overnight
Kathleen Gehrke
Hi All,
I read constantly, post once in a while. But I have a dilema so who
better to take it to than you wise women.
My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends. I immediately said no.
I need input.
Kathleen
I read constantly, post once in a while. But I have a dilema so who
better to take it to than you wise women.
My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends. I immediately said no.
I need input.
Kathleen
Rod Thomas
My 13 year old son said today,
"I wish I were normal like everyone else, I wish I had gone to school
from the beginning because now its too late.
I would be embarrassed that I don't know as much as they do."
He does not want to go now.
My first reaction was, On my, what have I done?
Now what?
Flyerkat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"I wish I were normal like everyone else, I wish I had gone to school
from the beginning because now its too late.
I would be embarrassed that I don't know as much as they do."
He does not want to go now.
My first reaction was, On my, what have I done?
Now what?
Flyerkat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends. I immediately said no.
-=-I need input.-=-
Insufficient information.
Tell us more.
boyfriends. I immediately said no.
-=-I need input.-=-
Insufficient information.
Tell us more.
Sandra Dodd
-=-My 13 year old son said today,
"I wish I were normal like everyone else, I wish I had gone to school
from the beginning because now its too late.
I would be embarrassed that I don't know as much as they do."
He does not want to go now.
My first reaction was, On my, what have I done?-=-
Half the kids at school don't "know as much as they do."
Talk about thing he does know, about things school kids famously
don't (recent studies about the embarrassing ignorances in geography,
maybe, for example). Find more unschoolers or homeschoolers so he's
not just dependent on schooled kids for examples.
Sandra
"I wish I were normal like everyone else, I wish I had gone to school
from the beginning because now its too late.
I would be embarrassed that I don't know as much as they do."
He does not want to go now.
My first reaction was, On my, what have I done?-=-
Half the kids at school don't "know as much as they do."
Talk about thing he does know, about things school kids famously
don't (recent studies about the embarrassing ignorances in geography,
maybe, for example). Find more unschoolers or homeschoolers so he's
not just dependent on schooled kids for examples.
Sandra
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...>
My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends. I immediately said no.
-=-=-=-
Why did you say no?
What are your reasons? Are you OK with them? Or are you questioning
your own reaction?
What's the worst that could happen? What's the best?
What could make you say yes? Do you even want to say yes? <g>
Why does she want to stay there? Really?
How old is the boyfriend?
More background, please.
~Kelly, whose son's girlfriend stayed here last night <g>
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
From: Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...>
My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends. I immediately said no.
-=-=-=-
Why did you say no?
What are your reasons? Are you OK with them? Or are you questioning
your own reaction?
What's the worst that could happen? What's the best?
What could make you say yes? Do you even want to say yes? <g>
Why does she want to stay there? Really?
How old is the boyfriend?
More background, please.
~Kelly, whose son's girlfriend stayed here last night <g>
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
Kathleen Gehrke
Okay more information. Megan has been unschooling since December of
this past year. She is my third child, oldest at home and has six
younger siblings. The other kids have been unschooling longer.
Once she left school she got her nurses aid certificate and a job.
It was her choice. She recently got her drivers license. Our
relationship has improved on a daily basis. I am still learning and
saying yes more has felt great.
Her boyfriend is a nice enough boy. He is well spoken and gets along
with Megan well. They have been dating for four month. I am certain
they are sexually active and she is on birth control. He is
seventeen.
I guess I am questioning my immediate no. I am questioning why my
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night. How lame is that. I know
my own issues are mixed up in my reaction. I left home with the
wrong boy at 15. I do not think she is leaving home, but would I be
comfortable if he was in her room? If he spends the night will I
feel like I want to police the situation. I hate being a cop.
Her and I have struggled a lot. When I said no today she was really
angry and yelled at me. Of course I was questioning my reaction, but
needed to consider it. She is at work now and my no is still what is
on the table. I needed to think more, but her and I did not address
it further.
I really need an unschooling perspective on this. I do not want to
struggle with this girl whom I love so much, but also do not want to
feel like my personal boundaries are crossed.
Looking for input
Kathleen
this past year. She is my third child, oldest at home and has six
younger siblings. The other kids have been unschooling longer.
Once she left school she got her nurses aid certificate and a job.
It was her choice. She recently got her drivers license. Our
relationship has improved on a daily basis. I am still learning and
saying yes more has felt great.
Her boyfriend is a nice enough boy. He is well spoken and gets along
with Megan well. They have been dating for four month. I am certain
they are sexually active and she is on birth control. He is
seventeen.
I guess I am questioning my immediate no. I am questioning why my
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night. How lame is that. I know
my own issues are mixed up in my reaction. I left home with the
wrong boy at 15. I do not think she is leaving home, but would I be
comfortable if he was in her room? If he spends the night will I
feel like I want to police the situation. I hate being a cop.
Her and I have struggled a lot. When I said no today she was really
angry and yelled at me. Of course I was questioning my reaction, but
needed to consider it. She is at work now and my no is still what is
on the table. I needed to think more, but her and I did not address
it further.
I really need an unschooling perspective on this. I do not want to
struggle with this girl whom I love so much, but also do not want to
feel like my personal boundaries are crossed.
Looking for input
Kathleen
[email protected]
<<but also do not want to feel like my personal boundaries are being
crossed....>>
So let's talk about your personal boundaries.....
You are pretty sure they are already sexually active so that isn't an
issue....
She is wanting to be honest and open with you so sneaking around and
running off isn't the issue.....
What IS the issue?
Julie S.
crossed....>>
So let's talk about your personal boundaries.....
You are pretty sure they are already sexually active so that isn't an
issue....
She is wanting to be honest and open with you so sneaking around and
running off isn't the issue.....
