Unschooling at last
winteryspruce
I guess I finally get what people mean when they say they found Jesus and
were saved. That 's how I'm feeling about unschooling.
I am questioning so many of the old beliefs I carry that block joy.
I feel overwhelmed with grief when I think of the ten years I have been
parenting my son from a place of judgement. I think that is a normal reaction
because it is a lose. I feel inspired to parent from a place of unconditional love
and acceptance (which I actually thought I was doing before). I could cry
about the 10 years wasted or say "Thank God he's just turning 10" ! There is
still time!
I feel grateful to all of you who contribute and share and especially Sandra
Dodd who's writings have changed my life.
My last thread of fear is attached to video games and television.(At least it's
only a thread. A month ago it was a steel cable). I've let go of total control but
still loosely limit time. I let him buy a hunting game that he's been wanting
where you kill animals. I tried watching while he played because he wanted
me to and it was more than I could handle. I felt so disturbed by it. I bowed out
as unjudmentally as I could but didn't tell him that he couldn't play. It was a big
step for me. I don't understand it though, why he would enjoy a game like that.
I'm really hung up on this video thing.
were saved. That 's how I'm feeling about unschooling.
I am questioning so many of the old beliefs I carry that block joy.
I feel overwhelmed with grief when I think of the ten years I have been
parenting my son from a place of judgement. I think that is a normal reaction
because it is a lose. I feel inspired to parent from a place of unconditional love
and acceptance (which I actually thought I was doing before). I could cry
about the 10 years wasted or say "Thank God he's just turning 10" ! There is
still time!
I feel grateful to all of you who contribute and share and especially Sandra
Dodd who's writings have changed my life.
My last thread of fear is attached to video games and television.(At least it's
only a thread. A month ago it was a steel cable). I've let go of total control but
still loosely limit time. I let him buy a hunting game that he's been wanting
where you kill animals. I tried watching while he played because he wanted
me to and it was more than I could handle. I felt so disturbed by it. I bowed out
as unjudmentally as I could but didn't tell him that he couldn't play. It was a big
step for me. I don't understand it though, why he would enjoy a game like that.
I'm really hung up on this video thing.
Sandra Dodd
wintryspruce/beelight, if you want to keep your name secret that's
okay (I guess) but I did quote you without a proper name here:
http://sandradodd.com/ifonly
-=-I am questioning so many of the old beliefs I carry that block joy.
I feel overwhelmed with grief -=-
Well feeling overwhelmed with grief is one of those certain joy
blockers. <g>
-=-I feel grateful to all of you who contribute and share and
especially Sandra
Dodd who's writings have changed my life.-=-
You're welcome! I'm glad your son's life is opening up.
I didn't quote your video games paragraph on the "if only" page,
because I think you'll get over it. Ren used to be anti-TV, and I
quoted her, and then I added in when she changed her mind. That's
pretty cool to read. It's here: http://sandradodd/t/debate
Ren's specific part (if the links don't work, go to the link above
and read a little over halfway down):
By ren on Monday, August 6, 2001 - 03:15 am:
I'm probably one of the only other people here that do believe it's
ok to limit TV when necessary. I find my one son getting very lazy
and not interested in other activities for DAYS on end if I don't say
anything. If I say "ok, enough TV for today" and suggest that we do
something, he is usually glad for it. If he's in the middle of
something he really wants to watch I just say "ok, when that's over
do you think we could go do something?" and he always is fine with
that. I have relaxed a lot over the whole issue but I think there are
some kids that are more addictive and affected by it than others. I
just disagree with total self regulation on that topic....sorry. I do
believe it is best to be relaxed over it and I'm glad that self-
regulation works for all of you. Ren changed her mind about this
later.read about her change of heart
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
okay (I guess) but I did quote you without a proper name here:
http://sandradodd.com/ifonly
-=-I am questioning so many of the old beliefs I carry that block joy.
I feel overwhelmed with grief -=-
Well feeling overwhelmed with grief is one of those certain joy
blockers. <g>
-=-I feel grateful to all of you who contribute and share and
especially Sandra
Dodd who's writings have changed my life.-=-
You're welcome! I'm glad your son's life is opening up.
I didn't quote your video games paragraph on the "if only" page,
because I think you'll get over it. Ren used to be anti-TV, and I
quoted her, and then I added in when she changed her mind. That's
pretty cool to read. It's here: http://sandradodd/t/debate
Ren's specific part (if the links don't work, go to the link above
and read a little over halfway down):
By ren on Monday, August 6, 2001 - 03:15 am:
I'm probably one of the only other people here that do believe it's
ok to limit TV when necessary. I find my one son getting very lazy
and not interested in other activities for DAYS on end if I don't say
anything. If I say "ok, enough TV for today" and suggest that we do
something, he is usually glad for it. If he's in the middle of
something he really wants to watch I just say "ok, when that's over
do you think we could go do something?" and he always is fine with
that. I have relaxed a lot over the whole issue but I think there are
some kids that are more addictive and affected by it than others. I
just disagree with total self regulation on that topic....sorry. I do
believe it is best to be relaxed over it and I'm glad that self-
regulation works for all of you. Ren changed her mind about this
later.read about her change of heart
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
<I let him buy a hunting game that he's been wanting
where you kill animals. I tried watching while he played because he wanted
me to and it was more than I could handle. I felt so disturbed by it.>
I challenge you to actually sit down and play the game for a while. My dh
is a big gamer. He plays on-line with other gamers and he sometimes plays
with my dd�s when they are interested. It used to bother me a lot. It
wasn�t until I actually sat down and played with them that I found out how
different it is when you are playing. It isn�t about killing actual people
(it�s much worse to watch than play) and when you are playing you get caught
up in the challenge of it all and you just want to kill them before they
kill you. It�s like cops and robbers as a kid. It doesn�t make you
violent. My dh is one of the most gentle souls I know, yet he plays these
games often. I am huge animal lover and the hunting one might be harder for
me than the people shooting one but until I�ve actually played it I would
not pass judgment on it. And even then, it may not be the same for you as
it is for him. He may just find it a challenge as a man to be able to hunt
effectively. You are probably seeing it as killing innocent animals.
