Mythology class
Ed Wendell
I am having conflicting thoughts about the teacher's offer - within the text below.
Our local homeschool group is offering "classes" and our son wants to take this Mythology class - he is 13 - remember, our son is the one who will monopolize a converstaion and a teacher, we had a post about a month ago on classes and summer camps.
We wrote the teacher and explained why dad would be attending the class too - here is basically what we wrote:
**** After much thought we are giving you a bit of information on Zachariah, that we don't normally share with others, in the hopes it might help with the class.
First of all he loves Mythology and this is the only class he got excited about and insisted he wanted to do.
Next:
He will often get so excited and into the subject he will talk and talk and talk. He often gets so focused on his wants and needs he does not notice other's needs, he is not good at reading body language and often becomes so engrossed in what he is focused on that he just does not notice what he is doing and it's effects on others. He is a very kind person, being helpful to others, etc. It's the excessive talking that gets him into "trouble" in groups / classes. He will want to discuss and dissect every conversation - every bit of information. He will try to monopolize the conversation with you, the teacher/adult, if given half a chance.
Ed (dad) will be bringing him to class. I think we will approach this with dad attending the class too - to help guide Zac - to be his partner in the learning / class. In the past we thought he would learn social skills by being in social situations - We now realize that he is not "getting it" due to being unaware - we gleaned this through observations and discussions with Zac. We have given it a lot of thought and study recently and feel that if dad is with him and can coach / work with him in the moment that might help Zac as well as the teacher and the other students.
If at any time you have concerns please address them with his dad - we continually work with Zac on his social skills and group skills but he can just be so unaware at times. If you feel comfortable in having a kind, compassionate discussion at some point with him about not always getting a turn, holding his thoughts, not every thought that jumps into his head has to jump out of his mouth, being aware of the others in the group, that would be fine with us. If you talk with him and not at him, I believe he would truly listen and try.
Respectfully,
Ed & Lisa
~~~~~~~~
This is the teacher's reply:
Thank you so much for sharing this with me. I have a son, 16, who is also a talker, he is hard to keep on track, but when something interests him, he is almost obsessive about it. I don't mean to imply that my son and your Zac are "the same," but I really do understand what you are trying to tell me and I appreciate it so much.
It is fine with me that Ed is going to come to the class.
The format of the class is such that I read a myth (2 if they are shorter ones) and we do a project based on that myth. We also get into the family tree of the gods, a few fun puzzles and and word searches, and some language and vocabulary, since so much of our language comes from the Greek and Latin. We even do a little astrology (Pegasus.) So, there is an amount of time that will be spent being quiet and listening. When we do, for instance, the language portion, I will present the Greek/Latin word or prefix and challenge the class to come up with the word or words that have that root.
(here is the part that is causing conflicting thoughts for us and we would appreciate thoughts from the group before we reply to the teacher.)
I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present something? What do you think?
I think I met your Zac. I was at the coffee house several weeks ago with my son. There was a Zac there and he had made a wooden sword. Was that your son? (it was)
Anyway, thank you so much for your input. I will save your email and reread it before the class starts so what you told me is fresh in my mind. I am really looking forward to this class and to meeting your son. If you have further concerns, please contact me via email or phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Our local homeschool group is offering "classes" and our son wants to take this Mythology class - he is 13 - remember, our son is the one who will monopolize a converstaion and a teacher, we had a post about a month ago on classes and summer camps.
We wrote the teacher and explained why dad would be attending the class too - here is basically what we wrote:
**** After much thought we are giving you a bit of information on Zachariah, that we don't normally share with others, in the hopes it might help with the class.
First of all he loves Mythology and this is the only class he got excited about and insisted he wanted to do.
Next:
He will often get so excited and into the subject he will talk and talk and talk. He often gets so focused on his wants and needs he does not notice other's needs, he is not good at reading body language and often becomes so engrossed in what he is focused on that he just does not notice what he is doing and it's effects on others. He is a very kind person, being helpful to others, etc. It's the excessive talking that gets him into "trouble" in groups / classes. He will want to discuss and dissect every conversation - every bit of information. He will try to monopolize the conversation with you, the teacher/adult, if given half a chance.
