Gaming and the Bible Belt
[email protected]
Dear Julie,
Having spent some younger years amid Bible Belters, I'd say it really depends
on YOUR particular community. Some are more accepting of things than others.
FI, if they don't do Halloween there, it's a big clue that they may have
objections to any mention of magic, sorcery, otherworldly beings (gnomes,
fairies, etc.) and the like. This would leave out a lot of the magic-based
fantasy games (including D&D and the collectable card games Magic, Legend of
the Five Rings and the new Harry Potter stuff). Some have objections to
fantasy and imaginative stuff altogether. Some have objections to any
war-like content. Some object to the use of dice or cards in any context.
Some don't care as long as you don't cuss, chaw or drink while you're doing
it. I guess you all would need to make the call on how far you are willing to
go to cater to their beliefs.
There are a number of decent history-based games like Civilization, History
of the World (now out of print, but an excellent game if you can find it),
Diplomacy, Settlers of Catan, Shogun (I think now called Samurai Sword, not
sure), Broadsides and Boarding Parties, Axis and Allies, Kingmaker (I think),
etc. These are not necessarily role-playing, more strategic/tactical, but
role-playing elements can be added. And of course, all the Avalon Hill games
like Panzer Blitz, etc.
Two easy-to-learn card games (although they're cards, and you may run into
trouble with that unless you can explain it's more like Uno than gambling ;^)
are "Ivanhoe" (by GMT Games) and "Great Dalmuti" (I think by Wizards of the
Coast, although that's the only "wizard" content ;^). Both of these can
include a good deal of roleplaying in the course of play and have the
advantage of appealing to and being suitable for a broad range of ages. Both
also have really excellent art and have stimulated a lot of
research/discussion in our family.
Another historical route that involves research and cool art is miniatures
wargaming -- little scale armies based on historical armies -- which veteran
gamers often classify under the title "Ancients." One of the easiest and
satisfying (i.e., games don't have to drag on for days) systems I've run into
is DBA (De Bellis Antiquitatis). Players research and paint their figures (or
can buy them painted, natch) and then pit the armies against one another
under a set of easily-grasped rules. This game, like Risk, involves dice, so
again, there may be some resistance in your community even though this isn't
directly gambling. There are a lot of great websites online devoted to this
game, but one of my favourites is my friend's:
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba.html -- there is also an online version
of DBA (called DBAOL ;^) which is really excellent: www.dbaol.com -- also
various clubs. If you have any DBA questions, I know that any of the links
you can find from the Kuijt address above will win you a tonne of encouraging
info, and the maintainers of the websites will happily talk your ears off
about it. :^)
Pendragon is a D&D alternate which is (roughly) based in Arthurian legend.
Supposedly less hack-and-slash, more roleplaying. Ditto Prince Valiant, which
is set against the background of the comic strip. Both emphasize playing the
character of chivalrous knight. Heroes and Champions are both roleplaying
games that are based on comic book superheroes. Again, fantasy, but maybe
more palatable... One future-based game is Traveller; there are others of
this ilk.
Ooo! I just remembered a couple of somewhat-reality-based roleplaying games
we used to play -- one was called Boot Hill, and was set in the Wild West.
Still involved killing, however. But no magic. One bullet could kill. There
was another one that was technology-based -- involved making up gee-whiz
contraptions like Q does in James Bond movies and having characters "learn"
skills. I think it was called Top Secret. It was fantasy in the same way all
spy thrillers are, but not magic. Again, prolly involved killing though.
All killing-based games can be converted to defeating- or stunning-games, we
discovered. Just takes imagination and willingness to fiddle with words.
There's a roleplaying game called Toon (or maybe Toons?) where you don't die,
just get hit in the face w/ pies, etc.
And if all else fails, your kids can make up their own roleplaying game,
perhaps based on Narnia (admittedly very otherworldly, but often accepted
where others are not because of C.S. Lewis & underlying Christian content of
series) or Pilgrim's Progress. Or convert D&D to be reality-based. Instead of
encountering goblins, perhaps a very bad headache? Do you have aspirin along?
