confused about punishment
lilith_pouia
I've been part of this group for a while, and haven't actually asked
for the support i need and needed when i joined. So i thought i'd
post, and ask for some advice on one of the many topics i probably
need advice about. My sons are seven and four, and i
homeschool/unschool them. Our normal methods of punishment include
grounding and time outs, and when the kids don't respond to those
spanking. I've been reading the articles about not spanking on the
Sanda Dodd website, and i really dislike the idea and act of spanking
my sons, but i don't understand how to respond when grounding and time
outs don't work. I assume it would have been easier on me and them if
i had practiced different approaches to parenting earlier, but what
can i do now to help change their habits of misbehavior and my habits
of how i respond to it? It seems like trying to be more compassionate
and respectful toward them is just something they use to take
advantage of me. Any advice will be open mindedly considered and
appreciated.
Thanks,
Lilith
for the support i need and needed when i joined. So i thought i'd
post, and ask for some advice on one of the many topics i probably
need advice about. My sons are seven and four, and i
homeschool/unschool them. Our normal methods of punishment include
grounding and time outs, and when the kids don't respond to those
spanking. I've been reading the articles about not spanking on the
Sanda Dodd website, and i really dislike the idea and act of spanking
my sons, but i don't understand how to respond when grounding and time
outs don't work. I assume it would have been easier on me and them if
i had practiced different approaches to parenting earlier, but what
can i do now to help change their habits of misbehavior and my habits
of how i respond to it? It seems like trying to be more compassionate
and respectful toward them is just something they use to take
advantage of me. Any advice will be open mindedly considered and
appreciated.
Thanks,
Lilith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 8, 2006, at 11:03 PM, lilith_pouia wrote:
into what we think it best for them to be. The problem is that it
assumes kids are naturally bad, that they don't want to be kind and
helpful.
how you interact with them.
Assume that kids are doing the best they can with the skills they
have. Be their partner rather than their molder and shaper.
It will probably be rough. Ask lots of question here! If you've been
controlling them, they're going to test what were previously limits.
(I wouldn't suggest eliminating all rules. If you've used "I do this
because I care," as an method to get them to do what you want, it's
going to seem like you don't care if you let go of rules all of a
sudden.) Your goal isn't to obey rules but to make choices based on
principles. But it will be difficult getting. Though not any more
difficult than what you're doing now. And with better results!
perspective and new ideas.
It won't be easy. It will help lots to not see it as them taking
advantage of you but healing from the control. Controlled people
often don't respect those controlling them. It's a form of self
protection. And it will take a while before they trust that you're on
their side, there to help them get what they want rather than being
their adversary in getting them to do what you want.
Think about it this way: If your husband had the power to make you do
things you didn't believe were best for you, would you respect him
and his ideas? In a situation like that the options are: pretending
and then sneaking behind his back to do what you think is right,
fighting against his control of you, or giving up and accepting that
you don't know anything and should just go along with whatever he
tells you to. Is that what you want?
Another thing is that if you've relaxed rules and then given up and
put them back, it encourages them to believe that any relaxation of
rules is only temporary and they need to take advantage of the
freedom while they have it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> but i don't understand how to respond when grounding and timeConventional parenting is about controlling kids and shaping them
> outs don't work.
into what we think it best for them to be. The problem is that it
assumes kids are naturally bad, that they don't want to be kind and
helpful.
> I assume it would have been easier on me and them ifFirst change you. Change how you see them and their behavior. Change
> i had practiced different approaches to parenting earlier, but what
> can i do now to help change their habits of misbehavior and my habits
> of how i respond to it?
how you interact with them.
Assume that kids are doing the best they can with the skills they
have. Be their partner rather than their molder and shaper.
It will probably be rough. Ask lots of question here! If you've been
controlling them, they're going to test what were previously limits.
(I wouldn't suggest eliminating all rules. If you've used "I do this
because I care," as an method to get them to do what you want, it's
going to seem like you don't care if you let go of rules all of a
sudden.) Your goal isn't to obey rules but to make choices based on
principles. But it will be difficult getting. Though not any more
difficult than what you're doing now. And with better results!
