Mary Hickman

Hi all, Mary here in Davis, Ca. I've been busy with illness and broken
computers and holiday etc. Glad to be back. My son is 5 today, hurray.

I'm writing to get a little feedback. My 7 year old treats us family members
like doo doo. She talks back, pretends to kick us, slams doors, yells,
resists help many times each day... She is great out and about, makes
friends easily. As for her home behavior, I've had enough of letting her
express her feelings. She actually loves to joke too, the silly stuff, which
I find sooooo iritating when I'm in need of a simple ok, lets do it, like
brush teeth. To me, she is stuck in a mode and needs some alternatives. I am
now finding myself threatning her with if you treat me and your brother
poorly, no afternoon friends, (just a fancy go to your room, I can't take
it). She would love to play with friends all day everyday. I find she treats
us worse the more she is away by herself.

Here is a simple example of her mode. Both kids have new cool electronic
toys. Brother asks to play with her toy. NO she barks. I help pull him off
her, respecting her no. Later he asks again. No she barks. Same scene. It
happens again. Then she asks brother for a turn with his cool toy. Sure Ash.
After she takes her very long turn, Riley asks for a turn with her toy. No
she barks. I did insist she give him a turn this time.
I do't get it. Then later, she let's all the neighborhood kids take as many
and as long of turns as they want.

Seems she has been festering this type of behavior since she was about 5.
Did I mention we have a 2 year old too. Hubby and I wonder if this isn't a
case of I want to be an only child. Or give me more attention. Seems that we
do spend a ton of our time in Ashley's world. I'm looking for suggestions on
how to help her see what she is doing hurts our feeling. Also ways to guide
her towards better choices, yet I know she has to be the one to want to be
kind. Talk to you all soon,

Mary


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On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:15:12 -0800 "Mary Hickman" <mfhick@...>
writes:
> I'm writing to get a little feedback. My 7 year old treats us family
members
> like doo doo. She talks back, pretends to kick us, slams doors, yells,
> resists help many times each day...

If it helps at all, I know quite a few kids who were like this until they
turned 8, and then they became much easier to be with...

What kind of help are you trying to give her? My daughter resists help
pretty much all the time, unless it's something she's specifically asked
for help with, and even then she wants only the help she's asked for and
no more. If I don't respect her boundaries here, she does get cranky with
me.

It sounds like your daughter maybe needs more social interaction than you
and your son, too - is she an extravert in a family of introverts? I know
a family like this, and when the daughter's needs for social interaction
aren't met, she can get pretty nasty to her family... and it took a while
for them to see it, because the mom and son cane quite happily stay home
and putter 5 days out of 6, but a day without friends is torture for the
sister. It's been hard for them to come to a balance, but the girl really
needs to recharge her batteries by being with people.

Also, with the not sharing with her brother stuff - I wonder if some of
this is behavior she's picked up from other kids. I've noticed that the
homeschooled kids we know, almost without exception, are generally
protective of siblings, but the schooled kids we know are generally at
odds with them. Not all the time, of course, but enough that I notice it.
I also wonder if this is a pattern that you've all fallen into and your
son is equally aware of it and working it - it's easy sometimes to blame
the kid who looks "mean", but perhaps your son also has found a role he's
comfortable with, and he knows that you'll eventually step in and make
his sister give him what he wants.

Just some random thought,

Dar
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In a message dated 1/11/02 10:18:38 AM, mfhick@... writes:

<< Seems she has been festering this type of behavior since she was about 5.
Did I mention we have a 2 year old too. Hubby and I wonder if this isn't a
case of I want to be an only child. Or give me more attention. >>

I'm guessing YES.

She probably needs to be held and babied, and have time alone with mom.

<<Seems that we
do spend a ton of our time in Ashley's world. >>

Maybe she needs to spend more time in your safe world, without competition.

<<yet I know she has to be the one to want to be
kind.>>

Give her so much kindness she has extra to distribute. I don't think there's
any other way. And you need to do it now, not think about it until summer.
She's needy now, and the meanness could solidify into something painful for
all unless you break it up and let it pass now. Think kidney stones, for an
analogy. Change her diet and medicate it now (with love and attention) and
they might break down and pass on through.

Don't spend time with her talking about how you want her to act. Spend time
with her acting like you want her to act.

