you owe me an apology!
Angela S.
Ifind it so interesting to see my kids grow up without some of the issues that I had. My youngest is just the most confident person sometimes. I still have issues with being a people pleaser and not wanting to upset people, even if it's just the truth that hurts.
Last summer we bought a horse and the owner of the horse gave us three weeks in which to return her if she wasn't a good match for Lilly. Well, on day six I tried to call her becaue Lilly had been bucked off and the horses ground manners had gone down the tube and I just knew she was not the horse she had seemed to be when we tried her. (3 times) We were looking for a VERY quiet horse which the woman had said this horse was.
When we tried the horse it was at the woman's x-husband's house. She said she'd be living there for three more weeks. We had his number, her cell phone number, and her mailing address which was a p.o. box. For weeks I tried to get ahold of her. The X said she moved to NC and there was no way to get a hold of her. Her cell phone kept saying it was out of order. I wrote several letters and got no response. The X had said he would pass on my messages (I called at least 6 times) but I never heard back.
We ended up trading the horse last January to a trainer who had a very difficult time with her before she finally made some headway. She reared and bucked and spun, etc. (she had done that for us too) The ad we responded to was for a VERY SAFE horse. Anyway,...
We recently found 3 more horse ads on-line by the same woman (just by chance) who was living in Maine again. (still?) My dd decided to write to her and call her on her lies to us. My "don't upset people" personality didn't want the conflict but dd was adamant about it. I let her do it. She really called her on everything lie she told us and asked her to explain herself. She was telling the same story she told us in the new ads about why she had to sell the horses that she'd supposedly had a long time. Well, she wrote back and instead of explaining herself or feeling badly for her shitty lies, she berated my dd for "talking to her like that and told her that she owed her an apology." (you can bet if I'd have written that letter she'd not have asked for an apology because I am an adult) What a joke! Me, I felt like I'd been yelled at in school even though everything my dd had said to her was deserved and SPOT ON. My dd let her words roll off her like water off a duck. It made NO impact at all except to cement what an idiot and liar the woman is.
She has none of the issues that I have with regards to *athority*. She calls a spade a spade. I think it's so cool that she can stand up for herself, with a valid arguement, and not feel less than when confronting an adult just because they are an adult.
I ended up corresponding with the woman and she made up some excuses as to what happened to her and why she never responded. Whatever. I needed to feel like things were smoothed over somewhat though because I have a fear that someone like that might go balistic one day and I don't want me or my kids on that person's hit list. (my issue, I know)
--
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Last summer we bought a horse and the owner of the horse gave us three weeks in which to return her if she wasn't a good match for Lilly. Well, on day six I tried to call her becaue Lilly had been bucked off and the horses ground manners had gone down the tube and I just knew she was not the horse she had seemed to be when we tried her. (3 times) We were looking for a VERY quiet horse which the woman had said this horse was.
When we tried the horse it was at the woman's x-husband's house. She said she'd be living there for three more weeks. We had his number, her cell phone number, and her mailing address which was a p.o. box. For weeks I tried to get ahold of her. The X said she moved to NC and there was no way to get a hold of her. Her cell phone kept saying it was out of order. I wrote several letters and got no response. The X had said he would pass on my messages (I called at least 6 times) but I never heard back.
We ended up trading the horse last January to a trainer who had a very difficult time with her before she finally made some headway. She reared and bucked and spun, etc. (she had done that for us too) The ad we responded to was for a VERY SAFE horse. Anyway,...
We recently found 3 more horse ads on-line by the same woman (just by chance) who was living in Maine again. (still?) My dd decided to write to her and call her on her lies to us. My "don't upset people" personality didn't want the conflict but dd was adamant about it. I let her do it. She really called her on everything lie she told us and asked her to explain herself. She was telling the same story she told us in the new ads about why she had to sell the horses that she'd supposedly had a long time. Well, she wrote back and instead of explaining herself or feeling badly for her shitty lies, she berated my dd for "talking to her like that and told her that she owed her an apology." (you can bet if I'd have written that letter she'd not have asked for an apology because I am an adult) What a joke! Me, I felt like I'd been yelled at in school even though everything my dd had said to her was deserved and SPOT ON. My dd let her words roll off her like water off a duck. It made NO impact at all except to cement what an idiot and liar the woman is.
She has none of the issues that I have with regards to *athority*. She calls a spade a spade. I think it's so cool that she can stand up for herself, with a valid arguement, and not feel less than when confronting an adult just because they are an adult.
