Nanci Kuykendall

> Yes, and some of us have children that could easily
carry one >of those labels, but we've chosen NOT to
define them any >differntly than any of our children.
> I understand there are some challenges you NEED
greater >insight for, but there are plenty of
unschoolers dealing with "atypical" children and
choosing not to separate them in >any way.

Ooooo, that's a hot topic among parents of "atypical"
or "special needs" or whatever different kids, or
audult auties/aspies. To Label or not to label. I
went back and forth on that issue myself for years and
finally decided to settle somewhere in the middle.

On the one hand, I *hate* labels, and I don't think
you can define people that way. On the other hand,
labels do exist, and there are some that do define us
(Mom, Unschooler, wife/partner, writer, are a few of
mine) but any one label does not define us wholly and
never can.

On the one hand a parent may not want to limit and box
in their kids, socially isolate them, make them feel
defective or the other possible pitfalls of labels.
On the other hand, having a child with challenges is
exhausting and really hard, and already socially
isolates you, and being able to have a common label
that helps connect you to others who are supportive
and understanding of those challenges is a great
benefit.

On the one hand these developmental labels in
particular are tricky, the things they define are
poorly understood and how they are defined and
diagnosed varies by region, and kids are subject to
change as they grow in unpredictable ways and so find
that previous labels don't seem to apply anymore. On
the other hand, without labels officiated by a
diagnosis therapies and many other things that hugely
assist these kids are just not available to us.

In our home we don't see our kids differences (or our
own) as handicaps or negatives. We embrace the word
"Autism" as a part of our individual and family
identity, and I certainly know other adult autistics
who feel/do the same. We recognize the possible
limiting factors or areas where we need to address
challenges as simply a part of us. I would no more
deny that I am short and slight of build or pale
skinned than to deny the part "autism" (or whatever
catchphrase can be used to describe that vast and
complex collection of behaviors and differences) plays
in who I am or who my children are. Denial is no more
helpful or healthy or beneficial in my opinion than
slapping a label on my forehead and allowing that to
define me wholly.

Thomas says He's "artistic" which is how he pronounces
autistic. He will sometimes pick up on someone else's
behaviors and say "Is he artistic like me?" Sometimes
it's in person or other times in movies/shows. Two
recent examples are the character Sam (Johnny Depp) in
the movie Benny and Joon and the chracter William
Forrester (Sean Connery) in the movie Finding
Forester. They both seem to obviously be high
functioning autistic to those of us who live and
breath it every day. So does Johnny Depp's portrayal
of Willy Wonka (which we love!) and Johnny Depp
himself for that matter, based on interviews I've seen
and his many movie roles. So does the cast of the tv
show Third Rock From the Sun.

At any rate, Thomas proudly tells people he's
"artistic" just as he proudly shares the names of the
family pets, or talks about his movies or other
passions. It's just part of him.

Nanci K.

Nancy Wooton

On Jan 6, 2006, at 3:13 PM, Nanci Kuykendall wrote:

> Thomas says He's "artistic" which is how he pronounces
> autistic. He will sometimes pick up on someone else's
> behaviors and say "Is he artistic like me?" Sometimes
> it's in person or other times in movies/shows.

My dd and I have been catching up with the past four seasons of "24"
recently, looking forward to Day 5 starting soon. I've wondered what
the specific "personality disorder," as it's been called, affects the
computer analyst character named Chloe O'Brien. She's embarrassingly
blunt and always says exactly what she means; for instance, a coworker
was self-deprecatingly thanking her by saying "I learned a lot from you
today." Her reply: "Yes, you did." ;-) She's a brilliant tech,
though. The character's "offness" makes her very interesting, and adds
to texture of the show.

Nancy

Gold Standard

>>I've wondered what
>>the specific "personality disorder," as it's been called, affects the
>>computer analyst character named Chloe O'Brien. <<

Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER. Never do with my
family, and frankly, don't even think that way with anyone...at least about
autism or Asperger's. It's just another personality type.

