kacsshultz

I sent a post to a different list a while ago, but haven't gotten any
responses, so I would appreciate thoughts from this list.

My daughters have developed a friendship that is great, but poses a
few mental challenges for me, so I am working to find ideas that will
allow everyone to be comfortable.

The little girl is 5, and prefers to play in her home (an apartment
downstairs from us in our condo building). She is very "protective"
of her toys and does not wish to have our son participate in the
playdates. My daughters also enjoy the opportunity to go and play
somewhere new, and to have some time without their brother, so they
really really look forward to these play dates. The little girl also
has a nice bedroom, lots of different kinds of toys, and the three
girls genuinely get along really well and are very sweet with each
other, looking for gifts for each other, thinking about each other
and what they like etc. The mom is nice, and they have been coming
upstairs to our place somewhat regularly too, so we've been getting
to know each other better, and she is a reasonably gentle mom,
although her daughter will go to school, etc. They are committed to
staying in our building, and because the girls really like each
other, she seems committed to helping their friendship grow. It is
also helpful to the mom for the girls to play down at her place,
because she works from home, and a part of the playdate usually
occurs when she is trying to get a few last things done and could use
the distraction for her daughter.

Here are the parts that are challenging for me. I am not used to
being separate from my daughters. Up until now, they have always
wanted me right there for any activity, from playdates to parties to
classes. They are playing downstairs 1-2/week for several hours.

There have been several times where the mom has taken the girls out
for dinner in our neighborhood (walking distance), and my husband has
not been available to accompany them, so I've let them go with the
mom. I truly believe that the mom is trying to "do me a favor" by
getting the girls out for dinner, and giving me some down time. What
she doesn't know is that I really enjoy being with my kids as much as
possible, and would rather we not be separated from them. My post to
the other list was triggered by the fact that they were going to take
the kids out to dinner, but were going to drive somewhere. There
ended up not being enough booster seats, so the dinner became a
walking dinner. She thought that the only issue was the car seats.
Frankly, after my husband and I discussed it, we are not sure we even
want anyone else driving our kids around the city without us in the
car.

The father is also part of the challenge. We have known him casually
for about 10 years, and are getting to know him better, but still not
someone we would call best buds. He can be really sweet, is very
protective of his daughter, and very cautious and safety-oriented.
On the other hand, he is also a fairly hot-tempered, foul language
using Chicago policeman, and he wears a gun regularly, and there are
guns in a locked cabinet at home. It is my understanding that it is
ALWAYS locked, and this guy is almost zealotous in his safety
orientation, so I believe that for the most part.

The relationship with my son is challenging to me. The girls love
their little friend, but it can be hard on my son sometimes to not be
welcome in their home. Historically I have taken the approach of
staying with him, because he is very attached, and the girls seem
comfortable. I do have the opportunity to have our helper stay with
our son, but I think that he would be very upset about me going down
with the girls and him staying upstairs. That is just not the usual
mo for him - he is always with me, unless I am going to a doctor's
appointment.

I am finding it so complex, because it is what my daughters want and
they feel utterly comfortable with the situation, so I do not want to
make them upset about imposing requirements (or create an
unnecessarily fearful scenario for them by sharing all of my
concerns). On the other hand, I want to make sure that I feel
comfortable, and currently, I do not always feel comfortable at all
times, particularly if I know that the father has been home and my
girls are there.

It is one of those situations where it is probably truly a 0%
likelihood that anything bad will ever happen, but I am just trying
to do the job of looking out for risk for my children, and this
situation has red flags in it for me.

I feel like there is the need for more communication and possibly
some limit setting, but I want to do it very carefully, with all
parties, obviously. That means I need to think a lot and could use
some input and examples of more experienced parents.

It is difficult for me to ask other parents where we live, because I
think we have been outside of the norm, given the girls request that
we always be there. I believe it is common for kids to have dropoff
playdates and birthday parties at much younger ages. They were doing
it at age 4, when our daughter attended preschool for 1 year.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Kelly

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am finding it so complex, because it is what my daughters want and
they feel utterly comfortable with the situation, so I do not want to
make them upset about imposing requirements (or create an
unnecessarily fearful scenario for them by sharing all of my
concerns). On the other hand, I want to make sure that I feel
comfortable, and currently, I do not always feel comfortable at all
times-=-

I would let the girls decide.

