Learning Expansiveness
Kelly Shultz
I couldn't figure out which tv email to reply to, so I thought I'd
throw this out there, because it relates to the whole topic, I think.
Many people will refer to a saying about love, and how it expands to
fit the situation. For example, if you have more babies, you just
experience or "create" more love.
It just dawned on me as I was reading through all of the tv thread,
that lots of people look at learning as a zero-sum game, and that
there is a limited amount of learning potential, hence if tv is a
something you spend time on, it must be cutting something else out.
On the contrary, we've found that learning is expansive, like love.
Opening ourselves up to tv has allowed us to learn more, not less,
and it has drawn so much more information into our lives, that the
learning is exponentially increased.
We had to be open to that thought, however, for it to happen. The
learning and engagement never would have happened if we simply
"allowed" television and did not engage and learn ourselves from it
as adults. Interestingly, learning to love tv has translated into a
much greater ability to identify and focus deeply on areas of
interest outside of television. When we became focused on seeing the
learning in something that "seemed" to have no learning involved, we
became more astute at identifying interests and opportunities for
learning everywhere.
Also, I think that there is a sort of "methodology" that seasoned
unschoolers have developed of linking information from one media to
another (i.e., following up on a tv show/movie interest with research
on the web, finding related products or real world events/activities,
books, clippings), that is a pattern of learning and seeking out
information/input, that is an incredibly powerful pattern for young
kids to see and learn. Not to mention, it's incredibly FUN!!!
The more we open up, the more interests flood in, the more
connections there are, the more we put on our to do list, the more we
seek out real world connections to what we've viewed, the more books
we read, etc, etc, etc.
Kelly
throw this out there, because it relates to the whole topic, I think.
Many people will refer to a saying about love, and how it expands to
fit the situation. For example, if you have more babies, you just
experience or "create" more love.
It just dawned on me as I was reading through all of the tv thread,
that lots of people look at learning as a zero-sum game, and that
there is a limited amount of learning potential, hence if tv is a
something you spend time on, it must be cutting something else out.
On the contrary, we've found that learning is expansive, like love.
Opening ourselves up to tv has allowed us to learn more, not less,
and it has drawn so much more information into our lives, that the
learning is exponentially increased.
We had to be open to that thought, however, for it to happen. The
learning and engagement never would have happened if we simply
"allowed" television and did not engage and learn ourselves from it
as adults. Interestingly, learning to love tv has translated into a
much greater ability to identify and focus deeply on areas of
interest outside of television. When we became focused on seeing the
learning in something that "seemed" to have no learning involved, we
became more astute at identifying interests and opportunities for
learning everywhere.
Also, I think that there is a sort of "methodology" that seasoned
unschoolers have developed of linking information from one media to
another (i.e., following up on a tv show/movie interest with research
on the web, finding related products or real world events/activities,
books, clippings), that is a pattern of learning and seeking out
information/input, that is an incredibly powerful pattern for young
kids to see and learn. Not to mention, it's incredibly FUN!!!
The more we open up, the more interests flood in, the more
connections there are, the more we put on our to do list, the more we
seek out real world connections to what we've viewed, the more books
we read, etc, etc, etc.
Kelly
Ryan
-
I totally agree with this assessment. I'd also add that television,
like it or not, is so central to contemporary existence that not
knowing how to "read" television (and filmed things in general) is
roughly equivalent to not being able to read texts. Even if, for
example, I don't watch TV, all of the people around me do. Their
language is influenced by it, their knowledge or lack of knowledge of
the world is mediated by it, their narratives are informed by it, and
their interactions are molded by it. I feel that in order to
understand the world in which they live and the people with whom they
live, my children need to be able to read TV at a very high level.
Watching television together, and watching it suspiciously, is an
excellent way, I've found, to help young people understand the power of
images, the function of propoganda, the way stories get told to benefit
someone other than the person hearing/watching the story.
Ryan
> It just dawned on me as I was reading through all of the tv thread,Kelly
> that lots of people look at learning as a zero-sum game, and that
> there is a limited amount of learning potential, hence if tv is a
> something you spend time on, it must be cutting something else out.
>
> On the contrary, we've found that learning is expansive, like love.
> Opening ourselves up to tv has allowed us to learn more, not less,
> and it has drawn so much more information into our lives, that the
> learning is exponentially increased.
I totally agree with this assessment. I'd also add that television,
like it or not, is so central to contemporary existence that not
knowing how to "read" television (and filmed things in general) is
roughly equivalent to not being able to read texts. Even if, for
example, I don't watch TV, all of the people around me do. Their
language is influenced by it, their knowledge or lack of knowledge of
the world is mediated by it, their narratives are informed by it, and
their interactions are molded by it. I feel that in order to
understand the world in which they live and the people with whom they
live, my children need to be able to read TV at a very high level.