Ed (dad) will be bringing him to class. I think we will approach this with dad attending the class too - to help guide Zac - to be his partner in the learning / class. In the past we thought he would learn social skills by being in social situations - We now realize that he is not "getting it" due to being unaware - we gleaned this through observations and discussions with Zac. We have given it a lot of thought and study recently and feel that if dad is with him and can coach / work with him in the moment that might help Zac as well as the teacher and the other students.
If at any time you have concerns please address them with his dad - we continually work with Zac on his social skills and group skills but he can just be so unaware at times. If you feel comfortable in having a kind, compassionate discussion at some point with him about not always getting a turn, holding his thoughts, not every thought that jumps into his head has to jump out of his mouth, being aware of the others in the group, that would be fine with us. If you talk with him and not at him, I believe he would truly listen and try.
Respectfully,
Ed & Lisa
~~~~~~~~
This is the teacher's reply:
Thank you so much for sharing this with me. I have a son, 16, who is also a talker, he is hard to keep on track, but when something interests him, he is almost obsessive about it. I don't mean to imply that my son and your Zac are "the same," but I really do understand what you are trying to tell me and I appreciate it so much.
It is fine with me that Ed is going to come to the class.
The format of the class is such that I read a myth (2 if they are shorter ones) and we do a project based on that myth. We also get into the family tree of the gods, a few fun puzzles and and word searches, and some language and vocabulary, since so much of our language comes from the Greek and Latin. We even do a little astrology (Pegasus.) So, there is an amount of time that will be spent being quiet and listening. When we do, for instance, the language portion, I will present the Greek/Latin word or prefix and challenge the class to come up with the word or words that have that root.
(here is the part that is causing conflicting thoughts for us and we would appreciate thoughts from the group before we reply to the teacher.)
I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present something? What do you think?
I think I met your Zac. I was at the coffee house several weeks ago with my son. There was a Zac there and he had made a wooden sword. Was that your son? (it was)
Anyway, thank you so much for your input. I will save your email and reread it before the class starts so what you told me is fresh in my mind. I am really looking forward to this class and to meeting your son. If you have further concerns, please contact me via email or phone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-(here is the part that is causing conflicting thoughts for us and
we would appreciate thoughts from the group before we reply to the
teacher.)
I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to
bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each
week? It could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the
behavior expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each
class to present something? What do you think?-=-
Why is it bothering you?
It seems a concession and a possibility.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
we would appreciate thoughts from the group before we reply to the
teacher.)
I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to
bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each
week? It could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the
behavior expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each
class to present something? What do you think?-=-
Why is it bothering you?
It seems a concession and a possibility.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
harmony
= I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to
bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It
could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior
expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present
something? What do you think?
It sounds like the teacher is very kind and fair. She doesn't have a problem with dad coming to class and she is willing to give him his own time to talk. If he wants to do that I would try it and see how he likes it. Too bad all teachers can't be that understanding and try to fill the needs of the kids.
Harmony
bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It
could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior
expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present
something? What do you think?
It sounds like the teacher is very kind and fair. She doesn't have a problem with dad coming to class and she is willing to give him his own time to talk. If he wants to do that I would try it and see how he likes it. Too bad all teachers can't be that understanding and try to fill the needs of the kids.
Harmony
Susan
> I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to bring an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It could be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior expectations. I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present something? What do you think?I read this part several times and realized she could be presenting
this offer from a few different angles. It's hard to tell if she's
genuinely understanding what you wrote and is trying to utilize his
skills and knowledge in a positive way or if she believes that with
the right reward he'll behave properly and is extending this offer as
if/only situation (he only can read his factoid if he behaves as
expected). Do you see this as a manipulation / reward system
agreement? Is that your concern?
Or is it that you know that despite intentions and an offer of special
participation he won't be able to overcome the need to talk and you're
concerned that she doesn't "get" your explanation of your son?
Just trying to guess what troubled you about her comments.
~ Susan
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<<< > (here is the part that is causing conflicting thoughts for us
and we would appreciate thoughts from the group before we reply to the
teacher.)
