g-liberatedlearning

Here's a good article in Tulsa Kids featuring Leslie Moyer and Jenny
Thompson. Leslie has been my mentor for over 17 years and her kids
are amazing!

http://www.tulsakids.com/editors-choice/2007/oct-1.html

Chris in IA
Learning in the (F)unzone

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jenstarc4

What I find interesting about it, is that it doesn't have the
unschooling article formula that we see all the time. It has one
educational expert giving that old argument about how it might work
for some kids, if the parents and/or kids are interested in learning,
but that for kids that aren't, it's not going to work.

Lame argument, and it was countered in the article by quoting John
Holt. That part was cool.

Other parts of the article didn't seem very unschooly, like the whole
chores thing, and how subject matter was discussed and dissected, but
that could be the writer's interpretation of what was actually said.

I did like this list:

Leslie Moyer offers the following list to help determine if
unschooling is right for your family:
• Willingness to invest time in your child
•Willingness to research resources for learning experiences
•Cooperation from partner or spouse
•An appreciation of your child's unique strengths
•Willingness to develop and explore your own passionate interests (be
a role model of learning)
•Willingness to rely on direct observation for "proof" of learning
•Have respectful, two-way communication about learning
•Commitment to put your relationship with your child before any
educational matter
•Willingness to let go of your own expectations about your child's
adult life
•Ability to let go of pre-conceived notions about what
constitutes "education"
•Acceptance of the idea that we don't have control over what happens
in someone else's brain

That's a really good starting point for "getting" unschooling. That
is the aspect of unschooling that I came to know first, then it
infiltrated into the rest of our lives, like chores, eating,
bedtimes, and all that other stuff that gets so highly regulated by
parents in the lives of kids.

harmony

> •Cooperation from partner or spouse

Do any of you not have cooperation?

My husband (kids step dad) is absolutely against homeschooling. He has the attitude that kids should shut up, listen to adults, only speak when you are spoken to, or dad will take you out behind the tool shed and you won't be able to sit for a week. He feels that kids need to go to school to learn anything, because, after all, how can they learn if they aren't out in the "real world"???!!!??

We have discussed it a lot and have very opposite points of view. We have pretty much agreed to disagree and it drives him nuts that the kids don't "do school work" (If I won't give in and put them in school, I might as well do it at home, right?) Every time he complains about them not doing their work, I just say "they aren't in school, they don't do school work" If I ever point out cool projects that they have been working on that are educational he just gets irritated.

Anyone else dealing with a noncoperative spouse?
Harmony

Meredith

> My husband (kids step dad) is absolutely against homeschooling.

Keep in mind that you can't "make" someone unschool or "teach"
someone to unschool. If he feels like you are trying to force
unschooling on him he's going to resist.

It might be helpful for you and he to have a serious discussion on
the subject of personal values. Find some common ground as a place
to start. Find a way for everyone in the family to be on the
same "side" rather than working to cross purposes. You must have
something in common with him, since you married him! Start there.
What's good about him as a person and husband and father? Value that
and let him know you value that and want to support that.

>He has the attitude that kids should shut up, listen to adults,
>only speak when you are spoken to, or dad will take you out behind
>the tool shed and you won't be able to sit for a week.

Its possible that he feels like its "his turn" to be in control, now
that he's the grown up - and is resenting the fact that, since y'all
are unschooling, he's not "getting his turn". So giving him a little
extra love and care and support may help him feel better
about "missing his turn". Maybe he doesn't get to be the bad-guy,
but he gets to hold hands with the princess (as it were).

Look for ways to smooth out relationships between him and the kids
as much as possible, too - more work for you, in the short run, but
anything you can do to help him have a better relationship with the
kids will help the whole family in the longer term. Think in terms
of relationships and family rather than un/schooling per se.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

kel9769

> Anyone else dealing with a noncoperative spouse?
> Harmony
>

I am in practically the same position. My daughters father came
back into our lives about a year ago. He and I are together and
planning to live together and evntually get married and he is 100%
against homeschooling. I have only recently begun to expose him to
the idea of unschooling. He thinks I am completely wrong to put my
relationship with her above her "behaving herself". Part of the
issue is also that I am willing to give him a vote, espeially on
this issue. Even though he is her biological dad I have raised her
alone for 14 years. We both love her and want her to be happy,
healthy and independnet but we have completely different ideas about
how that is going to happen. It is the same with many issues with
us but our daughter is the only thing important enough for us to
argue about. Everything else we happily agree to disagree. He has
agreed to not say a word for a year but then I am worried about what
will happen next. He wants to be satisfied that she is progressing
well enough to have an independent life. She is 14 and is just
starting to transition from de schooling to wanting to do more but
not sure how to go about it. She is discontented and more than a
little whiny as she tries to find her place in the world. I feel
frustrated trying to be supportive of her and having to defend her
to her father. My biggest fear is his forcing her back into school
and her choosing to leave home at 16 to get away from him. I shared
this fear with him and he promised he would not force her to go
back. I have faith in her and I know unschooling is right for her
but I do worry and I am afraid. I know he has so much to offer her
if he could embrace the idea. He works nights and could do stuff
with her during the day while I'm at work. He could teach her how
to build and fix things and all kinds of stuff about nature. I find
it funny that he left high school and got a GED and makes half again
as much money as I do but he is scared for her. He's very "down
with the man" but his daughter should go with the crowd and be in
school. He's never been to college but he feels she won't be able
to be successful there if she can't cope with high school. We are
all working so hard on developing a family. He has agreed to family
counseling and family night once a week. I've agreed to not keep
things from him and to try and not be so defensive. Liz has agreed
to try and be around him more. Sorry this ended up so long and
disjointed. This is something that has been weighing heavily on me
for months. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
Kelly