Now if someone was a serial axe-murderer, I might be thinking more DISorder.

Jacki

[email protected]

There are a specific group of diagnoses refered to as personality disorders, Antisocial Personality (criminal type), Schizoid Personality (very odd and detached), Borderline Personality (think Fatal Attraction). Autism and Aspergers fall into a different category called Developmental Disorders.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gold Standard <jacki@...>
Date: Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:24 am
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Labeling (was lots of input)

> >>I've wondered what
> >>the specific "personality disorder," as it's been called,
> affects the
> >>computer analyst character named Chloe O'Brien. <<
>
> Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER. Never do
> with my
> family, and frankly, don't even think that way with anyone...at
> least about
> autism or Asperger's. It's just another personality type.
>
> Now if someone was a serial axe-murderer, I might be thinking more
> DISorder.
> Jacki
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Kathleen Gehrke

--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@b...>
wrote:
>> Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER. Never
do with my
> family, and frankly, don't even think that way with anyone...at
least about
> autism or Asperger's. It's just another personality type.
This is such and interesting thread for me. I recently had a friend
visit from Arizona. She is a therapist and I love her dearly. After
spending about three hours at my house she suggested I get my
youngest daughter tested. She told me she was sure she had FAS. I
have met my daughters b family and she definately has some genetic
stuff, but who does not.. And I am sure she doesn't , have FAS that
is...
Anyway she then went through possible diagnosis of disorders for my
daughter. Who by the way is one of my favorite people on the
planet... I asked her what the point was of getting diagnosies? I
explained to her how there is no way I would chose to make her any
different than who she is. How she is so beautiful and unique to me
that somehow a label would be diminishing and dishonoring to her
individuality. She said a label would give me specific things that
would help her. It seems to me that natural learning and parenting
from a place of instinct is the most helpful thing I could do. I
could see how if you are following a standard parenting philosphy
and lifestyle a label would be of assistance. You have somewhat shut
your instincts off.. But living a whole life means not judging but
assisting your child in living his or her own whole life.
So ultimately instead of hurting my feelings with her comments it
only strengthened my resolve that our current life and course were
on and right for us.
Thanks for the thread that let me get all that out.
kathleen

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 8, 2006, at 9:24 AM, Gold Standard wrote:

> >>I've wondered what
> >>the specific "personality disorder," as it's been called, affects
> the
> >>computer analyst character named Chloe O'Brien. <<
>
> Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER.

=============================

There were TWO disclaimers in the top question, though--the quotation
marks and the phrase "as it's been called."

Chloe is definitely disordered. Her personal quirks have caused more
problems than they've solved. It makes for interesting drama, and
we'll see how they treat her character this season, but the idea that
she would be managing people is somewhere between unwise and
unrealistic. People's talents and skills should be matched to their
jobs. Someone without spatial reasoning and kinesthetic intelligence
should NOT be driving a big truck. Someone who says "it's just
semantics" when she's not understanding someone else's objection to a
phrase should NOT be an editor, speechwriter or playwright. In the
field of writing, an inability to distinguish between synonyms would
be a disability. In the driving of umpty-ton trucks and heavy
equipment, lack of spatial reasoning would be a disability.

I have a friend who went into med school and couldn't stand to see a
living thing cut. Couldn't stand to see the insides of a person who
wasn't dead. That was the end of medical school. It wasn't "a
personality disorder" but it did disable her potential to be a surgeon.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 8, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Kathleen Gehrke wrote:

> She told me she was sure she had FAS. I
> have met my daughters b family and she definately has some genetic
> stuff, but who does not..


FAS isn't genetic stuff, though. It's damage to the fetus from the
mother's continued drinking through pregnancy.

