helping the victim
Vida
Hi everyone,
I've been noticing a "poor me" increase with one of my girls. We
have twins and the relationship between them has always been that
Athena is the one to take initiative, to command, to lead. She is
quick of mind (figures things out, anticipating your next move etc).
Penelope is intuitive, more fearful of making mistakes, lets others
(her sister and us) decide, etc. Athena has been the one to take
things from Penelope. Penelope then whines and cries and then gets
furious. When I try and step in, not to fix things (though I have
made that mistake in the past) but to separate them and then give
each their chance to speak their mind, Athena immediately feels like
I'm favoring Penny and storms off slamming doors and saying hurtful
things and then Penny *seems* to play the victim for all its worth
(she often can't suppress a smile watching me giving her attention.
Then she makes herself get all upset again, slumps her shoulders,
sighs, she even slumps to the floor and lays there.
I don't know how to handle this. How can I help her get out of the
victim frame of mind? I tell her that I want her to feels safe in
her home, that if she cannot deal with an argument with Athena to
come and get me if I haven't already stuck my head in. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Vida
I've been noticing a "poor me" increase with one of my girls. We
have twins and the relationship between them has always been that
Athena is the one to take initiative, to command, to lead. She is
quick of mind (figures things out, anticipating your next move etc).
Penelope is intuitive, more fearful of making mistakes, lets others
(her sister and us) decide, etc. Athena has been the one to take
things from Penelope. Penelope then whines and cries and then gets
furious. When I try and step in, not to fix things (though I have
made that mistake in the past) but to separate them and then give
each their chance to speak their mind, Athena immediately feels like
I'm favoring Penny and storms off slamming doors and saying hurtful
things and then Penny *seems* to play the victim for all its worth
(she often can't suppress a smile watching me giving her attention.
Then she makes herself get all upset again, slumps her shoulders,
sighs, she even slumps to the floor and lays there.
I don't know how to handle this. How can I help her get out of the
victim frame of mind? I tell her that I want her to feels safe in
her home, that if she cannot deal with an argument with Athena to
come and get me if I haven't already stuck my head in. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Vida
Emily Troper
Vida,
Not sure how old your girls are, but we have fighting siblings here
too (mostly our 5 and 7 year olds), it seems to happen more in the
winter, when they are inside together more during the day, and that
they both need more connection and help from me. I have found that
instead of ignoring the "offender", they are the child who needs my
attention most. I try my best to remember that they are in pain and
always presume positive intent (i.e. of course do not want to hurt
their sibling, but just simply cannot control themselves sometimes,
being a little kid and all). So, one thing that has really helped
is, when I hear a fight happening and I come upon the kids, I
immediately apologize to the "offender", I say "I'm sorry, I'm really
sorry I didn't get here in time" and "looks like you needed my help",
and then I help mediate the conflict, respectfully. Another thing
that helps is family meetings, sometimes daily, where each of us talk
about our *problems*, *plans*, and *sharing* (make three columns on a
big dry erase board) we get a lot of problems worked out that way,
when the emotions are NOT high, and make agreements that we can refer
back to when in the thick of disagreements. Other things that have
worked were creating more space for "special time" with each child,
10-15 minutes a day, each. Also, we parents are so relieved to have
things going well between our children that we sometimes don't notice
the details of the generous and flexible moments between them. If you
look carefully, I think you'll see sharing, assistance, and
thoughtfulness at moments and in places you hadn't noticed before,
and your noticing of those times will only create more! Also, all of
the kids know that they can call out "mama! problem!" when they have
an issue they don't feel they can take care of peacefully on their
own - even my teenager will use this code word he has always known if
he gets into a situation with the youngers (they wouldn't leave his
room last night and he was really tired and starting to feel mad), so
it helps both the "victim" and the "offender" (not that we use ever
those labels either, this is just for clarification of this post)
feel empowered to feel safe in their home and not have the burden of
solving every problem themselves.
Emily
joyfully unschooling
in Portland, Oregon
with dh Michael
ds Morgan (12/91)
ds Seth (8/99)
dd Sara Kate (7/01)
and ds Jacob (12/04)
I've been noticing a "poor me" increase with one of my girls. We
have twins and the relationship between them has always been that
Athena is the one to take initiative, to command, to lead. She is
quick of mind (figures things out, anticipating your next move etc).