> It seems like trying to be more compassionateIf you can give us some examples people can give you a different
> and respectful toward them is just something they use to take
> advantage of me.
perspective and new ideas.
It won't be easy. It will help lots to not see it as them taking
advantage of you but healing from the control. Controlled people
often don't respect those controlling them. It's a form of self
protection. And it will take a while before they trust that you're on
their side, there to help them get what they want rather than being
their adversary in getting them to do what you want.
Think about it this way: If your husband had the power to make you do
things you didn't believe were best for you, would you respect him
and his ideas? In a situation like that the options are: pretending
and then sneaking behind his back to do what you think is right,
fighting against his control of you, or giving up and accepting that
you don't know anything and should just go along with whatever he
tells you to. Is that what you want?
Another thing is that if you've relaxed rules and then given up and
put them back, it encourages them to believe that any relaxation of
rules is only temporary and they need to take advantage of the
freedom while they have it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
All of Joyce's post is great.
If you give us some specific examples, as she suggested, we can help
more.
There's a list you can join for ideas. Pam Sorooshian owns it. It's
to discuss ways to live without spanking. Pam was never spanked as a
child, so it's not a recovery action for her, it's just to help
others get ideas and understand. If you join you could read the
archives and any files they have there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NoMoreSpanking/
The intro says:
The purpose of the NoMoreSpanking list is support for parents who
wish to discover and utilize alternatives to spanking their children.
This list is not for debating, but is for providing help,
information, ideas, and encouragement for those who prefer not to use
corporal punishment on their children.
The point of view of this list is that punishment may control a
specific behavior but that it interferes with the long-term goal of
promoting self-control and that alternative nonpunitive ways of
relating to children are preferred. Punishment includes hitting,
spanking, swatting, shaming, ridiculing, threatening, using harsh or
cruel words, penalizing, holding back rewards, or other methods that
assert adult power or vent adult frustration. We are seeking
alternative approaches that provide guidance to our children that
will encourage self-control, thinking before acting, learning to take
responsibility for their own behavior, and especially that will
promote a lifelong warm, close, and open relationship between parent
and child.
Questions and suggestions and support are welcome from parents, no
matter what their parenting philosophies or practices, but this is
not the place for argumentative posts, particularly those that
justify spanking.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you give us some specific examples, as she suggested, we can help
more.
There's a list you can join for ideas. Pam Sorooshian owns it. It's
to discuss ways to live without spanking. Pam was never spanked as a
child, so it's not a recovery action for her, it's just to help
others get ideas and understand. If you join you could read the
archives and any files they have there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NoMoreSpanking/
The intro says:
The purpose of the NoMoreSpanking list is support for parents who
wish to discover and utilize alternatives to spanking their children.
This list is not for debating, but is for providing help,
information, ideas, and encouragement for those who prefer not to use
corporal punishment on their children.
The point of view of this list is that punishment may control a
specific behavior but that it interferes with the long-term goal of
promoting self-control and that alternative nonpunitive ways of
relating to children are preferred. Punishment includes hitting,
spanking, swatting, shaming, ridiculing, threatening, using harsh or
cruel words, penalizing, holding back rewards, or other methods that
assert adult power or vent adult frustration. We are seeking
alternative approaches that provide guidance to our children that
will encourage self-control, thinking before acting, learning to take
responsibility for their own behavior, and especially that will
promote a lifelong warm, close, and open relationship between parent
and child.
Questions and suggestions and support are welcome from parents, no
matter what their parenting philosophies or practices, but this is
not the place for argumentative posts, particularly those that
justify spanking.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
lilith_pouia wrote:
Alfie Kohn's book _Unconditional Parenting_ a useful tool to help shift
your thinking about reward/ punishment based parenting. Seven and four
are still really young--it's never too late to shift to respectful,
gentle parenting practices. In addition to the "no more spanking" list
and this list, you may find the AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list, which is
geared towards radical unschooling of young children, helpful in your
journey as well.
Regardless of which list, however, posting about specific problems, as
Sandra mentioned, helps people brainstorm with you for alternative
solutions in that kind of moment. Specifics are often more helpful than
generalities.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
> My sons are seven and four, and iJoyce and Sandra already gave you great information. You might also find
> homeschool/unschool them. Our normal methods of punishment include
> grounding and time outs, and when the kids don't respond to those
> spanking.
