anger and sadness in 5 yo
chillmidcoastcom
hi, I've been lurking about in here long enough to know that I
respect your opinions, and I need help from like minded folk (hard to
find outside of cyberspace).
We try to exist in a nuturing home environment, one that validates
all feelings, not just the good. With 8 and 5 year old boys, we are
relatively new to unschooling, and so relieved to have finally found
an "educational philosophy" that fits my heart and intuition.
My 5 year old seems to perpetually be in an angry or sad state. The
example that I bring to you today is: I took the boys shopping for
some cheap-o toys, just for fun. They were browsing around, picking
up a few things, here and there, when all of a sudden the 5 year old
yells at me, "Ryan (8 yo) CAN NOT TOUCH ANY of my things. These are
mine!" I responded, "Oh, you don't want Ryan to touch your new
things, hmm, I see" The conversation went on like this
a couple of times when he screamed out "Stop talking to me! I HATE
YOU!!". So, I crouched down, said, "It is okay for you to be angry at
me, or frustrated, or WHATEVER, but it is NOT okay for you to yell at
me" He just collapsed in my arms for a hug. SO we make our purchases
and we get to the car and I asked him if he was okay. He replied
(this is verbatim), "Yah, I'm okay; it is just so hard for me to feel
excited."
Do you have any suggestions how we can work through these hard
feelings? They are hard, because they make HIM so miserable, and it
is not on rare occassion. I understand that being
sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
anything with helping him to feel supported? The above is a typical
reaction from me. Any suggestions?
Sorry to ramble, but I feel like I really need some advice.
Thanks for just being here,
Cynthia
respect your opinions, and I need help from like minded folk (hard to
find outside of cyberspace).
We try to exist in a nuturing home environment, one that validates
all feelings, not just the good. With 8 and 5 year old boys, we are
relatively new to unschooling, and so relieved to have finally found
an "educational philosophy" that fits my heart and intuition.
My 5 year old seems to perpetually be in an angry or sad state. The
example that I bring to you today is: I took the boys shopping for
some cheap-o toys, just for fun. They were browsing around, picking
up a few things, here and there, when all of a sudden the 5 year old
yells at me, "Ryan (8 yo) CAN NOT TOUCH ANY of my things. These are
mine!" I responded, "Oh, you don't want Ryan to touch your new
things, hmm, I see" The conversation went on like this
a couple of times when he screamed out "Stop talking to me! I HATE
YOU!!". So, I crouched down, said, "It is okay for you to be angry at
me, or frustrated, or WHATEVER, but it is NOT okay for you to yell at
me" He just collapsed in my arms for a hug. SO we make our purchases
and we get to the car and I asked him if he was okay. He replied
(this is verbatim), "Yah, I'm okay; it is just so hard for me to feel
excited."
Do you have any suggestions how we can work through these hard
feelings? They are hard, because they make HIM so miserable, and it
is not on rare occassion. I understand that being
sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
anything with helping him to feel supported? The above is a typical
reaction from me. Any suggestions?
Sorry to ramble, but I feel like I really need some advice.
Thanks for just being here,
Cynthia
michmdmama
I am listening intently because I struggle with this with my daughter.
We have noticed that red dye has some effect on her anger, but so do
other things. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was trying
to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
Lilly. Thanks for asking this.
Amanda
--- In [email protected], "chillmidcoastcom"
<chill74@...> wrote:
We have noticed that red dye has some effect on her anger, but so do
other things. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was trying
to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
Lilly. Thanks for asking this.
Amanda
--- In [email protected], "chillmidcoastcom"
<chill74@...> wrote:
> Do you have any suggestions how we can work through these hard
> feelings? They are hard, because they make HIM so miserable, and it
> is not on rare occassion. I understand that being
> sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
> for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
> anything with helping him to feel supported? The above is a typical
> reaction from me. Any suggestions?
>
> Sorry to ramble, but I feel like I really need some advice.
> Thanks for just being here,
> Cynthia
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was trying
to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
Lilly.-=-
But what happened before the meltdown?
Was she hungry? Tired? Sick? Did she want to go to the store or
was she there against her will? Did she want to walk but being made
to ride in the cart? Was she overwhelmed by the size and busy-ness
of the store? Were you near soap or candles and was the smell
irritating her but she wasn't able to just walk away (or might not
have realized what it was as an adult might). Did she not like the
changes of temperature from freezer aisle to bakery, but isn't old
enough to realize what's what and why at the store? Were the smells
of bread or barbecue making her hungry without her knowing?
I still remember being little and in the store and frustrated when my
mom would stop and read cans. We'd be moving, and then it would all
go still and boring.
Some kids don't much like stores.
I used to let the littlest kid (if he or she wanted to) sit in the
basket of the cart and arrange the groceries in and around him, and I
would keep up a steady stream of conversation. I never just looked
at packages, I would tell them what I was looking at and why, whether
it was ingredients or price or whatever it might be. I would tell
them stories about things we weren't going to buy, just whatever
might be interesting, like different kinds of squash from Mexico, or
things grown locally. If there were South American grapes I might
mention that it was winter here, but not in Chile.
Are the parents stressed and complaining at the store? Or are you
hungry or tired or sick or bothered by the size or smells?
Our moods affect our children's moods. If I was being attentive and
funny and pleasant and sympathetic to them from before we even got in
the store it's like they went with me to do something cool, instead
of having to be dragged along to where I had to do something I didn't
really want to do.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
Lilly.-=-
But what happened before the meltdown?
Was she hungry? Tired? Sick? Did she want to go to the store or
was she there against her will? Did she want to walk but being made
to ride in the cart? Was she overwhelmed by the size and busy-ness
of the store? Were you near soap or candles and was the smell
irritating her but she wasn't able to just walk away (or might not
have realized what it was as an adult might). Did she not like the
changes of temperature from freezer aisle to bakery, but isn't old
enough to realize what's what and why at the store? Were the smells
of bread or barbecue making her hungry without her knowing?
I still remember being little and in the store and frustrated when my
mom would stop and read cans. We'd be moving, and then it would all
go still and boring.
Some kids don't much like stores.
I used to let the littlest kid (if he or she wanted to) sit in the
basket of the cart and arrange the groceries in and around him, and I
would keep up a steady stream of conversation. I never just looked
at packages, I would tell them what I was looking at and why, whether
it was ingredients or price or whatever it might be. I would tell
them stories about things we weren't going to buy, just whatever
might be interesting, like different kinds of squash from Mexico, or
things grown locally. If there were South American grapes I might
mention that it was winter here, but not in Chile.
Are the parents stressed and complaining at the store? Or are you
hungry or tired or sick or bothered by the size or smells?
Our moods affect our children's moods. If I was being attentive and
funny and pleasant and sympathetic to them from before we even got in
the store it's like they went with me to do something cool, instead
of having to be dragged along to where I had to do something I didn't
really want to do.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Estella Schmelter
I struggle with this same thing with my almost 5 yo. He gets so upset sometimes and can't explain why he is mad. He actually will try and hurt himself too like hitting himself or banging his head on something. Sometimes he will call names (which really aren't bad names but he tries to use them that way :) I can just feel is frustrating running through him but don't really know how to help prevent it or make him feel better once it is happening!
Look forward to more responses with hopeful advice!
Estella
michmdmama <horein@...> wrote:
I am listening intently because I struggle with this with my daughter.
We have noticed that red dye has some effect on her anger, but so do
other things. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was trying
to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
Lilly. Thanks for asking this.
Amanda
--- In [email protected], "chillmidcoastcom"
<chill74@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Look forward to more responses with hopeful advice!
Estella
michmdmama <horein@...> wrote:
I am listening intently because I struggle with this with my daughter.
We have noticed that red dye has some effect on her anger, but so do
other things. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was trying
to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
Lilly. Thanks for asking this.
Amanda
--- In [email protected], "chillmidcoastcom"
<chill74@...> wrote:
> Do you have any suggestions how we can work through these hard__________________________________________________
> feelings? They are hard, because they make HIM so miserable, and it
> is not on rare occassion. I understand that being
> sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
> for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
> anything with helping him to feel supported? The above is a typical
> reaction from me. Any suggestions?
>
> Sorry to ramble, but I feel like I really need some advice.
> Thanks for just being here,
> Cynthia
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda Horein
-=-Was she hungry? Tired? Sick? Did she want to go to the store or was she
there against her will? Did she want to walk but being made to ride in the
cart? Was she overwhelmed by the size and busy-ness of the store? Were you
near soap or candles and was the smell irritating her but she wasn't able to
just walk away (or might not have realized what it was as an adult might).
Did she not like the changes of temperature from freezer aisle to bakery,
but isn't old enough to realize what's what and why at the store? Were the
smells of bread or barbecue making her hungry without her knowing?-=-
Yes! Nearly all of the above. Well, we had just eaten so I don't think she
was hungry. She was tired, but I didn't know it until she fell asleep in
the car on the way home. I asked her if she was tired and she said "no" of
course, but because of previous experience with me (my fault I know) she
thinks that being tired during the day means she has to nap.
She did want to go in the store. We asked her first. She wanted to ride in
the cart, but was walking and I didn't realize this was the problem at first
as it is unlike her. When I did realize this I fixed.
She probably was overwhelmed, it was Toys R Us and all the colors and
activities available... I can see that.
I think what *I* am wanting, and maybe the other mom too, is how to deal
with things when we (we, as in the adults) make mistakes. I know that I
need to be more observant and I am working my best at that. AND I am
getting better, but meltdowns still happen (just much less than they used
to). What I really need to know is what I can do when the meltdown is in
progress. I asked Lil if she wanted to leave, but of course she didn't and
she doesn't always know the words to express what is wrong.
Maybe I am not asking the wrong questions. I know what I am doing is the
wrong way to deal with things. What I struggle with is having a substitute
available for when *I* make mistakes. Does that make sense?
---
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there against her will? Did she want to walk but being made to ride in the
cart? Was she overwhelmed by the size and busy-ness of the store? Were you
near soap or candles and was the smell irritating her but she wasn't able to
just walk away (or might not have realized what it was as an adult might).
Did she not like the changes of temperature from freezer aisle to bakery,
but isn't old enough to realize what's what and why at the store? Were the
smells of bread or barbecue making her hungry without her knowing?-=-
Yes! Nearly all of the above. Well, we had just eaten so I don't think she
was hungry. She was tired, but I didn't know it until she fell asleep in
the car on the way home. I asked her if she was tired and she said "no" of
course, but because of previous experience with me (my fault I know) she
thinks that being tired during the day means she has to nap.
She did want to go in the store. We asked her first. She wanted to ride in
the cart, but was walking and I didn't realize this was the problem at first
as it is unlike her. When I did realize this I fixed.
She probably was overwhelmed, it was Toys R Us and all the colors and
activities available... I can see that.
I think what *I* am wanting, and maybe the other mom too, is how to deal
with things when we (we, as in the adults) make mistakes. I know that I
need to be more observant and I am working my best at that. AND I am
getting better, but meltdowns still happen (just much less than they used
to). What I really need to know is what I can do when the meltdown is in
progress. I asked Lil if she wanted to leave, but of course she didn't and
she doesn't always know the words to express what is wrong.
Maybe I am not asking the wrong questions. I know what I am doing is the
wrong way to deal with things. What I struggle with is having a substitute
available for when *I* make mistakes. Does that make sense?