I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to bring
an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It could
be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior expectations.
I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present something?
What do you think? >>>>>
My reading of the concerns here is the part about "complying with the
behavior expectations". I had the feeling that the parents here were trying
to explain ahead of time that Zac would not have it in him to comply with
behavior expectations or even be aware of when he wasn't fitting in, and
that was why his Dad wanted to be with him, to help him not be disruptive
and to be the listening post if needed.
I guess I had the same thoughts as Susan, that the idea of a reward for
compliance, which perhaps they doubt he would be able to ever earn, might
also be their concern. I think it is worth clearing up the definition of the
presentation, and fully understand what those behavior expectations are,
rather than making assumptions about them. Perhaps worst case - does the
teacher expect that Zac will not speak other than his moment? It sounds a
little contrived to have this show and tell aspect instead of the
conversation flowing naturally from the particular topic of the day. But I
suppose a class with a plan and structure isn't a natural conversation in
the first place, is it?
The teacher sounds very open, but what sounds good on paper can turn out to
different in practice. Being a black hat thinker, my mind jumps to the
conclusion that the teacher might want to reread the list of issues so that
she is ready to jump on Zac and put a stop to any nonsense before it starts.
*Sigh* I'm most probably doing her a grave injustice.
What does Zac think about the idea of bringing an interesting fact? Can the
first lesson not be a trial, to see if the class lives up to his
expectations? (I tend to treat all classes in that way.)
It sounds like Zac would get a lot out of a club or discussion group ahead
of classes. Maybe the greatest value in the class will be meeting up with
other mythology afficianados who might form the basis of friendships. I keep
thinking about the various societies in college. When I first went to
University to study science, I joined two societies with the idea of staying
somewhat connected to the Liberal Arts - the Debating Club, expecting
serious and erudite discourse , and the Science Fiction Society, for a bit
of fun. Boy was I mistaken. The Debaters were a bunch of hilarious folks,
with much joy in the silliest of topics and much beer, while the SciFi
people were a bunch of verrrrry serious fellows, very earnest, rather dour
and lacking in any sense of humor about their favorite authors or books. And
the meetings were way dull too.
My fil is a member of a Sherlock Holmes club, "Strollers on the Strand" -
they meet periodically to have a gourmet meal and discuss a different
mystery, with the locations being very imaginatively connected to the
specific story and hosted by different members. They have a couple of
quizzes, including one tradition - guess the ingredients in the salad. They
dress up too.....
Robyn L. Coburn
and we would appreciate thoughts from the group before we reply to the
teacher.)
I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to bring
an interesting fact or tidbit of information to class each week? It could
be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior expectations.
I could give him the last 5 minutes of each class to present something?
What do you think? >>>>>
My reading of the concerns here is the part about "complying with the
behavior expectations". I had the feeling that the parents here were trying
to explain ahead of time that Zac would not have it in him to comply with
behavior expectations or even be aware of when he wasn't fitting in, and
that was why his Dad wanted to be with him, to help him not be disruptive
and to be the listening post if needed.
I guess I had the same thoughts as Susan, that the idea of a reward for
compliance, which perhaps they doubt he would be able to ever earn, might
also be their concern. I think it is worth clearing up the definition of the
presentation, and fully understand what those behavior expectations are,
rather than making assumptions about them. Perhaps worst case - does the
teacher expect that Zac will not speak other than his moment? It sounds a
little contrived to have this show and tell aspect instead of the
conversation flowing naturally from the particular topic of the day. But I
suppose a class with a plan and structure isn't a natural conversation in
the first place, is it?
The teacher sounds very open, but what sounds good on paper can turn out to
different in practice. Being a black hat thinker, my mind jumps to the
conclusion that the teacher might want to reread the list of issues so that
she is ready to jump on Zac and put a stop to any nonsense before it starts.
*Sigh* I'm most probably doing her a grave injustice.
What does Zac think about the idea of bringing an interesting fact? Can the
first lesson not be a trial, to see if the class lives up to his
expectations? (I tend to treat all classes in that way.)