Maybe make a big deal about doing something special with your son, so
he doesn't feel left out, and he will have done something the girls
are a little envious of. Take advantage of the chance to do
something that would be too expensive with four, but affordable with
two, maybe. That's what I used to do when one child was left out.
We'd go do something. It distracted both of us.

My comfort needs to be secondary to my kids' comfort, the way I look
at it.

-=-It is difficult for me to ask other parents where we live, because I
think we have been outside of the norm, given the girls request that
we always be there. I believe it is common for kids to have dropoff
playdates and birthday parties at much younger ages. They were doing
it at age 4, when our daughter attended preschool for 1 year.-=-

I don't think you should get a sitter for your son to go with the girls.

When I invite a kid over to play, it doesn't mean I want the mom over
too. It's more work to have another adult over than to just add a
kid to the mix I already have (had; mine are not little now, but they
were!).

Can the kids call if they get uncomfortable so you could go and get
them, or so they could talk to you? If so, and if they know you're
at the other end of the phone, that seems a good measure.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], "kacsshultz" <kashultz@...>
wrote:
>
> I sent a post to a different list a while ago, but haven't gotten
any
> responses, so I would appreciate thoughts from this list.
>
> My daughters have developed a friendship that is great, but poses
a
> few mental challenges for me, so I am working to find ideas that
will
> allow everyone to be comfortable.
>

Sorry I am on the other list and planned on replying to your post
but things got crazy around here. i think you may have been lost
inthe shuffle of e-mails.That being said I am glad you are posting
here anyway.



> Here are the parts that are challenging for me. I am not used to
> being separate from my daughters. Up until now, they have always
> wanted me right there for any activity, from playdates to parties
to
> classes. They are playing downstairs 1-2/week for several hours.
>
> There have been several times where the mom has taken the girls
out
> for dinner in our neighborhood (walking distance), and my husband
has
> not been available to accompany them, so I've let them go with the
> mom. I truly believe that the mom is trying to "do me a favor" by
> getting the girls out for dinner, and giving me some down time.
What
> she doesn't know is that I really enjoy being with my kids as much
as
> possible, and would rather we not be separated from them. My post
to
> the other list was triggered by the fact that they were going to
take
> the kids out to dinner, but were going to drive somewhere. There
> ended up not being enough booster seats, so the dinner became a
> walking dinner. She thought that the only issue was the car
seats.
> Frankly, after my husband and I discussed it, we are not sure we
even
> want anyone else driving our kids around the city without us in
the
> car.
>

Perhaps you should address this first in your own mind and then with
others. Looking at this at first glance it seems reasonable since
you never know what could happen but at the same time there will
come a time when they *will* be with other people out in the world.

Its like he parents who do not want their kids talking to the
opposite sex because it might lead to something but they forget that
kids need interaction so they can relate to being around others. For
a boy they need to be around boys so they get to know them so that
when dating happens they are not so sheltered that they get into
trouble.

I hear the fear from you that you are scraed when they are not with
you BUT you have to let that go a little and then a little more.
Trust them and teach them to trust themselves- my daughter is 4 and
do not go anywhere without me but recently she met a girl who is 8
and they want to go play together. I let them outside without me
because this girl is older and very motherly and they have to stay
within range of my sight out the door. It is scary to let your kids
go but do not protect so much at they can not learn or try out their
own skills.




> The father is also part of the challenge. We have known him
casually
> for about 10 years, and are getting to know him better, but still
not
> someone we would call best buds. He can be really sweet, is very
> protective of his daughter, and very cautious and safety-
oriented.
> On the other hand, he is also a fairly hot-tempered, foul language
> using Chicago policeman, and he wears a gun regularly, and there
are
> guns in a locked cabinet at home. It is my understanding that it
is
> ALWAYS locked, and this guy is almost zealotous in his safety
> orientation, so I believe that for the most part.
>

So is this a challenge or not- Is your daughter comfortable around
him? I have kids who come to play at my house and when they see my
husband for the first time some of them say "I have to go home now".
I have told my older son (14) to not tell his friends when he was
coming home so that if he needed a way out he could say "i have to
go home now" or if he calls to check in I will ask him if he needs
or wants to come home. Sometimes he would say yes and I would say ok
tell them you have to come home now.





