Rhonda

Hi. My name is Rhonda. I live in Missouri, and started homeschooling
my son,13, about a year ago. At first, I tried things from books, and
workbooks. I have found he is bored with that, and is learning more
by doing things he likes.
He has learned a lot about dinosaurs, and space. He is also very
interested in planes, monster trucks, and space shuttles. He builds
with legos a lot, and also has some other models he has put together.
I have him write in a journal about what he is doing, and about
whatever he feels like writing about.
My question is, how do I know if he is learning enough? Is there any
way to encourage his interests more? I live in a state where I am
supposed to document 1000 hours per school year of instruction, and
keep grades, or some alternative way of showing his progress. I
wonder how I can do that with him directing his studies. Any suggestions?
He seems less bored with what he is doing than he ever did with bookwork.
Thanks for any helpful suggestions.
Rhonda

[email protected]

<<Is there any way to encourage his interests more?>>

I would suggest stopping the required journaling. I love spending time with my animals, really LOVE spending time with my animals. I get lost in it and spend much more time than necessary on feeding, talking, grooming, training, medicating, etc.. It is something that is mine, that I can and do share with others but don't have to. I don't know that I would feel the same about it if someone else were reading about it. I might be more self-conscious that I was doing it "right" rather than doing what feels right to me. Just a thought.

Unschooling, in its current definition, means to live as though there were no such thing as school. To simply ignore that aspect of our society. Would you ask your son to journal if there was no such thing as school, if tomorrow (future test scores, college entrance) weren't where you were focused? Live for today, let today be fun and carefree and tomorrow really does take care of itself.

<<show progress>>

Do you remember when your son was very small and you took lots of pictures and made notes in his baby book? It didn't involve him at all. It was your joy to notice new things that he noticed, to help him reach things he couldn't quite reach by himself and then rejoicing with him when he finally got it independently. You can still do that. You can still have that enthusiasm in watching him grow and learn and you can document it without him being involved at all. Many, many unschoolers use portfolios to show progress to authorities.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Rhonda <msrhonda63@...>
Date: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:59 am
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] hi....new here

> Hi. My name is Rhonda. I live in Missouri, and started homeschooling
> my son,13, about a year ago. At first, I tried things from books, and
> workbooks. I have found he is bored with that, and is learning more
> by doing things he likes.
> He has learned a lot about dinosaurs, and space. He is also very
> interested in planes, monster trucks, and space shuttles. He builds
> with legos a lot, and also has some other models he has put together.
> I have him write in a journal about what he is doing, and about
> whatever he feels like writing about.
> My question is, how do I know if he is learning enough? Is there any
> way to encourage his interests more? I live in a state where I am
> supposed to document 1000 hours per school year of instruction, and
> keep grades, or some alternative way of showing his progress. I
> wonder how I can do that with him directing his studies. Any
> suggestions?He seems less bored with what he is doing than he ever
> did with bookwork.
> Thanks for any helpful suggestions.
> Rhonda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Carlisle Chafton

Hi Rhonda,
My name is Julie and we live in central Arkansas. You have to remember
that EVERYTHING they do is learning in some format or another!!!! Cooking
is math, reading and science. Teaching them how to use the ATM machine is
math and reading and money concepts. My 2 year old already helps gather
laundry and brings the little trash cans to empty into the big trash
cans. When we put the laundry away it becomes a catching game with the
socks, I throw them to my 2 year old and she throws them to her big
brother so they are both learning hand eye coordination. We do also read
a lot (I even got a Christmas card from the library because we check so
many things out!!! Videos as well as books.) There are a lot of
educational videos available like the NOVA series on PBS and Nature
videos, history of wars and ancient civilizations etc. My son is a very
visual learner so we watch a lot of learning videos and he doesn't even
miss regular TV. We have never watched cartoons unless they were learning
or religious cartoons or on PBS. We don't own a play station etc. and the
only games he has for the computer are actually teaching games like the
Jump Start series etc. Right now he is "playing" a 4th grade geometry cd.
We Un school so pretty much anything goes at our house. We do LOTS of
nature study and the kids garden with their Grannie. My son plays golf
with his Grandpa so that is PE as well as swimming hours every day during
the summer.

