Tina Bragdon

OK, we are working on updating our wills, and this is what brought my
questions up of all things. Our kids will go to my sis in law in the
events of our deaths, we picked them as I know they will be gentle
and respectful of our kids, but I know they will not homeschool,
although they will be very involved with the kids lives in and out of
school, not just benignly neglect them. If God forbid something
happened to me, and dh was alone, I think he would just send the kids
to school too. He would be so overwhelmed with everything, that it
wouldn't occur to him to fight tooth and nail and find a way to stay
home and unschool like I would. Don't get me wrong, he is a
funloving dad and great with them, just not always "present" with
them and looking to expand their worlds, etc as much as me, I "do"
most of the unschooling here (not that it is a "method" or can
be "done" but you know what I mean)

I would not change the fact I am unschooling for anything, I know
that with my kids, my views of childhood/education/success etc,
school-at-home would NOT work. For example, my dd can smell coercion
a mile away. I have seen what joy they have in their lives when they
follow their own pace. Yet, I know that in thinking of them
in "schoolish" terms, that they are "behind". Dd has grown leaps and
bounds exploring reading, yet in a grade one class she would be quite
behind, same in her mathematical thinking/abilities or her spelling.
Ds has a pretty major speech delay (we after MUCH agonizing on my
part are getting him evaluated...I am hoping to find someone who
doesn't view him as a pathology and can give me some ideas to work
with him) and is almost unintelligable to
people who don't know him well, plus has some gross motor issues with
balance/perception of even small heights like a step. Socially, dd
probably would be
labelled with Sensory Integration Disorder, gets very overwhelmed and
spaced out/spinning out in
large groups, and would be one lost and angry little girl in a
classroom of kids.

In our unschooling world, this is all maybe "fine" as I know they are
growing at a pace right for them and have faith they will continue to
grow because I see their zest for life and learning and I KNOW they
learn through following what is interesting to them with me
facilitating/helping them, but what about in case of the fact they
have to be sent to school? It is just a thought that haunts me, not
that I would be aware of any of this beyond the grave or anything,
but I can just see people shaking their heads and saying "poor kid,
she can't even spell more than 3 letter words at 7 yrs old, her mom
just didn't do a thing with her! LOL! It's a schooly aspect of my
thinking I cannot get out of my mind right now, actually to the point
I am getting a little scared.

Thoughts on this anyone from an unschooling perspective?

Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie (almost 7) and ds Jonathan (almost 4)
here in Manitoba Canada

C Johnson

When my husband passed away last year, I knew school was the last thing my children needed. It would have been so hard on them to loose a parent and then have to face a totally different kind of learning world they were unfamiliar and didn't want to do. I feel you should talk to your husband and sister-in-law and let them know what your wishes are as far as unschooling. In the event something happened to you, maybe they would respect them, maybe the wouldn't, but at least you would know right now that you told them how you feel and maybe it would make you feel a little better, here in the present, about your unschooling.

BB,
Chrissie

Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
OK, we are working on updating our wills, and this is what brought my
questions up of all things. Our kids will go to my sis in law in the
events of our deaths, we picked them as I know they will be gentle
and respectful of our kids, but I know they will not homeschool,
although they will be very involved with the kids lives in and out of
school, not just benignly neglect them. If God forbid something
happened to me, and dh was alone, I think he would just send the kids
to school too. He would be so overwhelmed with everything, that it
wouldn't occur to him to fight tooth and nail and find a way to stay
home and unschool like I would. Don't get me wrong, he is a
funloving dad and great with them, just not always "present" with
them and looking to expand their worlds, etc as much as me, I "do"
most of the unschooling here (not that it is a "method" or can
be "done" but you know what I mean)

I would not change the fact I am unschooling for anything, I know
that with my kids, my views of childhood/education/success etc,
school-at-home would NOT work. For example, my dd can smell coercion
a mile away. I have seen what joy they have in their lives when they
follow their own pace. Yet, I know that in thinking of them
in "schoolish" terms, that they are "behind". Dd has grown leaps and
bounds exploring reading, yet in a grade one class she would be quite
behind, same in her mathematical thinking/abilities or her spelling.
Ds has a pretty major speech delay (we after MUCH agonizing on my
part are getting him evaluated...I am hoping to find someone who
doesn't view him as a pathology and can give me some ideas to work
with him) and is almost unintelligable to
people who don't know him well, plus has some gross motor issues with
balance/perception of even small heights like a step. Socially, dd
probably would be
labelled with Sensory Integration Disorder, gets very overwhelmed and
spaced out/spinning out in
large groups, and would be one lost and angry little girl in a
classroom of kids.

