waiting for someone else to suggest something
Sandra Dodd
The bulk of the private e-mail I've been extracting topic-parts from,
quoted between the two lines
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My daughter ( 12 and never been to school ) still asks me what is
happening today instead of making her day happen .When I suggest an
activity she likes the idea... but is not the one to think of it
first... like call a friend over or go out to play tennis. She is
used to having choices offered to her instead of knowing that she has
ALL the choices available. That, I'm sure, is my fault as the one who
has always been the leader of the pack. Wanna go for a bike ride? "
sure ".
I know she loves to go to the pool club but she does not ask but
rather says OK when I ask her if she would like to call a friend and
head over to the pool.
Or when I say, wanna play tennis.... she says OK. ...Not usually
thinking of it for herself. If I say nothing- she DOES use the
computer to play Runescape but I know she loves hunting for mushrooms
and bike riding and swimming and hanging out at the river. It
appears that she is waiting for those activities to happen...
not making them happen.
So... MY thoughts revert to .. Well, I guess she really doesn't want
to do these things that badly or she would have asked.
I'm not sure how to help her to feel empowered.. Have I totally
messed her up? Can this be remedied? Can this be un- done?
������������������������������
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
quoted between the two lines
�������������������������
My daughter ( 12 and never been to school ) still asks me what is
happening today instead of making her day happen .When I suggest an
activity she likes the idea... but is not the one to think of it
first... like call a friend over or go out to play tennis. She is
used to having choices offered to her instead of knowing that she has
ALL the choices available. That, I'm sure, is my fault as the one who
has always been the leader of the pack. Wanna go for a bike ride? "
sure ".
I know she loves to go to the pool club but she does not ask but
rather says OK when I ask her if she would like to call a friend and
head over to the pool.
Or when I say, wanna play tennis.... she says OK. ...Not usually
thinking of it for herself. If I say nothing- she DOES use the
computer to play Runescape but I know she loves hunting for mushrooms
and bike riding and swimming and hanging out at the river. It
appears that she is waiting for those activities to happen...
not making them happen.
So... MY thoughts revert to .. Well, I guess she really doesn't want
to do these things that badly or she would have asked.
I'm not sure how to help her to feel empowered.. Have I totally
messed her up? Can this be remedied? Can this be un- done?
������������������������������
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenstarc4
>has
> My daughter ( 12 and never been to school ) still asks me what is
> happening today instead of making her day happen .When I suggest an
> activity she likes the idea... but is not the one to think of it
> first... like call a friend over or go out to play tennis. She is
> used to having choices offered to her instead of knowing that she
> ALL the choices available.I'm not sure that it is necessarily an issue with control. My 13 yo
dd, who can decide for herself what to do, doesn't sometimes. The
fact is, I do plan stuff for my kids. I ask them first if it is
something they are interested in, then I make a plan. I call the
friends for them. If I left it up to my 13 yo dd, she wouldn't do
it. It would feel overwhelming to her. For now, she wants me to do
it.
Sometimes she requests things to do, and I implement them. I'm sure
it depends on the child and age, but some kids are happy to let
others do it for them and go along with the plan if it sounds fun. I
know what my kids like and plan accordingly. I feel that this is a
huge part of my job as an unschooling parent, to make plans and
provide interesting activities for my kids without them instigating
it always.
I don't think kids know all the options, I know I don't, and I'm an
adult! I really think kids will naturally take over their own lives
bit by bit as they get older. You'll see it happening. Until then,
just do it for them. Offer things up without expectations.
hmsdragonfly
> My daughter ( 12 and never been to school ) still asks me what isI think there's no hurry! And I don't think you need a black-or-
> happening today instead of making her day happen...
white solution.
But maybe you need more days where you let things slide, just
letting her play Runescape and craft her own day. We have lots --
LOTS -- of days where there's no **activity for the day**. Instead,
we just hang out. Lots happens, lots of activities take place, but
there's not an instigator for any of it. It just flows. A tremendous
amount of fun and learning and family bonding time happens on those
mellow days.
And remember that some people are laid back and happy to go with
other people's flow. This is not a bad thing! The world would be
even more frenetic if *everybody* were trying to drive! :-)
And remember that your daughter will change. She might always be
that terrific friend who's always ready to jump up and do the fun
things that you suggest, but you will probably see more and more
independence as she grows into womanhood.
df
tyra beaulieu
did that make you nervous in the beginning? i am really having a hard time getting past the workbooks etc. although at this stage my 7 yo really likes them but he dosen't initiate anything like that. i just get nervous. in the back of my head he is going to grow up completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame but me.
tyra
hmsdragonfly <hmsdragonfly@...> wrote:
white solution.
