[email protected]

Hi All,

I read the post about renting one of those "bouncy things"...out loud to my 6 and 8 year old sons......Why I'm not sure...I guess I don't like the feelings I get when spending so much money on our bday parties but i also see the joy in their eyes too.....but the whole consumerism idea eats at me...anyway, in immediate response to my read aloud ...my 6 y/o son said " Hey mom, one day can we rent one of those things for just a regular day and not just on our birthdays b/c they're SO fun?"

Food for thought I wanted to share.....warning : I have not read the rest of the posts yet......

Lisa

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Sandrewmama

This year I broke with tradition and gave my daughter her dream party
for her eighth birthday. She'd wished for a swimming party (in
November in the midwest) and a surprise party! I made arrangements
to rent a poolside hotel room and planned her surprise party! It was
amazing to see the look on her face when she walked into the hotel
pool with her daddy (thinking that he was meeting a client there to
drop off some job) and 12 of her closest friends jumped out and
shouted "SURPRISE!" She was stunned! The kids swam and swam and
swam and ate pizza and cake and swam some more. The hotel cut me a
deal, $20 off the regular room cost because it was a Sunday night.
We held the party around the pool, we had it to ourselves and I
didn't have to clean my house! In all, I calculated that my cost
wasn't any more than if I'd held the party at home because I would've
had the expenses of games and prizes and decorations and I would've
felt compelled to send the kids home with fancier goody bags. But,
since I was providing the kids with lots of free swimming time in
November, I figured a beach ball and a little bit of candy was fair
enough! Zoe loved her party and swimming with all her friends and I
heard good reviews from the kids and parents who attended!

Chris in IA
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IAUnschoolers/

On Jan 3, 2006, at 9:14 AM, <janclan@...>
<janclan@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I read the post about renting one of those "bouncy things"...out
> loud to my 6 and 8 year old sons......Why I'm not sure...I guess I
> don't like the feelings I get when spending so much money on our
> bday parties but i also see the joy in their eyes too.....but the
> whole consumerism idea eats at me...anyway, in immediate response
> to my read aloud ...my 6 y/o son said " Hey mom, one day can we
> rent one of those things for just a regular day and not just on our
> birthdays b/c they're SO fun?"
>
> Food for thought I wanted to share.....warning : I have not read
> the rest of the posts yet......
>
> Lisa

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 3, 2006, at 7:14 AM, <janclan@...>
<janclan@...> wrote:

> the whole consumerism idea

I still think this anti-stuff attitude is some sort of puritanical
thing. I think it is magical thinking that comes from fear - exactly
like anti-tv or anti-videogame thinking.

What the heck is wrong with enjoying STUFF?

What are parents so afraid of that they act unnecessarily stingy with
their kids?

I am an economist and I know a lot about the roots of the anti-
consumerism movement - starting with Karl Marx and Thorstein Veblen,
etc. I understand all the arguments. I understand conspicuous
consumption, for example. I understand how people come to associate
their status in life with what products they buy, what label clothing
they wear, etc. I GET all that. I understand how people in the United
States consume more than our fair share of the world's resources. I
know all about this whole thing. I've participated in studies of
"simplicity/simple living." I'm all in favor of less stuff in order
to simplify our lives and have more time for walks in the woods, etc.

But what I don't see is that parents being GENEROUS with their
children is what leads to the negative side of consumerism. It is the
opposite, it is parents who focus on "things" and care about their
social status based on "things" and who treat their children like
"products" who end up caught in the negatives of consumerism. For
these people, they never really totally ENJOY the stuff they're
buying, they buy and buy in order just to HAVE stuff to show off.

But when a kid wants a wonderful exciting happy birthday party with a
bounce house - that kid is NOT status-seeking or engaging in
conspicuous consumption or excessive consumerism - he/she is simply
LOVING LIFE!

I think parents are so afraid of messing up their kids that they hope
that by withholding things (not allowing tv or videogames, not
letting kids have things they want) that they'll sort of earn some
kind of safety or security.

Harry Potter's awful cousin, Dudley, counts his gifts and throws a
tantrum because he thinks he's been shorted one. If your kid is doing
THAT, then maybe you have something to worry about.

I think parents are afraid that kids will get to be like Dudley if
they give the kids too much stuff. But that's really not the case at
all - it is that parents SUBSTITUTE the stuff for real relationships
- it is because parents, themselves, act like a person's value is
based on the labels they wear and what kind of car they drive and so on.

If we want our kids to BE generous people, we ought to be generous
with them.