Either way, it�s just a video game and he�s not out plucking of squirrels
with a BB gun behind your back.
Angela S.
HYPERLINK "mailto:game-enthusiast@..."game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
where you kill animals. I tried watching while he played because he wanted
me to and it was more than I could handle. I felt so disturbed by it.>
I challenge you to actually sit down and play the game for a while. My dh
is a big gamer. He plays on-line with other gamers and he sometimes plays
with my dd�s when they are interested. It used to bother me a lot. It
wasn�t until I actually sat down and played with them that I found out how
different it is when you are playing. It isn�t about killing actual people
(it�s much worse to watch than play) and when you are playing you get caught
up in the challenge of it all and you just want to kill them before they
kill you. It�s like cops and robbers as a kid. It doesn�t make you
violent. My dh is one of the most gentle souls I know, yet he plays these
games often. I am huge animal lover and the hunting one might be harder for
me than the people shooting one but until I�ve actually played it I would
not pass judgment on it. And even then, it may not be the same for you as
it is for him. He may just find it a challenge as a man to be able to hunt
effectively. You are probably seeing it as killing innocent animals.
Either way, it�s just a video game and he�s not out plucking of squirrels
with a BB gun behind your back.
Angela S.
HYPERLINK "mailto:game-enthusiast@..."game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
laura g
http://www.whygendermatters.com/
check this book out. he does a nice job of explaining some of that
video/violence stuff
check this book out. he does a nice job of explaining some of that
video/violence stuff
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 4, 2006, at 3:56 AM, winteryspruce wrote:
trash when other kids crumpled. I still, as an adult, can't rip
wrapping paper off gifts. I have to remove it neatly. I just have a
problem destroying things people have spent time crafting. (Even
school notices ;-) My daughter Kat is very similar. And yet we both
had a lot of fun playing Godzilla Destroy All Monsters and not only
destroy monsters but cities too.
Kat will say mean things to characters she doesn't like and send them
ugly shirts in Animal Crossing. But in real life she's very conscious
of not hurting people's feelings.
I read murder mysteries, but it doesn't make me want to murder
anyone. (Or question people who might be murders to find the real
killer ;-) I like to watch strong characters like Xena and Buffy and
anime characters too numerous to mention slice and dice the bad guys
and other nasties. It doesn't make me want to take up a sword and
kill things or feel depressed that I'll never master Kamehameha times
ten and blow up planets. I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and could
wallop a board or a pad pretty well but it didn't make me want to
kick someone in the face.
There's something satisfying in taking out your aggressions on things
but in real life there are bad consequences you want to avoid. But in
games -- and acting and writing and art and pretending -- it's
possible to act those out and release it without doing anyone harm.
It doesn't make me want to smash things in real life because I know
the real consequences are still there. I think it's a very healthy
way to play out needs you don't want to play out in real life.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't understand it though, why he would enjoy a game like that.When I was a kid I used to fold up papers and drop them into the
> I'm really hung up on this video thing.
trash when other kids crumpled. I still, as an adult, can't rip
wrapping paper off gifts. I have to remove it neatly. I just have a
problem destroying things people have spent time crafting. (Even
school notices ;-) My daughter Kat is very similar. And yet we both
had a lot of fun playing Godzilla Destroy All Monsters and not only
destroy monsters but cities too.
Kat will say mean things to characters she doesn't like and send them
ugly shirts in Animal Crossing. But in real life she's very conscious
of not hurting people's feelings.
I read murder mysteries, but it doesn't make me want to murder
anyone. (Or question people who might be murders to find the real
killer ;-) I like to watch strong characters like Xena and Buffy and
anime characters too numerous to mention slice and dice the bad guys
and other nasties. It doesn't make me want to take up a sword and
kill things or feel depressed that I'll never master Kamehameha times
ten and blow up planets. I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and could
wallop a board or a pad pretty well but it didn't make me want to
kick someone in the face.
There's something satisfying in taking out your aggressions on things
but in real life there are bad consequences you want to avoid. But in
games -- and acting and writing and art and pretending -- it's
possible to act those out and release it without doing anyone harm.
It doesn't make me want to smash things in real life because I know
the real consequences are still there. I think it's a very healthy
way to play out needs you don't want to play out in real life.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I am huge animal lover and the hunting one might be harder for
me than the people shooting one but until I’ve actually played it I
would
not pass judgment on it.-=-
That's worth thinking about seriously. <G>
Why would it be harder to kill a squirrel or a duck (and by
"squirrel" or "duck," I mean a pixel-built cartoon in the shape of
one) than a person (pixel-built-thereof)? Or just harder to kill a
deer or a gorilla? I'm okay, personally, with killing spiders but
have a harder time with mice; yet I set two mouse traps yesterday
when Kirby said the cats had been staring at the stove and one was on
the counter. Those are big mouse-clues.
