"I just want to know you are real."
Sandra Dodd
-=-Do your kids ever do anything that irritates you, troubles you, makes
you mad? Do you ever argue? Throw me a bone, cause its discouraging
to try to emulate this image I'm getting. Do you understand where I am
coming from? This is a genuine question. I just want to know you are
real.-=-
Is this a singular "you" meaning me/Sandra? I hope it's a general
plural "you."
-=-Throw me a bone, cause its discouraging
to try to emulate this image I'm getting. Do you understand where I am
coming from? This is a genuine question.-=-
I do understand, but it's also a kind of snarky, accusing question.
I doubt you meant it to be antagonistic, but "Throw me a bone" isn't
a nice way to ask. If you don't understand or you're getting angry,
I am absolutely confident that it's not that I and others have failed
to spend enough of our time sharing the details of our homelives.
We have piled up a gigantic BONEYARD of clues and confessions and
stories, from MANY, many unschoolers who have written over the years.
http://http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Something brand new yesterday might help more than anything. It's
the homeschooling blog carnival's August edition with links to nearly
20 pieces of writing all related in theme, and this time it's about
the extension of the principles of unschooling into other parts of life.
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/2006/08/unschooling-
voices-2_01.html
-=-I just want to know you are real.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything talks about me swatting Marty
when he was just little, when I got too frustrated to do any better.
Will knowing I spanked my kid make you feel better, and like I am
real? It's not like you dragged it out of me. I wrote it myself
years ago, and made it public in the hope that it would help others.
If finding where you can relax and settle and be just better than the
worst things some of us have ever done is going to comfort you,
you're doing QUITE a school thing, I think, which is grading on the
curve. Justifying slack. I don't want to justify slack in my life or
to help others do so. That would not make me more "real."
Maybe someone here remembers the last time someone told us (here or
on UnschoolingDiscussion) that she would feel better if people would
tell her of the times they'd failed. Maybe you could be directed to
that thread if you want. A list where people share negative stories
won't be as helpful as one where they share successes.
You can find LOTS of places where moms badmouth their kids and
justify their own failures and the moms all sooth and comfort each
other while belitting their kids. They'll take turns saying "it's So
HARD being a mom, and kids are so silly/immature/crazy/mean/
sneaky." Maybe that's not what you have in mind. I hope not, but
such places exist in abundance. They don't help people unschool,
except maybe in the way that they see that mindful parenting really
DOES make a profound difference in every part of life.
I hope no one here is expecting this list to be the sole source of
unschooling information. It was never intended to be that. The
first assumption of this list, which I think is clear from the
description, is that I'm assuming group members will have read some
John Holt.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
The whole group description is there, but in addition to the John
Holt preface (there's lots of Holt to read here:
http://sandradodd.com/johnholt ) it says "It's an idea group and is
intended to lean more toward pure unschooling than neutral, general
homeschooling discussion�there are hundreds of general homeschooling
discussions for newcomers."
Here are dozens of other sources linked for anyone who thinks this
list alone isn't providing enough information. This page also has
existed for a while and hasn't been hidden:
http://sandradodd.com/help
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you mad? Do you ever argue? Throw me a bone, cause its discouraging
to try to emulate this image I'm getting. Do you understand where I am
coming from? This is a genuine question. I just want to know you are
real.-=-
Is this a singular "you" meaning me/Sandra? I hope it's a general
plural "you."
-=-Throw me a bone, cause its discouraging
to try to emulate this image I'm getting. Do you understand where I am
coming from? This is a genuine question.-=-
I do understand, but it's also a kind of snarky, accusing question.
I doubt you meant it to be antagonistic, but "Throw me a bone" isn't
a nice way to ask. If you don't understand or you're getting angry,
I am absolutely confident that it's not that I and others have failed
to spend enough of our time sharing the details of our homelives.
