halfshadow1

Yes, I know there can be a positive realistic outlook too<g>.
My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).
My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
and so on. My husband said if i think the world is a beautiful
place(meaning peoplewise) I am dreaming.
I am thinking how to go about letting Lukas know this or if we should?
What's you all's take on it?
thanks,Heather

wisdomalways5

For all the bad that happens there is a million good- you can see and
live in goodness if you choose to- even in the middle of harshness

most people are good people but if you think the world is ugly then
ugly is what you get- if you think the world is good that is also what
you get

does not mean bad stuff will not happen to you but it does effect your
life


--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1" <halfshadow1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, I know there can be a positive realistic outlook too<g>.
> My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
> before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
> to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
> give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).
> My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
> trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
> and so on. My husband said if i think the world is a beautiful
> place(meaning peoplewise) I am dreaming.
> I am thinking how to go about letting Lukas know this or if we should?
> What's you all's take on it?
> thanks,Heather
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).-=-

He wants him to have a negative, cynical, awful picture of people
before he's grown, it sounds like to me.

His wife or girlfriend might not give a rat's ass about him if he
becomes that cynical.

-=-My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
and so on.-=-

Have you found better friends? I hope so!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

"What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. The human mind can be
viewed as having two main functions: a thinker and a prover. The
thinker can think anything. The prover has no such choice: whatever the
thinker thinks, the prover arranges all incoming information to prove
that thought to be true.

If a person believes they are stupid, their prover will sort and filter
all incoming data to prove that belief to be true. If they believe they
are clever, the prover will sort and filter incoming data to prove that
belief true. If you believe you will always be poor, that life is
unfair, and that people are basically rotten, your prover will find
evidence of those beliefs. If you believe that you can become
fantastically wealthy, that life is a wonderful adventure, and that
people are intrinsically good, your prover will create an iron clad
case to prove those beliefs to be correct.

Of course, over time, the external reality of your life comes into line
with whatever you've been thinking. So if you're unsure about what you
believe, there's an easy way to find out: have a look around! Your
external circumstances are the physical manifestation of your beliefs.

You might even like to ask yourself what beliefs it would be useful for
you to have. What the thinker thinks, the prover proves."

Jamie Smart, www.saladltd.co.uk





--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1" <halfshadow1@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, I know there can be a positive realistic outlook too<g>.
> My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
> before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
> to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
> give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).
> My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
> trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
> and so on. My husband said if i think the world is a beautiful
> place(meaning peoplewise) I am dreaming.
> I am thinking how to go about letting Lukas know this or if we should?
> What's you all's take on it?
> thanks,Heather
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 5, 2007, at 8:43 PM, halfshadow1 wrote:

> My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
> before he's grown.

If he isn't protected from living life he'll meet a gamut of people.
Some will be a great help. Some will want to squash others down
because they feel they only way to keep on top is by squashing the
competition. And all sorts in between.

> He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on.

Which is no more realistic than believing that everyone is nice.

> My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
> trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
> and so on
>
While predators are drawn to the naive, whole and happy people are
drawn to whole and happy people.

Turning your son into a cynic may protect him from predators, but it
will also make him see everyone as a predator. He will take on
aspects of Scrooge who saw everyone as coming to take what he had.
People who don't appreciate being thought of as grasping will avoid
him. Nice people don't like being seen as evil so they won't be drawn
to be friends with him.

So it will be self fulfilling. He'll will drive away the nice people
and only the fellow cynics will hang out with him. So the world will
seem like it's full of nasty people.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

momma

> > He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> > cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on.
>
In my experience, people who feel this way tend to think the rest of
the world is that way because that is how they are. My husband and
mother are both very pesimistic and cynical. It amazes me how often
they "get screwed." Funny how it doesn't happen to me very often. I try
to assume that people are doing the best they can because I know I am.
So much of life is perception. When someone is a coniving, mean,
underhanded person they assume everyone else is the same way. That is
thier mindset.
Aubrey

Sunday Cote

> Yes, I know there can be a positive realistic outlook too<g>.
> My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
> before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
> to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
> give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).

This seems to be a gross over-generalization that could have very
devastating consequences for your son. Can you really look around your
personal world - not the TV world or the News Reports - and say that
MOST of the people you know are cruel and back-stabbing? Does this
include you and your husband? Does it include the people you work with,
your family and neighbors? To live with this fearful, angry, harsh,
judgmental view of people must create a very unhappy life. Is this
really what you want to pass on to your child to carry with him the rest
of his life?

> My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
> trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
> and so on.

I’m sorry that you have had some terrible things happen to you. I know
that it can be hard to not see the world as a negative place when you've
had such negative experiences. I don't know you and can't begin to
understand the circumstances that brought you to that place, however I
do think that there was a lot more going on than just being naïve and
trusting.

As some have already mentioned, our thoughts and beliefs are a huge
factor in how we experience the world. And I’m not just talking about
the spiritual belief in Law of Attraction or "The Secret." You don't
have to believe in that in order to benefit from an attitude that the
world is generally a safe and good place.