You just have to start rethinking everything you do and see it as a
learning tool. Believe me it gets easier as you go along taking advantage
of every situation to turn it into a learning experience. (I hated it
when I was a kid and my parents would say the standard lines of "because
I said so" or "because I'm the boss" instead of explaining what ever it
was I had a question to. I think people alienate their children when they
don't take the time to really connect with their kids and explain "Life"
to them. Children tend to grow up feeling resentment and anger towards
their parents when the parents don't "bother" to treat their children's
questions as something valid and worth explaining. The only stupid
question is the one that isn't asked!) It was really easy for me at
first to have that public school attitude of having to sit down and "do
your home work" but for us that just doesn't work all the time. (Don't
get me wrong, he does have to do work books and hand writing but I don't
force the issue and usually tell him if he wants to watch a non-learning
video he has to do at least 10 pages in one of his work books. More if it
is a really long movie. hee hee hee And I usually don't get the attitude
when we do it this way!) He can learn his times tables bouncing a ball
against the barn wall faster and easier than having to "sit still and
focus". It is amazing what he can remember when I make it fun or a game.
By 2 1/2 he knew how to say carbonation and knew it meant "bubbles in the
coke" and knew that the flashlight reflected off the windows at night and
that reflection also meant his image in the mirror. People don't realize
that just because a child cannot verbally communicate so that WE can
understand him, doesn't mean that they don't understand what is said to
them or what is going on around them. My baby will be 2 on the 18th of
February but already can follow a three part sentence of "go over there,
pick that up and put it away" of course I am more specific and tell her
exactly where and what to do but you get my meaning. She also knows quite
a few signs so she can communicate with her hands. This was really
helpful about a year ago and up to this point when she didn't have as
many verbal skills. But now she has about a 500 word vocabulary. Of
course Mommie is usually the only person who can understand and translate
but she is using so many new words on a daily basis it amazes me! She
also understands more and hears more than you think she would at this
age. (and repeats everything!!!) She was across the room from my husband
and I this morning and I told hubby with a lowered voice that they could
go down later while I was taking a nap and get the paper and yesterdays
mail. Well she dropped her toy and came running saying "ail ail" she
knows we usually drive the car to the mail box because it is about 1/4
mile away from the house and she loves going for a ride and wasn't going
to miss out! Especially since it was with her Daddy!

We are blessed to live in a state that has so much freedom to teach our
children. I am definitely learning too as we go along. I went to public
school until the end of 9th grade then transferred to a private Catholic
school for 10th thru 12th. But I seem to be learning A LOT of things that
either weren't taught or I just don't remember being taught. Our favorite
part of home schooling is the freedom to pursue whatever we want to
study. We love snuggling upon the couch with hot chocolate and a book or
educational video in the winter and doing most of our school work outside
when it is spring and summer. Try checking out 4H and your local
community center but also other town's community centers and home school
groups. I belong to at least 5 or 6 local groups within a 40 mile radius
and either get a news letter or and e-mail of what's going on and I have
quite a few "just e-mail" groups to get advice, support and adult
conversation! lol We drove 45 minutes the other day to another city that
was offering a FREE 3 to 4 hour archery class. I took my 10 year old son
and his 8 year old cousin and they both had a blast. Because we only had
gas expenses it was worth the trip and they boys learned quite a bit
(remember to always take snacks so you don't have to eat out unless that
is part of the treat too). We are lucky that so many of our small little
towns have their own group activities so we don't have to drive to far to
do things on a weekly basis. But that doesn't stop us from taking a road
trip when the time is right or it is really something cool we have been
wanting to do. Especially if it is free!!! lol

The greatest advice to newer home schoolers is cherish every single day
with your children even if you don't think you got anything done. They
grow up too fast! There is never enough time to learn everything that
there is to learn in the world, so don't worry about it. Like I said
before I am also learning so much more than I ever did in school. And if
I don't know we can always look it up on the Internet. It has been a
wealth of information that we have used so many many times from
everything to cooking recipes to how to make a catapult and everything in
between!