Watching television together, and watching it suspiciously, is an
excellent way, I've found, to help young people understand the power of
images, the function of propoganda, the way stories get told to benefit
someone other than the person hearing/watching the story.
Ryan
Sandra Dodd
Aw, JEEZ, no, Kelly,--you said "methodology."
I loved your whole post. LOVED it expansively. Learned from it
expansively. <g>
I want to put it in a prominent place linked from the TV page and
learning and unschooling. It should be required reading in advance
of anyone joining this group. Yeah. And I want a pre-test, too, so
I can PROVE to people they've learned something from being on this
list (after they take their second and third tests for
comparison!) ***JUST JOKING about the last part.***
-=-Also, I think that there is a sort of "methodology" that seasoned
unschoolers have developed of linking information from one media to
another (i.e., following up on a tv show/movie interest with research
on the web, finding related products or real world events/activities,
books, clippings), that is a pattern of learning and seeking out
information/input, that is an incredibly powerful pattern for young
kids to see and learn. Not to mention, it's incredibly FUN!!!-=-
I don't think it's a methodology that has developed.
I did that all my life. When I was a kid in the Beatlemania days, I
collected all I could about The Beatles, read all I could, had (still
have) the albums. Bought all the 45s (and sold them, with their
paper covers, to a collector around 1980). From and because of that
I was interested in looking into things related to their childhoods
and interests, and so I knew, because I knew John Lennon's birthday,
that London was being bombed then. Big tie-in to WWII. I learned
more about India, though I already knew some, and a few years later
had an Indian boyfriend for four years. I got to meet Ravi Shankar,
through that, and thought "Cool; he met the Beatles!" I think I
could write for days straight about connections I made from my
interest in The Beatles.
So...
I didn't develop that. I let it flow through my life. I flowed
along with it.
If parents can learn to play, to take joy, to be easily amused, to
unleash their curiosity, they will find themselves in a flow that's
always been happening, always been available, but our upbringing and
stodgy friends and relatives and school training and all told us to
turn away from it, not to be distracted, to "grow up."
http://sandradodd.com/playing
That might help.
In http://sandradodd.com/deschooling I wrote
-=-Weird Al says it a different way in “Everything You Know is
Wrong,” and Christians say “You must surrender yourself.” Before that
Jesus said, “Unless you become as a little child…”
-=-What it means in homeschooling terms is that as long as you think
you can control and add to what you already know, it will be hard to
come to unschooling. The more quickly you empty your cup and open
yourself to new ideas uncritically, the sooner you will see natural
learning blossom.-=-
When that was translated into French, the translator left out the
part about Jesus. She said in France, references to Jesus like that,
outside of church, are very unpopular. I've kept that in mind and a
couple of times have noticed it in movies or writings about France.
They DO have a different take on it, and since the revolution at
least (maybe longer).
Let your thoughts and your actions flow.
Sandra
I loved your whole post. LOVED it expansively. Learned from it
expansively. <g>
I want to put it in a prominent place linked from the TV page and
learning and unschooling. It should be required reading in advance
of anyone joining this group. Yeah. And I want a pre-test, too, so
I can PROVE to people they've learned something from being on this
list (after they take their second and third tests for
comparison!) ***JUST JOKING about the last part.***
-=-Also, I think that there is a sort of "methodology" that seasoned
unschoolers have developed of linking information from one media to
another (i.e., following up on a tv show/movie interest with research
on the web, finding related products or real world events/activities,
books, clippings), that is a pattern of learning and seeking out
information/input, that is an incredibly powerful pattern for young
kids to see and learn. Not to mention, it's incredibly FUN!!!-=-
I don't think it's a methodology that has developed.
I did that all my life. When I was a kid in the Beatlemania days, I
collected all I could about The Beatles, read all I could, had (still
have) the albums. Bought all the 45s (and sold them, with their
paper covers, to a collector around 1980). From and because of that
I was interested in looking into things related to their childhoods
and interests, and so I knew, because I knew John Lennon's birthday,
that London was being bombed then. Big tie-in to WWII. I learned
more about India, though I already knew some, and a few years later
had an Indian boyfriend for four years. I got to meet Ravi Shankar,
through that, and thought "Cool; he met the Beatles!" I think I
could write for days straight about connections I made from my
interest in The Beatles.
So...
I didn't develop that. I let it flow through my life. I flowed
along with it.