In our unschooling world, this is all maybe "fine" as I know they are
growing at a pace right for them and have faith they will continue to
grow because I see their zest for life and learning and I KNOW they
learn through following what is interesting to them with me
facilitating/helping them, but what about in case of the fact they
have to be sent to school? It is just a thought that haunts me, not
that I would be aware of any of this beyond the grave or anything,
but I can just see people shaking their heads and saying "poor kid,
she can't even spell more than 3 letter words at 7 yrs old, her mom
just didn't do a thing with her! LOL! It's a schooly aspect of my
thinking I cannot get out of my mind right now, actually to the point
I am getting a little scared.

Thoughts on this anyone from an unschooling perspective?

Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie (almost 7) and ds Jonathan (almost 4)
here in Manitoba Canada






"All you have to decide is what to do with the time you have been given." Gandalf

---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 23, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Tina Bragdon wrote:

> saying "poor kid,
> she can't even spell more than 3 letter words at 7 yrs old, her mom
> just didn't do a thing with her! LOL! It's a schooly aspect of my
> thinking I cannot get out of my mind right now, actually to the point
> I am getting a little scared.

I'm guessing that you have a very unrealistic picture in your head of
what schooled first graders can do. Are you confusing what schools
"teach" with what kids "learn?" Probably more than half of first
graders don't read yet - or can sound out words but not comprehend
what they are reading. Most use extremely inventive spelling, even
for three-letter words. Here is something I saw in a 1st grade
classroom - in the front of the room was a big poster board and the
teacher had written a lot of words on it - the words were: "the" "I"
"me" "it" "was" "to" "is" "a" "an" "and" and so on. A lot of small
words. This poster was clearly kept in the front of the room all the
time. The children were writing an invitation to their parents to
come to open house at the school. When they wanted to know how to
write a word, they asked which word it was on the poster in front of
the room and they copied it. If the word wasn't on the poster
already, the teacher wrote it on another one. The kids asked how to
write: "dear" "mommy" "daddy" "please" "come" "open" "house" and
"from." The teacher suggested that, instead of writing "from," the
kids should write either, "Yours truly," or "Sincerely."

So - somebody reading the invitations might think all those kids
could read and write, but few of them could have done it on their
own. They made up what they wanted to say, but copied each word.

Anyway - I think you think that the school kids can do way more than
they really can do and that your kids would be made to feel stupid or
be miserable due to being so behind. I doubt that is true. From years
of seeing what happened when unschooled kids did, for some reason,
have to go to school, they were able to catch up on things like not
knowing multiplication tables, etc. I mean, any kid can be unlucky
and get a mean-spirited teacher who makes the child miserable and
might focus on the things the child doesn't yet know - but that is a
hazard of schooling, not a result of having been unschooled - I mean
- it happens to schooled kids, too, when they get a new teacher. In
your kids' cases, most kind-hearted teachers would be making huge
allowances for them anyway, given the circumstances of them entering
school.

Maybe you'd feel better if you talked to your sil and told her your
concerns and asked that, should the need arise, she be really sure
that your kids are with really kind and gentle teachers and that she
talk to them about making allowances for the fact that they were on a
really different educational plan that believed in delaying
academics. That's not an unknown position among educators - they
often have heard of and somewhat understand the concept, even if they
aren't allowed to practice it. Maybe you could even leave a document
that you've written, explaining what the kids' education has been
like, to be given to possible teachers.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