---
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Amanda Horein wrote:
overwhelming. My dd nearly fainted in a Toys R Us once, and she must
have been 14 or so. I can't stand stores like Costco or the old Price
Club (nearly fainted in one of them years ago). I'm not really sure
why, either; I thought it was the high, close aisles packed with stuff,
but I don't feel the same in Home Depot.
Nancy
>I'm a grown up, and I can't take much of that place; I find it
> She probably was overwhelmed, it was Toys R Us and all the colors and
> activities available... I can see that.
>
overwhelming. My dd nearly fainted in a Toys R Us once, and she must
have been 14 or so. I can't stand stores like Costco or the old Price
Club (nearly fainted in one of them years ago). I'm not really sure
why, either; I thought it was the high, close aisles packed with stuff,
but I don't feel the same in Home Depot.
Nancy
missalexmissalex
Toys R Us makes me really anxious too. There are always families
yelling at each other and/or just treating each other in ways I feel
strongly are not OK.
Alex
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...>
wrote:
yelling at each other and/or just treating each other in ways I feel
strongly are not OK.
Alex
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...>
wrote:
>and
>
> On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Amanda Horein wrote:
>
> >
> > She probably was overwhelmed, it was Toys R Us and all the colors
> > activities available... I can see that.must
> >
>
> I'm a grown up, and I can't take much of that place; I find it
> overwhelming. My dd nearly fainted in a Toys R Us once, and she
> have been 14 or so. I can't stand stores like Costco or the oldPrice
> Club (nearly fainted in one of them years ago). I'm not reallysure
> why, either; I thought it was the high, close aisles packed withstuff,
> but I don't feel the same in Home Depot.
>
> Nancy
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Amanda Horein wrote:
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible.
Like, if you suddenly realize that walking around in toys-r-us is
overwhelming and now she's having a meltdown, then get yourself
really calm and soft and squat down at her level and don't look tense
and keep your voice gentle and say soothing things. And - don't ask
questions at that time - it adds to the frustration because the poor
kid is already on overload and now you're expecting her to think
clearly about what it is she wants? Be honest and sympathetic - say,
"Oh gosh, this place is kind of overwhelming. Let's go out and get
lunch or ice cream or something, for now, and maybe come back when
they aren't so busy." If she screams, "NOOOOO I don't want to go,"
then you can move on, very gently, with, "Oh, okay, then let's go
look at the dolls for a while." In other words, you offer - don't
ask. Then your response is based on her reaction. Try to develop your
own interpersonal intelligence as much as you can - try to think from
her point of view, try to offer what you think would help her be more
happy.
to) and that might be some of the source of her frustration. I'm
picturing a combination of you not thinking ahead well enough and you
expecting her to be able to think ahead too well. Like, you might ask
her, "Do you want to go to Toys-R-Us?" and she says, "Yes," and you
just take that as a complete answer. But you're the mom, you have to
think deeper - why does she want to go, what is SHE thinking it will
be like, when is a good time for her to be there, will she want to
sit in the cart or run around, is she thinking that "go" means "buy
toys" or maybe "play with toys?" You have to think about "her" - the
real child and what she can handle.
And, below, you say maybe you're asking the wrong questions - I think
maybe you're onto something there, but that it is that you're asking
too much of her. I think maybe you're just asking too many questions.
Think more in terms of offering, supporting, encouraging - less in
terms of "asking" her to decide or choose. I think you'll find that
reduced her frustration levels.
mind. BEFORE you even bring it up to her, think, "Okay, thinking
about going to Toys-R-Us --- that means a series of possible
activities -- (1) getting ready and maybe interrupting ongoing
activities (2) car ride (3) time in the store (4) needing to leave
the store (5) time spent in line (6) car ride afterward. You have to
consider each of those - play out a couple of scenarios in your head
for each so you have some options in mind before you even bring it up
to her.
Toys-R-Us is a pretty big deal stressful activity for a young child -
took a fairly large amount of preparation - I might say: "I'm wanting
to go to Toys-R-Us and here is what I have in mind -- going in about
an hour, eating a sandwich before we go, getting dressed in pants and
shirt and shoes, listening to our new Beatles cd in the car on the
way, you can sit in the cart or walk around the store and look at
toys and help me pick something out for your cousin's birthday
present, if you find something you want to buy that costs less than
$5 we can buy that, too. Does that all sound okay to you?"
The child might have something to say about all this - "Mom, can we
have turkey sandwiches?" or "I want to sit in the cart." Or whatever
- me listing what I have in mind, what I'm picturing happening, is an
invitation for her to add to it or object to parts of it, but mostly
it means we are less likely to get into a situation where we have
very different expectations.
Based on past experience, with my middle child, I would also have
said, "This is one of those stores that can be totally overwhelming,
so if you start to feel like that, just say so and we'll cut it short."
IF she had a meltdown in Toys-R-Us, I would figure out what the
problem was and learn from it in order not to bring it about again.
Generalize to other similar situations. Did I not feed her enough
before we left so she was a little hungry? Then next time, bring some
crackers or cheese or granola bars or something along for her to
munch on in the car on the way. Was it too much to expect her to help
shop for toys for another child? Then eliminate that problem by not
asking her to do it again - or maybe let her pick out something for
herself at the same time. And so on.
She might be, like me, really sensitive to the sound in big stores
and shopping malls - that horrible "echo" kind of sound creates a lot
of stress in me - over a period of half an hour the stress builds up
and it is like I start not being able to think, all I can do is sort
of protect my brain from that background sound. I get cranky, short-
tempered, really really tired. I've mentioned this to people who
claim they don't even know what "sound" I'm talking about - so
obviously it doesn't affect everyone the same way. I like the "idea"
of going shopping - hanging out with my friends or daughters and
looking, together, at clothes and things, but the reality of it, for
me, is not at all comfortable.
So - YOU have to figure this out - you are like a detective in a way,
or a psychiatrist, trying to understand what your own child is like
based on all the clues/evidence. You come to understand how she is
experiencing the world, and then you try to support her in ways that
work best for her.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
> I think what *I* am wanting, and maybe the other mom too, is how to
> deal
> with things when we (we, as in the adults) make mistakes.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible.
Like, if you suddenly realize that walking around in toys-r-us is
overwhelming and now she's having a meltdown, then get yourself
really calm and soft and squat down at her level and don't look tense
and keep your voice gentle and say soothing things. And - don't ask
questions at that time - it adds to the frustration because the poor
kid is already on overload and now you're expecting her to think
clearly about what it is she wants? Be honest and sympathetic - say,
"Oh gosh, this place is kind of overwhelming. Let's go out and get
lunch or ice cream or something, for now, and maybe come back when
they aren't so busy." If she screams, "NOOOOO I don't want to go,"
then you can move on, very gently, with, "Oh, okay, then let's go
look at the dolls for a while." In other words, you offer - don't
ask. Then your response is based on her reaction. Try to develop your
own interpersonal intelligence as much as you can - try to think from
her point of view, try to offer what you think would help her be more
happy.
> I know that IJust from your post, I felt like you're pressuring her (not meaning
> need to be more observant and I am working my best at that. AND I am
> getting better, but meltdowns still happen (just much less than
> they used
> to). What I really need to know is what I can do when the meltdown
> is in
> progress. I asked Lil if she wanted to leave, but of course she
> didn't and
> she doesn't always know the words to express what is wrong.
to) and that might be some of the source of her frustration. I'm
picturing a combination of you not thinking ahead well enough and you
expecting her to be able to think ahead too well. Like, you might ask
her, "Do you want to go to Toys-R-Us?" and she says, "Yes," and you
just take that as a complete answer. But you're the mom, you have to
think deeper - why does she want to go, what is SHE thinking it will
be like, when is a good time for her to be there, will she want to
sit in the cart or run around, is she thinking that "go" means "buy
toys" or maybe "play with toys?" You have to think about "her" - the
real child and what she can handle.
And, below, you say maybe you're asking the wrong questions - I think
maybe you're onto something there, but that it is that you're asking
too much of her. I think maybe you're just asking too many questions.
Think more in terms of offering, supporting, encouraging - less in
terms of "asking" her to decide or choose. I think you'll find that
reduced her frustration levels.
>Yes. So - from now on, before you go somewhere, have some ideas in
> Maybe I am not asking the wrong questions. I know what I am doing
> is the
> wrong way to deal with things. What I struggle with is having a
> substitute
> available for when *I* make mistakes. Does that make sense?
mind. BEFORE you even bring it up to her, think, "Okay, thinking
about going to Toys-R-Us --- that means a series of possible
activities -- (1) getting ready and maybe interrupting ongoing
activities (2) car ride (3) time in the store (4) needing to leave
the store (5) time spent in line (6) car ride afterward. You have to
consider each of those - play out a couple of scenarios in your head
for each so you have some options in mind before you even bring it up
to her.
Toys-R-Us is a pretty big deal stressful activity for a young child -
took a fairly large amount of preparation - I might say: "I'm wanting
to go to Toys-R-Us and here is what I have in mind -- going in about
an hour, eating a sandwich before we go, getting dressed in pants and
shirt and shoes, listening to our new Beatles cd in the car on the
way, you can sit in the cart or walk around the store and look at
toys and help me pick something out for your cousin's birthday
present, if you find something you want to buy that costs less than
$5 we can buy that, too. Does that all sound okay to you?"
The child might have something to say about all this - "Mom, can we
have turkey sandwiches?" or "I want to sit in the cart." Or whatever
- me listing what I have in mind, what I'm picturing happening, is an
invitation for her to add to it or object to parts of it, but mostly
it means we are less likely to get into a situation where we have
very different expectations.
Based on past experience, with my middle child, I would also have
said, "This is one of those stores that can be totally overwhelming,
so if you start to feel like that, just say so and we'll cut it short."
IF she had a meltdown in Toys-R-Us, I would figure out what the
problem was and learn from it in order not to bring it about again.
Generalize to other similar situations. Did I not feed her enough
before we left so she was a little hungry? Then next time, bring some
crackers or cheese or granola bars or something along for her to
munch on in the car on the way. Was it too much to expect her to help
shop for toys for another child? Then eliminate that problem by not
asking her to do it again - or maybe let her pick out something for
herself at the same time. And so on.
She might be, like me, really sensitive to the sound in big stores
and shopping malls - that horrible "echo" kind of sound creates a lot
of stress in me - over a period of half an hour the stress builds up
and it is like I start not being able to think, all I can do is sort
of protect my brain from that background sound. I get cranky, short-
tempered, really really tired. I've mentioned this to people who
claim they don't even know what "sound" I'm talking about - so
obviously it doesn't affect everyone the same way. I like the "idea"
of going shopping - hanging out with my friends or daughters and
looking, together, at clothes and things, but the reality of it, for
me, is not at all comfortable.
So - YOU have to figure this out - you are like a detective in a way,
or a psychiatrist, trying to understand what your own child is like
based on all the clues/evidence. You come to understand how she is
experiencing the world, and then you try to support her in ways that
work best for her.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
When begining my unschooling journey I asked what to do with a
strong willed- defiant- violent 2 yr old and the response I got was--
- What is the underlying need that this child has-----
I thought about that for a while and knew that this child needed to
be able to do the things she thought she wanted to do. I had to not
have rules and punishments BUT find a way to help her get what she
wanted.
So what is it that your child is angry and sad about? What does the
child want that they are NOT getting
this child just turned 3 and now will come ask to do something wild
and crazy instead of just doing it- she is a experimentor scientist
and had to try things to understand them
she has a need to check stuff out and see what happens without me
saying NO NO NO...
