not educational?
Pamela Sorooshian
On my state list someone posted that they are going to see the "Blue
Men."
She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
-pam
Men."
She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?-=-
I'm guessing she's thinking of "educational" as being math, science,
history or "English."
What I've seen of the Blue Man group (I have a video) had to do with
music (rhythm, mood, performance, humor, acoustics/physics), theatre,
dance, special effects.
I'd prefer to say that the Blue Man Group speaks to those with
musical, spatial in interpersonal intelligence. It's a rhythmic and
visual experience.
Maybe the person who asserted that it was not "educational" doesn't
understand learning very well yet or doesn't have much intelligence
in those areas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?-=-
I'm guessing she's thinking of "educational" as being math, science,
history or "English."
What I've seen of the Blue Man group (I have a video) had to do with
music (rhythm, mood, performance, humor, acoustics/physics), theatre,
dance, special effects.
I'd prefer to say that the Blue Man Group speaks to those with
musical, spatial in interpersonal intelligence. It's a rhythmic and
visual experience.
Maybe the person who asserted that it was not "educational" doesn't
understand learning very well yet or doesn't have much intelligence
in those areas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenstarc4
Ok, not really about Blue Men, but, I find it really offensive when
people clearly shun the arts as somehow less than other things. Fine
and performing arts are never considered "educational", just extra
curricular. There is something wrong with that.
It's just one more reason why we unschool. Life isn't about being
split up into subjects and placing them into a heirarchy of better than
or less than. My kids can do all the art they want or none at all.
When I was in school, I wished that I could've done only art and dance
stuff. When I look back on my high school years especially, it feels
as if I wasted all those years in classrooms when I could've been
working on the things that I was passionate about. Truly a waste of
teen energy.
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
people clearly shun the arts as somehow less than other things. Fine
and performing arts are never considered "educational", just extra
curricular. There is something wrong with that.
It's just one more reason why we unschool. Life isn't about being
split up into subjects and placing them into a heirarchy of better than
or less than. My kids can do all the art they want or none at all.
When I was in school, I wished that I could've done only art and dance
stuff. When I look back on my high school years especially, it feels
as if I wasted all those years in classrooms when I could've been
working on the things that I was passionate about. Truly a waste of
teen energy.
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> On my state list someone posted that they are going to see the "Blue
> Men."
>
> She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
>
> So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
> how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
>
>
> -pam
>
Mary Draper
I saw the Blue Man Group 100 years ago, when it first came out. Actually,
they began in 1988. Not only was it complete fun it was many other things
including educational. Check out the website:
http://www.blueman.com/about_bmg/index.shtml. I learned a lot just now
while I reminisced.
~ Mary
--- In AlwaysLearning@ <mailto:AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
they began in 1988. Not only was it complete fun it was many other things
including educational. Check out the website:
http://www.blueman.com/about_bmg/index.shtml. I learned a lot just now
while I reminisced.
~ Mary
--- In AlwaysLearning@ <mailto:AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> On my state list someone posted that they are going to see the "Blue
> Men."
>
> She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
>
> So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
> how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
>
>
> -pam
Nancy Wooton
On May 2, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Mary Draper wrote:
-- WHY does something like seeing a concert have to be justified as
"educational"?
Nancy
> I saw the Blue Man Group 100 years ago, when it first came out.I have -- maybe had? -- a book called "Art Needs No Justification." So
> Actually,
> they began in 1988. Not only was it complete fun it was many other
> things
> including educational. Check out the website:
> http://www.blueman.com/about_bmg/index.shtml. I learned a lot just now
> while I reminisced.
>
> ~ Mary
> --- In AlwaysLearning@ <mailto:AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com, Pamela Sorooshian
> <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>>
>> On my state list someone posted that they are going to see the "Blue
>> Men."
>>
>> She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
>>
>> So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
>> how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
>>
>>
>> -pam
>>
-- WHY does something like seeing a concert have to be justified as
"educational"?
Nancy
jenstarc4
> I have -- maybe had? -- a book called "Art Needs No Justification."So
> -- WHY does something like seeing a concert have to be justified asGood point! I think people try to justify it because it gets put in a
> "educational"?