But maybe you need more days where you let things slide, just
letting her play Runescape and craft her own day. We have lots --
LOTS -- of days where there's no **activity for the day**. Instead,
we just hang out. Lots happens, lots of activities take place, but
there's not an instigator for any of it. It just flows. A tremendous
amount of fun and learning and family bonding time happens on those
mellow days.
And remember that some people are laid back and happy to go with
other people's flow. This is not a bad thing! The world would be
even more frenetic if *everybody* were trying to drive! :-)
And remember that your daughter will change. She might always be
that terrific friend who's always ready to jump up and do the fun
things that you suggest, but you will probably see more and more
independence as she grows into womanhood.
df
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tyra
hmsdragonfly <hmsdragonfly@...> wrote:
> My daughter ( 12 and never been to school ) still asks me what isI think there's no hurry! And I don't think you need a black-or-
> happening today instead of making her day happen...
white solution.
But maybe you need more days where you let things slide, just
letting her play Runescape and craft her own day. We have lots --
LOTS -- of days where there's no **activity for the day**. Instead,
we just hang out. Lots happens, lots of activities take place, but
there's not an instigator for any of it. It just flows. A tremendous
amount of fun and learning and family bonding time happens on those
mellow days.
And remember that some people are laid back and happy to go with
other people's flow. This is not a bad thing! The world would be
even more frenetic if *everybody* were trying to drive! :-)
And remember that your daughter will change. She might always be
that terrific friend who's always ready to jump up and do the fun
things that you suggest, but you will probably see more and more
independence as she grows into womanhood.
df
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-did that make you nervous in the beginning? i am really having a
hard time getting past the workbooks etc. although at this stage my 7
yo really likes them but he dosen't initiate anything like that. i
just get nervous. in the back of my head he is going to grow up
completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame
but me.
tyra-=-
Luckily, he's not growing up in the back of your head. He's growing
up within his own mind and body. Don't mess up his potential with
workbooks.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/reading especially http://sandradodd.com/r/
deeper
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hard time getting past the workbooks etc. although at this stage my 7
yo really likes them but he dosen't initiate anything like that. i
just get nervous. in the back of my head he is going to grow up
completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame
but me.
tyra-=-
Luckily, he's not growing up in the back of your head. He's growing
up within his own mind and body. Don't mess up his potential with
workbooks.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/reading especially http://sandradodd.com/r/
deeper
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], tyra beaulieu <tyralyn14@...>
wrote:
completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame
but me.
My eight year old son, who has not touched a workbook since the
first week he came to live with me was hanging out yesterday. Dh had
emptied his pockets and DS says, " Dad has six dollars and fifty
cents." I reply,"Really?" He says, "Yep, he has 26 quarters."
That came from him buying stuff at a real store, with real money. It
came from asking what he wanted to know and figuring it out.
Real learning happens;]
All is well.
Kathleen
wrote:
>i just get nervous. in the back of my head he is going to grow up
completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame
but me.
My eight year old son, who has not touched a workbook since the
first week he came to live with me was hanging out yesterday. Dh had
emptied his pockets and DS says, " Dad has six dollars and fifty
cents." I reply,"Really?" He says, "Yep, he has 26 quarters."
That came from him buying stuff at a real store, with real money. It
came from asking what he wanted to know and figuring it out.
Real learning happens;]
All is well.
Kathleen
hmsdragonfly
--- In [email protected], tyra beaulieu <tyralyn14@...>
wrote:
What I actually was when we started was terrified. But it was pointed
out to me (and this is important) that Formal Schooling Does Not
Guarantee Education or Happiness. If you keep pushing schoolish
stuff, you run a huge risk of having a kid who thinks learning is a
chore. It's not! It's a joy! It's an adventure! It's fun!
Some things to consider:
* Unschooling mom and engineer Mary Lewis, who is now a math tutor
for math-phobic adults who are returning to school, said (roughly)
that all the math kids have shoved down their throats (okay, that
part is my words) in school can be learned in 3 to 5 months when the
learner is ready and motivated. That's more than 6 YEARS of
instruction that is simply not necessary. Oy!
* A whole lot of people come out of school unable to read, write, do
math, think for themselves, be happy.
* If you check out the typical school curriculum, especially for kids
as young as yours, you will not be impressed. Most of this stuff kids
could not avoid learning. They live on the planet, after all!
http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?curriculum
* A life spent preparing for what one *might* want is a life wasted.
Let your kids prepare and experience and have what they *do* want
instead!
df
wrote:
>Nervous? Me? Never! (That's more than a little facetious!)