There is a growing field called Positive Psychology that has done some
serious research on the benefits of having a positive outlook on life.
People who see the world in generally positive ways tend to be
healthier, live longer and report the most satisfaction in life. This
doesn't mean that bad things don't happen to them, but they have a
resiliency that helps them through negative events. People who don't
hold on to past grudges and find things to be grateful for and who are
optimistic about their future live happier, healthier lives.

There are ways to teach your son how to be cautious and smart about his
interactions in the world without setting him up with huge emotional
armor and fear. From an Unschooling perspective, the greatest thing you
can do for your child is to help him cultivate his inner resources to
make wise choices about his safety and the people he befriends or comes
in contact with.

We all have a type of radar within us that draws us to those who match
our ideas about the world. This is mostly done unconsciously. For
example, in my younger years, all the men I met and dated seemed to be
alcoholic philanderers. All the men my friends dated matched that same
description. Most all of my friends had really dysfunctional
relationships. When I discovered the power of my beliefs and thoughts I
began to change that reality. I started looking around for other
examples of nice men. I made a conscious choice to find couples who
were in loving, committed healthy relationships. I started working on my
own self-esteem and changing what I believed was possible in a
relationship. It took dedication and some time, but soon I started
meeting men who were not alcoholics and started befriending women who
were in good relationships. I met and married my husband, who is
genuinely an honest and good person. Now I can say that MOST of the men
I meet are just really nice hard-working loving guys. This doesn't mean
that I don't come into contact with men who are not nice, but they are
just simply not on my radar anymore. If I do meet them, I don't choose
to engage or I'm just not interested in doing business with them, etc.
Empowering your child to know that he has ability to attract nice, safe,
caring people into his life can be the greatest gift you give him.

My husband said if i think the world is a beautiful
> place(meaning peoplewise) I am dreaming.
> I am thinking how to go about letting Lukas know this or if we should?
> What's you all's take on it?

Heather, I do hope you seriously reconsider giving your son such a dark
view of the world. You and your husband are his greatest influence
though, so your son has probably already picked up on your negative
attitudes and fears. Unless you are committed to changing your own
world view, your son will most likely play out your fears in his own
life. I hope that you look into resources that might help your whole
family have a more optimistic view (and experience) of people in your
lives.

Wishing you the best,
Sunday

Sandra Dodd

-=-This doesn't mean
that I don't come into contact with men who are not nice, but they are
just simply not on my radar anymore. If I do meet them, I don't choose
to engage or I'm just not interested in doing business with them,
etc.-=-

I meet all kinds of people, but the ones I "keep" are the honest ones.

I told someone a few months ago that all of my friends are honest.
He laughed at me and said I was wrong. I was calm about it, because
he's very young and hangs around with bullshitters, and doesn't know
there are better people out there. I have some new and unproven
friends, and always have and might always have. But as to the
friends I trust, I only have friends I can trust. That seems WAY
too obvious, but if I find out someone is cruel or a liar, I quit
considering them a go-to, confide-in friend. If I have to deal with
them for some reason, I do it cautiously and in a limited way. That
makes them acquaintances or associates, and not friends.

I've had years to sort through my friends, though, and lots of
opportunities come up naturally to tell who's honest. I never set up
"tests," ever. I never have. I consider that to be cruel and
dishonest.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Tellew

<<My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).>>>

Here's something I read that addresses this notion quite powerfully:

THE DAILY GROOVE ~ by Scott Noelle
www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove

:: "I'm Not A Frog-Boiler!" ::

When you reject authoritarian, coercive parenting in
favor of non-punitive, pleasure-oriented parenting,
critics and naysayers will warn you that your child
won't be able to cope in the "real" world.

The assumption is that "it's a jungle out there" and
we should gradually toughen up our kids and get them
used to suffering so they won't be shocked when they
venture out into the big, bad world.

It's like that famous experiment where they tossed a
healthy frog in boiling water and it leaped right out.
But if they put the frog in cool water and raised the
temperature gradually over several days, the frog
would be able to *adjust* and stay in the water.

The slow boil seems more humane, but that
"well-adjusted" frog eventually *died* from the heat!
Whereas the non-adjusted frog's intact sensitivity
protected it from being boiled.

Today, look for evidence that your child's sensitivity
is intact (e.g., negative reactions to unwanted
conditions) and be *grateful* for it! Tell yourself,
"My child will *never* get boiled!"

http://dailygroove.net/frog-boiler

Feel free to forward this message to your friends!
(Please include this paragraph and everything above.)
Copyright (c) 2007 by Scott Noelle



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

oldmanjes

A perfectly valid allegory Pam, but the pedant in me can't resist
pointing out that the oft-used frog boiling story is pure urban
legend. ;) I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment though.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp

J

Ed Wendell

I cannot imagine "proving" this theory either ! Just for the sake of proving / disproving it that is. Though some other more scientific mind might I guess. ;)

Lisa - who does like frog legs. Frog hunting in the night along the edge of the pond with a flash light was an exciting adventure as a child!



From: oldmanjes


the oft-used frog boiling story is pure urban
legend. ;)
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-As I recall 'Stag's Blood' was/is one of the Outlandish battle
slogans. -=-

When "Stag's Blood" is called out, it's by one of the members of that
order, probably to his teammates who are also of that order. That
might have made it into a song about Trelon, but it's not an Outlands
song (as far as Gunwaldt, Artan or I know).

