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Mary,
I love the words!! Got a good laugh this morning, thank you.

I also love reading all the nursing vocabulary your kids developed, so sweet.
My dd called it "nurries".....we still say nurries around here so babsy boy
will probably pick that one up too.

He's almost one now, I can't even imagine trying to wean him. He nurses about
3 or 4 times at night still. He would be so upset to stop now! I only get a
small window of time (in view of my entire life) to enjoy breastfeeding and
this incredible closeness with him. Our children begin to seek independence
fairly soon in life, why not slow down and just enjoy them really needing us?
YK?
No rush to wean here....the poor guy would fall apart! Besides, it's the
only time I actually have boobs and I ain't givin' that up any time soon!! LOL
Ren

Nancy Wooton

on 1/13/02 7:36 AM, starsuncloud@... at starsuncloud@... wrote:

> He's almost one now, I can't even imagine trying to wean him. He nurses about
> 3 or 4 times at night still. He would be so upset to stop now! I only get a
> small window of time (in view of my entire life) to enjoy breastfeeding and
> this incredible closeness with him. Our children begin to seek independence
> fairly soon in life, why not slow down and just enjoy them really needing us?

Am I the only one with children who decided to be independent by their first
birthday? *Both* my kids refused to nurse at that age; go figure. Once
they were walking, there was no slowing 'em down long enough to eat, much
less nurse.

Nancy

zenmomma *

>>Am I the only one with children who decided to be independent by their
>>first birthday?>>

My Casey also weaned herself at that age. I tried every trick I could think
of to keep her going a little longer. It wasn't gonna happen. :-/

~Mary

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Earth Witch

Some friends of ours are pregnant with their first
child. I wanted to pass along some good web sites to
them on pregnancy, natural parenting, etc. If anyone
has any suggestions I would very much appreciate it.

TIA.

Namaste,
Kitrina

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[email protected]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:40:00 -0800 Nancy Wooton <Felicitas@...>
writes:
> Am I the only one with children who decided to be independent by their
first
> birthday? *Both* my kids refused to nurse at that age; go figure.
Once
> they were walking, there was no slowing 'em down long enough to eat,
> much less nurse.

Well, since you brought it up... there is much anthrolopolical research
to suggest that a child this young who stops nursing has actually been
weaned, whether the mother realizes she's done it or not. Did you use
substitute nipples of any kind (pacifiers, bottles, etc.)? Were you
available to nurse, or did you put your child on a nursing schedule or
spend a good bit of time away from him/her? Did you often try to distract
a child who wanted to nurse? Did you night-wean your infant (>1 yr, some
say < 2 years)? Because our culture is so breastfeeding-unfirnedly, it's
easy to slip into weaning your child without meaning to.

I know lots and lots of people who intentionally did *not* do any of this
weaning-behaviors, and none of their children weaned before 2... the
average was 3 to 4. I've never read anthropological research about, say a
!Kung child who weans at a year - it would be suicide in that
environment, and that's the environment we all evolved in, and lived in
until the very recent past. Kathy Dettwyler has done some rearch on this,
it's available on the LLL site.

I also don't like the phrase "decided to be independent by their first
birthday", and maybe that attitude towards nursing is part of why your
child stopped nursing so young. Weaning has *nothing* to do with
"deciding to be independent" - my daughter was still nursing when she
performed with a dance group at 3 1/2, plus by that age she was regularly
walking across to the hall and going to play with the kids over there,
and outside... she was swimming by herself, reading simple stories to
herself, etc., etc.... doing lots of things independently. Again, it's
our culture that has decided that nursing is a sign of dependency, unless
you also want to consider being hugged or read to a sign of dependency...

Dar
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On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 17:18:11 -0700 freeform@... writes:
>
>anthrolopolical

Sheesh. anthropol*og*ical.

Dar
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Nancy Wooton

on 1/13/02 4:18 PM, freeform@... at freeform@... wrote:

> I also don't like the phrase "decided to be independent by their first
> birthday", and maybe that attitude towards nursing is part of why your
> child stopped nursing so young.

I'm sure it is.

Nancy

Peggy

Independence takes me forms but a child who quits nursing at one still
needs some form of milk. One of the greatest comforts to me as a mother
was being able to nurse my toddler while sick, even if she couldn't
swallow solid food knowing that she was getting just what she needed to
feel better soon.

