late readers and how to talk to family
Marty & Mary Alterman
Hello, I am a fairly new member. I have been following the
discussion on reading....and was waiting to hear from anyone who has a
tween who is just beginning to read...My son is eleven years old and
we have tried all sorts of approaches, the first being to wait it out,
unschooling, you could say. there came a point, around eight, where
his self-esteem was so low because he could see that others his age
could read and he wasn't. Because he expressed an interest in
learning, we finally did the 100 lessons to teach your child to read.
He and my husband did it at bedtime...they "stuck it out" (I've been
also reading the posting on learning and teaching) and did get to the
end of the book. He was able to recognize all his letters but still
couldn't remember most words, even the simplest, and seemed to do a
lot of guessing. Then last summer, I finally gave in, and attending
the Orton Gillingham workshop at our Minnesota Homeschooling
Conference. I had been avoiding it because it sounded so horrible and
tedious. Turned out to be just the thing for my son. They teach to a
kid's strengths and they go slowly. I have read things about
dyslexia, which "label" I have also been avoiding for all the years of
my teacher training and mothering, and some of the things I read fit
my experience of my son...he is exceedinly creative and inventive. So
we've been using an Orton-Gillingham tutor (paid for, thank goodness,
by a sister-in-law who was adamant that my son should seek
professional help). The tutor, Barbara, is a sweetheart who actually
homeschools one of her kids for part of the year, and I have watched
my son's confidence build as he has learned to recognize more and more
words and has applied his learning to his "My Space" e-mail messages.
He's getting a little tired of the tutoring these days, twice a week
for an hour, and so we are discussing other options like being more
consistent working with me....but I must say, I am not in a big hurry
to discontinue this tutor.
Now I suspect that all this flies in the face of everything
unschoolers stand for. I "waited it out" and coudn't stand seeing my
son suffer any longer not knowing how to read, not even wanting to
open a book and look at words.
I am posting this message because I would like to know if there are
others out there in the Unschooling community who have had similar
experiences...and I am certainly open to hearing from people who might
disagree with the route we took and want to voice that. Thanks. Mary
discussion on reading....and was waiting to hear from anyone who has a
tween who is just beginning to read...My son is eleven years old and
we have tried all sorts of approaches, the first being to wait it out,
unschooling, you could say. there came a point, around eight, where
his self-esteem was so low because he could see that others his age
could read and he wasn't. Because he expressed an interest in
learning, we finally did the 100 lessons to teach your child to read.
He and my husband did it at bedtime...they "stuck it out" (I've been
also reading the posting on learning and teaching) and did get to the
end of the book. He was able to recognize all his letters but still
couldn't remember most words, even the simplest, and seemed to do a
lot of guessing. Then last summer, I finally gave in, and attending
the Orton Gillingham workshop at our Minnesota Homeschooling
Conference. I had been avoiding it because it sounded so horrible and
tedious. Turned out to be just the thing for my son. They teach to a
kid's strengths and they go slowly. I have read things about
dyslexia, which "label" I have also been avoiding for all the years of
my teacher training and mothering, and some of the things I read fit
my experience of my son...he is exceedinly creative and inventive. So
we've been using an Orton-Gillingham tutor (paid for, thank goodness,
by a sister-in-law who was adamant that my son should seek
professional help). The tutor, Barbara, is a sweetheart who actually
homeschools one of her kids for part of the year, and I have watched
my son's confidence build as he has learned to recognize more and more
words and has applied his learning to his "My Space" e-mail messages.
He's getting a little tired of the tutoring these days, twice a week
for an hour, and so we are discussing other options like being more
consistent working with me....but I must say, I am not in a big hurry
to discontinue this tutor.
Now I suspect that all this flies in the face of everything
unschoolers stand for. I "waited it out" and coudn't stand seeing my
son suffer any longer not knowing how to read, not even wanting to
open a book and look at words.
I am posting this message because I would like to know if there are
others out there in the Unschooling community who have had similar
experiences...and I am certainly open to hearing from people who might
disagree with the route we took and want to voice that. Thanks. Mary
[email protected]
My son is almost 13 and is just now reading. He went to Kindergarten for a few months and went from a kid who LOVED having a stack of books read each day to a kid who didn't let me even read to him for over 2 years. We waited. He played video games that required a bit of reading and got tired of waiting for me to walk in from the kitchen to read whatever he needed to be read. He got to where he recognized a few words and that grew. He still mainly sight reads and if there are more than a few sentences it overwhelms him. I don't think it is a "reading" issue but rather a neurological issue...he is extremely antsy, understands visual-spatial things that are in motion in an uncanny way, has mixed dominance neurologically, etc..
Each year he has learned more and more. I don't know if he will ever read for pleasure but he is able to read for information at this point.
