Nanci Kuykendall

>Some people do have the tone of surprise when
>they way "Wow! You're really nice!" and the
>underlying message is "nicer than I thought you'd be"
>or "nicer than I'd heard you were."
>Sandra

Sandra you forgot "nicer than I am used to being
treated" or "nicer than I am used to people being."

Sometimes people have a lot of legitimate reasons for
expecting the "worst" and don't have a lot of reasons
for expecting the best. I used to be that way, when I
was a kid. It takes a conscious effort to retrain the
mind and heart to look at the world a different way,
to unlearn harsh lessons, and a stubborn, pig-headed
determination NOT to be a pessimist.

Nanci K.

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In a message dated 1/12/02 2:23:28 PM, aisliin@... writes:

<< >Some people do have the tone of surprise when
>they way "Wow! You're really nice!" and the
>underlying message is "nicer than I thought you'd be"
>or "nicer than I'd heard you were."
>Sandra

Sandra you forgot "nicer than I am used to being
treated" or "nicer than I am used to people being." >>

Well that comes under "nicer than I thought you'd be," but you're right--the
surprise might have to do with the speaker's life, not the spoken-to.

So...
Then would "this is educational" mean "more educational than most things in
my life"? Because if so, that's even more reason to stop using
"educational"!

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>So...Then would "this is educational" mean "more educational than most
>>things in my life"? Because if so, that's even more reason to stop using
>>"educational"!>>

I think that when people use the term "educational" (whehter they mean to or
not), they're equating it with schoolish. Educational means "the kind of
stuff we did or learned or heard about in school". Therefore, lots of people
wouldn't have it in their daily lives. At least if they're lucky. Hopefully
most of us moved beyond schoolish to real learning. It's just that when the
kids come along it's back to the traditional "educational" mode. I agree it
has no real use in unschooling/life. It all counts. It can all teach us
something.

~Mary




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Nanci Kuykendall

>>Sandra you forgot "nicer than I am used to being
>>treated" or "nicer than I am used to people being."
>>

>Well that comes under "nicer than I thought you'd
>be," but you're right--the surprise might have to do
>with the speaker's life, not the spoken-to.
>So...
>Then would "this is educational" mean "more
>educational than most things in my life"? Because if
>so, that's even more reason to stop using
>"educational"!
>Sandra

Well acutally I agree with you regarding the use (or
uselessness, as the case may be) of the term
"educational." As far as what others may have in mind
when using the word, I would think the meaning is more
like "I leanred something!" Usually when someone says
a thing is "educational" from their personal
experience, they are really trying to share that they
learned something. Having only learned an
understanding of the learning process in terms of
educational material presented in the appropriate
mediums and ways, they attribute the miracle of
learning to the presentation of the material, rather
than by anything the learner did (consciously or
unconsciously) to absord the material.

So I suppose, along those lines, when someone is
referring to something as being "educational" in a
future sense (as in "Wow, that book looks like it
would be educational" or "We're getting that science
kit, the one that seems like it would be really
educational") they would be referring to the fact that
they anticipate these tools to facilitate learning to
happen. Whether this is based on personal experience
of how their children, or they themselves learn, with
what tools and what circumstances are most condusive
to their particular learning style, OR whether the
belief that a thing is educational is based on in the
box, conditioned thinking about what "causes" learning
to happen, is another matter.

Nanci K.

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In a message dated 1/12/02 6:14:10 PM, aisliin@... writes:

<< Whether this is based on personal experience
of how their children, or they themselves learn, with
what tools and what circumstances are most condusive
to their particular learning style, OR whether the
belief that a thing is educational is based on in the
box, conditioned thinking about what "causes" learning
to happen, is another matter. >>

But wasn't the original argument about advising people to take "educational"
out of their vocabulary and considerations? (I'm getting hazy on what the
original argument was! But if it WAS that...)

Sandra

Nanci Kuykendall

>I think that when people use the term "educational"
>(whehter they mean to or not), they're equating it
>with schoolish. Educational means "the kind
>of stuff we did or learned or heard about in school".
>Therefore, lots of people wouldn't have it in their
>daily lives. ~Mary

This is true Mary. Some folks may indeed be using
this mindset when they use the word "educational." I
can see that.

Nanci K.



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Nanci Kuykendall

<< Whether this is based on personal experience
>>of how their children, or they themselves learn,
with
>>what tools and what circumstances are most condusive
>>to their particular learning style, OR whether the
>>belief that a thing is educational is based on in
the
>>box, conditioned thinking about what "causes"
>>learning to happen, is another matter. >>

>But wasn't the original argument about advising
>people to take "educational" out of their vocabulary
>and considerations?
>Sandra

Yes, and I agree. I was just speculating about
reasons and justifications that people have for using
the word "educational" not defending it's use. Sorry
if I was not clear, I have been REALLY tired this week
and kind of foggy headed.

Nanci K.

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