>
> Nancy
>
place of little value so often in our culture. So, to find what you do
as an artist valuable in a way that isn't just for your own personal
benifit, you find ways to fit it into the society at large.
Most people don't care at all about art things. If you tell people you
are a dancer, most will assume that you are a stripper, not an artist.
Art is a marginalized part of our culture. Unless you are a rock or
movie star doing your art in that venue.
Bob Collier
Pam,
Everything is educational. I'm reminded of one time when my son was
at school and in his kindergarten year (he quit school at the end of
the following year). As the children were lining up to go into the
school at the start of the day, one of the girls in my son's class
refused to go in. Her mother's way of resolving that situation was to
to tell her "you have to go to school or you won't learn anything."
Unbelievable, but, yes, that's the way some grown ups have been
trained to think.
As it happens, I'd never heard of the Blue Men before, so, thanks for
that, and now I've done my googling, I'm better educated, too.
And, now I think of it, if this kind of thing isn't 'educational',
why was I forced to attend theatrical productions of Shakespeare's
plays when I was at school? I would definitely have preferred the BMG.
Bob
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Everything is educational. I'm reminded of one time when my son was
at school and in his kindergarten year (he quit school at the end of
the following year). As the children were lining up to go into the
school at the start of the day, one of the girls in my son's class
refused to go in. Her mother's way of resolving that situation was to
to tell her "you have to go to school or you won't learn anything."
Unbelievable, but, yes, that's the way some grown ups have been
trained to think.
As it happens, I'd never heard of the Blue Men before, so, thanks for
that, and now I've done my googling, I'm better educated, too.
And, now I think of it, if this kind of thing isn't 'educational',
why was I forced to attend theatrical productions of Shakespeare's
plays when I was at school? I would definitely have preferred the BMG.
Bob
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>the "Blue
> On my state list someone posted that they are going to see
> Men."on
>
> She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
>
> So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in
> how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
>
>
> -pam
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-And, now I think of it, if this kind of thing isn't 'educational',
why was I forced to attend theatrical productions of Shakespeare's
plays when I was at school? I would definitely have preferred the
BMG.-=-
Ah... but Shakespeare is *literature* (add appropriately too-snooty
pronunciation of your choice) and the Blue Man Group is (begin
disdainful sniffy tone and posture) --performance art.--
Uh... yeah.
One makes you think and the other is Shakespeare.
Seriously, I really like Shakespeare, but Kelly Lovejoy doesn't and I
still very much like Kelly Lovejoy. There are things I don't much
like, but I still know they have great value to a lot of people
(progressive jazz, fantasy books and opera), and I don't discourage
others in my family from them, I just choose other things for myself.
Shakespeare isn't the least bit educational or useful to someone who
doesn't know what's going on, or who doesn't care. It's not at all
useful to people who can't understand the language. I had a head
start, for having grown up with the King James Bible and having a big
interest in English ballads, many of which retain older phrasing.
But those who read what I just wrote and thought (or said, or acted
out) "eeeyew" would probably not want anything to do with
Shakespeare, and more power to 'em!! I majored in English because I
WANTED to! I've spent lots of money on dictionaries over the years
because I LIKE them!
Shakespeare should be for people who just really like Shakespeare, in
my opinion. And for those who do, or might or kinda wonder, here:
http://sandradodd.com/shakespeare
http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
why was I forced to attend theatrical productions of Shakespeare's
plays when I was at school? I would definitely have preferred the
BMG.-=-
Ah... but Shakespeare is *literature* (add appropriately too-snooty
pronunciation of your choice) and the Blue Man Group is (begin
disdainful sniffy tone and posture) --performance art.--
Uh... yeah.
One makes you think and the other is Shakespeare.
Seriously, I really like Shakespeare, but Kelly Lovejoy doesn't and I
still very much like Kelly Lovejoy. There are things I don't much
like, but I still know they have great value to a lot of people
(progressive jazz, fantasy books and opera), and I don't discourage
others in my family from them, I just choose other things for myself.