> did that make you nervous in the beginning? i am really having a
> hard time getting past the workbooks etc. although at this stage my
> 7 yo really likes them but he dosen't initiate anything like that.
> i just get nervous. in the back of my head he is going to grow up
> completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame
> but me.
> tyra
What I actually was when we started was terrified. But it was pointed
out to me (and this is important) that Formal Schooling Does Not
Guarantee Education or Happiness. If you keep pushing schoolish
stuff, you run a huge risk of having a kid who thinks learning is a
chore. It's not! It's a joy! It's an adventure! It's fun!
Some things to consider:
* Unschooling mom and engineer Mary Lewis, who is now a math tutor
for math-phobic adults who are returning to school, said (roughly)
that all the math kids have shoved down their throats (okay, that
part is my words) in school can be learned in 3 to 5 months when the
learner is ready and motivated. That's more than 6 YEARS of
instruction that is simply not necessary. Oy!
* A whole lot of people come out of school unable to read, write, do
math, think for themselves, be happy.
* If you check out the typical school curriculum, especially for kids
as young as yours, you will not be impressed. Most of this stuff kids
could not avoid learning. They live on the planet, after all!
http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?curriculum
* A life spent preparing for what one *might* want is a life wasted.
Let your kids prepare and experience and have what they *do* want
instead!
df
tyra beaulieu
thanks. i agree with the terrified part. it is just reassuring to hear other people with the same thoughts.
thanks, tyra
hmsdragonfly <hmsdragonfly@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], tyra beaulieu <tyralyn14@...>
wrote:
What I actually was when we started was terrified. But it was pointed
out to me (and this is important) that Formal Schooling Does Not
Guarantee Education or Happiness. If you keep pushing schoolish
stuff, you run a huge risk of having a kid who thinks learning is a
chore. It's not! It's a joy! It's an adventure! It's fun!
Some things to consider:
* Unschooling mom and engineer Mary Lewis, who is now a math tutor
for math-phobic adults who are returning to school, said (roughly)
that all the math kids have shoved down their throats (okay, that
part is my words) in school can be learned in 3 to 5 months when the
learner is ready and motivated. That's more than 6 YEARS of
instruction that is simply not necessary. Oy!
* A whole lot of people come out of school unable to read, write, do
math, think for themselves, be happy.
* If you check out the typical school curriculum, especially for kids
as young as yours, you will not be impressed. Most of this stuff kids
could not avoid learning. They live on the planet, after all!
http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?curriculum
* A life spent preparing for what one *might* want is a life wasted.
Let your kids prepare and experience and have what they *do* want
instead!
df
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thanks, tyra
hmsdragonfly <hmsdragonfly@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], tyra beaulieu <tyralyn14@...>
wrote:
>Nervous? Me? Never! (That's more than a little facetious!)
> did that make you nervous in the beginning? i am really having a
> hard time getting past the workbooks etc. although at this stage my
> 7 yo really likes them but he dosen't initiate anything like that.
> i just get nervous. in the back of my head he is going to grow up
> completely uneducated, no reading, math skills and no one to blame
> but me.
> tyra
What I actually was when we started was terrified. But it was pointed
out to me (and this is important) that Formal Schooling Does Not
Guarantee Education or Happiness. If you keep pushing schoolish
stuff, you run a huge risk of having a kid who thinks learning is a
chore. It's not! It's a joy! It's an adventure! It's fun!
Some things to consider:
* Unschooling mom and engineer Mary Lewis, who is now a math tutor
for math-phobic adults who are returning to school, said (roughly)
that all the math kids have shoved down their throats (okay, that
part is my words) in school can be learned in 3 to 5 months when the
learner is ready and motivated. That's more than 6 YEARS of
instruction that is simply not necessary. Oy!
* A whole lot of people come out of school unable to read, write, do
math, think for themselves, be happy.
* If you check out the typical school curriculum, especially for kids
as young as yours, you will not be impressed. Most of this stuff kids
could not avoid learning. They live on the planet, after all!
http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?curriculum
* A life spent preparing for what one *might* want is a life wasted.
Let your kids prepare and experience and have what they *do* want
instead!
df
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-She is
used to having choices offered to her instead of knowing that she has
ALL the choices available. -=-
When you have company over and you ask them if they'd like something
to drink, do you tell them what their choices are?
Nobody has ALL choices available. I'd like to have lunch in York, if
so, and be back by 3:00.
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Pam Sorooshian wrote something really good about creating an
unschooling environment.
Unschooled kids aren't like lab rats we observe and record notes on.