Vicki Dennis

My opinion is that you need to be careful who you choose for "family
counseling" lest you all be pressured to get her into "normal" school
asap. There are many counselors who adamantly oppose many of the
foundations of thoughtful parenting and/or unschooling.

vicki

On 10/4/07, kel9769 <kel9769@...> wrote:
>
> all working so hard on developing a family. He has agreed to family
> counseling and family night once a week. I've agreed to not keep
>


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Sandra Dodd

-=- > •Cooperation from partner or spouse

-=-Do any of you not have cooperation?
My husband (kids step dad) is absolutely against homeschooling-=-

The clearest analogy I have for unschooling is owning a yacht.

If you want to own a yacht and your spouse doesn't, can you still own a yacht?

I don't think you can unschool if your husband is absolutely against homeschooling.

You can't just "agree to disagree." Unschooling takes the whole family, not just one parent during school hours.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am in practically the same position. My daughters father came
back into our lives about a year ago. He and I are together and
planning to live together and evntually get married and he is 100%
against homeschooling.-=-

I think an intact family is way more important than unschooling.
A broken family can prevent unschooling, too.

http://sandradodd.com/divorce
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/relatives
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum

Those might help. There should be links to other ideas and topics too.

Sandra



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Lisa

>He's never been to college but he feels she won't be able
>to be successful there if she can't cope with high school.
Ever read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki? I finished it
yesterday and was very surprised with the number of references to
school as a machine that grinds out people only fit to work for very
little their whole lives. Kiyosaki says repeatedly that school is a
major factor why most people in the world are 'poor' or middle class
and not rich. It's a book I intend to leave laying out for my husband :).

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Amy

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- > •Cooperation from partner or spouse
>
> -=-Do any of you not have cooperation?
> My husband (kids step dad) is absolutely against homeschooling-=-
>
> The clearest analogy I have for unschooling is owning a yacht.
>
> If you want to own a yacht and your spouse doesn't, can you still
own a yacht?
>
> I don't think you can unschool if your husband is absolutely
against homeschooling.
>
> You can't just "agree to disagree." Unschooling takes the whole
family, not just one parent during school hours.
>
> Sandra


I am really interested in this. Sometimes I feel very fortunate to
be single with a relatively uninvolved Dad who lives 600 miles away.
I get the feeling his side of the family doesn't believe in
homeschooling and I'm sure they would be against unschooling, but no
one is going to challenge me on it. I do believe it's better for my
daughter to be here with me than as an intact family, or of course I
would move back down there. But it is sad that she doesn't know her
Dad very well, and I know she is missing out on some things by not
being around that side of her extended family.
It's only because I am willing to be supported by the state and
because my parents are awesome that I am able to do this. That's
just my view from singlehood.
Why I'm interested in this thread is that I have some good friends (a
married couple) who are "partially unschooling." They don't quite
agree on it and they are only unschooling in certain areas. I feel
like this is much harder on their daughter than how they were
parenting before, except that she does enjoy going home more now that
she can watch tv and have "treats." I guess there is not a lot I can
do, I have recommended this list, reading John Holt, and Sandra's
website. I guess I don't really have a question but I am awfully
frustrated.
Maybe I just want to say if you're single, you can unschool. But if
you're married and can work it out, that's better. I would have been
so crushed if my parents had ever divorced. And if my daughter's
father had wanted to continue our relationship, I would have never
left. And if you happen to have any advice for how to deal with my
friends, I'd love to know!

~amy

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Lisa <lisa@...> wrote:
>
>
> >He's never been to college but he feels she won't be able
> >to be successful there if she can't cope with high school.
> Ever read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki? I finished it
> yesterday and was very surprised with the number of references to
> school as a machine that grinds out people only fit to work for
very
> little their whole lives. Kiyosaki says repeatedly that school is
a
> major factor why most people in the world are 'poor' or middle
class
> and not rich. It's a book I intend to leave laying out for my
husband :).
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Robert Kiyosaki also wrote a book called 'If You Want To Be Rich And
Happy Don't Go To School?', which is more directly critical of the
school system.

There's a good review of the book here:

http://www.educationreformbooks.net/richandhappy.htm