Kathleen Whitfield

My 8yo is delighted by the fact that "Bill" is short for William and she's
wondering how the heck that happened.

Our explorations in Google and Wikipedia haven't turned up the answer.

I'm looking for other resources to find the answer, online or otherwise.

Thanks!

Kathleen
in Riverside

Sandra Dodd

-=-My 8yo is delighted by the fact that "Bill" is short for William
and she's
wondering how the heck that happened.

Our explorations in Google and Wikipedia haven't turned up the
answer.-=-

"B" and "V" are really close in a person's mouth. W is close but
not AS close. But in German, "Wilhelm" starts with a "v" sound, and
the name "William" has several forms back 800 years and so that were
spelled Gwy- and "Erwilliam" and other lip or lip and tooth
things. (bi-labial fricative or libiodental, for those who care to
get technical)...

Will and Willy were very common nicknames for William in the
Renaissance and Middle Ages. Will was very common, and so we have
"Wilson" (also "Williams" and "Williamson," but Wilson is more
common than either, I think).

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David Harris

searching with keywords "origin" and "nickname", I came to:

http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=bill

which looks like an interesting start for your journey with your daughter.



--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-My 8yo is delighted by the fact that "Bill" is short for William
> and she's
> wondering how the heck that happened.
>
> Our explorations in Google and Wikipedia haven't turned up the
> answer.-=-
>
> "B" and "V" are really close in a person's mouth. W is close but
> not AS close. But in German, "Wilhelm" starts with a "v" sound, and
> the name "William" has several forms back 800 years and so that were
> spelled Gwy- and "Erwilliam" and other lip or lip and tooth
> things. (bi-labial fricative or libiodental, for those who care to
> get technical)...
>
> Will and Willy were very common nicknames for William in the
> Renaissance and Middle Ages. Will was very common, and so we have
> "Wilson" (also "Williams" and "Williamson," but Wilson is more
> common than either, I think).
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 22, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Kathleen Whitfield wrote:

> My 8yo is delighted by the fact that "Bill" is short for William
> and she's
> wondering how the heck that happened.

At a couple of periods in English history the pool of acceptable
names shrank. (I don't know why.) So a town would have lots and lots
of Williams and Richards and Margarets and just a few other names.
(If I'm remembering right, families might give their kids all the
same name and then just use nicknames and diminutives.) It was
already common to tack on a descriptor that identified someone's
profession (Baker), location (Applegate) or feature (Whitehead) and a
town might even have more than one Richard Baker. So it became common
to come up with nicknames that rhymed and diminutives (an ending
often used for a child, for example we add -y or -ie: Doug --> Dougie)

Just a few examples of Medieval nicknames:

Dick, Hick and Rick (I think Richard was pronounced Rikard at the
time those were created so the Rich nickname is much newer)
Dickon, Dickcox (which is a double diminutive), Digg, Diggle
(another double diminutive)
Hitch, Hitchcock (double diminutive)

Roger - Hodge, Hodgkin, Dodger, Dodgin

Will, Willot, Willcox, Willkin

Mary - Marian, Mariott

Margaret - Margery, Magg, Madge, Meg Megget, Peg (which might have
been influenced by the meaning of Margaret which is Pearl).

Bill is actually much newer (so there aren't any surnames built from
that nickname like there are for Will: Willson, Wilkinson, etc.) but
probably came from the old practice of rhyming nicknames. There's a
long history for the Cockneys to give nicknames that rhyme with
things like:

Apples = apples and pears = stairs ("Get up them apples!")
Bread = bread and honey = money
China = china plate = mate ("Alright, me old china!")

http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/

so there there's probably some connection there.

Joyce

Kathleen Whitfield

Thanks for all the help on this!

