Cursive/Signatures
Christy Putnam
Okay ya'll, help me figure this out. When a child/preteen/teen is expected
to put their signature on something (bank accounts mainly) are they supposed
to use cursive? I mean isn't that what a signature is? Please help me with
this cuz I am a bit freaked out...
Seth went pre-k through 5th grade in school and of course learned and was
required to write in cursive but since he has been out of school he has
forgotten how to sign his name in cursive. It is very frustrating to me cuz
I feel like this is something he should just be able to do almost on
auto-pilot. One thing I do not expect is him to know all the letters or
anything. I don't know or care to know how to write in cursive but I CAN
sign my name. I don't expect him to do anything but sign his name. Am I
expecting too much?
In Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
Visit my blog &/or join my group:
<http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance>
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
<http://groups.myspace.com/unschoolingourfuture>
http://groups.myspace.com/unschoolingourfuture
"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to put their signature on something (bank accounts mainly) are they supposed
to use cursive? I mean isn't that what a signature is? Please help me with
this cuz I am a bit freaked out...
Seth went pre-k through 5th grade in school and of course learned and was
required to write in cursive but since he has been out of school he has
forgotten how to sign his name in cursive. It is very frustrating to me cuz
I feel like this is something he should just be able to do almost on
auto-pilot. One thing I do not expect is him to know all the letters or
anything. I don't know or care to know how to write in cursive but I CAN
sign my name. I don't expect him to do anything but sign his name. Am I
expecting too much?
In Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
Visit my blog &/or join my group:
<http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance>
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
<http://groups.myspace.com/unschoolingourfuture>
http://groups.myspace.com/unschoolingourfuture
"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't know or care to know how to write in cursive but I CAN
sign my name. I don't expect him to do anything but sign his name. Am I
expecting too much?-=-
Stressing out over it doesn't help.
Is he old enough to need to sign his name? He's eleven, right?
Breathe. Read.
Wait. Smile.
A few things are here:
http://sandradodd.com/cursive
This was just lately discussed on one of the lists. Can someone
remember and put a link? (Even though the link might need to be cut
and pasted...)
I can't believe it cut off a tinyurl.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sign my name. I don't expect him to do anything but sign his name. Am I
expecting too much?-=-
Stressing out over it doesn't help.
Is he old enough to need to sign his name? He's eleven, right?
Breathe. Read.
Wait. Smile.
A few things are here:
http://sandradodd.com/cursive
This was just lately discussed on one of the lists. Can someone
remember and put a link? (Even though the link might need to be cut
and pasted...)
I can't believe it cut off a tinyurl.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vicki a. dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Christy Putnam
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:32 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Cursive/Signatures
"are they supposed
to use cursive? I mean isn't that what a signature is?"
A signature is supposed to be unique to the signer. Lots of folks do not
use cursive or even the full name.
Now if he goes into the military he will have to sign lots of forms and
papers using his full "legal" name with the same spelling as on the birth
certificate or social security card.......a bit of a pain for those who
spent their whole life being known by their "middle" name. One of our
family stories is a cousin whose first name was "Buddy". When getting a
security clearance he had to go back and re-sign everything because it
turned out that his birth certificate had spelled it "Buddye".
But back to Seth. Encourage him to develop his own unique signature which
could be in cursive, in manuscript, in a combo of the two, or a series of
symbols. The idea is that it should be reproducible (by him), and
eventually......NOT so easily reproducible by a forger! THAT is the whole
point of having the "printed" name below a signature on legal documents.
A signature does not need to be "legible" and certainly does not need to be
in schoolboy cursive.
vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Christy Putnam
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:32 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Cursive/Signatures
"are they supposed
to use cursive? I mean isn't that what a signature is?"
A signature is supposed to be unique to the signer. Lots of folks do not
use cursive or even the full name.
Now if he goes into the military he will have to sign lots of forms and
papers using his full "legal" name with the same spelling as on the birth
certificate or social security card.......a bit of a pain for those who
spent their whole life being known by their "middle" name. One of our
family stories is a cousin whose first name was "Buddy". When getting a
security clearance he had to go back and re-sign everything because it
turned out that his birth certificate had spelled it "Buddye".
But back to Seth. Encourage him to develop his own unique signature which
could be in cursive, in manuscript, in a combo of the two, or a series of
symbols. The idea is that it should be reproducible (by him), and
eventually......NOT so easily reproducible by a forger! THAT is the whole
point of having the "printed" name below a signature on legal documents.