What IS the issue?
Julie S.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess I am questioning my immediate no. I am questioning why my
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night-=-
Some do.
But your question wasn't about him spending the night at your
house. You wrote this:
-=-My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends.-=-
-=-Her and I have struggled a lot.-=-
She's only been unschooled for a very short while—not even a year.
So I don't expect her relationship with you to be as relaxed and open
as it might be if she had unschooled for a long time. And you have
seven kids. She might have been feeling unattended to for a long,
long time.
There are kids her age living with a boyfriend's family, or the other
way around—a boyfriend who has come to live with the girlfriend's
family. Spending one night isn't the same as that.
If she's sexually active and you know that, why make her be secretive
and strained?
When I was 30 years old and Keith was 27, his mom wouldn't let us
share a bed at her house because we weren't married. We had been
living together for years. We're still together. But those were
"her boundaries." It was her house. So it goes. We wouldn't have
had sex in her house anyway. Maybe your daughter wouldn't want to
either, with you and six siblings there.
But again, you said at the boyfriend's house.
Past all that, there are lots of 16 year olds who go to camp, or week-
long workshops or seminars or bootcamp or college.
My dad sent my college boyfriend out in the snow to hitch-hike 25
miles to my MOM's house because he wouldn't let him stay in the same
house where I was overnight . That was massively stupid. I was
furious, but couldn't do much about it. We had hitch-hiked to their
house to visit. It was just awful. We could've stayed in different
rooms. He could've loaned him a car. That's the worst thing I can
think of with my dad, and within about three years, my dad was
"living in sin" with someone, too.
Sandra
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night-=-
Some do.
But your question wasn't about him spending the night at your
house. You wrote this:
-=-My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends.-=-
-=-Her and I have struggled a lot.-=-
She's only been unschooled for a very short while—not even a year.
So I don't expect her relationship with you to be as relaxed and open
as it might be if she had unschooled for a long time. And you have
seven kids. She might have been feeling unattended to for a long,
long time.
There are kids her age living with a boyfriend's family, or the other
way around—a boyfriend who has come to live with the girlfriend's
family. Spending one night isn't the same as that.
If she's sexually active and you know that, why make her be secretive
and strained?
When I was 30 years old and Keith was 27, his mom wouldn't let us
share a bed at her house because we weren't married. We had been
living together for years. We're still together. But those were
"her boundaries." It was her house. So it goes. We wouldn't have
had sex in her house anyway. Maybe your daughter wouldn't want to
either, with you and six siblings there.
But again, you said at the boyfriend's house.
Past all that, there are lots of 16 year olds who go to camp, or week-
long workshops or seminars or bootcamp or college.
My dad sent my college boyfriend out in the snow to hitch-hike 25
miles to my MOM's house because he wouldn't let him stay in the same
house where I was overnight . That was massively stupid. I was
furious, but couldn't do much about it. We had hitch-hiked to their
house to visit. It was just awful. We could've stayed in different
rooms. He could've loaned him a car. That's the worst thing I can
think of with my dad, and within about three years, my dad was
"living in sin" with someone, too.
Sandra
C Johnson
Have you ever read The Unprocessed Child:Living Without School by Valerie Fitzenreiter. It has really helped me when I start to have doubts.
Chrissie
Rod Thomas <rodneykathy@...> wrote:
My 13 year old son said today,
"I wish I were normal like everyone else, I wish I had gone to school
from the beginning because now its too late.
I would be embarrassed that I don't know as much as they do."
He does not want to go now.
My first reaction was, On my, what have I done?
Now what?
Flyerkat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chrissie
Rod Thomas <rodneykathy@...> wrote:
My 13 year old son said today,
"I wish I were normal like everyone else, I wish I had gone to school
from the beginning because now its too late.
I would be embarrassed that I don't know as much as they do."
He does not want to go now.
My first reaction was, On my, what have I done?
Now what?
Flyerkat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SPONSORED LINKS
Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt Parenting magazine Single parenting
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time you have been given." Gandalf
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Danielle Conger
Kathleen Gehrke wrote:
kids are really young still, but I can tell what I did and how I felt.
By the age of sixteen, I'd had several years of caring for myself, being
the adult in the house. I'd been caring for myself, doing my own
laundry, staying home alone, etc. for several years. I'd lost my father,
watched him die a long death. I'd put my mother, passed out on the
kitchen table, to bed. I resented every moment someone treated me as a
child.
By the age of sixteen I was not only sexually active, I was sneaking out
of my house, climbing out my bedroom window, jumping off the roof,
rolling the car down the driveway in neutral and going to my boyfriend's
house in the middle of the night. I did this because I was in love,
because I wanted to, because there wasn't much other choice, because no
one was taking me seriously.
If you and your daughter are already struggling, is this likely to help?
Is your "no" likely to stop anything? Is your "no" likely to alienate
her, make her feel resentful, make her sneak around, make her feel like
you don't trust her or take her seriously as a person?
What's a yes likely to do?
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
>Okay, this is not an "unschooling" perspective necessarily because my
>
> Her and I have struggled a lot. When I said no today she was really
> angry and yelled at me. Of course I was questioning my reaction, but
> needed to consider it. She is at work now and my no is still what is
> on the table. I needed to think more, but her and I did not address
> it further.
kids are really young still, but I can tell what I did and how I felt.
By the age of sixteen, I'd had several years of caring for myself, being
the adult in the house. I'd been caring for myself, doing my own
laundry, staying home alone, etc. for several years. I'd lost my father,
watched him die a long death. I'd put my mother, passed out on the
kitchen table, to bed. I resented every moment someone treated me as a
child.