virginia mcneely

Hon, you can worry yourself to death wondering about things like that. Your kids are not "behind". All children's brains develop differently. That's the great thing about homeschooling. Your kids will "get it" when they are ready. I know it's scary sometimes, all of us have insecurities sometimes. But if you have love, hugs, daily "I love you's", EVERYTHING will fall into place! Someone is always going to look at you, and want to give their judgement. Remember, YOU are your own worst saboteur. So don't worry, everything will be allright. My son is almost 8, and he can't read either, so what? He's the most loving, intelligent, and honest person I've ever known in my life! (by the way, his sister who's 10, learned to read at 5 yrs. go figure :0)) P.S have you read any of the Moore's books. I like the information they give about the way our brains take in information. They make alot of sense to me. They advocate not even letting your children read to at least 8 years old.(
for boys they say up to 11) and these people were teachers. Also, read Holt, he's awesome! good luck!


----- Original Message ----
From: Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:23:35 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] on being "behind"...thoughts/perspective anyone...

OK, we are working on updating our wills, and this is what brought my
questions up of all things. Our kids will go to my sis in law in the
events of our deaths, we picked them as I know they will be gentle
and respectful of our kids, but I know they will not homeschool,
although they will be very involved with the kids lives in and out of
school, not just benignly neglect them. If God forbid something
happened to me, and dh was alone, I think he would just send the kids
to school too. He would be so overwhelmed with everything, that it
wouldn't occur to him to fight tooth and nail and find a way to stay
home and unschool like I would. Don't get me wrong, he is a
funloving dad and great with them, just not always "present" with
them and looking to expand their worlds, etc as much as me, I "do"
most of the unschooling here (not that it is a "method" or can
be "done" but you know what I mean)

I would not change the fact I am unschooling for anything, I know
that with my kids, my views of childhood/education /success etc,
school-at-home would NOT work. For example, my dd can smell coercion
a mile away. I have seen what joy they have in their lives when they
follow their own pace. Yet, I know that in thinking of them
in "schoolish" terms, that they are "behind". Dd has grown leaps and
bounds exploring reading, yet in a grade one class she would be quite
behind, same in her mathematical thinking/abilities or her spelling.
Ds has a pretty major speech delay (we after MUCH agonizing on my
part are getting him evaluated... I am hoping to find someone who
doesn't view him as a pathology and can give me some ideas to work
with him) and is almost unintelligable to
people who don't know him well, plus has some gross motor issues with
balance/perception of even small heights like a step. Socially, dd
probably would be
labelled with Sensory Integration Disorder, gets very overwhelmed and
spaced out/spinning out in
large groups, and would be one lost and angry little girl in a
classroom of kids.

In our unschooling world, this is all maybe "fine" as I know they are
growing at a pace right for them and have faith they will continue to
grow because I see their zest for life and learning and I KNOW they
learn through following what is interesting to them with me
facilitating/ helping them, but what about in case of the fact they
have to be sent to school? It is just a thought that haunts me, not
that I would be aware of any of this beyond the grave or anything,
but I can just see people shaking their heads and saying "poor kid,
she can't even spell more than 3 letter words at 7 yrs old, her mom
just didn't do a thing with her! LOL! It's a schooly aspect of my
thinking I cannot get out of my mind right now, actually to the point
I am getting a little scared.

Thoughts on this anyone from an unschooling perspective?

Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie (almost 7) and ds Jonathan (almost 4)
here in Manitoba Canada




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<< Our kids will go to my sis in law in the
> events of our deaths, we picked them as I know they will be gentle
> and respectful of our kids, but I know they will not homeschool, >>>>>>
snip
> Thoughts on this anyone from an unschooling perspective? >>>>>

We originally had designated as godparents some cousins of dh's who are
lovely people, who have raised lovely now-adult kids and are fun and
pleasant - and absolutely committed to the school system. The mom is a
special ed teacher. Dh's sister also offered herself, and she too is a
lovely person but certainly doesn't get home schooling or unschooling. Her
son was in Sylvan for a while, then a very heavy college prep school, and
she would probably represent the nicest and best of conventional parenting,
if that makes sense.