--- In [email protected], Estella Schmelter
<proudwahm@...> wrote:
try and hurt himself too like hitting himself or banging his head on
something. Sometimes he will call names (which really aren't bad
names but he tries to use them that way :) I can just feel is
frustrating running through him but don't really know how to help
prevent it or make him feel better once it is happening!
strong willed- defiant- violent 2 yr old and the response I got was--
- What is the underlying need that this child has-----
I thought about that for a while and knew that this child needed to
be able to do the things she thought she wanted to do. I had to not
have rules and punishments BUT find a way to help her get what she
wanted.
So what is it that your child is angry and sad about? What does the
child want that they are NOT getting
this child just turned 3 and now will come ask to do something wild
and crazy instead of just doing it- she is a experimentor scientist
and had to try things to understand them
she has a need to check stuff out and see what happens without me
saying NO NO NO...
--- In [email protected], Estella Schmelter
<proudwahm@...> wrote:
>upset sometimes and can't explain why he is mad. He actually will
> I struggle with this same thing with my almost 5 yo. He gets so
try and hurt himself too like hitting himself or banging his head on
something. Sometimes he will call names (which really aren't bad
names but he tries to use them that way :) I can just feel is
frustrating running through him but don't really know how to help
prevent it or make him feel better once it is happening!
>with my daughter.
> Look forward to more responses with hopeful advice!
> Estella
>
> michmdmama <horein@...> wrote:
> I am listening intently because I struggle with this
> We have noticed that red dye has some effect on her anger, but sodo
> other things. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was tryingit
> to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
> Lilly. Thanks for asking this.
>
> Amanda
>
> --- In [email protected], "chillmidcoastcom"
> <chill74@> wrote:
>
> > Do you have any suggestions how we can work through these hard
> > feelings? They are hard, because they make HIM so miserable, and
> > is not on rare occassion. I understand that beingtypical
> > sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
> > for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
> > anything with helping him to feel supported? The above is a
> > reaction from me. Any suggestions?
> >
> > Sorry to ramble, but I feel like I really need some advice.
> > Thanks for just being here,
> > Cynthia
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Estella Schmelter
Wow this is a great idea! I will try and put more of this into action. I do notice when I'm not too busy with everything he deals with things better. He really always wants me to give him all of my attention and obviously with 2 other kids that is hard to do. I will start saying Yes more and No less and see how that works.
Thanks so much!
Estella
wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
When begining my unschooling journey I asked what to do with a
strong willed- defiant- violent 2 yr old and the response I got was--
- What is the underlying need that this child has-----
I thought about that for a while and knew that this child needed to
be able to do the things she thought she wanted to do. I had to not
have rules and punishments BUT find a way to help her get what she
wanted.
So what is it that your child is angry and sad about? What does the
child want that they are NOT getting
this child just turned 3 and now will come ask to do something wild
and crazy instead of just doing it- she is a experimentor scientist
and had to try things to understand them
she has a need to check stuff out and see what happens without me
saying NO NO NO...
--- In [email protected], Estella Schmelter
<proudwahm@...> wrote:
try and hurt himself too like hitting himself or banging his head on
something. Sometimes he will call names (which really aren't bad
names but he tries to use them that way :) I can just feel is
frustrating running through him but don't really know how to help
prevent it or make him feel better once it is happening!
Estella Schmelter
Senior Director
Mom to Junior,Hunter & Baby Jalynn
Phone: 517-748-9344
Your Life, Your Dreams,
Your Business....Find Out Today!!
www.WorkAtHomeUnitedSuccess.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks so much!
Estella
wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
When begining my unschooling journey I asked what to do with a
strong willed- defiant- violent 2 yr old and the response I got was--
- What is the underlying need that this child has-----
I thought about that for a while and knew that this child needed to
be able to do the things she thought she wanted to do. I had to not
have rules and punishments BUT find a way to help her get what she
wanted.
So what is it that your child is angry and sad about? What does the
child want that they are NOT getting
this child just turned 3 and now will come ask to do something wild
and crazy instead of just doing it- she is a experimentor scientist
and had to try things to understand them
she has a need to check stuff out and see what happens without me
saying NO NO NO...
--- In [email protected], Estella Schmelter
<proudwahm@...> wrote:
>upset sometimes and can't explain why he is mad. He actually will
> I struggle with this same thing with my almost 5 yo. He gets so
try and hurt himself too like hitting himself or banging his head on
something. Sometimes he will call names (which really aren't bad
names but he tries to use them that way :) I can just feel is
frustrating running through him but don't really know how to help
prevent it or make him feel better once it is happening!
>with my daughter.
> Look forward to more responses with hopeful advice!
> Estella
>
> michmdmama <horein@...> wrote:
> I am listening intently because I struggle with this
> We have noticed that red dye has some effect on her anger, but sodo
> other things. We had a meltdown in the store today and I was tryingit
> to figure out was was wrong, but failing miserably at comforting
> Lilly. Thanks for asking this.
>
> Amanda
>
> --- In [email protected], "chillmidcoastcom"
> <chill74@> wrote:
>
> > Do you have any suggestions how we can work through these hard
> > feelings? They are hard, because they make HIM so miserable, and
> > is not on rare occassion. I understand that beingtypical
> > sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
> > for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
> > anything with helping him to feel supported? The above is a
> > reaction from me. Any suggestions?Work At Home United!!
> >
> > Sorry to ramble, but I feel like I really need some advice.
> > Thanks for just being here,
> > Cynthia
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Estella Schmelter
Senior Director
Mom to Junior,Hunter & Baby Jalynn
Phone: 517-748-9344
Your Life, Your Dreams,
Your Business....Find Out Today!!
www.WorkAtHomeUnitedSuccess.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Pam Sorooshian wrote:
-=-There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. -=-
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html
Mothering During a Meltdown
http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn
Understanding Anger
http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger
and Pam's new writing is now here:
http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing
Parenting Peacefully
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Building an Unschooling Nest
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Those all have links to other pages, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. -=-
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html
Mothering During a Meltdown
http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn
Understanding Anger
http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger
and Pam's new writing is now here:
http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing
Parenting Peacefully
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Building an Unschooling Nest
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Those all have links to other pages, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Estella Schmelter
Wow this is great info...I'll be busy reading :) I'm so glad I found this group!!!!
Estella
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Pam Sorooshian wrote:
-=-There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. -=-
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html
Mothering During a Meltdown
http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn
Understanding Anger
http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger
and Pam's new writing is now here:
http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing
Parenting Peacefully
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Building an Unschooling Nest
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Those all have links to other pages, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Work At Home United!!
Estella Schmelter
Senior Director
Mom to Junior,Hunter & Baby Jalynn
Phone: 517-748-9344
Your Life, Your Dreams,
Your Business....Find Out Today!!
www.WorkAtHomeUnitedSuccess.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Estella
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Pam Sorooshian wrote:
-=-There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. -=-
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html
Mothering During a Meltdown
http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn
Understanding Anger
http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger
and Pam's new writing is now here:
http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing
Parenting Peacefully
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Building an Unschooling Nest
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Those all have links to other pages, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Work At Home United!!
Estella Schmelter
Senior Director
Mom to Junior,Hunter & Baby Jalynn
Phone: 517-748-9344
Your Life, Your Dreams,
Your Business....Find Out Today!!
www.WorkAtHomeUnitedSuccess.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kristinmoke
The conversation went on like this
a couple of times when he screamed out "Stop talking to me! I HATE
YOU!!". So, I crouched down, said, "It is okay for you to be angry at
me, or frustrated, or WHATEVER, but it is NOT okay for you to yell at
me"
----
This reminded me of something I just read in Naomi Aldort's
book "Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves." She discusses the
importance of parents being strong and confident enough to "absorb"
whatever big feelings- rage, anger, etc- a child is needing to express.
Up to this point, it seemed you were validating him, then that changed
when he tried to express himself in a way you felt attacked and judged
it to be inappropriate. If you "allow" that expression in the moment,
he will feel you are a safe place to explore those big, difficult
feelings. You can always discuss later how you/other people feel when
they're yelled at, though some would go so far as to say even that is
unnecessary if we trust our children to know what appropriate social
behavior is and they will exhibit it when they're able.
Of course preventing meltdowns in the first place is the ideal and the
other posts have been so wonderfully thorough on ways to do that.
Kristin
a couple of times when he screamed out "Stop talking to me! I HATE
YOU!!". So, I crouched down, said, "It is okay for you to be angry at
me, or frustrated, or WHATEVER, but it is NOT okay for you to yell at
me"
----
This reminded me of something I just read in Naomi Aldort's
book "Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves." She discusses the
importance of parents being strong and confident enough to "absorb"
whatever big feelings- rage, anger, etc- a child is needing to express.
Up to this point, it seemed you were validating him, then that changed
when he tried to express himself in a way you felt attacked and judged
it to be inappropriate. If you "allow" that expression in the moment,
he will feel you are a safe place to explore those big, difficult
feelings. You can always discuss later how you/other people feel when
they're yelled at, though some would go so far as to say even that is
unnecessary if we trust our children to know what appropriate social
behavior is and they will exhibit it when they're able.
Of course preventing meltdowns in the first place is the ideal and the
other posts have been so wonderfully thorough on ways to do that.
Kristin
Sandra Dodd
-=-Up to this point, it seemed you were validating him, then that
changed
when he tried to express himself in a way you felt attacked and judged
it to be inappropriate. -=-
It could be the "validation" is what pissed him off.
-=-We try to exist in a nuturing home environment, one that validates
all feelings, not just the good.-=-
There were times and families (some still) in which children's
feelings were universally disregarded or punished. Then child
psychologists and practical philosophers of various sorts saw that
and saw that it was bad. And so parents started being advised to
accept that sometimes kids are cranky, and for good reasons, and not
to punish them for expressing their honest feelings.
Then some other advisors and parents took that to a ridiculous
extreme, and instead of seeing it as a giant step away from the
ignorance of the past, they turned it into the irritating ignorance
of the future.
Feelings can be accepted, but they're not all equally "valid." And
it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feel
long after the toddler years.
It's fine to tell a two year old "You wish they had let you play,"
but saying "You wish they had let you go with them" to a fifteen year
old isn't at ALL the same.
-=-They were browsing around, picking
up a few things, here and there, when all of a sudden the 5 year old
yells at me, "Ryan (8 yo) CAN NOT TOUCH ANY of my things. These are
mine!" I responded, "Oh, you don't want Ryan to touch your new
things, hmm, I see" -=-
He just TOLD you that, why repeat it? I'm guessing that's part of
what made him mad.
But some thought or memory in him triggered the first statement. I'm
guessing Ryan has forbidden him to touch some of his things. I'm
guessing the parents backed Ryan up. I'm guessing the younger boy
felt powerless and frustrated and was hoping for the same parental
backup and protection of his own things.
-=-He replied (this is verbatim), "Yah, I'm okay; it is just so hard
for me to feel excited."-=-
Maybe the thought of getting new toys was reminding him of too many
prior clashes over toys? Would it help any if there were more toys
that were not either of theirs specifically?
When my kids were little I already had some toys, and sometimes we'd
buy something and instead of it being one of theirs, or instead of me
saying "It belongs to both of you," I would say "This one's mine."
Then I got to say who played with it (in their minds and in reality
both) while they were learning to share and learning what "mine"
meant. "Mine" doesn't need to mean "nobody else ever touches it."
But when the other people are younger, that can be scary, the thought
that they might not take care of the thing. And when the other
people are older and maybe better at arguments and physically
stronger, that's scary too. Those fears produce stress.