All of that is much more real-world than a video game.
When people played Galaxy-this'n'that games in the 70's and early
80's, no one was bemoaning the violence of shooting down space ships.
It's the same programming, whether the "space ships" are mushrooms or
falling bees, or ducks, or blocks of wood or color.
The kids can clearly tell the difference between pattern games and
violence.
When a mother can NOT tell the difference, she looks less intelligent
than she should.
Sandra
me than the people shooting one but until I’ve actually played it I
would
not pass judgment on it.-=-
That's worth thinking about seriously. <G>
Why would it be harder to kill a squirrel or a duck (and by
"squirrel" or "duck," I mean a pixel-built cartoon in the shape of
one) than a person (pixel-built-thereof)? Or just harder to kill a
deer or a gorilla? I'm okay, personally, with killing spiders but
have a harder time with mice; yet I set two mouse traps yesterday
when Kirby said the cats had been staring at the stove and one was on
the counter. Those are big mouse-clues.
All of that is much more real-world than a video game.
When people played Galaxy-this'n'that games in the 70's and early
80's, no one was bemoaning the violence of shooting down space ships.
It's the same programming, whether the "space ships" are mushrooms or
falling bees, or ducks, or blocks of wood or color.
The kids can clearly tell the difference between pattern games and
violence.
When a mother can NOT tell the difference, she looks less intelligent
than she should.
Sandra
Angela S.
<<-=- I am huge animal lover and the hunting one might be harder for me
than the people shooting one but until I’ve actually played it I would not
pass judgment on it.-=-
That's worth thinking about seriously. <G>>>>
LOL! I think because it's easy for me to see people as the bad guys. It's
harder for me to see animals in that light. They just seem so innocent,
esp. deer or other prey animals. (like big fuzzy horses!) I realize that
some animals kill and eat each other, but that seems justifiable. Our cats
just kill for fun and leave the mole or mouse carcasses on my doorstep like
a prize. I always feel bad for those mice but not enough to keep the cats
inside. I just wish they'd eat them, all of them and not leave them for me
to clean up.
I suspect that if I sat down and actually played a hunting game that I could
get into it just like any other type of game. It's always harder to watch
them than it is to play them.
Angela S.
game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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than the people shooting one but until I’ve actually played it I would not
pass judgment on it.-=-
That's worth thinking about seriously. <G>>>>
LOL! I think because it's easy for me to see people as the bad guys. It's
harder for me to see animals in that light. They just seem so innocent,
esp. deer or other prey animals. (like big fuzzy horses!) I realize that
some animals kill and eat each other, but that seems justifiable. Our cats
just kill for fun and leave the mole or mouse carcasses on my doorstep like
a prize. I always feel bad for those mice but not enough to keep the cats
inside. I just wish they'd eat them, all of them and not leave them for me
to clean up.
I suspect that if I sat down and actually played a hunting game that I could
get into it just like any other type of game. It's always harder to watch
them than it is to play them.
Angela S.
game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
old knows a story or game is different from reality - she catches me
every time, and explains to me in a very patronizing tone "Yes, Mer,
this is a Game. In the real world..." Oops. Sometimes I'm a slow
learner.
---Meredith (Mo 5)
>> The kids can clearly tell the difference between pattern games andintelligent
> violence.
>
> When a mother can NOT tell the difference, she looks less
> than she should.LOL! I'm always chagrined when I say something to "make sure" my 5yr
old knows a story or game is different from reality - she catches me
every time, and explains to me in a very patronizing tone "Yes, Mer,
this is a Game. In the real world..." Oops. Sometimes I'm a slow
learner.
---Meredith (Mo 5)
queenjane555
>I tried watching while he played because he wanted me to and it wasMy son got a new laptop from his father for his birthday, and he's
>more than I could handle. I felt so disturbed by it. I bowed out
>as unjudmentally as I could but didn't tell him that he couldn't
>play.
been attached to it for a week now (he even sleeps with it.) He's
been playing a game called Fable for hours a day since last
Saturday. Yesterday I sat down and watched with him...he explained
that his hero was "good" (you can be good or evil in the game based
upon the decisions you make), even wore a little halo, and all the
people in the towns cheer when he comes (its really funny)...so he
goes into a new town, and decides he doesnt want to be "good"
anymore, he wants to try being evil. So he starts slaughtering
people left and right, mostly guards with weapons. Then he (meaning,
his character)walks into a house, and there is a defenseless woman
who starts complimenting him (hoping he'll spare her life)...i'm
thinking "He can't kill this defenseless old lady!!" but in the end,
he did. I then had to remember what Dan Vilter said during his
presentation on videogames at the L&L conference in Sept.: Its not
real.
Its not real. Our kids *know* that....my son would NEVER hurt a
defenseless old lady cowering in her house. But it wasnt a real
woman. She doesnt exist. She has no life. She is just a pixilated
image, and she couldve been *anything*...she just happened to "look
human." And my son got joy out of destroying her (it), not because
killing people is cool, but destroying a target in a game is fun.
His "evil-ness" went way up in the game. I realized that it was
fine, that it actually was kind of fun to see how many people you
can take out in such a short time.
I think his character is back to being a hero, based upon him doing
some good deeds.
