Virtue and Superman and Batman and Above-Averag Joe
Sandra Dodd
I found a definition of "virtue" that I really liked, on the visual
thesaurus, and it's "the quality of doing what is right and avoiding
what is wrong."
Marty, who participated with a group I ran all last winter to have
weekly discussions with a dozen SCA members of medieval virtues and
applying virtues in the everyday modern world, was right there. I
told him the definition and he kinda turned his mouth to one said and
shook his head, and said "I don't like the 'avoiding' part. I don't
want to avoid what's wrong."
I thought maybe they meant avoid doing what's wrong, but Marty
figures virtuous people have to be in a position to try to stop "wrong."
I said "But you want to be a super hero, and I just want to be
virtuous!" (Above-Average Joe, who has a MySpace page, is secretly
Marty Dodd. If I'd named him Diego Dodd instead, it would have been
more in keeping with naming practice, but Zorro has Diego... but I
digress...)
His response to that was "I bet you like Superman better than
Batman." It's true, I do.
He said a study had shown that passive people liked Superman better,
and Batman fans tended to want to do something to solve other
people's problems. Well... I do like Superman, but I kinda feel
that I'm an other-people's-problem-solver, too, to the point that
some who know me best will preface a story with "I don't want you to
do anything, but..." or "I don't want this fixed, I just want advice."
So maybe I mess up the theory or maybe I just don't appreciate Batman
as I should. Maybe I just prefer primary colors to a black-and-
purple theme. Maybe I like writers. Maybe I was born in the 50's
instead of the 60's and that's that.
Any other thoughts on "avoiding what is wrong"?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thesaurus, and it's "the quality of doing what is right and avoiding
what is wrong."
Marty, who participated with a group I ran all last winter to have
weekly discussions with a dozen SCA members of medieval virtues and
applying virtues in the everyday modern world, was right there. I
told him the definition and he kinda turned his mouth to one said and
shook his head, and said "I don't like the 'avoiding' part. I don't
want to avoid what's wrong."
I thought maybe they meant avoid doing what's wrong, but Marty
figures virtuous people have to be in a position to try to stop "wrong."
I said "But you want to be a super hero, and I just want to be
virtuous!" (Above-Average Joe, who has a MySpace page, is secretly
Marty Dodd. If I'd named him Diego Dodd instead, it would have been
more in keeping with naming practice, but Zorro has Diego... but I
digress...)
His response to that was "I bet you like Superman better than
Batman." It's true, I do.
He said a study had shown that passive people liked Superman better,
and Batman fans tended to want to do something to solve other
people's problems. Well... I do like Superman, but I kinda feel
that I'm an other-people's-problem-solver, too, to the point that
some who know me best will preface a story with "I don't want you to
do anything, but..." or "I don't want this fixed, I just want advice."
So maybe I mess up the theory or maybe I just don't appreciate Batman
as I should. Maybe I just prefer primary colors to a black-and-
purple theme. Maybe I like writers. Maybe I was born in the 50's
instead of the 60's and that's that.
Any other thoughts on "avoiding what is wrong"?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
riasplace3
> Any other thoughts on "avoiding what is wrong"?It kinda depends on what you're defining as "wrong" doesn't it?
It's "wrong" for *anyone* to live in fear...
it's "wrong" for *anyone* to have to go hungry...
IMO, it's "wrong" for my husband to look at porn...
it's "wrong" for me to drive after a night of hard drinking...
In our country, it's "wrong" to smoke pot...
it's "wrong" to walk across a street and not use the crosswalk (some
places)...
If everyone avoids "wrong", who's going to fix things? Will children
still go go bed hungry...because we look the other way instead of
getting close to a "wrong"?
Will I drink and drive? Or will someone help me not to...not avoid
the "wrong"ness of it, but make an effort to help me?
Would my brother go to jail for smoking pot, or could a doctor stand
up and say, "I will confront the wrong of living with chronic pain
and find a way to help you...even without medical insurance."