Kathleen


on 2/22/07 10:01 AM, Joyce Fetteroll at fetteroll@... wrote:


At a couple of periods in English history the pool of acceptable
names shrank. (I don't know why.) So a town would have lots and lots
of Williams and Richards and Margarets and just a few other names.
(If I'm remembering right, families might give their kids all the
same name and then just use nicknames and diminutives.) I


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

halfshadow1

-A woman told me she calls her son Bo, his name is William but she
said it's a form of it. Is that true?-- In
[email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Kathleen Whitfield wrote:
>
> > My 8yo is delighted by the fact that "Bill" is short for William
> > and she's
> > wondering how the heck that happened.
>
> At a couple of periods in English history the pool of acceptable
> names shrank. (I don't know why.) So a town would have lots and lots
> of Williams and Richards and Margarets and just a few other names.
> (If I'm remembering right, families might give their kids all the
> same name and then just use nicknames and diminutives.) It was
> already common to tack on a descriptor that identified someone's
> profession (Baker), location (Applegate) or feature (Whitehead) and a
> town might even have more than one Richard Baker. So it became common
> to come up with nicknames that rhymed and diminutives (an ending
> often used for a child, for example we add -y or -ie: Doug --> Dougie)
>
> Just a few examples of Medieval nicknames:
>
> Dick, Hick and Rick (I think Richard was pronounced Rikard at the
> time those were created so the Rich nickname is much newer)
> Dickon, Dickcox (which is a double diminutive), Digg, Diggle
> (another double diminutive)
> Hitch, Hitchcock (double diminutive)
>
> Roger - Hodge, Hodgkin, Dodger, Dodgin
>
> Will, Willot, Willcox, Willkin
>
> Mary - Marian, Mariott
>
> Margaret - Margery, Magg, Madge, Meg Megget, Peg (which might have
> been influenced by the meaning of Margaret which is Pearl).
>
> Bill is actually much newer (so there aren't any surnames built from
> that nickname like there are for Will: Willson, Wilkinson, etc.) but
> probably came from the old practice of rhyming nicknames. There's a
> long history for the Cockneys to give nicknames that rhyme with
> things like:
>
> Apples = apples and pears = stairs ("Get up them apples!")
> Bread = bread and honey = money
> China = china plate = mate ("Alright, me old china!")
>
> http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/
>
> so there there's probably some connection there.
>
> Joyce
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:39 PM, halfshadow1 wrote:
> -A woman told me she calls her son Bo, his name is William but she
> said it's a form of it. Is that true?-- In

None of my baby name books mention a connection. It's usually short
of Beauregard, Boaz and even Robert.

But I did find this at thinkbabynames.com:

> Bo - Name Meaning and Origin
>
> The boy's and girl's name Bo \bo\ is pronounced boh. It is of
> Scandinavian origin. Short form of Robert and Beauregard; nickname
> of William. Usually a nickname used for boys and, due to actress Bo
> Derek, for girls. Football coach Bo Schembechler; sports star Bo
> Jackson. See also Beau.

(None of whom, by the way, were named William ;-)

It's also mentioned at Wikipedia in the list of related names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_(name)

But no one's saying why!

I wonder if "bi" is hard for young kids to say and they end up saying
"bo" instead of "Bill"??

Joyce

Vicki Dennis

The only "Bo" not "Beau" I know is an adult and is actually the "son of
Bill/William" although possibly a William Jr.

I usually assumed it was a nickname akin to the Southern U.S. usage of Bud
or Buck or Buddy or Butch.
Or maybe similar to the phenomenon that seems to have every Irish Catholic
boy called "Paddy" at one time or another.

vicki

On 2/23/07, Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:39 PM, halfshadow1 wrote:
> > -A woman told me she calls her son Bo, his name is William but she
> > said it's a form of it. Is that true?-- In
>
> None of my baby name books mention a connection. It's usually short
> of Beauregard, Boaz and even Robert.
>
> But I did find this at thinkbabynames.com:
>
> > Bo - Name Meaning and Origin
> >
> > The boy's and girl's name Bo \bo\ is pronounced boh. It is of
> > Scandinavian origin. Short form of Robert and Beauregard; nickname
> > of William. Usually a nickname used for boys and, due to actress Bo
> > Derek, for girls. Football coach Bo Schembechler; sports star Bo
> > Jackson. See also Beau.
>
> (None of whom, by the way, were named William ;-)
>
> It's also mentioned at Wikipedia in the list of related names.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_(name)
>
> But no one's saying why!
>
> I wonder if "bi" is hard for young kids to say and they end up saying
> "bo" instead of "Bill"??
>
> Joyce
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]