Hope this helps some.
Blessings,
Julie C.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:59:18 -0000 "Rhonda" <msrhonda63@...>
writes:
Hi. My name is Rhonda. I live in Missouri, and started homeschooling
my son,13, about a year ago. At first, I tried things from books, and
workbooks. I have found he is bored with that, and is learning more
by doing things he likes.
He has learned a lot about dinosaurs, and space. He is also very
interested in planes, monster trucks, and space shuttles. He builds
with legos a lot, and also has some other models he has put together.
I have him write in a journal about what he is doing, and about
whatever he feels like writing about.
My question is, how do I know if he is learning enough? Is there any
way to encourage his interests more? I live in a state where I am
supposed to document 1000 hours per school year of instruction, and
keep grades, or some alternative way of showing his progress. I
wonder how I can do that with him directing his studies. Any
suggestions?
He seems less bored with what he is doing than he ever did with bookwork.
Thanks for any helpful suggestions.
Rhonda






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Pamela Sorooshian

Hi Rhonda -

I've sent you some Missouri information, offlist, along with a
contact person who can give you Missouri-specific advice.

-pam


On Feb 12, 2006, at 12:59 AM, Rhonda wrote:

> Hi. My name is Rhonda. I live in Missouri, and started homeschooling
> my son,13, about a year ago. At first, I tried things from books, and
> workbooks. I have found he is bored with that, and is learning more
> by doing things he likes.
> He has learned a lot about dinosaurs, and space. He is also very
> interested in planes, monster trucks, and space shuttles. He builds
> with legos a lot, and also has some other models he has put together.
> I have him write in a journal about what he is doing, and about
> whatever he feels like writing about.
> My question is, how do I know if he is learning enough? Is there any
> way to encourage his interests more? I live in a state where I am
> supposed to document 1000 hours per school year of instruction, and
> keep grades, or some alternative way of showing his progress. I
> wonder how I can do that with him directing his studies. Any
> suggestions?
> He seems less bored with what he is doing than he ever did with
> bookwork.
> Thanks for any helpful suggestions.
> Rhonda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Pamela Sorooshian

> Do you remember when your son was very small and you took lots of
> pictures and made notes in his baby book? It didn't involve him at
> all. It was your joy to notice new things that he noticed, to help
> him reach things he couldn't quite reach by himself and then
> rejoicing with him when he finally got it independently. You can
> still do that. You can still have that enthusiasm in watching him
> grow and learn and you can document it without him being involved
> at all. Many, many unschoolers use portfolios to show progress to
> authorities.

For recordkeeping that doesn't intrude so much into unschooling, you
might want to have a look at the "Unschoolers Recordkeeping Form"
that I made up and put into the files area of this list <http://
groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/files/>.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 12, 2006, at 7:22 AM, jnjstau@... wrote:

> Many, many unschoolers use portfolios to show progress to authorities.

Right. And more and more are using blogs to keep records (with
photos, sometimes) of what they have done.

No journal, portfolio or blog, though, should be just about what your
son is doing while you watch, but should include things you did
together and things he did with other people.

If you go here and click on the unschooling blog ring link (lower
right) you can look at other unschooler's blogs. I think from that
page you can start your own blog too, if you don't already have one,
but there are other and lots of blog sites.
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com
Or you could start from one of these:


I have never had to keep records, but you will see some other blogs
that do more resemble documentation of busy unschooling lives.

Another place to look for inspiration is this collection of
descriptions of particular unschooling days from many families:

http://sandradodd.com/typical

Encourage his interests by taking interest in him and his interests,
and by sharing your interests too, and expanding in any direction,
and all directions.

Here are ideas for starting to go about that:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists

Someone just this week wrote something pretty wonderful for beginning
unschoolers:
http://sandradodd.com/beginning

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

> -=-You just have to start rethinking everything you do and see it as a
> learning tool. Believe me it gets easier as you go along taking
> advantage
> of every situation to turn it into a learning experience.-=-

==============

Try to *see* the learning without trying to turn ANY situation into a
learning experience.