If parents can learn to play, to take joy, to be easily amused, to
unleash their curiosity, they will find themselves in a flow that's
always been happening, always been available, but our upbringing and
stodgy friends and relatives and school training and all told us to
turn away from it, not to be distracted, to "grow up."
http://sandradodd.com/playing
That might help.
In http://sandradodd.com/deschooling I wrote
-=-Weird Al says it a different way in “Everything You Know is
Wrong,” and Christians say “You must surrender yourself.” Before that
Jesus said, “Unless you become as a little child…”
-=-What it means in homeschooling terms is that as long as you think
you can control and add to what you already know, it will be hard to
come to unschooling. The more quickly you empty your cup and open
yourself to new ideas uncritically, the sooner you will see natural
learning blossom.-=-
When that was translated into French, the translator left out the
part about Jesus. She said in France, references to Jesus like that,
outside of church, are very unpopular. I've kept that in mind and a
couple of times have noticed it in movies or writings about France.
They DO have a different take on it, and since the revolution at
least (maybe longer).
Let your thoughts and your actions flow.
Sandra
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 21, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Vegas. It ain't cheap, but it's so worth the money.
I was thinking, too, about how my family watches TV and movies. We
pause and run off to check things on IMDB or MemoryAlpha (the Star Trek
wiki) or TV.com all the time. We weave threads from all kinds of
sources; we watch connectedly :-)
Nancy
> When I was a kid in the Beatlemania days, IYou should definitely see "Love," the Cirque du Soleil show in Las
> collected all I could about The Beatles, read all I could, had (still
> have) the albums. Bought all the 45s (and sold them, with their
> paper covers, to a collector around 1980). From and because of that
> I was interested in looking into things related to their childhoods
> and interests, and so I knew, because I knew John Lennon's birthday,
> that London was being bombed then. Big tie-in to WWII. I learned
> more about India, though I already knew some, and a few years later
> had an Indian boyfriend for four years. I got to meet Ravi Shankar,
> through that, and thought "Cool; he met the Beatles!" I think I
> could write for days straight about connections I made from my
> interest in The Beatles.
Vegas. It ain't cheap, but it's so worth the money.
I was thinking, too, about how my family watches TV and movies. We
pause and run off to check things on IMDB or MemoryAlpha (the Star Trek
wiki) or TV.com all the time. We weave threads from all kinds of
sources; we watch connectedly :-)
Nancy
Kelli Traaseth
***I was thinking, too, about how my family watches TV and movies. We
pause and run off to check things on IMDB or MemoryAlpha (the Star Trek
wiki) or TV.com all the time. We weave threads from all kinds of
sources; we watch connectedly :-)****
That's how we watch too... and listen to music and it's just what we do. We connect, connect, connect. I think it's what human's brains do, if allowed ;)
Just earlier this morning Abbi (soon to be 13) was working on the laptop and she had her new playlist going from her blog. Bruce Springsteen's Dancing in the Dark came up and Courtney Cox's image came to my mind. <g> After the song was done, we got Youtube up and found his live performance with her debut dance in it. Pretty fun. That's just a beginning or maybe a middle of connections, Abbi knew Cox from Adam Sandler's Longest Yard and we had connections from that movie to the old Longest Yard to Burt Reynolds (who was in both).
Just recently we were on a connections ride which actually led to a touch on to the Riot Act that Sandra mentioned and continued to the French Impressionists and French History. It all came from us liking (OK, obsessing over ;) Richard Armitage, the Britsh actor.
It all started when I thought I'd try a new series I heard of from Netflix. It's BBC's Robin Hood 2006. We've liked other Robin Hood's and heard this one was fun. Well, we loved it and ended up buying the first season. Abbi really liked Richard Armitage in it and wondered if there was anything else with him in. She and I both looked on Netflix, IMDB and found BBC's North and South. We were happy to see that we could watch it immediately from Netflix. If you didn't know, Netflix now has an option to watch some shows right on your computer, immediate downloads, and it's in addition to your monthly ones.
So.. we got 'North and South' which told the story of a woman going from a countryside life to a town life and it touches on the industrial changes in 19th century England. Well, we still weren't done with wanting more of Mr. Armitage, so we also put 'The Impressionists' on the queue and watched it when it arrived. That was also a great show.
So we started with Robin Hood, continued to 19th century England and ended.. for now (although it's never really ended because the connections will continue) with the impressionists artists.
Very cool.