What Outlanders in general are most likely to yell is "Outlands."

I think it's very cool, though, that you used the word "slogan"
because just a couple of weeks ago we had a kind of household
workshop on mottos, and slogans were discussed (by Duke Artan, who is
the premier of the order of the Stag's Blood, though that had nothing
to do with that discussion).

AElflaed
Outlands

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

On Nov 5, 2007, at 5:43 PM, halfshadow1 wrote:

> Yes, I know there can be a positive realistic outlook too<g>.
> My husband wants to make sure Lukas has a realistic picture of people
> before he's grown. He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on. He wants Lukas
> to know that the world is a cold,hard place and no one is going to
> give a rats ass about him(except his wife,girlfriend).
> My experiance has brought me to know this is true also. I was very
> trusting and naive growing up and i was molested,ripped off, tricked
> and so on. My husband said if i think the world is a beautiful
> place(meaning peoplewise) I am dreaming.
> I am thinking how to go about letting Lukas know this or if we should?
> What's you all's take on it?
> thanks,Heather
>

The mind is its own place, and in itself / Can make a heaven of hell, a
hell of heaven. -John Milton (1608-1674) [Paradise Lost]

halfshadow1

Excuse me,my husband nor I are conniving,mean or underhanded! I am not
pessimestic. As i wrote, my husband tends to be sometimes.--- In
[email protected], "momma" <southernbelle@...> wrote:
>
> > > He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> > > cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on.
> >
> In my experience, people who feel this way tend to think the rest of
> the world is that way because that is how they are. My husband and
> mother are both very pesimistic and cynical. It amazes me how often
> they "get screwed." Funny how it doesn't happen to me very often. I try
> to assume that people are doing the best they can because I know I am.
> So much of life is perception. When someone is a coniving, mean,
> underhanded person they assume everyone else is the same way. That is
> thier mindset.
> Aubrey
>

tracy

Hi~
In your subject you wrote positive outlook -vs- realistic
outlook...and the way you describe "realistic" sounds pretty
negative. I think a realistic outlook contains both the positive and
the negative, I think that is important for our kids to know. There
is a balance between good and bad...life is like a battery, there is
both a positive and a negative :-)
Peace~Love~Free~
Tracy




--- In [email protected], "halfshadow1"
<halfshadow1@...> wrote:
>
> Excuse me,my husband nor I are conniving,mean or underhanded! I am
not
> pessimestic. As i wrote, my husband tends to be sometimes.--- In
> [email protected], "momma" <southernbelle@> wrote:
> >
> > > > He wants Lukas to know that most people are
> > > > cruel,back stabbing,only out for themselves and so on.
> > >
> > In my experience, people who feel this way tend to think the rest
of
> > the world is that way because that is how they are. My husband
and
> > mother are both very pesimistic and cynical. It amazes me how
often
> > they "get screwed." Funny how it doesn't happen to me very often.
I try
> > to assume that people are doing the best they can because I know
I am.
> > So much of life is perception. When someone is a coniving, mean,
> > underhanded person they assume everyone else is the same way.
That is
> > thier mindset.
> > Aubrey
> >
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think that is important for our kids to know. There
is a balance between good and bad...life is like a battery, there is
both a positive and a negative :-)-=-

I agree.
And it's important for parents to learn and believe and LIVE that
they can make more positive choices, and that more positive attitudes
make life better right that instant.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tracy

Absolutely!It's worth repeating!!

>> it's important for parents to learn and believe and LIVE that
> they can make more positive choices, and that more positive
attitudes
> make life better right that instant.

Tracy



--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I think that is important for our kids to know. There
> is a balance between good and bad...life is like a battery, there is
> both a positive and a negative :-)-=-
>
> I agree.
> And it's important for parents to learn and believe and LIVE that
> they can make more positive choices, and that more positive
attitudes
> make life better right that instant.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

halfshadow1

More good news...my husband said the same thing this morning...:)---
In [email protected], "tracy" <tracyliebmann@...> wrote:
>
> Absolutely!It's worth repeating!!
>
> >> it's important for parents to learn and believe and LIVE that
> > they can make more positive choices, and that more positive
> attitudes
> > make life better right that instant.
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@> wrote:
> >
> > -=-I think that is important for our kids to know. There
> > is a balance between good and bad...life is like a battery, there is
> > both a positive and a negative :-)-=-
> >
> > I agree.
> > And it's important for parents to learn and believe and LIVE that
> > they can make more positive choices, and that more positive
> attitudes
> > make life better right that instant.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Bob Collier

That's true. However, in my experience at least, the word 'realistic'
has been hijacked by people who use it to mean they think something
won't work, or it's too difficult, or they don't want you to do it, and
so on.

Bob


--- In [email protected], "tracy" <tracyliebmann@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi~
> In your subject you wrote positive outlook -vs- realistic
> outlook...and the way you describe "realistic" sounds pretty
> negative. I think a realistic outlook contains both the positive and
> the negative, I think that is important for our kids to know.