That might seem a small tweak, but it's like standing at edge of
the grand canyon. If you have your back to the canyon you'll still
BE there, and you'll still see a lot of Arizona, but if you just
rotate 180 degrees right where you are, THEN you will "be" at the
Grand Canyon.

-=-My son is a very
visual learner so we watch a lot of learning videos and he doesn't even
miss regular TV. We have never watched cartoons unless they were
learning
or religious cartoons or on PBS.-=-

http://sandradodd.com/tv

If you have never watched cartoons unless they were "learning
cartoons," the advice to turn every situation into a learning
experience seems much smaller, because there is no cartoon that will
not be in some way "a learning cartoon." The most learning that
might happen with a cartoon at your house this year could be the mom
seeing cartoons and learning both in whole new ways.

-=-We don't own a play station etc. and the
only games he has for the computer are actually teaching games like the
Jump Start series etc. -=-

http://sandradodd.com/videogames

-=-My son plays golf
with his Grandpa so that is PE -=-

Depending what they talk about, it could be landscaping, botany,
history, physics...

-=-You just have to start rethinking everything you-=-

It definitely takes that.

-=-The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked!)-=-

I did a workshop on questions once with Richard Prystowsky, and he
suggested (if I remember correctly) that a stupid qustion was one to
which the questioner knew the answer, and just wanted to see if the
other person knew. Quizzes.

Sometimes a question the questioner could have figured out on his own
can be a bad question (It's not helpful to call things "stupid" if it
can be easily avoided).
Sometimes a question asked solely to keep a conversation going,
without any thought to whether it would be irritating to the other
person is a less-than-brilliant question.

To recite what others have said about questions without *really*
analyzing that in the light of unschooling and interpersonal
relationships isn't rethinking everything.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-(Don't
get me wrong, he does have to do work books and hand writing but I don't
force the issue and usually tell him if he wants to watch a non-learning
video he has to do at least 10 pages in one of his work books. -=-

He does not "have to"
You said "he does have to do workbooks..."
You said "he does have to do...handwriting."

Those statements are false.
You don't "have to" make him do those things, either.

http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto

When people live by choices, life gets better right then and there.
It's kind of like standing at the edge of the grand canyon. You
don't "HAVE TO" turn around, but...

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

> I don't
> force the issue and usually tell him if he wants to watch a non-
> learning
> video he has to do at least 10 pages in one of his work books. More
> if it
> is a really long movie. hee hee hee

When my oldest (now 19) was born, I went to La Leche League and
learned something that changed everything for me, as a mother.
They said "be your child's partner, not his adversary."

If a mother feels she is tricking her child, or laughs at his
struggle, or is making him earn privileges, she is not being his
partner. She is being his taskmaster and adversary. If a child can
only win by the mother losing (definition of an adversarial
relationship), frustration is ahead for both.

That behavior can be changed easily, without even leaving the place
you're standing.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

> The greatest advice to newer home schoolers is cherish every single
> day
> with your children even if you don't think you got anything done.
> They
> grow up too fast!


Too fast to spend any of that time on schoolwork.

-=-We love snuggling upon the couch with hot chocolate and a book or
educational video in the winter and doing most of our school work
outside
when it is spring and summer. -=-

There are thousands of better things to do outside than schoolwork,
and the relationship built between parents and children who share
learning experiences—REAL ones— is larger and deeper than any
curriculum in the world.

There will be time for schoolwork when you're dead, and if not...
well, you won't need it then anyway.

There is time for learning every moment, but that joy will die with
too much schoolwork (no matter where on your property you are when
the schoolwork is happening).

Sandra

Rhonda

Thanks. I am not unaware of the homeschool laws in MO, but unfamiliar
about managing the record keeping. I will try the info you sent
me....btw, I am in the St. Louis area. Thanks for the help.
Rhonda