We have changed our minds and have now designated an Unschooling family -
the tribe we have chosen and the family of our heart rather than our dna -
to be the loving support for Jayn should the unthinkable happen to both
James and I. The Lovejoys for the curious :)

I once asked my husband if he would still Unschool if something happened to
me. He looked at me like I was nuts and said something like, "Of course -
how can you even ask?" You can have no idea how freeing that statement was,
how grateful I continue to be to him. I know he would find a way, and that
sending my dd away from him at what would be the time of worst grief and
greatest need would never occur to him. Perhaps your dh could come to see it
that way - that your kids would need him and his presence even more should
you be taken from them.

Robyn L. Coburn

Sandra Dodd

-=-I once asked my husband if he would still Unschool if something
happened to
me. He looked at me like I was nuts and said something like, "Of
course -
how can you even ask?" You can have no idea how freeing that
statement was,
how grateful I continue to be to him-=-

I used to worry about those things quite a bit, too. The person who
had been designated as possible guardian never did get to the point
that he understood unschooling and his own children (which he didn't
have at the time) are in Catholic school. But at some point we
discussed it and he would have helped the kids financially (meaning
figured out the social security and insurance and been financial
guardian, to make sure the bills got paid and they had health
insurance and all) and gotten another of our friends to live in the
house with them. That would've worked.

At this point, two of ours are past school age and the youngest is
fifteen, so I don't worry at all anymore. What a relief to have
lived this long! (Seriously.)

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

space_and_freedom

--- In [email protected], "Tina Bragdon"
<jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
>
> OK, we are working on updating our wills, and this is what brought
> my questions up of all things. Our kids will go to my sis in law in
> the events of our deaths, we picked them as I know they will be
> gentle and respectful of our kids, but I know they will not
> homeschool, although they will be very involved with the kids lives
> in and out of school, not just benignly neglect them. If God forbid
> something happened to me, and dh was alone, I think he would just
> send the kids to school too.

If you *think* he would send them to school, then you probably need a
very explicit conversation with him, so you *know* where he stands. It
might help sway him if you expressed how important him staying home
would be to you.

> He would be so overwhelmed with everything, that it
> wouldn't occur to him to fight tooth and nail and find a way to stay
> home and unschool like I would.

When my husband and I discussed this subject it was during the
decision for how much term life insurance we needed on *me*. If I die,
I want him to be able to quit his job and live off the interest after
investing the insurance money, thus we got as much insurance on me (a
non-money earning SAHM) as we got on him. That way there will be no
need for tooth and nail fighting (at least financially) for him to do
what is best for our kids.

Here's to living so long, none of us have to worry about guardians for
our kids.

Jen
space_and_freedom

Sandra Dodd

-=-If you *think* he would send them to school, then you probably need a
very explicit conversation with him, so you *know* where he stands. It
might help sway him if you expressed how important him staying home
would be to you.-=-

Unless there were BIG bucks involved, I don't see how one could
require much of anything of those who might care for their children
after their deaths. Even if I could leave enough money that someone
would never have to work again, they might not want to stay with my
kids 24/7, and they might have no interest in unschooling.

If someone left me the responsibility to be a guardian and said "And
you MUST keep him in Catholic school and you MUST go to all his
basketball games, and keep him in baseball, and make sure he never
goes on the internet..." Uh... no.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

queenjane555

>Unless there were BIG bucks involved, I don't see how one could
>require much of anything of those who might care for their
>children after their deaths.

I thought she was referring to the child's father, in the event of
the death of the child's mother. Making it easier for the dad to
stay home with the kids in the same way that the mom was able to
because the dad was working.

>If someone left me the responsibility to be a guardian and
>said "And you MUST keep him in Catholic school and you MUST go to
>all his basketball games, and keep him in baseball, and make sure
>he never goes on the internet..." Uh... no.

But if those things *were* very important to the parent, they should
be very upfront with the person(s) they choose to be guardians of
their children, and the potential guardian should be upfront and
honest about what they are willing to do. Of course, situations
change but on "big issues" (religion,education, discipline styles),
i would hope that a parent and guardian would be somewhat in
agreement about what to do with the kids. Its not like you would be
a guardian against your will, you'd have to agree to it. They can't
force you to take their kids.