> The relationship with my son is challenging to me. The girls love
> their little friend, but it can be hard on my son sometimes to not
be
> welcome in their home. Historically I have taken the approach of
> staying with him, because he is very attached, and the girls seem
> comfortable.

This is challenging maybe a compromise could be every so often they
paly at your house with the brother but mostly play alone. I do not
think I caught how old your son was. If young enough can you
redirect him to other things?



I do have the opportunity to have our helper stay with
> our son, but I think that he would be very upset about me going
down
> with the girls and him staying upstairs. That is just not the
usual
> mo for him - he is always with me, unless I am going to a doctor's
> appointment.
>
> I am finding it so complex, because it is what my daughters want
and
> they feel utterly comfortable with the situation, so I do not want
to
> make them upset about imposing requirements (or create an
> unnecessarily fearful scenario for them by sharing all of my
> concerns). On the other hand, I want to make sure that I feel
> comfortable, and currently, I do not always feel comfortable at
all
> times, particularly if I know that the father has been home and my
> girls are there.
>
> It is one of those situations where it is probably truly a 0%
> likelihood that anything bad will ever happen, but I am just
trying
> to do the job of looking out for risk for my children, and this
> situation has red flags in it for me.


I hear you here- the first time my son had a sleepover with a new
friend they were about 7 at the time I was scared to death that the
kids father would somehow molest him. Probably unrealistic but we
have all heard those stories right.

I think you have to balance real RED FLAGS with our mothers FEARS
and walk between them. I am trying to ask my girls how they feel
about a situation and foster an enviroment that they will tellme
anything. My son is like that he knows that I will listen and give
advice not just the normal mom stuff.

I think I would watch for warning signs from your girls. Are the
hesitant to go other when dad is home, are they drastically
different upon coming home? If you feel it is unsafe what could you
do to make it safer? Maybe you could go over there with them- it
would show the mom you DO NOT need a break and maybe they could play
with brother too. More work on your part but maybe worth the trouble
so see how the situation plays out



>
> I feel like there is the need for more communication and possibly
> some limit setting, but I want to do it very carefully, with all
> parties, obviously. That means I need to think a lot and could
use
> some input and examples of more experienced parents.

Maybe ask yourself how to empower your daughter to listen to her gut
and trust her choices which may not be your choices. What skills cna
you give her with out scaring her? How can you improve or foster a
relationship with her that she will talk to you and confide in you
without you jumping to rules and limiting. Now she is 4 but she will
be 10 and 16 and 18 and may need advice without you being scared of
the unknown.

My daughter wanted to check out the friends house (they happen to
have the apartment above us) but she did not want to go alone and
wanted me to come too to check out the friends room. I did not want
to go but knew it was important to her that I come and check it out
with her so we all marched upstairs and I told the dad what we were
doing and why and he was fine with it. Most of all it showed my
daughter that I would walk with her through difficult times and we
could trust each other. She will listen to my judgment but also push
to make her own choices.

You want them to be prepared to fight the world not shrink from it.
Just because it is uncomfortable for you does not make it wrong. I
have a sister who decided her kids would only have sleep overs at
her house because of all the bad stuff that could happen. What she
does not understand is that it would more than likely be a family
member hurting kids then outsiders so her kids would not really
be "more" safe they would just not have the skills to navigate in
this world.

I hope something in here helps you
JulieH


>
> It is difficult for me to ask other parents where we live, because
I
> think we have been outside of the norm, given the girls request
that
> we always be there. I believe it is common for kids to have
dropoff
> playdates and birthday parties at much younger ages. They were
doing
> it at age 4, when our daughter attended preschool for 1 year.
>
> Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.
>
> Kelly
>

Nicole Willoughby

Can the kids call if they get uncomfortable so you could go and get
them, or so they could talk to you? If so, and if they know you're
at the other end of the phone, that seems a good measure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was going to mention this ....looks like sandra beat me to it :).