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Rhonda -
>
> I've sent you some Missouri information, offlist, along with a
> contact person who can give you Missouri-specific advice.
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2006, at 12:59 AM, Rhonda wrote:
>
> > Hi. My name is Rhonda. I live in Missouri, and started homeschooling
> > my son,13, about a year ago. At first, I tried things from books, and
> > workbooks. I have found he is bored with that, and is learning more
> > by doing things he likes.
> > He has learned a lot about dinosaurs, and space. He is also very
> > interested in planes, monster trucks, and space shuttles. He builds
> > with legos a lot, and also has some other models he has put together.
> > I have him write in a journal about what he is doing, and about
> > whatever he feels like writing about.
> > My question is, how do I know if he is learning enough? Is there any
> > way to encourage his interests more? I live in a state where I am
> > supposed to document 1000 hours per school year of instruction, and
> > keep grades, or some alternative way of showing his progress. I
> > wonder how I can do that with him directing his studies. Any
> > suggestions?
> > He seems less bored with what he is doing than he ever did with
> > bookwork.
> > Thanks for any helpful suggestions.
> > Rhonda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Susan McGlohn

At 11:04 AM 2/12/2006, you wrote:

>My name is Julie and we live in central Arkansas. You have to remember
>that EVERYTHING they do is learning in some format or another!!!!

This is very true. And it doesn't have to be divided and categorized into
subjects. It is all learning. Let it just be cooking, carpentry, sewing,
playing, fishing, golf, archery, video games, ice cream sundaes.


> My son is a very
>visual learner so we watch a lot of learning videos and he doesn't even
>miss regular TV. We have never watched cartoons unless they were learning
>or religious cartoons or on PBS.

But you said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning in
some format or another!"


> We don't own a play station etc. and the
>only games he has for the computer are actually teaching games like the
>Jump Start series etc.


But you said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning in
some format or another!"

So why are you limiting his world to only the things *you* think are worthy
when it could be expanded far beyond where it is right now?


> Right now he is "playing" a 4th grade geometry cd.
>We Un school so pretty much anything goes at our house.

Except video games, computer games, tv, videos, playing freely
outside. You aren't unschooling. You are doing school-at-home.


> We do LOTS of
>nature study and the kids garden with their Grannie. My son plays golf
>with his Grandpa so that is PE as well as swimming hours every day during
>the summer.

There is no PE in unschooling. There is swimming and gardening and golf.


>It was really easy for me at
>first to have that public school attitude of having to sit down and "do
>your home work" but for us that just doesn't work all the time.

It doesn't work ANY OF THE TIME. You still have that public school
attitude if you are dividing your life and your children's lives into
subjects and are forcing them to do table-time or bookwork or handwriting.


> (Don't
>get me wrong, he does have to do work books and hand writing but I don't
>force the issue and usually tell him if he wants to watch a non-learning
>video he has to do at least 10 pages in one of his work books. More if it
>is a really long movie. hee hee hee And I usually don't get the attitude
>when we do it this way!)

But that is not unschooling. That is school-at-home. If he has to, then
you *are* forcing it. If he can't do what he wants until he has satisfied
your requirements for school, then you are not unschooling.

And you are using manipulative and coercive means to make him do it. That
isn't something to "hee hee hee" about. That is something to be ashamed of.

But you said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning in
some format or another!"

There is no attitude if children are free to choose. There is no power
struggle, no requirements, no hassle. Everything is worthy and right and
available.


> He can learn his times tables bouncing a ball
>against the barn wall faster and easier than having to "sit still and
>focus". It is amazing what he can remember when I make it fun or a game.

But that isn't unschooling. That is memorizing multiplication tables. Why
take something that is worthy in it's own right and try to make it
"educational"?

You said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning in some
format or another!"


>My baby will be 2 on the 18th of
>February but already can follow a three part sentence of "go over there,
>pick that up and put it away" of course I am more specific and tell her
>exactly where and what to do but you get my meaning.

Why is your baby having to do stuff like that? Couldn't you go pick it up
and put it away instead?


> We love snuggling upon the couch with hot chocolate and a book or
>educational video in the winter and doing most of our school work outside
>when it is spring and summer.

Why are you doing schoolwork at all? That is not unschooling. That is
school-at-home.

You said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning in some
format or another!"

We went to the park last spring and there was a family with 4 boys there,
as well as several children playing on the playground. Aaron was so
excited to see that there would be lots of playmates there. But the mom
said they couldn't play until they finished their schoolwork. So they sat
at the picnic table and did school workbooks for an hour, being redirected
back to their books if they stopped to watch the other kids having fun,
while the baby sister sat in her stroller. Every time the baby fussed she
got flicked on the leg.