I wrote a little bit about it here: http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/2007/08/obsessive-learning.html
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." ~Anais Nin
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pause and run off to check things on IMDB or MemoryAlpha (the Star Trek
wiki) or TV.com all the time. We weave threads from all kinds of
sources; we watch connectedly :-)****
That's how we watch too... and listen to music and it's just what we do. We connect, connect, connect. I think it's what human's brains do, if allowed ;)
Just earlier this morning Abbi (soon to be 13) was working on the laptop and she had her new playlist going from her blog. Bruce Springsteen's Dancing in the Dark came up and Courtney Cox's image came to my mind. <g> After the song was done, we got Youtube up and found his live performance with her debut dance in it. Pretty fun. That's just a beginning or maybe a middle of connections, Abbi knew Cox from Adam Sandler's Longest Yard and we had connections from that movie to the old Longest Yard to Burt Reynolds (who was in both).
Just recently we were on a connections ride which actually led to a touch on to the Riot Act that Sandra mentioned and continued to the French Impressionists and French History. It all came from us liking (OK, obsessing over ;) Richard Armitage, the Britsh actor.
It all started when I thought I'd try a new series I heard of from Netflix. It's BBC's Robin Hood 2006. We've liked other Robin Hood's and heard this one was fun. Well, we loved it and ended up buying the first season. Abbi really liked Richard Armitage in it and wondered if there was anything else with him in. She and I both looked on Netflix, IMDB and found BBC's North and South. We were happy to see that we could watch it immediately from Netflix. If you didn't know, Netflix now has an option to watch some shows right on your computer, immediate downloads, and it's in addition to your monthly ones.
So.. we got 'North and South' which told the story of a woman going from a countryside life to a town life and it touches on the industrial changes in 19th century England. Well, we still weren't done with wanting more of Mr. Armitage, so we also put 'The Impressionists' on the queue and watched it when it arrived. That was also a great show.
So we started with Robin Hood, continued to 19th century England and ended.. for now (although it's never really ended because the connections will continue) with the impressionists artists.
Very cool.
I wrote a little bit about it here: http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/2007/08/obsessive-learning.html
Kelli~
http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." ~Anais Nin
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon Rizzo
Nancy wrote:
discovered Elvis. My mom and I are already crazy about Elvis, and now all
four of our kids are, especially the girls. We have been in an intense
Elvis phase for probably the last year, all Elvis all the time in the car.
We listen to the Elvis Quiz Show on Fridays and the kids try to guess the
song snippets. They've decided they want to go be on the Elvis Quiz Show.
We've used our TiVo to search and record Elvis movies and documentaries and
they've learned all about his life. We listen to George Klein interview
various Elvis friends, and get to see glimpses into the lives of these other
people. They have listened many times to the Million Dollar Quartet sing
and sometimes point out one of the other singers when he hear one of their
songs.
It has given them an extra connection to their grandma, who lives in Little
Rock and has begun making treks to Graceland for trinkets for them and who
gave them her much prized ticket stub from an Elvis concert. When we go to
Little Rock for Thanksgiving, we will surely go to Graceland for a tour.
It's connected them with a family friend, who actually used to live behind
Graceland when Elvis first moved there. (And amazingly she didn't throw
herself over the back fence to borrow sugar!)
This summer, my daughter and son had a shared birthday party (their
birthdays are two days apart and they chose to share a party) and the party
was an Elvis party. I wrote Argo from the Elvis radio channel to see if he
could email them a happy birthday, and he wrote back that he'd rather call
and wish them happy birthday! Even better, their party happened to be on
the day when the Elvis channel was celebrating three years on air and was
having a special quiz show. Since we'd planned to have our own Elvis quiz
show, we just put the radio's quiz show on for the party, and the DJs called
out to our two birthday kids, saying "Isabella and Jake love Elvis and are
having an Elvis party right now while we're having one." It was so
exciting. And all of our friends have enjoyed being on the periphery of the
Elvis craze. Some have brought their Elvis movies out of their boxes and
loaned them to the girls or watched them with the kids. This Halloween all
four kids want to dress "Elvis." My older son wants to be Elvis as a
soldier. My daughter wants to be Priscilla, and the other two want to be
other versions of Elvis.
They also love spotting other Elvis influences on TV - in Lilo and Stitch,
on the Dollywood commercial. One kid saw a commercial for wheeled sneakers
and commented that his song "Wheels on my Heels" would have been a good song
for the commercial. We've enjoyed browsing YouTube and listening to Lisa
Marie sing a duet "Don't Cry Daddy" with Elvis (obviously digitally blended
into his song).
There have been so many fun blendings of all of these different sources and
Kelly is right, it is definitley an expansive and wonderful experience.