Dd 8 is excited about the kids area but nervous about being "stuck" there .....she is used to being with mom all the time. So......$15 at target , little tracphone cell phone . I programed my number into it and she knows how to scroll to me and hit dial.
I feel a lot more comfy know she has the phone knowing she can call at any point she or little sis need me and I can go right there to them.


---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kacsshultz

> I would let the girls decide.

So far I have been doing this. I really trust their judgment of
people. I have asked them if they are comfortable, and they are. I
think that they are really accepting of the father's personality,
because we have not said anything that would cause them to feel
otherwise. He is kind of a known element in our community, although
it is different when you start to strike up a real relationship with
people rather than casual elevator conversation.

However, with that said, I do not believe that they are considering
the same set of information as I am in making their decision. They
are so used to my husband and I being around them that they are very
trusting, and I think that they would expect that we would not put
them into a dangerous or uncomfortable situation. I have not shared
any concerns about the gun the father wears, or the gun locker (my
husband and I have both acknowledged that it's important for the
locker to stay locked, and only the dad to go in), or the father's
hot temper with our girls.

Would you share, and if so, how might you share these with 8 and 6
yo's, without making it seem like a scary situation? I am starting
to get a sense of how I might be able to approach this, but would
definitely still appreciate help.

>
> Maybe make a big deal about doing something special with your son,
so
> he doesn't feel left out, and he will have done something the
girls
> are a little envious of. Take advantage of the chance to do
> something that would be too expensive with four, but affordable
with
> two, maybe. That's what I used to do when one child was left
out.
I have been having these really great play sessions with my son, but
on days when he seems a little more fragile and likely to melt down
when they leave, I do have a few options of places to take him.

I also just need to find a way to get over the feeling of how unfair
it is to my son. He is so sweet, and he knows that he is unwelcome
and excluded, and that hurts me so much to see. I see though, that
being the adult means that I might need to put my sense of fairness
aside, and just focus on making the best of the situation for him.
Hopefully the more positive instances we have, the better it will
feel over time.

> I don't think you should get a sitter for your son to go with the
girls.
>
> When I invite a kid over to play, it doesn't mean I want the mom
over
> too. It's more work to have another adult over than to just add a
> kid to the mix I already have (had; mine are not little now, but
they
> were!).

I would really put babysitting my son last on the list. You are
correct that the mom doesn't want more people there. She is usually
working while the kids are playing, and in effect, my daughters are
babysitting her daughter while she is there. She's even said
jokingly that she would be willing to pay for playdates. I think
that she would relish actually having her daughter come to our home
on her own, but her daughter is also hesitant to play away from her.
I've thought that if we could improve the little brother situation,
then we could exchange playdates, and I'm sure at some time that
might happen, but not for now. We do have them stay for dinner
sometimes, though, and the little girl seems fine with my son then,
for the most part.

>
> Can the kids call if they get uncomfortable so you could go and
get
> them, or so they could talk to you? If so, and if they know
you're
> at the other end of the phone, that seems a good measure.
>
You know, this highlights something that I think is important for me
to talk with the girls about. Because we have always traveled as a
pack, the girls have not really been focused on learning the typical
emergency information that you might expect. Because this family is
in the building, simply a few floors away, I have not stressed this.

However, I think that it might be reasonable for me to suggest that
if they want to go out to dinner with this family, and play without
me there, that it might be a good idea for us to go ahead and
memorize things like our phone number, address, etc. My oldest has
asked if she can get a cell phone when she gets older, and I've told
her that when it seems like she needs one, then we will go ahead and
get it. Perhaps now is the right time for one that will dial
home/mom cell/dad cell.

Thanks so much, this is very helpful.

Kelly

kacsshultz

> Sorry I am on the other list and planned on replying to your post
> but things got crazy around here. i think you may have been lost
> inthe shuffle of e-mails.That being said I am glad you are posting
> here anyway.
>
No need for apology; I understand, as there have been a lot of
exciting topics on the other list.

> Perhaps you should address this first in your own mind and then
with
> others.

That is why I am here asking for ideas. I usually need to work
things through a lot in my own head before I talk.