Just recently saw the Japanese film _Tampopo_ by Juzo Itami again after
many years. One of the scenes shows a woman nursing her baby. She calmly
unbuttons her shirt, from the top, and sits on a park bench and feeds
her child. Totally unselfconscious.

Or there is the old joke about the American doctor who accidentally
walked into a room in a hospital in the Middle East where a bunch of
women were nursing their babies. Embarrassed, they all covered their
*faces*, not their breasts.

Peggy




freeform@... wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:40:00 -0800 Nancy Wooton <Felicitas@...>
> writes:
> > Am I the only one with children who decided to be independent by their
> first
> > birthday? *Both* my kids refused to nurse at that age; go figure.
> Once
> > they were walking, there was no slowing 'em down long enough to eat,
> > much less nurse.
>
> Well, since you brought it up... there is much anthrolopolical research
> to suggest that a child this young who stops nursing has actually been
> weaned, whether the mother realizes she's done it or not. Did you use
> substitute nipples of any kind (pacifiers, bottles, etc.)? Were you
> available to nurse, or did you put your child on a nursing schedule or
> spend a good bit of time away from him/her? Did you often try to distract
> a child who wanted to nurse? Did you night-wean your infant (>1 yr, some
> say < 2 years)? Because our culture is so breastfeeding-unfirnedly, it's
> easy to slip into weaning your child without meaning to.
>
> I know lots and lots of people who intentionally did *not* do any of this
> weaning-behaviors, and none of their children weaned before 2... the
> average was 3 to 4. I've never read anthropological research about, say a
> !Kung child who weans at a year - it would be suicide in that
> environment, and that's the environment we all evolved in, and lived in
> until the very recent past. Kathy Dettwyler has done some rearch on this,
> it's available on the LLL site.
>
> I also don't like the phrase "decided to be independent by their first
> birthday", and maybe that attitude towards nursing is part of why your
> child stopped nursing so young. Weaning has *nothing* to do with
> "deciding to be independent" - my daughter was still nursing when she
> performed with a dance group at 3 1/2, plus by that age she was regularly
> walking across to the hall and going to play with the kids over there,
> and outside... she was swimming by herself, reading simple stories to
> herself, etc., etc.... doing lots of things independently. Again, it's
> our culture that has decided that nursing is a sign of dependency, unless
> you also want to consider being hugged or read to a sign of dependency...
>
> Dar
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Diane

Make sure to include http://www.lalecheleague.org

:-) Diane

Earth Witch wrote:

> Some friends of ours are pregnant with their first
> child. I wanted to pass along some good web sites to
> them on pregnancy, natural parenting, etc. If anyone
> has any suggestions I would very much appreciate it.
>
> TIA.
>
> Namaste,
> Kitrina

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/13/02 6:17:23 PM, peggy@... writes:

<< Or there is the old joke about the American doctor who accidentally
walked into a room in a hospital in the Middle East where a bunch of
women were nursing their babies. Embarrassed, they all covered their
*faces*, not their breasts. >>

Hey,
Long ago I was visiting a boyfriend (Keith the future husband) who was having
a big party. I had come from work 90 miles away, and went in the bedroom to
change. Someone I'd never seen before came in to use the 2nd bathroom, while
I was stark naked.

I quickly held some article of clothing up against my face while he said
"Sorry" and shut the door.

He didn't know who he had seen, and I didn't get a good look at who'd seen
me. It was better than covering up one or the other halves of me and having
to look at him looking at me...

Sandra

Peggy

Is that a biological response? ;)

Peggy


SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/13/02 6:17:23 PM, peggy@... writes:
>
> << Or there is the old joke about the American doctor who accidentally
> walked into a room in a hospital in the Middle East where a bunch of
> women were nursing their babies. Embarrassed, they all covered their
> *faces*, not their breasts. >>
>
> Hey,
> Long ago I was visiting a boyfriend (Keith the future husband) who was having
> a big party. I had come from work 90 miles away, and went in the bedroom to
> change. Someone I'd never seen before came in to use the 2nd bathroom, while
> I was stark naked.
>
> I quickly held some article of clothing up against my face while he said
> "Sorry" and shut the door.
>
> He didn't know who he had seen, and I didn't get a good look at who'd seen
> me. It was better than covering up one or the other halves of me and having
> to look at him looking at me...
>
> Sandra
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

meghan anderson

<<<<Some friends of ours are pregnant with their first
child. I wanted to pass along some good web sites to
them on pregnancy, natural parenting, etc. If anyone
has any suggestions I would very much appreciate it.