-=-I understand that being sad/angry/frustrated is okay,-=-
This might be part of the problem. While being sad, angry or
frustrated should not be punishable offenses, that doesn't make them
"okay" in every sense of the word.
If you can help him avoid those things by making his life smoother
and safer and happier, you should! All parents should, but for
unschooling parents it's part of the basic workings of unschooling.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs (something that shows that learning
doesn't take place under threat, and that hungry and scared people
aren't in a state to learn much) says that for a person to be in a
receptive state, in a happy state, there are basic needs that need to
be taken care of first.
-=-I understand that being
sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
anything with helping him to feel supported?-=-
Instead of waiting until he's unhappy to wish he was being happy,
make the happiness the goal and the priority. Don't support the
frustration, try to avoid it.
-=-Am I overlooking
anything with helping him to feel supported?-=-
From the story you told, it seems you might be using phrases that
sound like they came from a book instead of using your own, honest
voice. I've never liked it when people have done that to me. When
people are changing their lives and learning new ways to be,
sometimes they take the advice of a book very literally and use the
exact phrase that was suggested. Sometimes they keep on doing that
for months or years, at which point they might be adding to the
stress instead of alleviating it.
Saying "I understand you're angry" is better than saying "Stop
whining or I'll spank you."
So when one gets to that point of understanding, they should try to
make even better choices about what to say in future instances.
Good! Wikipedia has a page now on Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
changed
when he tried to express himself in a way you felt attacked and judged
it to be inappropriate. -=-
It could be the "validation" is what pissed him off.
-=-We try to exist in a nuturing home environment, one that validates
all feelings, not just the good.-=-
There were times and families (some still) in which children's
feelings were universally disregarded or punished. Then child
psychologists and practical philosophers of various sorts saw that
and saw that it was bad. And so parents started being advised to
accept that sometimes kids are cranky, and for good reasons, and not
to punish them for expressing their honest feelings.
Then some other advisors and parents took that to a ridiculous
extreme, and instead of seeing it as a giant step away from the
ignorance of the past, they turned it into the irritating ignorance
of the future.
Feelings can be accepted, but they're not all equally "valid." And
it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feel
long after the toddler years.
It's fine to tell a two year old "You wish they had let you play,"
but saying "You wish they had let you go with them" to a fifteen year
old isn't at ALL the same.
-=-They were browsing around, picking
up a few things, here and there, when all of a sudden the 5 year old
yells at me, "Ryan (8 yo) CAN NOT TOUCH ANY of my things. These are
mine!" I responded, "Oh, you don't want Ryan to touch your new
things, hmm, I see" -=-
He just TOLD you that, why repeat it? I'm guessing that's part of
what made him mad.
But some thought or memory in him triggered the first statement. I'm
guessing Ryan has forbidden him to touch some of his things. I'm
guessing the parents backed Ryan up. I'm guessing the younger boy
felt powerless and frustrated and was hoping for the same parental
backup and protection of his own things.
-=-He replied (this is verbatim), "Yah, I'm okay; it is just so hard
for me to feel excited."-=-
Maybe the thought of getting new toys was reminding him of too many
prior clashes over toys? Would it help any if there were more toys
that were not either of theirs specifically?
When my kids were little I already had some toys, and sometimes we'd
buy something and instead of it being one of theirs, or instead of me
saying "It belongs to both of you," I would say "This one's mine."
Then I got to say who played with it (in their minds and in reality
both) while they were learning to share and learning what "mine"
meant. "Mine" doesn't need to mean "nobody else ever touches it."
But when the other people are younger, that can be scary, the thought
that they might not take care of the thing. And when the other
people are older and maybe better at arguments and physically
stronger, that's scary too. Those fears produce stress.
-=-I understand that being sad/angry/frustrated is okay,-=-
This might be part of the problem. While being sad, angry or
frustrated should not be punishable offenses, that doesn't make them
"okay" in every sense of the word.
If you can help him avoid those things by making his life smoother
and safer and happier, you should! All parents should, but for
unschooling parents it's part of the basic workings of unschooling.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs (something that shows that learning
doesn't take place under threat, and that hungry and scared people
aren't in a state to learn much) says that for a person to be in a
receptive state, in a happy state, there are basic needs that need to
be taken care of first.
-=-I understand that being
sad/angry/frustrated is okay, but is it okay
for it to override excitement and happiness? Am I overlooking
anything with helping him to feel supported?-=-
Instead of waiting until he's unhappy to wish he was being happy,
make the happiness the goal and the priority. Don't support the
frustration, try to avoid it.
-=-Am I overlooking
anything with helping him to feel supported?-=-
From the story you told, it seems you might be using phrases that
sound like they came from a book instead of using your own, honest
voice. I've never liked it when people have done that to me. When
people are changing their lives and learning new ways to be,
sometimes they take the advice of a book very literally and use the
exact phrase that was suggested. Sometimes they keep on doing that
for months or years, at which point they might be adding to the
stress instead of alleviating it.
Saying "I understand you're angry" is better than saying "Stop
whining or I'll spank you."
So when one gets to that point of understanding, they should try to
make even better choices about what to say in future instances.
Good! Wikipedia has a page now on Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Feelings can be accepted, but they're not all equally "valid." And
it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feel
long after the toddler years.-=-
I want to rephrase that.
"Valid," like "powerful," has lots of facets.
Sometimes when Holly is being pouty, I remind her that really her day
has been going pretty well (if it has and it usually is), and that it
seems a shame for her to focus on a negative part. She usually sees
what I'm getting at pretty quickly and she knows how to turn her
moods and cheer herself up pretty well. And she wants to be happy.
And I know some ways to remind her of that without making her
angry. But this has developed gradually over the years.
I use different words every time.
I've been around moms who use stock phrases, either their own or
someone else's. They use quotes (some families use Bible verses,
others might use quotes from songs or dichos (northern New Mexico,
families I grew up with) which are like proverbs or maxims (literally
in English, "sayings").
I'm not saying NEVER say "A stitch in time saves nine" or whatever,
but don't say it more than maybe twice in another person's life. <g>
When a mom uses other people's words instead of her own, she's
creating distance between herself and her child. It can be seen as a
kind of ganging up, whether it's quoting religious texts (implying
the mom and Jesus, Mohammed, Vishnu or the Reverent Moon or somebody
both/all want the child to stop doing whatever it is), or whether the
mom is ganging up with Benjamin Franklin or Eda LeShan or Adele Farber.
Let those people's advice infuse you, and then try as soon as you can
to speak with your own voice, as you would speak to a friend or
someone you just met. It's a form of baby-talking a child, in some
cases, for the parents to use quotes and other people's phrases.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If it bothers you
to have people use stock phrases, don't do it to other people. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feel
long after the toddler years.-=-
I want to rephrase that.
"Valid," like "powerful," has lots of facets.
Sometimes when Holly is being pouty, I remind her that really her day
has been going pretty well (if it has and it usually is), and that it
seems a shame for her to focus on a negative part. She usually sees
what I'm getting at pretty quickly and she knows how to turn her
moods and cheer herself up pretty well. And she wants to be happy.
And I know some ways to remind her of that without making her
angry. But this has developed gradually over the years.
I use different words every time.
I've been around moms who use stock phrases, either their own or
someone else's. They use quotes (some families use Bible verses,
others might use quotes from songs or dichos (northern New Mexico,
families I grew up with) which are like proverbs or maxims (literally
in English, "sayings").
I'm not saying NEVER say "A stitch in time saves nine" or whatever,
but don't say it more than maybe twice in another person's life. <g>
When a mom uses other people's words instead of her own, she's
creating distance between herself and her child. It can be seen as a
kind of ganging up, whether it's quoting religious texts (implying
the mom and Jesus, Mohammed, Vishnu or the Reverent Moon or somebody
both/all want the child to stop doing whatever it is), or whether the
mom is ganging up with Benjamin Franklin or Eda LeShan or Adele Farber.
Let those people's advice infuse you, and then try as soon as you can
to speak with your own voice, as you would speak to a friend or
someone you just met. It's a form of baby-talking a child, in some
cases, for the parents to use quotes and other people's phrases.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If it bothers you
to have people use stock phrases, don't do it to other people. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Clarifying my clarification, below
====================================
-=-Feelings can be accepted, but they're not all equally "valid." And
it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feel
long after the toddler years.-=-
I want to rephrase that.
"Valid," like "powerful," has lots of facets.
================================================
All those quotes are just me. I seem to have hit upon a hive of
little problems.
By "not all equally 'valid'" I mean not all equally useful,
appropriate, or healthy.
(I hope that's all I mean.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
====================================
-=-Feelings can be accepted, but they're not all equally "valid." And
it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feel
long after the toddler years.-=-
I want to rephrase that.
"Valid," like "powerful," has lots of facets.
================================================
All those quotes are just me. I seem to have hit upon a hive of
little problems.
By "not all equally 'valid'" I mean not all equally useful,
appropriate, or healthy.
(I hope that's all I mean.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda Horein
-=-=-=-=-
Pam Said:
She might be, like me, really sensitive to the sound in big stores
and shopping malls - that horrible "echo" kind of sound creates a lot
of stress in me - over a period of half an hour the stress builds up
and it is like I start not being able to think, all I can do is sort
of protect my brain from that background sound. I get cranky, short-
tempered, really really tired. I've mentioned this to people who
claim they don't even know what "sound" I'm talking about - so
obviously it doesn't affect everyone the same way.
-=-=-=-=-
Thank you Pam for all your advice. That is what I needed. And yes,
she is VERY sensitive to sound. A child crying, toilets flushing, the
list goes on. It was a mistake to put her in the situation. I see
that now and will be more mindful next time. Thank you again.
-=-=-=-=-
Sandra said:
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
-=-=-=-=-
Thank you for the links. Time to fire the printer up and after
reading them put them in a book of pages and pages I have from your
site. Thank you so much.
-=-=-=-=-
Sandra said:
Let those people's advice infuse you, and then try as soon as you can
to speak with your own voice, as you would speak to a friend or
someone you just met. It's a form of baby-talking a child, in some
cases, for the parents to use quotes and other people's phrases.
-=-=-=-=-
I love this. Thank you. You are amazing.
--
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/
Pam Said:
She might be, like me, really sensitive to the sound in big stores
and shopping malls - that horrible "echo" kind of sound creates a lot
of stress in me - over a period of half an hour the stress builds up
and it is like I start not being able to think, all I can do is sort
of protect my brain from that background sound. I get cranky, short-
tempered, really really tired. I've mentioned this to people who
claim they don't even know what "sound" I'm talking about - so
obviously it doesn't affect everyone the same way.
-=-=-=-=-
Thank you Pam for all your advice. That is what I needed. And yes,
she is VERY sensitive to sound. A child crying, toilets flushing, the
list goes on. It was a mistake to put her in the situation. I see
that now and will be more mindful next time. Thank you again.
-=-=-=-=-
Sandra said:
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
-=-=-=-=-
Thank you for the links. Time to fire the printer up and after
reading them put them in a book of pages and pages I have from your
site. Thank you so much.
-=-=-=-=-
Sandra said:
Let those people's advice infuse you, and then try as soon as you can
to speak with your own voice, as you would speak to a friend or
someone you just met. It's a form of baby-talking a child, in some
cases, for the parents to use quotes and other people's phrases.
-=-=-=-=-
I love this. Thank you. You are amazing.