We have piled up a gigantic BONEYARD of clues and confessions and
stories, from MANY, many unschoolers who have written over the years.
http://http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Something brand new yesterday might help more than anything. It's
the homeschooling blog carnival's August edition with links to nearly
20 pieces of writing all related in theme, and this time it's about
the extension of the principles of unschooling into other parts of life.
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/2006/08/unschooling-
voices-2_01.html
-=-I just want to know you are real.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything talks about me swatting Marty
when he was just little, when I got too frustrated to do any better.
Will knowing I spanked my kid make you feel better, and like I am
real? It's not like you dragged it out of me. I wrote it myself
years ago, and made it public in the hope that it would help others.
If finding where you can relax and settle and be just better than the
worst things some of us have ever done is going to comfort you,
you're doing QUITE a school thing, I think, which is grading on the
curve. Justifying slack. I don't want to justify slack in my life or
to help others do so. That would not make me more "real."
Maybe someone here remembers the last time someone told us (here or
on UnschoolingDiscussion) that she would feel better if people would
tell her of the times they'd failed. Maybe you could be directed to
that thread if you want. A list where people share negative stories
won't be as helpful as one where they share successes.
You can find LOTS of places where moms badmouth their kids and
justify their own failures and the moms all sooth and comfort each
other while belitting their kids. They'll take turns saying "it's So
HARD being a mom, and kids are so silly/immature/crazy/mean/
sneaky." Maybe that's not what you have in mind. I hope not, but
such places exist in abundance. They don't help people unschool,
except maybe in the way that they see that mindful parenting really
DOES make a profound difference in every part of life.
I hope no one here is expecting this list to be the sole source of
unschooling information. It was never intended to be that. The
first assumption of this list, which I think is clear from the
description, is that I'm assuming group members will have read some
John Holt.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
The whole group description is there, but in addition to the John
Holt preface (there's lots of Holt to read here:
http://sandradodd.com/johnholt ) it says "It's an idea group and is
intended to lean more toward pure unschooling than neutral, general
homeschooling discussion�there are hundreds of general homeschooling
discussions for newcomers."
Here are dozens of other sources linked for anyone who thinks this
list alone isn't providing enough information. This page also has
existed for a while and hasn't been hidden:
http://sandradodd.com/help
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
-=-Do your kids ever do anything that irritates you, troubles you, makes
you mad? Do you ever argue? Throw me a bone, cause its discouraging
to try to emulate this image I'm getting. Do you understand where I am
coming from? This is a genuine question. I just want to know you are
real.-=-
The one thing my kids do sometimes that irritates me is to look at the
negative side of things. On occasion they are tired or stuck in a rut and
they seem to see the worst in people and in themselves too. It drives me
crazy. I am a person who focuses on the glass being half full rather than
half empty. I have a hard time being around people who see all the negative
things in life and not the hundred little positive things that are around us
every day all the time. When they get like that though, I know that
something isn't right and we talk about it and try to get to the bottom of
the issue that is of concern to them. (sometimes they just need a little
more sleep) We also talk about how their attitude can affect the people
around them. Often just drawing their attention to it makes them realize
they are doing it and they apologize and find something positive to think
about.
We rarely argue here. We sometime misunderstand each other and get a little
grumpy but we always talk about it immediately and figure out where the
misunderstanding came from and sort it out.
I think one thing that is important to mention is that in our family we all
seem to have a high intrapersonal intelligence. (We all seem to know
ourselves well and what we want most of the time. We don't have to try to
figure each other out, we just ask.) Interpersonally is more challenging for
all of us outside our own family. (I just don't get what makes some people
tick sometimes.)