I ended up corresponding with the woman and she made up some excuses as to what happened to her and why she never responded. Whatever. I needed to feel like things were smoothed over somewhat though because I have a fear that someone like that might go balistic one day and I don't want me or my kids on that person's hit list. (my issue, I know)
--
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
That's a good story, and good for your daughter!!
I don't know whether you've considered taking some action, finding
some way to try to out the woman for repeating a lie.
-=-She was telling the same story she told us in the new ads about
why she had to sell the horses that she'd supposedly had a long time.
Well, she wrote back and instead of explaining herself or feeling
badly for her shitty lies, she berated my dd for "talking to her like
that and told her that she owed her an apology." (you can bet if I'd
have written that letter she'd not have asked for an apology because
I am an adult) What a joke! -=-
The buying and selling of horses has deeper legal roots than probably
anything but marriage and child custody. It's BIGtime, isn't it?
It's not something people should be lying about at all.
Maybe if nothing else, a lawsuit asking a judge to keep her from
selling horses would be helpful. Maybe too expensive to pursue and
too stressful for you, but maybe there's a horse-involved lawyer who
might take it on as his own project, and do it without your direct
involvement.
Seems a shame to let her get off with ONLY a confrontation by a
strong girl and some letters.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know whether you've considered taking some action, finding
some way to try to out the woman for repeating a lie.
-=-She was telling the same story she told us in the new ads about
why she had to sell the horses that she'd supposedly had a long time.
Well, she wrote back and instead of explaining herself or feeling
badly for her shitty lies, she berated my dd for "talking to her like
that and told her that she owed her an apology." (you can bet if I'd
have written that letter she'd not have asked for an apology because
I am an adult) What a joke! -=-
The buying and selling of horses has deeper legal roots than probably
anything but marriage and child custody. It's BIGtime, isn't it?
It's not something people should be lying about at all.
Maybe if nothing else, a lawsuit asking a judge to keep her from
selling horses would be helpful. Maybe too expensive to pursue and
too stressful for you, but maybe there's a horse-involved lawyer who
might take it on as his own project, and do it without your direct
involvement.
Seems a shame to let her get off with ONLY a confrontation by a
strong girl and some letters.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
Re: the question about the history of toys.
In studying ancient civilizations last year, I came upon information about
toy artifacts in ancient India and Egypt. It's escaped me now the
details...I'll look for some links. But the fact that toys were around then
stayed with me because it showed that people/children were enriched with
them back then, and toys aren't something new and/or deviant to living.
There certainly may be an element today of profit that drives production of
toys, but it seems the initial desire to have fun things comes from humans
(and well, dogs, cats and monkeys too).
Jacki
In studying ancient civilizations last year, I came upon information about
toy artifacts in ancient India and Egypt. It's escaped me now the
details...I'll look for some links. But the fact that toys were around then
stayed with me because it showed that people/children were enriched with
them back then, and toys aren't something new and/or deviant to living.
There certainly may be an element today of profit that drives production of
toys, but it seems the initial desire to have fun things comes from humans
(and well, dogs, cats and monkeys too).
Jacki
Gold Standard
>>Maybe if nothing else, a lawsuit asking a judge to keep her fromwith ONLY a confrontation by a
>>selling horses would be helpful. <snip> Seems a shame to let her get off
>>strong girl and some letters.<<Angela, I just wanted to share a story that just happened to me. I was sued
by a drug company for $83,000. I was sued because my husband was employed as
a doctor at a clinic that didn't pay their pharmacy bill. He had nothing to
do with it. I had nothing to do with it. But it didn't stop us from being
named in the suit. We live in a community property state, which is why I was
named as well.
This law suit was bogus from the start. I do not like controversy, similar
to you. But I had no choice about this. If I didn't do anything about it,
they win, take whatever they can from me. I was forced to go beyond my
comfort zone.
We lived a pretty simple and uncomplicated life in a small town in Ohio for
12 years. We moved to a more metropolitan area (Phoenix) 4 years ago, which
is when we realized that some people really DO make money and power their
priority. Will lie and cheat and steal to get it. Seems obvious, but we had
never seen it upclose before irl.
We don't have much to take from, all the more reason to fight to keep it. Dh
only practices medicine that makes sense, not the kind that makes drug
companies billions. This means he doesn't make what many doctors are thought
to make moneywise.