Its amazing how you see the world once you put respecting kids on a
higher level than maintaining "control" as a parent...in the same
day i read an article in some magazine about limiting videogames,
which including maintaining a "half hour" rule on school days and
only an hour of playing on weekend days. I thought "How the heck can
the kid get anything done in a game in an hour?!" Then we were
watching this new show on tv called "6 Degrees", and the dad told
the son to stop playing his game, it was bedtime. The kid said "A
couple more minutes, I'm almost done with this level!!" The dad made
him turn it off immediately, and then when the kid complained he
smashed the gameboy. My first thought was "Doesnt this parent know
that there are only certain "save spots" in the game, and the child
will lose all his hard work if he stops now!?!" Its so much better
to be on your child's side.
Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-His "evil-ness" went way up in the game. I realized that it was
fine, that it actually was kind of fun to see how many people you
can take out in such a short time.
-=-I think his character is back to being a hero, based upon him doing
some good deeds. -=-
I watched some of Marty's bad-guy behaviors in Knights of the Old
Republic (I think it's called), a Star Wars Jedi-Knight game. You
can make choices to be a good Jedi or a bad Jedi. He played the
whole game both ways.
Holly played Harvest Moon as well as she could one time until she was
rich and popular and then started doing all the wrong things, to see
what all the program had in it. She gave gifts to people she wasn't
married to. She quit feeding her farm animals, and quit weeding her
farm. She started buying everything and spending all her money and
giving her stuff away or throwing it in ponds. She took a chicken to
church and left it there. It was kind of a hoot!
Now if I were to show that to some of the "half hour limit / video
games are satanic" people, would they say "One mother encouraged her
daughter to take a chicken to church and leave it there"?
No doubt.
-=-The dad made
him turn it off immediately, and then when the kid complained he
smashed the gameboy. -=-
STUPID dad smashed any hope of a close relationship of trust and love
with his biological son. That boy won't trust his dad about anything
anymore. Stupid dad.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fine, that it actually was kind of fun to see how many people you
can take out in such a short time.
-=-I think his character is back to being a hero, based upon him doing
some good deeds. -=-
I watched some of Marty's bad-guy behaviors in Knights of the Old
Republic (I think it's called), a Star Wars Jedi-Knight game. You
can make choices to be a good Jedi or a bad Jedi. He played the
whole game both ways.
Holly played Harvest Moon as well as she could one time until she was
rich and popular and then started doing all the wrong things, to see
what all the program had in it. She gave gifts to people she wasn't
married to. She quit feeding her farm animals, and quit weeding her
farm. She started buying everything and spending all her money and
giving her stuff away or throwing it in ponds. She took a chicken to
church and left it there. It was kind of a hoot!
Now if I were to show that to some of the "half hour limit / video
games are satanic" people, would they say "One mother encouraged her
daughter to take a chicken to church and leave it there"?
No doubt.
-=-The dad made
him turn it off immediately, and then when the kid complained he
smashed the gameboy. -=-
STUPID dad smashed any hope of a close relationship of trust and love
with his biological son. That boy won't trust his dad about anything
anymore. Stupid dad.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-LOL! I think because it's easy for me to see people as the bad
guys. It's
harder for me to see animals in that light.-=-
Years ago Keith and I went to see Terminator and I was horrified. I
just hated it.
We went to see Commando, and I LOVED it. Saw it twice. Was happy.
Keith was mystified, and asked me why. I had to think, but I figured
it out.
In Terminator he went into public places, and private houses, and
killed women who were minding their own business. Normal women.
like me.
In Commando, there were soldiers killing soldiers. And not just any
soldiers, but willing voluntary mercenary soldiers with a personal
stake in what was going on. And it involved the rescue of a little
girl.
True Lies was fun just because it was funny. With a great script,
violence can be kind of hilarious. And that doesn't mean it's easier
for me to kill a mouse. And I was SURE that True Lies was fiction,
every moment I was watching it. It also has some fantastic acting
and some actors who are much more famous now than they were twelve
years ago.
Sandra
guys. It's
harder for me to see animals in that light.-=-
Years ago Keith and I went to see Terminator and I was horrified. I
just hated it.
We went to see Commando, and I LOVED it. Saw it twice. Was happy.
Keith was mystified, and asked me why. I had to think, but I figured
it out.
In Terminator he went into public places, and private houses, and
killed women who were minding their own business. Normal women.
like me.
In Commando, there were soldiers killing soldiers. And not just any
soldiers, but willing voluntary mercenary soldiers with a personal
stake in what was going on. And it involved the rescue of a little
girl.
True Lies was fun just because it was funny. With a great script,
violence can be kind of hilarious. And that doesn't mean it's easier
for me to kill a mouse. And I was SURE that True Lies was fiction,
every moment I was watching it. It also has some fantastic acting
and some actors who are much more famous now than they were twelve
years ago.
Sandra
Vickisue Gray
I can not play Grand Theft Auto. I respond terrible to sirens chasing me.
That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
Lol, I would have made a terrible criminal. Good thing I didn't chose
thief for my profession!
