs with
his full weight on his knees-if Wyl isn't complaining about that, I bite my
tongue, but there are times when Wyl wants it to stop. I've tried, "Ow means
stop" (and similar) reminders, but they mostly get ignored. We're able to work
through to win-win in other situations fairly easily and smoothly, such as:
concern over how an important toy is being used/hurt, private time, both
wanting the same thing, etc., but for some reason, it just doesn't seem to
translate in the physical play. Then my lack of "being heard" gets stirred in with my
concerns for safety/health and then old tapes start running through my head
and sometimes it gets to the point where I feel like its several "either-or"
choices-none of which are win-win...
<<<Another thing Joyce mentioned was that strong people need to learn to
control their power.>>>
Control it as in stopping it or control it as in redirecting?
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
If your goal is to make your kids do exactly as you imagine they
should, you ARE powerless.
When I posted, yesterday was fresh in my mind, where what seemed large to
*me* was instances where I was concerned about safety and wanted a "wait",
"stop", or pause so that I could express my concerns and see if we could
accommodate activities where they could continue in a safer way or if we could agree
on something similar that had less likelihood of major injury (mainly neck
and head injury from falling the wrong way or having someone fall on someone
else is my concern). I've tried different choices of words, and physically
interfering. Words get ignored and stopping the play myself (hug, stepping in,
joining in and redirecting) bring major protests that are too constant and loud
for anyone to hear anything I have to say. My boys are very rough and tumble,
high energy and I'm fine with most physical play, but there's sometimes when
they get so energized and in-the-moment that I *do* get concerned. They are
5 1/2 years apart and Wyl is *very* good most of the time about checking his
power, but sometimes he forgets. Storm (3) gets caught up in the "free for
all" attitude and jumps full weight (40+ pounds) onto belly, back, legs with
his full weight on his knees-if Wyl isn't complaining about that, I bite my
tongue, but there are times when Wyl wants it to stop. I've tried, "Ow means
stop" (and similar) reminders, but they mostly get ignored. We're able to work
through to win-win in other situations fairly easily and smoothly, such as:
concern over how an important toy is being used/hurt, private time, both
wanting the same thing, etc., but for some reason, it just doesn't seem to
translate in the physical play. Then my lack of "being heard" gets stirred in with my
concerns for safety/health and then old tapes start running through my head
and sometimes it gets to the point where I feel like its several "either-or"
choices-none of which are win-win...
<<<Another thing Joyce mentioned was that strong people need to learn to
control their power.>>>
Control it as in stopping it or control it as in redirecting?
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-<<<Another thing Joyce mentioned was that strong people need to
learn to
control their power.>>>
Control it as in stopping it or control it as in redirecting?-=-
Sometimes one, sometimes another.
I'm not sure if you're asking about controlling your own power (it
seems you're not having much, from your account) or whether it's
about helping your older son control his.
-=-Words get ignored and stopping the play myself (hug, stepping in,
joining in and redirecting) bring major protests that are too
constant and loud
for anyone to hear anything I have to say.-=-
Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?
I'm just guessing. Sometimes when a person talks too much, others
start to tune him out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
learn to
control their power.>>>
Control it as in stopping it or control it as in redirecting?-=-
Sometimes one, sometimes another.
I'm not sure if you're asking about controlling your own power (it
seems you're not having much, from your account) or whether it's
about helping your older son control his.
-=-Words get ignored and stopping the play myself (hug, stepping in,
joining in and redirecting) bring major protests that are too
constant and loud
for anyone to hear anything I have to say.-=-
Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?
I'm just guessing. Sometimes when a person talks too much, others
start to tune him out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/2007 11:25:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?
The answer was, ".... yeah........." and when I asked for help in figuring
out how I can express my concerns I got "nevermind." and he walked off. I don't
often get answers or help from Wyl :~) When I *do* get help in solving
stuff, he comes up with great stuff!
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?
The answer was, ".... yeah........." and when I asked for help in figuring
out how I can express my concerns I got "nevermind." and he walked off. I don't
often get answers or help from Wyl :~) When I *do* get help in solving
stuff, he comes up with great stuff!
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/2007 11:25:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
<<<I'm not sure if you're asking about controlling your own power (it
seems you're not having much, from your account) or whether it's
about helping your older son control his.>>>
I'm pretty sure I'm asking about controlling my own, because I feel he does
pretty good with his own, and that better control on his part will come with
time and experience. He has much more freedom and experience doing that than
I did as a child. And more support.
<<<Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?>>>
Its entirely possible. *I* think my talking has shrunken to a very small
amount and sometimes I do catch myself and know that I'm talking too much.
However, their perception is likely to be different than mine. They both feel
comfortable speaking up and telling me when they're done listening or to "stop
talking"... not often (IMO)... not once a week... more than once a month...
I'll ask and see if I get an answer. Thanks.