Okay, now I've forgotten my point...and what the original post said.
Apparently, though, I'm a Batman...
Ria (tired and not making much sense)
Kim H
<<His response to that was "I bet you like Superman better than
Batman." It's true, I do.>>
Hmmm, this is interesting. If I had to choose I over Batman and Superman I would choose Superman. But, out of them all I really like Spiderman. Any thoughts on him and avoidance etc?
Kim
PS My husband has always raved about Superman and he is ULTRA passive and an ultra avoider!
Batman." It's true, I do.>>
Hmmm, this is interesting. If I had to choose I over Batman and Superman I would choose Superman. But, out of them all I really like Spiderman. Any thoughts on him and avoidance etc?
Kim
PS My husband has always raved about Superman and he is ULTRA passive and an ultra avoider!
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Virtue and Superman and Batman and Above-Averag Joe
I found a definition of "virtue" that I really liked, on the visual
thesaurus, and it's "the quality of doing what is right and avoiding
what is wrong."
Marty, who participated with a group I ran all last winter to have
weekly discussions with a dozen SCA members of medieval virtues and
applying virtues in the everyday modern world, was right there. I
told him the definition and he kinda turned his mouth to one said and
shook his head, and said "I don't like the 'avoiding' part. I don't
want to avoid what's wrong."
I thought maybe they meant avoid doing what's wrong, but Marty
figures virtuous people have to be in a position to try to stop "wrong."
I said "But you want to be a super hero, and I just want to be
virtuous!" (Above-Average Joe, who has a MySpace page, is secretly
Marty Dodd. If I'd named him Diego Dodd instead, it would have been
more in keeping with naming practice, but Zorro has Diego... but I
digress...)
His response to that was "I bet you like Superman better than
Batman." It's true, I do.
He said a study had shown that passive people liked Superman better,
and Batman fans tended to want to do something to solve other
people's problems. Well... I do like Superman, but I kinda feel
that I'm an other-people's-problem-solver, too, to the point that
some who know me best will preface a story with "I don't want you to
do anything, but..." or "I don't want this fixed, I just want advice."
So maybe I mess up the theory or maybe I just don't appreciate Batman
as I should. Maybe I just prefer primary colors to a black-and-
purple theme. Maybe I like writers. Maybe I was born in the 50's
instead of the 60's and that's that.
Any other thoughts on "avoiding what is wrong"?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-It kinda depends on what you're defining as "wrong" doesn't it?
It's "wrong" for *anyone* to live in fear...
it's "wrong" for *anyone* to have to go hungry...-=-
Well it's wrong that English sucks. I mean "English sucks"---> correct.
#1, I misspelled "average" (or I typo-fied it, anyway). That's
wrong, not to spell as well as one can in public.
-=-IMO, it's "wrong" for my husband to look at porn...-=-
Porn doesn't bother me. So in my universe, with my own divvying up
of wrong from right, porn is no big deal.
Spending a bunch of money on it would be a bad thing. Leaving it
casually lying around would be "wrong" (in my wrongs).
If my husband didn't put gas in the cars, that would be "wrong," but
that comes under fulfilling obligations and safety and consideration
(for me, not the same in every family/home/couple).
If my husband had no clean underwear one day that would be wrong.
Partly it would be wrong because it's never happened to him since I
came into his life (and maybe never before that, but I don't know).
It has happened to ME in the past thirty years, but not to Keith.
(Partly he owns more underwear, partly I'm less conscientious about
keeping my own clothes laundered than I am about his, because he has
to go to work.)
-=-If everyone avoids "wrong", who's going to fix things? Will children
still go go bed hungry...because we look the other way instead of
getting close to a "wrong"?-=-
When I read the definition I saw it as making the better choice.
Seeing two things and making the worse/wrong choice isn't virtuous.
Seeing hungry children and doing nothing would be choosing the wrong.