Shakespeare isn't the least bit educational or useful to someone who
doesn't know what's going on, or who doesn't care. It's not at all
useful to people who can't understand the language. I had a head
start, for having grown up with the King James Bible and having a big
interest in English ballads, many of which retain older phrasing.
But those who read what I just wrote and thought (or said, or acted
out) "eeeyew" would probably not want anything to do with
Shakespeare, and more power to 'em!! I majored in English because I
WANTED to! I've spent lots of money on dictionaries over the years
because I LIKE them!
Shakespeare should be for people who just really like Shakespeare, in
my opinion. And for those who do, or might or kinda wonder, here:
http://sandradodd.com/shakespeare
http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On May 2, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
at the HSC conference in Sacramento. One thing he said which always
stuck with me was that Shakespeare, in his time, had to write plays
that would draw in an audience whose entertainment choices also
included bear baiting and dog fights in the neighboring theater.
Nancy
> Shakespeare should be for people who just really like Shakespeare, inA few years ago, the science fiction author Tad Williams was a speaker
> my opinion.
at the HSC conference in Sacramento. One thing he said which always
stuck with me was that Shakespeare, in his time, had to write plays
that would draw in an audience whose entertainment choices also
included bear baiting and dog fights in the neighboring theater.
Nancy
Bob Collier
Yes. Rent videos. Shakespeare is definitely better watched than read.
The old fashioned language doesn't make the reading at all easy
anyway.
But, now I think back on it, it was Shakespeare's use of language
that was promoted at my school as the reason to study his work. Most
odd. Like studying Bernie Taupin's use of language without listening
to Elton John's songs.
Too many teachers are left-brainers, that's what I reckon.
Found this link at my website. It only really touches on Shakespeare,
but it's an interesting read anyway.
Educational Superstitions of our time - Shakespeare, Maths and
Handwriting
http://edheretics.gn.apc.org/EHT004.htm
Bob
The old fashioned language doesn't make the reading at all easy
anyway.
But, now I think back on it, it was Shakespeare's use of language
that was promoted at my school as the reason to study his work. Most
odd. Like studying Bernie Taupin's use of language without listening
to Elton John's songs.
Too many teachers are left-brainers, that's what I reckon.
Found this link at my website. It only really touches on Shakespeare,
but it's an interesting read anyway.
Educational Superstitions of our time - Shakespeare, Maths and
Handwriting
http://edheretics.gn.apc.org/EHT004.htm
Bob
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-And, now I think of it, if this kind of thing
isn't 'educational',
> why was I forced to attend theatrical productions of Shakespeare's
> plays when I was at school? I would definitely have preferred the
> BMG.-=-
>
> Ah... but Shakespeare is *literature* (add appropriately too-
snooty
> pronunciation of your choice) and the Blue Man Group is (begin
> disdainful sniffy tone and posture) --performance art.--
>
> Uh... yeah.
> One makes you think and the other is Shakespeare.
>
> Seriously, I really like Shakespeare, but Kelly Lovejoy doesn't and
I
> still very much like Kelly Lovejoy. There are things I don't
much
> like, but I still know they have great value to a lot of people
> (progressive jazz, fantasy books and opera), and I don't
discourage
> others in my family from them, I just choose other things for
myself.
>
> Shakespeare isn't the least bit educational or useful to someone
who
> doesn't know what's going on, or who doesn't care. It's not at
all
> useful to people who can't understand the language. I had a head
> start, for having grown up with the King James Bible and having a
big
> interest in English ballads, many of which retain older phrasing.
> But those who read what I just wrote and thought (or said, or
acted
> out) "eeeyew" would probably not want anything to do with
> Shakespeare, and more power to 'em!! I majored in English because
I
> WANTED to! I've spent lots of money on dictionaries over the
years
> because I LIKE them!