TIA.

Namaste,
Kitrina>>>>

A great website is www.awareparenting.com
It's Aletha Solter's website (She's the author of The
Aware Baby - great book).
Also, recommend to them the book The Continuum Concept
by Jean Liedloff. This is the one book, that I know
of, that has changed (or confirmed) people's views of
attachment parenting.

Meghan



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Fetteroll

on 1/13/02 7:18 PM, freeform@... at freeform@... wrote:

> Well, since you brought it up... there is much anthrolopolical research
> to suggest that a child this young who stops nursing has actually been
> weaned, whether the mother realizes she's done it or not. Did you use
> substitute nipples of any kind ...

I can say no to all those and my daughter weaned herself at maybe 14 months.
She liked using glasses and sippy cups so I never bothered with bottles. She
gave up naps at the same time.

Hmm ... now that I'm thinking of it, breastfeeding was for hunger followed
by a nap. When she was hungry at other than nap time (she fell into a
natural schedule that she readjusted herself as she needed fewer and fewer
naps) she ate food which she enjoyed so I didn't get any feedback that she
was being deprived. If she was hurt I hugged her just because it wouldn't
have occured to me to make a connection between pain and food. If I need a
culture to make that connection for me, then is the connection strongly
biological? In a culture where infants are nursed when they cry regardless
of the cause, is it done because that's natural or because there is social
pressure to do so to quiet the infant because so many people are living so
close together? Or is it both? I suspect that children are adaptable and can
find comfort in a number of ways so ultimately the decision of what way is
best is whatever fits best with the society.

Perhaps there were clues from my daughter that I was missing but if the
clues were that subtle, then how biologically necessary were they? I'd
really hate to have women feel guilty if their child weans early. I think
it's much more nurturing to help women ignore the cultural pressures that
encourage them to wean early rather than to shame them into nursing as long
as possible because some have decided it isn't natural to wean early and to
even set a specific year before which they claim it would be unnatural to
stop nursing.

> I've never read anthropological research about, say a
> !Kung child who weans at a year - it would be suicide in that
> environment, and that's the environment we all evolved in, and lived in
> until the very recent past.

Some people. The Polynesians, for instance, grew up in a land of plenty. (I
wonder at what age their children weaned before western influence?) I'd say
nursing and weaning -- as with most of human biology -- is adaptable to the
environment so children can get what they need in the best way. Our
adaptability is what has allowed us to be so successful in exploiting a wide
variety of environments.

I went looking for some report about the Polynesians and weaning but came
across a report of how certain tribes find mothers and fathers sexually
stimulating infants to be perfectly normal and calming for them, where there
was a strong connection between nursing and sexual stimulation.
(http://www.hugcares.org/ph/childhod/chch62dm.htm -- the reseach appears to
have all done by men and seems chock full of bias but that doesn't negate
the practices they observed regardless of what conclusions they drew from
them.) Most cultures as so full of taboos and the baggage of cultural
practices that made sense for a situation that no longer exists that it's
very hard to determine what is natural and what is unnatural from what
people do and have done in the past. I think the best we can do is to become
more aware of why we are choosing to do certain things so we can throw off
our own cultural baggage rather than taking on the baggage of others because
we assume they're more natural.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Janet

>>Both my kids weaned themselves at about one year; I can't imagine what
it's
like to have a child who has *words* for it... "Mummy dear, I'd like a bit
of titty now."

I'd die of embarassment! :-)<<

My son is 3 and mostly just nurses at bedtime, and naptime (if he's having
one) or when he needs comfort. If we're out in public I usually will
distract him until we're back at home. Fortunately, he calls nursing huh
huhns, so nobody knows what he wants when he shrieks at me in a store, "MOM,
I WANT YOUR HUH HUHNS!!"

Not too embarrassing :)

Janet, mom to Caroline, 7, and Thomas, 3

Sharon Rudd

> No rush to wean here....the poor guy would fall
> apart! Besides, it's the
> only time I actually have boobs and I ain't givin'
> that up any time soon!! LOL

That "empty sack" post weaning look is only temporary,
don't worry. Each of my boys even had a favorit side
as they got a little bigger.......and that even evened
out after a while.

SOS


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