Katherine

Sandra Dodd

-=-Of course, situations
change but on "big issues" (religion,education, discipline styles),
i would hope that a parent and guardian would be somewhat in
agreement about what to do with the kids.-=-

Unschooling is beyond religion, education and discipline styles.

It's like breastfeeding and co-sleeping.

I couldn't leave a baby to a friend and say "You have to nurse him
until he quits on his own, and let him sleep with you."

There are some things only willing parents can do full-on, and they
can't expect others to do.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

queenjane555

> There are some things only willing parents can do full-on, and they
> can't expect others to do.

Thats just not true.

If i died, and my son's father didnt fight my family on it, my son
would stay here in MI and be raised by my family, probably my sister
(with other family members helping out)...i have no doubt that she
would continue to unschool him. We have actually talked about it. Will
she unschool him in the exact same way that i do? No, probably not
(just as in 2 parent families, one parent may relate to the child and
therefore unschool the child in a different way than the other
parent)...but he will still have the same basic unschooling experience
(his schedule likely wouldnt change---staying up late, sleeping in---
his ability to eat what he wants/sleep when he wants/play as much
videogames or computer that he wants wouldnt change---the respect he
feels from the adults around him wouldnt change.)

I'm really confused as to why you don't think one can expect that a
person who shares similar ideals wouldnt raise your child as you
would?

"I couldn't leave a baby to a friend and say "You have to nurse him
until he quits on his own, and let him sleep with you.""

No, but you could choose a friend who would never think of doing
anything BUT those things. And you could tell your friend how
important it was to you. When my son was a baby, i knew that if i
died, whether he ended up with my family or with his father, that
person would co-sleep with him. Of course there are issues with
breastfeeding, but i'm pretty sure if i had a lactating mom to leave
him to, they wouldve nursed him.


Why do you think unschooling is "beyond" things like religion or
discipline styles? Its almost as if you are saying its nearly
unattainable to expect any guardian to unschool, so don't get your
hopes up. Yet i know, if my son were able to stay w/ my family if i
died, his daily life would be relatively unchanged. They treat him as
i treat him. Unfortunately not everyone has a similar relationship w/
their family,but in that event they can try to seek out non-related
people who share their ideals.


Katherine

Sandra Dodd

-=-Its almost as if you are saying its nearly
unattainable to expect any guardian to unschool, so don't get your
hopes up. -=-

That's exactly what I was saying.

We can't demand and can hardly even expect anyone else to do our
bidding after our death unless there's so much money involved that
they have NO need to work at anything but dedicating their lives to
being our replacements.

-=-Unfortunately not everyone has a similar relationship w/
their family,but in that event they can try to seek out non-related
people who share their ideals. -=-

Yes they can try, but they're unlikely to succeed so they shouldn't
get their hopes up.

There is no guarantee whatsoever, even if someone agrees to it in
advance, that they'll be able to pull it off. And a child whose
parents have died might rather go to school than stay with a person
the parents chose years before. The guardians will simply not be the
parents. And the hinge on which unschooling hangs is the child's
choice and freedom. If the child feel stuck with someone who doesn't
really understand and who is resentful (even a little) of the full-
time, 24-hour-a-day-all-year demands of unschooling, he could not
possibly be as comfortable in that situation as he was with his parents.

We don't get to replace ourselves when we die.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "queenjane555"
<queenjane555@...> wrote:
>Will
> she unschool him in the exact same way that i do? No, probably not
> (just as in 2 parent families, one parent may relate to the child
and
> therefore unschool the child in a different way than the other
> parent)...but he will still have the same basic unschooling
experience

There's an implication, here, that the parent-child relationship is
only a small factor in "the basic unschooling experience" whereas I
see it as the core of unschooling itself.

That relationship is built, for many unschoolers, during the
parent's deschooling period. Either parents and kids deschool
together and grow into unschooling together, or parents work hard at
deschooling while the child is very young, and the family
is "unschool-ready" (as it were) by mandatory school age. That's not
going to be the case with an adoptive family.

The closest you'll come is with a family that is already
unschooling - and in that case your berieved children are going to
have to deal with a really different kind of family structure, one
with more siblings in it. That's going to change the "basic
unschooling experience".

