vespertine_nsw

Hi everyone,

First of all a quick intro. I'm Kerrie, unschooling Mum to my son
Elijah. We're from Australia. I joined this list out of curiosity a
while back but I found I wasn't quite in the headspace for it then.
I was still caught up in the idea of teaching, and to be frank,
thought most of you were a bit nuts. After many years of
conditioning to thinkthe only way kids really learn is via formal
lessons subjects and dictation, it was such a challenge to undo all
of that and see learning for what it truly is (natural & constant,
and at it's best when child-led.) I have now completely embraced
unschooling and can't believe I ever doubted the concept. It really
does seem radical, when you consider it against the general view in
society of learning and education! But less radical the more I think
about it. It grows more normal every day, and my son's natural
curiosity, eye for detail, incredible memory and interest and
growing passion in the world around him are constant affirmations
this is the right path.

Anyway! Enough about me. I have a question for you wise people. How
do you explain to strangers around you, the concept of unschooling
in brief, not just as 'homeschooling' but as a lifestyle? I have had
people in disbelief that I 'allow' my son to play with his food, to
paint his body with waterpaints if he wants to, to watch tv whilst
eating his breakfast, and just other random life acts that he
chooses to do himself. I find it difficult, without launching into a
great spiel, explaining how we live and why it's important to me
that DS has autonomy. I find that feathers are really ruffled when I
don't 'pull my son up', and with our lack of rules and boundaries
that many other families seem to have. How in short, would I get the
message across about what unchooling is, and to leave people with a
positive understanding of it, not a negative (eg my kids run wild
and I don't do anything about it.)


Have you had strangers ask you about your parenting practices or
ask 'what's unschooling', and if so, how do you answer without
seeming like you're fishing for debate?


Thanks in advance!

Kerrie.

Sandra Dodd

-=-How
do you explain to strangers around you, the concept of unschooling
in brief, not just as 'homeschooling' but as a lifestyle?-=-

Very briefly.

How do you explain to a very young child where babies come from?
They don't want to know EVERYthing.

If a stranger asks, I say one thing, and if they ask another question
I say one more thing.

Some of the things are:
"It's like the open classroom of the 1970's."
"It's a different way of living with children."
"We find learning everywhere."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

emmy

ahhh yes the concept of simple answers is truly amazing! sandra is so right. i mean can you really argue with "we are always learning"! i usually add "i know i learn something new everyday!' i know i know yes there are people who can & will agrue,.,, LOL

i never defend my parenting or schooling,in the traditional sense,my children "speak" for me. you will learn you either are confident or your not. so chose to be confident! yes worries will come, just check them at the door and move on. i get alot of people commenting on how respectful and smart my children are and then even asking me for advice!

perspective. really the revelation is in HOW people look at things.


emmy

www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
www.emmytofa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] intro & explaining the foreign concept of unschooling to others


-=-How
do you explain to strangers around you, the concept of unschooling
in brief, not just as 'homeschooling' but as a lifestyle?-=-

Very briefly.

How do you explain to a very young child where babies come from?
They don't want to know EVERYthing.

If a stranger asks, I say one thing, and if they ask another question
I say one more thing.

Some of the things are:
"It's like the open classroom of the 1970's."
"It's a different way of living with children."
"We find learning everywhere."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vespertine_nsw

Thank you both. You're so right. How do we answer any other question
when asked? With a simple answer. I don't know why I felt I somehow
had to launch into something long and detailed. I think I'm feeling a
bit nervous because I know this decision isn't going to be very well-
received. And perhaps I am being a little defensive- wanting to be
able to justify why we're unschooling, and have plenty of verbal
ammunition on hand, should a debate arise. What am I doing! This is
about the best, norman and natural way of learning for my son, not
being out to prove myself to others. I think I need to work on my
issues, as I don't think I'm 100% confident yet. Thanks for helping me
identify that :)

I do hope that some people show genuine interest and I'm able to stir
some inspiration to look further into unschooling. I don't know any
unschoolers in real life, and would have loved to have discussed the
ideas with someone, especially when I was in highschool and sensed
deeply myself there was something so wrong about learning in a school.
I just couldn't articulate at that time, why education felt so forced
and unnatural.

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "vespertine_nsw"
<kezzdee@...> wrote:
>I have had
> people in disbelief that I 'allow' my son to play with his food,
to
> paint his body with waterpaints if he wants to, to watch tv whilst
> eating his breakfast, and just other random life acts that he
> chooses to do himself.