No? Well, you succumb! :^D Dragons might be a loss of faith -- which can be
fought off by quoting the right bible verse! OK, so perhaps it looks like I'm
reaching here. But my brother and I honestly went down paths like these
sometimes in order to play with kids in our community. I don't know how far
you guys are willing to go to engage those around you in play. Some of the
best games we played were ones we made up ourselves (once you figure out how
to develop a fair "universe" [i.e., system of play], possibilities are
endless).
I know I'm leaving out vast piles of obvious suggestions I should be making,
but I'd better stop now before this becomes a novel.
Peace,
Wynn
Having spent some younger years amid Bible Belters, I'd say it really depends
on YOUR particular community. Some are more accepting of things than others.
FI, if they don't do Halloween there, it's a big clue that they may have
objections to any mention of magic, sorcery, otherworldly beings (gnomes,
fairies, etc.) and the like. This would leave out a lot of the magic-based
fantasy games (including D&D and the collectable card games Magic, Legend of
the Five Rings and the new Harry Potter stuff). Some have objections to
fantasy and imaginative stuff altogether. Some have objections to any
war-like content. Some object to the use of dice or cards in any context.
Some don't care as long as you don't cuss, chaw or drink while you're doing
it. I guess you all would need to make the call on how far you are willing to
go to cater to their beliefs.
There are a number of decent history-based games like Civilization, History
of the World (now out of print, but an excellent game if you can find it),
Diplomacy, Settlers of Catan, Shogun (I think now called Samurai Sword, not
sure), Broadsides and Boarding Parties, Axis and Allies, Kingmaker (I think),
etc. These are not necessarily role-playing, more strategic/tactical, but
role-playing elements can be added. And of course, all the Avalon Hill games
like Panzer Blitz, etc.
Two easy-to-learn card games (although they're cards, and you may run into
trouble with that unless you can explain it's more like Uno than gambling ;^)
are "Ivanhoe" (by GMT Games) and "Great Dalmuti" (I think by Wizards of the
Coast, although that's the only "wizard" content ;^). Both of these can
include a good deal of roleplaying in the course of play and have the
advantage of appealing to and being suitable for a broad range of ages. Both
also have really excellent art and have stimulated a lot of
research/discussion in our family.
Another historical route that involves research and cool art is miniatures
wargaming -- little scale armies based on historical armies -- which veteran
gamers often classify under the title "Ancients." One of the easiest and
satisfying (i.e., games don't have to drag on for days) systems I've run into
is DBA (De Bellis Antiquitatis). Players research and paint their figures (or
can buy them painted, natch) and then pit the armies against one another
under a set of easily-grasped rules. This game, like Risk, involves dice, so
again, there may be some resistance in your community even though this isn't
directly gambling. There are a lot of great websites online devoted to this
game, but one of my favourites is my friend's:
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba.html -- there is also an online version
of DBA (called DBAOL ;^) which is really excellent: www.dbaol.com -- also
various clubs. If you have any DBA questions, I know that any of the links
you can find from the Kuijt address above will win you a tonne of encouraging
info, and the maintainers of the websites will happily talk your ears off
about it. :^)
Pendragon is a D&D alternate which is (roughly) based in Arthurian legend.
Supposedly less hack-and-slash, more roleplaying. Ditto Prince Valiant, which
is set against the background of the comic strip. Both emphasize playing the
character of chivalrous knight. Heroes and Champions are both roleplaying
games that are based on comic book superheroes. Again, fantasy, but maybe
more palatable... One future-based game is Traveller; there are others of
this ilk.
Ooo! I just remembered a couple of somewhat-reality-based roleplaying games
we used to play -- one was called Boot Hill, and was set in the Wild West.
Still involved killing, however. But no magic. One bullet could kill. There
was another one that was technology-based -- involved making up gee-whiz
contraptions like Q does in James Bond movies and having characters "learn"
skills. I think it was called Top Secret. It was fantasy in the same way all
spy thrillers are, but not magic. Again, prolly involved killing though.
All killing-based games can be converted to defeating- or stunning-games, we
discovered. Just takes imagination and willingness to fiddle with words.
There's a roleplaying game called Toon (or maybe Toons?) where you don't die,
just get hit in the face w/ pies, etc.
And if all else fails, your kids can make up their own roleplaying game,
perhaps based on Narnia (admittedly very otherworldly, but often accepted
where others are not because of C.S. Lewis & underlying Christian content of
series) or Pilgrim's Progress. Or convert D&D to be reality-based. Instead of
encountering goblins, perhaps a very bad headache? Do you have aspirin along?