It's not about avoiding other people's "wrong," it's about not
creating some of your own. (I think. As I interpretted it is was.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's "wrong" for *anyone* to live in fear...
it's "wrong" for *anyone* to have to go hungry...-=-
Well it's wrong that English sucks. I mean "English sucks"---> correct.
#1, I misspelled "average" (or I typo-fied it, anyway). That's
wrong, not to spell as well as one can in public.
-=-IMO, it's "wrong" for my husband to look at porn...-=-
Porn doesn't bother me. So in my universe, with my own divvying up
of wrong from right, porn is no big deal.
Spending a bunch of money on it would be a bad thing. Leaving it
casually lying around would be "wrong" (in my wrongs).
If my husband didn't put gas in the cars, that would be "wrong," but
that comes under fulfilling obligations and safety and consideration
(for me, not the same in every family/home/couple).
If my husband had no clean underwear one day that would be wrong.
Partly it would be wrong because it's never happened to him since I
came into his life (and maybe never before that, but I don't know).
It has happened to ME in the past thirty years, but not to Keith.
(Partly he owns more underwear, partly I'm less conscientious about
keeping my own clothes laundered than I am about his, because he has
to go to work.)
-=-If everyone avoids "wrong", who's going to fix things? Will children
still go go bed hungry...because we look the other way instead of
getting close to a "wrong"?-=-
When I read the definition I saw it as making the better choice.
Seeing two things and making the worse/wrong choice isn't virtuous.
Seeing hungry children and doing nothing would be choosing the wrong.
It's not about avoiding other people's "wrong," it's about not
creating some of your own. (I think. As I interpretted it is was.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-But, out of them all I really like Spiderman. Any thoughts on him
and avoidance etc?-=-
My first thought was that if you haven't heard Weird Al's song about
Spiderman, you should. It's a parody of Billy Joel's "piano man."
You can get it from iTunes for 99 cents (or whatever that is in
wherever you are).
The lyrics are
Weird Al Yankovic - Spiderman Lyrics
(Parody of "Piano Man" by Billy Joel)
Poor Peter Parker was pitiful
Couldn't have been any shier
Mary Jane still wouldn't notice him
Even if his hair was on fire
But then one day he went to that science lab
That mutated spider came down
Oh and now Peter crawls over everyone's walls
And he's swingin' all over town
La la la didy dah
La la lily da da dum
Sling us a web you're the Spiderman
Sling us a web tonight
'Cause we're all in the mood for a hero now
And there's evil-doers to fight
Now Harry the rich kid's a friend of his
Who horns in on Mary Jane
But to his great surprise
It seems she prefers guys
Who can kiss upsidedown in the rain
"With great power comes great responsibility"
That's the catch phrase of old Uncle Ben
If you missed it, don't worry they'll say the line
Again and again and again
La la la didy dah
La la didy da da dum
Now Norman's a billionaire scientist
Who never had time for his son
And then somethin' went screwy
And before you knew, he
was trying to kill everyone
Then he'd ridin' around on that glider-thing
And he'd throw in that weird pumpkin bomb
Yes, he's wearin' that dumb Power Rangers mask
But he's scarier without it on
Sling us a web you're the Spiderman
Sling us a web tonight
'Cause you're brave and you're strong and so limber now
But where'd you come up with those tights
It's a pretty sad day at the funeral
Norman Osbourne has bitten the dust
And I heard Harry said he wants Spiderman dead
Ah but his buddy Pete he can trust
Oh and M.J. is all hot for Peter now
Ah but Peter he just shuts her down
Mary Jane don't you cry, you can give it a try
Again when the sequel comes around
La la la didy dah
La la didy da da dum
Sling us a web you're the Spiderman
Sling us a web tonight
'Cause we all sure could use us a hero now
We think that you'll do alright
(ends with harmonica and piano)
and avoidance etc?-=-
My first thought was that if you haven't heard Weird Al's song about
Spiderman, you should. It's a parody of Billy Joel's "piano man."
You can get it from iTunes for 99 cents (or whatever that is in
wherever you are).