--
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/
chillmidcoastcom
I had to laugh when I read these responses - a kind of "aha! Boy did
I land in the right place" kind of laugh. This is exactly it, and
this is what I'm looking for. sigh.
I was raised by fundamentalists, where controlling was the norm, and
anything but a clone of the parent was considered a failure and a
disgrace (another sigh). Strong feelings? NOT okay. And I can relate
on such a deep level to my 5yo. My partner was raised similarly = no
role models, so I have done a TON of reading (which, apparently, is
obvious :-) I'm trying to create the atmosphere which I longed for as
a child, and one that will support my children.
I'm waiting for "Raising our Children..." to come in the mail, and a
couple of others. It is hard to rely solely on intuition at this
stage in my growth, unfortunately. There is nagging self-doubt, and I
guess I didn't realize how "artificial" my caring sounds. That's why
I so appreciate your responses. It really is like an 'aha' moment for
me; sometimes the obvious just needs to be pointed out.
Thanks, again,
Cynthia
I land in the right place" kind of laugh. This is exactly it, and
this is what I'm looking for. sigh.
I was raised by fundamentalists, where controlling was the norm, and
anything but a clone of the parent was considered a failure and a
disgrace (another sigh). Strong feelings? NOT okay. And I can relate
on such a deep level to my 5yo. My partner was raised similarly = no
role models, so I have done a TON of reading (which, apparently, is
obvious :-) I'm trying to create the atmosphere which I longed for as
a child, and one that will support my children.
I'm waiting for "Raising our Children..." to come in the mail, and a
couple of others. It is hard to rely solely on intuition at this
stage in my growth, unfortunately. There is nagging self-doubt, and I
guess I didn't realize how "artificial" my caring sounds. That's why
I so appreciate your responses. It really is like an 'aha' moment for
me; sometimes the obvious just needs to be pointed out.
Thanks, again,
Cynthia
>(literally
> I've been around moms who use stock phrases, either their own or
> someone else's. They use quotes (some families use Bible verses,
> others might use quotes from songs or dichos (northern New Mexico,
> families I grew up with) which are like proverbs or maxims
> in English, "sayings").whatever,
>
> I'm not saying NEVER say "A stitch in time saves nine" or
> but don't say it more than maybe twice in another person's life. <g>a
>
> When a mom uses other people's words instead of her own, she's
> creating distance between herself and her child. It can be seen as
> kind of ganging up, whether it's quoting religious texts (implyingsomebody
> the mom and Jesus, Mohammed, Vishnu or the Reverent Moon or
> both/all want the child to stop doing whatever it is), or whetherthe
> mom is ganging up with Benjamin Franklin or Eda LeShan or AdeleFarber.
>can
> Let those people's advice infuse you, and then try as soon as you
> to speak with your own voice, as you would speak to a friend orsome
> someone you just met. It's a form of baby-talking a child, in
> cases, for the parents to use quotes and other people's phrases.you
>
> Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If it bothers
> to have people use stock phrases, don't do it to other people. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
wisdomalways5
my daughter does this also and I have not addressed this with her
mostly because I see it as an HONEST expression of what she is
feeling in the moment. In that moment she DOES hate me and it is ok
to hate someone in the moment.
I think it fosters REAL emotional communication instead of saying
things like "it not ok to say you hate someone or do not yell at me"
Since she was little was played the "I hate you" game which went
like this-- not in anger but in the car I would say I love you and
she would say I hate you and I would say that ok I hate you too- she
would then say ok I love you and I would say ok I love you too
my mom and others were astonished that we would play this dialouge
because it so goes against conventional parenting but we shurgged
our shoulders and say it is ok
Sometimes she says she is mad and does not want to interact and
sometimes I say "I am mad right now"- she understands it because she
is allowed to be "mad right now".
Kids are very honest in their emotions and the rest of us
conventionally raised parents were taught that honest expression is
wrong and somehow bad.
Once we were outside playing and cassie who was 4 told a friend she
hated tham and the friend came to tell me that she said that- I told
the friend that I hate you is ok to say in our house and it probably
means that she does not want to play right now. The friend looked at
me in astonishment because she expected I would tell my daughter to
not say I hate you and play nice.
Get to a place where HONEST emotion is expected and welcomed. You
know that just because you feel something does not make it bad it
makes it real and it too passes
JulieH
--- In [email protected], "kristinmoke" <kmoke@...>
wrote:
mostly because I see it as an HONEST expression of what she is
feeling in the moment. In that moment she DOES hate me and it is ok
to hate someone in the moment.
I think it fosters REAL emotional communication instead of saying
things like "it not ok to say you hate someone or do not yell at me"
Since she was little was played the "I hate you" game which went
like this-- not in anger but in the car I would say I love you and
she would say I hate you and I would say that ok I hate you too- she
would then say ok I love you and I would say ok I love you too
my mom and others were astonished that we would play this dialouge
because it so goes against conventional parenting but we shurgged
our shoulders and say it is ok
Sometimes she says she is mad and does not want to interact and
sometimes I say "I am mad right now"- she understands it because she
is allowed to be "mad right now".
Kids are very honest in their emotions and the rest of us
conventionally raised parents were taught that honest expression is
wrong and somehow bad.
Once we were outside playing and cassie who was 4 told a friend she
hated tham and the friend came to tell me that she said that- I told
the friend that I hate you is ok to say in our house and it probably
means that she does not want to play right now. The friend looked at
me in astonishment because she expected I would tell my daughter to
not say I hate you and play nice.
Get to a place where HONEST emotion is expected and welcomed. You
know that just because you feel something does not make it bad it
makes it real and it too passes
JulieH
--- In [email protected], "kristinmoke" <kmoke@...>
wrote:
>at
> The conversation went on like this
> a couple of times when he screamed out "Stop talking to me! I HATE
> YOU!!". So, I crouched down, said, "It is okay for you to be angry
> me, or frustrated, or WHATEVER, but it is NOT okay for you to yellat
> me"to "absorb"
> ----
>
> This reminded me of something I just read in Naomi Aldort's
> book "Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves." She discusses the
> importance of parents being strong and confident enough
> whatever big feelings- rage, anger, etc- a child is needing toexpress.
> Up to this point, it seemed you were validating him, then thatchanged
> when he tried to express himself in a way you felt attacked andjudged
> it to be inappropriate. If you "allow" that expression in themoment,
> he will feel you are a safe place to explore those big, difficultwhen
> feelings. You can always discuss later how you/other people feel
> they're yelled at, though some would go so far as to say even thatis
> unnecessary if we trust our children to know what appropriatesocial
> behavior is and they will exhibit it when they're able.the
>
> Of course preventing meltdowns in the first place is the ideal and
> other posts have been so wonderfully thorough on ways to do that.
>
> Kristin
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-Kids are very honest in their emotions and the rest of us
conventionally raised parents were taught that honest expression is
wrong and somehow bad.-=-
I doubt she understood, when she was younger, what "I hate you"
means. She was just playing opposites, I'm guessing.
We've discouraged "hate" or hatred in any form. Even if a kid says
"I hate spinach," we'll say "You might like it when you're older."
If they say "I hate that music," we might say "But Marty really likes
it," or "did you even hate it in [whichever movie]?"
I think when joy and optimism are the goals (which they aren't in all
families), that it's good to help kids see that a momentary
discomfort isn't "hatred." An aversion doesn't need to be "hate."
Hatred hurts the person doing the hating. If someone hates many
things, it makes the person hateful. Literally full of hate.
-=-Sometimes she says she is mad and does not want to interact and
sometimes I say "I am mad right now"- she understands it because she
is allowed to be "mad right now". -=-
We have that, easily. I can say "That hurt my feelings and I don't
want to talk about it right now," but we'll talk about it at some point.
-=-Kids are very honest in their emotions and the rest of us
conventionally raised parents were taught that honest expression is
wrong and somehow bad.-=-
Whether any one thing is "wrong" or not doesn't mean there aren't
some things worse than other things. An honest expression of "I hope
we get to see you next week" is not simply equal but different from
"I hope I never see you again," or "I hope you die."
There are some things that should not be expressed, even if they're
thought. There are some expressions that might could use clarification.
If by "I hate you" your daughter means "I don't want to play with you
right now," I think for the sake of clarity, courtesy and her own
soul you should coach her to say what she means.
-=-Get to a place where HONEST emotion is expected and welcomed. You
know that just because you feel something does not make it bad it
makes it real and it too passes-=-
I don't think that's what you meant to say.
I hope it's not what you meant to say.
Saying "I hate you" doesn't make it real, but it makes it closer to
real than is good for a person.
I want my kids to learn ways to make friends and keep friends, and so
I encourage them to be courteous and thoughtful in speech and action.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
conventionally raised parents were taught that honest expression is
wrong and somehow bad.-=-
I doubt she understood, when she was younger, what "I hate you"
means. She was just playing opposites, I'm guessing.
We've discouraged "hate" or hatred in any form. Even if a kid says
"I hate spinach," we'll say "You might like it when you're older."
If they say "I hate that music," we might say "But Marty really likes
it," or "did you even hate it in [whichever movie]?"
I think when joy and optimism are the goals (which they aren't in all
families), that it's good to help kids see that a momentary
discomfort isn't "hatred." An aversion doesn't need to be "hate."
Hatred hurts the person doing the hating. If someone hates many
things, it makes the person hateful. Literally full of hate.
-=-Sometimes she says she is mad and does not want to interact and
sometimes I say "I am mad right now"- she understands it because she
is allowed to be "mad right now". -=-
We have that, easily. I can say "That hurt my feelings and I don't
want to talk about it right now," but we'll talk about it at some point.
-=-Kids are very honest in their emotions and the rest of us
conventionally raised parents were taught that honest expression is
wrong and somehow bad.-=-
Whether any one thing is "wrong" or not doesn't mean there aren't
some things worse than other things. An honest expression of "I hope
we get to see you next week" is not simply equal but different from
"I hope I never see you again," or "I hope you die."
There are some things that should not be expressed, even if they're
thought. There are some expressions that might could use clarification.
If by "I hate you" your daughter means "I don't want to play with you
right now," I think for the sake of clarity, courtesy and her own
soul you should coach her to say what she means.
-=-Get to a place where HONEST emotion is expected and welcomed. You
know that just because you feel something does not make it bad it
makes it real and it too passes-=-
I don't think that's what you meant to say.
I hope it's not what you meant to say.
Saying "I hate you" doesn't make it real, but it makes it closer to
real than is good for a person.
I want my kids to learn ways to make friends and keep friends, and so
I encourage them to be courteous and thoughtful in speech and action.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
NOT do this with her-- what what it is worth my husband does not like
paraphasing either.
She does not like talking about things later either she will say 'it is
already in my head"
>This is true with my daughter she HATES being paraphrased and I had to
> -=-Up to this point, it seemed you were validating him, then that
> changed
> when he tried to express himself in a way you felt attacked and judged
> it to be inappropriate. -=-
>
> It could be the "validation" is what pissed him off.
>
NOT do this with her-- what what it is worth my husband does not like
paraphasing either.
She does not like talking about things later either she will say 'it is
already in my head"
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
automatically appropriate for the situation.
JulieH
wrote:
>And
> Clarifying my clarification, below
>
> ====================================
>
> -=-Feelings can be accepted, but they're not all equally "valid."
> it can be irritating to have someone else telling you how you feelI get it "I think"- just because you have a feeling does not make it
> long after the toddler years.-=-
>
> I want to rephrase that.
>
> "Valid," like "powerful," has lots of facets.