No? Well, you succumb! :^D Dragons might be a loss of faith -- which can be
fought off by quoting the right bible verse! OK, so perhaps it looks like I'm
reaching here. But my brother and I honestly went down paths like these
sometimes in order to play with kids in our community. I don't know how far
you guys are willing to go to engage those around you in play. Some of the
best games we played were ones we made up ourselves (once you figure out how
to develop a fair "universe" [i.e., system of play], possibilities are
endless).
I know I'm leaving out vast piles of obvious suggestions I should be making,
but I'd better stop now before this becomes a novel.
Peace,
Wynn
KT
> I know I'm leaving out vast piles of obvious suggestions I should beHa! And I was just thinking you oughta' write a book!
> making,
> but I'd better stop now before this becomes a novel.
Karen
[email protected]
wow, you certainly did come up with some great ideas. I did not answer
because I think of anything. :(
Our homeschool groups here are made up of the "Halloween is sinful"
Christians. I am not putting anyone down if this is the way they believe I
just am not sure what to call this sect. When we went to pe classes for a
while the kids and I were afraid to say much of anything to anyone because we
never knew what was accepted and by whom. To some tv was not acceptable. To
others tv was ok but only videos. To many the internet was a sin. My daughter
was loved Twain then and we were told that his books should be burned. Once I
was standing there looking at a catalog of posters of Native Americans and a
lady walked up and gave me a lecture on the "dirty heathens." It was at this
time the kids and I decided that the pe classes were not worth it. The kids
took up bmx racing and we went to the track from then on instead of pe. It
was better for us to move on than to try and fit in. It is hard to always
bite ones tongue to get along all the time. I hope you have better luck than
we did.
There certainly have been a lot of good ideas here.
Candace
because I think of anything. :(
Our homeschool groups here are made up of the "Halloween is sinful"
Christians. I am not putting anyone down if this is the way they believe I
just am not sure what to call this sect. When we went to pe classes for a
while the kids and I were afraid to say much of anything to anyone because we
never knew what was accepted and by whom. To some tv was not acceptable. To
others tv was ok but only videos. To many the internet was a sin. My daughter
was loved Twain then and we were told that his books should be burned. Once I
was standing there looking at a catalog of posters of Native Americans and a
lady walked up and gave me a lecture on the "dirty heathens." It was at this
time the kids and I decided that the pe classes were not worth it. The kids
took up bmx racing and we went to the track from then on instead of pe. It
was better for us to move on than to try and fit in. It is hard to always
bite ones tongue to get along all the time. I hope you have better luck than
we did.
There certainly have been a lot of good ideas here.
Candace
Tia Leschke
At 09:02 AM 06/12/01 -0600, you wrote:
involve some (but not a huge amount) of reading and maybe an element of
history. He likes Age of Empires and Sim City, but I suspect it's because
he can get through them without reading. I suspect he could get a lot more
out of those games if he did read all the messages and stuff. I know I
could learn to play them myself and then he'd see more possibilities, but
I'm just not a game player.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
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> > I know I'm leaving out vast piles of obvious suggestions I should beYeah. Don't stop now. <g> I'm looking for computer games for my son that
> > making,
> > but I'd better stop now before this becomes a novel.
>
>
>Ha! And I was just thinking you oughta' write a book!
involve some (but not a huge amount) of reading and maybe an element of
history. He likes Age of Empires and Sim City, but I suspect it's because
he can get through them without reading. I suspect he could get a lot more
out of those games if he did read all the messages and stuff. I know I
could learn to play them myself and then he'd see more possibilities, but
I'm just not a game player.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
----------
---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/6/2001 6:45:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Otterspur@... writes:
hours, very intently, and mine came and told me, "We HAVE to get that game,
it is so cool!"
I don't really have any idea what it is about - but she described it as a
more elegant Risk game - whatever that means <G>.
Pam Sorooshian
<A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/</A>
<A HREF="http://nhen.org/">National Home Education Network
http://www.nhen.org</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Otterspur@... writes:
>Kids were playing this at my house last night - they played for several
hours, very intently, and mine came and told me, "We HAVE to get that game,
it is so cool!"