In the case of a childless couple agreeing to unschool your kids,
there's a Big Gap between understanding unschooling in theory and
actually living it day in and day out. The new parents are going to
need time to deschool - a time complicated by the grieving process.
That's going to have a big effect on the relationship *and* the
feeling of respect between the adults and the kids and there is no
way of predicting the outcome of that process.

> Its almost as if you are saying its nearly
> unattainable to expect any guardian to unschool, so don't get your
> hopes up.

How many families homeschool, much less unschool? Its certainly
statistically unlikely, even with a screening process. How many
families do you know irl who tried homeschooling or unschooling and
changed their minds? I know several. Its that gap between the idea
and the reality.

If trusting that your children will have the "same basic unschooling
experience" lets you sleep at night, then by all mean cling to that
trust with both hands. Personally, I'm going to go on trusting that
the people I love will do their best for my kids if something goes
wrong, and not stress about the details, which are totally beyond my
control anyway.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

queenjane555

> If trusting that your children will have the "same basic unschooling
> experience" lets you sleep at night, then by all mean cling to that
> trust with both hands. Personally, I'm going to go on trusting that
> the people I love will do their best for my kids if something goes
> wrong, and not stress about the details, which are totally beyond my
> control anyway.


I guess i just don't get it. *shrug*

I thought we were talking about choosing an appropriate guardian for
ones child, in the event of one's death. Not a lovely subject to be
sure, and certainly the child's life will be turned upside down
regardless. But it seems the argument is that it doesnt matter who the
kid's guardian is---heck, put down your mailman's name!---because the
child won't get to unschool anyway.

My point is that it IS possible to choose a guardian for your child
that holds similar beliefs. I am not "clinging" to any trust. I don't
even have a will. My son's father could likely get my son if i died,
and his life would take a dramatic turn for the worse (but he's a
flexible kid so i think he'd be ok), thats a bummer for me (well, my
son ultimately) but the price i pay for being a single parent.

I'm not suggesting that someone write a will saying that whoever
raises their kid must do XYZ under penalty of....well, of what? I
doubt there could be a penalty. All i'm saying is that its possible
for a child to go on unschooling even if the parent doing the
unschooling now is no longer around.


Katherine

queenjane555

> That's exactly what I was saying.

Why? Are you saying if you had to raise your sister's kids
(hypothetically), you wouldnt unschool them?


>
> We can't demand and can hardly even expect anyone else to do our
> bidding after our death unless there's so much money involved that
>they have NO need to work at anything but dedicating their lives to
>being our replacements.

"Demand" "expect" "bidding" "dedicating" "replacements"

I don't see why you are using such harsh extreme language. No one
can replace a child's birth parents. Even if a child is adopted at
birth, the adoptive parents arent a *replacement*...but they are a
substitute for the child's parents who arent around. Finding someone
(in your family, or extended network of friends as some here have
done)that is in general alignment with your childraising beliefs may
be hard for some people, but i would think it would be worth it if
it was very important to them that their child continue to unschool.
Personally, its more important to me that my child stay with family
who have known him since birth and who love him, regardless of
whether he would end up in school or not. But i really like and
trust my family. Not everyone is so lucky.

> Yes they can try, but they're unlikely to succeed so they
>shouldn't get their hopes up.

Why are they unlikely to succeed?

>
> There is no guarantee whatsoever, even if someone agrees to it in
> advance, that they'll be able to pull it off.

Yes, there is no guarantee that the child's own parents will be able
to "pull off" unschooling, or continue it for years. We can't
predict the future, only do our best to take steps to steer toward
certain outcomes.

>And a child whose parents have died might rather go to school than
>stay with a person the parents chose years before.

Which is why its a good idea to review who you've chosen for a
guardian every few years, as situations change. There are people i
might have chosen when my son was an infant that i don't even talk
to now.

>The guardians will simply not be the parents.

Yeah, no kidding. But they will be legal guardians, probably with
all the rights and responsibilities of the parents. And if the child
is young, or the child chooses, they possibly could adopt the child.
Then they "simply" WOULD be the parents.