>
> ================================================
>
> All those quotes are just me. I seem to have hit upon a hive of
> little problems.
>
> By "not all equally 'valid'" I mean not all equally useful,
> appropriate, or healthy.
>
>
>
> (I hope that's all I mean.)
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
automatically appropriate for the situation.
JulieH
Silvia Barrett
This is really timely for me. I�m feeling like such a failure right now with
my 8 yo son. We were at L&L this year, and decided then that DH and I wanted
to truly become radical unschoolers, but of course, we�re fighting our own
upbringings and the last 18 yrs of parenting (he has an 18 yo from a
previous marriage). I don�t feel that I�m failing my daughter (11) so
much�I�ve recognized that what she displays as anger (or what I perceive to
be anger) is actually just, as she put it, feeling annoyed, not angry.
There�s a big difference to her. And I�m really sensitive to others� moods,
so I get defensive, feeling it�s all my fault, whatever it is. And that the
anger or annoyance or frustration is directed at and caused by me. But I�m
reminding myself that�s not the case usually, and so I try to get a clearer
understanding from her of what is going on before jumping to conclusions.
However, with my son, I can�t have the same level of conversation. He
doesn�t want to talk about any of it. He sometimes treats me
disrespectfully/rudely at home and out in public, and that is such a trigger
for me. I usually try to continue talking calmly to him and ignore the
rudeness and hear the message. But that doesn�t always work, especially if
I�m feeling tired or particularly sensitive. Of course, it�s because I feel
like I haven�t treated him well in the past, and so this is his normal
reaction, even if I am trying to do better. I guess I was hoping that giving
him his freedom would automatically take care of all the past injustices
he�s felt. And I know that�s not realistic. But I still feel awful and just
don�t know how to understand him and his needs better.
The other day he was really rude to me and I reacted badly. Then at home, I
told DH what had happened, and how I feel it�s my fault for not doing
�something� better, and DH had a talk with him, which wasn�t the kind of
talk I wanted him to have, because he basically told Thomas that it really
upset him to see me upset and that if he found that Thomas was treating me
rudely again, he�d be in lots of trouble. Well, I don�t want him treating me
well because he�s afraid of getting in trouble!
This is just not coming naturally to either of us and so I start beating
myself up over it. And the fact that I can�t explain well to DH how we�d be
better parents if we did things differently. It�s just been since September,
but I want things to be joyful and come naturally right now. I know I have
choices I can make each time, but I feel pulled into my past reactions. I
feel like I�m letting my son down each time I do this, and I just don�t know
what it is that I can do to help him, what it is he needs.
I guess I�m looking for help, and don�t know what my next step is. I keep
thinking, gosh, they have all this freedom now, they should see that helping
with dishes or some chore is a nice thing to do together, and then since I
don�t want to *tell* them to help I end up trying to guilt them into
helping. I recognize that. It doesn�t happen all the time, but it happens.
One recent example of how I messed up�I asked Thomas if he would bring in
one of his drink glasses from the computer desk to the kitchen, since I was
doing dishes, and he just started yelling at me about how *I* never do
anything and I make him do everything, which is the complete opposite almost
of how things really are. I recognize that either this is how he truly sees
it, or he�s just frustrated about something and this is the first thing that
comes to mind to say. But I ended up yelling at him that I�ve been doing all
the cleaning and just asked if he�d bring in one glass. On the other hand,
the same week he helped put away the silverware while I was doing the rest
of the dishes, and all I did was ask if he�d help me.
I really don�t want to get beat up over this on the list, but I need help
figuring this out.
Silvia
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: anger and sadness in 5 yo
Pam Sorooshian wrote:
-=-There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. -=-
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
HYPERLINK
"http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html"http://www.sandradodd.com/pea
ce/becoming.html
Mothering During a Meltdown
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn"http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn
Understanding Anger
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger"http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger
and Pam's new writing is now here:
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing"http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing
Parenting Peacefully
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully"http://sandradodd.com/parentingpe
acefully
Building an Unschooling Nest
HYPERLINK "http://sandradodd.com/nest"http://sandradodd.com/nest
Those all have links to other pages, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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9:29 AM
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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9:26 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my 8 yo son. We were at L&L this year, and decided then that DH and I wanted
to truly become radical unschoolers, but of course, we�re fighting our own
upbringings and the last 18 yrs of parenting (he has an 18 yo from a
previous marriage). I don�t feel that I�m failing my daughter (11) so
much�I�ve recognized that what she displays as anger (or what I perceive to
be anger) is actually just, as she put it, feeling annoyed, not angry.
There�s a big difference to her. And I�m really sensitive to others� moods,
so I get defensive, feeling it�s all my fault, whatever it is. And that the
anger or annoyance or frustration is directed at and caused by me. But I�m
reminding myself that�s not the case usually, and so I try to get a clearer
understanding from her of what is going on before jumping to conclusions.
However, with my son, I can�t have the same level of conversation. He
doesn�t want to talk about any of it. He sometimes treats me
disrespectfully/rudely at home and out in public, and that is such a trigger
for me. I usually try to continue talking calmly to him and ignore the
rudeness and hear the message. But that doesn�t always work, especially if
I�m feeling tired or particularly sensitive. Of course, it�s because I feel
like I haven�t treated him well in the past, and so this is his normal
reaction, even if I am trying to do better. I guess I was hoping that giving
him his freedom would automatically take care of all the past injustices
he�s felt. And I know that�s not realistic. But I still feel awful and just
don�t know how to understand him and his needs better.
The other day he was really rude to me and I reacted badly. Then at home, I
told DH what had happened, and how I feel it�s my fault for not doing
�something� better, and DH had a talk with him, which wasn�t the kind of
talk I wanted him to have, because he basically told Thomas that it really
upset him to see me upset and that if he found that Thomas was treating me
rudely again, he�d be in lots of trouble. Well, I don�t want him treating me
well because he�s afraid of getting in trouble!
This is just not coming naturally to either of us and so I start beating
myself up over it. And the fact that I can�t explain well to DH how we�d be
better parents if we did things differently. It�s just been since September,
but I want things to be joyful and come naturally right now. I know I have
choices I can make each time, but I feel pulled into my past reactions. I
feel like I�m letting my son down each time I do this, and I just don�t know
what it is that I can do to help him, what it is he needs.
I guess I�m looking for help, and don�t know what my next step is. I keep
thinking, gosh, they have all this freedom now, they should see that helping
with dishes or some chore is a nice thing to do together, and then since I
don�t want to *tell* them to help I end up trying to guilt them into
helping. I recognize that. It doesn�t happen all the time, but it happens.
One recent example of how I messed up�I asked Thomas if he would bring in
one of his drink glasses from the computer desk to the kitchen, since I was
doing dishes, and he just started yelling at me about how *I* never do
anything and I make him do everything, which is the complete opposite almost
of how things really are. I recognize that either this is how he truly sees
it, or he�s just frustrated about something and this is the first thing that
comes to mind to say. But I ended up yelling at him that I�ve been doing all
the cleaning and just asked if he�d bring in one glass. On the other hand,
the same week he helped put away the silverware while I was doing the rest
of the dishes, and all I did was ask if he�d help me.
I really don�t want to get beat up over this on the list, but I need help
figuring this out.
Silvia
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: anger and sadness in 5 yo
Pam Sorooshian wrote:
-=-There is no magic button you can push - no magic words you can say.
If you've already gotten yourselves into a situation, then you can be
super sympathetic and resolve the situation as quickly as possible. -=-
Pam's whole post was good, and when I went to look for a place to put
it, I found other things that might be helpful.
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
HYPERLINK
"http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html"http://www.sandradodd.com/pea
ce/becoming.html
Mothering During a Meltdown
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn"http://sandradodd.com/peace/robyn
Understanding Anger
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger"http://sandradodd.com/peace/anger
and Pam's new writing is now here:
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing"http://sandradodd.com/pam/soothing
Parenting Peacefully
HYPERLINK
"http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully"http://sandradodd.com/parentingpe
acefully
Building an Unschooling Nest
HYPERLINK "http://sandradodd.com/nest"http://sandradodd.com/nest
Those all have links to other pages, too.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.25/1118 - Release Date: 11/8/2007
9:29 AM
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1120 - Release Date: 11/9/2007
9:26 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I really don�t want to get beat up over this on the list, but I
need help
figuring this out.-=-
Your kid didn't want to get beat up about bringing in a glass or
responding badly, but he needs help figuring things out.
If you think of direct advice as being "beat up" it seems you're
declaring yourself too sensitive to accept input. We could all coo
and soothe you (if any of us felt like spending volunteer time to
keep you comfortable where you are instead of helping you get
unschooling). That's not what you need.
-=-He sometimes treats me
disrespectfully/rudely at home and out in public, and that is such a
trigger
for me. I usually try to continue talking calmly to him and ignore the
rudeness and hear the message.-=-
If what you're doing isn't working, don't do it. If you continue
talking calmly when he's gotten to the point that he's emotional, how
does that help? Maybe not talking at all would be better. Just
calmly disengage, maybe. When you feel like talking again, when
you're not in public, when you've calmed down, ask him if he can
rephrase more calmly. (That's one of many ideas; not "the right
answer.")
-=- guess I was hoping that giving him his freedom would
automatically take care of all the past injustices he�s felt.-=-
Have you apologized to him?
Have you explained (briefly, occasionally) why you've changed?
A little explanation is better than too much.
A little apology is better than too much.
-=- I still feel awful and just don�t know how to understand him and
his needs better. -=-
Gradually, one clue at a time, you can figure out how you can make
his life more comfortable.
-=-DH had a talk with him, which wasn�t the kind of
talk I wanted him to have, because he basically told Thomas that it
really
upset him to see me upset and that if he found that Thomas was
treating me
rudely again, he�d be in lots of trouble. Well, I don�t want him
treating me
well because he�s afraid of getting in trouble!
-=-
You might ask your husband if he was treating your son the way he
wants your son to treat him and you. Kids learn better by example
than by lecture. It will take a while for him to trust that you've
changed, if you can and do change. You're not there yet, and it will
take a while. Then it will take another while for him to relax and
trust the new situation.
-=- It�s just been since September,
but I want things to be joyful and come naturally right now.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/peace/noisy
There's something about peace in the home. One quote:
Choices
Unless you considered two or three courses of actions, you didn't
really make a choice at all. Consciously think of two choices before
you act�then make the better choice. Your range of choices will get
better as you do this. While you're helping your child learn to
choose, you can also learn to choose.
If you would ordinarily yell, choose between yelling and speaking
softly. If speaking softly works better, but you said too much, next
time choose between saying a little bit softly or saying a lot
softly. Yelling is off the list, until the next time you forget to
make a choice. Or maybe you'll choose yelling over screaming and
breaking something. But think of two things each time and choose the
one that's "getting warmer" in terms of the kind of mom you want to be.
-=- It�s just been since September, but I want things to be joyful
and come naturally right now.-=-
First the parents change and become comfortable with the new ways,
and then the kids can start to change.
I'm going to take the stuff about chores to another thread.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
need help
figuring this out.-=-
Your kid didn't want to get beat up about bringing in a glass or
responding badly, but he needs help figuring things out.
If you think of direct advice as being "beat up" it seems you're
declaring yourself too sensitive to accept input. We could all coo
and soothe you (if any of us felt like spending volunteer time to
keep you comfortable where you are instead of helping you get
unschooling). That's not what you need.