>
> Shakespeare should be for people who just really like Shakespeare,
in
> my opinion. And for those who do, or might or kinda wonder, here:
> http://sandradodd.com/shakespeare
> http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Schuyler
Well, I've just watched Ken Robinson's talk
(http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66) at the TED conference
talking about how the structure of education today is stripping children of
their creativity. Maybe his talk could help someone who doubts the value of
The Blue Man Group. I hadn't watched his talk, even though it had been put
up in many of the places I read on the internet. It's 20 minutes long, and
my connection isn't brilliant, and, having spent years listening to lectures
at university I'd forgotten how entertaining they can be. He is a very good
speaker.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
(http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66) at the TED conference
talking about how the structure of education today is stripping children of
their creativity. Maybe his talk could help someone who doubts the value of
The Blue Man Group. I hadn't watched his talk, even though it had been put
up in many of the places I read on the internet. It's 20 minutes long, and
my connection isn't brilliant, and, having spent years listening to lectures
at university I'd forgotten how entertaining they can be. He is a very good
speaker.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pamela Sorooshian" <pamsoroosh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:00 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] not educational?
> On my state list someone posted that they are going to see the "Blue
> Men."
>
> She stated that this was "clearly...not educational."
>
> So - those who are familiar with the Blue Men - want to chime in on
> how seeing the Blue Men IS educational?
>
>
> -pam
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-But, now I think back on it, it was Shakespeare's use of language
that was promoted at my school as the reason to study his work. Most
odd. Like studying Bernie Taupin's use of language without listening
to Elton John's songs.-=-
Yes.
Occasionally I come upon a Beatles song my kids don't know. They
know some albums and some songs really well, but the other day in my
van that only has a tape player I put in a homemade Beatles tape that
said Sgt. Pepper's but it also had much of The White Album. Holly
had never heard "Julia." It's so pretty. Depressing, but pretty.
And Sexy Sadie came on. I told her the lyrics weren't all that but
the music... really good. And the bass line justified Paul
McCartney's badillionaire status (not just that one song, but...)
And just basking in the surrounds of our analysis of what made a song
bigger or better or memorable or obscure-yet-great... Good moment.
A couple of weeks back we listened to two CDs of Elton John on a road
trip. "Daniel" is one of my favorites. Sad, again; musically
transporting. The words on paper wouldn't be much.
In the 18th century when people read poetry aloud and played parlor
music on their pianofortes, then words on paper were the best they
could get. The Victrola wasn't invented yet and people had to make
their own music and their own poetry. I LOVE that we can hear 35
year old Elton John stuff as clear as can be. It's fantastic that I
can have seen the Blue Man group on video on my computer in
Albuquerque. I can watch Hamlet or Othello or Henry V or A Midsummer
Night's Dream right now this morning if I want to.
I own The Riverside Shakespeare (and a shelf of other Shakespeare-
related books), but that's not where it lives. That's reference,
source, dictionary--and with searchable online versions, it's not
even the best of that anymore at all. Sometimes I want to read a
passage that a movie left out. Sometimes I want to get an act/scene/
line reference for a quote.
-=-I always thought that Bertrand Russell gave the cool answer here,
when he said: "Shakespeare did not write with a view to boring school-
children; he wrote to with a view to delighting his audiences. If he
does not give you delight, you had better ignore him."-=-
VERY cool.
[from http://edheretics.gn.apc.org/EHT004.htm ]
-=-The enthusiasts for imposing learning on children in school do not
have a good track record. There were earlier superstitions. For a
time they tried to make all left-handed children become right-handed,
with a heavy punishment regime. Drill was imposed as a subject on all
children for many years. Children in Welsh-speaking areas of Wales
were punished if they did not speak in English in school. Later
compulsory Welsh appeared in English-speaking parts of Wales and I
have met adults who resented this being enforced on them as children.
And so on.-=-
My dad was forced to write right-handed (in Texas, in the 1930's) and
I went to school at a school where children were punished for
speaking Spanish. In 2nd grade we had Spanish lessons. In 4th grade
I saw a kid get liquid soap put on his tongue for saying something in
Spanish to another kid. Not long after, the same day, the teacher
was speaking Spanish to the janitor right from the classroom door.
By the time I was in high school, bi-lingual programs were starting
to crop up for early elementary...