How sad not to be able to enjoy the warm weather, to not be able to use
their bodies to run and jump and play, to use their minds to create an
imaginary world of pirates or Star Wars or Swiss Family Robinson or The
Jetsons, to not be able to interact with the other children and form
friendships and make teams and work co-operatively.

You said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning in some
format or another!"


>The greatest advice to newer home schoolers is cherish every single day
>with your children even if you don't think you got anything done. They
>grow up too fast! There is never enough time to learn everything that
>there is to learn in the world, so don't worry about it. Like I said
>before I am also learning so much more than I ever did in school.

Then why are you bringing school into your home? Let go of the workbooks
and handwriting and the educational videos. There is so much you are missing.


> And if
>I don't know we can always look it up on the Internet. It has been a
>wealth of information that we have used so many many times from
>everything to cooking recipes to how to make a catapult and everything in
>between!
>
>Hope this helps some.
>Blessings,
>Julie C.


I'm sure it helped to show how not to unschool. If this is your concept of
unschooling, then you need to read more, think more, and then read some
more. Read Sandra's site. Read John Holt. Read Joyce's website. Read
the archives at several different unschooling lists.

I am sorry this sounds like an attack. But if you bring school-at-home and
coercive parenting to an unschooling list and try to insist that it is what
it is obviously not, it needs to be pointed out. For your sake. For your
children's sake. For the other new unschoolers on the list's sakes.


Susan (VA)
http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rhonda

Thanks for all this information. Wow!! I am seeing this in a
different light. It isn't going to be hard to let him learn for
himself. The hard part will be to stop trying to "do school" the way
I was used to seeing it. He already wants to do things he likes.
Anyway, I am sure I have a lot more to learn too. Isn't that what the
"always learning" title is all about???
Rhonda