They're people we live with in a stimulating environment. The mom
needs to make sure there's a stimulating environment, with options
and new stuff.
-=If I say nothing- she DOES use the
computer to play Runescape but I know she loves hunting for mushrooms
and bike riding and swimming and hanging out at the river. It
appears that she is waiting for those activities to happen...
not making them happen.
-=-
She loves Runescape too, I guess. Do you think hanging out at the
river is inherently better than sitting in air-conditioned bug-free
shade playing Runescape? It's summer. Rivers can be kind of horrible.
Do you, the mom, love hunting for mushrooms and swimming?
I'm only asking because some parents have a checklist of things they
think their kids should be doing, because kids should do those
things, but they're not things the mom would voluntarily do herself.
-=-Well, I guess she really doesn't want
to do these things that badly or she would have asked.-=-
Maybe something she would love to do hasn't even been suggested yet.
Maybe she would love to learn to change a tire. Maybe she would love
to go on an overnight trip with you to a museum 300 miles away, stay
in a motel, eat something she's never had before.
-=-I'm not sure how to help her to feel empowered.. -=-
How long have you been unschooling? If only a short time, her
empowerment might be being expressed by "doing nothing." When
nothing has been a sin, and the religion changes, "nothing" becomes
wonderful.
-=-Have I totally messed her up?-=-
Maybe, but not permanently.
-=-Can this be remedied? Can this be un- done?-=-
Yes, but the work and the change are in you, much more than in her.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra
used to having choices offered to her instead of knowing that she has
ALL the choices available. -=-
When you have company over and you ask them if they'd like something
to drink, do you tell them what their choices are?
Nobody has ALL choices available. I'd like to have lunch in York, if
so, and be back by 3:00.
http://sandradodd.com/nest
Pam Sorooshian wrote something really good about creating an
unschooling environment.
Unschooled kids aren't like lab rats we observe and record notes on.
They're people we live with in a stimulating environment. The mom
needs to make sure there's a stimulating environment, with options
and new stuff.
-=If I say nothing- she DOES use the
computer to play Runescape but I know she loves hunting for mushrooms
and bike riding and swimming and hanging out at the river. It
appears that she is waiting for those activities to happen...
not making them happen.
-=-
She loves Runescape too, I guess. Do you think hanging out at the
river is inherently better than sitting in air-conditioned bug-free
shade playing Runescape? It's summer. Rivers can be kind of horrible.
Do you, the mom, love hunting for mushrooms and swimming?
I'm only asking because some parents have a checklist of things they
think their kids should be doing, because kids should do those
things, but they're not things the mom would voluntarily do herself.
-=-Well, I guess she really doesn't want
to do these things that badly or she would have asked.-=-
Maybe something she would love to do hasn't even been suggested yet.
Maybe she would love to learn to change a tire. Maybe she would love
to go on an overnight trip with you to a museum 300 miles away, stay
in a motel, eat something she's never had before.
-=-I'm not sure how to help her to feel empowered.. -=-
How long have you been unschooling? If only a short time, her
empowerment might be being expressed by "doing nothing." When
nothing has been a sin, and the religion changes, "nothing" becomes
wonderful.
-=-Have I totally messed her up?-=-
Maybe, but not permanently.
-=-Can this be remedied? Can this be un- done?-=-
Yes, but the work and the change are in you, much more than in her.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra
Fetteroll
> ItThis could very well just be personality. There are a lot of things I
> appears that she is waiting for those activities to happen...
> not making them happen.
enjoy doing but don't unless someone else suggests them.
Partly because it takes a lot of energy to get moving on something
and it's a lot easier to do something at home. For people who are
even keeled like me, there's rarely a time when I feel ""Wow! I'd
love to do that!" It's more that the world is full of interesting
things I could do so why go to the trouble of picking one that will
take more work than another that's right in front of me.
Partly it's because I enjoy going along with others. But, again, not
worth the trouble to plan things out.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenstarc4
> This could very well just be personality. There are a lot of thingsI
> enjoy doing but don't unless someone else suggests them.Joyce, you just described my Chamille to a "T"! I've never really
>
> Partly because it takes a lot of energy to get moving on something
> and it's a lot easier to do something at home. For people who are
> even keeled like me, there's rarely a time when I feel ""Wow! I'd
> love to do that!" It's more that the world is full of interesting
> things I could do so why go to the trouble of picking one that will
> take more work than another that's right in front of me.
>
> Partly it's because I enjoy going along with others. But, again, not
> worth the trouble to plan things out.
>
> Joyce
>
heard it put that way, but there you go and put it out there and it
rings true true true!