I've found it helpful to diffuse these sorts of situations with some
kind of positive statement about whatever my kid is doing, like "I
love how creative s/he is!" or "I'm amazed how independent s/he is!"
or just a big pleased smile. I've seen other adults relax when I do
that - as though their reaction was in some kind of anticipation of
*my* reaction.

> I find that feathers are really ruffled when I
> don't 'pull my son up', and with our lack of rules and boundaries
> that many other families seem to have.

It would help to have an example. Are other parents making snarky
remarks or asking questions? Or just scowling? What kind of context?
For example, I'm happy with my dd jumping on the furniture at home,
but if she wants to do that in someone else's house, I'm going to
check with that person and help Mo find something else to do if
that's not okay. Another example is food - my gf has a house rule
that "food stays in the kitchen" so I remind Mo of that rule when
we're over there, and suggest eating outside or in our car as
alternatives.

> Have you had strangers ask you about your parenting practices

I've had parents ask about my "discipline" practices, and I tell
those parents I would like all "disciplinary" issues referred to me.
I live in a very pro-spanking area, so that's pretty important.

> Have you had strangers...
> ask 'what's unschooling', and if so, how do you answer without
> seeming like you're fishing for debate?

I don't mention the word unschooling unless I'm talking to another
homeschooler - and even then only if the issues of curriculum or
teaching methods come up. Mostly I say things like "my kids are very
independent learners".

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Dawn

Before I even read your response Sandra I said to myself "very
briefly" - LOL... At the beginning I used to get the old standby
question of "what about socialization?" Sometimes I get that and my
response is "yes it must be so sad that the kids who go to school
don't get the socialization my kids get"... I also don't explain
anymore... One quesiton at a time.

Namaste

Dawn
Tucson, AZ
Zak 11 and Max 7


--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
> -=-How
> do you explain to strangers around you, the concept of unschooling
> in brief, not just as 'homeschooling' but as a lifestyle?-=-
>
> Very briefly.
>
> How do you explain to a very young child where babies come from?
> They don't want to know EVERYthing.
>
> If a stranger asks, I say one thing, and if they ask another
question
> I say one more thing.
>
> Some of the things are:
> "It's like the open classroom of the 1970's."
> "It's a different way of living with children."
> "We find learning everywhere."
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-At the beginning I used to get the old standby
question of "what about socialization?" Sometimes I get that and my
response is "yes it must be so sad that the kids who go to school
don't get the socialization my kids get"... I also don't explain
anymore... One quesiton at a time.-=-

Good one!

Yes. Sometimes it's good to give a tricksy answer and look at them
with both my eyes blinking, and wait for their response.

When they get feisty, I say "I have some things you can read if you
really want to know more."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

Hi, Kerrie

I have a 21 year old daughter who's currently in her final year at
the University of Canberra and an 11 year old son who went to school
for two years but has been at home with me for the past five.

I describe my son as 'self-educated under my supervision'. I think if
you tell people your child is unschooled, they will probably assume
that you mean uneducated and everything the idea implies. Self-
educated has different connotations. The conclusions people jump to
are different.

The semantics can be tricky sometimes. Especially when there are so
many parents who erroneously believe that children have to be
'taught' everything (even when they can see with their own eyes that
it isn't true!).

So, what does my self-educated son do all day? Whatever he likes. No
difference there.

But, the fact is, people rarely ask me about this. None of my
relatives have ever commented on my son's unusual lifestyle. My
wife's mother, in fact, who's 86 and living with us now, is all for
it - she gets to see the benefits every day. If a stranger, or the
parent of one of my son's former schoolmates, should ask, they
invariably assume that I'm doing school at home, so they'll
ask "How's the homeschooling going?" "Yeah, great. I'm very pleased
with Pat's progress." End of conversation.

I also keep a copy of Robert Kiyosaki's book 'If You Want to Be Rich
and Happy, Don't Go to School' handy - "By the way, have you read
this book? It's most enlightening." - but I haven't had to use that
tactic so far.

It can be useful to remind people that the institutional school
system takes up only about 150-200 years of humanity's long history,
it was designed to suit the needs of the Industrial Revolution and
the Digital Revolution that's now replaced it has changed all the
rules about everything.

By the way, even when my daughter was thriving in the school system,
I would tell her that going to school was only part of her education
and not necessarily the most important part. That's what I truly
believe.