By the age of sixteen I was not only sexually active, I was sneaking out
of my house, climbing out my bedroom window, jumping off the roof,
rolling the car down the driveway in neutral and going to my boyfriend's
house in the middle of the night. I did this because I was in love,
because I wanted to, because there wasn't much other choice, because no
one was taking me seriously.
If you and your daughter are already struggling, is this likely to help?
Is your "no" likely to stop anything? Is your "no" likely to alienate
her, make her feel resentful, make her sneak around, make her feel like
you don't trust her or take her seriously as a person?
What's a yes likely to do?
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], Danielle Conger
<danielle.conger@...> wrote:
for her.
keep reflecting what my issue is. It is my fear for her growing up
too fast? Is it what people will say? I do not really think so.
Since she is out of school dating one of the three african american
guys in our entire small town. <G> I think it is about her being an
adult. She did not however say can I live at Mikes. She said can I
stay the night. She also asked if he could stay at our house one
night. Her little brothers think he is awesome and would love for
Mike to stay.
If it is a sleep over it is not about sex. She has not even said
where anyone would sleep.
What would and do each of you say when the question comes to you?
Kathleen
still mulling
<danielle.conger@...> wrote:
>being
>
> By the age of sixteen, I'd had several years of caring for myself,
> the adult in the house.Me too Danielle. I think my having to be an adult feeds into my fear
for her.
> By the age of sixteen I was not only sexually active, I wassneaking out
> of my house, climbing out my bedroom window, jumping off the roof,boyfriend's
> rolling the car down the driveway in neutral and going to my
> house in the middle of the night. I did this because I was inlove,
> because I wanted to, because there wasn't much other choice,because no
> one was taking me seriously.I can totally relate.
>help?
> If you and your daughter are already struggling, is this likely to
> Is your "no" likely to stop anything? Is your "no" likely toalienate
> her, make her feel resentful, make her sneak around, make her feellike
> you don't trust her or take her seriously as a person?I totally respect her. I admire what a great talented kid she is. I
>
> What's a yes likely to do?
keep reflecting what my issue is. It is my fear for her growing up
too fast? Is it what people will say? I do not really think so.
Since she is out of school dating one of the three african american
guys in our entire small town. <G> I think it is about her being an
adult. She did not however say can I live at Mikes. She said can I
stay the night. She also asked if he could stay at our house one
night. Her little brothers think he is awesome and would love for
Mike to stay.
If it is a sleep over it is not about sex. She has not even said
where anyone would sleep.
What would and do each of you say when the question comes to you?
Kathleen
still mulling
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
the head about our relationship. Her unschooling journey of trust
has been slow. She hung onto lots of schoolish things long after the
rest of us had let go, including her needing to be more
secretive.And here she is openning up and I am freaking out. Not
exactly freaking, but definately being authoritarian.
I don't want her to sneak around with her life. I appreciate her
asking frankly. There was something in the whole exchange that made
me feel as if she was trying to take advantage. It is somehow my
issue. It is me being small minded. Like look I have given her all
this freedom and she wants more... What the heck. Maybe I have not
come as far as I thought.
her come stay with us after another foster home had her leave. She
stayed for a year after they had broken up. She still phones on a
regular basis.
Spending one night isn't the same as that.
No it is not.
you can truly have that lots of other times from a sleep over.
Maybe your daughter wouldn't want to
And what do you do when your kids want to have someone they are
involved with sleep over , or sleep over there?
Kathleen
wrote:
>year.
> She's only been unschooled for a very short whilenot even a
> So I don't expect her relationship with you to be as relaxed andopen
> as it might be if she had unschooled for a long time. And youhave
> seven kids. She might have been feeling unattended to for along,
> long time.Actually she is number three of nine. You totally hit the nail on
the head about our relationship. Her unschooling journey of trust
has been slow. She hung onto lots of schoolish things long after the
rest of us had let go, including her needing to be more
secretive.And here she is openning up and I am freaking out. Not
exactly freaking, but definately being authoritarian.
I don't want her to sneak around with her life. I appreciate her
asking frankly. There was something in the whole exchange that made
me feel as if she was trying to take advantage. It is somehow my
issue. It is me being small minded. Like look I have given her all
this freedom and she wants more... What the heck. Maybe I have not
come as far as I thought.
>other
> There are kids her age living with a boyfriend's family, or the
> way arounda boyfriend who has come to live with the girlfriend'sMy sons girlfriend was in fostercare with us for two years. I has
> family.
her come stay with us after another foster home had her leave. She
stayed for a year after they had broken up. She still phones on a
regular basis.
Spending one night isn't the same as that.
No it is not.
>secretive
> If she's sexually active and you know that, why make her be
> and strained?I really do not think this sleep over is about sex. If it was sex
you can truly have that lots of other times from a sleep over.
>were
> When I was 30 years old and Keith was 27, his mom wouldn't let us
> share a bed at her house because we weren't married. We had been
> living together for years. We're still together. But those
> "her boundaries." It was her house. So it goes. We wouldn'thave
> had sex in her house anyway.I had the same situation when I met my hubbys family.
Maybe your daughter wouldn't want to
> either, with you and six siblings there.She has also asked for him to come here.
>
> But again, you said at the boyfriend's house.
And what do you do when your kids want to have someone they are
involved with sleep over , or sleep over there?
Kathleen
Sandra Dodd
-=-Since she is out of school dating one of the three african american
guys in our entire small town. <G> I think it is about her being an
adult. She did not however say can I live at Mikes. She said can I
stay the night. She also asked if he could stay at our house one
night. Her little brothers think he is awesome and would love for
Mike to stay. -=-
Are you in a scary racist little town?
If not I wouldn't worry about it at all, if the kids aren't worried.