So we took on this drug company with help here and there from an atty when
we could afford it, and from a friend who is a paralegal, and I researched
how to legally respond to court documents and I prepared Statements of
Facts, Motions, Affidavits, etc. I HATED it and at that same time I enjoyed
it. I was doing something for personal justice, and I was learning about a
system that is a large part of our society. In the end, I got the case
dismissed because their attys made so many procedural mistakes. The drug
company lost all their atty fees and had to pay court costs.
I benefited greatly from that process, in so many ways. I learned a whole
lot about the legal system. I stayed strong and determined for what was
right. I stuck to the truth no matter what else was flung my way. And in the
end, we never even fought it out because I knew enough about the system by
then to show what they did wrong (didn't send me their evidence exhibits
before the trial, didn't engage in court-assigned settlement procedure, et
al). I would have loved to come to the end and had Mr. Judge determine the
truth, that I was not liable, but that was okay. All was well.
Some people will just keep going and going in a hurtful pattern until they
are stopped. I suspect that this woman of which you speak is one of them. I
encourage you to do something legal about her Angela. It may give you
discomfort initially, but this may also be an opportunity for you to
release some of that. Maybe it is effecting other areas in your life too?
Horsewoman relies on people not doing anything to her. She knows that most
people will just complain and get mad, but they won't legally go after her.
Court and law can seem like big ominous things, but so many con artists
count on people thinking and feeling this way.
One option is to go to small claims court which has a nominal fee
involved...you used to be able to sue someone for $2500 or less in Ohio in
small claims court. The cost was $25. It may be different where you are, but
may be worth looking into.
Jacki
Angela S.
Jacki,
Thanks for sharing your story. Unfortunately, I doubt I would have a foot
hold in court and honestly it wouldn't be worth the trouble as much as I
would like to stop this woman from doing the same thing to another family.
(However, the horse world is a small place and word does get around) I did
not get the return policy in writing. (big mistake- I learned and haven't
repeated that mistake again) The bill of sale was "as is". The return
policy was a verbal agreement between us, her word against mine probably,
although I did have a witness.
Of course now I don't own the horse anymore either, so I can't give it back
to get my money back. I also had to pay board on the horse for several
months before I could find a buyer who would buy a horse that I told them
bucked and had issues. It's not easy to sell a horse like that. I ended up
trading her for an older pony, which was a pretty big loss monetarily but
money wasn't the only thing I considered. I knew the horse was going to a
home where they could handle her and correct her behavior issues, it got me
out from under board payments, and I felt strongly that the old pony we got
would be a safe mount for my dd and if not that he would be easier to sell
even if I couldn't get as much for him. When you board you have to take
into consideration the monthly cost of board when you hold on to them month
after month. He is the sweetest old boy though and we wouldn't have found
him if it wasn't for the other horse because he wasn't listed for sale
anywhere.
One good thing happened from the correspondence yesterday. My dd, who had
held a lot of anger toward the horse and the previous owner, was able to let
it go and move past it. She actually said she feels love for the horse that
we sold and wasn't sure why. We are going to go visit her soon. I think
she was able to let go of the pain that was associated with the whole thing
and stop blaming it on the horse by confronting the previous owner who had
lied to us.
I had more thoughts to add about this but the girls are getting ready to
ride and I am off to help them, then they are babysitting my nephew for a
few hours for some extra money. If we have time between those two events,
we'll go see the horse that we sold. It'll be nice to see her behaving
herself. :-)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for sharing your story. Unfortunately, I doubt I would have a foot
hold in court and honestly it wouldn't be worth the trouble as much as I
would like to stop this woman from doing the same thing to another family.
(However, the horse world is a small place and word does get around) I did
not get the return policy in writing. (big mistake- I learned and haven't
repeated that mistake again) The bill of sale was "as is". The return
policy was a verbal agreement between us, her word against mine probably,
although I did have a witness.
Of course now I don't own the horse anymore either, so I can't give it back
to get my money back. I also had to pay board on the horse for several
months before I could find a buyer who would buy a horse that I told them
bucked and had issues. It's not easy to sell a horse like that. I ended up
trading her for an older pony, which was a pretty big loss monetarily but
money wasn't the only thing I considered. I knew the horse was going to a
home where they could handle her and correct her behavior issues, it got me
out from under board payments, and I felt strongly that the old pony we got
would be a safe mount for my dd and if not that he would be easier to sell
even if I couldn't get as much for him. When you board you have to take
into consideration the monthly cost of board when you hold on to them month
after month. He is the sweetest old boy though and we wouldn't have found
him if it wasn't for the other horse because he wasn't listed for sale
anywhere.