Shannon
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007
11:53 AM
>> I was thinking, too, about how my family watches TV and movies. WeTrek
>> pause and run off to check things on IMDB or MemoryAlpha (the Star
>> wiki) or TV.com all the time. We weave threads from all kinds ofYes, that's us too! For example, when we got our satellite radio, the kids
>> sources; we watch connectedly :-)
discovered Elvis. My mom and I are already crazy about Elvis, and now all
four of our kids are, especially the girls. We have been in an intense
Elvis phase for probably the last year, all Elvis all the time in the car.
We listen to the Elvis Quiz Show on Fridays and the kids try to guess the
song snippets. They've decided they want to go be on the Elvis Quiz Show.
We've used our TiVo to search and record Elvis movies and documentaries and
they've learned all about his life. We listen to George Klein interview
various Elvis friends, and get to see glimpses into the lives of these other
people. They have listened many times to the Million Dollar Quartet sing
and sometimes point out one of the other singers when he hear one of their
songs.
It has given them an extra connection to their grandma, who lives in Little
Rock and has begun making treks to Graceland for trinkets for them and who
gave them her much prized ticket stub from an Elvis concert. When we go to
Little Rock for Thanksgiving, we will surely go to Graceland for a tour.
It's connected them with a family friend, who actually used to live behind
Graceland when Elvis first moved there. (And amazingly she didn't throw
herself over the back fence to borrow sugar!)
This summer, my daughter and son had a shared birthday party (their
birthdays are two days apart and they chose to share a party) and the party
was an Elvis party. I wrote Argo from the Elvis radio channel to see if he
could email them a happy birthday, and he wrote back that he'd rather call
and wish them happy birthday! Even better, their party happened to be on
the day when the Elvis channel was celebrating three years on air and was
having a special quiz show. Since we'd planned to have our own Elvis quiz
show, we just put the radio's quiz show on for the party, and the DJs called
out to our two birthday kids, saying "Isabella and Jake love Elvis and are
having an Elvis party right now while we're having one." It was so
exciting. And all of our friends have enjoyed being on the periphery of the
Elvis craze. Some have brought their Elvis movies out of their boxes and
loaned them to the girls or watched them with the kids. This Halloween all
four kids want to dress "Elvis." My older son wants to be Elvis as a
soldier. My daughter wants to be Priscilla, and the other two want to be
other versions of Elvis.
They also love spotting other Elvis influences on TV - in Lilo and Stitch,
on the Dollywood commercial. One kid saw a commercial for wheeled sneakers
and commented that his song "Wheels on my Heels" would have been a good song
for the commercial. We've enjoyed browsing YouTube and listening to Lisa
Marie sing a duet "Don't Cry Daddy" with Elvis (obviously digitally blended
into his song).
There have been so many fun blendings of all of these different sources and
Kelly is right, it is definitley an expansive and wonderful experience.
Shannon
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007
11:53 AM
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 21, 2007, at 7:59 AM, Ryan wrote:
working well together.
Too much gullibility isn't great, either, but "suspicious" goes too
far the other way. How about "realistic?"
And, every product sold is being sold for the benefit of the seller -
to earn a profit, that's how our economy works. The profit motive is
the incentive for providing what the buyers want (or the viewers).
How about just thinking about motives and incentives and responses
and stuff like that without that negative layer of suspicion?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Watching television together, and watching it suspiciously, is anThat seems overstated - I don't see "joyful" and "suspicious" as
> excellent way, I've found, to help young people understand the
> power of
> images, the function of propoganda, the way stories get told to
> benefit
> someone other than the person hearing/watching the story.
working well together.
Too much gullibility isn't great, either, but "suspicious" goes too
far the other way. How about "realistic?"
And, every product sold is being sold for the benefit of the seller -
to earn a profit, that's how our economy works. The profit motive is
the incentive for providing what the buyers want (or the viewers).
How about just thinking about motives and incentives and responses
and stuff like that without that negative layer of suspicion?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Nancy Wooton <nancywooton@...>
wrote:
Canberra a few months ago. It was out of this world. Stunning.
Awesome. Can't think of the superlatives to describe it! Totally
glorious!
wrote:
>I went with my family to the Cirque du Soleil show "Vareki" here in
>
>>
> You should definitely see "Love," the Cirque du Soleil show in Las
> Vegas. It ain't cheap, but it's so worth the money.
>
>
Canberra a few months ago. It was out of this world. Stunning.
Awesome. Can't think of the superlatives to describe it! Totally
glorious!
Sandra Dodd
http://sandradodd.com/activeunschooling
This is a link to something Amy Carpenter wrote about active
learning. It starts off this way:
A mom wrote:
== He watched South Park, listens to music on his ipod, plays video
games on his xbox but has NO INTEREST in learning even the basics.==
==They seem to want passive stimulation.==
Amy Carpenter responded:
Seeing TV and video games as passive stimulation is becoming a very
foreign concept to me.