-=-He sometimes treats me
disrespectfully/rudely at home and out in public, and that is such a
trigger
for me. I usually try to continue talking calmly to him and ignore the
rudeness and hear the message.-=-
If what you're doing isn't working, don't do it. If you continue
talking calmly when he's gotten to the point that he's emotional, how
does that help? Maybe not talking at all would be better. Just
calmly disengage, maybe. When you feel like talking again, when
you're not in public, when you've calmed down, ask him if he can
rephrase more calmly. (That's one of many ideas; not "the right
answer.")
-=- guess I was hoping that giving him his freedom would
automatically take care of all the past injustices he�s felt.-=-
Have you apologized to him?
Have you explained (briefly, occasionally) why you've changed?
A little explanation is better than too much.
A little apology is better than too much.
-=- I still feel awful and just don�t know how to understand him and
his needs better. -=-
Gradually, one clue at a time, you can figure out how you can make
his life more comfortable.
-=-DH had a talk with him, which wasn�t the kind of
talk I wanted him to have, because he basically told Thomas that it
really
upset him to see me upset and that if he found that Thomas was
treating me
rudely again, he�d be in lots of trouble. Well, I don�t want him
treating me
well because he�s afraid of getting in trouble!
-=-
You might ask your husband if he was treating your son the way he
wants your son to treat him and you. Kids learn better by example
than by lecture. It will take a while for him to trust that you've
changed, if you can and do change. You're not there yet, and it will
take a while. Then it will take another while for him to relax and
trust the new situation.
-=- It�s just been since September,
but I want things to be joyful and come naturally right now.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/peace/noisy
There's something about peace in the home. One quote:
Choices
Unless you considered two or three courses of actions, you didn't
really make a choice at all. Consciously think of two choices before
you act�then make the better choice. Your range of choices will get
better as you do this. While you're helping your child learn to
choose, you can also learn to choose.
If you would ordinarily yell, choose between yelling and speaking
softly. If speaking softly works better, but you said too much, next
time choose between saying a little bit softly or saying a lot
softly. Yelling is off the list, until the next time you forget to
make a choice. Or maybe you'll choose yelling over screaming and
breaking something. But think of two things each time and choose the
one that's "getting warmer" in terms of the kind of mom you want to be.
-=- It�s just been since September, but I want things to be joyful
and come naturally right now.-=-
First the parents change and become comfortable with the new ways,
and then the kids can start to change.
I'm going to take the stuff about chores to another thread.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Silvia Barrett
-=-I really don’t want to get beat up over this on the list, but I
need help
figuring this out.-=-
Your kid didn't want to get beat up about bringing in a glass or
responding badly, but he needs help figuring things out.
If you think of direct advice as being "beat up" it seems you're
declaring yourself too sensitive to accept input. We could all coo
and soothe you (if any of us felt like spending volunteer time to
keep you comfortable where you are instead of helping you get
unschooling). That's not what you need.
** No, I think direct advice is what I'm asking for, but I'm already beating
myself up over what I feel I'm doing wrong, so I'm hoping I'll get advice
and not recriminations. That's all I was trying to say. I know that you can
respond in ways that can be very critical or maybe just very bluntly to
parents, but that's not how you'd respond to a child. I'm just saying, give
me the advice, give me suggestions for changing, but don’t put me down, or
how will I listen then? Just as children deserve respect when they don't
understand and are asking for advice. I'm not asking for anyone to spend
volunteer time to keep me comfortable. I wouldn't be here if I wanted to be
comfortable. I do need help with getting unschooling and I know that. **
-=-He sometimes treats me
disrespectfully/rudely at home and out in public, and that is such a trigger
for me. I usually try to continue talking calmly to him and ignore the
rudeness and hear the message.-=-
If what you're doing isn't working, don't do it. If you continue
talking calmly when he's gotten to the point that he's emotional, how
does that help? Maybe not talking at all would be better. Just
calmly disengage, maybe. When you feel like talking again, when
you're not in public, when you've calmed down, ask him if he can
rephrase more calmly. (That's one of many ideas; not "the right
answer.")
** I can see how asking him to rephrase more calmly would work in certain
situations. In the case of remaining calm while he's angry, I was hoping
that by not getting emotional, I wouldn't be feeding his anger, that he
would see I was still talking to him and trying to understand what was going
on, even though he was upset, and sometimes that really does work, he gets
calmed down and talks to me. Obviously it doesn't work every time. Not
talking to him seems like ignoring him--do you mean something else?
I don't think that disengaging is always possible, in public, because I need
to know if he's coming inside a store with me or staying in the car, etc. If
I've locked the doors because I think he's joining us, but he wants to get
in the car instead and yells at me, but I'm already in the store, that
doesn't help. In this particular instance, which happened on Thursday and
prompted me to write in the first place, he had misunderstood where we were
going, because he wasn't listening to me while I was talking to my daughter
about how to get to the store. We were stopping at a thrift shop she wanted
to go to before it closed. My son got out of the car and started crossing
the street to go where he thought we were going. I told him where we were
actually going, tried to explain why I thought he'd gotten confused, and he
started yelling that that's not what I had said earlier. Then, as we were
walking to the store, he was really angry and calling me names, etc. He
started walking back to the car. I hadn't really responded to his yelling,
other than to explain what we were doing, but did ask if he was going to
wait in the car or if he wanted to come in with us, and he kept up the
yelling. Then he came inside. While we're inside he's still angry, then sees
a large buck knife in a display case and asks if he can buy it. All of a
sudden he's not mad at me. I completely understand how this change can
happen. I was the same when I was younger--sudden mood change from angry to
happy, etc. So that's not an issue. But I don't know what I could have done
during all this instead. I am open to suggestions. I know something similar
will happen again and would like to be prepared. **
-=- guess I was hoping that giving him his freedom would
automatically take care of all the past injustices he’s felt.-=-
Have you apologized to him?
Have you explained (briefly, occasionally) why you've changed?
A little explanation is better than too much.
A little apology is better than too much.
** I've apologized for not starting on the RU path sooner, told him I wish
we'd known about this sooner, and have tried to explain why we're changing,
but he's really not interested in listening to me when he thinks I'm trying
to talk "seriously" to him. And when I do something completely stupid and
opposite of what I *want* to be doing as a parent, I apologize. **
-=- I still feel awful and just don’t know how to understand him and
his needs better. -=-
Gradually, one clue at a time, you can figure out how you can make
his life more comfortable.
** I've told him since the big Thursday incident that I really want to
understand him and what it is he needs. I know he can't tell me himself, he
probably doesn't know, just knows when he's not getting his particular needs
met. **
-=-DH had a talk with him, which wasn’t the kind of
talk I wanted him to have, because he basically told Thomas that it really
upset him to see me upset and that if he found that Thomas was treating me
rudely again, he’d be in lots of trouble. Well, I don’t want him treating me
well because he’s afraid of getting in trouble!
-=-
You might ask your husband if he was treating your son the way he
wants your son to treat him and you. Kids learn better by example
than by lecture. It will take a while for him to trust that you've
changed, if you can and do change. You're not there yet, and it will
take a while. Then it will take another while for him to relax and
trust the new situation.
** I have, and DH was saying back in September that he was totally on board
with RU, after the conference, but he's not with the kids as much as I am
and doesn't need to be thinking about how to be different as much as I do,
because his time is limited with them. So he listens to what I say about no
chores, no rules, etc, but he still wants them to clean up after themselves.
I told him that he doesn't see the things I see during the day, that keep me
thinking this can work. He just sees a few hours in the evenings and the
weekends. He doesn't observe their behavior like I do. I'm trying to explain
that this will work if we keep at it, but I'm also still not getting it
completely, so I have a hard time answering his questions on what to expect
from the kids, how they'll change, how this whole thing will work out in the
end. And when I'm frustrated and tell him about my big blow-up, he sees it
as a reason not to be on this path. It's frustrating to say the least. **
-=- It’s just been since September,
but I want things to be joyful and come naturally right now.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/peace/noisy
There's something about peace in the home. One quote:
Choices
Unless you considered two or three courses of actions, you didn't
really make a choice at all. Consciously think of two choices before
you act—then make the better choice. Your range of choices will get
better as you do this. While you're helping your child learn to
choose, you can also learn to choose.
If you would ordinarily yell, choose between yelling and speaking
softly. If speaking softly works better, but you said too much, next
time choose between saying a little bit softly or saying a lot
softly. Yelling is off the list, until the next time you forget to
make a choice. Or maybe you'll choose yelling over screaming and
breaking something. But think of two things each time and choose the
one that's "getting warmer" in terms of the kind of mom you want to be.
-=- It’s just been since September, but I want things to be joyful
and come naturally right now.-=-
First the parents change and become comfortable with the new ways,
and then the kids can start to change.
** I thought I was doing well by not yelling back, by talking calmly in the
midst of my son's angry yelling. Maybe I can ask him what he'd like me to do
the next time he's frustrated and angry. **
I'm going to take the stuff about chores to another thread.
Sandra
Thank you,
Silvia
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1123 - Release Date: 11/10/2007
3:47 PM
need help
figuring this out.-=-
Your kid didn't want to get beat up about bringing in a glass or
responding badly, but he needs help figuring things out.
If you think of direct advice as being "beat up" it seems you're
declaring yourself too sensitive to accept input. We could all coo
and soothe you (if any of us felt like spending volunteer time to
keep you comfortable where you are instead of helping you get
unschooling). That's not what you need.
** No, I think direct advice is what I'm asking for, but I'm already beating
myself up over what I feel I'm doing wrong, so I'm hoping I'll get advice
and not recriminations. That's all I was trying to say. I know that you can
respond in ways that can be very critical or maybe just very bluntly to
parents, but that's not how you'd respond to a child. I'm just saying, give
me the advice, give me suggestions for changing, but don’t put me down, or
how will I listen then? Just as children deserve respect when they don't
understand and are asking for advice. I'm not asking for anyone to spend
volunteer time to keep me comfortable. I wouldn't be here if I wanted to be
comfortable. I do need help with getting unschooling and I know that. **
-=-He sometimes treats me
disrespectfully/rudely at home and out in public, and that is such a trigger
for me. I usually try to continue talking calmly to him and ignore the
rudeness and hear the message.-=-
If what you're doing isn't working, don't do it. If you continue
talking calmly when he's gotten to the point that he's emotional, how
does that help? Maybe not talking at all would be better. Just
calmly disengage, maybe. When you feel like talking again, when
you're not in public, when you've calmed down, ask him if he can
rephrase more calmly. (That's one of many ideas; not "the right
answer.")
** I can see how asking him to rephrase more calmly would work in certain
situations. In the case of remaining calm while he's angry, I was hoping
that by not getting emotional, I wouldn't be feeding his anger, that he
would see I was still talking to him and trying to understand what was going
on, even though he was upset, and sometimes that really does work, he gets
calmed down and talks to me. Obviously it doesn't work every time. Not
talking to him seems like ignoring him--do you mean something else?