It sounds like Zac would get a lot out of a club or discussion group ahead
of classes. Maybe the greatest value in the class will be meeting up with
other mythology afficianados who might form the basis of friendships. I keep
thinking about the various societies in college. When I first went to
University to study science, I joined two societies with the idea of staying
somewhat connected to the Liberal Arts - the Debating Club, expecting
serious and erudite discourse , and the Science Fiction Society, for a bit
of fun. Boy was I mistaken. The Debaters were a bunch of hilarious folks,
with much joy in the silliest of topics and much beer, while the SciFi
people were a bunch of verrrrry serious fellows, very earnest, rather dour
and lacking in any sense of humor about their favorite authors or books. And
the meetings were way dull too.
My fil is a member of a Sherlock Holmes club, "Strollers on the Strand" -
they meet periodically to have a gourmet meal and discuss a different
mystery, with the locations being very imaginatively connected to the
specific story and hosted by different members. They have a couple of
quizzes, including one tradition - guess the ingredients in the salad. They
dress up too.....
Robyn L. Coburn
Ed Wendell
Susan: I read this part several times and realized she could be presenting
this offer from a few different angles. It's hard to tell if she's
genuinely understanding what you wrote and is trying to utilize his
skills and knowledge in a positive way or if she believes that with
the right reward he'll behave properly and is extending this offer as
if/only situation (he only can read his factoid if he behaves as
expected). Do you see this as a manipulation / reward system
agreement? Is that your concern?
Lisa: Yes that is my main concern -
We wrote her back last night and told her we were giving it some thought and here is her reply - makes more sense to me now:
***Well, I would say if there were another child there that had a lot of knowledge about the subject, I would make the same offer. I have had kids that have a lot of musical ability in singing classes and have asked them to sing for the class, or play an instrument.
We could make it a one-time thing, if you would be more comfortable with that.
You know your son better than anyone else, you decide. ***
(Of course it would be Zac deciding not Ed & I.)
Susan: Or is it that you know that despite intentions and an offer of special
participation he won't be able to overcome the need to talk and you're
concerned that she doesn't "get" your explanation of your son?
Lisa - I think she gets it. And dad will be there to team work with him so he should be able to "do it".
Thank you everyone - you have given us some new ways of thinking about it and some words to articulate our thoughts better with the teacher.
We were thinking we did not want him to spend time preparing and then for her to decide his behavior did not warrent the special presentation; for her to be the total judge; but also wanted to give him the chance she was offering if he wanted to do it.
Thinking that this might be a good opportunity for him to develop some interpersonal skills / presentation skills.
Ed & Lisa
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this offer from a few different angles. It's hard to tell if she's
genuinely understanding what you wrote and is trying to utilize his
skills and knowledge in a positive way or if she believes that with
the right reward he'll behave properly and is extending this offer as
if/only situation (he only can read his factoid if he behaves as
expected). Do you see this as a manipulation / reward system
agreement? Is that your concern?
Lisa: Yes that is my main concern -
We wrote her back last night and told her we were giving it some thought and here is her reply - makes more sense to me now:
***Well, I would say if there were another child there that had a lot of knowledge about the subject, I would make the same offer. I have had kids that have a lot of musical ability in singing classes and have asked them to sing for the class, or play an instrument.
We could make it a one-time thing, if you would be more comfortable with that.
You know your son better than anyone else, you decide. ***
(Of course it would be Zac deciding not Ed & I.)
Susan: Or is it that you know that despite intentions and an offer of special
participation he won't be able to overcome the need to talk and you're
concerned that she doesn't "get" your explanation of your son?
Lisa - I think she gets it. And dad will be there to team work with him so he should be able to "do it".
Thank you everyone - you have given us some new ways of thinking about it and some words to articulate our thoughts better with the teacher.
We were thinking we did not want him to spend time preparing and then for her to decide his behavior did not warrent the special presentation; for her to be the total judge; but also wanted to give him the chance she was offering if he wanted to do it.
Thinking that this might be a good opportunity for him to develop some interpersonal skills / presentation skills.