Looking at this at first glance it seems reasonable since
> you never know what could happen but at the same time there will
> come a time when they *will* be with other people out in the world.
>
> Its like he parents who do not want their kids talking to the
> opposite sex because it might lead to something but they forget
that
> kids need interaction so they can relate to being around others.
For
> a boy they need to be around boys so they get to know them so that
> when dating happens they are not so sheltered that they get into
> trouble.
>
> I hear the fear from you that you are scraed when they are not with
> you BUT you have to let that go a little and then a little more.
> Trust them and teach them to trust themselves- my daughter is 4 and
> do not go anywhere without me but recently she met a girl who is 8
> and they want to go play together. I let them outside without me
> because this girl is older and very motherly and they have to stay
> within range of my sight out the door. It is scary to let your kids
> go but do not protect so much at they can not learn or try out
their
> own skills.
>
The fear factor mainly comes from the father and his personality and
guns. If those factors were not there, I believe the situation would
be fear-free. I guess in my mind I'm still weighing the
appropriateness of me reacting in this way to a theoretical risk. I
think the people are nice, but things do happen. I know that my
husband would be very careful about approaching this man with
something controversial, because of knowledge of his temper. I think
that it is gray for me, whereas it would not be gray for most other
moms, mostly because they would not worry about taking their
children's feelings into consideration. He wears a gun? We're outta
there would be the response from a lot of moms I know.



> So is this a challenge or not- Is your daughter comfortable around
> him? I have kids who come to play at my house and when they see my
> husband for the first time some of them say "I have to go home
now".

I have two daughters there, one 8 and one 6. I know that when they
become tired or hungry and want to come home, they will tell the mom,
who will call me and let me know she will be bringing them home.

If any other situation other than normal developed, such as a
disagreement between the mother/father, or something else, I do not
know how my girls would react. Perhaps I can ask them what it's like
when he is around, and if he ever gets upset. I think that if it had
happened already though, I would have heard about it big time.

> This is challenging maybe a compromise could be every so often they
> paly at your house with the brother but mostly play alone. I do not
> think I caught how old your son was. If young enough can you
> redirect him to other things?
>

I think that maybe the best opportunity for me is to take advantage
of the few opportunities where they come up to visit for a while in
our home, and allow our little friend to get more comfortable with
our home and Truman. Sometimes I think that because she is an only
child, our home may seem noisy and intimidating to her. There is not
a lot that I can do about that, but I might be able to come up with
some more structured things to do that will make it fun for her. I
actually believe that her mother would be fine coming up with ideas
with me.

> I hear you here- the first time my son had a sleepover with a new
> friend they were about 7 at the time I was scared to death that the
> kids father would somehow molest him. Probably unrealistic but we
> have all heard those stories right.

I don't think these are just stories. I think that it does happen,
and and without creating a fearful life, we need to be honest about
what situations might be more risky for our children, and be
appropriately cautious about them. Defining what is appropriate in
each situation may vary, I think.
>
> I think you have to balance real RED FLAGS with our mothers FEARS
> and walk between them. I am trying to ask my girls how they feel
> about a situation and foster an enviroment that they will tellme
> anything. My son is like that he knows that I will listen and give
> advice not just the normal mom stuff.
>
> I think I would watch for warning signs from your girls. Are the
> hesitant to go other when dad is home, are they drastically
> different upon coming home? If you feel it is unsafe what could you
> do to make it safer? Maybe you could go over there with them- it
> would show the mom you DO NOT need a break and maybe they could
play
> with brother too. More work on your part but maybe worth the
trouble
> so see how the situation plays out
>
I think that the girls would tell me if anything weird or scary was
going on, immediately. So I think we're good there. I really don't
want to force myself and my son on the situation, for reasons I
explained earlier.

I realize also, that this situation is not one that needs to be black
and white with one be all end all answer. I think it will be a
combination of things - communication with my girls, maybe a little
bit of rethinking certain play dates, maybe a little bit of
conversation with the mother can all be part of helping me to work
within the situation to feel more comfortable.

Thanks so much for your input. It is helping me to think through
these things and make some progress.