My kids have been at lots of mixed-gender sleepovers, all through the
years. Once when Holly was disinvited (required to go home at 10:00
for being the only girl) we were all kinda traumatized.
That was just a year ago.<g>
If Mike lived in another town and came a long distance for the
weekend, wouldn't you let him stay over? Kids shouldn't be penalized
for living near. If he lived far away she might go visit him and
you'd have no oversight or involvement at all (as with LOTS of teens'
parents).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
guys in our entire small town. <G> I think it is about her being an
adult. She did not however say can I live at Mikes. She said can I
stay the night. She also asked if he could stay at our house one
night. Her little brothers think he is awesome and would love for
Mike to stay. -=-
Are you in a scary racist little town?
If not I wouldn't worry about it at all, if the kids aren't worried.
My kids have been at lots of mixed-gender sleepovers, all through the
years. Once when Holly was disinvited (required to go home at 10:00
for being the only girl) we were all kinda traumatized.
That was just a year ago.<g>
If Mike lived in another town and came a long distance for the
weekend, wouldn't you let him stay over? Kids shouldn't be penalized
for living near. If he lived far away she might go visit him and
you'd have no oversight or involvement at all (as with LOTS of teens'
parents).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=
And what do you do when your kids want to have someone they are
involved with sleep over , or sleep over there?-=-
I've never said no about my kids staying elsewhere or others staying
here. It would seem odd and cruel to me if someone who had already
stayed over was suddenly told "No more; git" because she had become
involved with one of my boys.
It hasn't actually happened with us, but I can't see why I would say
no, honestly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And what do you do when your kids want to have someone they are
involved with sleep over , or sleep over there?-=-
I've never said no about my kids staying elsewhere or others staying
here. It would seem odd and cruel to me if someone who had already
stayed over was suddenly told "No more; git" because she had become
involved with one of my boys.
It hasn't actually happened with us, but I can't see why I would say
no, honestly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 5, 2006, at 8:22 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
<G>
There is one family that doesn't let the girls stay when all the boys
do - for all-night LAN parties. And they make the girls go in the
front room when the mother is not home EVEN when the dad is there.
Weird.
Mixed gender all-nighters are pretty common among my kids' friends.
That's different than a boyfriend/girlfriend sleep-over, though. My
husband doesn't like the boyfriend/girlfriend sleepovers - can't
really say why except it feels wrong to him (poor guy - he's from
Iran and when he was growing up there was so much repression that
even making eye-contact with a girl was scandalous). But my oldest
daughter's boyfriend has stayed here for weekends MANY times and she
stays at his family's house a lot, too. My husband just tries to be
nice as he can about it, even though it really does bother him.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My kids have been at lots of mixed-gender sleepovers, all through theMy kids too. In fact, a couple of those have been WITH Sandra's kids!
> years. Once when Holly was disinvited (required to go home at 10:00
> for being the only girl) we were all kinda traumatized.
<G>
There is one family that doesn't let the girls stay when all the boys
do - for all-night LAN parties. And they make the girls go in the
front room when the mother is not home EVEN when the dad is there.
Weird.
Mixed gender all-nighters are pretty common among my kids' friends.
That's different than a boyfriend/girlfriend sleep-over, though. My
husband doesn't like the boyfriend/girlfriend sleepovers - can't
really say why except it feels wrong to him (poor guy - he's from
Iran and when he was growing up there was so much repression that
even making eye-contact with a girl was scandalous). But my oldest
daughter's boyfriend has stayed here for weekends MANY times and she
stays at his family's house a lot, too. My husband just tries to be
nice as he can about it, even though it really does bother him.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim H
<I guess I am questioning my immediate no. I am questioning why my
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night. How lame is that. I know
my own issues are mixed up in my reaction. >
How about discussing it with your daughter. Coming at life with black and white nos doesn't seem to work out well for everyone involved - especially for the younger person. Discussing with your daughter how you really feel about the whole thing, your experiences when you were young, your regrets, how your parents handled things, what you learnt from that. Ask her how she feels, go on and on and just talk. Problem solving and lots of negotiating are more reasonable ways of working through issues rather than being in the mind of controller. Saying no isn't going to stop your daughter sleeping with her boyfriend and it will probably make her more likely to want to do it. Be an open book and connection will grow.
Kim
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night. How lame is that. I know
my own issues are mixed up in my reaction. >
How about discussing it with your daughter. Coming at life with black and white nos doesn't seem to work out well for everyone involved - especially for the younger person. Discussing with your daughter how you really feel about the whole thing, your experiences when you were young, your regrets, how your parents handled things, what you learnt from that. Ask her how she feels, go on and on and just talk. Problem solving and lots of negotiating are more reasonable ways of working through issues rather than being in the mind of controller. Saying no isn't going to stop your daughter sleeping with her boyfriend and it will probably make her more likely to want to do it. Be an open book and connection will grow.
Kim
----- Original Message -----
From: Kathleen Gehrke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: overnight
Okay more information. Megan has been unschooling since December of
this past year. She is my third child, oldest at home and has six
younger siblings. The other kids have been unschooling longer.
Once she left school she got her nurses aid certificate and a job.
It was her choice. She recently got her drivers license. Our
relationship has improved on a daily basis. I am still learning and
saying yes more has felt great.
Her boyfriend is a nice enough boy. He is well spoken and gets along
with Megan well. They have been dating for four month. I am certain
they are sexually active and she is on birth control. He is
seventeen.
I guess I am questioning my immediate no. I am questioning why my
reaction was no. She asked. I said because sixteen year old girls do
not have their boyfriends spend the night. How lame is that. I know
my own issues are mixed up in my reaction. I left home with the
wrong boy at 15. I do not think she is leaving home, but would I be
comfortable if he was in her room? If he spends the night will I
feel like I want to police the situation. I hate being a cop.