When I was nineteen, my mom told me she thought she had cirrhosis of
the liver because he abdomen was swollen and she felt ill, but she
was afraid to go to the doctor. When she went, she was five months
pregnant. So for the first five months she drank without pause, and
when she found out she celebrated, and she continued to drink and was
out drinking the night she went into labor.

My brother has some definite FAS traits. He has trouble organizing
thoughts and has QUITE a faulty conscience. Those are related
things. He can know three things and not correlate them. He can
know what time he needs to be somewhere, and what he needs to wear,
and not figure out that he needs to start the laundry early enough
and not tell someone else he can meet them during the same time he's
already committed to be elsewhere. Pretty much, someone has to
organize his life for him, or he just gets more and more entangled in
his own incompetence. He's not a kid, he's grown, and his lack of
conscience causes him to be a danger to others.

It's worth reading about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome just so you have some
information on the side. It's not something adoption and lots of
love can overcome entirely. You can surely focus on not making
anything worse, but if it's true that her mother drank, she might
have two problems you shouldn't ignore: FAS and the genetic
disposition to become an alcoholic herself. Whether that's a
psychological (brain chemical) or physical (blood chemical)
disposition, or whether those can even be separated, is not
definitely sorted out but it will affect her for life IF she has one
or both of those.

No sense joining another group about it or changing your unschooling.
<g> But it's too real to totally disregard. Maybe she has none of
either.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathleen Gehrke

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@S...> wrote:
>
>
>> FAS isn't genetic stuff, though. It's damage to the fetus from
the
> mother's continued drinking through pregnancy.
>
Sandra,
I know abou FAS.. That is why I am sure that is not what she has going
on. She is about ten miles ahead of her B mom. Who did not drink when
she was pregnant. What she has going on is genetic, not because of
alcohol.
I am sorry I was not clear. Thanks for sharing about your brother. I
have children who have FAE traits. I am not saying it is good to stay
ignorant and not know possibilities. I am saying that labels are not
necessary. I used to follow developmental guidelines for my kids. Now
I am aware what the guidelines are and I look at my child
individually. I hope that was more clear.
:]
Kathleen

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 8, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Kathleen Gehrke wrote:

> used to follow developmental guidelines for my kids. Now
> I am aware what the guidelines are and I look at my child
> individually. I hope that was more clear.

-----------

It was! Thanks. <g>

If someone had adopted my brother, I would hate for them to blame
themselves for all his problems in the longrun, and feel that if
they'd just done something different, better, other, that he would be
more whole. Yes, my mom did some more damage to him over the course
of years, but so much of who he is was determined at conception and
birth...

He's my half brother. I lucked out with the genetics of a non-
alcoholic father. He did not. So where I had one alcoholic
grandparent and one parent, he had two alcoholic parents and at least
two (maybe there) grandparents.

I hope within a few generations people figure out what to do about
that. Prohibition doesn't solve it. Religion doesn't solve it.
(The "practicing alcoholism" I mean...)

Sandra

Gold Standard

>>It's worth reading about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome just so you have some
>>information on the side.<<

A great use of a label...to read up on it. I so agree with this. Having a
label to look into helped us tremendously. This can SO help our children
when we feel isolated or at a loss and can't seem to get help through our
typical resources...

>>No sense joining another group about it or changing your unschooling.
>><g><<

I realize that you say this with a grin Sandra, but why on earth would we
not join a group that has specific information about our situation?
Especially if it contains info on TWO of our situations...unschooling and
whatever? And "changing" my unschooling has been imperative over the
years...as my children grew and changed, as I learned more about their needs
and wants. More info, more perspectives, more lists have made me a better
unschooling parent.

>>But it's too real to totally disregard.<< (talking about Fetal Alcohol
Syndrome)

And this I agree with as well. It can be a statement that relates to so many
conditions/situations...they are too real to disregard. Disregarding them
would be to disregard a part or a whole of a child.

Just some thoughts sparked by these posts...
Thanks,
Jacki

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd Sandra@...