--- In [email protected], Susan McGlohn
<wifeto.vegman@...> wrote:
>
> At 11:04 AM 2/12/2006, you wrote:
>
> >My name is Julie and we live in central Arkansas. You have to remember
> >that EVERYTHING they do is learning in some format or another!!!!
>
> This is very true. And it doesn't have to be divided and
categorized into
> subjects. It is all learning. Let it just be cooking, carpentry,
sewing,
> playing, fishing, golf, archery, video games, ice cream sundaes.
>
>
> > My son is a very
> >visual learner so we watch a lot of learning videos and he doesn't even
> >miss regular TV. We have never watched cartoons unless they were
learning
> >or religious cartoons or on PBS.
>
> But you said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is
learning in
> some format or another!"
>
>
> > We don't own a play station etc. and the
> >only games he has for the computer are actually teaching games like the
> >Jump Start series etc.
>
>
> But you said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is
learning in
> some format or another!"
>
> So why are you limiting his world to only the things *you* think are
worthy
> when it could be expanded far beyond where it is right now?
>
>
> > Right now he is "playing" a 4th grade geometry cd.
> >We Un school so pretty much anything goes at our house.
>
> Except video games, computer games, tv, videos, playing freely
> outside. You aren't unschooling. You are doing school-at-home.
>
>
> > We do LOTS of
> >nature study and the kids garden with their Grannie. My son plays golf
> >with his Grandpa so that is PE as well as swimming hours every day
during
> >the summer.
>
> There is no PE in unschooling. There is swimming and gardening and
golf.
>
>
> >It was really easy for me at
> >first to have that public school attitude of having to sit down and "do
> >your home work" but for us that just doesn't work all the time.
>
> It doesn't work ANY OF THE TIME. You still have that public school
> attitude if you are dividing your life and your children's lives into
> subjects and are forcing them to do table-time or bookwork or
handwriting.
>
>
> > (Don't
> >get me wrong, he does have to do work books and hand writing but I
don't
> >force the issue and usually tell him if he wants to watch a
non-learning
> >video he has to do at least 10 pages in one of his work books. More
if it
> >is a really long movie. hee hee hee And I usually don't get the
attitude
> >when we do it this way!)
>
> But that is not unschooling. That is school-at-home. If he has to,
then
> you *are* forcing it. If he can't do what he wants until he has
satisfied
> your requirements for school, then you are not unschooling.
>
> And you are using manipulative and coercive means to make him do it.
That
> isn't something to "hee hee hee" about. That is something to be
ashamed of.
>
> But you said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is
learning in
> some format or another!"
>
> There is no attitude if children are free to choose. There is no power
> struggle, no requirements, no hassle. Everything is worthy and
right and
> available.
>
>
> > He can learn his times tables bouncing a ball
> >against the barn wall faster and easier than having to "sit still and
> >focus". It is amazing what he can remember when I make it fun or a
game.
>
> But that isn't unschooling. That is memorizing multiplication
tables. Why
> take something that is worthy in it's own right and try to make it
> "educational"?
>
> You said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning
in some
> format or another!"
>
>
> >My baby will be 2 on the 18th of
> >February but already can follow a three part sentence of "go over
there,
> >pick that up and put it away" of course I am more specific and tell her
> >exactly where and what to do but you get my meaning.
>
> Why is your baby having to do stuff like that? Couldn't you go pick
it up
> and put it away instead?
>
>
> > We love snuggling upon the couch with hot chocolate and a book or
> >educational video in the winter and doing most of our school work
outside
> >when it is spring and summer.
>
> Why are you doing schoolwork at all? That is not unschooling. That is
> school-at-home.
>
> You said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning
in some
> format or another!"
>
> We went to the park last spring and there was a family with 4 boys
there,
> as well as several children playing on the playground. Aaron was so
> excited to see that there would be lots of playmates there. But
the mom
> said they couldn't play until they finished their schoolwork. So
they sat
> at the picnic table and did school workbooks for an hour, being
redirected
> back to their books if they stopped to watch the other kids having fun,
> while the baby sister sat in her stroller. Every time the baby
fussed she
> got flicked on the leg.
>
> How sad not to be able to enjoy the warm weather, to not be able to use
> their bodies to run and jump and play, to use their minds to create an
> imaginary world of pirates or Star Wars or Swiss Family Robinson or The
> Jetsons, to not be able to interact with the other children and form
> friendships and make teams and work co-operatively.
>
> You said, "You have to remember that EVERYTHING they do is learning
in some
> format or another!"
>
>
> >The greatest advice to newer home schoolers is cherish every single day
> >with your children even if you don't think you got anything done. They
> >grow up too fast! There is never enough time to learn everything that
> >there is to learn in the world, so don't worry about it. Like I said
> >before I am also learning so much more than I ever did in school.
>
> Then why are you bringing school into your home? Let go of the
workbooks
> and handwriting and the educational videos. There is so much you
are missing.
>
>
> > And if
> >I don't know we can always look it up on the Internet. It has been a
> >wealth of information that we have used so many many times from
> >everything to cooking recipes to how to make a catapult and
everything in
> >between!
> >
> >Hope this helps some.
> >Blessings,
> >Julie C.
>
>
> I'm sure it helped to show how not to unschool. If this is your
concept of
> unschooling, then you need to read more, think more, and then read some
> more. Read Sandra's site. Read John Holt. Read Joyce's website.
Read
> the archives at several different unschooling lists.
>
> I am sorry this sounds like an attack. But if you bring
school-at-home and
> coercive parenting to an unschooling list and try to insist that it
is what
> it is obviously not, it needs to be pointed out. For your sake.
For your
> children's sake. For the other new unschoolers on the list's sakes.
>
>
> Susan (VA)
> http://radicalchristianunschool.homestead.com/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Andrea

<<<<<<<<<<<I'm sure it helped to show how not to unschool. If this is your
concept of
unschooling, then you need to read more, think more, and then read some
more. Read Sandra's site. Read John Holt. Read Joyce's website. Read
the archives at several different unschooling
lists.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I am sorry this sounds like an attack. But if you
bring school-at-home and
coercive parenting to an unschooling list and try to insist that it is what
it is obviously not, it needs to be pointed out. For your sake. For your
children's sake. For the other new unschoolers on the list's
sakes.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Julie, you may feel badly right now. After having had the noble and
enthusiastic intention of helping and contributing to a newcomer you got
some very honest and direct responses. This list is full of wisdom, and I
learned both from your original post and from the responses to it. I hope
you learn from the responses too, rather than feeling horrible/angry and
thereby not hearing their messages! Remember, as parents we are "always
learning" too!!!!