My son has so many people in his life who help us unschool. My
brothers and my sisters, especially. But they arent me. There are
such things as second and third best, "almost as good" and "not even
on the list of possible good choices."


>If the child feel stuck with someone who doesn't
> really understand and who is resentful (even a little) of the full-
> time, 24-hour-a-day-all-year demands of unschooling, he could not
> possibly be as comfortable in that situation as he was with his
>parents.

Uhhh...maybe we are talking about two different things. I see you
envisioning a case where a friend or relative is suprised with the
gift of three unschooled kids, and a letter threatening harm from
the grave if that person doesnt unschool exactly as the parent
intended, complete with dissecting dead birds found in the yard,
midnight marathons of World of Warcraft, and a big family bed.

Thats not what i'm talking about. I'm suggesting that rather than
throwing up one's hands and saying "Oh well, i guess crazy Aunt
Irene gets our kids, because she is our closest kin", one should
explore who in their family or circle of friends has similar
philosophies about childraising. No, you can't guarantee that they
won't change their mind. Or that they will even be around if you
die. But its sure worth putting a little thought into.


> We don't get to replace ourselves when we die.

Was anyone suggesting that?


Katherine

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 30, 2007, at 9:02 AM, Meredith wrote:

> Personally, I'm going to go on trusting that
> the people I love will do their best for my kids if something goes
> wrong, and not stress about the details, which are totally beyond my
> control anyway.


If my kids were little, rather than pick someone and try to impose on
them a promise to unschool and to treat my kid in certain ways, it
would be far more sensible to pick someone who generally has a
philosophy of life and learning that I agree with, someone who has an
optimistic outlook on the world, and, mostly, someone who will be a
comfort to my kids at a time of terrible grief, and then trust them
to do what they think is best for my kids, rather than expecting to
be able to tell them what I want done, in the future, when I'm not
around and when things might be very different - kid has experienced
death of parents, is living with other people and in completely
different circumstances. We don't know what might happen in THAT
family, what circumstances might arise - we really don't "know" that
they'll do what we tell them we want done, even if they agree. They
might have good intentions now, and yet THEY might be faced things
that change their minds.

I'm not sure what Sandra means by "unlikely" - I think it is very
likely that I would continue unschooling the kid for whom I am a
designated guardian in his parents' wills. An absolute certainty? No.
But, very likely. If the parents tried to specify exactly what form
that unschooling life would take - THAT would be unlikely to be able
to be carried out, though.

-pam




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-> That's exactly what I was saying.

-=-Why? Are you saying if you had to raise your sister's kids
(hypothetically), you wouldnt unschool them?-=-

When Holly wants to make a wildly inappropriate point, she says "So
are you saying you want to give me to the gypsies?"

The question above is a wildly inappropriate point.

I already WAS unschooling, before my sister was. It would not have
been difficult for me to add other unschooled kids to my unschooling
family.

-=->The guardians will simply not be the parents.

-=-Yeah, no kidding. But they will be legal guardians, probably with
all the rights and responsibilities of the parents. And if the child
is young, or the child chooses, they possibly could adopt the child.
Then they "simply" WOULD be the parents.
-=-

Your tone, the "no kidding" the "*shrug*" from another post, and the
"'simply' WOULD" are indicating to me that you're no longer
discussing this rationally but are moving into the area of snarky
defensiveness. Please try to chill.

-=-"Oh well, i guess crazy Aunt
Irene gets our kids, because she is our closest kin"-=-

Good one. That's my sister's name.

-=-No, you can't guarantee that they
won't change their mind. Or that they will even be around if you
die. But its sure worth putting a little thought into. -=-

No one here is objecting to people putting a little thought into
anything.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-'m not sure what Sandra means by "unlikely" - I think it is very
likely that I would continue unschooling the kid for whom I am a
designated guardian in his parents' wills. An absolute certainty? No.
But, very likely. If the parents tried to specify exactly what form
that unschooling life would take - THAT would be unlikely to be able
to be carried out, though.
-=-

Just what I said. Unlikely that someone will find someone to do
precisely as parents would have done without a WHOLE lot of money.