Alfie Kohn's book _Unconditional Parenting_ a useful tool to help shift
your thinking about reward/ punishment based parenting. Seven and four
are still really young--it's never too late to shift to respectful,
gentle parenting practices. In addition to the "no more spanking" list
and this list, you may find the AlwaysUnschooled yahoo list, which is
geared towards radical unschooling of young children, helpful in your
journey as well.
Regardless of which list, however, posting about specific problems, as
Sandra mentioned, helps people brainstorm with you for alternative
solutions in that kind of moment. Specifics are often more helpful than
generalities.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
Sandra Dodd
On Apr 9, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
when it is too late.
Sandra
> Seven and fourI think seven and four is not too late, but that there is a point
> are still really young--it's never too late to shift to respectful,
> gentle parenting practices.
when it is too late.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:03 PM, lilith_pouia wrote:
punishment is part of it?
What rules are they breaking or what sins are they committing?
If you find ways to see yourself as their lovely assistant, whose job
it is to help them get what they want, it will be harder to find them
"breaking rules."
If they're not getting along with each other, first you should be
right with them more often and not leave them alone, but you might
consider some of the ideas here, too:
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
If they're not going to bed on time or finishing all their food or
they're watching too much TV...
If you stop having rules about things like that, they can't break the
rules.
Sandra
> Our normal methods of punishmentThe main question is why is your life set up in such a way that
punishment is part of it?
What rules are they breaking or what sins are they committing?
If you find ways to see yourself as their lovely assistant, whose job
it is to help them get what they want, it will be harder to find them
"breaking rules."
If they're not getting along with each other, first you should be
right with them more often and not leave them alone, but you might
consider some of the ideas here, too:
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
If they're not going to bed on time or finishing all their food or
they're watching too much TV...
If you stop having rules about things like that, they can't break the
rules.
Sandra
Barbara Chase
>It seems like trying to be more compassionate and respectfulWhen I have thoughts like this I recognize that I've dropped into the
>toward them is just something they use to take advantage of me.
paradigm that I call the tyrant/victim mode, which calls for either
complete control or giving up and self pity. I am trying to shift away
from this mode, first for mySelf and as a result for my family and friends
who I am in relationship with.
Some of the things that come up for me when I'm inclined to shift into that
mode are that my needs don't matter or that I won't be able (or allowed) to
express my needs in a way that is understood. Both of these are thoughts
that I can change, and when I change them I am doing so as a way of being
more compassionate and respectful toward *mySelf*.
It's the thoughts themselves that perpetuate how I'm feeling. No, I don't
want someone to take advantage of me... but how can someone else really do
this (not including physically threatening situations)? It can only happen
if I let it, and generally that happens w/ my thoughts. So I choose to
have different thoughts about it... that's one of the first steps.
As others have suggested, if we have some examples then we can give you
some more specific advice - and some ideas about new thoughts.
Mahalo,
Barbara
[email protected]
Elizabeth Crary has some great books to read with kids regarding problem solving and situations with other children. In each book there is a situation( a boy doesn't know how to deal with his noisy sister) some given ways to deal with the problem(leave the room,distract her, get help) and then outcomes. The books are great as they give kids options and ideas. Great place to start discussions on how we treat each other, how to solve problems and how we can choose how we view situations.
Barb
Barb
----- Original Message -----
From: Barbara Chase
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] confused about punishment
>It seems like trying to be more compassionate and respectful
>toward them is just something they use to take advantage of me.
When I have thoughts like this I recognize that I've dropped into the
paradigm that I call the tyrant/victim mode, which calls for either
complete control or giving up and self pity. I am trying to shift away
from this mode, first for mySelf and as a result for my family and friends
who I am in relationship with.
Some of the things that come up for me when I'm inclined to shift into that
mode are that my needs don't matter or that I won't be able (or allowed) to
express my needs in a way that is understood. Both of these are thoughts
that I can change, and when I change them I am doing so as a way of being
more compassionate and respectful toward *mySelf*.