Ed & Lisa
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
>>(here is the part that is causing conflicting thoughts for us and we wouldappreciate thoughts from the group before we
>>reply to the teacher.)an interesting fact or tidbit of information to >>class each week? It could
>>I have an idea. If Zac knows a lot about mythology, would he like to bring
be his "payoff" so to speak, for complying with the behavior expectations. I
could give him the >>last 5 minutes of each class to present something? What
do you think?<<
What struck me was "each week". I would check to see if she is flexible
about this too. If he doesn't bring something in one or more weeks, might
there might be some public embarrassment about it? Can she move along easily
without it? Could it be set up such that if he shows up with something to
share she'll include it but if not, no big deal?
It *could* be a stress factor otherwise.
I think it is important to clarify all the points mentioned in the response
posts with her before asking Zac if he would like to partake in her offer.
Particularly the points about whether she is going to use the 'reward' to
expect certain behavior from him. I'm sure she doesn't want to set the
situation up for failure, but she may subscribe to what she knows, and who
knows what she knows.
She does sound like a very flexible and understanding woman, and this could
be great.
Jacki
Ed Wendell
Robyn: ... that was why his Dad wanted to be with him, to help him not be disruptive
and to be the listening post if needed.
Lisa: Yes, that is what we are trying to accomplish.
Robyn: ...., that the idea of a reward for compliance, which perhaps they doubt he would be able to ever earn, might
also be their concern.
Lisa: I really do think he can do this with our support / team work because he wants to do this. Usually he only chooses to do the offered art class. (he usually will not even choose the sports activities) I like her class structure in that it has some listening time but also a lot of hands on group activities which seemed to be what he could handle with our support.
Robyn: I think it is worth clearing up the definition of the
presentation, and fully understand what those behavior expectations are,
rather than making assumptions about them. Perhaps worst case - does the
teacher expect that Zac will not speak other than his moment? It sounds a
little contrived to have this show and tell aspect instead of the
conversation flowing naturally from the particular topic of the day. But I
suppose a class with a plan and structure isn't a natural conversation in
the first place, is it?
Lisa: She will have all the participants involved, talking, conversing throughout the lesson but with Zac being guided not to hog the class/teacher, Dad will be team working with him. The class is also only for one hour. She will read a short Myth to the class, then they will do activities connected with that Myth. We will definitely leave it all up to Zac - if he wants to do any presentations or just one or some, etc.
Robyn: Can the first lesson not be a trial, to see if the class lives up to his
expectations? (I tend to treat all classes in that way.)
Lisa: We do too. He took Martial Arts for 4 years and chose to quit about 6 months before becoming a black belt - totally his choice - he said he was tired of going twice a week and was ready to do something else.
_,_._,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and to be the listening post if needed.
Lisa: Yes, that is what we are trying to accomplish.
Robyn: ...., that the idea of a reward for compliance, which perhaps they doubt he would be able to ever earn, might
also be their concern.
Lisa: I really do think he can do this with our support / team work because he wants to do this. Usually he only chooses to do the offered art class. (he usually will not even choose the sports activities) I like her class structure in that it has some listening time but also a lot of hands on group activities which seemed to be what he could handle with our support.
Robyn: I think it is worth clearing up the definition of the
presentation, and fully understand what those behavior expectations are,
rather than making assumptions about them. Perhaps worst case - does the
teacher expect that Zac will not speak other than his moment? It sounds a
little contrived to have this show and tell aspect instead of the
conversation flowing naturally from the particular topic of the day. But I
suppose a class with a plan and structure isn't a natural conversation in
the first place, is it?
Lisa: She will have all the participants involved, talking, conversing throughout the lesson but with Zac being guided not to hog the class/teacher, Dad will be team working with him. The class is also only for one hour. She will read a short Myth to the class, then they will do activities connected with that Myth. We will definitely leave it all up to Zac - if he wants to do any presentations or just one or some, etc.
Robyn: Can the first lesson not be a trial, to see if the class lives up to his
expectations? (I tend to treat all classes in that way.)
Lisa: We do too. He took Martial Arts for 4 years and chose to quit about 6 months before becoming a black belt - totally his choice - he said he was tired of going twice a week and was ready to do something else.
_,_._,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]