I don't really have any idea what it is about - but she described it as a
more elegant Risk game - whatever that means <G>.
Pam Sorooshian
<A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/</A>
<A HREF="http://nhen.org/">National Home Education Network
http://www.nhen.org</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
For some reason my post was cut up and not all of it went through. The game I
was talking about was "Settlers of Catan."
it is so cool!"
I don't really have any idea what it is about - but she described it as a
more elegant Risk game - whatever that means <G>.
<A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/</A>
<A HREF="http://nhen.org/">National Home Education Networkhttp://www.nhen.org</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
was talking about was "Settlers of Catan."
>>Kids were playing this at my house last night - they played for severalhours, very intently, and mine came and told me, "We HAVE to get that game,
it is so cool!"
I don't really have any idea what it is about - but she described it as a
more elegant Risk game - whatever that means <G>.
>>Pam Sorooshian
<A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/</A>
<A HREF="http://nhen.org/">National Home Education Networkhttp://www.nhen.org</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cindy
Tia Leschke wrote:
starts out with one's civilization at the beginning city building level
and one develops a civilization, its technology, its military, etc.
You choose one of the existing Earth civilizations to build. I'm not
sure how many they have in this version. In Civ 2 they had about 40.
I hope Civ 3 is under the tree for me this year!
My DH and older son liked Europa Universalis. This goes for 300 years
and starts in 1492 - it involves settling and exploring the "New World".
Rob says it stays fairly accurate to history. For example no country
gets an explorer until the year that country actually did start exploring.
So Spain and Portugal are the only ones with explorers at the start.
Rob played Turkey and he said it was fascinating. The downside for him
was that it was slow - he played a lot of hours and still had only gotten
to the late 1500s! The second version of that game is out this fall too;
my older son wants it. I don't know what is different about this version.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>I really like the Civilization series. Civ 3 is new this fall. It
> At 09:02 AM 06/12/01 -0600, you wrote:
>
> > > I know I'm leaving out vast piles of obvious suggestions I should be
> > > making,
> > > but I'd better stop now before this becomes a novel.
> >
> >
> >Ha! And I was just thinking you oughta' write a book!
>
> Yeah. Don't stop now. <g> I'm looking for computer games for my son that
> involve some (but not a huge amount) of reading and maybe an element of
> history. He likes Age of Empires and Sim City, but I suspect it's because
> he can get through them without reading. I suspect he could get a lot more
> out of those games if he did read all the messages and stuff. I know I
> could learn to play them myself and then he'd see more possibilities, but
> I'm just not a game player.
> Tia
>
starts out with one's civilization at the beginning city building level
and one develops a civilization, its technology, its military, etc.
You choose one of the existing Earth civilizations to build. I'm not
sure how many they have in this version. In Civ 2 they had about 40.
I hope Civ 3 is under the tree for me this year!
My DH and older son liked Europa Universalis. This goes for 300 years
and starts in 1492 - it involves settling and exploring the "New World".
Rob says it stays fairly accurate to history. For example no country
gets an explorer until the year that country actually did start exploring.
So Spain and Portugal are the only ones with explorers at the start.
Rob played Turkey and he said it was fascinating. The downside for him
was that it was slow - he played a lot of hours and still had only gotten
to the late 1500s! The second version of that game is out this fall too;
my older son wants it. I don't know what is different about this version.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
[email protected]
After a couple of years of friends saying "You need to get this game," we finally did get Settlers of Catan. And the expansion set (so six can play). And Seafarers of Catan. And the expansion set. <g> I don't recommend getting it all at once, but I don't think whenever you do get it, you'll wish you'd gotten it sooner.
It can be easy or complex (as with most simple strategy games). The basic set involves resources and transportation, in very simple ways. It's an attractive game, too.
Sandra
It can be easy or complex (as with most simple strategy games). The basic set involves resources and transportation, in very simple ways. It's an attractive game, too.
Sandra
Karin
Speaking of computer games, my 10 yos really likes Microsoft Flight Simulator. We have 1998, & 2000 version. He may want to be a pilot when he grows up. It doesn't really have an element of history, but he is learning bunches about geography and also flying. Not only does he fly all over the US, but also all over the world. There are landmarks you can see when you fly over them. Yesterday he flew over the coliseum in Rome, Italy. The day before 9-11, he flew his cessna in between the world trade towers. How ironic and sad that the next day they were gone, just like that.