It's the thoughts themselves that perpetuate how I'm feeling. No, I don't
want someone to take advantage of me... but how can someone else really do
this (not including physically threatening situations)? It can only happen
if I let it, and generally that happens w/ my thoughts. So I choose to
have different thoughts about it... that's one of the first steps.
As others have suggested, if we have some examples then we can give you
some more specific advice - and some ideas about new thoughts.
Mahalo,
Barbara
SPONSORED LINKS Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt
Parenting magazine Single parenting
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Rod Thomas
When?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 11:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] confused about punishment
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 11:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] confused about punishment
On Apr 9, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
> Seven and four
> are still really young--it's never too late to shift to respectful,
> gentle parenting practices.
I think seven and four is not too late, but that there is a point
when it is too late.
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
> I think seven and four is not too late, but that there is a point-=-When?-=-
> when it is too late.
When the child has over a dozen years of pent-up resentment and is
closer to being out of the family than in.
Sandra
Bling Williams
Barbara Chase <bc@...> wrote: >It seems like trying to be more compassionate and respectful
paradigm that I call the tyrant/victim mode, which calls for either
complete control or giving up and self pity. I am trying to shift away
from this mode, first for mySelf and as a result for my family and friends
who I am in relationship with.
Some of the things that come up for me when I'm inclined to shift into that
mode are that my needs don't matter or that I won't be able (or allowed) to
express my needs in a way that is understood. Both of these are thoughts
that I can change, and when I change them I am doing so as a way of being
more compassionate and respectful toward *mySelf*.
It's the thoughts themselves that perpetuate how I'm feeling. No, I don't
want someone to take advantage of me... but how can someone else really do
this (not including physically threatening situations)? It can only happen
if I let it, and generally that happens w/ my thoughts. So I choose to
have different thoughts about it... that's one of the first steps.
As others have suggested, if we have some examples then we can give you
some more specific advice - and some ideas about new thoughts.
Mahalo,
Barbara
Been lurking and this thread caught my attention because I have a 2 yo that is a handful. Now, she's never been punsihed, or even had stern words (Idon't believe in stuff like that) but her tantrums are becoming a real problem. She wont sit in a chair to be fed but she's now becoming too heavy to feed on a lap, she hates going in the car seat and screams the entire journey, she screams in shops cos she hates shops, she screams in her wheelchair cos she hates that and wants to be carried.
I just don't know how to get through to her. She's blind and brain damaged and can't move a muscle (apart from her mouth!) but she's smart (or so I'm told) so she should be cappable of learning that being a tyrant is not a way to live and its stressing us all out. We are traped at home because of her behaviour.
Any ideas?
s
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fedthose who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending its money aloneit is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." Dwight Eisenhower, Speech (1953)
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>toward them is just something they use to take advantage of me.When I have thoughts like this I recognize that I've dropped into the
paradigm that I call the tyrant/victim mode, which calls for either
complete control or giving up and self pity. I am trying to shift away
from this mode, first for mySelf and as a result for my family and friends
who I am in relationship with.
Some of the things that come up for me when I'm inclined to shift into that
mode are that my needs don't matter or that I won't be able (or allowed) to
express my needs in a way that is understood. Both of these are thoughts
that I can change, and when I change them I am doing so as a way of being
more compassionate and respectful toward *mySelf*.
It's the thoughts themselves that perpetuate how I'm feeling. No, I don't
want someone to take advantage of me... but how can someone else really do
this (not including physically threatening situations)? It can only happen
if I let it, and generally that happens w/ my thoughts. So I choose to
have different thoughts about it... that's one of the first steps.
As others have suggested, if we have some examples then we can give you
some more specific advice - and some ideas about new thoughts.
Mahalo,
Barbara
Been lurking and this thread caught my attention because I have a 2 yo that is a handful. Now, she's never been punsihed, or even had stern words (Idon't believe in stuff like that) but her tantrums are becoming a real problem. She wont sit in a chair to be fed but she's now becoming too heavy to feed on a lap, she hates going in the car seat and screams the entire journey, she screams in shops cos she hates shops, she screams in her wheelchair cos she hates that and wants to be carried.
I just don't know how to get through to her. She's blind and brain damaged and can't move a muscle (apart from her mouth!) but she's smart (or so I'm told) so she should be cappable of learning that being a tyrant is not a way to live and its stressing us all out. We are traped at home because of her behaviour.