One good thing happened from the correspondence yesterday. My dd, who had
held a lot of anger toward the horse and the previous owner, was able to let
it go and move past it. She actually said she feels love for the horse that
we sold and wasn't sure why. We are going to go visit her soon. I think
she was able to let go of the pain that was associated with the whole thing
and stop blaming it on the horse by confronting the previous owner who had
lied to us.
I had more thoughts to add about this but the girls are getting ready to
ride and I am off to help them, then they are babysitting my nephew for a
few hours for some extra money. If we have time between those two events,
we'll go see the horse that we sold. It'll be nice to see her behaving
herself. :-)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
>>One good thing happened from the correspondence yesterday. My dd, who hadlet
>>held a lot of anger toward the horse and the previous owner, was able to
>>it go and move past it. She actually said she feels love for the horsethat
>>we sold and wasn't sure why.<<That's awesome! I think it's most important to have or get to, inner peace.
Your dd processing as she did certainly seemed to get her there...that's so
cool.
Maybe I just have my own issues around people doing other people wrong to
deal with <G>
Thanks,
Jacki
Angela S.
<Maybe I just have my own issues around people doing other people wrong to
deal with <G>>
LOL! I hear you. It must have been tough to go through all that. I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
deal with <G>>
LOL! I hear you. It must have been tough to go through all that. I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
<That's awesome! I think it's most important to have or get to, inner peace.
Your dd processing as she did certainly seemed to get her there...that's so
cool.>
It IS very cool. I am so glad she has found some peace concerning that
whole thing. I am so glad I let her write the letter and actually send it
off. We didn't have time enough today to go see the horse but maybe this
week-end. The kids got side tracked with a horse racing game and they have
a babysitting gig this afternoon.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your dd processing as she did certainly seemed to get her there...that's so
cool.>
It IS very cool. I am so glad she has found some peace concerning that
whole thing. I am so glad I let her write the letter and actually send it
off. We didn't have time enough today to go see the horse but maybe this
week-end. The kids got side tracked with a horse racing game and they have
a babysitting gig this afternoon.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
<The buying and selling of horses has deeper legal roots than probably
anything but marriage and child custody. It's BIGtime, isn't it?
It's not something people should be lying about at all.>
I have found around here that trying to find an honest horse seller is like
trying to find a needle in a hay stack. NO ONE seems to tell the truth.
I've bought 3 horses now and took one on a lease and not one of the sellers
was completely honest. And I was buying horses for children! You would
think that if you had any kind of couth at all that you would not lie to
someone buying a horse for an 8 or 10 year old. How does one live with
oneself if that kid gets hurt?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anything but marriage and child custody. It's BIGtime, isn't it?
It's not something people should be lying about at all.>
I have found around here that trying to find an honest horse seller is like
trying to find a needle in a hay stack. NO ONE seems to tell the truth.
I've bought 3 horses now and took one on a lease and not one of the sellers
was completely honest. And I was buying horses for children! You would
think that if you had any kind of couth at all that you would not lie to
someone buying a horse for an 8 or 10 year old. How does one live with
oneself if that kid gets hurt?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-LOL! I hear you. It must have been tough to go through all that. I
think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
I want to talk about this without making Angela feel guilty about a
woman selling horses with a rolled-over sob story.
Not about either of the current stories being told, but about this:
-=-I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
Would that apply to rapists and child molesters?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
I want to talk about this without making Angela feel guilty about a
woman selling horses with a rolled-over sob story.
Not about either of the current stories being told, but about this:
-=-I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
Would that apply to rapists and child molesters?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
This was also sent to me privately---I mean--- as well as the AL list.
I was thinking---what in the world did I DO??? <g>
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I know you can't trust horse
traders! I once knew two Saddlebred/Walker horse trader-partners: Joe
Cheatham and Pete Steele. <BWG> Now, *they* were a pair! Well-named
duo! <g>
My policy was to take the horse and keep him for a spell---1-2 weeks.
That way you can get a good feel. If the horse were drugged for
temperament or lameness, it would usually show up by then. Only
unreputable folks wouldn't let you do that. Those with your child's and
the horse's best interests at heart have no problem with a trial. Too,
that way you can see how he'll act with your other horses, in a foreign
barn/field/ring, and on the ground and how destructive or sour or
whatever he is/can be.
Lessons learned though. Sorry Lilly had to go through it.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
-----Original Message-----
From: game-enthusiast@...
To: [email protected]
Cc: kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: you owe me an apology!