Sometimes I feel socially awkward in a group setting. But I have to say
recently I've dealt with some kids who seem to have no clue about what other
people might be feeling at all and it shows so much in how they talk to
other people, inadvertently putting them down without thinking about it
much. (public schooled kids too...there goes that socialization issue
arguement)
Not sure where this is going really. I just thought I'd answer your post as
if you were talking to me. We are a real family. We have our frustrations
and our misunderstandings. The girls have free access to TV, yet don't
watch all day long most of the time. We spend time with our animals, we
play games (board and computer), email, write to penpals, they visit friends
and have them over, enjoy pony club, swimming in our small pool, going to
water parks, hanging out. The girls are happy. They play well together.
We problem solve when misunderstandings happen but life is generally pretty
smooth and enjoyable. But like I said, I focus on the good things. Life is
good!
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
you mad? Do you ever argue? Throw me a bone, cause its discouraging
to try to emulate this image I'm getting. Do you understand where I am
coming from? This is a genuine question. I just want to know you are
real.-=-
The one thing my kids do sometimes that irritates me is to look at the
negative side of things. On occasion they are tired or stuck in a rut and
they seem to see the worst in people and in themselves too. It drives me
crazy. I am a person who focuses on the glass being half full rather than
half empty. I have a hard time being around people who see all the negative
things in life and not the hundred little positive things that are around us
every day all the time. When they get like that though, I know that
something isn't right and we talk about it and try to get to the bottom of
the issue that is of concern to them. (sometimes they just need a little
more sleep) We also talk about how their attitude can affect the people
around them. Often just drawing their attention to it makes them realize
they are doing it and they apologize and find something positive to think
about.
We rarely argue here. We sometime misunderstand each other and get a little
grumpy but we always talk about it immediately and figure out where the
misunderstanding came from and sort it out.
I think one thing that is important to mention is that in our family we all
seem to have a high intrapersonal intelligence. (We all seem to know
ourselves well and what we want most of the time. We don't have to try to
figure each other out, we just ask.) Interpersonally is more challenging for
all of us outside our own family. (I just don't get what makes some people
tick sometimes.)
Sometimes I feel socially awkward in a group setting. But I have to say
recently I've dealt with some kids who seem to have no clue about what other
people might be feeling at all and it shows so much in how they talk to
other people, inadvertently putting them down without thinking about it
much. (public schooled kids too...there goes that socialization issue
arguement)
Not sure where this is going really. I just thought I'd answer your post as
if you were talking to me. We are a real family. We have our frustrations
and our misunderstandings. The girls have free access to TV, yet don't
watch all day long most of the time. We spend time with our animals, we
play games (board and computer), email, write to penpals, they visit friends
and have them over, enjoy pony club, swimming in our small pool, going to
water parks, hanging out. The girls are happy. They play well together.
We problem solve when misunderstandings happen but life is generally pretty
smooth and enjoyable. But like I said, I focus on the good things. Life is
good!
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/2/2006 12:02:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
other while belitting their kids. They'll take turns saying "it's So
HARD being a mom, and kids are so silly/immature/crazy/mean/
sneaky." Maybe that's not what you have in mind. I hope not, but
such places exist in abundance. They don't help people unschool,
except maybe in the way that they see that mindful parenting really
DOES make a profound difference in every part of life.<<<
Sheesh, I get so sick of all those cliche's...all teens will rebel, "you're
spoiling your kids", kids need lots of structure...
If finding out whether we are real people out here includes everyone, let me
share this.
When I first began homeschooling I fell into the jumper wearing, spanking,
school at home, M. Pride, Homeschool Legal defense patriotism
thing...LOL...Talk about not being real. The expectations and the box most homeschoolers were
put in, were expected to be, was a hundred time worse than any unschooling
"utopia" someone might be reaching or striving for. The pressure for our
kids to perform better than school kids was tremendous.
Unschooling has opened us up to life...to family, time spent together, time
spent pursuing what we love, enjoy, are passionate about. When I made the
comment that "I think each kid has a TV in their rooms" I realized later I would
have hidden that fact in the past from other more academic and especially
religous home schoolers. Now I don't give a rats a**. We have 3 or 4 game
systems too, and I don't even know what they are or what games we have!