The experts seem to agree that what they were doing before wasn't
working; they keep changing it. <g>
Bummer the link to "the Inessential Shakespeare website" seems to go
to a generic page.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that was promoted at my school as the reason to study his work. Most
odd. Like studying Bernie Taupin's use of language without listening
to Elton John's songs.-=-
Yes.
Occasionally I come upon a Beatles song my kids don't know. They
know some albums and some songs really well, but the other day in my
van that only has a tape player I put in a homemade Beatles tape that
said Sgt. Pepper's but it also had much of The White Album. Holly
had never heard "Julia." It's so pretty. Depressing, but pretty.
And Sexy Sadie came on. I told her the lyrics weren't all that but
the music... really good. And the bass line justified Paul
McCartney's badillionaire status (not just that one song, but...)
And just basking in the surrounds of our analysis of what made a song
bigger or better or memorable or obscure-yet-great... Good moment.
A couple of weeks back we listened to two CDs of Elton John on a road
trip. "Daniel" is one of my favorites. Sad, again; musically
transporting. The words on paper wouldn't be much.
In the 18th century when people read poetry aloud and played parlor
music on their pianofortes, then words on paper were the best they
could get. The Victrola wasn't invented yet and people had to make
their own music and their own poetry. I LOVE that we can hear 35
year old Elton John stuff as clear as can be. It's fantastic that I
can have seen the Blue Man group on video on my computer in
Albuquerque. I can watch Hamlet or Othello or Henry V or A Midsummer
Night's Dream right now this morning if I want to.
I own The Riverside Shakespeare (and a shelf of other Shakespeare-
related books), but that's not where it lives. That's reference,
source, dictionary--and with searchable online versions, it's not
even the best of that anymore at all. Sometimes I want to read a
passage that a movie left out. Sometimes I want to get an act/scene/
line reference for a quote.
-=-I always thought that Bertrand Russell gave the cool answer here,
when he said: "Shakespeare did not write with a view to boring school-
children; he wrote to with a view to delighting his audiences. If he
does not give you delight, you had better ignore him."-=-
VERY cool.
[from http://edheretics.gn.apc.org/EHT004.htm ]
-=-The enthusiasts for imposing learning on children in school do not
have a good track record. There were earlier superstitions. For a
time they tried to make all left-handed children become right-handed,
with a heavy punishment regime. Drill was imposed as a subject on all
children for many years. Children in Welsh-speaking areas of Wales
were punished if they did not speak in English in school. Later
compulsory Welsh appeared in English-speaking parts of Wales and I
have met adults who resented this being enforced on them as children.
And so on.-=-
My dad was forced to write right-handed (in Texas, in the 1930's) and
I went to school at a school where children were punished for
speaking Spanish. In 2nd grade we had Spanish lessons. In 4th grade
I saw a kid get liquid soap put on his tongue for saying something in
Spanish to another kid. Not long after, the same day, the teacher
was speaking Spanish to the janitor right from the classroom door.
By the time I was in high school, bi-lingual programs were starting
to crop up for early elementary...
The experts seem to agree that what they were doing before wasn't
working; they keep changing it. <g>
Bummer the link to "the Inessential Shakespeare website" seems to go
to a generic page.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
l0v2run
--- In [email protected], "jenstarc4" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
specialization -- a trait people seem to honor and praise in adults
but refuse to allow in children. Reminds me of a wonderful quote I
read in "Teenage Liberation Handbook," which was said by Charles
Darwin's father: "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs, and
rat-catching. You will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family."
Who can count the number of times in a day when the presence of The
Arts makes life better?
>Hear, hear!! It seems to me to show a lack of respect for
> Ok, not really about Blue Men, but, I find it really offensive when
> people clearly shun the arts as somehow less than other things. Fine
> and performing arts are never considered "educational", just extra
> curricular. There is something wrong with that.
> .......
specialization -- a trait people seem to honor and praise in adults
but refuse to allow in children. Reminds me of a wonderful quote I
read in "Teenage Liberation Handbook," which was said by Charles
Darwin's father: "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs, and
rat-catching. You will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family."