Penelope is intuitive, more fearful of making mistakes, lets others
(her sister and us) decide, etc. Athena has been the one to take
things from Penelope. Penelope then whines and cries and then gets
furious. When I try and step in, not to fix things (though I have
made that mistake in the past) but to separate them and then give
each their chance to speak their mind, Athena immediately feels like
I'm favoring Penny and storms off slamming doors and saying hurtful
things and then Penny *seems* to play the victim for all its worth
(she often can't suppress a smile watching me giving her attention.
Then she makes herself get all upset again, slumps her shoulders,
sighs, she even slumps to the floor and lays there.
I don't know how to handle this. How can I help her get out of the
victim frame of mind? I tell her that I want her to feels safe in
her home, that if she cannot deal with an argument with Athena to
come and get me if I haven't already stuck my head in. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Vida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not sure how old your girls are, but we have fighting siblings here
too (mostly our 5 and 7 year olds), it seems to happen more in the
winter, when they are inside together more during the day, and that
they both need more connection and help from me. I have found that
instead of ignoring the "offender", they are the child who needs my
attention most. I try my best to remember that they are in pain and
always presume positive intent (i.e. of course do not want to hurt
their sibling, but just simply cannot control themselves sometimes,
being a little kid and all). So, one thing that has really helped
is, when I hear a fight happening and I come upon the kids, I
immediately apologize to the "offender", I say "I'm sorry, I'm really
sorry I didn't get here in time" and "looks like you needed my help",
and then I help mediate the conflict, respectfully. Another thing
that helps is family meetings, sometimes daily, where each of us talk
about our *problems*, *plans*, and *sharing* (make three columns on a
big dry erase board) we get a lot of problems worked out that way,
when the emotions are NOT high, and make agreements that we can refer
back to when in the thick of disagreements. Other things that have
worked were creating more space for "special time" with each child,
10-15 minutes a day, each. Also, we parents are so relieved to have
things going well between our children that we sometimes don't notice
the details of the generous and flexible moments between them. If you
look carefully, I think you'll see sharing, assistance, and
thoughtfulness at moments and in places you hadn't noticed before,
and your noticing of those times will only create more! Also, all of
the kids know that they can call out "mama! problem!" when they have
an issue they don't feel they can take care of peacefully on their
own - even my teenager will use this code word he has always known if
he gets into a situation with the youngers (they wouldn't leave his
room last night and he was really tired and starting to feel mad), so
it helps both the "victim" and the "offender" (not that we use ever
those labels either, this is just for clarification of this post)
feel empowered to feel safe in their home and not have the burden of
solving every problem themselves.
Emily
joyfully unschooling
in Portland, Oregon
with dh Michael
ds Morgan (12/91)
ds Seth (8/99)
dd Sara Kate (7/01)
and ds Jacob (12/04)
I've been noticing a "poor me" increase with one of my girls. We
have twins and the relationship between them has always been that
Athena is the one to take initiative, to command, to lead. She is
quick of mind (figures things out, anticipating your next move etc).
Penelope is intuitive, more fearful of making mistakes, lets others
(her sister and us) decide, etc. Athena has been the one to take
things from Penelope. Penelope then whines and cries and then gets
furious. When I try and step in, not to fix things (though I have
made that mistake in the past) but to separate them and then give
each their chance to speak their mind, Athena immediately feels like
I'm favoring Penny and storms off slamming doors and saying hurtful
things and then Penny *seems* to play the victim for all its worth
(she often can't suppress a smile watching me giving her attention.
Then she makes herself get all upset again, slumps her shoulders,
sighs, she even slumps to the floor and lays there.
I don't know how to handle this. How can I help her get out of the
victim frame of mind? I tell her that I want her to feels safe in
her home, that if she cannot deal with an argument with Athena to
come and get me if I haven't already stuck my head in. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Vida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vida
> I'm sorry, I'm reallyEmily,
> sorry I didn't get here in time" and "looks like you needed my help",
> and then I help mediate the conflict, respectfully.