Kelly

Kathy Brown

hi there.....I have yet to post but I wanted to respond to this string of
posts and suggest the book, "Protecting the Gift, Keeping Children and
Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane)" by Gavin De Becker. on page 82, he says,
"Until a child is old enough to understand what predatory strategies look
like, old enough and confident enough to resist them, assertive enough to
seek help, powerful enough to enforce the word No -- until all that happens,
a child is too young to be his (or her) own protector, too young to merit
any of your reliance, too young to be part of the defense system, period."

my two cents is to trust your gut, your body is telling you there are red
flags about the father, his temper and that he has guns.....if knowledge of
the man's temper intimidates your husband as you mentioned, imagine the
effect on two little girls in terms of intimidation.....it doesn't mean the
father is a predator but on the other hand he could be and with intimidation
already as a given it could be enough to silence your two little girls if
anything did happen......it's a hard reality to face but as parents we
must.....you should really read the book, and as Becker says, "be very
careful who you bring into your child's life" he also gives some great tips
on how to tell if your friends, family or acquaintances are in denial
because you don't want to leave your child with someone in denial either.
There are questions you can ask, answers that indicate denial, etc. if the
parents don't understand your feelings and concerns or they try to minimize
them, that's a huge red flag....to quote the book, " we minimize only that
which looms large, and the fact that we make an excuse for someone's
behavior is a sure sign that we perceive something wrong with the behavior."
I have to go but obviously, I highly recommend the book. :)

Best,
Kathy



From: "kacsshultz" <kashultz@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:40:26 -0000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Friendships, Autonomy, Safety, etc.



> Sorry I am on the other list and planned on replying to your post
> but things got crazy around here. i think you may have been lost
> inthe shuffle of e-mails.That being said I am glad you are posting
> here anyway.
>
No need for apology; I understand, as there have been a lot of
exciting topics on the other list.

> Perhaps you should address this first in your own mind and then
with
> others.

That is why I am here asking for ideas. I usually need to work
things through a lot in my own head before I talk.

Looking at this at first glance it seems reasonable since
> you never know what could happen but at the same time there will
> come a time when they *will* be with other people out in the world.
>
> Its like he parents who do not want their kids talking to the
> opposite sex because it might lead to something but they forget
that
> kids need interaction so they can relate to being around others.
For
> a boy they need to be around boys so they get to know them so that
> when dating happens they are not so sheltered that they get into
> trouble.
>
> I hear the fear from you that you are scraed when they are not with
> you BUT you have to let that go a little and then a little more.
> Trust them and teach them to trust themselves- my daughter is 4 and
> do not go anywhere without me but recently she met a girl who is 8
> and they want to go play together. I let them outside without me
> because this girl is older and very motherly and they have to stay
> within range of my sight out the door. It is scary to let your kids
> go but do not protect so much at they can not learn or try out
their
> own skills.
>
The fear factor mainly comes from the father and his personality and
guns. If those factors were not there, I believe the situation would
be fear-free. I guess in my mind I'm still weighing the
appropriateness of me reacting in this way to a theoretical risk. I
think the people are nice, but things do happen. I know that my
husband would be very careful about approaching this man with
something controversial, because of knowledge of his temper. I think
that it is gray for me, whereas it would not be gray for most other
moms, mostly because they would not worry about taking their
children's feelings into consideration. He wears a gun? We're outta
there would be the response from a lot of moms I know.

> So is this a challenge or not- Is your daughter comfortable around
> him? I have kids who come to play at my house and when they see my
> husband for the first time some of them say "I have to go home
now".

I have two daughters there, one 8 and one 6. I know that when they
become tired or hungry and want to come home, they will tell the mom,
who will call me and let me know she will be bringing them home.

If any other situation other than normal developed, such as a
disagreement between the mother/father, or something else, I do not
know how my girls would react. Perhaps I can ask them what it's like
when he is around, and if he ever gets upset. I think that if it had
happened already though, I would have heard about it big time.