Any ideas?
s
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fedthose who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending its money aloneit is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." Dwight Eisenhower, Speech (1953)
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Apr 9, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Bling Williams wrote:
in a situation as exceptional as that one. The learning will need to
be on your parts to figure out how others with children in similar
situations have dealt with it, I'm thinking.
I didn't know about the blindness, Shyrley. Sorry.
The question might be whether having her at home is better than
having her in an institution, not whether natural learning is going
to help her like a carseat. I doubt that she's "being a tyrant," but
that she's trying to communicate her discomfort.
If your whole family is trapped at home, will unschooling work for
any of the kids anymore?
Sandra
> She's blind and brain damaged and can't move a muscle (apart fromUnschooling as we discuss it here isn't likely to have good results
> her mouth!) but she's smart (or so I'm told) so she should be
> cappable of learning that being a tyrant is not a way to live and
> its stressing us all out. We are traped at home because of her
> behaviour.
in a situation as exceptional as that one. The learning will need to
be on your parts to figure out how others with children in similar
situations have dealt with it, I'm thinking.
I didn't know about the blindness, Shyrley. Sorry.
The question might be whether having her at home is better than
having her in an institution, not whether natural learning is going
to help her like a carseat. I doubt that she's "being a tyrant," but
that she's trying to communicate her discomfort.
If your whole family is trapped at home, will unschooling work for
any of the kids anymore?
Sandra
Bling Williams
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Unschooling as we discuss it here isn't likely to have good results
in a situation as exceptional as that one. The learning will need to
be on your parts to figure out how others with children in similar
situations have dealt with it, I'm thinking.
They tend to go for the putting the kids in school as soon as possible thing. I don't think that because Celyn has a few problems that she can't learn through unschooling type methods. Its just figuring out how.
I didn't know about the blindness, Shyrley. Sorry.
Makes it a little bit more tricky cos she can't use her hands either. But its a cortical blindness. There's nothing wrong with her eyes. Hopefully, with lots of work we can train her brain to see again.
The question might be whether having her at home is better than
having her in an institution, not whether natural learning is going
to help her like a carseat. I doubt that she's "being a tyrant," but
that she's trying to communicate her discomfort.
I think institutions (and I'm assuming you're talking about schools rather than residential type places) are seriously bad places for kids with problems. they don't get the one-to one they need to develop.
I know she's not being a tyrant really! She's like any 2 year old would be if you tied them up and blindfolded them. She wants but can't *do*!
But I'm hoping that one day someone will say 'hey, I tried this and it worked.'
If your whole family is trapped at home, will unschooling work for
any of the kids anymore?
Well, they are pretty do their own thing anyway. The boys play computer and Magic all day, go to the park, go get groceries etc. H chose to go back to school last September cos she actually likes structured learning. She said she felt like she wasn't learning academic stuff with my methods. She seems to be enjoying it and knows she can leave at any point but she likes getting A's in tests. Its just her prefered method. Bit weird to me but we're all different. I do worry about this will change her values, the whole A = worthwhile person type thing but its her journey.
Hubby and I are discussing him giving up work and becoming Celyn' s full time carer. there's many reasons, mostly my health and slipped disc in my back but the boys are right up there. Once DH is at home then I can do stuff with the boys. There will be time. The last 3 weeks DH has been home and when C's respite carers have been here he's taken them digging on our allotment which they love, he's played Magic with them, done electronics, made cakes. Its what I always pictured unschooling to be! There just needs to be 2 of us to do it. I took them to a hands on science thing they asked to go too.
But I am doing my best to make things ok despite the extra stuff Celyn brings.
(but I could do with 6 pairs of hands and a lottery win....)
S
Sandra
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.
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---------------------------------
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fedthose who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending its money aloneit is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." Dwight Eisenhower, Speech (1953)
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unschooling as we discuss it here isn't likely to have good results
in a situation as exceptional as that one. The learning will need to
be on your parts to figure out how others with children in similar
situations have dealt with it, I'm thinking.
They tend to go for the putting the kids in school as soon as possible thing. I don't think that because Celyn has a few problems that she can't learn through unschooling type methods. Its just figuring out how.