Her and I have struggled a lot. When I said no today she was really
angry and yelled at me. Of course I was questioning my reaction, but
needed to consider it. She is at work now and my no is still what is
on the table. I needed to think more, but her and I did not address
it further.
I really need an unschooling perspective on this. I do not want to
struggle with this girl whom I love so much, but also do not want to
feel like my personal boundaries are crossed.
Looking for input
Kathleen
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
<<<What would and do each of you say when the question comes to you?>>>
We have had many variations of this. We often have overnight guests and it
matters little to me if they are boys or girls. Often they are all camped
together in the livingroom when I get up in the morning. Most of these are
just friends who stayed too late and didn't want to drive home.
But the girls are dating and have been or are in longer-term relationships.
Their values in regard to sex are different than mine. I do ask that they
respect my values in our home though. I have younger kids and it matters to
me. We are very open about all of this and though I don't agree with their
choices, I certainly respect their choices and they in turn respect where
I'm coming from. If a boyfriend is staying over I ask that they not sleep
together alone in their room. (if they're part of the group staying over,
then I certainly don't separate them). And it's not so much that this is a
'rule', but that we've talked about that I am uncomfortable with that
scenario and this is what we've come up with as a family. It's not discussed
in right vs wrong way, but as a difference in values. They have been happy
to accommodate me in this area. When the boyfriend's sleep over, it's
usually not about sex anyway, it's about hanging out or not driving home
late or an early morning event (and in the case of Lisa, a boyfriend that
lives in Florida). Lisa goes to Florida to visit him as well and I know the
rules are different in their house. I wouldn't dream of imposing my values
on their home. I think it all comes down to lots of talking and sharing of
perspectives. I think it also has a lot to do with respecting one another's
values.
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-15, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
We have had many variations of this. We often have overnight guests and it
matters little to me if they are boys or girls. Often they are all camped
together in the livingroom when I get up in the morning. Most of these are
just friends who stayed too late and didn't want to drive home.
But the girls are dating and have been or are in longer-term relationships.
Their values in regard to sex are different than mine. I do ask that they
respect my values in our home though. I have younger kids and it matters to
me. We are very open about all of this and though I don't agree with their
choices, I certainly respect their choices and they in turn respect where
I'm coming from. If a boyfriend is staying over I ask that they not sleep
together alone in their room. (if they're part of the group staying over,
then I certainly don't separate them). And it's not so much that this is a
'rule', but that we've talked about that I am uncomfortable with that
scenario and this is what we've come up with as a family. It's not discussed
in right vs wrong way, but as a difference in values. They have been happy
to accommodate me in this area. When the boyfriend's sleep over, it's
usually not about sex anyway, it's about hanging out or not driving home
late or an early morning event (and in the case of Lisa, a boyfriend that
lives in Florida). Lisa goes to Florida to visit him as well and I know the
rules are different in their house. I wouldn't dream of imposing my values
on their home. I think it all comes down to lots of talking and sharing of
perspectives. I think it also has a lot to do with respecting one another's
values.
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-15, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 6/5/06, Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...>
And what do you do when your kids want to have someone they are
involved with sleep over , or sleep over there?
-=-=-=-=-
I asked my myself this question before I even had kids. Or maybe it was
when I was pregnant with Cameron, and they said he was a girl?
My feeling was that I didn't want my little girl to be having her first
sexual experience in the back of a toyota (not hat I did---I was in a
college dorm twin bed! <g>). I wanted her first experience to be
pleasant and beautiful and memorable and all that. In my pre-kid
day-dreamings, I would set the house up just so.... and leave her and
her boyfriend alone in the house.
Seemed cooler when it was *my* daughter. But I have two sons! <G> What
mother would want *me* to be the mother of her daughter's boyfriend???
<bwg>
So, in reality: I know from experience that they can have sex almost
anywhere and almost at any time. They *could* sneak off and lie and
find dangerous places and forget condoms and all sorts of mean, nasty,
ugly stuff...
Or I could be smarter than that:
I make sure there are new condoms always available. I've talked with
Carly about birth control (that *totally* freaked her out the first
time!) and offered to take her to my OBGyn (her own mom finally did).
They can ask for "alone time"---and no one will disturb them. They're
actually very discreet.
Cameron and I talk openly and frankly about sex. It's not always the
*most* comfortable conversation! <G> But we both do our best! <bwg>
I think it all boils down to how would *you* have liked to have been
treated?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...>
And what do you do when your kids want to have someone they are
involved with sleep over , or sleep over there?
-=-=-=-=-
I asked my myself this question before I even had kids. Or maybe it was
when I was pregnant with Cameron, and they said he was a girl?
My feeling was that I didn't want my little girl to be having her first
sexual experience in the back of a toyota (not hat I did---I was in a
college dorm twin bed! <g>). I wanted her first experience to be
pleasant and beautiful and memorable and all that. In my pre-kid
day-dreamings, I would set the house up just so.... and leave her and
her boyfriend alone in the house.
Seemed cooler when it was *my* daughter. But I have two sons! <G> What
mother would want *me* to be the mother of her daughter's boyfriend???
<bwg>
So, in reality: I know from experience that they can have sex almost
anywhere and almost at any time. They *could* sneak off and lie and
find dangerous places and forget condoms and all sorts of mean, nasty,
ugly stuff...
Or I could be smarter than that:
I make sure there are new condoms always available. I've talked with
Carly about birth control (that *totally* freaked her out the first
time!) and offered to take her to my OBGyn (her own mom finally did).
They can ask for "alone time"---and no one will disturb them. They're
actually very discreet.