I hope within a few generations people figure out what to do about
that. Prohibition doesn't solve it. Religion doesn't solve it.
(The "practicing alcoholism" I mean...)

-=-=-

There's some early indication that Topomax, a drug that Ben used to push, can help alcoholism.

It's still under research, but there's some evidence that it is a possible positive side-effect.

~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 8, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Gold Standard wrote:

> I realize that you say this with a grin Sandra, but why on earth
> would we
> not join a group that has specific information about our situation?
> Especially if it contains info on TWO of our
> situations...unschooling and
> whatever?

==================

If a person is pretty sure her child doesn't have a syndrome, reading
some of the definitions might be all the information she needs for
the rest of her life.

If a person is pretty sure her child DOES have a syndrome, the
principles of unschooling would quite likely cover her being
respectful and accepting and patient and providing stimulation HE
likes and understands, and it wouldn't be necessary to associate
herself with people who have self-identified themselves as Parents Of
A Child With THAT.

If the mother does that, the child becomes that, at least in the
mom's mind. She has made decisions based on his being that. She has
taken action daily based on his being that thing (whatever it is).

If it doesn't bother you at all and you see no downside, that's
fine. I decided many years ago to avoid labels when possible, and I
decided many years ago to help others see that there is the option to
avoid labelling. God and everybody knows you can label kids. Who
will say "You don't have to"?

Without a choice, there is no choice. Without knowing options, a
person cannot make a choice.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 8, 2006, at 3:33 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

> There's some early indication that Topomax, a drug that Ben used to
> push, can help alcoholism.
>
> It's still under research, but there's some evidence that it is a
> possible positive side-effect.

================

VERY cool.
Lots of otherwise good people have fallen to that addiction and
messed up the lives of spouses, children, parents, neighbors, sober
drivers minding their own business, forests that might not otherwise
have been set afire, etc.....

Sandra

Jo

Sometimes a label can be helpful so that a parent doesn't get worried
when a child's peers can do x, y, or z and child doesn't.

Personally, I have a child (age 4 1/2) who seems to be "behind" (for
lack of a better term) his peers and kids younger than him and I'm
trying to figure out if there is something different about him and if
there is something I can do to make things easier for him.

So far, it's not totally holding him back. He's pretty much a happy
kid and enjoys life. If there is a delay or something it's only slight.

But to know what can be done to help him as he gets older to relate to
his peers, that would be a gift. A label, in his case, would help with
that I think.

I don't even consider something wrong with him, just different. He may
be "behind" his peers but he has strengths and gifts that are very
special.

Hope I'm being clear as the whole situation personally is so very
unclear at the moment.

I welcome any advise as to figuring out what is different.

Jo in Indiana

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 8, 2006, at 4:01 PM, Jo wrote:

> I don't even consider something wrong with him, just different.

He's not different from himself.
He's not different from other kids in that ALL children learn in
their own time and in their own way.

-=-
I welcome any advise as to figuring out what is different.-=-

Are you sure that's the advice you want?
How about advice figuring out what is the same as other children?
Unschooling will work for your child the way it works for any child.

If you decide you really only do want advice to figure out how he's
different, it would be better for you to take it to another list.

Sandra

Nancy Wooton

On Jan 8, 2006, at 8:24 AM, Gold Standard wrote:

>>> I've wondered what
>>> the specific "personality disorder," as it's been called, affects the
>>> computer analyst character named Chloe O'Brien. <<
>
> Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER.

Neither would I , and I didn't, which is why it was in quotes -- a
character on the show did. I think he said something like "I don't
have time to deal with your personality disorder today."

Nancy

> Never do with my
> family, and frankly, don't even think that way with anyone...at least
> about
> autism or Asperger's. It's just another personality type.
>
> Now if someone was a serial axe-murderer, I might be thinking more
> DISorder.
>
> Jacki

Jo

I am sure unschooling will be great for him, that's not my concern at
all.