Who can count the number of times in a day when the presence of The
Arts makes life better?
emmy
oh man i would love the see BMG! and i will as they are actually coming to orlando soon too!!
oooo & as an artist who has "heard" junk like this (art is not educational,nor an occupation you can live by) MY whole life, i have to speak. LOL i _USED_ to want to scream!! although glady it took not long to realize some live in (different) boxes, and some live in the world (a circle hehe) AND you can NOT make anyone see who does not WANT to see. i know it took me a long time to actually consider myself an "artist" i would say "oh i just love to make stuff". i also remember thinking i WAS NOT an artist because i could not "draw" realistically enough...so i hid my art in a "BOX" till i decided to climb out! one i was able to do that=people saw the FREEDOM & happiness i have!! thus today i travel (the world) encouraging people simply be true be you!!
Picasso said "When I was a child, my mother said to me, 'If you become a soldier, you'll be a general. If you become a monk you'll end up as the pope.' Instead I became a painter and wound up as Picasso."
and this!!
"Each second we live is a new and unique moment of the universe, a moment that will never be again. And what do we teach our children? We teach them that two and two make four, and that Paris is the capital of France. When will we also teach them what they are? We should say to each of them: Do you know what you are? You are a marvel. You are unique. In all the years that have passed, there has never been another child like you. Your legs, your arms, your clever fingers, the way you move. You may become a Shakespeare, a Michelangelo, a Beethoven. You have the capacity for anything. Yes, you are a marvel. And when you grow up, can you then harm another who is, like you, a marvel? You must work, we must all work, to make the world worthy of its children."
anyhow so i usually respond...."even if you only "learn" from text books, it is FILLED with art (photography,design,illustrations,writing etc)so ALL ART is educational (and extremely important!)!!"
emmy
www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
www.emmytofa.com
oooo & as an artist who has "heard" junk like this (art is not educational,nor an occupation you can live by) MY whole life, i have to speak. LOL i _USED_ to want to scream!! although glady it took not long to realize some live in (different) boxes, and some live in the world (a circle hehe) AND you can NOT make anyone see who does not WANT to see. i know it took me a long time to actually consider myself an "artist" i would say "oh i just love to make stuff". i also remember thinking i WAS NOT an artist because i could not "draw" realistically enough...so i hid my art in a "BOX" till i decided to climb out! one i was able to do that=people saw the FREEDOM & happiness i have!! thus today i travel (the world) encouraging people simply be true be you!!
Picasso said "When I was a child, my mother said to me, 'If you become a soldier, you'll be a general. If you become a monk you'll end up as the pope.' Instead I became a painter and wound up as Picasso."
and this!!
"Each second we live is a new and unique moment of the universe, a moment that will never be again. And what do we teach our children? We teach them that two and two make four, and that Paris is the capital of France. When will we also teach them what they are? We should say to each of them: Do you know what you are? You are a marvel. You are unique. In all the years that have passed, there has never been another child like you. Your legs, your arms, your clever fingers, the way you move. You may become a Shakespeare, a Michelangelo, a Beethoven. You have the capacity for anything. Yes, you are a marvel. And when you grow up, can you then harm another who is, like you, a marvel? You must work, we must all work, to make the world worthy of its children."
anyhow so i usually respond...."even if you only "learn" from text books, it is FILLED with art (photography,design,illustrations,writing etc)so ALL ART is educational (and extremely important!)!!"
emmy
www.cafepress.com/emmytofa
www.emmytofa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: l0v2run
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: not educational?
--- In [email protected], "jenstarc4" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, not really about Blue Men, but, I find it really offensive when
> people clearly shun the arts as somehow less than other things. Fine
> and performing arts are never considered "educational", just extra
> curricular. There is something wrong with that.
> .......
Hear, hear!! It seems to me to show a lack of respect for
specialization -- a trait people seem to honor and praise in adults
but refuse to allow in children. Reminds me of a wonderful quote I
read in "Teenage Liberation Handbook," which was said by Charles
Darwin's father: "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs, and
rat-catching. You will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family."