My husband majored in Communication Arts and Sciences, with a focus
on Video Production when he was an undergrad. From our early days
together, he was always pointing out *how* TV shows and movies were
made�how the perspective was framed, how the editing decisions worked
with the overarching philosophy, as well as "how did they get that
shot?" questions. That's part of our everyday conversation when my
family watches TV together.
As a writer, I'm always looking at the story behind the story as
well....
http://sandradodd.com/activeunschooling
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is a link to something Amy Carpenter wrote about active
learning. It starts off this way:
A mom wrote:
== He watched South Park, listens to music on his ipod, plays video
games on his xbox but has NO INTEREST in learning even the basics.==
==They seem to want passive stimulation.==
Amy Carpenter responded:
Seeing TV and video games as passive stimulation is becoming a very
foreign concept to me.
My husband majored in Communication Arts and Sciences, with a focus
on Video Production when he was an undergrad. From our early days
together, he was always pointing out *how* TV shows and movies were
made�how the perspective was framed, how the editing decisions worked
with the overarching philosophy, as well as "how did they get that
shot?" questions. That's part of our everyday conversation when my
family watches TV together.
As a writer, I'm always looking at the story behind the story as
well....
http://sandradodd.com/activeunschooling
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
riasplace3
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
working on making movies, and studying the ways special effects were
done...it's really a different experience for my kids to watch a
movie than it was for me as a child. I was scared of the wicked
witch on the Wizard of Oz, and would pull my feet up off the floor,
because I was scared to think of the open space under the couch. They
talk about the ways the effects were done, and whether they were done
well or not. One of our most used lines right now is "Why did they
DO that?" "It's in the script!" (Totally kills the "movie magic"
thing, though. When you KNOW Superman is standing on a board in
front of a blue screen, it makes it look different. LOL)
: )
Ria
> on Video Production when he was an undergrad. From our early dayswere
> together, he was always pointing out *how* TV shows and movies
> madehow the perspective was framed, how the editing decisionsworked
> with the overarching philosophy, as well as "how did they get thatThat's what it's like watching tv/movies with my DH, too. He's
> shot?" questions.
working on making movies, and studying the ways special effects were
done...it's really a different experience for my kids to watch a
movie than it was for me as a child. I was scared of the wicked
witch on the Wizard of Oz, and would pull my feet up off the floor,
because I was scared to think of the open space under the couch. They
talk about the ways the effects were done, and whether they were done
well or not. One of our most used lines right now is "Why did they
DO that?" "It's in the script!" (Totally kills the "movie magic"
thing, though. When you KNOW Superman is standing on a board in
front of a blue screen, it makes it look different. LOL)
: )
Ria
Kelly Shultz
Oh gosh, yes, I could have used a different word, for example "style"
or "approach," even "flair" or some other better word that I can't
think of now. I realize that it's not a methodology that has
developed, but maybe it's a pattern that home learners are more
likely to fall into?
Maybe lots of other unschoolers have come with this kind of wiring,
but it was not really part of my style, so a lot of it has been
learned and positive reinforcement for me. As a child, I can't
recall a situation of being totally into something and learning about
it in such a deep way. I was more likely to read one of my favorite
books over again, or listen to my favorite album for the 900th time.
As a young adult, I was more likely to dabble in things too, which
might be just a style sort of thing. Work was probably the first
place where I learned more about getting into something in really
great depth. (Funny, years of school did not create that incentive
for me, but my work did.)
Now we can be dabblers AND deep learners in our home, which is so
cool : )
One last thing which I feel is important to communicate. We did not
love tv from the beginning. Although I absolutely adored film, and
spent much of my 20's in old Chicago movie-houses watching
independent films, we definitely came from the "it's a tool to be
managed" mindset as parents, and could have easily gone down the path
of increasingly limiting shows/time, etc (funny, in hindsight, that I
might have wanted to restrict something that my kids would naturally
be drawn to). I think it has been helpful for me to see the cases
where people have gone from one mindset to another, and I'd be happy
to post more details on our experience if people are interested.
Actually we've done that in almost every area. Not that we were
evilly restrictive parents, but we didn't necessarily question
traditional parenting choices in the beginning. I think that's so
critical to say, because it's easy for me to shout "I LOVE TV" from
the mountaintops now, but it might be helpful for others earlier (or
even later) on the path to know that not every really happy convinced
unschooler starts out that way, and it really is possible to go
through dramatic change in your thinking.