If my kid was really wanting to read, if they were upset, I would ask if they wanted me to try to help them. I would do it just like I would help them learn to ride a bike or bake a cake. It would be fun, it would be just another thing we do.
Julie S.
Each year he has learned more and more. I don't know if he will ever read for pleasure but he is able to read for information at this point.
If my kid was really wanting to read, if they were upset, I would ask if they wanted me to try to help them. I would do it just like I would help them learn to ride a bike or bake a cake. It would be fun, it would be just another thing we do.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty & Mary Alterman <malterman@...>
Date: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:46 am
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] late readers and how to talk to family
> Hello, I am a fairly new member. I have been following the
> discussion on reading....and was waiting to hear from anyone who
> has a
> tween who is just beginning to read...My son is eleven years old and
> we have tried all sorts of approaches, the first being to wait it out,
> unschooling, you could say. there came a point, around eight, where
> his self-esteem was so low because he could see that others his age
> could read and he wasn't. Because he expressed an interest in
> learning, we finally did the 100 lessons to teach your child to read.
> He and my husband did it at bedtime...they "stuck it out" (I've been
> also reading the posting on learning and teaching) and did get to the
> end of the book. He was able to recognize all his letters but still
> couldn't remember most words, even the simplest, and seemed to do a
> lot of guessing. Then last summer, I finally gave in, and attending
> the Orton Gillingham workshop at our Minnesota Homeschooling
> Conference. I had been avoiding it because it sounded so horrible and
> tedious. Turned out to be just the thing for my son. They teach
> to a
> kid's strengths and they go slowly. I have read things about
> dyslexia, which "label" I have also been avoiding for all the
> years of
> my teacher training and mothering, and some of the things I read fit
> my experience of my son...he is exceedinly creative and inventive.
> So
> we've been using an Orton-Gillingham tutor (paid for, thank goodness,
> by a sister-in-law who was adamant that my son should seek
> professional help). The tutor, Barbara, is a sweetheart who actually
> homeschools one of her kids for part of the year, and I have watched
> my son's confidence build as he has learned to recognize more and more
> words and has applied his learning to his "My Space" e-mail
> messages.
> He's getting a little tired of the tutoring these days, twice a week
> for an hour, and so we are discussing other options like being more
> consistent working with me....but I must say, I am not in a big hurry
> to discontinue this tutor.
>
> Now I suspect that all this flies in the face of everything
> unschoolers stand for. I "waited it out" and coudn't stand seeing my
> son suffer any longer not knowing how to read, not even wanting to
> open a book and look at words.
>
> I am posting this message because I would like to know if there are
> others out there in the Unschooling community who have had similar
> experiences...and I am certainly open to hearing from people who might
> disagree with the route we took and want to voice that. Thanks. Mary
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:46 PM, Marty & Mary Alterman wrote:
something wrong about not be able to read at 8? How did you respond?
So becoming concerned at 8 isn't "waiting it out."
In principle (for others with younger kids who are worried)
confidence that kids *will* read and reassurances that the child
*will* read when his brain is ready for it are much better than
trying different reading methods. *Especially* if the child isn't
ready to read. A reading method will very likely convince the child
that there's something wrong with him if he even fails with
professional reading methods. :-/
The best thing to do is ask other unschoolers, especially on big
lists! Ask what their experiences are. Get feedback on what other
unschoolers have done in the same situation.
Some kids want to ride a bike at 5 but they just don't have the right
brain/body connections to do it no matter how hard they try. Until
those connections are ready, they just can't. And being upset at not
being able to ride is like being upset with a broken leg for not
working properly.
It's the same with reading. Until all the brain areas involved in
reading are mature, it's just not going to happen.
If a child is bothered at 8, I'd find out why then I'd give him lots
of reassurance to build his confidence. I'd pass on stories from
other unschooled kids so he'd know he wasn't the only one. We need to
work against nonsensical schoolish messages that just aren't true.
There's no reason an 8 yo who isn't reading should be reading. He
*shouldn't* have been concerned that he couldn't read at 10.
I'm glad you found something that worked for him *but* since he was
down *at 8* (which is early for reading for boys anyway) it sounds
like he didn't have a positive supportive environment that would have
allowed him to know he would read when he was ready.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> there came a point, around eight, whereWhy was he concerned? Where was he getting the message that there was
> his self-esteem was so low because he could see that others his age
> could read and he wasn't.
something wrong about not be able to read at 8? How did you respond?
> the first being to wait it outIt isn't at all unusual, especially for boys, not to be reading at 8.
So becoming concerned at 8 isn't "waiting it out."