Sandra

Karin

Hi Mary - Happy birthday for your son! It seems to me a lot of kids and adults here have birthdays in Jan. & Feb.
Anyway, I have an 8 yos (soon to be 9 later this month) that acts up in irritating ways sometimes. As I think about it in retrospect, it is usually because he wants attention and I guess that is his way of getting it.

What I have been trying lately (when I can remember) is that whenever he is acting particulary *bad* I tell him, "I think you need a hug". He resists, because it is such an unnatural time for a hug when emotions are flying. But I pull him to me and hug him and he just melts into it and returns the hug back. Sometimes this is enough to diffuse any bad feelings on my part or his, and we can continue on with the day. Sometimes we talk about what might really be bothering him. Just showing and expressing that I love him even when he is at his worst does wonders. Something like this may work for you, too. Good luck.

Karin




Mary Hickman wrote:


Hi all, Mary here in Davis, Ca. I've been busy with illness and broken
computers and holiday etc. Glad to be back. My son is 5 today, hurray.

I'm writing to get a little feedback. My 7 year old treats us family members
like doo doo. She talks back, pretends to kick us, slams doors, yells,
resists help many times each day... She is great out and about, makes
friends easily. As for her home behavior, I've had enough of letting her
express her feelings. She actually loves to joke too, the silly stuff, which
I find sooooo iritating when I'm in need of a simple ok, lets do it, like
brush teeth. To me, she is stuck in a mode and needs some alternatives. I am
now finding myself threatning her with if you treat me and your brother
poorly, no afternoon friends, (just a fancy go to your room, I can't take
it). She would love to play with friends all day everyday. I find she treats
us worse the more she is away by herself.

Here is a simple example of her mode. Both kids have new cool electronic
toys. Brother asks to play with her toy. NO she barks. I help pull him off
her, respecting her no. Later he asks again. No she barks. Same scene. It
happens again. Then she asks brother for a turn with his cool toy. Sure Ash.
After she takes her very long turn, Riley asks for a turn with her toy. No
she barks. I did insist she give him a turn this time.
I do't get it. Then later, she let's all the neighborhood kids take as many
and as long of turns as they want.

Seems she has been festering this type of behavior since she was about 5.
Did I mention we have a 2 year old too. Hubby and I wonder if this isn't a
case of I want to be an only child. Or give me more attention. Seems that we
do spend a ton of our time in Ashley's world. I'm looking for suggestions on
how to help her see what she is doing hurts our feeling. Also ways to guide
her towards better choices, yet I know she has to be the one to want to be
kind. Talk to you all soon,

Mary


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jessica Kelly

I just wanted to say that I found the list replies to this query to be extremely sensitive and loving, and I'm very happy that I signed up on alwayslearning. Good luck, Mary, and hugs to the kids. Peace!

--
Jessica Kelly
W o r d U p
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"There would be no greater joy than to see a beautiful park
that our children and adults can go to and learn about the
oil and gas industry."
- Tony Sanchez, former Texas Parks & Wildlife Commissioner
[it's all about oil...]
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Jocelyn Vilter

on 01/11/02 10:43 AM, Karin at curtkar@... wrote:

> What I have been trying lately (when I can remember) is that whenever he is
> acting particulary *bad* I tell him, "I think you need a hug". He resists,
> because it is such an unnatural time for a hug when emotions are flying. But I
> pull him to me and hug him and he just melts into it and returns the hug back.
> Sometimes this is enough to diffuse any bad feelings on my part or his, and we
> can continue on with the day. Sometimes we talk about what might really be
> bothering him. Just showing and expressing that I love him even when he is at
> his worst does wonders. Something like this may work for you, too. Good luck.

Sandra,

What is it you say about smelling your kids hair? I can't remember the
exact phrasing, or whatever, but I have done it at times when I thought I
was really mad at Matthew, and it works like magic for me - I think there's
something very primal going on there.

Jocelyn

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/11/02 12:23:04 PM, JVilter@... writes:

<< What is it you say about smelling your kids hair? I can't remember the
exact phrasing, or whatever, but I have done it at times when I thought I
was really mad at Matthew, and it works like magic for me - I think there's
something very primal going on there. >>

When I was angry with little kids, I would hug them and take a full, deep
breath where I could smell their heads, and it calmed me down every single
time. It still works with Holly, but I miss doing it with Kirby and Marty.