Kelly
or "approach," even "flair" or some other better word that I can't
think of now. I realize that it's not a methodology that has
developed, but maybe it's a pattern that home learners are more
likely to fall into?
Maybe lots of other unschoolers have come with this kind of wiring,
but it was not really part of my style, so a lot of it has been
learned and positive reinforcement for me. As a child, I can't
recall a situation of being totally into something and learning about
it in such a deep way. I was more likely to read one of my favorite
books over again, or listen to my favorite album for the 900th time.
As a young adult, I was more likely to dabble in things too, which
might be just a style sort of thing. Work was probably the first
place where I learned more about getting into something in really
great depth. (Funny, years of school did not create that incentive
for me, but my work did.)
Now we can be dabblers AND deep learners in our home, which is so
cool : )
One last thing which I feel is important to communicate. We did not
love tv from the beginning. Although I absolutely adored film, and
spent much of my 20's in old Chicago movie-houses watching
independent films, we definitely came from the "it's a tool to be
managed" mindset as parents, and could have easily gone down the path
of increasingly limiting shows/time, etc (funny, in hindsight, that I
might have wanted to restrict something that my kids would naturally
be drawn to). I think it has been helpful for me to see the cases
where people have gone from one mindset to another, and I'd be happy
to post more details on our experience if people are interested.
Actually we've done that in almost every area. Not that we were
evilly restrictive parents, but we didn't necessarily question
traditional parenting choices in the beginning. I think that's so
critical to say, because it's easy for me to shout "I LOVE TV" from
the mountaintops now, but it might be helpful for others earlier (or
even later) on the path to know that not every really happy convinced
unschooler starts out that way, and it really is possible to go
through dramatic change in your thinking.
Kelly
On Sep 21, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> Aw, JEEZ, no, Kelly,--you said "methodology."
>
> I loved your whole post. LOVED it expansively. Learned from it
> expansively. <g>
>
> I want to put it in a prominent place linked from the TV page and
> learning and unschooling. It should be required reading in advance
> of anyone joining this group. Yeah. And I want a pre-test, too, so
> I can PROVE to people they've learned something from being on this
> list (after they take their second and third tests for
> comparison!) ***JUST JOKING about the last part.***
>
>
> -=-Also, I think that there is a sort of "methodology" that seasoned
> unschoolers have developed of linking information from one media to
> another (i.e., following up on a tv show/movie interest with research
> on the web, finding related products or real world events/activities,
> books, clippings), that is a pattern of learning and seeking out
> information/input, that is an incredibly powerful pattern for young
> kids to see and learn. Not to mention, it's incredibly FUN!!!-=-
>
> I don't think it's a methodology that has developed.
> I did that all my life. When I was a kid in the Beatlemania days, I
> collected all I could about The Beatles, read all I could, had (still
> have) the albums. Bought all the 45s (and sold them, with their
> paper covers, to a collector around 1980). From and because of that
> I was interested in looking into things related to their childhoods
> and interests, and so I knew, because I knew John Lennon's birthday,
> that London was being bombed then. Big tie-in to WWII. I learned
> more about India, though I already knew some, and a few years later
> had an Indian boyfriend for four years. I got to meet Ravi Shankar,
> through that, and thought "Cool; he met the Beatles!" I think I
> could write for days straight about connections I made from my
> interest in The Beatles.
>
> So...
> I didn't develop that. I let it flow through my life. I flowed
> along with it.
>
> If parents can learn to play, to take joy, to be easily amused, to
> unleash their curiosity, they will find themselves in a flow that's
> always been happening, always been available, but our upbringing and
> stodgy friends and relatives and school training and all told us to
> turn away from it, not to be distracted, to "grow up."
>
> http://sandradodd.com/playing
> That might help.
>
> In http://sandradodd.com/deschooling I wrote
>
> -=-Weird Al says it a different way in “Everything You Know is
> Wrong,” and Christians say “You must surrender yourself.” Before that
> Jesus said, “Unless you become as a little child…”
>
> -=-What it means in homeschooling terms is that as long as you think
> you can control and add to what you already know, it will be hard to
> come to unschooling. The more quickly you empty your cup and open
> yourself to new ideas uncritically, the sooner you will see natural
> learning blossom.-=-
>
>
>
> When that was translated into French, the translator left out the
> part about Jesus. She said in France, references to Jesus like that,
> outside of church, are very unpopular. I've kept that in mind and a
> couple of times have noticed it in movies or writings about France.
> They DO have a different take on it, and since the revolution at
> least (maybe longer).