Cameron and I talk openly and frankly about sex. It's not always the
*most* comfortable conversation! <G> But we both do our best! <bwg>
I think it all boils down to how would *you* have liked to have been
treated?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Sandra Dodd
-= > My kids have been at lots of mixed-gender sleepovers, all
through the
<G>-=-
The first time my boys were up late with Pam's girls was a few years
back. They were still up and talking in the living room after all
parents were asleep elsewhere and I was worried about what Pam's
husband would think, and had the fleeting thought that if one of my
boys were to go crazy and even kiss one of those girls, we were a
long long way from home to be thrown out at 3:00 a.m. by someone I
really liked. Then I thought "Hey�this is Kirby and Marty I'm
thinking about!" Safe guys, and Pam's girls could defend themselves
from hypothetical momentary young-teen-Dodd insanity, no doubt.
Years back this kind of discussion came up, about whether anyone
would allow mixed slumber parties, and that was even a question about
young kids, 12ish, I think. And one of the moms said if we thought
kids could sleep in the same room without having sex, we were
deluding ourselves. Maybe I can find the exact quote. I thought it
was really funny. Kinda sad and stunning, but also, in context of
people's real experiences (personal and with kids) it said much more
about that writer than about humans in general or about unschooled kids.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
through the
> years. Once when Holly was disinvited (required to go home at 10:00My kids too. In fact, a couple of those have been WITH Sandra's kids!
> for being the only girl) we were all kinda traumatized.
<G>-=-
The first time my boys were up late with Pam's girls was a few years
back. They were still up and talking in the living room after all
parents were asleep elsewhere and I was worried about what Pam's
husband would think, and had the fleeting thought that if one of my
boys were to go crazy and even kiss one of those girls, we were a
long long way from home to be thrown out at 3:00 a.m. by someone I
really liked. Then I thought "Hey�this is Kirby and Marty I'm
thinking about!" Safe guys, and Pam's girls could defend themselves
from hypothetical momentary young-teen-Dodd insanity, no doubt.
Years back this kind of discussion came up, about whether anyone
would allow mixed slumber parties, and that was even a question about
young kids, 12ish, I think. And one of the moms said if we thought
kids could sleep in the same room without having sex, we were
deluding ourselves. Maybe I can find the exact quote. I thought it
was really funny. Kinda sad and stunning, but also, in context of
people's real experiences (personal and with kids) it said much more
about that writer than about humans in general or about unschooled kids.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
has shared and will talk to Megan and let her know that sleep overs
are okay with me. And talk to her about my reaction and fears. We have
always talked openly about sexual things. The sleepover I am sure is
not particularly a sexual thing just a thing.
It is amazing to me how strong my reaction was. Fear and conditioning
is a powerful force in our actions. After the interaction with her
when I really started questioning myself, THANKS JULIE, and
considering what you all said I agree.
A philosophy takes practice.
Thanks for sharing with me and helping me work through this.
Kathleen
By the way I do live in a bit of a scary racist town.
Megan and Mike were told by two twenty some year old boys they were
going to burn in hell. Megan was loud and sure in her reply to them.
Bothe kids were upset by the exchange.
>It is good to know. I have been considering all the things everyone
> -= > My kids have been at lots of mixed-gender sleepovers, all
> through the
> > years.
has shared and will talk to Megan and let her know that sleep overs
are okay with me. And talk to her about my reaction and fears. We have
always talked openly about sexual things. The sleepover I am sure is
not particularly a sexual thing just a thing.
It is amazing to me how strong my reaction was. Fear and conditioning
is a powerful force in our actions. After the interaction with her
when I really started questioning myself, THANKS JULIE, and
considering what you all said I agree.
A philosophy takes practice.
Thanks for sharing with me and helping me work through this.
Kathleen
By the way I do live in a bit of a scary racist town.
Megan and Mike were told by two twenty some year old boys they were
going to burn in hell. Megan was loud and sure in her reply to them.
Bothe kids were upset by the exchange.
Sandra Dodd
-=-By the way I do live in a bit of a scary racist town.-=-
Then maybe Mike shouldn't leave all by himself in the morning, but
should be walked out clearly in the light of day by YOU, smiling,
wishing him well.
The probably goes for other people in other towns of other colors,
too, though. If twitchy neighbors think a teenaged girl is being
sneaky and promiscuous, it might embolden their perverted streak (if
they have one).
And as to burning in hell, today is (in both European reckoning and
north American) 6/6/6
so if the devil's going to make a move, today's the day.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Then maybe Mike shouldn't leave all by himself in the morning, but
should be walked out clearly in the light of day by YOU, smiling,
wishing him well.
The probably goes for other people in other towns of other colors,
too, though. If twitchy neighbors think a teenaged girl is being
sneaky and promiscuous, it might embolden their perverted streak (if
they have one).
And as to burning in hell, today is (in both European reckoning and
north American) 6/6/6
so if the devil's going to make a move, today's the day.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
Ah, here in Michigan, we have a town called Hell. It's quite a day today in
Hell, Michigan. Lots of activities and special events. But they assure us
that all is well and the world will continue tomorrow.
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-15, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
Hell, Michigan. Lots of activities and special events. But they assure us
that all is well and the world will continue tomorrow.
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-15, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 6/6/06, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-By the way I do live in a bit of a scary racist town.-=-
>
> Then maybe Mike shouldn't leave all by himself in the morning, but
> should be walked out clearly in the light of day by YOU, smiling,
> wishing him well.
> The probably goes for other people in other towns of other colors,
> too, though. If twitchy neighbors think a teenaged girl is being
> sneaky and promiscuous, it might embolden their perverted streak (if
> they have one).