Thank you for your reply. If I did this I really believe Athena
would feel incredibly relieved. It takes the weight off of her
losing control. Yes, both girls (nearly 8) spend most of the day in
peaceful play, sharing and working out problems together. There are
a few buttons Penny has and I would like to find a way to help her
out of the slump to the ground state she gets in. Athena will
suddenly take the play where Penny doesn't want to go, and Penny's
immediate reaction is a whiney cry, an immediate slump and frowns and
more whines. Maybe I'm rushing things.... I mean, I have said before
that I am re-connecting with unschooling/peaceful parenting and
although I haven't gone "mainstream" I have been leaving them to
their own defenses when they fight. I will try your suggestions. I
also like the family meeting idea. We used to write down the
problems (sibling rivalry techniques) and it worked then for the most
part.
Thanks again,
Vida
On Feb 26, 2007, at 7:43 PM, Emily Troper wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I mean, I have said before
that I am re-connecting with unschooling/peaceful parenting and
although I haven't gone "mainstream" I have been leaving them to
their own defenses when they fight.-=-
The idiom is "leaving them to their own devices."
Neither leaving them to their own devices nor to their own defenses
is a good idea.
http:/sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that I am re-connecting with unschooling/peaceful parenting and
although I haven't gone "mainstream" I have been leaving them to
their own defenses when they fight.-=-
The idiom is "leaving them to their own devices."
Neither leaving them to their own devices nor to their own defenses
is a good idea.
http:/sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vida
Hi Sandra,
Thanks for the correction. After living in Greece for 20 years, it
is amazing how you begin to forget the language. I find myself half
translating Greek and English in my mind.
I have read your articles and Joyces as well. They have been very
helpful. At times, when in the middle of a big fight it can be hard
to break the old habits and upgrade to newer ones. I keep striving,
and things are getting better. I just want to know if there is a way
to help her inner light glow stronger so that she can find a way out
of the "victim" role. I think the essence is her fear of making
mistakes and displeasing others, especially her sister, so she gives
in even though she wants something else. She just hates fighting.
Are there more possibilities that I'm not seeing here? (this is more
a question to myself, I realized you can't really answer that for
me). Like I said, from DAY 1, when I switched from being less
present with them to very present, things have turned around. The
more I say "yes" to Athena, for example, the less she demands and is
able to share. But I don't see *very* much change with Penny, mostly
because the dynamic is between the two of them. With me I see that
she is being more cuddly. That is a sign that she is feeling *safer*
with me. I don't know, perhaps I'm rushing the process.
Vida
Thanks for the correction. After living in Greece for 20 years, it
is amazing how you begin to forget the language. I find myself half
translating Greek and English in my mind.
I have read your articles and Joyces as well. They have been very
helpful. At times, when in the middle of a big fight it can be hard
to break the old habits and upgrade to newer ones. I keep striving,
and things are getting better. I just want to know if there is a way
to help her inner light glow stronger so that she can find a way out
of the "victim" role. I think the essence is her fear of making
mistakes and displeasing others, especially her sister, so she gives
in even though she wants something else. She just hates fighting.
Are there more possibilities that I'm not seeing here? (this is more
a question to myself, I realized you can't really answer that for
me). Like I said, from DAY 1, when I switched from being less
present with them to very present, things have turned around. The
more I say "yes" to Athena, for example, the less she demands and is
able to share. But I don't see *very* much change with Penny, mostly
because the dynamic is between the two of them. With me I see that
she is being more cuddly. That is a sign that she is feeling *safer*
with me. I don't know, perhaps I'm rushing the process.
Vida
Sandra Dodd
-=-The
more I say "yes" to Athena, for example, the less she demands and is
able to share. But I don't see *very* much change with Penny, mostly
because the dynamic is between the two of them. With me I see that
she is being more cuddly. That is a sign that she is feeling *safer*
with me. I don't know, perhaps I'm rushing the process.-=-
Any change is change. Some people take a while to process their
thoughts; some people seem to do it immediately. If you saw any
change, that's progress.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
more I say "yes" to Athena, for example, the less she demands and is
able to share. But I don't see *very* much change with Penny, mostly
because the dynamic is between the two of them. With me I see that
she is being more cuddly. That is a sign that she is feeling *safer*
with me. I don't know, perhaps I'm rushing the process.-=-
Any change is change. Some people take a while to process their
thoughts; some people seem to do it immediately. If you saw any
change, that's progress.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]