Ifind it so interesting to see my kids grow up without some
of the issues that I had. My youngest is just the most confident person
sometimes. I still have issues with being a people pleaser and not
wanting to upset people, even if it's just the truth that hurts.
Last summer we bought a horse and the owner of the horse gave us
three weeks in which to return her if she wasn't a good match for
Lilly. Well, on day six I tried to call her becaue Lilly had been
bucked off and the horses ground manners had gone down the tube and I
just knew she was not the horse she had seemed to be when we tried her.
(3 times) We were looking for a VERY quiet horse which the woman had
said this horse was.
When we tried the horse it was at the woman's x-husband's house. She
said she'd be living there for three more weeks. We had his number, her
cell phone number, and her mailing address which was a p.o. box. For
weeks I tried to get ahold of her. The X said she moved to NC and there
was no way to get a hold of her. Her cell phone kept saying it was out
of order. I wrote several letters and got no response. The X had said
he would pass on my messages (I called at least 6 times) but I never
heard back.
We ended up trading the horse last January to a trainer who had a
very difficult time with her before she finally made some headway. She
reared and bucked and spun, etc. (she had done that for us too) The ad
we responded to was for a VERY SAFE horse. Anyway,...
We recently found 3 more horse ads on-line by the same woman (just by
chance) who was living in Maine again. (still?) My dd decided to write
to her and call her on her lies to us. My "don't upset people"
personality didn't want the conflict but dd was adamant about it. I let
her do it. She really called her on everything lie she told us and
asked her to explain herself. She was telling the same story she told
us in the new ads about why she had to sell the horses that she'd
supposedly had a long time. Well, she wrote back and instead of
explaining herself or feeling badly for her shitty lies, she berated my
dd for "talking to her like that and told her that she owed her an
apology." (you can bet if I'd have written that letter she'd not have
asked for an apology because I am an adult) What a joke! Me, I felt
like I'd been yelled at in school even though everything my dd had said
to her was deserved and SPOT ON. My dd let her words roll off her like
water off a duck. It made NO impact at all except to cement what an
idiot and liar the woman is.
She has none of the issues that I have with regards to *athority*.
She calls a spade a spade. I think it's so cool that she can stand up
for herself, with a valid arguement, and not feel less than when
confronting an adult just because they are an adult.
I ended up corresponding with the woman and she made up some excuses
as to what happened to her and why she never responded. Whatever. I
needed to feel like things were smoothed over somewhat though because I
have a fear that someone like that might go balistic one day and I
don't want me or my kids on that person's hit list. (my issue, I know)
--
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
I was thinking---what in the world did I DO??? <g>
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I know you can't trust horse
traders! I once knew two Saddlebred/Walker horse trader-partners: Joe
Cheatham and Pete Steele. <BWG> Now, *they* were a pair! Well-named
duo! <g>
My policy was to take the horse and keep him for a spell---1-2 weeks.
That way you can get a good feel. If the horse were drugged for
temperament or lameness, it would usually show up by then. Only
unreputable folks wouldn't let you do that. Those with your child's and
the horse's best interests at heart have no problem with a trial. Too,
that way you can see how he'll act with your other horses, in a foreign
barn/field/ring, and on the ground and how destructive or sour or
whatever he is/can be.
Lessons learned though. Sorry Lilly had to go through it.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
-----Original Message-----
From: game-enthusiast@...
To: [email protected]
Cc: kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: you owe me an apology!
Ifind it so interesting to see my kids grow up without some
of the issues that I had. My youngest is just the most confident person
sometimes. I still have issues with being a people pleaser and not
wanting to upset people, even if it's just the truth that hurts.
Last summer we bought a horse and the owner of the horse gave us
three weeks in which to return her if she wasn't a good match for
Lilly. Well, on day six I tried to call her becaue Lilly had been
bucked off and the horses ground manners had gone down the tube and I
just knew she was not the horse she had seemed to be when we tried her.
(3 times) We were looking for a VERY quiet horse which the woman had
said this horse was.
When we tried the horse it was at the woman's x-husband's house. She
said she'd be living there for three more weeks. We had his number, her
cell phone number, and her mailing address which was a p.o. box. For
weeks I tried to get ahold of her. The X said she moved to NC and there
was no way to get a hold of her. Her cell phone kept saying it was out
of order. I wrote several letters and got no response. The X had said
he would pass on my messages (I called at least 6 times) but I never
heard back.