> This is challenging maybe a compromise could be every so often they
> paly at your house with the brother but mostly play alone. I do not
> think I caught how old your son was. If young enough can you
> redirect him to other things?
>

I think that maybe the best opportunity for me is to take advantage
of the few opportunities where they come up to visit for a while in
our home, and allow our little friend to get more comfortable with
our home and Truman. Sometimes I think that because she is an only
child, our home may seem noisy and intimidating to her. There is not
a lot that I can do about that, but I might be able to come up with
some more structured things to do that will make it fun for her. I
actually believe that her mother would be fine coming up with ideas
with me.

> I hear you here- the first time my son had a sleepover with a new
> friend they were about 7 at the time I was scared to death that the
> kids father would somehow molest him. Probably unrealistic but we
> have all heard those stories right.

I don't think these are just stories. I think that it does happen,
and and without creating a fearful life, we need to be honest about
what situations might be more risky for our children, and be
appropriately cautious about them. Defining what is appropriate in
each situation may vary, I think.
>
> I think you have to balance real RED FLAGS with our mothers FEARS
> and walk between them. I am trying to ask my girls how they feel
> about a situation and foster an enviroment that they will tellme
> anything. My son is like that he knows that I will listen and give
> advice not just the normal mom stuff.
>
> I think I would watch for warning signs from your girls. Are the
> hesitant to go other when dad is home, are they drastically
> different upon coming home? If you feel it is unsafe what could you
> do to make it safer? Maybe you could go over there with them- it
> would show the mom you DO NOT need a break and maybe they could
play
> with brother too. More work on your part but maybe worth the
trouble
> so see how the situation plays out
>
I think that the girls would tell me if anything weird or scary was
going on, immediately. So I think we're good there. I really don't
want to force myself and my son on the situation, for reasons I
explained earlier.

I realize also, that this situation is not one that needs to be black
and white with one be all end all answer. I think it will be a
combination of things - communication with my girls, maybe a little
bit of rethinking certain play dates, maybe a little bit of
conversation with the mother can all be part of helping me to work
within the situation to feel more comfortable.

Thanks so much for your input. It is helping me to think through
these things and make some progress.

Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan

> hi there.....I have yet to post but I wanted to respond to this string of
> posts and suggest the book, "Protecting the Gift, Keeping Children and
> Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane)" by Gavin De Becker


I want to second this book! It gave me lots to think about concerning
safety & children. I came away with new perspectives on situations
that make me uncomfortable. The big thing I really got out of this
book was empowerment to trust my gut. I don't want to live in fear, or
have fear rule my decisions, so I always try to get at my underlying
concerns, identify them and ask myself practical questions.

But the bottom line is that if you really feel red flags cropping up,
then perhaps there is a reason for them - even if you can't put your
finger on why or fully explain your concerns to other people, even if
you can mentally rationalize your worries away. If you can sort
through your feelings and try to remove those concerns you have about
your son being left out and the fact that you aren't entirely used to
them being away from you (which are valid feelings, but not
necessarily relevant to your girls' safety) and you still feel uneasy,
then I would listen to my intuition.

~ Susan

kacsshultz

Thank you Kathy and Susan. I have heard this book mentioned before,
but kind of forgotten about it. I am definitely going to order it
from the library so that my husband and I may both read it.

Kelly

--- In [email protected], Susan <SusanYvonne@...> wrote:
>
> > hi there.....I have yet to post but I wanted to respond to this
string of
> > posts and suggest the book, "Protecting the Gift, Keeping
Children and
> > Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane)" by Gavin De Becker
>
>
> I want to second this book! It gave me lots to think about
concerning
> safety & children. I came away with new perspectives on situations
> that make me uncomfortable. The big thing I really got out of this
> book was empowerment to trust my gut. I don't want to live in fear,
or
> have fear rule my decisions, so I always try to get at my underlying
> concerns, identify them and ask myself practical questions.
>
> But the bottom line is that if you really feel red flags cropping
up,
> then perhaps there is a reason for them - even if you can't put your
> finger on why or fully explain your concerns to other people, even
if
> you can mentally rationalize your worries away. If you can sort
> through your feelings and try to remove those concerns you have
about
> your son being left out and the fact that you aren't entirely used
to
> them being away from you (which are valid feelings, but not
> necessarily relevant to your girls' safety) and you still feel
uneasy,
> then I would listen to my intuition.
>
> ~ Susan
>