Another primal thing is going on--they don't smell so good to me anymore.
I'm assuming it's part of the separation phase. When there are several
teenaged boys here, the others might smell earthy or slightly in need of a
shower, but my own STINK. And Kirby takes a shower every day, so I'm
thinking it's that he stinks to me more than to other people.



Sandra

Earth Witch

Hi Mary. It sounds like she really needs some
attention, probably alone with you. My oldest son was
having some similar behaviors and they have improved
greatly since I have made sure that everyday he gets
time alone with me. I spend about 20 mins every
evening doing yoga with each of my kids separately.
Then I read to them or play a game with them, still
separate. It has given them each time to have mommy's
full attention for about an hour and their attitudes
have really become more positive.
Maybe you can find something both you and your
daughter enjoy doing, and schedule time to do those
things alone together. Also, sometimes older siblings
do not want to share toys because the younger ones
have broken or damaged things in the past. She may
have a very reasonable explanation for some of her
behavior and may see you stepping in as 'taking
sides'.
Above all, show her she is loved, even if she is
feeling unlovable. Affection can go a long way.

Hope you find something that works for you.

Kitrina

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Jocelyn Vilter

on 01/11/02 11:31 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Another primal thing is going on--they don't smell so good to me anymore.
> I'm assuming it's part of the separation phase. When there are several
> teenaged boys here, the others might smell earthy or slightly in need of a
> shower, but my own STINK. And Kirby takes a shower every day, so I'm
> thinking it's that he stinks to me more than to other people.

Very interesting - at 12 and a half, Matthew still smells good to me. Now,
I'm not saying that he never needs a shower, because he often times does.
But there's still something there for me, beyond the boystink that calms my
heart and makes me remember whatever it is that I'm pissed about is only
transitory. I imagine that my days of separation are coming :-(

jocelyn

Joylyn

hmm, that's interesting. I never thought of
this like this. Seperation.

Joylyn

SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/11/02 12:23:04 PM,
> JVilter@... writes:
>
> << What is it you say about smelling your
> kids hair? I can't remember the
> exact phrasing, or whatever, but I have
> done it at times when I thought I
> was really mad at Matthew, and it works
> like magic for me - I think there's
> something very primal going on there. >>
>
> When I was angry with little kids, I would
> hug them and take a full, deep
> breath where I could smell their heads, and
> it calmed me down every single
> time. It still works with Holly, but I
> miss doing it with Kirby and Marty.
>
> Another primal thing is going on--they
> don't smell so good to me anymore.
> I'm assuming it's part of the separation
> phase. When there are several
> teenaged boys here, the others might smell
> earthy or slightly in need of a
> shower, but my own STINK. And Kirby takes
> a shower every day, so I'm
> thinking it's that he stinks to me more
> than to other people.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma *

>>She would love to play with friends all day everyday. I find she treats us
>>worse the more she is away by herself.>>

Sounds like she's an extrovert, like my daughter. My Casey *needs* to get
enough people time or she gets whiny and disagreeable. Like someone else
commented, it's how she recharges her battery. If she doesn't get enough
input, it's like being hungry, cranky or overstimulated for another kid.

>>Here is a simple example of her mode. Both kids have new cool electronic
>>toys. Brother asks to play with her toy. NO she barks. I help pull him off
>>her, respecting her no.>>

She probably shouldn't bark no, but he shouldn't be getting physical with
her either. Maybe they're just playing off each other in the only way they
know how. Or do you mean pull him off her in the figurative sense?

>>Then later, she let's all the neighborhood kids take as many and as long
>>of turns as they want.>>

In a weird way, I always take this as a good sign. It shows that she knows
her family will always love her, even if she acts as cranky as she feels.
It's safe. That's a good thing in its' own way. With friends and neighbors,
she might not be so sure they won't turn on her.

>>Seems she has been festering this type of behavior since she was about 5.
>>Did I mention we have a 2 year old too.>>

I remember reading that when an only child is really young when the second
is born, they don't get a chance to express their true feelings about it.
They're too little to tell you how they feel. Then when number three comes
along they act out all the bad feelings they may have had as a toddler about
getting a new sibling and going from being an only to an older sister. Does
that make sense?