He also loves playing Age of Empires.
Karin
He also loves playing Age of Empires.
Karin
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Gaming and the Bible Belt
Yeah. Don't stop now. <g> I'm looking for computer games for my son that
involve some (but not a huge amount) of reading and maybe an element of
history. He likes Age of Empires and Sim City, but I suspect it's because
he can get through them without reading. I suspect he could get a lot more
out of those games if he did read all the messages and stuff. I know I
could learn to play them myself and then he'd see more possibilities, but
I'm just not a game player.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
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groundhoggirl
I've played that game. I thought it was wonderful Our friends come
down from College Station and all we do is play games. This one is
exceptional. Our family will get one soon.
Mimi
down from College Station and all we do is play games. This one is
exceptional. Our family will get one soon.
Mimi
On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 03:55 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> After a couple of years of friends saying "You need to get this game,"
> we finally did get Settlers of Catan. And the expansion set (so six
> can play). And Seafarers of Catan. And the expansion set. <g> I don't
> recommend getting it all at once, but I don't think whenever you do get
> it, you'll wish you'd gotten it sooner.
>
> It can be easy or complex (as with most simple strategy games). The
> basic set involves resources and transportation, in very simple ways.
> It's an attractive game, too.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cindy
SandraDodd@... wrote:
more games for our family - the children are 6 & 4.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>What skills are needed to play this game? I'm looking into getting
> After a couple of years of friends saying "You need to get this game," we finally did get Settlers of Catan. And the expansion set (so six can play). And Seafarers of Catan. And the expansion set. <g> I don't recommend getting it all at once, but I don't think whenever you do get it, you'll wish you'd gotten it sooner.
>
> It can be easy or complex (as with most simple strategy games). The basic set involves resources and transportation, in very simple ways. It's an attractive game, too.
>
> Sandra
>
more games for our family - the children are 6 & 4.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
Tia Leschke
At 03:15 PM 06/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
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>Speaking of computer games, my 10 yos really likes Microsoft FlightDoes that need a joystick to play?
>Simulator.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
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groundhoggirl
You might want to wait a year or two. My boys are 7 and they really
enjoyed the game.
Mimi
enjoyed the game.
Mimi
On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:01 PM, Cindy wrote:
>
>
> SandraDodd@... wrote:
> >
> > After a couple of years of friends saying "You need to get this
> game," we finally did get Settlers of Catan. And the expansion set (so
> six can play). And Seafarers of Catan. And the expansion set. <g> I
> don't recommend getting it all at once, but I don't think whenever you
> do get it, you'll wish you'd gotten it sooner.
> >
> > It can be easy or complex (as with most simple strategy games). The
> basic set involves resources and transportation, in very simple ways.
> It's an attractive game, too.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
>
> What skills are needed to play this game? I'm looking into getting
> more games for our family - the children are 6 & 4.
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/7/2001 9:17:06 AM Central Standard Time,
curtkar@... writes:
(98) for sale. The reason I remember is that my daughter pointed it out
saying, I thought they were suppose to take these off the shelf. Is KMart in
your area?
Candace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
curtkar@... writes:
> Microsoft FlightThe other day the kids and I were in KMart and they had this software title
> >Simulator
(98) for sale. The reason I remember is that my daughter pointed it out
saying, I thought they were suppose to take these off the shelf. Is KMart in
your area?
Candace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>in
>The other day the kids and I were in KMart and they had this software title
>(98) for sale. The reason I remember is that my daughter pointed it out
>saying, I thought they were suppose to take these off the shelf. Is KMart
>your area?How come they were supposed to take them off the shelf?
>Candace
>
Elissa
Karin
Tia -
I just asked ds (how would I know?) and he says it's much easier to play using a joystick, if you have one.
You can use a mouse, but it is very, very hard!.
Karin
At 6:36 PM 06/12/01, Tia wrote:
Tia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just asked ds (how would I know?) and he says it's much easier to play using a joystick, if you have one.
You can use a mouse, but it is very, very hard!.
Karin
At 6:36 PM 06/12/01, Tia wrote:
>Speaking of computer games, my 10 yos really likes Microsoft FlightDoes that need a joystick to play?
>Simulator.
Tia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]