A signature does not need to be "legible" and certainly does not need to be
in schoolboy cursive.
vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
If a child's current writing is print, that would be his "signature".
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If a child's current writing is print, that would be his
"signature".-=-
Holly had a fancy signature for a while with a flower for the O
(petals around the O).
That would work if she always used that and others would have a hard
time guessing it. <g>
A friend of mine broke her neck and after that her signature was an
X. But even before that, she was a block-printing kind of person all
the way, a graphics artist who used a Rapidograph even to sign checks.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"signature".-=-
Holly had a fancy signature for a while with a flower for the O
(petals around the O).
That would work if she always used that and others would have a hard
time guessing it. <g>
A friend of mine broke her neck and after that her signature was an
X. But even before that, she was a block-printing kind of person all
the way, a graphics artist who used a Rapidograph even to sign checks.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I was going to go and see if I could find by google any discussion of
legal definitions of signatures and like that. The first thing I
found wasn't directly useful, but is interesting. It was for a
handwriting profiling company.
-=-First, all writers are asked to provide a full-page handwriting
sample on the Handwriting Sample Form with the writer's signature
and date at the bottom using an ink pen (no felt tip pens, markers or
pencils) in the custom they are most comfortable with (print or
cursive). If the writer generally prints, have them include at least
one paragraph of cursive writing. All reports are confidential.-=-
====================================
I question their definition of "ink pen."
I'm guessing they mean ballpoint pen. But ballpoints don't really
have good ink, in a history-of-ink kind of way. If someone said "ink
pen" to me out of that context, I would guess they meant a dip pen,
like a Speedball, to dip in ink—or a fountain pen, with real liquid
ink out of a bottle.
The stuff that's in a ballpoint pen, if you squirt it out in a
puddle, is just a colored grease spot.
So as to handwriting analysis, if someone usually (as I do) uses a
felt tip pen, the writing with a ballpoint won't be their "real
writing."
Just interesting to me that some professional handwriting analysis
outfit considers there's a right kind of pen, and that a paragraph of
cursive from a writer who generally prints, would tell them something
worth charging money about.
I don't remember if this has been mentioned on this list (and no
doubt when the question is asked again in a year or two it might come
back around), but "signature" has to do with the sign of the cross,
with swearing in the name of the father and the son and the holy
spirit to an agreement. the X was at one time a more vertical X—a
cross. But sometimes the document had a red cross already painted on
and the "signer" swore to the agreement while his finger was on the
already-written cross.
Found something, but this and everything else I've read in the past
half hour or so supports printed signatures being fine:
-=-Legal definitions and validity of "Signature"
There is no general statutory definition of "signature" in Australian
and New Zealand statute law. Through many court cases over hundreds
of years, judges have defined "signature" as containing these elements:
. Writing, drawing or affixing;[11]
. With your own hand;[12]
. A version of your own name, or your initials, or "any mark
which identifies it as the act of the party"[13];
. With the intention of authenticating a document as being
written by you, or legally binding on you.[14]
Rubber stamps with the name of a company or person are also legally
valid to serve as a signature.[15] A person may also authorise
another to sign documents on his or her behalf.[16] Long before the
advent of electronic signatures, the law recognised the legal
validity of facsimile signatures - an early victory for electronic
commerce! [17]-=-
http://www.nswscl.org.au/journal/46/Barnett.html
legal definitions of signatures and like that. The first thing I
found wasn't directly useful, but is interesting. It was for a
handwriting profiling company.
-=-First, all writers are asked to provide a full-page handwriting
sample on the Handwriting Sample Form with the writer's signature
and date at the bottom using an ink pen (no felt tip pens, markers or
pencils) in the custom they are most comfortable with (print or
cursive). If the writer generally prints, have them include at least
one paragraph of cursive writing. All reports are confidential.-=-
====================================
I question their definition of "ink pen."
I'm guessing they mean ballpoint pen. But ballpoints don't really
have good ink, in a history-of-ink kind of way. If someone said "ink
pen" to me out of that context, I would guess they meant a dip pen,
like a Speedball, to dip in ink—or a fountain pen, with real liquid
ink out of a bottle.
The stuff that's in a ballpoint pen, if you squirt it out in a
puddle, is just a colored grease spot.