The lyrics are
Weird Al Yankovic - Spiderman Lyrics
(Parody of "Piano Man" by Billy Joel)
Poor Peter Parker was pitiful
Couldn't have been any shier
Mary Jane still wouldn't notice him
Even if his hair was on fire
But then one day he went to that science lab
That mutated spider came down
Oh and now Peter crawls over everyone's walls
And he's swingin' all over town
La la la didy dah
La la lily da da dum
Sling us a web you're the Spiderman
Sling us a web tonight
'Cause we're all in the mood for a hero now
And there's evil-doers to fight
Now Harry the rich kid's a friend of his
Who horns in on Mary Jane
But to his great surprise
It seems she prefers guys
Who can kiss upsidedown in the rain
"With great power comes great responsibility"
That's the catch phrase of old Uncle Ben
If you missed it, don't worry they'll say the line
Again and again and again
La la la didy dah
La la didy da da dum
Now Norman's a billionaire scientist
Who never had time for his son
And then somethin' went screwy
And before you knew, he
was trying to kill everyone
Then he'd ridin' around on that glider-thing
And he'd throw in that weird pumpkin bomb
Yes, he's wearin' that dumb Power Rangers mask
But he's scarier without it on
Sling us a web you're the Spiderman
Sling us a web tonight
'Cause you're brave and you're strong and so limber now
But where'd you come up with those tights
It's a pretty sad day at the funeral
Norman Osbourne has bitten the dust
And I heard Harry said he wants Spiderman dead
Ah but his buddy Pete he can trust
Oh and M.J. is all hot for Peter now
Ah but Peter he just shuts her down
Mary Jane don't you cry, you can give it a try
Again when the sequel comes around
La la la didy dah
La la didy da da dum
Sling us a web you're the Spiderman
Sling us a web tonight
'Cause we all sure could use us a hero now
We think that you'll do alright
(ends with harmonica and piano)
riasplace3
> When I read the definition I saw it as making the better choice.wrong.
> Seeing two things and making the worse/wrong choice isn't virtuous.
>
> Seeing hungry children and doing nothing would be choosing the
> It's not about avoiding other people's "wrong," it's about notI'll chew on this awhile, I think. I discussed it with Daddy today,
> creating some of your own. (I think. As I interpretted it is was.)
>
> Sandra
and found this interesting...just thinking of who I liked better, I
probably would've said Superman, but looking closer, after typing all
that out, it certainly seemed more like a Batman thing. Daddy said
the same thing, I asked him who he preferred, and he said Superman,
then after we had talked about it, he was thinking more toward
Batman.
Here's my world-changing question, though. HOW does Superman get
that little curl on his forehead when he changes from Clark Kent?
Last thing he does before he comes out of the phone booth is lick his
finger and twist that little bit of hair?
That's what I want to know.
; )
Ria
Schuyler
I went all comic book geek on this. I think I like Animal Man best. Of the
two of them I dislike Batman the least. And a lot of that has to do with
Frank Miller's portrayal of Batman as a very conservative vigilante. What
about the Sandman? Can I prefer him, even though it was a multiple choice
and not an essay?
Oh, what about Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad? I really like Milk
and Cheese.(http://www.houseoffun.com/milkandcheese/gallery.html)
I think really that means that before I ever were to be virtuous or fight
versus avoid wrong I would get trapped in my own over analysis of the
situation.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
two of them I dislike Batman the least. And a lot of that has to do with
Frank Miller's portrayal of Batman as a very conservative vigilante. What
about the Sandman? Can I prefer him, even though it was a multiple choice
and not an essay?
Oh, what about Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad? I really like Milk
and Cheese.(http://www.houseoffun.com/milkandcheese/gallery.html)
I think really that means that before I ever were to be virtuous or fight
versus avoid wrong I would get trapped in my own over analysis of the
situation.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
> His response to that was "I bet you like Superman better than
> Batman." It's true, I do.