Just trying to explain how sometimes a label could be helpful. Sorry
if I wasn't clearer.

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@S...>
wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2006, at 4:01 PM, Jo wrote:
>
> > I don't even consider something wrong with him, just different.
>
> He's not different from himself.
> He's not different from other kids in that ALL children learn in
> their own time and in their own way.
>
> -=-
> I welcome any advise as to figuring out what is different.-=-
>
> Are you sure that's the advice you want?
> How about advice figuring out what is the same as other children?
> Unschooling will work for your child the way it works for any child.
>
> If you decide you really only do want advice to figure out how
he's
> different, it would be better for you to take it to another list.
>
> Sandra
>

Gold Standard

Hi Jo,

I think one thing that is very important with our children is to first see
them exactly as they are, and relish in that. Admire that. Love that.
Labels, advice, suggestions, books, websites, etc., can never change that.
How does your son shine? That is a place to truly nourish by providing
materials/attention/admiration/trips etc. for. Whatever label might fit your
child in no way says a word about who he is individually...it won't change
the incredible being that he is. I know you know this but before I wrote
another word, I wanted to be clear that I think this is key.

I have four children. I knew that two of them were in a different place than
*most* children "developmentally". It truly didn't matter because we weren't
in situations that judged kids, or categorized them, like in a classroom. If
you are considering unschooling now at your son's young age, there probably
is no need to get a diagnosis for him (and it is VERY easy to get diagnoses
in general, so trusting the diagnosis is another story too). Stay in the
moment with him and see where he shines. That is what he will really need.

So the question is why do you want a diagnosis.

If you are looking for a pool of information that may help you unlock some
ways to best facilitate the best life possible for your son, then maybe you
could google some of his traits and see what comes up. You would be doing
this for YOU, to see if there are things you hadn't thought of for your
particular guy.

If you find something that seems to fit, I would recommend never for a
second disconnecting from your son with the thought that "there is something
wrong with him". As has been said, we are all different in a gazillion ways,
and there is little to nothing wrong with most of us, even though some of us
could fall under some diagnosis.

That said, it is much easier for me to communicate with some people about my
son using the term "autistic". It eliminates having to go through a myriad
of personality traits that are common with most autistic folks, and takes me
a much shorter time to move on to whatever the point of the communication
is. If you find that your son has similar characteristics to some diagnosis,
then it may help in communication sometimes.

I would not convey a label to your son. It wasn't until my oldest was 15
that we ever said the word "autistic" TO him. He knew something was very
"different" about him from his friends, he had all these struggles that he
saw his siblings and *friends* (he didn't really have bona fide friends till
this year...he thought if he knew someone, they were his friend...he's 17
now)and he asked questions of us. My husband, who had himself evaluated for
his own sanity when he was 50 or so, thought ds would appreciate having
information about Asperger's. So it kinda came from my son, when we actually
shared a label with him...not give him a label perse, but shared information
with him. And it turned out to be a good thing for him.

So I recommend being very conscientious of what you do with a label or
diagnosis...it shouldn't be a downer in any way, just a way to get more
information, or in some cases, to get services from the state. And at some
point, it may help your son in getting information as well.

I haven't edited this email like I usually do, but wanted to get this out
before I had to run with one of my guys.

Warmly,
Jacki





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Jo
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Labeling (was lots of input)


Sometimes a label can be helpful so that a parent doesn't get worried
when a child's peers can do x, y, or z and child doesn't.

Personally, I have a child (age 4 1/2) who seems to be "behind" (for
lack of a better term) his peers and kids younger than him and I'm
trying to figure out if there is something different about him and if
there is something I can do to make things easier for him.

So far, it's not totally holding him back. He's pretty much a happy
kid and enjoys life. If there is a delay or something it's only slight.

But to know what can be done to help him as he gets older to relate to
his peers, that would be a gift. A label, in his case, would help with
that I think.