Who can count the number of times in a day when the presence of The
Arts makes life better?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
were all given nibbed pens to write with that you had to dip in an
inkwell in the desk, but we were allowed to use our own pen as long
as it was a fountain pen (and the ink was of the approved colour).
The new fangled ballpoint pen that was then becoming popular was
strictly forbidden.
I'm a left-hander. Because writing left-handed normally from left to
right with a nibbed pen or fountain pen smeared the ink, I had to
curl my hand around the top of what I was writing. I had this awkward
writing style for many years until it became normalised at high
school, where the use of a ballpoint pen was permitted.
Actually, that reminds me of something else that happened at my first
school. In my final year, I had a teacher that I had a very positive
relationship with. Admittedly, I was one of her pet pupils, so maybe
that influenced my high opinion of her. There was a girl in our class
who had been to America on a family vacation - to us in those days,
that was an expedition to a far off land - in particular, to New
Orleans. She was asked by our teacher to tell the story to the class.
Our teacher preceded that, however, by informing us that New Orleans
was named after the French city of Orlean, home of Joan of Arc, etc,
which is pronounced Or-lay-on. Then the girl started her story of her
family's visit to New Orleans. Except every time the girl said "New
Orleans", the teacher corrected her with "Or-lay-on". So the girl was
going "When we landed at the airport in New Orleans"..."Or-lay-
on"..."When we landed at the airport in New Or-lay-on", like that
through the entire story. And every time the teacher 'corrected' her,
it made it more difficult for the girl to tell her story and more
irritating for the rest of us to listen to it. We may not have known
much about America, but we knew New Orleans was called New Orleans. I
don't think I've lost respect for anybody quite as quickly as I lost
respect for that teacher that day. Over just that one incident.
Bob
>and
> >
> My dad was forced to write right-handed (in Texas, in the 1930's)
> I went to school at a school where children were punished forgrade
> speaking Spanish. In 2nd grade we had Spanish lessons. In 4th
> I saw a kid get liquid soap put on his tongue for saying somethingin
> Spanish to another kid. Not long after, the same day, the teacherdoor.
> was speaking Spanish to the janitor right from the classroom
> By the time I was in high school, bi-lingual programs werestarting
> to crop up for early elementary...Back in the late 1950s-early 1960s at my first school in London, we
>
> The experts seem to agree that what they were doing before wasn't
> working; they keep changing it. <g>
>
>
were all given nibbed pens to write with that you had to dip in an
inkwell in the desk, but we were allowed to use our own pen as long
as it was a fountain pen (and the ink was of the approved colour).
The new fangled ballpoint pen that was then becoming popular was
strictly forbidden.
I'm a left-hander. Because writing left-handed normally from left to
right with a nibbed pen or fountain pen smeared the ink, I had to
curl my hand around the top of what I was writing. I had this awkward
writing style for many years until it became normalised at high
school, where the use of a ballpoint pen was permitted.
Actually, that reminds me of something else that happened at my first
school. In my final year, I had a teacher that I had a very positive
relationship with. Admittedly, I was one of her pet pupils, so maybe
that influenced my high opinion of her. There was a girl in our class
who had been to America on a family vacation - to us in those days,
that was an expedition to a far off land - in particular, to New
Orleans. She was asked by our teacher to tell the story to the class.
Our teacher preceded that, however, by informing us that New Orleans
was named after the French city of Orlean, home of Joan of Arc, etc,
which is pronounced Or-lay-on. Then the girl started her story of her
family's visit to New Orleans. Except every time the girl said "New
Orleans", the teacher corrected her with "Or-lay-on". So the girl was
going "When we landed at the airport in New Orleans"..."Or-lay-
on"..."When we landed at the airport in New Or-lay-on", like that
through the entire story. And every time the teacher 'corrected' her,
it made it more difficult for the girl to tell her story and more
irritating for the rest of us to listen to it. We may not have known
much about America, but we knew New Orleans was called New Orleans. I
don't think I've lost respect for anybody quite as quickly as I lost
respect for that teacher that day. Over just that one incident.
Bob