I don't think that disengaging is always possible, in public, because I need
to know if he's coming inside a store with me or staying in the car, etc. If
I've locked the doors because I think he's joining us, but he wants to get
in the car instead and yells at me, but I'm already in the store, that
doesn't help. In this particular instance, which happened on Thursday and
prompted me to write in the first place, he had misunderstood where we were
going, because he wasn't listening to me while I was talking to my daughter
about how to get to the store. We were stopping at a thrift shop she wanted
to go to before it closed. My son got out of the car and started crossing
the street to go where he thought we were going. I told him where we were
actually going, tried to explain why I thought he'd gotten confused, and he
started yelling that that's not what I had said earlier. Then, as we were
walking to the store, he was really angry and calling me names, etc. He
started walking back to the car. I hadn't really responded to his yelling,
other than to explain what we were doing, but did ask if he was going to
wait in the car or if he wanted to come in with us, and he kept up the
yelling. Then he came inside. While we're inside he's still angry, then sees
a large buck knife in a display case and asks if he can buy it. All of a
sudden he's not mad at me. I completely understand how this change can
happen. I was the same when I was younger--sudden mood change from angry to
happy, etc. So that's not an issue. But I don't know what I could have done
during all this instead. I am open to suggestions. I know something similar
will happen again and would like to be prepared. **
-=- guess I was hoping that giving him his freedom would
automatically take care of all the past injustices he’s felt.-=-
Have you apologized to him?
Have you explained (briefly, occasionally) why you've changed?
A little explanation is better than too much.
A little apology is better than too much.
** I've apologized for not starting on the RU path sooner, told him I wish
we'd known about this sooner, and have tried to explain why we're changing,
but he's really not interested in listening to me when he thinks I'm trying
to talk "seriously" to him. And when I do something completely stupid and
opposite of what I *want* to be doing as a parent, I apologize. **
-=- I still feel awful and just don’t know how to understand him and
his needs better. -=-
Gradually, one clue at a time, you can figure out how you can make
his life more comfortable.
** I've told him since the big Thursday incident that I really want to
understand him and what it is he needs. I know he can't tell me himself, he
probably doesn't know, just knows when he's not getting his particular needs
met. **
-=-DH had a talk with him, which wasn’t the kind of
talk I wanted him to have, because he basically told Thomas that it really
upset him to see me upset and that if he found that Thomas was treating me
rudely again, he’d be in lots of trouble. Well, I don’t want him treating me
well because he’s afraid of getting in trouble!
-=-
You might ask your husband if he was treating your son the way he
wants your son to treat him and you. Kids learn better by example
than by lecture. It will take a while for him to trust that you've
changed, if you can and do change. You're not there yet, and it will
take a while. Then it will take another while for him to relax and
trust the new situation.
** I have, and DH was saying back in September that he was totally on board
with RU, after the conference, but he's not with the kids as much as I am
and doesn't need to be thinking about how to be different as much as I do,
because his time is limited with them. So he listens to what I say about no
chores, no rules, etc, but he still wants them to clean up after themselves.
I told him that he doesn't see the things I see during the day, that keep me
thinking this can work. He just sees a few hours in the evenings and the
weekends. He doesn't observe their behavior like I do. I'm trying to explain
that this will work if we keep at it, but I'm also still not getting it
completely, so I have a hard time answering his questions on what to expect
from the kids, how they'll change, how this whole thing will work out in the
end. And when I'm frustrated and tell him about my big blow-up, he sees it
as a reason not to be on this path. It's frustrating to say the least. **
-=- It’s just been since September,
but I want things to be joyful and come naturally right now.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/peace/noisy
There's something about peace in the home. One quote:
Choices
Unless you considered two or three courses of actions, you didn't
really make a choice at all. Consciously think of two choices before
you act—then make the better choice. Your range of choices will get
better as you do this. While you're helping your child learn to
choose, you can also learn to choose.
If you would ordinarily yell, choose between yelling and speaking
softly. If speaking softly works better, but you said too much, next
time choose between saying a little bit softly or saying a lot
softly. Yelling is off the list, until the next time you forget to
make a choice. Or maybe you'll choose yelling over screaming and
breaking something. But think of two things each time and choose the
one that's "getting warmer" in terms of the kind of mom you want to be.
-=- It’s just been since September, but I want things to be joyful
and come naturally right now.-=-
First the parents change and become comfortable with the new ways,
and then the kids can start to change.
** I thought I was doing well by not yelling back, by talking calmly in the
midst of my son's angry yelling. Maybe I can ask him what he'd like me to do
the next time he's frustrated and angry. **
I'm going to take the stuff about chores to another thread.
Sandra
Thank you,
Silvia
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.28/1123 - Release Date: 11/10/2007
3:47 PM
Sandra Dodd
-=- No, I think direct advice is what I'm asking for, but I'm already
beating
myself up over what I feel I'm doing wrong, so I'm hoping I'll get
advice
and not recriminations. That's all I was trying to say.-=-
In another forum, someone asked for "good advice."
It's just insulting to the people who are helping others get this to
suggest right up front that one only wants certain kinds of advice,
presented in particular ways.
-=- I know that you can
respond in ways that can be very critical or maybe just very bluntly to
parents, but that's not how you'd respond to a child. -=-
On what basis should I treat adults--other parents--like children?
I don't want to. Other parents are not children.
I want to treat their CHILDREN like children, and help them to do so
better. I want to help your children have a better life. Yours
would automatically become better along with all that.
-=- but don’t put me down, or how will I listen then?-=-
I don't know if you'll listen or not, but I'm going to provide
feedback the way I want to. Whether you listen is all on your end.
I don't get paid by the hour, nor by piecework. It's all voluntary.
Maybe you'd be more comfortable just reading things that were written
before you started unschooling, so you won't take it personally or
fear offense.
http://sandradodd.com
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://learninginfreedom.com/
http://unschooling.info/forum/
You're welcome to stay on the list, but let's talk about unschooling,
parenting and situations more than about our own feelings, please.
If talking about your feelings will be helpful to others, that's
different. If talking about feelings is intended to affect the way
the others of us write, that's inappropriate for a discussion of
issues and ideas.
Sandra
beating
myself up over what I feel I'm doing wrong, so I'm hoping I'll get
advice
and not recriminations. That's all I was trying to say.-=-
In another forum, someone asked for "good advice."
It's just insulting to the people who are helping others get this to
suggest right up front that one only wants certain kinds of advice,
presented in particular ways.
-=- I know that you can
respond in ways that can be very critical or maybe just very bluntly to
parents, but that's not how you'd respond to a child. -=-
On what basis should I treat adults--other parents--like children?
I don't want to. Other parents are not children.
I want to treat their CHILDREN like children, and help them to do so
better. I want to help your children have a better life. Yours
would automatically become better along with all that.
-=- but don’t put me down, or how will I listen then?-=-
I don't know if you'll listen or not, but I'm going to provide
feedback the way I want to. Whether you listen is all on your end.
I don't get paid by the hour, nor by piecework. It's all voluntary.
Maybe you'd be more comfortable just reading things that were written
before you started unschooling, so you won't take it personally or
fear offense.
http://sandradodd.com
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://learninginfreedom.com/
http://unschooling.info/forum/
You're welcome to stay on the list, but let's talk about unschooling,
parenting and situations more than about our own feelings, please.
If talking about your feelings will be helpful to others, that's
different. If talking about feelings is intended to affect the way
the others of us write, that's inappropriate for a discussion of
issues and ideas.
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 11, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Silvia Barrett wrote:
can be infuriating, too.
Be sure you're making eye contact, not avoiding it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> In the case of remaining calm while he's angry, I was hopingYour "remain calm" demeanor might be coming across as detached. That
> that by not getting emotional, I wouldn't be feeding his anger,
> that he
> would see I was still talking to him and trying to understand what
> was going
> on, even though he was upset, and sometimes that really does work,
> he gets
> calmed down and talks to me. Obviously it doesn't work every time.
can be infuriating, too.
Be sure you're making eye contact, not avoiding it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 11, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Silvia Barrett wrote:
Take more time to communicate in advance to him, don't expect him to
just vicariously pick up on what's going on.
I bet you can come to understand him better and cause less
frustration in his life if you think more along the lines of multiple
intelligences. I think you're expecting his to be more like yours
(and probably your daughter's) than it is. Try to focus on making
sure he has information, in advance, about all kinds of things
including where you are going, what to expect there, who is going to
be there, what the situation is likely to be, and so on.
Treat him more respectfully. I know this was just one sentence out of
a lot of stuff you posted, but it really does indicate a lack of
understanding of him and his needs. You're blaming his anger/
frustration on him - it is HIS fault because HE wasn't listening when
you were telling your daughter something?
Instead, you could have said: "I didn't tell him where we were going,
didn't give him direct information about what to expect."
Or - "I dragged him along not even bothering to tell him where we
were going, much less making sure he was part of deciding when and
where to go."
When put that way, it probably doesn't seem very surprising that he
got angry at you, does it?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> he had misunderstood where we wereUmmm - you were talking to your daughter, not to him?
> going, because he wasn't listening to me while I was talking to my
> daughter
> about how to get to the store.
Take more time to communicate in advance to him, don't expect him to
just vicariously pick up on what's going on.
I bet you can come to understand him better and cause less
frustration in his life if you think more along the lines of multiple
intelligences. I think you're expecting his to be more like yours
(and probably your daughter's) than it is. Try to focus on making
sure he has information, in advance, about all kinds of things
including where you are going, what to expect there, who is going to
be there, what the situation is likely to be, and so on.
Treat him more respectfully. I know this was just one sentence out of
a lot of stuff you posted, but it really does indicate a lack of
understanding of him and his needs. You're blaming his anger/
frustration on him - it is HIS fault because HE wasn't listening when
you were telling your daughter something?
Instead, you could have said: "I didn't tell him where we were going,
didn't give him direct information about what to expect."
Or - "I dragged him along not even bothering to tell him where we
were going, much less making sure he was part of deciding when and
where to go."
When put that way, it probably doesn't seem very surprising that he
got angry at you, does it?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Silvia Barrett
I see what you�re saying. I try to maintain eye contact, if he�ll look at
me, get down to his level, talk calmly. I can�t always do that, but usually
I do. I think I�ve been trying to avoid getting caught up in his anger and
not listening to what he�s really saying.
Silvia
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Pamela Sorooshian
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: anger in an 8 yo, was RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: anger and
sadness in 5 yo
Your "remain calm" demeanor might be coming across as detached. That
can be infuriating, too.
Be sure you're making eye contact, not avoiding it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me, get down to his level, talk calmly. I can�t always do that, but usually
I do. I think I�ve been trying to avoid getting caught up in his anger and
not listening to what he�s really saying.
Silvia
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Pamela Sorooshian
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: anger in an 8 yo, was RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: anger and
sadness in 5 yo
Your "remain calm" demeanor might be coming across as detached. That
can be infuriating, too.
Be sure you're making eye contact, not avoiding it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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10:12 AM
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Silvia Barrett
In another forum, someone asked for "good advice."
It's just insulting to the people who are helping others get this to
suggest right up front that one only wants certain kinds of advice,
presented in particular ways.
**Well, then I will rescind my qualifications for the kind of help I'm
looking for. I have been doing a lot of reading, of the sites you mention
and books and other blogs. But I'm also needing discussion, I guess. That's
how I work things out in my head--but out loud--and I do like feedback. I
just don't see how a parents' feelings can be divorced from their
interactions with their children, so I thought it was germain to the topic I
brought up.**
Silvia
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12:56 PM
It's just insulting to the people who are helping others get this to
suggest right up front that one only wants certain kinds of advice,
presented in particular ways.
**Well, then I will rescind my qualifications for the kind of help I'm
looking for. I have been doing a lot of reading, of the sites you mention
and books and other blogs. But I'm also needing discussion, I guess. That's
how I work things out in my head--but out loud--and I do like feedback. I
just don't see how a parents' feelings can be divorced from their
interactions with their children, so I thought it was germain to the topic I
brought up.**
Silvia
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12:56 PM