We can be thoughtful consumers and still be generous - those are not
necessarily contradictory.

-pam




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

What a GREAT idea! Did you tell the hotel that you were having a
bunch of kids as guests? Did they charge for that or ??

-pam


On Jan 3, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Sandrewmama wrote:

> I made arrangements to rent a poolside hotel room and planned her
> surprise party!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:

> -=-Harry Potter's awful cousin, Dudley, counts his gifts and throws a
> tantrum because he thinks he's been shorted one. If your kid is doing
> THAT, then maybe you have something to worry about.-=-

-=-
I think parents are afraid that kids will get to be like Dudley if
they give the kids too much stuff.-=-



Rowling's characterizations of Harry and Dudley certainly do convey
that message.
Ron Weasley is quite excited to get ANYthing, because of his
deprivation. So Ron "appreciates" what he has.

They are characters straight from modern parenting mythology.

Sandra

nellebelle

Two of our neighbors bought giant waterslides last spring. It hooks up to a fan to inflate and your hose for water. We got to use one for Jackie's 10th birthday in August. All the kids had a BLAST! These types of toys (water slides, bounce houses) are more fun with other kids to enjoy it with.

We also had water balloon play and a food fight (outdoors in swimsuits) with a big pot of thin, cooled oatmeal. Another big hit.

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandrewmama

On Jan 3, 2006, at 12:30 PM, Pamela Sorooshian wrote:

> What a GREAT idea! Did you tell the hotel that you were having a
> bunch of kids as guests? Did they charge for that or ??
>
> -pam


I did! I asked them if they had a policy covering how many guests a
hotel guest could bring into the pool. They told me that the only
policy they had was that there could be no more than eight people in
our hotel room at a time. That was no problem because our room was
pool-side and guests used it solely for changing clothes (and one mom
and young child recovered from a scary swimming incident in privacy
in there). The hotel happily allowed food and our large group
gathering around their pool. Guests could enter the pool area
directly off the lobby of the hotel without a room key. IT was ideal!

They didn't charge anything beyond the room charge ($79 for a double
plus yummy complimentary continental breakfast in the a.m.) If other
guests had wanted to swim we would not have had the pool all to
ourselves but the hotel was relatively empty on a Sunday night. Our
party was fun but not crazy or extremely loud so other guests
could've enjoyed the pool if they'd wanted.


Chris in IA
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IAUnschoolers/

Liz in AZ

Pam, your post helped solidify an almost-idea that was rattling
around in my mind:

Vilifying "things" (or TV, or video games, or even school) is really
very close to glorifying them. It isn't a straight continuum with
vilification at one "end", glorification at the other, and balance
somewhere in between--it's more like a horseshoe, with the two ends
bent nearly touching.

So I agree that it is "parents who focus on "things" and care about
their social status based on "things" and who treat their children
like "products" who end up caught in the negatives of consumerism",
BUT I would argue that that group includes parents who focus on the
EVILS of "things"--who care about their social status based on NOT
having "things" and who treat their children like "products" in that
a child who likes blinky plastic toys is virtually a failure for the
parent--who are caught up in the negatives of consumerism.

Also, on the Harry Potter parallels, I don't think Ron's attitude
toward things is as simple as "poor people appreciate things". True,
he seems generally pleased with his Christmas and birthday gifts,
but that doesn't stop him from being horrified by his Weasley
sweater (due to the color, not its being handmade) or his godawful
dress robes.

Liz

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
> I still think this anti-stuff attitude is some sort of
puritanical
> thing. I think it is magical thinking that comes from fear -
exactly
> like anti-tv or anti-videogame thinking.

...

> But what I don't see is that parents being GENEROUS with their
> children is what leads to the negative side of consumerism. It is
the
> opposite, it is parents who focus on "things" and care about
their
> social status based on "things" and who treat their children like
> "products" who end up caught in the negatives of consumerism. For
> these people, they never really totally ENJOY the stuff they're
> buying, they buy and buy in order just to HAVE stuff to show off.

Danielle Conger

Pamela Sorooshian wrote:

>
> I still think this anti-stuff attitude is some sort of puritanical
> thing. ****snip****
> I am an economist and I know a lot about the roots of the anti-
> consumerism movement - starting with Karl Marx and Thorstein Veblen,
> etc. I understand all the arguments. I understand conspicuous
> consumption, for example. I understand how people come to associate
> their status in life with what products they buy, what label clothing
> they wear, etc. I GET all that.

Total fyi aside....