In principle (for others with younger kids who are worried)
confidence that kids *will* read and reassurances that the child
*will* read when his brain is ready for it are much better than
trying different reading methods. *Especially* if the child isn't
ready to read. A reading method will very likely convince the child
that there's something wrong with him if he even fails with
professional reading methods. :-/
The best thing to do is ask other unschoolers, especially on big
lists! Ask what their experiences are. Get feedback on what other
unschoolers have done in the same situation.
> He was able to recognize all his letters but stillHe just wasn't ready to read.
> couldn't remember most words, even the simplest, and seemed to do a
> lot of guessing.
Some kids want to ride a bike at 5 but they just don't have the right
brain/body connections to do it no matter how hard they try. Until
those connections are ready, they just can't. And being upset at not
being able to ride is like being upset with a broken leg for not
working properly.
It's the same with reading. Until all the brain areas involved in
reading are mature, it's just not going to happen.
> Then last summer, I finally gave inSo he was only 10 when you gave in. 10 is *still* too early to worry.
If a child is bothered at 8, I'd find out why then I'd give him lots
of reassurance to build his confidence. I'd pass on stories from
other unschooled kids so he'd know he wasn't the only one. We need to
work against nonsensical schoolish messages that just aren't true.
There's no reason an 8 yo who isn't reading should be reading. He
*shouldn't* have been concerned that he couldn't read at 10.
I'm glad you found something that worked for him *but* since he was
down *at 8* (which is early for reading for boys anyway) it sounds
like he didn't have a positive supportive environment that would have
allowed him to know he would read when he was ready.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Mar 24, 2006, at 5:59 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
happen, if the child is surrounded by opportunity.
UNLESS... unless he has been traumatized and filled with fear and
shame and he comes to avoid the printed word, to freeze up when
reading opportunities arise. School is GREAT at creating lifetime
non-readers. Unschoolers who begin early enough not to shame,
pressure, label, measure and "teach" can't produce a lifetime non-
reader.
When Holly wasn't reading we had the embarrassment and frustration
that comes from others looking at each other with the "unschooling
doesn't work" look, but because she was the third and the boys were
reading and she was clearly intelligent and verbal, I knew it would
happen. It did. And when it clicked for her, her vocabulary was
already extensive and acrobatic. She didn't need to limit herself to
"first grade words." Once the system worked for her, she read five
syllable words as easily as "hop on pop."
I think some people assume that for every reader there is a year of
baby books, then first grade books, and a year of second grade books
before they can read chapter books. I think that might be true at
school, but it's an indication that those children are "doing reading
lessons," which is not always even NEARLY the same as reading. Many
schoolkids are getting B's or C's in reading at school but cannot
read in the real world. They can only read from the carefully
engineered-to-be-simple things they've already heard discussed, and
from the limited vocabulary the authors of their reading lessons put
in. Short words are substituted for longer words. Sentences are
short. Sentences are small. We play at it. We play at reading.
Children do not think. They do not fly. Words do not flow. Blah
blah blah blah.
Holly didn't read during that "phase." Her first reading was Harry
Potter cards, Judy Blume and Stephen King.
Sandra
> It's the same with reading. Until all the brain areas involved inAnd when the brain areas involved are mature, it is just going to
> reading are mature, it's just not going to happen.
happen, if the child is surrounded by opportunity.
UNLESS... unless he has been traumatized and filled with fear and
shame and he comes to avoid the printed word, to freeze up when
reading opportunities arise. School is GREAT at creating lifetime
non-readers. Unschoolers who begin early enough not to shame,
pressure, label, measure and "teach" can't produce a lifetime non-
reader.
When Holly wasn't reading we had the embarrassment and frustration
that comes from others looking at each other with the "unschooling
doesn't work" look, but because she was the third and the boys were
reading and she was clearly intelligent and verbal, I knew it would
happen. It did. And when it clicked for her, her vocabulary was
already extensive and acrobatic. She didn't need to limit herself to
"first grade words." Once the system worked for her, she read five
syllable words as easily as "hop on pop."
I think some people assume that for every reader there is a year of
baby books, then first grade books, and a year of second grade books
before they can read chapter books. I think that might be true at
school, but it's an indication that those children are "doing reading
lessons," which is not always even NEARLY the same as reading. Many
schoolkids are getting B's or C's in reading at school but cannot
read in the real world. They can only read from the carefully
engineered-to-be-simple things they've already heard discussed, and
from the limited vocabulary the authors of their reading lessons put
in. Short words are substituted for longer words. Sentences are
short. Sentences are small. We play at it. We play at reading.
Children do not think. They do not fly. Words do not flow. Blah
blah blah blah.
Holly didn't read during that "phase." Her first reading was Harry
Potter cards, Judy Blume and Stephen King.
Sandra