We ended up trading the horse last January to a trainer who had a
very difficult time with her before she finally made some headway. She
reared and bucked and spun, etc. (she had done that for us too) The ad
we responded to was for a VERY SAFE horse. Anyway,...
We recently found 3 more horse ads on-line by the same woman (just by
chance) who was living in Maine again. (still?) My dd decided to write
to her and call her on her lies to us. My "don't upset people"
personality didn't want the conflict but dd was adamant about it. I let
her do it. She really called her on everything lie she told us and
asked her to explain herself. She was telling the same story she told
us in the new ads about why she had to sell the horses that she'd
supposedly had a long time. Well, she wrote back and instead of
explaining herself or feeling badly for her shitty lies, she berated my
dd for "talking to her like that and told her that she owed her an
apology." (you can bet if I'd have written that letter she'd not have
asked for an apology because I am an adult) What a joke! Me, I felt
like I'd been yelled at in school even though everything my dd had said
to her was deserved and SPOT ON. My dd let her words roll off her like
water off a duck. It made NO impact at all except to cement what an
idiot and liar the woman is.
She has none of the issues that I have with regards to *athority*.
She calls a spade a spade. I think it's so cool that she can stand up
for herself, with a valid arguement, and not feel less than when
confronting an adult just because they are an adult.
I ended up corresponding with the woman and she made up some excuses
as to what happened to her and why she never responded. Whatever. I
needed to feel like things were smoothed over somewhat though because I
have a fear that someone like that might go balistic one day and I
don't want me or my kids on that person's hit list. (my issue, I know)
--
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Angela S.
<-=-I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
Would that apply to rapists and child molesters?>
Who the hell knows, really. It's something that I'd like to believe but I
am not really sure I do believe it when I really think about it. They do,
however, have to live with themselves and that truly must be hard deep down
even if they don't let themselves think about it much on the surface. I
don't believe in heaven and hell like a lot of people do so I wasn't
thinking about it in that way so much. It does seem like what comes around
goes around though, to some extent. Lots of people create a hell right here
on earth for themselves. Lots of people chose to live as victims and be
miserable too. I don't know. I know I'm tired and that 2 year olds wear me
out more not than they did when my girls were two.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
Would that apply to rapists and child molesters?>
Who the hell knows, really. It's something that I'd like to believe but I
am not really sure I do believe it when I really think about it. They do,
however, have to live with themselves and that truly must be hard deep down
even if they don't let themselves think about it much on the surface. I
don't believe in heaven and hell like a lot of people do so I wasn't
thinking about it in that way so much. It does seem like what comes around
goes around though, to some extent. Lots of people create a hell right here
on earth for themselves. Lots of people chose to live as victims and be
miserable too. I don't know. I know I'm tired and that 2 year olds wear me
out more not than they did when my girls were two.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. It does seem like what comes around
goes around though, to some extent. -=-
My point was missed.
I don't think people who let those kinds of crimes go without trying
to prosecute are simply leaving those people to their eventual fate
and guilty conscience. I think they're setting them loose on other
children, other women.
We don't need to discuss it at length; it's depressing.
As listowner, though, I didn't want a statement to stand that sounded
like it was fine to let bad behavior, crime or evil go (depending
what range one is considering; they're not all the same) simply
thinking eventually the guy will get caught and punished.
"Eventually" might mean after he kills 20 women instead of just
roughing up one.
Sandra
-------------
<-=-I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
Would that apply to rapists and child molesters?>
---------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
goes around though, to some extent. -=-
My point was missed.
I don't think people who let those kinds of crimes go without trying
to prosecute are simply leaving those people to their eventual fate
and guilty conscience. I think they're setting them loose on other
children, other women.
We don't need to discuss it at length; it's depressing.
As listowner, though, I didn't want a statement to stand that sounded
like it was fine to let bad behavior, crime or evil go (depending
what range one is considering; they're not all the same) simply
thinking eventually the guy will get caught and punished.
"Eventually" might mean after he kills 20 women instead of just
roughing up one.
Sandra
-------------
<-=-I think
that eventually people WILL get their come-uppance in one way or
another.
And they still have to live with themselves, which must be tough.-=-
Would that apply to rapists and child molesters?>
---------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
<I don't think people who let those kinds of crimes go without trying
to prosecute are simply leaving those people to their eventual fate
and guilty conscience. I think they're setting them loose on other
children, other women.>
Oh, I agree. That would be a terrible thing to do in the case of rape or
any type of violence.