I didn't know about the blindness, Shyrley. Sorry.
Makes it a little bit more tricky cos she can't use her hands either. But its a cortical blindness. There's nothing wrong with her eyes. Hopefully, with lots of work we can train her brain to see again.
The question might be whether having her at home is better than
having her in an institution, not whether natural learning is going
to help her like a carseat. I doubt that she's "being a tyrant," but
that she's trying to communicate her discomfort.
I think institutions (and I'm assuming you're talking about schools rather than residential type places) are seriously bad places for kids with problems. they don't get the one-to one they need to develop.
I know she's not being a tyrant really! She's like any 2 year old would be if you tied them up and blindfolded them. She wants but can't *do*!
But I'm hoping that one day someone will say 'hey, I tried this and it worked.'
If your whole family is trapped at home, will unschooling work for
any of the kids anymore?
Well, they are pretty do their own thing anyway. The boys play computer and Magic all day, go to the park, go get groceries etc. H chose to go back to school last September cos she actually likes structured learning. She said she felt like she wasn't learning academic stuff with my methods. She seems to be enjoying it and knows she can leave at any point but she likes getting A's in tests. Its just her prefered method. Bit weird to me but we're all different. I do worry about this will change her values, the whole A = worthwhile person type thing but its her journey.
Hubby and I are discussing him giving up work and becoming Celyn' s full time carer. there's many reasons, mostly my health and slipped disc in my back but the boys are right up there. Once DH is at home then I can do stuff with the boys. There will be time. The last 3 weeks DH has been home and when C's respite carers have been here he's taken them digging on our allotment which they love, he's played Magic with them, done electronics, made cakes. Its what I always pictured unschooling to be! There just needs to be 2 of us to do it. I took them to a hands on science thing they asked to go too.
But I am doing my best to make things ok despite the extra stuff Celyn brings.
(but I could do with 6 pairs of hands and a lottery win....)
S
Sandra
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Su Penn
Shyrley, we just met on one of the other unschooling lists. We have a
friend with cerebral palsy, a little girl who is now three. It sounds
like hers is less severe than your daughter's, but when I met the
family a year ago, Rose was completely non-verbal and unable
physically to support herself, roll over, manipulate an object. Rose
is not completely blind but her vision is very limited. At two, she
responded to voices with a smile but not much else.
I don't know if this will be true for your daughter, but the second
half of her third year has been huge for Rose, developmentally. She's
using words, can sit in her mother's lap unsupported, can reach for
and grab a toy and amuse herself with it for awhile. She got glasses
that seem to help her vision. It's made a big difference in the whole
family's life--not least because everything Rose manages to do opens
up that many more possibilities for her in the future. But also
because Rose finally has some control over her body and her life.
A book my friend recently read that she said was very helpful was
"What To Do About Your Brain-Damaged Child." http://www.amazon.com/gp/
product/0385021399/sr=8-1/qid=1144676352/
ref=sr_1_1/102-4413944-5599367?%5Fencoding=UTF8
I haven't read the book and have no idea how it reads from an
unschooling perspective. But my friend said it was the first
parenting book she ever read that had anything to do with her and her
life.
Su
friend with cerebral palsy, a little girl who is now three. It sounds
like hers is less severe than your daughter's, but when I met the
family a year ago, Rose was completely non-verbal and unable
physically to support herself, roll over, manipulate an object. Rose
is not completely blind but her vision is very limited. At two, she
responded to voices with a smile but not much else.
I don't know if this will be true for your daughter, but the second
half of her third year has been huge for Rose, developmentally. She's
using words, can sit in her mother's lap unsupported, can reach for
and grab a toy and amuse herself with it for awhile. She got glasses
that seem to help her vision. It's made a big difference in the whole
family's life--not least because everything Rose manages to do opens
up that many more possibilities for her in the future. But also
because Rose finally has some control over her body and her life.
A book my friend recently read that she said was very helpful was
"What To Do About Your Brain-Damaged Child." http://www.amazon.com/gp/
product/0385021399/sr=8-1/qid=1144676352/
ref=sr_1_1/102-4413944-5599367?%5Fencoding=UTF8
I haven't read the book and have no idea how it reads from an
unschooling perspective. But my friend said it was the first
parenting book she ever read that had anything to do with her and her
life.