I don't even consider something wrong with him, just different. He may
be "behind" his peers but he has strengths and gifts that are very
special.

Hope I'm being clear as the whole situation personally is so very
unclear at the moment.

I welcome any advise as to figuring out what is different.

Jo in Indiana








Yahoo! Groups Links

Gold Standard

> Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER.

>>Neither would I , and I didn't, which is why it was in quotes -- a
character on the show did.<<

Oh I knew that...I wasn't meaning to say that you said it. It was said on
the show and is what sparked my response.

Jacki

Jo

--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@b...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Jo,
>
> I think one thing that is very important with our children is to
first see
> them exactly as they are, and relish in that. Admire that. Love
that.
> Labels, advice, suggestions, books, websites, etc., can never
change that.
> How does your son shine? That is a place to truly nourish by
providing
> materials/attention/admiration/trips etc. for. Whatever label might
fit your
> child in no way says a word about who he is individually...it won't
change
> the incredible being that he is. I know you know this but before I
wrote
> another word, I wanted to be clear that I think this is key.

Oh I agree! That's why I want to be clear that I see his difference
as not being something wrong. It's more like a gift, you know?

>>
> So the question is why do you want a diagnosis.
>
> If you are looking for a pool of information that may help you
unlock some
> ways to best facilitate the best life possible for your son, then
maybe you
> could google some of his traits and see what comes up. You would be
doing
> this for YOU, to see if there are things you hadn't thought of for
your
> particular guy.
>

Ok, that is more what I was looking for. (Also why I didn't post a
lot of specifics.)

If you find that your son has similar characteristics to some
diagnosis,
> then it may help in communication sometimes.

That would be the main reason for a diagnosis in this case, too.
Well, that and trying to help find other ways of making the most of
his gift.


> So I recommend being very conscientious of what you do with a label
or
> diagnosis...it shouldn't be a downer in any way, just a way to get
more
> information, or in some cases, to get services from the state. And
at some
> point, it may help your son in getting information as well.

I agree completely. Thank you, I sometimes have a problem being clear
in forums like this and I'm glad you were able to decipher what I was
looking for.

Thanks again!

Jo in Indiana

Kathleen Gehrke

> I think one thing that is very important with our children is to
first see
> them exactly as they are, and relish in that. Admire that. Love that.
> Labels, advice, suggestions, books, websites, etc., can never change
that.
> How does your son shine? That is a place to truly nourish by
providing
> materials/attention/admiration/trips etc. for. Whatever label might
fit your
> child in no way says a word about who he is individually...it won't
change
> the incredible being that he is. I know you know this but before I
wrote
> another word, I wanted to be clear that I think this is key.
>
I love that.. I agree that is the key.
Kathleen
Who loves that each of us does march to their own drummer.. If we are
allowed.

multimomma

Well, my daughter isn't an axe-murderer, but I would definitely say that some of her
autistic traits are a disorder. Personality differences don't explain biting the skin off of
your hands or banging your head till it bleeds. Granted, it's a subset of her autism,
probably the sensory integration dysfunction, but those behaviors are (how did Sandra put
it?) where the quirks cause more problems than they solve? That's the disorder.

We told Josh about his aspergers when we found out. Why? Because he was already so
stressed out about the trouble he had functioning anywhere. He didn't understand why he
couldn't handle noises like other people, crowds like others, he couldn't finish a project no
matter how hard he tried. He was always the first person to need to leave a party. His
communication skills had strangers concerned, he had people turn around and walk away
while he was talking. He had a lot of anger and depression that he was internalizing.
Knowing a name for his difference made a huge difference for him.

For Breanna's siblings, it made a difference for them because her behaviors scared them
(or made them angry when she ruins their toys or we skip a party or such). They were
scared that they could lose control and hurt themselves or others. They've always known
she was autistic, they've been around many autistic children and adults, and they
understand it's a spectrum of differences. Sometimes it's more like Josh, and sometimes
more like Bre. It's definitely increased their compassion, and they understand differences
better than most I know.

Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@b...> wrote:

> Now see, I would never use the term personality DISORDER. Never do with my
> family, and frankly, don't even think that way with anyone...at least about
> autism or Asperger's. It's just another personality type.
>
> Now if someone was a serial axe-murderer, I might be thinking more DISorder.

Gold Standard

>>I would definitely say that some of her
>>autistic traits are a disorder.<<

I certainly see what you are saying Melissa. It is a very challenging kind
of thing to figure out with our children.

It sounds like for your children sharing the label with them was what they
needed at an earlier age than what we did here. That's a great example of
listening to our individual children for what they need.

I hate the word disorder because it has an automatic negative connotation.
Yes, a child may bang her head or bite through skin, but the same child also
shines in many ways. Focusing on the shine is what she really needs us to
do. What are her passions...what does she love to do?

And we can usually lessen the out of sync behaviors over time as we work to
avoid the triggers. It's a lot of work, extra work, I know. And usually our
kids lessen and lessen the "atypical" behaviors as we help them assimilate
in the world, over time.

But the important thing is that our children do shine...maybe they aren't
meant to be at parties right now, or in large crowded settings...but so
what? Keep them out of those settings, or if they choose to go to a party be
ready to leave the second they want/need to go, even if it is one minute
after you arrive. Having children with "atypical" needs is not a problem, it
just means we have to be ready and willing to fulfill THEIR unique needs in
any moment, even if it means we feel embarrassed or no one around us quite
gets it. We are serving our children, not those other people around us.

Side question: What is the number of people needed to have a certain
condition labeled "disorder" before we start to see them as a completely
normal part of our population? Not disordered people, but unique to who they
are?

Thanks,
Jacki

multimomma

Well, and something I meant to post last night, but ran out of steam (kids are sleeping,
why am I NOT!? LOL!)

I posted a few of the negative traits, and I certainly hate to give the impression that those
traits are what we focus on in our home. That's far from the truth! In fact, we are focussed
on what each of our children are capable of doing and what they are interested in, so that
we can build on those skills and help them become more comfortable in the world. If it
wasn't for Breanna's trouble in the ps, I don't know that I'd ever reached the point that I
did. Because we don't qualify for any assistance and our insurance covers no therapy, I was
doing all of her therapy myself. And it came to the point where I suddenly realized
(epiphany moment) that school is not helping my children, it's hurting them...the
professionals know no more than I do about my children and their 'disAbilities'...and what
they needed was to be home with people who love them, care about them, and can
honestly say that they were available to help.

We have been keeping our kids out of stressful settings. However, that's not always
functional. What we have done is keep track of what they are capable of, and adjust.
Breanna loves the mall, just not with people in it. So we get up early and go when it's just
the elderly walkers. She likes to buy groceries, but cannot walk through the front door at
Walmart...so we go to other stores OR if I'm really hankering for the deal on apples, we'll
enter and exit through automotive. She loves McD's french fries, so that's incentive
enough to deal with obnoxious screaming toddlers. ;-) Slowly she's making her own
supports to deal with things she doesn't like, so she can do what she likes. What's more
functional than that?

I am so glad for parents who get *it* early. It took so many wasted years for me to
understand that my kids should be at home where they are comfortable. Same with the
potty training, aparenting, etc...why did it take me so many kids to understand? Well,
we're going to the store to buy more glycerin and molds for soap. They are really enjoying
this...and they are cleaner than they've been in a long time!

Melissa

--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@b...> wrote:
> And we can usually lessen the out of sync behaviors over time as we work to
> avoid the triggers. It's a lot of work, extra work, I know. And usually our
> kids lessen and lessen the "atypical" behaviors as we help them assimilate
> in the world, over time.
>
> But the important thing is that our children do shine...maybe they aren't
> meant to be at parties right now, or in large crowded settings...but so
> what? Keep them out of those settings.