>
> And as to burning in hell, today is (in both European reckoning and
> north American) 6/6/6
> so if the devil's going to make a move, today's the day.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***My sixteen year old daughter wants to stay overnight at her
boyfriends. I immediately said no.***
Hi Kathleen! : )
If you know she's having sex then the "danger" she might have sex at an
overnight at his house is not the issue.
If you find him a nice enough guy then her safety isn't the issue.
If you're not afraid of what other people will say about you allowing her
to stay then embarrassment isn't the issue.
Maybe it makes you a little sad that she's growing up and feeling
independent? Maybe you'd like her to want to stay with you more than
she wants to be with him? If you're sort of just starting to feel a
closer, unschooly relationship maybe it feels like she's trying to move
away from you?
You can't stop her from staying with him. Well, I guess you could call
the cops. <g>
She can drive herself to his house and go right in and stay there and not
return your calls if she chooses. So you must know she *can* do it.
She asked you because she wants your support as she ventures further into
the world and she wouldn't have asked if she didn't trust you. Really,
is seems she asked to keep you close to her, emotionally, not to move
further away.
You know Dylan is only fourteen and this hasn't come up at our house but
I'd say yes as long as there was no danger from the other kids parents.
You know, no crazy father with a shotgun. <g> You don't think redneck
neighbors will burn his house down, do you?
Can you call her at work and tell her you're sorry and offer some money
so they can order a pizza or something? <g>
Deb, waving to you from Deer Lodge
boyfriends. I immediately said no.***
Hi Kathleen! : )
If you know she's having sex then the "danger" she might have sex at an
overnight at his house is not the issue.
If you find him a nice enough guy then her safety isn't the issue.
If you're not afraid of what other people will say about you allowing her
to stay then embarrassment isn't the issue.
Maybe it makes you a little sad that she's growing up and feeling
independent? Maybe you'd like her to want to stay with you more than
she wants to be with him? If you're sort of just starting to feel a
closer, unschooly relationship maybe it feels like she's trying to move
away from you?
You can't stop her from staying with him. Well, I guess you could call
the cops. <g>
She can drive herself to his house and go right in and stay there and not
return your calls if she chooses. So you must know she *can* do it.
She asked you because she wants your support as she ventures further into
the world and she wouldn't have asked if she didn't trust you. Really,
is seems she asked to keep you close to her, emotionally, not to move
further away.
You know Dylan is only fourteen and this hasn't come up at our house but
I'd say yes as long as there was no danger from the other kids parents.
You know, no crazy father with a shotgun. <g> You don't think redneck
neighbors will burn his house down, do you?
Can you call her at work and tell her you're sorry and offer some money
so they can order a pizza or something? <g>
Deb, waving to you from Deer Lodge
Tina Layne
>>I think it all boils down to how would *you* have liked to have beentreated?<<
This is a great bit of advice!! =)
My oldest turns 15 next month and hasn't shown a great interest in guys yet. My post is more about my own personal experiences and how I won't EVER make my kids feel the way I did when I was a teen. Although I am close with my mom and we get along NOW, it wasn't always like that, and I really think the past did irreparable damage to the relationship.
I was 18, had been dating my bf for 2 years, was in my senior year of school, was working 30 hours a week, and had saved up my own money to go out and visit then bf/now dh in CA where he was newly stationed after bootcamp (USMC). We made no secret to anyone that we planned to get married eventually.
I bought my own plane tickets- IN SECRET- because my mom would have tried to stop me even though I was legally an adult at this point and 3 months from graduating high school. I figured after buying them, she wouldn't stop me. So off I went to CA for a 10 day vacation with my mom's final words to me as I left "If you get pregnant, I won't pay for the kind of wedding you want to have. You can go to City Hall and elope, and you won't stay here through graduation, either." (Nevermind that I had gone to the dr with her knowledge a year previously and gotten on BC pills to be proactive and SMART.)
So my point... I tried to be open with my parents and I tried to have a mature relationship with them since I was young, and especially when I hit teenage years. I tried to prove to them that I was trustworthy and smart, but I still knew I needed to sneak about to do things I really wanted to that didn't meet with my mom's life plan for me- like buying plane tickets.
My dad was very open with me and while he wouldn't have chosen the paths I did, he didn't threaten me with ultimatums or call me a bad person. Me and my dad have a WONDERFUL relationship and always have. My mom on the other hand went through my stuff, tried to find secrets I was keeping, and threatened to take back things she'd offered me (like the wedding when it came time for that or my home and the ability to finish the last few months of school to graduation).
I did graduate- didn't get pregnant on my 10 day trip- and I got married at the end of that July when I was 18 and flew the coop clear across the US. I couldn't imagine dealing with being an adult, working, going to college, visiting with BF, and eventually planning a wedding, and knowing that "as long as I lived under her roof" I'd still have to obey all of her rules, all of her insane ideas of what a proper child, proper woman, and proper future wife should be (think June Cleaver).
Had she not been so oppressive in her "this is how a girl acts" and "I'm the mom and I know best" song and dance, I'd not have felt the need to run clear across the country so early. I'd have gotten a lot more college done and I'd have been a lot better financially when I did finally marry dh.
If our kids are willing to come to us and let us in on their lives, their "secrets" and inner thoughts, and ask for our feelings on things, it's such a disservice to the relationship to shut them out or shut them down with a quick "that's not smart" or "no". And god forbid we put them in a position of having to sneak or making them feel Less because their plans aren't what we would do.
Tina
Layne Family Blog:
http://threekeys.blogspot.com/
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
**And one of the moms said if we thought
kids could sleep in the same room without having sex, we were
deluding ourselves. **
I'm pretty level-headed, but I had my first kiss at a co-ed sleepover
with longtime friends when I was 15, and then the sexual activity
(between the two of us) escalated pretty fast and was hard for me to
control.