It *is* very puritanical, and the same arguments date back to
Elizabethan times at least as the markets became more global and the
Puritan/ Catholic divide in England became greater. The anti-consumerism
rants from then and into the 1600s when the Puritans actually took over
for a while in England and the theaters were shut down and into the
1700s when serious colonial issues were dragged in and into the 1800s
when all the Victorian mores were overlaid onto it, and all the while
women are cast as the worst consumers, so that anti-feminism gets mapped
onto it as well. All incredibly interesting politics. The most
interesting thing to me, however, is how little the arguments themselves
actually change!

--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 5, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:

> It *is* very puritanical, and the same arguments date back to
> Elizabethan times at least as the markets became more global and the
> Puritan/ Catholic divide in England became greater. The anti-
> consumerism
> rants from then and into the 1600s when the Puritans actually took
> over
> for a while in England and the theaters were shut down and into the
> 1700s when serious colonial issues were dragged in and into the 1800s
> when all the Victorian mores were overlaid onto it, and all the while
> women are cast as the worst consumers, so that anti-feminism gets
> mapped
> onto it as well. All incredibly interesting politics. The most
> interesting thing to me, however, is how little the arguments
> themselves
> actually change!

Wow -- cool information. I'd like to learn more - have you got any
reading suggestions?

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

Pamela Sorooshian wrote:

>
> On Jan 5, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
>
> > It *is* very puritanical, and the same arguments date back to
> > Elizabethan times at least as the markets became more global and the
> > Puritan/ Catholic divide in England became greater. The anti-
> > consumerism
> > rants from then and into the 1600s when the Puritans actually took
> > over
> > for a while in England and the theaters were shut down and into the
> > 1700s when serious colonial issues were dragged in and into the 1800s
> > when all the Victorian mores were overlaid onto it, and all the while
> > women are cast as the worst consumers, so that anti-feminism gets
> > mapped
> > onto it as well. All incredibly interesting politics. The most
> > interesting thing to me, however, is how little the arguments
> > themselves
> > actually change!
>
> Wow -- cool information. I'd like to learn more - have you got any
> reading suggestions?

Loads of things I could suggest. Where do you want to start? What's most
interesting to you? Do you like primary or secondary texts?

Gee, I just get all excited when people show interest in my own geeky
pasttimes. *dorky grin*

--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

Pamela Sorooshian

I kind of tend to like secondary sources, first. <g>

And, remember I'm an economist - but haven't really looked at any of
the stuff you brought up at all -- so what I'm interested in is anti-
consumerism rants, I guess. But it ALL sounds really interesting.

-pam

On Jan 5, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Danielle Conger wrote:

>
> Loads of things I could suggest. Where do you want to start? What's
> most
> interesting to you? Do you like primary or secondary texts?
>
> Gee, I just get all excited when people show interest in my own geeky
> pasttimes. *dorky grin*



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: janclan@...

I read the post about renting one of those "bouncy things"...out loud to my 6
and 8 year old sons......Why I'm not sure...I guess I don't like the feelings I
get when spending so much money on our bday parties but i also see the joy in
their eyes too.....but the whole consumerism idea eats at me...anyway, in
immediate response to my read aloud ...my 6 y/o son said " Hey mom, one day can
we rent one of those things for just a regular day and not just on our birthdays
b/c they're SO fun?"

-=-=-=-=-

I've been accused of spending too much money on birthday parties. I'm...well....extravagant...when it comes
to celebrating the birth of my boys. But that's my excuse! I AM THRILLED they were born, and they each
*ONLY* turn four ONCE, ONLY turn nine ONCE, only turn 13 ONCE. *I* only turn 45 ONCE! <G>

We celebrate birthdays here. BIG. We make a big deal of celebrating that we get to have them in our lives.
It IS a big deal!

Each boy is different though---Cameron loved big parties with lots of kids and themes. Duncan prefers a
bigger family-only celebration---like a trip to Busch Gardens or Disney World (he LOVES theme parks!).

It's not hard (for me, anyway) to justify expense for birthdays. I'm just so glad they were born---and I
tell them that too! <g> But I'm also glad they're still around. I would miss them so much if they weren't
here. We have several friends who've lost children tragically. That just makes me want to celebrate my
time with them even more.

Bouncy houses, face paints, balloons, costumes, trips---whatever! It's ONLY once a year, and it's ONLY
for the first years of their lives! It should be something they remember! I'm just delighted they were
born!

~Kelly, party girl----who will also rent a bouncy house just because it's Tuesday! <G>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]