>>Hubby and I wonder if this isn't a case of I want to be an only child. Or
>>give me more attention.>>

Could be. She might just need "more" of everything. I know my Casey does. I
try to love her up as much as I can and give her what I think she's needing.
Usually it's more attention or something new to stimulate her mind. Lots of
times it's NOT hugs or kisses or tickles. She has a big personal space, even
with me sometimes. She wants me to allow her in, but not to force my
affection on her. Respecting that need helps a lot too. People have a hard
time understanding that she doesn't want a hug when she falls down. But she
does want attention.

>>Seems that we do spend a ton of our time in Ashley's world.>>

I think it's great to give her as much of yourself as you can without
ignoring everyone else's needs, including your own. It can be a balancing
act, but well worth it. I think 7 is a tough year. Casey didn't get "mean"
but she became almost phobic about her attachment to me. I think a lot of
development goes on at 7 and it comes out in different ways for different
kids.

Let us know how you're doing with it all.

~Mary

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carolyn

I've been following this thread with increasing interest, trying to
figure out why all of this sounds so much like my 11 year old daughter,
an only child. I think I finally got it. I remarried a little over a
year ago and much of what is happening around here is very similar to
the 7 year old with new siblings except that in our case, it's the new
hubby/stepdad.

I'd subscribed to a step parents list but most of the people there are
what I would consider cruel, tough love, that kind of thing. I'm
becoming more convinced than ever that she's feeling left out and acting
out of hurt and rejection.

I guess I need to make more of a point to spend more one on one time
with her, although mostly what she asks for is more time with him.
Recently, he's been making an increased effort to spend more time with
her. I often feel like she's just trying to keep us apart. Three is
such a difficult number to balance, we so often end up divided two and
one.

Maybe someone has some helpful words to share.

Carolyn

freeform@... wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:15:12 -0800 "Mary Hickman" <mfhick@...>
>
> writes:
> > I'm writing to get a little feedback. My 7 year old treats us family
>
> members
> > like doo doo. She talks back, pretends to kick us, slams doors,
> yells,
> > resists help many times each day...

Mary Hickman

Hello,
Thank you all for you kind and helpful words. I read through my original
post and felt, wow, I must have been grumpy myself. Anyhow, she is 100
percent extrovert. She also is very physical, like smother love. We do all
cosleep. I like the idea of each kid having a day each week. I also know my
own emotional bankaccount is low. Sick kids (strep and chicken pox times 3),
sick hubby, aging Fil at resthome. I am really trying to remember when they
are the most unlovable they are in need of the most love. Sandra, I like
your analogy to treat it now like an illness. Gosh, I'll stay up all night
with sick fevery kids, now I need to find the combination of love and
attention to provide her. I do think she does hate her brother at some deep
level. As for her baby sis, she is much more kind to her. I'm trying to see
her positive traits.

So, if you have siblings who really do dislike eachother, what do you do. I
know Riley feels deeply for Ashley, so the dislike is more one sided. He
gets crushed by her constantly. No, Riley that E is backwards. We try never
to correct the kids, yet this guy gets corrected 1000 times each day by her.
Riley on the other hand still thinks it is ok to hit, hurt, damage things
when he is mad. He gets mad alot. Double mad at sis for ever time she tells
him he is wrong. She doesn't seem able to stop telling him things which hurt
his feelings. Such a cycle. Any thoughts.

Mary in Davis, Ca.



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In a message dated 1/12/02 10:20:09 AM, mfhick@... writes:

<< So, if you have siblings who really do dislike eachother, what do you do.
I
know Riley feels deeply for Ashley, so the dislike is more one sided. >>

Marty and Kirby had a rough few years. Marty used to say "I hate Kirby,"
when we were alone, and he meant it. What I would say was that it was my
job to make sure that each of them had as good a life as they could, and I
had to defend Kirby some too. Marty understood that.

Another thing I used to do sometimes when it was just me and Marty was to
talk about what if Marty was an only child. And we'd talk about what would
be really cool, and also what he wouldn't like about it. And I've told him
that he was the only planned baby of the three, and that he was the very
sweetest baby of them all, and that when he was born he looked at me in a way
the others didn't, seeming very familiar with the world and very wise.

I reminded Kirby just yesterday that I'm glad to have been part of his
childhood and sometimes I miss that little Kirby, and that I'm proud of the
man he's becoming.

These discussions are good for private, and not much like that can be said in
mixed groups of them.