I am shedding many layers of school-ish conditioning I have. There are days
that I am quietly fearful, and suddenly find myself requiring my son to do
school-ish activities (I sometimes think I have a split personality...the
school-marm sneaks in through the back door of my mind without me noticing
until I see Tobin's look of dread!). This is very humbling for me, because
I have read Holt, I have read Sandra's work, and many others, and I thought
I grasped the philosophy at its core! I thought that that knowledge would
flow out freely with little or no hick-ups because I really believed in it
all and had conviction...but the reality is that it is a bumpy process for
me. I may be a beginner for a long time... (BTW, I am really enjoying the
unschoolingbasics group... [email protected])

Posting on this site is not for the faint at heart! It will probably be
questioned or made clear if you make comments/suggestions that do not
resonate with unschooling philosophy. (I do wish honesty could be gentler
sometimes...but would we hear the message???)

Andrea

Sandra Dodd

On Feb 12, 2006, at 9:28 PM, Rhonda wrote:

> I am seeing this in a
> different light. It isn't going to be hard to let him learn for
> himself.


You don't have to let him learn for himself. You can learn with
him! Just try to forget about the learning part when you can manage
to do so. <g>

Rent lots of DVDs together and let those be springboards for bringing
music into the house, or needing maps or history (just touch it,
don't STUDY it), or using IMDB.com or Amazon.com/s extensive lists
and cross-lists to find related movies, and you can be discussing all
KINDS of stuff in no time.

Let him do his own thing sometimes, but don't depend on that for his
whole "education." Spend more time with him doing things that you
both enjoy. Go more places, bring things into the house, visit
people, bring people into the house... Mix it up!

Sandra

Susan McGlohn

At 10:43 AM 2/13/2006, you wrote:


>Let him do his own thing sometimes, but don't depend on that for his
>whole "education." Spend more time with him doing things that you
>both enjoy. Go more places, bring things into the house, visit
>people, bring people into the house... Mix it up!
>
>Sandra


Here's an excerpt from Anne Ohman's Live and Learn conference talk that I
keep thumb-tacked to the wall above my computer:


*This is Where Unschooling Lives* talk:
****************************
From that place of knowing what's real and what's True as defined by my
children's hearts, I place my feet in the direction of the next right thing to
do and I move forward.



I find it extremely helpful to remember that this is actually my job
description
as an unschooling parent. To trust in my children.



In fact, here are some other things that I believe are in my job description:



· to help my children get what they need and desire in order to live a
joyful life;

· to nurture and encourage that which they love to do;

· to be a student of them, actually, and learn about them.learn from them
~ I have always loved being a student of my children;

· to learn about real learning, watching how the connections are made in
their lives from focusing on the Joy and allowing their lives and spirits to
unfold as they grow and learn.



It is my job to be the person who gives my children the freedom to really learn
by playing around with the world.



So if you find yourself unable to trust and if you're feeling the need to
control, make a conscious choice to change your job description!



Change it from being the controller of your children's lives to the one who
actively brings joy into their lives.



On our "This is Where Unschooling Lives" board, you'll see a bumper sticker
that
says, "How can I connect with my children today, expand their worlds, bring joy
into their lives, nurture and encourage what they love to do?"



I made that bumper sticker at the request of Anna, from the Shine list, who
told
me that she kept going back to those words that I once wrote. And I looked
again at it and thought, "That's it! Right there! That's my job description!"



Having those words on our board does the same for me as they do for Anna.they
put my job description right there in my sight every single day.



I check in on it periodically to make sure I'm fulfilling that which I feel is
my job as an unschooling parent. I make sure that I'm offering my children
more
than they would get in a classroom. I check on it and decide from there what
the next right thing to do is.
*******************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]