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
<<<I'm not sure if you're asking about controlling your own power (it
seems you're not having much, from your account) or whether it's
about helping your older son control his.>>>
I'm pretty sure I'm asking about controlling my own, because I feel he does
pretty good with his own, and that better control on his part will come with
time and experience. He has much more freedom and experience doing that than
I did as a child. And more support.
<<<Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?>>>
Its entirely possible. *I* think my talking has shrunken to a very small
amount and sometimes I do catch myself and know that I'm talking too much.
However, their perception is likely to be different than mine. They both feel
comfortable speaking up and telling me when they're done listening or to "stop
talking"... not often (IMO)... not once a week... more than once a month...
I'll ask and see if I get an answer. Thanks.
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
constant?
-=-The answer was, ".... yeah........."-=-
You went and asked him?
I wouldn't have recommended that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
constant?
-=-The answer was, ".... yeah........."-=-
You went and asked him?
I wouldn't have recommended that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Nov 9, 2007, at 8:23 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
than a mom; don't stop the play, just ask for a break in the action.
Offer a snack or a drink, let them catch their breath, make sure both
are OK. Be sure they know you're not just killing their fun. A
whistle might be a fun addition to the game :-)
When my kids were little, the really rough play was Dad's gig. As soon
as he got home, they'd play "Daddy in the dungeon," which meant
rassling him on the bed. I just scrolled back in my mailbox to see if
your dh was available for this, and saw a post where you said he was
working in North Carolina; are you wrangling these boys alone right
now? It could be their needs for roughhousing and your tolerance for
it aren't matching up. Could you find more outlets for boy play, maybe
with other kids?
Nancy
> -=-Words get ignored and stopping the play myself (hug, stepping in,Can you call a "Time Out," like in sports? Act more like a referee
> joining in and redirecting) bring major protests that are too
> constant and loud
> for anyone to hear anything I have to say.-=-
>
> Is it possible that your kids might think of your own words as too
> constant?
>
> I'm just guessing. Sometimes when a person talks too much, others
> start to tune him out.
than a mom; don't stop the play, just ask for a break in the action.
Offer a snack or a drink, let them catch their breath, make sure both
are OK. Be sure they know you're not just killing their fun. A
whistle might be a fun addition to the game :-)
When my kids were little, the really rough play was Dad's gig. As soon
as he got home, they'd play "Daddy in the dungeon," which meant
rassling him on the bed. I just scrolled back in my mailbox to see if
your dh was available for this, and saw a post where you said he was
working in North Carolina; are you wrangling these boys alone right
now? It could be their needs for roughhousing and your tolerance for
it aren't matching up. Could you find more outlets for boy play, maybe
with other kids?
Nancy
Sandra Dodd
-=-Could you find more outlets for boy play, maybe
with other kids?-=-
OH! Good idea.
When my kids were young and my husband was working in Minneapolis, I
used to take mine to parks two or three times a week, with the dog,
with toys, and let them run and climb and swing and slide and roll
around. It did seem to help.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with other kids?-=-
OH! Good idea.
When my kids were young and my husband was working in Minneapolis, I
used to take mine to parks two or three times a week, with the dog,
with toys, and let them run and climb and swing and slide and roll
around. It did seem to help.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/2007 12:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nancywooton@... writes:
I just scrolled back in my mailbox to see if
your dh was available for this, and saw a post where you said he was
working in North Carolina; are you wrangling these boys alone right
now? It could be their needs for roughhousing and your tolerance for
it aren't matching up.
Yes, Monday through Friday, Dave is out of state working. He's not really up
for rough play when he gets home... I'm pretty good with rough play,
myself-especially if I have a bra on ;~) We have tickle-fights and
toss-me-in-the-bed type wrestling with myself and one boy... Occasionally I can do both, but
they overwhelm me together, when it comes to wrestling. They seem to get a LOT
out of wrestling with each other-even when there's other kids in a setting
where wrestling is a go, they tend to seek each other out. Its the first thing
they do every morning, before we get out of bed. :~) They'd go on for an
hour if I didn't mention breakfast LOL
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nancywooton@... writes:
I just scrolled back in my mailbox to see if
your dh was available for this, and saw a post where you said he was
working in North Carolina; are you wrangling these boys alone right
now? It could be their needs for roughhousing and your tolerance for
it aren't matching up.
Yes, Monday through Friday, Dave is out of state working. He's not really up
for rough play when he gets home... I'm pretty good with rough play,
myself-especially if I have a bra on ;~) We have tickle-fights and
toss-me-in-the-bed type wrestling with myself and one boy... Occasionally I can do both, but
they overwhelm me together, when it comes to wrestling. They seem to get a LOT
out of wrestling with each other-even when there's other kids in a setting
where wrestling is a go, they tend to seek each other out. Its the first thing
they do every morning, before we get out of bed. :~) They'd go on for an
hour if I didn't mention breakfast LOL
Peace,
De
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]