Holly's particular fantasy is that she could stay little. We talk about that
sometimes, and I still pick her up and rock her sometimes. Yesterday I did.
She jumped up and I stood in the kitchen and rocked back and forth with her.
She said "I'm so glad you can still pick me up." I am too.

When Kirby was mean to Marty I would save Marty from the situation, and try
to get him out of the house for something real and useful, or find him
something to do that he hadn't done for a long time, or ever. I'd pull out
some old box of games that Keith and I had put up high when we had kids, or
photos of when Marty was little, or something comforting and distracting.

And meanwhile I'd go tell Kirby (he was 9, 10 at the worst parts of it) that
he shouldn't be cruel because it made Marty's life rough and it didn't make
him/Kirby a better person. I'd remind him to take a deep breath if he was
getting frustrated, and I'd sit and let him tell me what it was that Marty
had done that made him so angry.

After a bit, I'd go talk to Marty and say, "You know, Marty, when Kirby is
playing with you nicely, you probably shouldn't do X... and he'll play with
you longer."

What I didn't do was to make rules about how every such incident should be
handled, because they were different, and the kids were older each time. I
didn't punish either one of them. Being brothers in those days was more
punishment than either deserved, and it was MY doing, not theirs, that they
were forced into the same house and family, and forced to share a mom.

Too many parents treat their kids like uninvited guests who are being
uncooperative about the few or many simple rules which are being imposed on
them. That seems ignorant and cold to me.

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>Being brothers in those days was more punishment than either deserved, and
>>it was MY doing, not theirs, that they were forced into the same house and
>>family, and forced to share a mom.>>

This is so true, Sandra, for so many siblings. Here in our house, one kid is
an extreme introvert and the other an extreme extrovert. While they seem to
like each other right now, there have been times when one or the other is
not so agreeable. As you said, they didn't choose each other. And they
usually do seem to appreciate each other for their differences.

We were once talking aobut the idea that we choose the family we belong to.
Kind of like our soul choosing where we want/need to go. Anyway, right at
this moment Conor got upset with Casey over something and was grumping
mightily. In light of our conversation, I asked him "well, why did you
choose this family if she's such a pain?" He responded without missing a
beat, "I thought I was going to be an only child!" lol It was all said light
heartedly, but made me think.

~Mary

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In a message dated 1/12/02 11:15:51 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< We were once talking aobut the idea that we choose the family we belong
to.
Kind of like our soul choosing where we want/need to go. >>

I know it makes some people feel better to think that.
Joyce and I met a guy the other day who believes he and his iguana have had
several lifetimes together.

I think we're randomly where we are. I just think about how many sperm are
ejaculated each time, and how one occasionally makes it, but still not all
zygotes are future born-people. And it makes me think it's too superstitious
and convoluted to think of plans of floating souls and all that.

If it's true, that's not going to destroy my universe, but it doesn't need to
be true or false for me to function as well as I can with my kids. No sense
blaming them for being here.

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>I know it makes some people feel better to think that.>>

Just as it makes others feel better to think that it's all just random,
physical and scientifically explained. I don't adhere to either belief
system, but I'm open to discussing them.

>>Joyce and I met a guy the other day who believes he and his iguana have
>>had several lifetimes together.>>

I've often felt that my husband and I have have "danced this dance" before.
There's nothing I could prove, it's just a feeling that floats in and out my
being once in awhile. Who's to say this guy didn't meet up with his iguana
before? It may be fun to giggle at him and believe him superstitious, but
that doesn't make him wrong.

>>And it makes me think it's too superstitious and convoluted to think of
>>plans of floating souls and all that.>>

I don't necessarily believe it, like I said. But I don't necessarily
discount it either. The fact that matter can be neither created or destroyed
gives me cause to think. I know our bodies replenish the earth after we die.
Why couldn't the energy of our spirit, what makes Us who we are, also move
on. I don't mean it in a touchy-feely religion bound way. More of a
something we haven't discovered yet scientifically way.

>>If it's true, that's not going to destroy my universe, but it doesn't need
>>to be true or false for me to function as well as I can with my kids. No
>>sense blaming them for being here.>>

It was never meant as blaming anyone. If my kids actually did choose me,
then I am the most blessed woman in the universe. And they know I feel that
way. If it was all a random act of a strong swimming sperm, I am no less
blessed.