Being real can just mean saying to heck with all the expectations out there,
and concentrating on your family, simply living, growing and learning. More
and more, I look ahead to the end of my life, and ask myself, "What will
matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French and Algebra, or that they
can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top ten most
in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their lives and
souls?
What would be a better gift to our kids,...the aching urge to break free
from the nest because theyr'e so confined and disciplined at home, or lots of
freedom NOW so that that home is not something they want to push away. I don't
know about all of you, but I want my kids to take their time leaving..my
rejection of another hateful "cliche" that kids should be pushed out on their
18th birthday...phooey.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
>>>You can find LOTS of places where moms badmouth their kids andjustify their own failures and the moms all sooth and comfort each
other while belitting their kids. They'll take turns saying "it's So
HARD being a mom, and kids are so silly/immature/crazy/mean/
sneaky." Maybe that's not what you have in mind. I hope not, but
such places exist in abundance. They don't help people unschool,
except maybe in the way that they see that mindful parenting really
DOES make a profound difference in every part of life.<<<
Sheesh, I get so sick of all those cliche's...all teens will rebel, "you're
spoiling your kids", kids need lots of structure...
If finding out whether we are real people out here includes everyone, let me
share this.
When I first began homeschooling I fell into the jumper wearing, spanking,
school at home, M. Pride, Homeschool Legal defense patriotism
thing...LOL...Talk about not being real. The expectations and the box most homeschoolers were
put in, were expected to be, was a hundred time worse than any unschooling
"utopia" someone might be reaching or striving for. The pressure for our
kids to perform better than school kids was tremendous.
Unschooling has opened us up to life...to family, time spent together, time
spent pursuing what we love, enjoy, are passionate about. When I made the
comment that "I think each kid has a TV in their rooms" I realized later I would
have hidden that fact in the past from other more academic and especially
religous home schoolers. Now I don't give a rats a**. We have 3 or 4 game
systems too, and I don't even know what they are or what games we have!
Being real can just mean saying to heck with all the expectations out there,
and concentrating on your family, simply living, growing and learning. More
and more, I look ahead to the end of my life, and ask myself, "What will
matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French and Algebra, or that they
can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top ten most
in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their lives and
souls?
What would be a better gift to our kids,...the aching urge to break free
from the nest because theyr'e so confined and disciplined at home, or lots of
freedom NOW so that that home is not something they want to push away. I don't
know about all of you, but I want my kids to take their time leaving..my
rejection of another hateful "cliche" that kids should be pushed out on their
18th birthday...phooey.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: CelticFrau@...
"What will matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French and
Algebra, or that they
can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top
ten most
in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their
lives and
souls?
-=-=-=-
But with unschooling, it's NOT one OR the other. They can have it ALL!
if they want it!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: CelticFrau@...
"What will matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French and
Algebra, or that they
can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top
ten most
in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their
lives and
souls?
-=-=-=-
But with unschooling, it's NOT one OR the other. They can have it ALL!
if they want it!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"It's a small world...but a BIG life!" ~Aaron McGlohn. aged 6
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Aug 2, 2006, at 12:10 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
Pushing the algebra and French and putting pressure on them to choose
a top-ten career - that can interfere with their ability to for good
relationships, be considerate and caring, live a peaceful and happy
life.
But focusing on having that peace and happiness now, in their right-
now-real lives, won't interfere at all with them choosing to learn
algebra or french or become a doctor or engineer or architect or
whatever they might find is their calling.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "What will matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French andTrue. And --
> Algebra, or that they
> can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top
> ten most
> in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their
> lives and
> souls?
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> But with unschooling, it's NOT one OR the other. They can have it ALL!
> if they want it!
Pushing the algebra and French and putting pressure on them to choose
a top-ten career - that can interfere with their ability to for good
relationships, be considerate and caring, live a peaceful and happy
life.