>
> He said a study had shown that passive people liked Superman better,
> and Batman fans tended to want to do something to solve other
> people's problems. Well... I do like Superman, but I kinda feel
> that I'm an other-people's-problem-solver, too, to the point that
> some who know me best will preface a story with "I don't want you to
> do anything, but..." or "I don't want this fixed, I just want advice."
[email protected]
>>Oh, what about Milk and Cheese, Dairy Products Gone Bad? I really like Milkand Cheese.(http://www.houseoffun.com/milkandcheese/gallery.html)
I've never seen those! Dairy Products Gone Bad, heh, heh...
As for me, I *loved* "The Tick" and his sidekick "Arthur" dressed like a moth.
I looked it up on Wikipedia, because I remember The Tick knew an assortment of odd superheroes. The one I liked best was "Die Fledermaus" because when I was 11, a friend of mine used to draw a version of Batman and called him "Die Fledermausman". That's how we passed the time in math class (taught by a man who could not understand why we couldn't "get" math - umm, because you made it so boring that even the math whiz had to draw German batpeople?)
I looked down the site and found that Patrick Warburton was cast in the live-action TV show The Tick (which I never saw) and when I googled *him*, he is drawn as Superman on a Superman art site!
So...after all that, I'd pick Batman, given the choice <g>. I couldn't wait to get home to see the live-action Batman with Adam West and Burt (Holy Animal Superheroes, Batman!) Ward, once upon a time.
>>I think really that means that before I ever were to be virtuous or fightversus avoid wrong I would get trapped in my own over analysis of the
situation.
Yup. Me, too. And I'd be too busy reminiscing and googling and snopes-checking and figuring out lyrics to do anything about anything <g>.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Wiley
--- In [email protected], "Schuyler" <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
like Oracle. Batman doesn't need her nearly as much as he once did...I'm sure the
batphone has internet access now. But I still like Oracle best, I think, of all the
superheroes. Her resilience, and the way she retained her sense of humor even after the
Joker crippled her.
I think you could make a case that Batman was an unschooler of sorts...
Melissa in San Diego, mom of 5, wife of former Gotham Adventures writer, the "other"
Scott Peterson (one of *many* other Scott Petersons, actually) :)
--
www.melissawiley.net
liltinghouse.clubmom.com
>--------
> I went all comic book geek on this. I think I like Animal Man best. Of the
> two of them I dislike Batman the least. And a lot of that has to do with
> Frank Miller's portrayal of Batman as a very conservative vigilante. What
> about the Sandman? Can I prefer him, even though it was a multiple choice
> and not an essay?
> I think really that means that before I ever were to be virtuous or fightOoh, that really is like the Sandman, then. And Robin B. sounds like Oracle--
> versus avoid wrong I would get trapped in my own over analysis of the
> situation.
>
>Yup. Me, too. And I'd be too busy reminiscing and googling and snopes-checking andI have joked to my husband, the comic-book writer & editor, that Google has made us ALL
>figuring out lyrics to do anything about anything <g>.
>Robin B.
like Oracle. Batman doesn't need her nearly as much as he once did...I'm sure the
batphone has internet access now. But I still like Oracle best, I think, of all the
superheroes. Her resilience, and the way she retained her sense of humor even after the
Joker crippled her.
I think you could make a case that Batman was an unschooler of sorts...
Melissa in San Diego, mom of 5, wife of former Gotham Adventures writer, the "other"
Scott Peterson (one of *many* other Scott Petersons, actually) :)
--
www.melissawiley.net
liltinghouse.clubmom.com
diana jenner
On 7/3/07, Melissa Wiley <thebonnyglen@...> wrote:
He's our Scooty ;)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>By way of bizarre coincidences, SuperCoolBoyfriend is also Scott Peterson :)
> -
> Melissa in San Diego, mom of 5, wife of former Gotham Adventures writer,
> the "other"
> Scott Peterson (one of *many* other Scott Petersons, actually) :)
> --
> www.melissawiley.net
> liltinghouse.clubmom.com
>
> _
>
>
>
>
He's our Scooty ;)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]