~Mary


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In a message dated 1/12/02 4:02:00 PM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>I know it makes some people feel better to think that.>>

Just as it makes others feel better to think that it's all just random,
physical and scientifically explained. I don't adhere to either belief
system, but I'm open to discussing them. >>

It doesn't make me feel better, but clinging to things which have little
basis in evidential fact makes me feel creepy. I know tarot card readers
are sometimes in the business of telling people they spent previous lifetimes
with their current family members, or with someone they're about to meet.
Why? If each person is in the process of developing spiritually (which is
possible) there's not a good reason I've ever heard, except sentimentality on
the part of those who hope it's true, that it should be with the same people
again. Mathematically speaking, it doesn't seem likely, unless as also
sometimes seems the case, there are only a few thousand speaking parts in the
play and the other five billion and some are extras, or "new souls."

-=-I've often felt that my husband and I have have "danced this dance"
before.
There's nothing I could prove, it's just a feeling that floats in and out my
being once in awhile. Who's to say this guy didn't meet up with his iguana
before? It may be fun to giggle at him and believe him superstitious, but
that doesn't make him wrong.-=-

Deja vu is most likely a memory-mirage. It's fun when it happens, but it
isn't a pointer to time travel or anything. A mirage on the highway doesn't
make it possible that there WAS a puddle there, and getting there and finding
the dip in the pavement dry (and the mirage magically the same distance
ahead, showing as yet ANOTHER puddle) doesn't seem cause to me to say "It may
be fun to have believed it all a mirage, but that doesn't make those who saw
water wrong."

Maybe all mirages are really water.
Maybe all deja vu is premonition or memory of premonition, or proof that time
is swirly.
Maybe each feeling of comfortable knowing is proof of reincarnation.

Probably not.

So basing one's relations on mirages seems to me personally to be living not
in the present, living not even in the past or the future, but living in
speculation. Letting wishfulness guide one's decisions.

There's wishing and hoping in all things. I hope a bomb or plane or meteor
doesn't fall on my house. I don't live like it might be about to. Where
would I hide?

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>It doesn't make me feel better, but clinging to things which have little
>>basis in evidential fact makes me feel creepy.>>

So if one belief makes you feel creepy, then wouldn't it follow that
clinging only to that which can be proven by evidential fact makes you feel
better? Better than creepy, anyway. And why does allowing for the
possibility that there may be things we don't yet understand have to
indicate one is "clinging" to those ideas?

>>Mathematically speaking, it doesn't seem likely,>>

Not likely if our current understanding of mathematics is the complete
understanding. But mathematically speaking, it doesn't seem likely that
we've figured it all out yet.

>>Deja vu is most likely a memory-mirage. It's fun when it happens, but it
>>isn't a pointer to time travel or anything.>>

If it's "most likely" one thing, doesn't that leave open the *possibility*
that it could be another thing?

>>So basing one's relations on mirages seems to me personally to be living
>>not in the present, living not even in the past or the future, but living
>>in speculation. Letting wishfulness guide one's decisions.>>

Where did this idea come from? I don't think I suggested it in anything I've
written thus far. Personally, I find it possible to live mindfully and in
the present, and to also think about that which cannot be proven. I don't
see pondering the imponderables as letting wishfulness guide one's
decisions. But I'm also not out to convince anyone else that I have anything
all figured out. My path is mine alone, whether or not someone has joined me
before or not.

~Mary



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In a message dated 1/13/02 8:09:25 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>So basing one's relations on mirages seems to me personally to be living
>>not in the present, living not even in the past or the future, but living
>>in speculation. Letting wishfulness guide one's decisions.>>

<<Where did this idea come from? I don't think I suggested it in anything
I've
written thus far. >>

It came from my first statements, from prior discussions here and elsewhere,
from a lifetime of considering this'n'that.

I don't have a good way to indicate except to keep saying it occasionally
that I'm not responding to one single person's ideas or statements, but
talking about the ideas themselves.

Anyone living for heaven or a gypsy prophecy ten years away, or to grow up
and be real is missing the moment.

-=-Personally, I find it possible to live mindfully and in
the present, and to also think about that which cannot be proven. I don't
see pondering the imponderables as letting wishfulness guide one's
decisions. -=-

I don't either, but holding them out as equal possibilities, as it seems some
of the tales were doing, is something some people get attached to, fall into,
live in. The souls choosing their own new lives thing is a slice of the
marginal, not a big liklihood. Yet lots of people seem attached to the idea,
and seem to base their decisions on it. Souls being bound to one another
from past lives being a basis for life's decisions.