So as to handwriting analysis, if someone usually (as I do) uses a
felt tip pen, the writing with a ballpoint won't be their "real
writing."
Just interesting to me that some professional handwriting analysis
outfit considers there's a right kind of pen, and that a paragraph of
cursive from a writer who generally prints, would tell them something
worth charging money about.
I don't remember if this has been mentioned on this list (and no
doubt when the question is asked again in a year or two it might come
back around), but "signature" has to do with the sign of the cross,
with swearing in the name of the father and the son and the holy
spirit to an agreement. the X was at one time a more vertical X—a
cross. But sometimes the document had a red cross already painted on
and the "signer" swore to the agreement while his finger was on the
already-written cross.
Found something, but this and everything else I've read in the past
half hour or so supports printed signatures being fine:
-=-Legal definitions and validity of "Signature"
There is no general statutory definition of "signature" in Australian
and New Zealand statute law. Through many court cases over hundreds
of years, judges have defined "signature" as containing these elements:
. Writing, drawing or affixing;[11]
. With your own hand;[12]
. A version of your own name, or your initials, or "any mark
which identifies it as the act of the party"[13];
. With the intention of authenticating a document as being
written by you, or legally binding on you.[14]
Rubber stamps with the name of a company or person are also legally
valid to serve as a signature.[15] A person may also authorise
another to sign documents on his or her behalf.[16] Long before the
advent of electronic signatures, the law recognised the legal
validity of facsimile signatures - an early victory for electronic
commerce! [17]-=-
http://www.nswscl.org.au/journal/46/Barnett.html
nellebelle
I have a very part-time job in which I file reports via email. The form
supplied by the company has a space for my signature at the bottom. I just
type in my name.
Mary Ellen
supplied by the company has a space for my signature at the bottom. I just
type in my name.
Mary Ellen
ChelleBelle
A lot of the signatures I see are just scribbles! Maybe it would be fun for him to just make up a signature of his own.
Just my 2 cents!
Michelle
nellebelle <nellebelle@...> wrote:
I have a very part-time job in which I file reports via email. The form
supplied by the company has a space for my signature at the bottom. I just
type in my name.
Mary Ellen
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just my 2 cents!
Michelle
nellebelle <nellebelle@...> wrote:
I have a very part-time job in which I file reports via email. The form
supplied by the company has a space for my signature at the bottom. I just
type in my name.
Mary Ellen
Yahoo! Groups Links
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
My 9 yo has to sign her name occasionally on pony club form and she just
prints it. No one has ever questioned it.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
prints it. No one has ever questioned it.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S.
And my signature isn't legible and no one has ever questioned it either.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
:) diana
PS. When talking to regional homeschoolers recently, one went on and on about "forcing" her child to write, as it was soooo important to have good handwriting... I shared with her that Stephen King writes longhand and has a hard time finding people to decipher it - but it hasn't stopped him from making millions thru his passion. I added, I hope you don't "handwriting" his novel out of him <beg>
queenjane555
> Hayden, 7.75, had to get a state issued ID card to travel viawas >no request nor pressure about a cursive signature.
> airplane. He printed his name on the electronic thingie, there
I wonder if a child's signature "means" anything before the legal
age of consent anyway. My son recently opened up a savings account
with a check he received as an inheritance. He signed the check
(printed his name), but i had to sign it anyway. He wouldnt have
been able to open the acct without me. He cant withdraw money
without me either.
When Seamus got his passport he was around 4 yrs old, its "signed"
with his name, but its his father's handwriting not his.
When you sign any legal paperwork (like a check, or a contract),
your signature is a kind of consent or a promise. Children can't
legally consent to things like that before a certain age (usually
18), so i dont see how it matters whether they use their "real"
signature or not.
My mom is disabled from a stroke. She signs paperwork but its not a
signature, its a very child-like block printing. Its still her mark,
it still counts.
Katherine
marji
At 13:42 6/10/2006, you wrote:
PS. When talking to regional homeschoolers recently, one went on and on about "forcing" her child to write, as it was soooo important to have good handwriting... I shared with her that Stephen King writes longhand and has a hard time finding people to decipher it - but it hasn't stopped him from making millions thru his passion. I added, I hope you don't "handwriting" his novel out of him <beg>
Neither has poor handwriting hurt physicians' ability to succeed! BTW, didja hear the one about the doctors' strike at the local hospital? They had to call in pharmacists to read the picket signs! (rim shot here)
~marji