My daughter was always amongst what Robert Kiyosaki calls
the 'favoured five per cent' - those students whose achievements
reflect well on the school and who are consequently treated
favourably in ways that average students and below are not. That was
a crucial aspect of her experience and not unrelated to how she was
treated before she started school and outside of school during her
school years.

So, really, my son's lifestyle is no different to the lifestyle his
sister has always enjoyed when she's at home. Do what you like and
don't do what you don't like. If it's good enough for me, it's good
enough for my children. :)

The important thing is to be convinced yourself of the value of what
you're doing. That's not easy in the beginning, when you're
deschooling yourself, but it comes from observing the results, as
you're doing. When you're getting results people can't argue with,
they won't argue with your results. When you're certain that what
you're doing is right, you project that into situations and other
people think twice about voicing negative opinions.

But there will always be people, I guess, who will look for things to
criticise in order to rationalise their own decisions about their own
children. Perhaps they're secretly hoping and praying that what we're
doing couldn't possibly be better than sending our children to
school. Unfortunately for them, it is. :)

Bob








--- In [email protected], "vespertine_nsw" <kezzdee@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> First of all a quick intro. I'm Kerrie, unschooling Mum to my son
> Elijah. We're from Australia. I joined this list out of curiosity a
> while back but I found I wasn't quite in the headspace for it then.
> I was still caught up in the idea of teaching, and to be frank,
> thought most of you were a bit nuts. After many years of
> conditioning to thinkthe only way kids really learn is via formal
> lessons subjects and dictation, it was such a challenge to undo all
> of that and see learning for what it truly is (natural & constant,
> and at it's best when child-led.) I have now completely embraced
> unschooling and can't believe I ever doubted the concept. It really
> does seem radical, when you consider it against the general view in
> society of learning and education! But less radical the more I
think
> about it. It grows more normal every day, and my son's natural
> curiosity, eye for detail, incredible memory and interest and
> growing passion in the world around him are constant affirmations
> this is the right path.
>
> Anyway! Enough about me. I have a question for you wise people. How
> do you explain to strangers around you, the concept of unschooling
> in brief, not just as 'homeschooling' but as a lifestyle? I have
had
> people in disbelief that I 'allow' my son to play with his food, to
> paint his body with waterpaints if he wants to, to watch tv whilst
> eating his breakfast, and just other random life acts that he
> chooses to do himself. I find it difficult, without launching into
a
> great spiel, explaining how we live and why it's important to me
> that DS has autonomy. I find that feathers are really ruffled when
I
> don't 'pull my son up', and with our lack of rules and boundaries
> that many other families seem to have. How in short, would I get
the
> message across about what unchooling is, and to leave people with a
> positive understanding of it, not a negative (eg my kids run wild
> and I don't do anything about it.)
>
>
> Have you had strangers ask you about your parenting practices or
> ask 'what's unschooling', and if so, how do you answer without
> seeming like you're fishing for debate?
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Kerrie.
>

Mary Draper

HA! I said that one to a woman who promptly screwed her face up and puffed
that she was a retired middle school principal. I still silently snicker at
her reaction and wonder if her rigid mind was able to process my comment
beyond her obvious disgust.



I normally don't try to offend, but I had just heard this response and liked
it so much I thought I'd try it. I'll go back to my quick and easy answers
- unless I know more about who I am talking to.



Mary



_____

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Dawn
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: intro & explaining the foreign concept of
unschooling to others



Before I even read your response Sandra I said to myself "very
briefly" - LOL... At the beginning I used to get the old standby
question of "what about socialization?" Sometimes I get that and my
response is "yes it must be so sad that the kids who go to school
don't get the socialization my kids get"... I also don't explain
anymore... One quesiton at a time.

Namaste

Dawn
Tucson, AZ
Zak 11 and Max 7

--- In AlwaysLearning@ <mailto:AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
> -=-How
> do you explain to strangers around you, the concept of unschooling
> in brief, not just as 'homeschooling' but as a lifestyle?-=-
>
> Very briefly.
>
> How do you explain to a very young child where babies come from?
> They don't want to know EVERYthing.
>
> If a stranger asks, I say one thing, and if they ask another
question
> I say one more thing.
>
> Some of the things are:
> "It's like the open classroom of the 1970's."
> "It's a different way of living with children."
> "We find learning everywhere."
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Draper

-- I think I'm feeling a bit nervous because I know this decision isn't
going to be very well-received.-

Actually, I find most people are either pleasantly surprised, intrigued, or
wholeheartedly supportive. I do feel very happy and confident with our
lifestyle.

Mary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]