Betsy
kids could sleep in the same room without having sex, we were
deluding ourselves. **
I'm pretty level-headed, but I had my first kiss at a co-ed sleepover
with longtime friends when I was 15, and then the sexual activity
(between the two of us) escalated pretty fast and was hard for me to
control.
Betsy
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was 18, had been dating my bf for 2 years, was in my senior year
of school, was working 30 hours a week, and had saved up my own money
to go out and visit then bf/now dh in CA where he was newly stationed
after bootcamp (USMC). We made no secret to anyone that we planned to
get married eventually.-=-
It looks like, from your blog, that things worked out really well!
(Tina
Layne Family Blog:
http://threekeys.blogspot.com/ )
Good!
Sleeping in a house isn't having sex. Sleeping in the same bed isn't
even having sex (as parents with several children know better than
anyone else. <bwg>)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of school, was working 30 hours a week, and had saved up my own money
to go out and visit then bf/now dh in CA where he was newly stationed
after bootcamp (USMC). We made no secret to anyone that we planned to
get married eventually.-=-
It looks like, from your blog, that things worked out really well!
(Tina
Layne Family Blog:
http://threekeys.blogspot.com/ )
Good!
Sleeping in a house isn't having sex. Sleeping in the same bed isn't
even having sex (as parents with several children know better than
anyone else. <bwg>)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=**And one of the moms said if we thought
kids could sleep in the same room without having sex, we were
deluding ourselves. **
I'm pretty level-headed, but I had my first kiss at a co-ed sleepover
with longtime friends when I was 15, and then the sexual activity
(between the two of us) escalated pretty fast and was hard for me to
control.-=-
Were you in the same room with several other kids?
Many kids have their first kiss followed by escalating sexual
activity they find hard to control in a car, or in the woods, or
behind the barn, or somewhere that isn't a "co-ed sleepover."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kids could sleep in the same room without having sex, we were
deluding ourselves. **
I'm pretty level-headed, but I had my first kiss at a co-ed sleepover
with longtime friends when I was 15, and then the sexual activity
(between the two of us) escalated pretty fast and was hard for me to
control.-=-
Were you in the same room with several other kids?
Many kids have their first kiss followed by escalating sexual
activity they find hard to control in a car, or in the woods, or
behind the barn, or somewhere that isn't a "co-ed sleepover."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
If our kids are willing to come to us and let us in on their lives,
their "secrets" and inner thoughts, and ask for our feelings on things,
it's such a disservice to the relationship to shut them out or shut
them down with a quick "that's not smart" or "no". And god forbid we
put them in a position of having to sneak or making them feel Less
because their plans aren't what we would do.
-=-=-=
I spoke a little about this in Peabody last week. Parents encourage
creative, curious exploration...until the child turns into a
teen---then they put on some hard brakes. That just makes NO sense!
I'm sure many people (probably even some folks on *this* list! <G>)
think I take this too seriously and maybe too far.
I *NEVER* want my kids to be afraid of telling me *ANYTHING*. Cam & I
have a *very* open relationship regarding love, sex, drinking, drugs,
and rock & roll. I might not agree with all his choices, but he knows I
will be there if they don't work out the way he thought they would. I'm
here to help and work *with* him.
That's got to be really empowering! To know that someone is on your
side, no matter what.
My dad was pretty good, but even he had some hot buttons. I struggle
through mine---not always gracefully! But I try really hard to work
them out before I need them! <G>
Duncan's really going to luck out! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
If our kids are willing to come to us and let us in on their lives,
their "secrets" and inner thoughts, and ask for our feelings on things,
it's such a disservice to the relationship to shut them out or shut
them down with a quick "that's not smart" or "no". And god forbid we
put them in a position of having to sneak or making them feel Less
because their plans aren't what we would do.
-=-=-=
I spoke a little about this in Peabody last week. Parents encourage
creative, curious exploration...until the child turns into a
teen---then they put on some hard brakes. That just makes NO sense!
I'm sure many people (probably even some folks on *this* list! <G>)
think I take this too seriously and maybe too far.
I *NEVER* want my kids to be afraid of telling me *ANYTHING*. Cam & I
have a *very* open relationship regarding love, sex, drinking, drugs,
and rock & roll. I might not agree with all his choices, but he knows I
will be there if they don't work out the way he thought they would. I'm
here to help and work *with* him.
That's got to be really empowering! To know that someone is on your
side, no matter what.
My dad was pretty good, but even he had some hot buttons. I struggle
through mine---not always gracefully! But I try really hard to work
them out before I need them! <G>
Duncan's really going to luck out! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
liannemargaret
Yeah, but...
it was terrorists, who seem to like their dates,
they only intended to strike in Toronto,
and
the RCMP and local police busted them last week.
http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/06/toronto_terrorist_ring_smashed.php
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060603/arrests_reaction_060603/20060603?hub=Canada&s_name=
http://tailrank.com/posts/562949953632776/Toronto_Terrorist_Ring_Smashed__Possessed_3_Tons_of_Explosives
A lot of people stayed home, anyway, JIC
Lianne
--- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
<snip>
it was terrorists, who seem to like their dates,
they only intended to strike in Toronto,
and
the RCMP and local police busted them last week.
http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/06/toronto_terrorist_ring_smashed.php
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060603/arrests_reaction_060603/20060603?hub=Canada&s_name=
http://tailrank.com/posts/562949953632776/Toronto_Terrorist_Ring_Smashed__Possessed_3_Tons_of_Explosives
A lot of people stayed home, anyway, JIC
Lianne
--- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
<snip>
> And as to burning in hell, today is (in both European reckoning and
> north American) 6/6/6
> so if the devil's going to make a move, today's the day.
>
> Sandra
>