However, when it comes to the buying and selling of horses (not feeling
badly here, just trying to explain) there are a whole slew of things that
come into play that aren't as cut and dried as something like rape.
Buyer beware. I don't think anyone goes into a horse transaction without
knowing this. Most horse sellers don't point out the horses faults as much
as they shine a light on their good qualities.
And the thing is (and I knew this) a horse may not be the same for you as he
was for his last owner/rider. He may not like you. He may not like the way
you ride. He may not have had a lot asked of him before and so he never got
in huff enough to complain. (be rude or buck) Then you buy him and ask him
to work off your leg and on the bit and suddenly he baulks and things can
change quickly.
Sometimes horse sellers are just plain ignorant. It's also possible that
she had owned this horse (for 8 years, she said) and it WAS quiet for her
and so she had no reason to think we would return her. She used the horse
as a trail horse, showed her some, and she was an adult riding the horse
with long legs. My dd is small, even for an 8 year old. (she was 8 then,
almost 9). The horse hadn't had children on her very much and not a child
who knew what they were doing and asked a lot of her. (which is why I
wanted a trial period)
Still, the woman did disappear after telling us we had three weeks in which
to return her. I made a couple mistakes there. I did not get it in
writing. I also paid in full for the horse instead of putting a down
payment down or withholding payment until I found out if she worked out.
She did tell me in an email the other day that she did get my letters
eventually (months later because she's an over the road trucker now and
didn't get her mail for months) but she assumed after reading the second one
that things had worked out. In the first letter I told her I wanted to
return the horse (explained why). In the second I said, "haven't heard from
you..things are looking a bit better but I NEED to talk with you. PLEASE
CALL ME." (we still weren't sure if she'd work out or not because she was
doing better for a time but if given the chance I'd have returned her
because I wasn't looking for a horse we had to work with) She took the "a
bit better and decided not to call." After that I continued to call the X
several times and even let him know we were selling the horse. He told me
he'd pass the word on. (She had put in the contract that she wanted first
option to buy her back if we sold her, isn't that sweet? Was it just bait?
Or did she really care?) But in talking to the woman who sold us the horse,
she said she was fighting with her X at the time and he never gave her the
messages. Messy! Not really very cut and dried at all.
The horse was quiet and good the three times we tried her at the X's house.
(different times of the day) After the first buck (second time dd rode her
after we got her home) she had a quiet spell but then after spooking and
taking off on her once, she quickly came to realize she got out of work when
she did that. Her behavior escalated from cantering off (not an honest
spook after the first one though) to cantering off, bucking, and then doing
a buck/rear/spinny thing. She was a smart horse and figured out how to get
Lilly off her. Unfortunately, we didn't know anyone at the time with the
ability to ride her and work her through it. A couple of more advanced
students tried to but quickly decided they couldn't handle her. I was
riding her at the time (I'm still a beginner) at walk/trot and not asking a
lot of her and she was fine for me.
If the woman REALLY cared about the horse, she wouldn't have disappeared
without giving us a head's up as to how we could get a hold of her. (She
has two kids who live with the X, there must be a way through the trucking
co. plus she said she was moving.a new phone number would have been good)
She was a rat, no doubt about it. She didn't want the horse back, imo, just
the money.
Did she move back to Maine and buy horses this summer and then use her work
as an excuse to *have* to sell them? It looks like it. Do I think she just
bought them to turn around and sell them again and make some money? Yes. A
lot of people buy horses cheap and work with them and resell them. Is it
just a little white lie as to why she says she's selling the horses?
It's a complicated thing is all I am trying to say. I don't think I would
have a leg to stand on in a court of law and I don't think even taking her
to court in this part of the country would affect her anymore than spreading
the word about what happened through the horse world. It certainly isn't a
headliner.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to prosecute are simply leaving those people to their eventual fate
and guilty conscience. I think they're setting them loose on other
children, other women.>
Oh, I agree. That would be a terrible thing to do in the case of rape or
any type of violence.
However, when it comes to the buying and selling of horses (not feeling
badly here, just trying to explain) there are a whole slew of things that
come into play that aren't as cut and dried as something like rape.
Buyer beware. I don't think anyone goes into a horse transaction without
knowing this. Most horse sellers don't point out the horses faults as much
as they shine a light on their good qualities.
And the thing is (and I knew this) a horse may not be the same for you as he
was for his last owner/rider. He may not like you. He may not like the way
you ride. He may not have had a lot asked of him before and so he never got
in huff enough to complain. (be rude or buck) Then you buy him and ask him
to work off your leg and on the bit and suddenly he baulks and things can
change quickly.