----- Original Message ----
From: Angela S. <game-enthusiast@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 11:58:14 AM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Unschooling at last
<<-=- I am huge animal lover and the hunting one might be harder for me
than the people shooting one but until I�ve actually played it I would not
pass judgment on it.-=-
That's worth thinking about seriously. <G>>>>
LOL! I think because it's easy for me to see people as the bad guys. It's
harder for me to see animals in that light. They just seem so innocent,
esp. deer or other prey animals. (like big fuzzy horses!) I realize that
some animals kill and eat each other, but that seems justifiable. Our cats
just kill for fun and leave the mole or mouse carcasses on my doorstep like
a prize. I always feel bad for those mice but not enough to keep the cats
inside. I just wish they'd eat them, all of them and not leave them for me
to clean up.
I suspect that if I sat down and actually played a hunting game that I could
get into it just like any other type of game. It's always harder to watch
them than it is to play them.
Angela S.
game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
Lol, I would have made a terrible criminal. Good thing I didn't chose
thief for my profession!
----- Original Message ----
From: Angela S. <game-enthusiast@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 11:58:14 AM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Unschooling at last
<<-=- I am huge animal lover and the hunting one might be harder for me
than the people shooting one but until I�ve actually played it I would not
pass judgment on it.-=-
That's worth thinking about seriously. <G>>>>
LOL! I think because it's easy for me to see people as the bad guys. It's
harder for me to see animals in that light. They just seem so innocent,
esp. deer or other prey animals. (like big fuzzy horses!) I realize that
some animals kill and eat each other, but that seems justifiable. Our cats
just kill for fun and leave the mole or mouse carcasses on my doorstep like
a prize. I always feel bad for those mice but not enough to keep the cats
inside. I just wish they'd eat them, all of them and not leave them for me
to clean up.
I suspect that if I sat down and actually played a hunting game that I could
get into it just like any other type of game. It's always harder to watch
them than it is to play them.
Angela S.
game-enthusiast@...
Life Is Good!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-
ME?
It desensitizes me?
Or by "you" does it mean "one"--anyone?
Did Red Riding Hood desensitize you to the eating of grandmas or the
destruction of big bad wolves?
Sandra
seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-
ME?
It desensitizes me?
Or by "you" does it mean "one"--anyone?
Did Red Riding Hood desensitize you to the eating of grandmas or the
destruction of big bad wolves?
Sandra
Vickisue Gray
Oh Yes!
I just can't bring myself to EAt Grandma
----- Original Message ----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 5:55:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Unschooling at last
-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-
ME?
It desensitizes me?
Or by "you" does it mean "one"--anyone?
Did Red Riding Hood desensitize you to the eating of grandmas or the
destruction of big bad wolves?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just can't bring myself to EAt Grandma
----- Original Message ----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 5:55:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Unschooling at last
-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-
ME?
It desensitizes me?
Or by "you" does it mean "one"--anyone?
Did Red Riding Hood desensitize you to the eating of grandmas or the
destruction of big bad wolves?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-~~
So a child that plays this game might become desensitized to real life
criminal behavior in your opinion? That's not my reality. I have four
children that play this game, two that play it with some regularity
and show zero interest in criminal activity and are appalled by
violent and criminal behavior in real life.
Play violence may desensitize people to play violence. That does not
equal a desensitization to real life violence. In order to become
desensitized to REAL violence, one has to be exposed to real violence.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-~~
So a child that plays this game might become desensitized to real life
criminal behavior in your opinion? That's not my reality. I have four
children that play this game, two that play it with some regularity
and show zero interest in criminal activity and are appalled by
violent and criminal behavior in real life.
Play violence may desensitize people to play violence. That does not
equal a desensitization to real life violence. In order to become
desensitized to REAL violence, one has to be exposed to real violence.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
"I think his character is back to being a hero, based upon him doing
some good deeds."
In Dungeons and Dragons you can change your alignment (how
good/evil/lawful you are) by one placement according to how your
character is acting during the game.
If you act out of character for your alignment, you can actually lose
intelligence ratings. A "lawful good" character would never hurt
anyone for no good reason, or break the law. A chaotic evil character
would be pretty hard to trust as they do whatever benefits themselves.
It's interesting to have all these dynamics and play a character
unlike yourself, trying to decide how THEY would act in any given
situation. *I* might turn around and hide, but I have to figure out
what my halfling rogue would do in the situation when faced with an
ogre.:)
Great fodder for storytelling, strategy, acting, human (or non-human)
behavior study etc...
Acting out as someone you're not is fun!! Where else can you practice
being evil or good? Much better in a game than real life.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
some good deeds."
In Dungeons and Dragons you can change your alignment (how
good/evil/lawful you are) by one placement according to how your
character is acting during the game.
If you act out of character for your alignment, you can actually lose
intelligence ratings. A "lawful good" character would never hurt
anyone for no good reason, or break the law. A chaotic evil character
would be pretty hard to trust as they do whatever benefits themselves.
It's interesting to have all these dynamics and play a character
unlike yourself, trying to decide how THEY would act in any given
situation. *I* might turn around and hide, but I have to figure out
what my halfling rogue would do in the situation when faced with an
ogre.:)
Great fodder for storytelling, strategy, acting, human (or non-human)
behavior study etc...
Acting out as someone you're not is fun!! Where else can you practice
being evil or good? Much better in a game than real life.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Vickisue Gray
So a flight sim does't teach you to fly planes?
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:00:22 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
~~-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-~~
So a child that plays this game might become desensitized to real life
criminal behavior in your opinion? That's not my reality. I have four
children that play this game, two that play it with some regularity
and show zero interest in criminal activity and are appalled by
violent and criminal behavior in real life.
