Dawn Falbe

Hi All:

So here's my 10 cents worth.... Before I had children I thought I would
breastfeed anywhere and everywhere and that it would be other people's
problem if they didn't like it. They didn't have to look.... When I had Max
(my youngest)... I was breastfeeding him in my living room and my parents
came over (my mother and step-father)... All of a sudden I was really
uncomfortable breast feeding in front of this man, even though I've known
him 20 years and he wasn't staring. I had to take myself off into the
bedroom because I love of this as a bonding moment with my son that I did
not want to share with my family watching. It was the strangest feeling....
I nursed in public very rarely.... usually nursing before we went out or
when we came back... I just found I was uncomfortable.

Now here's the other side of the story.... Breasts are for feeding
infants.... that's their primary purpose... It is man that has sexualized
them into being something to look at and droll over... maybe men never get
over that mother attachment and look longingly at women to fulfil something
they are missing or never had...In countries such as New Zealand and
Austrailia the average amount of time for breastfeeding is the first 3 years
of life and you have to buy bottles from a Pharmacy as it's unusual to not
breastfeed. I wonder how people look there.

I have also found, having grown up in England, now living in America that
the Americans are a lot more uptight when it comes to sexual things and also
to this breast feeding thing. So I think it must be a cultural thing.

So what do I believe.... every woman needs to do what she is most
comfortable with regardless of whether other people are comfortable or
not.with her decisions. I believe it's very co-dependent to worry and do
things differently because other people will be unhappy. We take away their
power when we don't let them say "I'm really uncomfortable with you
breastfeeding in front of me because I feel (a) guilty because I didn't do
it (b) ashamed because we sexualize our bodies in this country (b)
uncomfortable seeing your breasts as it arouses me (from a man's point of
view that is) and any other number of guilt feelings that others have. Let
them have the opportunity to have their uncomfortable feelings if you want
to breast feed in public... Let then deal with their emotions....

Sorry this is rambling but I love this topic and have thought long and hard
about it.

Dawn


********************
Dawn Falbe
Astrologer Coach
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********************
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dawn@...
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George Bernard Shaw



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:57:27 -0700 "Dawn Falbe" <dawn@...>
writes:
> So what do I believe.... every woman needs to do what she is most
> comfortable with regardless of whether other people are comfortable or
> not.with her decisions. I believe it's very co-dependent to worry and
do
> things differently because other people will be unhappy. We take away
their
> power when we don't let them say "I'm really uncomfortable with you
> breastfeeding in front of me because I feel (a) guilty because I
didn't do
> it (b) ashamed because we sexualize our bodies in this country (b)
> uncomfortable seeing your breasts as it arouses me (from a man's point
of
> view that is) and any other number of guilt feelings that others have.
Let
> them have the opportunity to have their uncomfortable feelings if
> you want to breast feed in public... Let then deal with their
emotions....

I like this. I think that's a big part of it for me. I don't tell my
sister she can't wear her many facial studs just because it makes me feel
squeamish to look at them - it's her body, and her choice. She's not
doing it just to bug me - I think that's a different situation - and it's
not her job to make me feel comfortable, it's my job. Again, if someone
really thought women at a LLL conference would be out trying to make
people uncomfortable, that would be different, but I don't see that as
the issue.

What if some of the guests at this hotel are uncomfortable seeing Black
people? What if a hotel guest is Muslim and prefers that women cover?
Where do you draw the line?

I nursed my very large 3 yr old at the state prison in Safford, and I'm
pretty sure that no one noticed. I would have been pissed if someone had
told me to "be discreet", though. It would be like having a homeschooling
conference and reminding the participants that since they would be in a
large group, they might have to wait in lines for things like restrooms
and drinking fountains, and they should raise their hands if they have a
question instead of just shouting it out. Yeah, a few homeschoolers may
need those reminders, but it's pretty insulting to the group as a whole.


Me:<<There was a time when women were told to "discreetly" cover their
ankles
and wrists at all times, too...>>

Sandra:"So do you think we're building up to nekkid twats?
Is it just the slippery slope?

(If not, I don't see real the connection between ankles and boobs.)"

They're both body parts that only women are, or were, required to cover,
and covering these parts is sometimes an impediment to normal live
activities. Twats don't qualify.

Dar
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. Twats don't qualify.

Twat? T'is isn't tit?

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Dan Vilter

> We take away their power when we don't let them say "I'm really uncomfortable
> with you breastfeeding in front of me because I feel (a) guilty because I
> didn't do it (b) ashamed because we sexualize our bodies in this country (b)
> uncomfortable seeing your breasts as it arouses me (from a man's point of view
> that is) and any other number of guilt feelings that others have.

What power? From who? If it's my power, you can have it.


Maybe...
(a) I feel guilty because I couldn't breast feed my child-for what ever
reason.
(b) I'm confused about why bodies are sexualized in our society.
(c ) I'm embarrassed at seeing your breasts because I feel that they are
part of your private being and not the public being I just unwittingly
stumbled over. [I have yet to feel aroused seeing a mother breastfeed her
child. Maybe other men have.]



I get an inner glow when I see a mother nursing because I know for myself
that it is such a good and healthy thing for child and mother. I want to
applaud it and encourage it in anyway I can. From my perspective you should
do whatever you feel you need to make this happen. Certainly be comfortable
doing it. But please be aware that needlessly exposing your breasts is
going to embarrass me and many of my gender. And it does make it more
difficult for me to promote the breast feeding of our children to my fellow
men.

-Dan Vilter

meghan anderson

<<<<I have also found, having grown up in England, now
living in America
that
the Americans are a lot more uptight when it comes to
sexual things and also
to this breast feeding thing. So I think it must be a
cultural thing.

Dawn>>>>

Oh, so you've noticed it too! <g>
I never realised how uptight this culture is regarding
any form of sensuality/sexuality until I moved back
here last year (after being away for 12 years). I
think California is a little more relaxed than some
places though.
I breastfed Tamzin until she was 2 and a half (she
weaned herself then). We fed in public on many
occasions without so much as a glance in most
circumstances. I was as discreet as I could be though,
for my own sake as much as anyone elses (I'm no
exhibitionist <g>).

Meghan

Meghan


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In a message dated 1/14/02 6:30:42 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< I went looking for some report about the Polynesians and weaning but came
across a report of how certain tribes find mothers and fathers sexually
stimulating infants to be perfectly normal and calming for them, where there
was a strong connection between nursing and sexual stimulation.
(http://www.hugcares.org/ph/childhod/chch62dm.htm -- the reseach appears to
have all done by men and seems chock full of bias but that doesn't negate
the practices they observed regardless of what conclusions they drew from
them.) >>

From http://webpages.charter.net/jspeyrer/war2.htm

German children were also used by parents and servants as sexual objects from
an early age.367 German doctors often said "nursemaids and other servants
carry out all sorts of sexual acts on the children entrusted to their care,
sometimes merely in order to quiet the children, sometimes 'for fun.'"368
Even Freud said he was seduced by his nurse and by his father,369 and said
"nursemaids, governesses and domestic servants [were often] guilty of [grave
sexual] abuses" and that "nurses put crying children to sleep by stroking
their genitals."370

So. Germany 100 years ago, not just Polynesia.

This is getting too gross for me so I'm going to stop reporting it, but the
reminder that what we're doing isn't just one minor step away from American
business-as-usual and school, but it's a full flight from a century ago,
might help.

Sandra