Sandra

Earth Witch

>
> >>It doesn't make me feel better, but clinging to
> things which have little
> >>basis in evidential fact makes me feel creepy.>>

But sometimes those things which are 'fact' are really
just theory and end up being false. Science is mostly
made up of theories based on collected evidence, but
the human factor is still involved. The scientists
opinion can, and in my opinion often does, persuade
the outcome of the study. One can 'prove' something
by only reporting evidence that is in line with their
thinking.

It seems to me that anything is possible. What we
know to be true today could be complete bunk in twenty
years because of new studies. Clinging to anything,
be it scientific 'fact', religious ideals, or
spiritual beliefs is unrealistic. Everything changes
and there is very little that we can say without a
doubt is fact.

Kitrina


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Tia Leschke

You've probably tried this, but if you haven't, it might help if done at
the right time.
Mum



>What I have been trying lately (when I can remember) is that whenever he
>is acting particulary *bad* I tell him, "I think you need a hug". He
>resists, because it is such an unnatural time for a hug when emotions are
>flying. But I pull him to me and hug him and he just melts into it and
>returns the hug back. Sometimes this is enough to diffuse any bad feelings
>on my part or his, and we can continue on with the day. Sometimes we talk
>about what might really be bothering him. Just showing and expressing that
>I love him even when he is at his worst does wonders. Something like this
>may work for you, too. Good luck.
>
>Karin
>
>
>
>
> Mary Hickman wrote:
>
>
> Hi all, Mary here in Davis, Ca. I've been busy with illness and broken
> computers and holiday etc. Glad to be back. My son is 5 today, hurray.
>
> I'm writing to get a little feedback. My 7 year old treats us family
> members
> like doo doo. She talks back, pretends to kick us, slams doors, yells,
> resists help many times each day... She is great out and about, makes
> friends easily. As for her home behavior, I've had enough of letting her
> express her feelings. She actually loves to joke too, the silly stuff,
> which
> I find sooooo iritating when I'm in need of a simple ok, lets do it, like
> brush teeth. To me, she is stuck in a mode and needs some alternatives.
> I am
> now finding myself threatning her with if you treat me and your brother
> poorly, no afternoon friends, (just a fancy go to your room, I can't take
> it). She would love to play with friends all day everyday. I find she
> treats
> us worse the more she is away by herself.
>
> Here is a simple example of her mode. Both kids have new cool electronic
> toys. Brother asks to play with her toy. NO she barks. I help pull him off
> her, respecting her no. Later he asks again. No she barks. Same scene. It
> happens again. Then she asks brother for a turn with his cool toy. Sure
> Ash.
> After she takes her very long turn, Riley asks for a turn with her toy. No
> she barks. I did insist she give him a turn this time.
> I do't get it. Then later, she let's all the neighborhood kids take as
> many
> and as long of turns as they want.
>
> Seems she has been festering this type of behavior since she was about 5.
> Did I mention we have a 2 year old too. Hubby and I wonder if this isn't a
> case of I want to be an only child. Or give me more attention. Seems
> that we
> do spend a ton of our time in Ashley's world. I'm looking for
> suggestions on
> how to help her see what she is doing hurts our feeling. Also ways to
> guide
> her towards better choices, yet I know she has to be the one to want to be
> kind. Talk to you all soon,
>
> Mary
>
>
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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Sharon Rudd

> Another primal thing is going on--they don't smell
> so good to me anymore.
> I'm assuming it's part of the separation phase.
> When there are several
> teenaged boys here, the others might smell earthy or
> slightly in need of a
> shower, but my own STINK. And Kirby takes a shower
> every day, so I'm
> thinking it's that he stinks to me more than to
> other people.


This holds true for papa's and stepdad's even more. DH
seemed to find the boy adolescents (my sons') VERY
offensive. To me they smelled no stronger (and were
often less) noticeable than his own "manly aroma".
Especially after engaging in hours of strenuous
activity during a muggy spell. He several times
complained about the smells emanating from their
rooms, when I could tell that it was only their
identifying scent, not lack of hygiene.

Even this shall pass.

SOS

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Tia Leschke

>You've probably tried this, but if you haven't, it might help if done at
>the right time.
>Mum

Oops. Meant to send that on to my daughter. <g>
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island