>
> Let your thoughts and your actions flow.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
I don't really know all the history and cause of restrictions. I
don't guess anyone does, but I figured we could share what we do know
and brainstorm some.
-=- (funny, in hindsight, that I
might have wanted to restrict something that my kids would naturally
be drawn to)-=-
This made me think of a few things. One is the saying from the
hippie 60's, "If it feels good, do it."
No one would have had reason to say or think any such thing if they
weren't emerging from a culture that clearly said "If it feels good,
it's a sin." And they said:
"If it tastes bad, it must be good for you."
"Work isn't supposed to fun."
It also made me think of the claim (never said in a sympathetic way,
but when I've heard it it's always had that sharp tone of
disapproval) that people "crave" what they're allergic to.
I think there have been millions of parents (and teachers and public
officials) who have seen someone's eyes light up, and they step in to
separate them by any means from that thing that lit them up. I think
there still are some. Millions, still. I saw it a lot when I was
young, in the 50's, and heard the bad tone with which it was discussed.
Sometimes it looks like jealousy.
Sometimes in the past it has been justified as saving their souls,
keeping them from sin.
Sandra
don't guess anyone does, but I figured we could share what we do know
and brainstorm some.
-=- (funny, in hindsight, that I
might have wanted to restrict something that my kids would naturally
be drawn to)-=-
This made me think of a few things. One is the saying from the
hippie 60's, "If it feels good, do it."
No one would have had reason to say or think any such thing if they
weren't emerging from a culture that clearly said "If it feels good,
it's a sin." And they said:
"If it tastes bad, it must be good for you."
"Work isn't supposed to fun."
It also made me think of the claim (never said in a sympathetic way,
but when I've heard it it's always had that sharp tone of
disapproval) that people "crave" what they're allergic to.
I think there have been millions of parents (and teachers and public
officials) who have seen someone's eyes light up, and they step in to
separate them by any means from that thing that lit them up. I think
there still are some. Millions, still. I saw it a lot when I was
young, in the 50's, and heard the bad tone with which it was discussed.
Sometimes it looks like jealousy.
Sometimes in the past it has been justified as saving their souls,
keeping them from sin.
Sandra
Shannon Rizzo
I mentioned a couple of months ago about our weaving various tangents of
Elvis interests, thanks to my girls' year-long fascination with him, and
that I was taking them to visit Graceland in November to be on the Elvis
Quiz Show. Well, the girls won! (We played as a 3-generational team of
grandma, me, the girls, but every answer my mom and I contributed was wrong
so the win was purely thanks to the girls.) They beat two other teams of
adults and got to be guest DJs, which entailed being interviewed and getting
to determine the play list for that period. The most thrilling moment for me
was when the DJ was asking them about homeschooling. He asked "who teaches
you, your mom?" and they said "No we teach ourselves." He was surprised and
made some really positive comments about how neat that must be. We had such
a fun time - I got us rooms at the Heartbreak Hotel and took them to supper
at the Rock n Roll Café. They got to meet George Klein, Elvis's high school
friend and former member of the Memphis Mafia, and the kids got to see an
evening Elvis impersonator show, which was a blast. They have come away with
even more tangents and some amazing memories.
Big Jim Sykes, the DJ, gave us a CD copy of the quiz show and guest DJ spot
and once I check to see if we have permission to upload it, I will provide a
link in case anyone wants that unschooling comment and reaction.
Shannon
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1164 - Release Date: 12/2/2007
11:30 AM
Elvis interests, thanks to my girls' year-long fascination with him, and
that I was taking them to visit Graceland in November to be on the Elvis
Quiz Show. Well, the girls won! (We played as a 3-generational team of
grandma, me, the girls, but every answer my mom and I contributed was wrong
so the win was purely thanks to the girls.) They beat two other teams of
adults and got to be guest DJs, which entailed being interviewed and getting
to determine the play list for that period. The most thrilling moment for me
was when the DJ was asking them about homeschooling. He asked "who teaches
you, your mom?" and they said "No we teach ourselves." He was surprised and
made some really positive comments about how neat that must be. We had such
a fun time - I got us rooms at the Heartbreak Hotel and took them to supper
at the Rock n Roll Café. They got to meet George Klein, Elvis's high school
friend and former member of the Memphis Mafia, and the kids got to see an
evening Elvis impersonator show, which was a blast. They have come away with
even more tangents and some amazing memories.
Big Jim Sykes, the DJ, gave us a CD copy of the quiz show and guest DJ spot
and once I check to see if we have permission to upload it, I will provide a
link in case anyone wants that unschooling comment and reaction.
Shannon
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1164 - Release Date: 12/2/2007
11:30 AM