Sometimes horse sellers are just plain ignorant. It's also possible that
she had owned this horse (for 8 years, she said) and it WAS quiet for her
and so she had no reason to think we would return her. She used the horse
as a trail horse, showed her some, and she was an adult riding the horse
with long legs. My dd is small, even for an 8 year old. (she was 8 then,
almost 9). The horse hadn't had children on her very much and not a child
who knew what they were doing and asked a lot of her. (which is why I
wanted a trial period)
Still, the woman did disappear after telling us we had three weeks in which
to return her. I made a couple mistakes there. I did not get it in
writing. I also paid in full for the horse instead of putting a down
payment down or withholding payment until I found out if she worked out.
She did tell me in an email the other day that she did get my letters
eventually (months later because she's an over the road trucker now and
didn't get her mail for months) but she assumed after reading the second one
that things had worked out. In the first letter I told her I wanted to
return the horse (explained why). In the second I said, "haven't heard from
you..things are looking a bit better but I NEED to talk with you. PLEASE
CALL ME." (we still weren't sure if she'd work out or not because she was
doing better for a time but if given the chance I'd have returned her
because I wasn't looking for a horse we had to work with) She took the "a
bit better and decided not to call." After that I continued to call the X
several times and even let him know we were selling the horse. He told me
he'd pass the word on. (She had put in the contract that she wanted first
option to buy her back if we sold her, isn't that sweet? Was it just bait?
Or did she really care?) But in talking to the woman who sold us the horse,
she said she was fighting with her X at the time and he never gave her the
messages. Messy! Not really very cut and dried at all.
The horse was quiet and good the three times we tried her at the X's house.
(different times of the day) After the first buck (second time dd rode her
after we got her home) she had a quiet spell but then after spooking and
taking off on her once, she quickly came to realize she got out of work when
she did that. Her behavior escalated from cantering off (not an honest
spook after the first one though) to cantering off, bucking, and then doing
a buck/rear/spinny thing. She was a smart horse and figured out how to get
Lilly off her. Unfortunately, we didn't know anyone at the time with the
ability to ride her and work her through it. A couple of more advanced
students tried to but quickly decided they couldn't handle her. I was
riding her at the time (I'm still a beginner) at walk/trot and not asking a
lot of her and she was fine for me.
If the woman REALLY cared about the horse, she wouldn't have disappeared
without giving us a head's up as to how we could get a hold of her. (She
has two kids who live with the X, there must be a way through the trucking
co. plus she said she was moving.a new phone number would have been good)
She was a rat, no doubt about it. She didn't want the horse back, imo, just
the money.
Did she move back to Maine and buy horses this summer and then use her work
as an excuse to *have* to sell them? It looks like it. Do I think she just
bought them to turn around and sell them again and make some money? Yes. A
lot of people buy horses cheap and work with them and resell them. Is it
just a little white lie as to why she says she's selling the horses?
It's a complicated thing is all I am trying to say. I don't think I would
have a leg to stand on in a court of law and I don't think even taking her
to court in this part of the country would affect her anymore than spreading
the word about what happened through the horse world. It certainly isn't a
headliner.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
It's a complicated thing is all I am trying to say. I don't think I
would
have a leg to stand on in a court of law-=-
My objection wasn't about this situation, it was about your summary
of the situation which seemed generalized to all micreants. Letting
this one slide is understandable. Letting violent crimes slide would
be a whole 'nother thing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's a complicated thing is all I am trying to say. I don't think I
would
have a leg to stand on in a court of law-=-
My objection wasn't about this situation, it was about your summary
of the situation which seemed generalized to all micreants. Letting
this one slide is understandable. Letting violent crimes slide would
be a whole 'nother thing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
<My objection wasn't about this situation, it was about your summary
of the situation which seemed generalized to all micreants. Letting
this one slide is understandable. Letting violent crimes slide would
be a whole 'nother thing.>
Miscreants. (you forgot an S there, had to look that one up) Guess I was
just thinking about that particular situation.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of the situation which seemed generalized to all micreants. Letting
this one slide is understandable. Letting violent crimes slide would
be a whole 'nother thing.>
Miscreants. (you forgot an S there, had to look that one up) Guess I was
just thinking about that particular situation.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Miscreants. (you forgot an S there, had to look that one up)=-=
I'm so sorry! My fingers are getting old and lazy. Very sorry.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm so sorry! My fingers are getting old and lazy. Very sorry.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]