Sunday Cote

A report on national reading and math scores came out today.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20973598/

Sometimes I like to read these reports just to remember how far I've
come and to compare how differently I think now than when I was enmeshed
in that culture. I thought the below quote was very telling and a
little confusing. In comparing the difference in scores for reading and
math, does it really state that "educators" believe that there's minimal
math exposure outside of the classroom!! Yikes. And are they really
saying that because some students get extra exposure to reading in the
home, it's harder to control what they learn?

"The math scores have generally been on a steady upward trajectory
since the early 1990s. Some educators say it's easier for teachers to
affect math scores, because math is almost entirely a school-based
subject while some children get extra exposure to reading in their
homes."
To keep this related to Unschooling, this journey has expanded my
awareness of how learning is going on all the time and how often we are
exposed to math, science, history, reading, and every other subject that
schools have tried to take ownership of. Unschooling has helped me not
put our learning in a box or a certain category. It has helped replace
my fears with confidence that learning is always happening.

I love those shifts in consciousness,
Sunday




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Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 25, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Sunday Cote wrote:

> does it really state that "educators" believe that there's minimal
> math exposure outside of the classroom!!

Like most people they see doing formal math as math. Most kids aren't
doing much 47 + 158 type of math out of class.

Though they *are* doing "Well, I have $25 and the new game is $48.98
at Wal-Mart so I need to wait 3 more weeks of allowance before I can
get the game."

When teachers spend hours and hours doing formal math to make a tiny
bit of progress, the small amount of real math kids do doesn't seem
enough. That's why it's so hard to get across to new unschoolers that
encountering numbers in real contexts will give kids an understanding
of how numbers work. After that, the formal stuff is easy.

Joyce

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Sandra Dodd

-=-And are they really
saying that because some students get extra exposure to reading in the
home, it's harder to control what they learn?

-=-"The math scores have generally been on a steady upward trajectory
since the early 1990s. Some educators say it's easier for teachers to
affect math scores, because math is almost entirely a school-based
subject while some children get extra exposure to reading in their
homes."-=-

I think (but could be wrong) they mean by this: " Some educators say
it's easier for teachers to
affect math scores" that it's easier to prove that changes in school
policies improved math scores.

It probably means they've started teaching to the tests instead of
wasting time (in the view of those analysts) with following
curiosities or letting different teachers teach math in their own
creative ways (if any), but they've successfully changed school to
focus more on test scores than general learning and exploration.

I bet they're very proud of themselves for making school even MORE
narrow and "focussed."

And they think it's focussed on children, no doubt, instead of on
measurable results (i.e. numbers in the form of improvement of scores
on tests over the course of years). The students are raw materials
to create those improvements in numbers.

Sandra



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diana jenner

On 9/25/07, Sunday Cote <sundaycote@...> wrote:
>
> Some educators say it's easier for teachers to
> affect math scores, because math is almost entirely a school-based
> subject
>





*****
And my immediate question is: Why teach math at all, if it's only
school-based and has no application to the outside world??
Probably the greatest frustration to those of us who love the sterile
absolutes of numbers and rarely find real-life math to be so *clean* :D I
just came back into the house after standing outside for a few minutes with
"The Great Book of Math Teasers" (my other books are already packed)-- I've
come to realize that the most of Hayden's number manipulation thrills come
from what *I* consider "story problems" from my math classes. I've
recognized that tightness in my gut and my immediate desire to throw my
hands in the air and wait for someone else to give me the formula so I can
put the numbers in, without consideration for Gramma and her dumplings ;)
I've got lots of healing to do, I want numbers to be as fun for me as they
are for my son!
It's only through unschooling I'm able to do this, in the absence of the
judgment a teacher brings to the equation :)

--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


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Sunday Cote

**When teachers spend hours and hours doing formal math to make a tiny
bit of progress, the small amount of real math kids do doesn't seem
enough. That's why it's so hard to get across to new unschoolers that
encountering numbers in real contexts will give kids an understanding
of how numbers work. After that, the formal stuff is easy.

Joyce**

Yes, that's exactly what I'm seeing unfold in both my children! Thanks
Joyce.

Sandra Dodd

-=-And my immediate question is: Why teach math at all, if it's only
school-based and has no application to the outside world??-=-

And speaking in a teacher voice, with the eyes they used to draw in
Mad Magazine for the clueless twinkie-girls...

"What do you mean 'the outside world'?
School is the real world. School is your job, until you're old
enough to go into the work force. School is as real as it gets. If
you don't get good grades in math, how will you get good grades in
college math? If you don't get good grades in college, how will you
get a good job?"

Yada, yada, yada.

They really can't look at the world without squinting through those
painted-over classroom windows.
I used to be there myself.

Sandra

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jenstarc4

I've got lots of healing to do, I want numbers to be as fun for me as
they
> are for my son!
> It's only through unschooling I'm able to do this, in the absence of
the
> judgment a teacher brings to the equation :)
>
> --
> ~diana :)
> xoxoxoxo
> hannahbearski.blogspot.com

What I've come to realize is that math isn't just numbers either. Math
is conceptual exploration of perspective as well as numbers that can
apply to that. To me, it's better to be able to ask the questions than
to know the answer, or how to write the answer in the form of an
equation.

While I know that there is a symbol for infinity, the concept is much
cooler than knowing the written form of it. Symmetry and spirals and
all of those things can represent the infinite. How to add and
subtract and get a story problem, or "algebra" is the easy day to day
mundane of mathematics.

Robyn L. Coburn

<<< That's why it's so hard to get across to new unschoolers that
> encountering numbers in real contexts will give kids an understanding
> of how numbers work. After that, the formal stuff is easy. >>>

Yes it *seems* counter-intuitive to learn the "theory" after the
understanding of the "practical", yet it seems to work in Unschoolers' real
lives all the time.

I remember in college I and several others took film studies through the
English Department - being Theater majors ourselves. The difference in
approach was an illustration of this same concept. In our department we were
constantly engaged in creating projects - the practical - while any theory
studies we did (which was plenty!) were in order to facilitate our further
development as theater practitioners and artists. Whereas in the English
department practical projects (ie student films) were assigned as aides to
understand the various theories being discussed in class.

I will leave you to guess whose film projects consistently won most kudos,
prizes in the student competitions and, ironically, the best grades in the
English class.

Robyn L. Coburn

Helene McNeill

--Sandra writes:

I think (but could be wrong) they mean by this: " Some educators say
it's easier for teachers to
affect math scores" that it's easier to prove that changes in school
policies improved math scores.

--------------------------

It is really sad for all those children who are the product of this
increasing dishonesty in state education. My sentiments are fully
with Sandra here. Working at Pearson Education part-time (eves) was
such an eye-opener on what happens across the country in school
testing. In many instances, the students were using the exact same
words. For some classes you just see the teacher peeked at the rubric
and wrote it on the board--and still, most of the students were not
concerned enough to copy it correctly (and good for them!) I despise
testing and mostly took the temp job out of curiosity. My kids aren't
in school so I didn't know how it was these days.

When I think about this situation I am both joyous that my family
doesn't buy into that ugly panic-filled life-style, but sad that so
many others in our modern culture have to.

George Carlin, in a recent youtube clip ('who owns America'), says
much the same concerning the archaic educational system we've
developed. We aren't any closer to teaching effectively, we've just
dumbed down everything so it looks that way.

When do think people are going to realize that this mindless approach
to education is potentially harmful for all involved and on many
levels?

Thank goodness for unschooling (and the current freedom we have to
practice it).

Helene



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