Play violence may desensitize people to play violence. That does not
equal a desensitization to real life violence. In order to become
desensitized to REAL violence, one has to be exposed to real violence.
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:00:22 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
~~-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
-=-~~
So a child that plays this game might become desensitized to real life
criminal behavior in your opinion? That's not my reality. I have four
children that play this game, two that play it with some regularity
and show zero interest in criminal activity and are appalled by
violent and criminal behavior in real life.
Play violence may desensitize people to play violence. That does not
equal a desensitization to real life violence. In order to become
desensitized to REAL violence, one has to be exposed to real violence.
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
Yes, D&D is alive and well at our house as we have an 82yo Dungeon Master now living with us.
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:07:15 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
"I think his character is back to being a hero, based upon him doing
some good deeds."
In Dungeons and Dragons you can change your alignment (how
good/evil/lawful you are) by one placement according to how your
character is acting during the game.
If you act out of character for your alignment, you can actually lose
intelligence ratings. A "lawful good" character would never hurt
anyone for no good reason, or break the law. A chaotic evil character
would be pretty hard to trust as they do whatever benefits themselves.
It's interesting to have all these dynamics and play a character
unlike yourself, trying to decide how THEY would act in any given
situation. *I* might turn around and hide, but I have to figure out
what my halfling rogue would do in the situation when faced with an
ogre.:)
Great fodder for storytelling, strategy, acting, human (or non-human)
behavior study etc...
Acting out as someone you're not is fun!! Where else can you practice
being evil or good? Much better in a game than real life.
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:07:15 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
"I think his character is back to being a hero, based upon him doing
some good deeds."
In Dungeons and Dragons you can change your alignment (how
good/evil/lawful you are) by one placement according to how your
character is acting during the game.
If you act out of character for your alignment, you can actually lose
intelligence ratings. A "lawful good" character would never hurt
anyone for no good reason, or break the law. A chaotic evil character
would be pretty hard to trust as they do whatever benefits themselves.
It's interesting to have all these dynamics and play a character
unlike yourself, trying to decide how THEY would act in any given
situation. *I* might turn around and hide, but I have to figure out
what my halfling rogue would do in the situation when faced with an
ogre.:)
Great fodder for storytelling, strategy, acting, human (or non-human)
behavior study etc...
Acting out as someone you're not is fun!! Where else can you practice
being evil or good? Much better in a game than real life.
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555
>STUPID dad smashed any hope of a close relationship of trust andLuckily, not a real dad, or a real kid. Sad thing is, I'm sure the
>love with his biological son. That boy won't trust his dad about
>anything anymore. Stupid dad.
same scene plays out in real life all the time.
Katherine
queenjane555
>That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as itHmmm....do you know many unschooled kids who have turned to a life of
>seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
crime as a result of playing GTA?
My 10 yr old has played it, and has yet to crash a car, hire a
prostitute, or rob a store. I guess its just a matter of time eh?
Actually when he plays GTA, he spends alot of time crashing his car.
Over and over. I guess bumper cars could be blamed for criminal
behavior too...
Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as it
seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.-=-
What is your evidence that it desensitizes you/him/one to criminal
behavior?
Is this just something you heard and have repeated?
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
If we expect our children to become analytical thinkers, we need to
model that.
Sandra
seems
to desensitize you to criminal behavior.-=-
What is your evidence that it desensitizes you/him/one to criminal
behavior?
Is this just something you heard and have repeated?
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
If we expect our children to become analytical thinkers, we need to
model that.
Sandra
Vickisue Gray
to each their own
Video games do teach many things
The list is too long to bother to write
all the many ways video games teach.
Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.
----- Original Message ----
From: queenjane555 <queenjane555@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:31:27 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
crime as a result of playing GTA?
My 10 yr old has played it, and has yet to crash a car, hire a
prostitute, or rob a store. I guess its just a matter of time eh?
Actually when he plays GTA, he spends alot of time crashing his car.
Over and over. I guess bumper cars could be blamed for criminal
behavior too...
Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Video games do teach many things
The list is too long to bother to write
all the many ways video games teach.
Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.
----- Original Message ----
From: queenjane555 <queenjane555@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:31:27 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
>That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as itHmmm....do you know many unschooled kids who have turned to a life of
>seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
crime as a result of playing GTA?
My 10 yr old has played it, and has yet to crash a car, hire a
prostitute, or rob a store. I guess its just a matter of time eh?
Actually when he plays GTA, he spends alot of time crashing his car.
Over and over. I guess bumper cars could be blamed for criminal
behavior too...
Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa
I missed the earlier part of the discussion... what is the GTA game?
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: queenjane555
Date: 11/04/06 17:35:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
crime as a result of playing GTA?
My 10 yr old has played it, and has yet to crash a car, hire a
prostitute, or rob a store. I guess its just a matter of time eh?
Actually when he plays GTA, he spends alot of time crashing his car.
Over and over. I guess bumper cars could be blamed for criminal
behavior too...
Katherine
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: queenjane555
Date: 11/04/06 17:35:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
>That's one of the few games that we don't let our 9yo play, as itHmmm....do you know many unschooled kids who have turned to a life of
>seems to desensitize you to criminal behavior.
crime as a result of playing GTA?
My 10 yr old has played it, and has yet to crash a car, hire a
prostitute, or rob a store. I guess its just a matter of time eh?
Actually when he plays GTA, he spends alot of time crashing his car.