But focusing on having that peace and happiness now, in their right-
now-real lives, won't interfere at all with them choosing to learn
algebra or french or become a doctor or engineer or architect or
whatever they might find is their calling.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Sheesh, I get so sick of all those cliche's...all teens will
rebel, "you're
spoiling your kids", kids need lots of structure...
-=-
I'm going to put this in my rock collection, here:
http://sandradoddd.com/phrases
Some of those are as hard as rocks, and as old as rocks.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rebel, "you're
spoiling your kids", kids need lots of structure...
-=-
I'm going to put this in my rock collection, here:
http://sandradoddd.com/phrases
Some of those are as hard as rocks, and as old as rocks.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I look ahead to the end of my life, and ask myself, "What will
matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French and Algebra, or
that they
can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top
ten most
in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their
lives and
souls? -=-
They might have all that, but would have CHOSEN all that.
I finished a college degree at the age of 20. It was a GOOD one, in
that I liked it, I use things I learned still, but it wasn't "a good
one" in that it was a technical sciences degree with which people can
get puffed up big-salary jobs for doing sometimes less work than
other people do. I had English with a minor in psychology (and a
minor minor I finished the next year in anthropology) and an I-don't-
like-to-talk-about-it minor (certification requirements, not called a
minor, because it was embarrassing, in education. RICH AND FUN for
me, good for being an English teacher and not much more.
I married a guy who didn't have a degree, who'd been going to school
a little, some, off and on, since his parents basically told him it
was that or the military when he finished high school, and he
finished a degree in engineering at the age of 29, nearly 30. He had
just turned 30 when Kirby was born that next summer. Engineering,
with a minor in theatre. Yep, it was one of those university
advisors Tetris situations. <g> Shuffle 160 mismatched credits of
someone who changed minors three times into something that makes sense.
So I look at Kirby, who's 20 and thinking of taking culinary arts
courses, maybe, not in a hurry, who was made an expert cashier today
(or whatever they call it) which comes with a raise and an obligation
to train others, and I don't think "OH NO! He'll never be able to go
to college!" Because here I am, "not using my degree," and there's
Keith, who was much less unemployed when he was Kirby's age than
Kirby is now, and I just don't worry at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
matter most when I'm 80? That my kids learned French and Algebra, or
that they
can form good relationships with people? That they shoot for a top
ten most
in demand career, or that they learn peace and contentment in their
lives and
souls? -=-
They might have all that, but would have CHOSEN all that.
I finished a college degree at the age of 20. It was a GOOD one, in
that I liked it, I use things I learned still, but it wasn't "a good
one" in that it was a technical sciences degree with which people can
get puffed up big-salary jobs for doing sometimes less work than
other people do. I had English with a minor in psychology (and a
minor minor I finished the next year in anthropology) and an I-don't-
like-to-talk-about-it minor (certification requirements, not called a
minor, because it was embarrassing, in education. RICH AND FUN for
me, good for being an English teacher and not much more.
I married a guy who didn't have a degree, who'd been going to school
a little, some, off and on, since his parents basically told him it
was that or the military when he finished high school, and he
finished a degree in engineering at the age of 29, nearly 30. He had
just turned 30 when Kirby was born that next summer. Engineering,
with a minor in theatre. Yep, it was one of those university
advisors Tetris situations. <g> Shuffle 160 mismatched credits of
someone who changed minors three times into something that makes sense.
So I look at Kirby, who's 20 and thinking of taking culinary arts
courses, maybe, not in a hurry, who was made an expert cashier today
(or whatever they call it) which comes with a raise and an obligation
to train others, and I don't think "OH NO! He'll never be able to go
to college!" Because here I am, "not using my degree," and there's
Keith, who was much less unemployed when he was Kirby's age than
Kirby is now, and I just don't worry at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
DDDuh...
Too many ddddds before
I'm going to put this in my rock collection, here:
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Too many ddddds before
I'm going to put this in my rock collection, here:
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]