Su
Bling Williams
Thanks. Thats amazing and gives me hope. Loooking back over the last 2 years Celyn has made huge strides froma baby not expected to live or be a vegetable to an opiniated little red haired madam. having the ed Psych tell us she wasn't retarded was the best thing ever (and I mean no disrespect to people who are retarded or have mental impairments.)
Hubby and I give Celyn 100% input all the time to help her. Some of it is a bit against my principles - for example, Celyn has already realised that trying to reach is tough. So she doesn't do it, she knows her minions will hold the toy for her or press her switch. So I'm telling her if she doesn't press her switch then the toy wont move and I ain't doing it. I also make her signal yes and no or pick up rather than make assumptions. She has tantrums sometimes about being made to do stuff but heck, she's 2.
But thanks for that. It gives me hope.
Shyrley
Su Penn <supenn@...> wrote:
Shyrley, we just met on one of the other unschooling lists. We have a
friend with cerebral palsy, a little girl who is now three. It sounds
like hers is less severe than your daughter's, but when I met the
family a year ago, Rose was completely non-verbal and unable
physically to support herself, roll over, manipulate an object. Rose
is not completely blind but her vision is very limited. At two, she
responded to voices with a smile but not much else.
I don't know if this will be true for your daughter, but the second
half of her third year has been huge for Rose, developmentally. She's
using words, can sit in her mother's lap unsupported, can reach for
and grab a toy and amuse herself with it for awhile. She got glasses
that seem to help her vision. It's made a big difference in the whole
family's life--not least because everything Rose manages to do opens
up that many more possibilities for her in the future. But also
because Rose finally has some control over her body and her life.
A book my friend recently read that she said was very helpful was
"What To Do About Your Brain-Damaged Child." http://www.amazon.com/gp/
product/0385021399/sr=8-1/qid=1144676352/
ref=sr_1_1/102-4413944-5599367?%5Fencoding=UTF8
I haven't read the book and have no idea how it reads from an
unschooling perspective. But my friend said it was the first
parenting book she ever read that had anything to do with her and her
life.
Su
---------------------------------
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fedthose who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending its money aloneit is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." Dwight Eisenhower, Speech (1953)
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hubby and I give Celyn 100% input all the time to help her. Some of it is a bit against my principles - for example, Celyn has already realised that trying to reach is tough. So she doesn't do it, she knows her minions will hold the toy for her or press her switch. So I'm telling her if she doesn't press her switch then the toy wont move and I ain't doing it. I also make her signal yes and no or pick up rather than make assumptions. She has tantrums sometimes about being made to do stuff but heck, she's 2.
But thanks for that. It gives me hope.
Shyrley
Su Penn <supenn@...> wrote:
Shyrley, we just met on one of the other unschooling lists. We have a
friend with cerebral palsy, a little girl who is now three. It sounds
like hers is less severe than your daughter's, but when I met the
family a year ago, Rose was completely non-verbal and unable
physically to support herself, roll over, manipulate an object. Rose
is not completely blind but her vision is very limited. At two, she
responded to voices with a smile but not much else.
I don't know if this will be true for your daughter, but the second
half of her third year has been huge for Rose, developmentally. She's
using words, can sit in her mother's lap unsupported, can reach for
and grab a toy and amuse herself with it for awhile. She got glasses
that seem to help her vision. It's made a big difference in the whole
family's life--not least because everything Rose manages to do opens
up that many more possibilities for her in the future. But also
because Rose finally has some control over her body and her life.
A book my friend recently read that she said was very helpful was
"What To Do About Your Brain-Damaged Child." http://www.amazon.com/gp/
product/0385021399/sr=8-1/qid=1144676352/
ref=sr_1_1/102-4413944-5599367?%5Fencoding=UTF8
I haven't read the book and have no idea how it reads from an
unschooling perspective. But my friend said it was the first
parenting book she ever read that had anything to do with her and her
life.
Su
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fedthose who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending its money aloneit is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." Dwight Eisenhower, Speech (1953)
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]