Over and over. I guess bumper cars could be blamed for criminal
behavior too...
Katherine
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
What is your evidence that it desensitizes you/him/one to criminal
behavior?
Actually, I have quite a bit of evidence as I have worked in Law Enforcement for twenty years.
If you need a particular example, The Deltona Murders was over an Xbox, and the deaths contributed to a style of killing from one of the games.
Was it a games influence? Probably not as most people wouldn't emulate video murder in real life.
Why did it happen? The debates could last forever (and have)
9/11 terrorists were said to train on a flight simulator that had the exact pattern they flew.
In the game, you are to fly between the towers but as it's a game, you can fly into the towers.
My son plays math attacks, and DS Brainage & Brain Academy...guess what?
His math is sharper then ever.
We have a friend who designs/creates military video games to train the troops.
It has been proven to be an excellent training tool.
If you choose to believe different then me, that is your right, I am not trying to win you over to my way. My son has learned so much from video games that we have chosen to wait till he is older for that particular one.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
behavior?
Actually, I have quite a bit of evidence as I have worked in Law Enforcement for twenty years.
If you need a particular example, The Deltona Murders was over an Xbox, and the deaths contributed to a style of killing from one of the games.
Was it a games influence? Probably not as most people wouldn't emulate video murder in real life.
Why did it happen? The debates could last forever (and have)
9/11 terrorists were said to train on a flight simulator that had the exact pattern they flew.
In the game, you are to fly between the towers but as it's a game, you can fly into the towers.
My son plays math attacks, and DS Brainage & Brain Academy...guess what?
His math is sharper then ever.
We have a friend who designs/creates military video games to train the troops.
It has been proven to be an excellent training tool.
If you choose to believe different then me, that is your right, I am not trying to win you over to my way. My son has learned so much from video games that we have chosen to wait till he is older for that particular one.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.-=-
Really?
As some criminals use math or physics, should video games from which
kids can learn math or physics be limited by parents to prevent
future criminality?
-=-to each their own-=-
In the world, generally, that's fine.
On an unschooling discussion list, that's not fine.
-=-Video games do teach many things
The list is too long to bother to write
all the many ways video games teach.-=-
I'm sorry you find it a bother.
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.-=-
But whether to play a particular game in your home is not up to the
individual?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is up to the individual.-=-
Really?
As some criminals use math or physics, should video games from which
kids can learn math or physics be limited by parents to prevent
future criminality?
-=-to each their own-=-
In the world, generally, that's fine.
On an unschooling discussion list, that's not fine.
-=-Video games do teach many things
The list is too long to bother to write
all the many ways video games teach.-=-
I'm sorry you find it a bother.
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.-=-
But whether to play a particular game in your home is not up to the
individual?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I missed the earlier part of the discussion... what is the GTA
game?-=-
Grand Theft Auto
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
game?-=-
Grand Theft Auto
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
Point taken.
----- Original Message ----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 7:08:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.- =-
Really?
As some criminals use math or physics, should video games from which
kids can learn math or physics be limited by parents to prevent
future criminality?
-=-to each their own-=-
In the world, generally, that's fine.
On an unschooling discussion list, that's not fine.
-=-Video games do teach many things
The list is too long to bother to write
all the many ways video games teach.-=-
I'm sorry you find it a bother.
http://sandradodd. com/videogames
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.- =-
But whether to play a particular game in your home is not up to the
individual?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2006 7:08:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling at last
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.- =-
Really?
As some criminals use math or physics, should video games from which
kids can learn math or physics be limited by parents to prevent
future criminality?
-=-to each their own-=-
In the world, generally, that's fine.
On an unschooling discussion list, that's not fine.
-=-Video games do teach many things
The list is too long to bother to write
all the many ways video games teach.-=-
I'm sorry you find it a bother.
http://sandradodd. com/videogames
-=-Whether one uses that info for good or bad
is up to the individual.- =-
But whether to play a particular game in your home is not up to the
individual?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If you need a particular example, The Deltona Murders was over an
Xbox, and the deaths contributed to a style of killing from one of
the games.
Was it a games influence? Probably not as most people wouldn't
emulate video murder in real life.
Why did it happen? The debates could last forever (and have)-=-
You just said "probably not."
-=-If you choose to believe different then me, that is your right, I
am not trying to win you over to my way.-=-
The purpose of this list is to discuss how unschooling works. If
arguments are based on logic that will help other families, that's
best for the list itself, and for those who read it.
-=-My son has learned so much from video games that we have chosen to
wait till he is older for that particular one. -=-
My boys are 17 and 20. They've bought their own games for years.
They've bought their own gaming systems for years. They don't have
GTA. The last purchase was Final Fantasy XII. The next intended is
Guitar Hero II. I'm not recommending buying that game for anyone.
I'm suggesting that choices of children, given wide options, are
rarely the evilly predicted choices of the mainstream warnings.
My kids have both played GTA elsewhere, but didn't decide to buy it
based on that, nor did they have dealings with drug dealers, hookers,
nor even consider stealing cars after that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Xbox, and the deaths contributed to a style of killing from one of
the games.
Was it a games influence? Probably not as most people wouldn't
emulate video murder in real life.
Why did it happen? The debates could last forever (and have)-=-
You just said "probably not."
-=-If you choose to believe different then me, that is your right, I
am not trying to win you over to my way.-=-
The purpose of this list is to discuss how unschooling works. If
arguments are based on logic that will help other families, that's
best for the list itself, and for those who read it.