And even ideally and perfectly, those people won't be the parents.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathleen Gehrke

I have nine, but only seven are still at home. That question haunts
me a bit. Well a lot.

Who would have my philosophies etc?... NO ONE.. Who would love them
like I do?.... No One... I am not saying someone else would not
somedays parent better than I do. But I am their parent. They own my
heart.

I think my children would go to my older children, who are in the
mid 20's. They love them and parent their own children similar to my
parenting.. BETTER than I did when they were young, I think.

I have several times had potential candidates, but naw...I ended up
taking them off the candidate list.

I had often thought about choosing another unschooling family, but I
still do not know what would happen to my kids.

The thoughts of someone taking this lovely life they have and
making them go to ps, tow the line, limit them and control the
content of their lives makes me realize I must live on...

That is it.

Just wanted to get a word in on this subject that speaks to me.
Kathleen

space_and_freedom

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-'m not sure what Sandra means by "unlikely" - I think it is very
> likely that I would continue unschooling the kid for whom I am a
> designated guardian in his parents' wills. An absolute certainty? No.
> But, very likely. If the parents tried to specify exactly what form
> that unschooling life would take - THAT would be unlikely to be able
> to be carried out, though.
> -=-
>
> Just what I said. Unlikely that someone will find someone to do
> precisely as parents would have done without a WHOLE lot of money.

The point I was trying to make in an earlier post is that if both
parents have adequate _term_ life insurance (not very expensive for
healthy adults to purchase), then there should be plenty of money
available. As to who could be the legal guardians if both my husband
and I died...that's a rough question, and I'm not even certain the
choice we've made is the best one, just the best out of lots of bad
choices.

But the OP was unsure what her husband would do if _she_ died, and I
think _now_ is the time to discuss that with him so she doesn't just
"think" what he intends to do but "knows" what he intends to do (yes
that could change after the fact, but I still thinks it's better for
her DH to know her desires and how important unschooling is to her).

Jen
space_and_freedom

diana jenner

Having had a spouse die, I completely understand that I am on a parenting
path that is very different than the one I would be traveling with a LIVE
spouse, especially that one :) We spoke before kids about our ideals and
even on a different route, I still uphold the principles we committed to
very early (being FUN, being KIDS, providing lots of love and great
conversations...).
In the event of MY death, my kid will live with another unschooling family,
an unschooling family who knows and loves my kid for who he is and are
absolutely committed to this parenting path. Will it look the same as it
did before?? Heck no! Not even in a super cool family, it's still not mommy
(or daddy or mommy & daddy). Is it better than the alternatives?
Absolutely!! Can he roll with it? Without a doubt, our lives have provided
the practice already!!
I don't waste a minute of my life in this fear, however! Life is way too
short. If you've got angst about who you're leaving your kids to, find
someone more appropriate and get on with Living :)

On 4/30/07, Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
>
> I have nine, but only seven are still at home. That question haunts
> me a bit. Well a lot.
>
> Who would have my philosophies etc?... NO ONE.. Who would love them
> like I do?.... No One... I am not saying someone else would not
> somedays parent better than I do. But I am their parent. They own my
> heart.
>
> I think my children would go to my older children, who are in the
> mid 20's. They love them and parent their own children similar to my
> parenting.. BETTER than I did when they were young, I think.
>
> I have several times had potential candidates, but naw...I ended up
> taking them off the candidate list.
>
> I had often thought about choosing another unschooling family, but I
> still do not know what would happen to my kids.
>
> The thoughts of someone taking this lovely life they have and
> making them go to ps, tow the line, limit them and control the
> content of their lives makes me realize I must live on...
>
>
>
>



--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathleen Gehrke

--- In [email protected], "diana jenner"
<hahamommy@...> wrote:
>

> I don't waste a minute of my life in this fear, however! Life is
way too
> short. If you've got angst about who you're leaving your kids to,
find
> someone more appropriate and get on with Living :)

Thanks Dianne,

You are right I am living in fear over this subject. Well it alters
between fear and denial.. hmmm...

I will see what I can actively do to make a good choice and move on.

Kathleen