-=-My son has learned so much from video games that we have chosen to
wait till he is older for that particular one. -=-
My boys are 17 and 20. They've bought their own games for years.
They've bought their own gaming systems for years. They don't have
GTA. The last purchase was Final Fantasy XII. The next intended is
Guitar Hero II. I'm not recommending buying that game for anyone.
I'm suggesting that choices of children, given wide options, are
rarely the evilly predicted choices of the mainstream warnings.
My kids have both played GTA elsewhere, but didn't decide to buy it
based on that, nor did they have dealings with drug dealers, hookers,
nor even consider stealing cars after that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***The Deltona Murders was over an Xbox, and the deaths contributed to a
style of killing from one of the games.***
Oh, I love this game!
The 1929 murderers of Bobby Franks were college graduates, intelligent -
one spoke five languages! This must be evidence that intelligence, college
and an interest in foreign language could lead to murder. Good story if
you google Leopold/Loeb .
William Corder, who murdered Maria Marten in 1827 was a school teacher. As
a kid I suspected teachers were criminals...
Theo Durrant was a medical student when he killed two women in 1895. In a
church! Maybe it's the study of medicine causes criminal behaviors. Maybe
it's the worship of God.
When serial killer Fritz Haarmann started killing people in 1918 he liked to
bake and smoke cigars.
I could site LOTS more and I chose these because they were killing people
before TV, before rock and roll, before movies and before video games. <g>
None of these guys played GTA.
People blamed the devil for a long time. People blamed dime store novels.
Today people blame the media. I still blame parents. (and sometimes
teachers<g>)
Deb Lewis
style of killing from one of the games.***
Oh, I love this game!
The 1929 murderers of Bobby Franks were college graduates, intelligent -
one spoke five languages! This must be evidence that intelligence, college
and an interest in foreign language could lead to murder. Good story if
you google Leopold/Loeb .
William Corder, who murdered Maria Marten in 1827 was a school teacher. As
a kid I suspected teachers were criminals...
Theo Durrant was a medical student when he killed two women in 1895. In a
church! Maybe it's the study of medicine causes criminal behaviors. Maybe
it's the worship of God.
When serial killer Fritz Haarmann started killing people in 1918 he liked to
bake and smoke cigars.
I could site LOTS more and I chose these because they were killing people
before TV, before rock and roll, before movies and before video games. <g>
None of these guys played GTA.
People blamed the devil for a long time. People blamed dime store novels.
Today people blame the media. I still blame parents. (and sometimes
teachers<g>)
Deb Lewis
Joe & Dayna Martin
-=-and the dad told the son to stop playing his game, it was bedtime. The kid said "A
couple more minutes, I'm almost done with this level!!" The dad made
him turn it off immediately, and then when the kid complained he
smashed the gameboy. My first thought was "Doesnt this parent know
that there are only certain "save spots" in the game, and the child
will lose all his hard work if he stops now!?!"-=-
I remember once I put so much work into writing a play when I was about 11 years old. It took me weeks to write out the lines for the characters, assign roles to about 8 different friends (including myself). I had music cued up for certain parts. I also made cool props, all by myself with free time I had after school and on weekends. It was really exciting. We rehearsed a few times too.
I just remember it being one of the most ecxiting, important things that I had ever done by myself as a child. IIt was a Christmas play and I had plans to perform it at a local nursing home. I loved every minute of the process and I put so much time and energy into the whole thing
Well, I did something "wrong" one day, (I don't remember what now), and my parents punished me by not allowing me to perform the play I wrote/created. I had to call everyone in the play and the nursing home to cancel. It was so unfair and mean and my body still gets hot thinking about it. I cried and cried. How could they not have seen or cared about how much I put into it all? I guess they thought it would be a punishment that would "stick" because it was something that meant so much to me.
I don't know why the above story from Katherine made me remember this time from my childhood, but something about it did. I guess because my parents never valued the importance or significance of things that brought joy and meaning to my life, just like the father in Katherine's story.
~Dayna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
couple more minutes, I'm almost done with this level!!" The dad made
him turn it off immediately, and then when the kid complained he
smashed the gameboy. My first thought was "Doesnt this parent know
that there are only certain "save spots" in the game, and the child
will lose all his hard work if he stops now!?!"-=-
I remember once I put so much work into writing a play when I was about 11 years old. It took me weeks to write out the lines for the characters, assign roles to about 8 different friends (including myself). I had music cued up for certain parts. I also made cool props, all by myself with free time I had after school and on weekends. It was really exciting. We rehearsed a few times too.
I just remember it being one of the most ecxiting, important things that I had ever done by myself as a child. IIt was a Christmas play and I had plans to perform it at a local nursing home. I loved every minute of the process and I put so much time and energy into the whole thing
Well, I did something "wrong" one day, (I don't remember what now), and my parents punished me by not allowing me to perform the play I wrote/created. I had to call everyone in the play and the nursing home to cancel. It was so unfair and mean and my body still gets hot thinking about it. I cried and cried. How could they not have seen or cared about how much I put into it all? I guess they thought it would be a punishment that would "stick" because it was something that meant so much to me.
I don't know why the above story from Katherine made me remember this time from my childhood, but something about it did. I guess because my parents never valued the importance or significance of things that brought joy and meaning to my life, just like the father in Katherine's story.
~Dayna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]